#720 - Whitney Cummings - What Is Wrong With Modern Women?

22:50I'll get there. I think I came off so tough and so hard for so long. I think this kind of just softened me in a way that made men sort of, you know, I spent so much of my career like trying to be one of the guys or kind of try to come off like I wasn't a girl so that they wouldn't, you know, try to flirt with me at work or so that I would get respect or so that I could go on stage and command respect from the audience and not show any vulnerabilities. And I grew up with a mother who, and you know, many people, women of that generation were who was like, I mean, there's no other way to say it. She was a gold digger.

23:23You know, she had to date men for money and it drove me nuts like there were men in the house that were just, you have to wear this. And I would have to go out to dinners with her and like behave so that I wouldn't mess it up for her. And you know, it was kind of very high -stake situation. her appearance was everything. And you know, back then that was your currency. And I just remember going, I'm never going to do this. Like this is, it's disrespectful to myself as disrespect. I just wanted to be self -sufficient kind of before I started dating anybody because I never wanted to be thinking about the amount of money they were making or I never wanted them to have to take care of me.

23:56It was just like too embarrassing, you know. And so I think that I worked so hard to be independent. And that's what I talked about my stand -up. And so I think that by the time I got pregnant and people were kind of like, oh, like, she does have vulnerability. She does have a softness to her. And I think a lot of women right now are afraid to show that side of ourselves, you know? And I think that there's a lot of strength in vulnerability. And there's a lot of strength in showing a soft, quote, feminine side. But right now, I'm trying to like come off so tough. And I'm one of the guys that it's just sort of like, I don't think you realize that that's actually weakening you in a lot of ways.

24:25Why do you think they're trying to do that? Would you think they're trying to get out of it? What do you think's the reason? There's a couple of things. I think for me, I'll be a little bit specific. like, you know, I had a dad that wanted boys. Like, you know, that was for a very young age. I was just kind of, you know, treated like a boy. It was all about how successful I could be at sports. It was all about how good my grades could be. My dad would wake me up at the middle of the night and quiz me on spelling work. You know, it was all about getting achievements. And there was an awkwardness about my femininity.

24:54And then, you know, played sports, was rewarded for being tough, became a, you know, female comic sort of had to neuter myself in a lot of ways. That's my specific thing. But I think that women, I think, I think there's a lot going on, but I think that for me personally, I wanted so badly to just succeed in my career without anyone thinking that I was sleeping around or flirting or using my looks to get ahead. Because the last thing that you would want would be, Oh, she shagged her way to the top of the totem pole. So I just always wanted to be like kind of extra hard and sort of extra bull dykey.

25:32Comcompensatory. He's kind of like, I'm one of the guys so that no one would ever flirt with me. So there would never be rumors around that I was like sleeping my way or getting anything that I didn't deserve. Yeah. You know, so I think I overcompensated a little bit. I think I was scared of, you know, having an invulnerability. So I pretended to be tougher than I was. Yeah. I think there was that. I think you're kind of taught at a young age being a girl's a weakness. It's not a strength That's what I was taught, you know It was like you go on the playground and the boys they let go play and the girls they go be careful You're gonna hurt yourself.

26:01You're gonna rip your tides, you know, that's like pounded into us at a very early age Is you're more delicate? Your weak and I always wanted to like no, I'm not I wanted to help my dad, you know I wanted to get on the ladder and help him fix the roof It was like no, you don't get to do that your brother gets to do that, you know, so I think for me I felt like I had so much to prove you know and And then I think that, you know, just fear and insecurity, you know, and I think that a lot of times when, you know, you, I was very ambitious and I'm very open about that. And I think I thought I had to sort of just come off really tough so that people took me seriously.

26:34Are you seeing a new potential advantage of embodying the vulnerable, the feminine? Is this the new competitive advantage that you think you could get? I think so. I really think it is, you know, I think that, again, this is probably easy for me to me to say because I have accomplished a lot of my goals. There's a strong argument to say that what I did worked, that I could go in a room full of a bunch of executives and there's three men there and two women there. And whatever energy I came in, it didn't threaten the women because I wasn't using flirting or I wasn't using feminine advantages or whatever that would look like.

27:10I always wanted to make sure women liked me, especially in audiences and curating that audience. So it may be it worked. There's an argument to say that it did, and now is the perfect time to kind of be soft and show that side of myself. But I think that I did have to, you know, accrue a certain amount of success in order to give myself permission to be able to be feminine and be soft. Talk to me about that transition, because I don't know, I think, if I was to make a prediction over the next 10 years, I think that we're going to see maybe, I would put a little bit down, that we're going to see a flip and that male body dysmorphia is already on track to overtake female body dysmorphia within about 10 to 15 years.

27:50Fascinating. But I think that the crisis from an identity perspective is going to be on women, not on men. I think we have a crisis of masculinity at the moment, but I think burbling below the surface is going to be a crisis of femininity. I think that... I would like to think that the guys are going to be okay. I can't do as much for the girls, so I'm unable to put my finger on the poles. But I would say that men are maybe going to be much more concerned about appearance and girls are going to be much more concerned about identity. But talk to me about that transition of going from being hard, brash to now having to kind of soften up and allow that.

28:28And because I also, like, I grew up at a home that was very rough. I mean, you're English. I mean, maybe, you know, isn't it kind of... It's taking Zinnab blood. Yeah, right? Like, mockery and sarcasm and... Roasting each other. There was a lot of passive aggressive shit. There was a lot of alcoholism. There was a lot of really deep -seated shame and biting bullshit. So by the time I got out in the world, that's also just kind of like how I thought I had to talk to people. I thought that was normal. And being around male comics all the time, roughs you up a little bit as well. So I had a hard time turning it off in relationships and such.

29:01But I'm sorry, what is the question? Oh, how it's going to... Your transition. Yeah, how did you find... You've had to go from being that person who is playing the masculine role. in some ways, like the masculine feminine role, which is even like, even overtuning your masculinity. And now you're like, okay, and now I've got to like care about this, I've got three weeks to become a fucking mother. You know, it's interesting because it's like my brain gets like a little bit scrambled around this because in terms of masculine qualities and feminine qualities, it's like, it's, I can flate them sometimes because I'm like, a lot of the qualities that I've used thus far that I think see masculine have been like, I've been nurturing, I've just nurtured my career.

29:39You know what I mean? It's like I treated my career, you know, like a child or how I should treat a husband or something. And now I'm kind of, you know, I would nurture other comics. I would nurture the writers that I worked with. You know, I was like, I've always kind of had that, but I never really turned it towards myself or towards a relationship. So now I'm kind of going, I think the main switch for me is that now that I have achieved my goals, I can turn that energy onto a child and a relationship. I was very clear in my 20s that I was not ready to attract the man that I wanted. That if he came along, he would not be, he would not be down.

30:16So I was very much in my 20s. I was like, I need to become the person that I would want the guy that I want to be with that they would actually be interested in. I think that's a pretty noble way to look at developing yourself generally. I've got a friend, David Perrell, who is still, he's been with his Mrs. for girlfriend and for two years or so and he's fucking besotted with it, like absolutely in love with it. And I went to lunch with him when I first moved to Austin about 18 months ago and we sat down and he's super successful and he's got this big online business and he does all this stuff and he's helping people's lives to be better, becoming better writers online.

30:49And he said, not a realized, I spent most of my 30s making myself into the dad that my future kids want. It's like, wow, that's fucking cool. I love that. Even though he didn't have the relationship, he didn't have the kids. Now, I mean, love and that honeymoon period of a relationship will do all manner of crazy things to someone's mindset. So who knows that he's not just in like an oxytocin fever dream. But yeah, he said that and I was like, that's really lovely. And kind of doing the same thing of turning yourself slowly over time into the person that the partner you want to be within future would be attracted to seems like a cool thing.

31:23And it's like the idea that, you know, like I want to have my shit together. I didn't want to be some mess that he had to clean up even though a lot of you guys love a mess. And I get a little frustrated sometimes because there's times where you know the me guys that I'm talking to and they're like, and then my last girlfriend this and I have to get her at she I'm still paying for a therapy and then I'm like, I might not be crazy enough. Like if you need to clean up a mess like I'm not your person, I tried so hard to have my shit together. So the time a man came along, I didn't seem like a hassle or like it didn't feel like I was their daughter or some weird shit.

31:56And you know, but I I do think that like, you know, I had a situation where both my parents were sick. They both had strokes very young. So my entire like late 20s and 30s, they were in beds. And I was like, you know what? Parenting doesn't start when you have a kid. Like you should start parenting your kids when you're in your 20s. Start taking care of yourself so your kids don't have to take care of you when they're in their 20s. So I started thinking like that at a very young age and I started going like, being a wife doesn't start when you meet your guy. Like let me start that now. Let me not have a bunch of like weird X's around.

32:24Let me not have a bunch of like, let me just start taking care of myself. and not having a bunch of messes that they have to clean up and a bunch of weirdo guys that are gonna be, you know, I always like thought that way very early on. There's something I had this conversation with the director of relationship science at hinge, and she wrote a book, really interesting lady. Wow. And she was saying maybe related to that, you know, people find, and you do this with friends too, you meet someone and you're like, oh my God, we've got such a connection, there's such a spark here, But what you don't realize is that person's Sparky with everybody.

32:59It's just called like really, really over tuned charm or charisma. Yeah, but it's usually a red flag. It's a coping mechanism. It could be fucking anything, but it's not you that's special necessarily. That's not to say that Sparky's don't exist. Some people do come together. But a lot of times I'm like, okay, is this person like this with me because of me? Or do they do it to the barista that serves them the coffee and the parking attendant that helps them with their ticket? Like are they just, you know, So, causing this all over the place. Yeah, that's a really interesting one. I mean, that brings up something that really bothers me when I see a line or like, here girls, but like, he loved bomb me and then I didn't hear from it.

33:35It's like, or he just liked you and you got whack and then he stopped, you know, or is it this pathological thing of what you're talking about where someone comes in and tries to like, razzle dazzle people and you know, that's just a thing. Well, there's definitely something alluring about aloofness. Again, just, you know, it doesn't need to be about relationships. friendships. There is something where you're someone that's too keen with anything, like you call them a keynote, it's like, oh, dude, come on, stop texting, stop calling, stop doing whatever. But if it's the right person, is it cringey?

34:07I don't know. What causes two people to become intertwined romantically or socially or whatever, a lot of different ways that can happen. But there's definitely a way that you can make yourself more or less alluring by, you know, not just being present all the fucking time. Yeah. Right. If there's someone coming along, this is definitely something I'd realize since, who do you say, like socially batting above my average over the last few years and constantly being in rooms with people, I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ, like hold it together, hold it together. As that's happened, the best thing that I've learned is just to like leave the room or say goodbye or say fewer things than you think that you need to.

34:48Interesting. And I've definitely noticed that with myself is people's behavior has changed at least a little bit over the last couple of years to me as they now start to see whatever the fuck they think they see, which is to me just still like this weird guy from Britain. But their behavior has changed. And I also noticed that when someone's like, you know, they use brevity and their brief and they, hey man, did you just wanted to say whatever? And then they're off your life, fuck out of the other guy's nice. It's supposed to, it's a little bit. Oh, I wish this podcast existed when I was in my 20s because I was the cringiest.

35:22And you're making me think of some of the most successful people allow others to project onto them. So, just say as little as possible and let people just project on someone, start with the fact that someone already likes you, right? And then it's all downhill from there. The more you try to over talk or over apologize or control them, look at your motives of what you're saying and what you're saying it. Hey, how are you good to see you? If that's just all it is, hey, do you need anything? Then it just turns into being unctuous. Then it just turns into you're trying to make them like you and people feel it.

35:52Like people feel that energy, that desperate predatory energy. And like Paris Hilton fascinates me because she will say as little as possible publicly. And she just allows us to project onto her. She doesn't, Beyonce, never speak. When's, you never hear her speak? She's done a couple interviews. She's done Oprah here and there. She did a documentary, but she says as little as possible. Adam Sandler doesn't do, I mean, Leonardo DiCaprio doesn't do interviews. And as someone that just talks for a living, there's times like, right, we'll try to, you've already kind of said everything you need to say.

36:25Now you're just confusing people, trying to control them, micromanage them, or just fill space because you're nervous. Yeah, that's the space for people to kind of show you who they are or what they are. No matter who it is, right, in the fucking person on the street or the person that's ringing you.

36:45Definitely thinking about... Thinking about what happens when someone tries too hard to be... Not forthcoming, but they're like pliable in a way. And I think this is fundamentally why Simps, A simple behavior amongst men in particular is so, it causes even in men and some women, apart from the women that are benefiting from it. It causes so much sort of aversion and discomfort because there's a sense that if this person is this pliable with this girl, what is there to say that they're not just going to, you know, sneaky fucker syndrome, I think it's referred to in biology where the, it's a slip -streaming effect where like the lesser male will try and do sneaky shit to try and get sexual access to females.

37:39And yeah, there's something about being super, super pliable that makes someone feel unreliable. Like you want to know that your friend, even if they're your best friend, has limits. Yes. Because if they just continue to fold and it's like, okay, so where are you? If I just keep digging and digging and digging, do I hit anything solid or do I just come out the other side of you because you will continue to fold around me. That's not what you want from a friend. That's not what you'd want from a partner. It's not what you'd want from a parent. It's not what you'd want from a member of your community.

38:06You would want someone who is courteous but firm, right? Like here's my boundaries and I'm going to care about you up until the point at which you get to something that appropriates my limit. There was this, I actually learned a lot about my own energy and like probably what I give off on like dates or this or that because sometimes when I try to go like don't try too hard, don't try too hard that's the thing about trying to be soft or whatever. Like, I can't like try to be like, sometimes I'll come up like silly. I'm like, just be who you are. I know I already have like a intense energy about me.

38:42I do actually, if anyone is looking for some kind of way to look in the mirror about your energy, at Quint Therapy is a miracle. And there's ways to do it where you don't have to own a horse. You don't have to. Hang on, hang on. Or just work with prey animals. I'm talking to you. Right. Are you talking to horses? What do you mean? You're not talking to horses. Basically, being around horses are because they're prey animals and they're herd animals. Their only reward is serenity. Any other emotion besides complete serenity boils down to fear. So if you're truly doing equine therapy with a horse that's not been, you know, broken, that doesn't have a bit on or a bridle where it's being forced to be near you, it will choose to be near you only if you're emanating complete serenity and being present in the moment.

39:24So if you're next to a horse and you're like, what, I gotta take a picture because I wanted to, that just boils down to fear to them. So they're just like, I feel fear, is there a, they walk away? Is there a mountain line? Yeah, they start to go like, well, I gotta take it, there's a problem, right? Hang on, so can you go to a ranch that will do therapy with horses? Yes. Is this such a thing as a therapy horse? Yes, absolutely. That's like a fucking, whatever it is, emotional support animal. What was this? My friend, my friend Daniel Slas, Scottish comedian. I love Daniel. He's fucking fantastic.

39:53He's got a bit about all of the different weird animals that he's seen in emotional support peacock and he's got this bit about an Emotional support hamster that this woman uses like a fucking stress ball and then when she kills it she throws it away and takes another one out of a Pucket and starts going so whenever I think about emotional support animals I do this Yeah, so you can do equine therapy with trained horses and it's very simple like literally I mean you can even if you have if there's a ranch near you you can ask to volunteer and go just stand in a stable, in a paddock with a horse.

40:23I know it's, the note sounds crazy. See if the horse wants to be near you. See if the horse wants to gravitate towards your energy. If you're being in the present moment and you're not unctuous in any way, you're not needy in any way, you're not trying to get the horse's attention, you're not trying to get the horse's love. If you're just taking care of yourself, they will move naturally towards you. They don't need anything from you because they're prey animals, they're grazers. They can get grass at any time. Where dogs want to be near you because they're waiting for food, that dogs aren't loyal.

40:50Like, I love them, but they have a vested interest in being near you, right? I'm like, my dog loves me, and then a stranger opens their corridor and my dog jumps inside. I'm like, wait, horses have no need, and no legions to you, right? So, it's an amazing exercise that had really helped me work on my energy, because I'd be like standing next to this horse, standing next to me, they're grazing, everything's good, and I'd be like, okay, well, are they gonna move soon? Because like, I just, what if they notice something different, or what if they, and then the horse starts moving away? And then I start going, oh, it moved away.

41:18I'm such a piece of shit. They move even further. They just want to be as far from you as possible. And then when I start going, okay, well, this isn't going to work. I guess I should just, okay, what should I do later? I guess I need to go home. I need to work out and then all of a sudden the horse is coming back to you. Do you need someone? Or do you get someone when you do equine therapy to help you integrate? Because it's not like the horse is going, hey, hey, chill out. We need to work on you. Hey, lady, chill out a little bit. You need to think less about fucking the house. Great way to see the energy you're giving off.

41:46It's exactly it. I didn't realize that I was giving off a desperate needy energy. That I mean, people are saying, you're like, yeah, we could tell. I'm a comedian for a little bit. Didn't need a horse webbing for that. I'm going on stage for a living and I'm like, love me, love me, like me, like me. It's a very important skill as being an entertainer, as making sure that people on stage like you but as soon as you get off stage, like you can't be bringing that energy. And people, so it's about being self -contained and it's about going like, I'm just going to be in the truth of this present moment with this person instead of trying to control whether they like me or not.

42:21Because when you're trying to make someone like you, it's very repellent. Yeah, and it's interesting that the horse is able to pick up on it. That being said, the mental fucking gymnastics that horse girls will go through to just be able to spend more time on a ranch. It's like my horse is doing - I think you said on the back of a horse. Yeah, my fucking horse is doing therapy with me. So I actually need to go I actually need to go and see my therapist at the moment. I would find I would go to a therapist And just lie to them because I would try to make the therapist like me or try to impress them or try to be their most fucked up Or try to be the most recovered or whatever it was Jimmy car Tell me this thing while I was with him saying the true definition of an entertainer is if you don't like me I don't like me out -sourcing yourself worth to the crowd is comedians desperately want to be loved but entirely on their own terms It's too real, Jimmy.

43:08It's too real. It's way too real. You know, so I think it's like, you know, what you do for a living. We're all, you know, we're reading the comments. We want to make sure the people listening to us like us. We want to be perfect. We want to get it right. But then you go on a date and you're like trying to ace the test and you're just trying to ascertain if we like have good chemistry and we can be, you know, alone together kind of things. So I found that like I had a really hard time ascertaining the kind of energy I was giving off. this person from the other side is just seeing someone performing.

43:34You just performing for me here. And then you perform and then you get them. Yeah. And then they're in love with someone that isn't you. They're in love with the person that's on stage or the equivalent of the stage. And then they go, I love you and you're like, you don't know me. Yeah. You're in love with that version of me. You've never met me yet. And then or one day the jig is up and you're exhausted and then yourself and like, you've never met me yet. It's such an awesome line. That's really, really cool. I did this breath work class in Austin on a Thursday and I went last night and if you've ever, it's not super intense breath work, but it's enough to regulate the nervous system.

44:10And one of the things, if you've never done it for extended half hour plus period of time, it's a little bit like psychedelics. It's a bit more difficult to hold onto control or you just see patterns arise a little bit more easily. And my executive function, that's what you kind of notice as you came in. It's like me partnering around saying, Hey, man, can we just do this and blah blah blah. Like that's always on and I wonder I think this is probably quite a common pattern for the sorts of people that are listening that you can afford to listen to us waffle on, you know, talking about human psychology or whatever.

44:44There's a degree of like wanting to do it right. Am I doing it right? Like is this could I do it bet? How can I optimize this? Am I? I wonder if I breathe a little bit more quickly would it be? If I breathe a little bit more, I hope that the lady that's teaching the class thinks that I'm doing it right. If she comes near with the thing, like that energy of just, it's like an insecurity in some ways. And one of the weird externalities that comes from this is it can be very, very successful. It drives you to be so detail oriented to focus on things to a degree of minutia that gives you an unbelievable competitive advantage.

45:21But the felt sense of that can be you tripping over these tiny tiny little things and permanently being vigilant, right? Like the prey animal thing. You're being vigilant for what's the next thing that needs to be fixed. And the Mandy, the lady that takes the class yesterday, pipes up every so often. It's fucking great. It's like sound healing with breath work and then the final 30 minutes, she just lets you do whatever you want. I pay, I pay someone to watch me nap on a Thursday for a good amount of time. But she said at the very beginning of the class, up halfway through, she said, don't forget you're not fixing a problem.

45:59And I was like, fuck, that's good. Like, you're not trying to fix a problem. You're just doing the thing. I also think that these are survival mechanisms that served us really well. And it helps them in a 12 step program called adult children and alcoholics. is basically if you grew up in an alcoholic home in order for alcoholism to be present, alcohol doesn't have to be present. So if you didn't see drinking, it's fine. If you grew up around any kind of chaos as a child, you became a parent to fight child. So if in any way you had to parent your parents or take care of yourself too young, you know, we're the kids that were so mature for our age and we were the old soul and were the ones that made our own lunch and you know what basically went, I'm on my own here.

46:35These adults are, you know, do not have their shit together. It looks like mature, but what it actually is, is just survival. That's correct. So I grew up now called a comb divorce things are being at the lot of fighting I had to be hyper vigilant it served me really well as a child my mom was going through a bad divorce She you know drank a lot she was you know didn't have the tools we all have that generation didn't have podcasts like this You know they didn't have You know these They didn't have sound bath classes and stuff they were just drinking and white knuckling through it And so anytime I had a need or a want she was very overwhelmed She was crying at a very early age.

47:11It was like don't have any needs. Constantly make sure that you know, you're self -contained self -deprived. Make sure this is okay because if she comes home and sees that this is messed up She's gonna have a coneption and then I'm gonna have to deal with that So it really helps. There's a step in the program that really helps you kind of like Sort of anthropomorphize these voices and be able to do this little exercise Where if you know, I'm in the sound bath class and it's like are you doing it right? And what if the instructor doesn't think you're doing it well enough and they don't think they're good and I'm going I know what that is don't need you right now.

47:40Gonna need you to sit back on the bench. Thank you so much. You helped me out when I was six by bench, you know? So you're kind of able to sort of like personify it in a way. Some people call it their shadow, their inner bully, whatever the fuck you wanna call it. But there's sometimes that I come off stage and it's like that wasn't good enough and did it out. And like thank you. I wanna be better at this location. That is actually when I do need you. So yeah, I get in the fucking game because I'm shooting a special in a week, and let's like crush this, you know, but I don't need it when I'm in meditation class.

48:12So I like have those little exercises I do that help. What are the modalities that have helped you go from where you were in your 20s to someone that feels like they've got the shit sorted now, or at least a little bit close to being sorted? Oh God, a 12 -star program really helped me. I just feel like people, you know, talk about it when it's like AA or NA, when it's like, you know, we're covering - What's NA? NA is narcotics anonymous. Like, I think people really talk about these 12 -step programs when it's recovering from a substance, but when you're in ACA or Alonon, it's more about recovering from the internal drug cabinet, which is cortisol and adrenaline.

48:47So the drama addicts, right? The sort of, you know, if you grew up and now call a comb, you know, you might gravitate towards being in relationships with people that you have to fix or rescue or you're in these toxic addictive relationships that, you know, aren't really good, but you can't really get out and you're finding yourself being the person that's like, I hate drama, but you're always in some kind of drama. You know, so for me, I really had to get a handle on that because I was in relationships with people that I had to rescue. I was dating people I had to fix. I thought I had to take care of everybody.

49:19I was taking care of friends. Like I was just always the crisis person. You know, you feel alive in a time of crisis. That's just our comfort zone. That's really served me in some of my work situations, but not in my personal life. It's a giant waste of time. wasn't taking care of myself, you know, the three M's we call it mothering, micro managing, martering. You know, we're putting everybody else first, putting yourself last, that just came naturally to me. Doing that program really helped me to not have guilt saying no to people, being able to stand up for myself, not doing anything out of obligation, because I was wasting so much time.

49:52Are you finding yourself people pleasing a lot? Yep, and people pleasing we say is a form of assholary because you're doing something out of obligation. You know, like, would if I said to you, like, Hey, we come to my podcast and you really don't have to do it. Don't do me the favor because that's so embarrassing to me. Do you know what I mean? It's like patronizing. It's like, you know, so it's a lot of, it's a lot of people pleasing. You know, they call us the exploding dormats, you know, super nice all the time to everyone. And then one day you just fucking snap and you know, you're actually secretly keeping score, you know, it's like, and you're doing it to make other people like you.

50:24So I had to like, you know, rewire a lot of that shit. I got a lot of it for my mom and like, deprogram what I believe was expected of me. Neil Strauss, guy that wrote the game. Now like fucking re -awakened, you know, totally aligned sort of meditation person, it seems. I saw a tweet from him a couple of weeks ago that said unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments. Jesus Christ. Yep, we said codependence breeds resettments, right? Exactly it. So it's like being in relationships and going like, like little addages, I do well with platitudes. Like they just do complicated brains, I think do really well with little things, you know?

51:08Maxims and aphorisms are a huge way to synthesize down a bigger message into something that you can remember, right? Like here is this very large idea about how the story we tell ourselves largely determines our experience of it, because if you heart rates high after you've done a workout, you feel great, but if your heart rate just randomly was high in traffic, you would go to the hospital and then there's this bit from Marcus Arraileus that says, the whole universe is change and life itself is but what we deem it. Life itself is but what we deem it. I think it's like nine words, the most profound nine words in philosophy.

51:42Life itself is but what we deem it encapsulates all of this big thing. So like I understand the quote porn and that book, cocking people with all of these different references is, I know, maybe it does get tiresome, but for me these are the way markers that remind me, it's like a little mantra. It's like, okay, does my fucking desire for unproven self -esteem again? And I remember Ryan Holiday saying, self -belief is overrated, generate evidence. Fantastic, there we go, I'll just, I know what to do. Yeah, exactly. And it's, I know if you lost in the world's kind of confusing at the moment and people really don't know where to find their meaning from And should I do the career do the mother thing should I rely on a partner?

52:23Can I trust rely on a partner is he or she going to be fucking baking in porn or fucking Kardashians or whatever it might be? So all right, we'll find somewhere firm and firm things can be little philosophies and principles that you're relying on. So yeah, I'm, I'm just a baking and porn. Maybe sure. What's baking mean? I don't know, like just like fucking immersing themselves like oh god I got a got a got a got a got a got a got a got a got a got a got a got a got a got a got a got a got a I think much she was in porn that would also happen. Okay, actually Okay, so you said this a la thing ACA total miracle because it's also free medicine It's totally free working with animals started rescuing dogs fostering dogs I know this is gonna sound like crazy animal lady, but it really helped me because I I realized I had such self -esteem stuff, self -esteem stuff, and I didn't have a dog.

53:14Like I didn't have something that was just giving me unconditional love. You know, and it kind of that really helped me. I had some intimacy stuff and I realized a lot of my toughness had to do with being scared of intimacy, being scared of being loved, maybe being scared of being rejected, or if you actually see me, you're gonna reject me kind of thing. So animals really helped me with that because it gives you, like you just said, the right, a little bit of data. Yeah, like this dog kind of, you know, I kind of had to start there. No matter how much of a piece of shit I might think I am and how much I fear that the world thinks I am my dog's little lips.

53:44I'm doing pretty good. Yeah, this thing that I think is cool. He's alive. He seems to be happy that I'm here. You had this, I heard you say this quote, I think it's to Chris, having a kid, or maybe it was him, having a kid is the opportunity to finally love something that isn't just yourself. I can't wait. The clarity that comes with just even being pregnant right now has been in the emotional maturity that has come with it. I highly recommend being pregnant ladies. It really, well, because you kind of just feel - Pregnancy's a therapy device. That's a fucking whole take. Yeah, well, because it's like, I mean, I spend so much time going like, should I do this?

54:17Do I need to do this? And I think that I've always had this ticking clock on my brain as a performer. It's like, I'm a woman. I'm getting older. Am I going to expire? Or am I just going to get tired? Like, I know I didn't want to, you know, work like an animal forever. I knew that like in my 20s and 30s, I was like, I'm going to grind like an animal. And then I'm going to have a personal life. if I always saw it that way. And maybe that's a little bit like psycho. I mean, in my 20s, I was in a couple relationships that were kind of like two people kind of both trying to avoid intimacy sort of thing, but I wasn't wasting a lot of time dating.

54:47I just, I didn't know what to do with myself in terms of dating. I know that I wasn't ready to be serious with anybody. And I was like, let me just check all these career boxes and then I'll be able to do the personal life thing. I couldn't manage doing both at once. I always remember, I had this thought when I was 16, I mean, I was doing martial arts, I was doing kung fu or something. There was this retreat that we went to. One of the guys that was there was in the army and Mum had beaten it into me from very early age I was going to go to university. First person, I think, first person in my family to go to university, like fucking big extended family, but one of the only few people to go.

55:20She'd always said, you're going to university, you're going to university. But there was this point when we went to this retreat for Kung Fu and this guy was there who was in the army and he was maybe a few years older than me. And he was just explaining about what life was like. And even then, I was 16 before social media, before telephones, before anything, right? I wouldn't be before telephones, before mobile phones. And so, it's significantly less complex world than the one that we find ourselves in now. And the one that many people that are listening might only know. Right. And I remember looking at this guy who was explaining about his experience in the army and thinking, wow, I would love to do that but purely because all of my efforts would be committed to one thing and I would never need to make decisions about life.

56:01And that kind of makes me think about the same energy that's coming from the opportunity to finally love something that isn't yourself. It's like, all I do, keep this thing alive, make it happy. Yep, yep, yep. And really quick, just in terms of the animal thing, I also think that we waste a lot of time trying to, as we say in program, don't try to meet internal needs with external things. whether it's drugs, whether it's alcohol, whether it's people. And for me, I was never a drugs and alcohol person, but I was definitely a people person. If I just have this many friends, if this high status person likes me, maybe I'm worth something.

56:34If this guy is attracted to me, maybe that means that I'm not totally nothing. But having a lot of emotional needs met from animals really did, I think, keep me out of a lot of trouble. And I think we're, I've heard on your show, talking about people not dating as much anymore. I know that's in a lot of ways a bad thing, but when you're in your 20s, like how do you get your emotional needs met? So you're not wasting time and hurting other people and hurting yourself being in relationships you shouldn't be in. And I think I kind of accidentally hacked that. By fostering dogs, I had like all these animals, I was always fostering and I'm like, crazy dog lady, but like at least I didn't have a kid before I was ready.

57:12At least I didn't marry someone I had no business marrying and I feel like that could have happened. Right, so you had your emotional needs met by surrogate children. Yes. Furry, sorry, get children. Yes, but now it's like, I gotta say a lot of the things that I've been working so hard to try to get this clarity of like, am I in this friendship because of obligation? Am I in this friendship because I'm confusing love and pity and then you get pregnant and you're just like, yeah, you're a once a month friend. You're not a once a week friend. You might be like a once a year friend, quite frankly.

57:39Or like, don't need to buy this person a thank you gift because they had, no, I texted thank you. That's enough. You know, there's just sort of a calm. Simplicity. There's a simplicity that comes over you. There is a relief of bondage of self. Like, you know, what we do for a living, there's just kind of this narcissism you can't escape. Of like, I wake up every morning, I'm like, how can I improve myself today? How can I create something today? What do I need to do to stay relevant? You know, just, you know, like, you know what? For today, I'm just gonna eat well. I'm gonna take care of myself.

58:06And then like, really commit to all these routines that I've kind of pretended to commit to for so long. You know, in terms of taking care of myself. For me, I, you know, there's a lot of work about like the inner child and like nurturing your inner now that I have a literal inner child. It's kind of it really is all started to come together. So when I see people who have a kid and then their lives just get amazing, I'm like, oh, I get that because you really start walking the walk. That's so interesting. It's very illuminating to think about, you know, like the forcing function of the kid bringing all of your bullshit to bear.

58:39It's like, look, you can't, you can't be bothering. Again, I heard Chris talk about this when you guys spoke where he said, when his kids were young, his boys would be messaging back and forth in the group chat, did you see that such and such a person did this? And he just didn't even, I'm not even fucking got time to read this. So all of the extraneous bullshit gets filtered. But I wonder whether, and I certainly see this with work. I saw this with uni as well, that the adrenaline of having something very important and time demanding and honored a deadline and dependent on you, whether that be a career or an education or a political ideology that you're fighting for on the internet or whatever it is, it's exhilarating.

59:26It is almost like a surrogate child in a way and you're applying an awful lot of pressure and a lot of attention toward this thing. And there is a sense of like, yes, like I'm bringing something to bear like this is manifesting in the world But it's I know it's like a simulator of what what you're actually working toward, right? And it's also it's like no one if you and my in when I was in my 20s told me like hey money and fame is not gonna do it for you I'd be like fuck you. Yes, it will you know like it everyone's like it's really just about family And you can't take the money with you and you're like okay, I'm poor So I like none of that shit Matt no one wants to hear that shit So that's not what I'm about to say in any capacity, but to me, I kind of go like yes, I've accomplished all of these goals that I had I've had success.

1:00:11I'm financially solvent and you're like and now what? Yeah, and now what okay now am I just I think you've talked about this you have like one person you're doing your career at You know what I mean like I'm doing that I just did a sick special I'm like this was this just for this other female comedian to know that I did another one What is it like pick your enemies? Yeah, well I mean the question of and now what and now what is so fucking interesting like just keep running that keep running that back Right, okay. Well, what are you doing? Okay, well, I'm doing the career thing Okay, and then oh, I'm gonna do this career.

1:00:47I'll get the promotion Okay, and then and then I will be able to afford the house and then and you just keep on running it all the way forward and you go Yeah, there's nothing there's no there there eventually Did it, like, did it, did it work? Did it make your dad dad love you? Like, did it, because I go like, what's the thing I'm going for? Like, okay, both my parents are dead. Try to get their attention that to nowhere. Okay, it didn't unbreak my heart from when I was, you know, 31 and that thing happened. It didn't make me not getting asked to prom go, you know, it's like you're kind of like, didn't do, oh, right.

1:01:16Now what? And I feel like I was working towards all this to be able to go, I need to check all these boxes. So when I have a family, I'm not resentful. and I'm not still running around trying to get these boxes checked because I did watch a mother try to have a career and I was slowing her down. I felt it. I Absolutely felt it. How much of that you know, it's a really lovely narrative that you've got woven together here Which is I did the hard things in my twenties and part of my thirties that enabled me to be a mother now Can you remember how much of that was planned in advance and how much of that is you post -hoc rationalizing it now and being like like, well, this is a cute story that puts a bow on the top of this box.

1:01:56That's very interesting. I mean, I think that I, you know, I think that at the time I presented as one of these women that goes, well, I don't want kids. I always said it. I don't want kids, which is, Dowdoth protests too much, obviously, right? We all become what we hate, whatever. But I definitely presented as, no, I'm not having kids. I'm focusing on my career. Ah, like, I'm never going to, I mean, I had a TV show that was about how I was afraid of commitment and didn't want to get married. You know, this was, I was just broadcasting my damage to everybody in some way, maybe to ask to be healed or, you know, whatever it was or I was, you know, very much, like kind of grew up in public.

1:02:29So I did get a lot of feedback, which was interesting. Like, it's interesting to grow up in front of people and show all your wounds and then have people kind of confront you about them. It was weird. Like, I wanted to get better. I wanted to change. I wanted to grow. But I definitely knew I didn't want to have a family in my 20s. I was like, because I don't want to do what my I've never been to a parent's dead, and I'm too afraid of what's in my brain. I'm too broken, you know, was my narrative. And then by the time my thirties came around, I was like, I got engaged, wasn't quite right. I was really trying, but I just wasn't healed yet.

1:03:00I just wasn't healed yet, and I think that I always had, maybe it was my co -dependence was saving me because I didn't wanna hurt anybody. Like I really don't wanna hurt anyone. I really, when I'm in relationships, and I know it's not. Yeah, that's interesting. You were almost people pleasing the imaginary partner that you hadn't yet met. I don't wanna hurt them. I know that if I try and do this thing and it's not gonna go well, then they'll be sad and if they're sad I'm gonna feel like an absolute fucking piece of shit and I can't fake it. I just I can't I can't lie I mean, I think it's being a terrible fucking liar being a comedian like I see these people that are like if you have 80 % of what you want you should settle for that and I'm like, but then how do you?

1:03:34I'm not gonna lie to this person because then I won't respect them because if they believe the lie then I lose respect for them I'm like you just bought that like I just I guess I might be too much of a romantic which is not how people would see me, but I kind of like really wanted this thing where two people could be totally authentic together. And I wasn't capable of being authentic until fairly recently. There was a guy, a super successful guy who completely stopped doing all online content to switch to a different sort of a business. And I was at a retreat with him a few months ago, maybe four months ago, something like that.

1:04:07And I was talking to him and I was saying, you know, he stopped doing the online content thing because he had a bigger project and a bigger business that he loved and he felt like he was contributing to the world in a bad way through. But another thing that he said to me, which is really fucking stuck with me, was he found himself saying things not only as content, but also to his friends, and to turn the reasons why he stopped being quite so social, he found himself telling people stories in public that he then felt like he needed to live up to in private. So he was weaving, and that was the reason and I asked about the beautiful bow that's upon the box.

1:04:43It's like, this is a nice story, right? But how much of it is just a good thing that not only you can tell yourself, but it sounds great on a podcast. And how much of that is really there? And it's really hard, you know, it's not the sort of thing that you're gonna unpack like that. But that one fucking sentence, I've sat in a jacuzzi with like fucking 16 guys, it's a gays thing ever. But, and he says this thing, and I've been, He's me having like a mini fucking existential crisis is the heavens open. I'm like, wow, that's super profound. I must remember to write that down. And I was telling myself stories and telling stories and public that I had to live up to in private.

1:05:21Okay. Then I'll tell you the ugly parts that don't have the bone necessarily is I do think that, you know, and I sometimes I get a little bit wishy washy about saying things that I feel like only apply to foreign facing people. You know, I'm like, how does this not applicable? But everybody now has social media. everybody now is a public in some kind of way. And there's a sort of microversion of what we do for everybody. And I think that starting a podcast, I, you know, look, I had done a special year, was kind of, you know, what you do is a comedian, you tour around the country, then you start a podcast, and you're kind of broadcasting all of your personal details of your life.

1:05:58You're talking about dating people, you're talking about sexual stuff. And I think it hurt me. I definitely think I had to start really looking at that and just going like, would the guy that I want to be with sign up for this? And me being completely open about all of my sexual conquests in the past and so on and so forth. Which I, which is half the time that we're joking or whatever it is, but I just kind of was like, I don't know if the guy that I want to be would want to be with a public figure. Let me give you this. So one of my smartest friends, Mary Harrington, One person you need to get on your podcast is Louise Perry.

1:06:35So she wrote the case against the sexual revolution. Yes. Mary is like, she's just another version of Louise, basically, from the UK, very smart lady. And she came up with this idea of digital modesty. And digital modesty, she says, that there needs to be boundaries about what people share on the internet. And she's got different ones. She's like a little bit more kind of recluse. And she's a writer rather than a podcast. So I guess that makes a little bit of a difference as well. but she talks about, I'll never post photos of my kids where I live, the places that go to it, like she's got this big list.

1:07:06And it's a set of principles that she doesn't cross. I don't think a partner exists on the internet. Brett Cooper just got engaged from the daily wire. I think the first and last time anyone on the internet is going to see her fiancee future husband. It's like the back of his head in a photo of them getting engaged in Rome or wherever it was. And she came on and she said, I got engaged and it was this thing. she spent maybe four minutes talking about it and then said, and that's the last time that I'm going to talk about my partner. And it was like, he's not on the internet, he doesn't want to be on the internet, and I love him for it.

1:07:37And it's like that digital modesty, but you're totally right as well. You can be a person who is living the most normal, non -public -facing life in the world, but you've got, you know, 2000 followers on Instagram and your friends from school are still keeping up today with what you do via Facebook. Of course. Like, you have these rules too. And in some ways, those people are even more intimate in your lives because they've been a part of it for so long. And they know your cousins and they know where mom and dad live and blah, blah, blah. And it was hard to develop intimacy with people when I have such an intimate relationship with the people that have read my book and listened to my podcast.

1:08:16And then you sit down with someone that you've been with for six months. And they're like, well, I didn't know you struggle with eating stuff. And I'm like, well, I wrote a book at wedding. And you're like, oh, wait a second. like you haven't heard everything that I've said, you know, like, and then it's this weird thing where you're like, you're like, am I attracting people that want to be with someone that's like this and then I have to live up to the person. You also have a degree of, like, narcissism guilt about the presumption that people would have seen the thing that you, it's like what you didn't read my fucking book.

1:08:43But I didn't, but which by the way, thank God you didn't, if you wouldn't be here if you had, but also it's more like, oh, I don't want to make the assumption, and obviously that you didn't, but I also, like we can talk about other things too, and I've already talked about this too much. But then they feel like they're left out of things, they'll be at the airport and someone will be like, I love your book, you've moved me so much when you talk about this. And then they're like, wait a second, when you were engaged and I'm like, well, yeah, I mean, it just hasn't come up. Page 235. And then yeah, totally.

1:09:09And guys are like, why do these strangers know more about you than I do? And I'm like, well, because I don't. I mean, this is why I think for a lot of people, regardless of how big or small the platform is, as soon as you start to broadcast things about yourself on the internet, even to your, you know, thousand, thousand, thousand friends on Instagram, you then create another you out there. There is you. Is this and then there is the you that is the online persona and people will make judgments about that. Tell you who I think is patient fucking zero for what we're talking about fucking what's the name Alex Cooper from Call Her Daddy.

1:09:44Yeah, like yeah, this is a girl who built her platform talking about like the gluck, gluck 7000, how to give a good blowjob on an episode whatever of a podcast. Yeah. And just rolls forward, extoling the virtues of casual sex and no strings attached, attachment and treat them like you don't like him. And this is what I got up to last night and marriage is a con and you don't need to get into relationship and familyhood and you can do the girl boss thing and sisterhood forever. And then for the last three years it's been dating this guy and then like fucking like a transition, just fucking gender reveals herself to be like a fucking matronly, and girls there was rose petals and the proposal was so beautiful and stuff.

1:10:27And I'm like, do you know the wake of the cultural like aftershock that's occurred behind you downstream of all of these girls believing this ideology that you, for a good amount of time, for like two three years one thing. That must of course, I'm sure that in her, she'll be able to feel that discord. It's too easy for me to say she was saying one thing and doing another and fuck her for that because I'm sure that she's struggled internally with that, unless she's complete narcissist. I don't think she is. But there is a bit that goes like, do come on, think about all of the fucking girls that have cast off relationships and done the casual sex thing to allow guys to use and discard them.

1:11:11Yeah. Thinking that that was true feminine liberation. Meanwhile, you were getting ready to get engaged. Right. Right. Right. Right. That is wild. I didn't. It's interesting because, you know, it's someone that in my standup, I talked a lot about that stuff in my 20s, but I'm actually really shy about that stuff. Other like sex otherwise. Like I'm weirdly shy about it. So, you know, I haven't heard all of it. But yeah, I mean, you know, look, Snoop Dogg said you can't make a ho housewife. Maybe you can. I don't know. I don't know, but I definitely do feel like one of the, you know, biggest problems people do now.

1:11:43We were kind of talking about it right as we came in as they over -pathologize themselves and kind of trauma -bond. On the first date, all of a sudden, people are talking about their depression and their anxiety. And this is what happened to me when I was a kid. And my ex -china not means like, why the fuck are you doing this on a first date? Like this is not first, I mean, that's something you share way, way later. And I think people are getting relationship way too soon because they're trauma -bonding too soon, but I do feel like because I tend to kind of overshare for a living on podcasts, that's what we do, you know, to try to help other people.

1:12:10And then I'm like, oh, God, I hope any guy that I could ever date would never listen to any of this. Well, there's something else about that digital modesty side, which is if you're already showing all of you on the internet, where is left to go that has additional intimacy beyond that? But then you just go like, am I changing everything about my career for this one person? and the answer is kind of yes. You're going like, I'm not going to post this video in case this one person I'm interested in might see it, which is a wild sacrifice to me. You know, this might not even work out. But like if he scrolls past this and sees me being like, gluh, gluh, or whatever, I don't know, whatever else he's doing, like I'm going to lose the guy.

1:12:50This is, this would make the kind of guy that I want, probably recoil and flee and go like, no thanks. Yeah, it's, I mean, you know, we were talking, you mentioned before about people pleasing, And what you're basically doing there is saying the words that you think the person wants to hear without thinking the things that justify the thing that you're saying. It's like, I'll say yes to going to the party despite not wanting to go to the party because I want to please the person, even though if they could see that in a texture of my own thoughts, they would be like, they would just feel so patronized and disgusted at the fact that I don't think they're able to take the news.

1:13:26And then also, by the way, like, what do you think they're in a canceled party? the insecure narcissism that I'm a piece of shit in the center of the universe of that, of like, well, if I don't go, they're gonna what? Cancel it, they'll be fine. We obsess about what other people think about us to really realize they're not thinking about us. I think that's the same with people trying to go through breakups in relationships and they're like, how would they ever be able to live without this? You know, I mean, they're entirely, yeah, it's like they're gonna be fine. They may even be better. Yeah, the Hinge Lady wrote a book, they'll be fine.

1:13:57But I do think there is a point where it's like I see people going like well, I'm ready to be serious in a relationship I'm like does your social media reflect that you're ready to be serious relationship? Do your dating apps reflect that you're ready to be in a serious relationship? It's like the idea of like before you're ready to get in something You got to make sure you have made space for it like a lot of people are like Dating a bunch of people casually or they're kind of in something and they're like I want something real It's like you got to really be ready and I had to get to a point where I do like I have to go to delete all these photos for my I have to delete all these videos.

1:14:26Did you go in a cleanse? You sanitized your Instagram? I had to, I mean, look, I had blue hair for like a year. I had blue hair. What happened that? Did you go fucking crazy? What did you do? I guess I counted it. I, okay, so during the pandemic, you know, stand up was the first thing to go. I mean, in California, I don't know when you came, were you in California first? No, no. Or you just went, came to... UK and then back into 2021, I came here. Nice, you came straight here, great. So in California, it was like shut down, right? And so stand up was the first thing to go. And I had just spent so much of my career as like, you know, someone in television and stuff is having to sort of be this person and, you know, you're trying to make this like executive have a crush on you to get this job.

1:15:01I just was like sick of trying to be this perfectly castable person. And then on top of that, you know, and knowing that I had a year off, and then a bunch of my friends started losing their jobs. Hair artists make up artists stuff like that. And then I had one who, you know, was going to have to move back home, lose her health insurance. And I was like, but some of this expensive thing we can do. And she's like, let's dye your hair blow. I'm like fuck it. I'm an entertainer. Why not? You know, I'm not shooting anything right now. I didn't realize that when you have blue hair, everyone thinks you're like a lesbian on ketamine.

1:15:30So it's like, I think that probably set me back in the dating, in the dating book for a while. She's Christ. What, why, why can't you have blue hair? Guys just, they're just like, she's nuts. I have, I think that blue hair, especially like that color of hair is just, it's got bad, bad brand image, you know what I mean? But you know what I mean? a lot of guys started showing up at my house that thought I was some anime. There's like, you were cause playing. There's some, it's a really big fetish in some Twitch communities and people that think we're in a simulation. You should have wanted to low -cut top and start playing League of Legends.

1:16:05That would have been, that was your new career. There's some video game character. That is so funny. That's true. Down your left. It's never happened to me in a podcast, not one time. So, your ringtone? That's well, yes. It's the most like California new AG. I feel like that's like the fucking Binaural Beats is a ringtone. That's like the first ringtone. That's like the one that comes with the phone, I thought. That's crazy. I just got the new phone and I don't know how to use it. But yeah, I did make the mistake. But again, if I wasn't a public figure, I was, didn't put it on social media. Like, you know, probably, oh, she's got blue hair.

1:16:37And I'm like, how many like great guys were like, never mind. You know, so I think it was just about going like, I've spent most of my career trying to appease fans and being entertainer. and I have to just go like, I'm gonna have to take a hit in my career if I really want to have a personal life. Well, I think, you know, for a lot of people again, that aren't necessarily in media or whatever, there is a degree of feeling like you need to live up to whatever expectation it is, the norms of this time, this generation, your parents, your past traumas, the pathos of least resistance, who confused chemical signals of your body, like whatever it is that you're kind of being dragged by at the moment and asking yourself the question, all right, so what's me?

1:17:21Where am I inside of this? What's deeper? If I dig a little bit deeper, do I hit anything solid? Or am I just this concatenation of a bunch of assumptions and projections of my idea of what other people actually want from me? It's like, you just made me realize something which is like I was arrogant. And there is this, I'm just gonna be authentic. And I have blue hair and I do this and I talk about sex. Still performance. And you take me or leave me at it. If you don't like me, you don't fucking get it. And it's like no, the person that would have been attracted to that is not the kind of person I wanna be with either.

1:17:58So I don't wanna gravitate, gravitate, batch and crazy people either. So I can't behave, batch it crazy all the time. you know, and expect to vibrate a person at the frequency of what I want. So it's like a lot of people go like, like this is what I want, my man. And this is what I want, no one. And it's like, well, what are you willing to give up? And I wasn't ready to make that list. I had my list of pros, my list of cons, my list of red flags, my list of green lights, but I didn't have what are you willing to give up? Are you willing to give up those photos that are like silly in your asses out?

1:18:30Are you willing to give up those videos where you're going like, man, making fun of man? Are you willing to not put up that standup clip from when you were 22 about squirting like so what's interesting there is For each culture there's a counter culture, right? So I think that's not far off like Sacrifice culture or something like that. It's realizing that your partner is there are things that you can do that can make your partner more and less happy But there would be a big part of the internet perhaps the like female empowerment, authenticity, boss pitch internet that would say, well, if your partner can't take you as you are, that's their insecurity in their problem.

1:19:07And you go, okay, well, do you agree that there are ways that you can make your partner feel better and worse? Do you think that that's a thing? Yes, there are. On average, do you want to try and do things that make your partner feel better without compromising yourself and becoming totally pliable? Yeah, probably. That would be something. It's like, right, okay. So we are on the same page. It's just a difference of degree, not a difference of kind. So how many things like are you going to go out every single night partying with the girls and never see a partner? Probably not, right? That's not going to be a good relationship and they're going to feel uncomfortable with it.

1:19:36All right, so as soon as we accept that, it's one straight line to there were things that I will put on the internet, the digital modesty thing again. There are things that I will say about myself. There are ways that I will act. There are things I'll say behind their back, you know, to my friends that I will and will not say. You know, there's degrees of confidentiality and openness about what we get up to in the bedroom or about, you know, what his fears are about what she's been doing. Like all of these things are like, I don't know, it seems kind of noble to me to that. I 100 % agree and it's also, there's a difference between, you know, I've spent a lot of time with magical thinking and that's what magical thing is.

1:20:10I'm gonna go out in my girlfriend's three nights a week and if he doesn't accept it, he's, well, then you're gonna get a certain kind of man. I'm at a point again, I have nothing to prove. Like I think for what I say to women is like, get to a place where you have nothing to prove so you can totally submit to your man and it doesn't feel like you're like a bad feminine. There's this thing now where you can't, like if you cook for your man, you're not a good feminist. I'm like you're dealing with knives and fire. It's cool. Being able to feed yourself and your family is like a bad thing now. Like I, you know, I just, I think it's like so noble to be able to go like I can show my love for you by giving up all these other things and I just wanna make you happy.

1:20:47Like it's what I do on stage, it's what I do with crowds. It's like I wanna do it with a man. Is that weak? Is that, I think. investment, right? It's so strange that a woman who would give herself over, and a man that would give themselves over to a corporate employer that doesn't give a fuck about them is somehow seen as being a virtuous, like, self -defining independent person. But someone that does that for a partner that's going to spend the rest of their life with them in genuinely caring, seen as a simp. I had a, I also think that a big mistake women make is like women go to advice about men to their girlfriends, go to advice about men to your guy friends, and also don't go to your single girlfriends for advice about being in relationships.

1:21:29Go to your married friends. Yeah, well, I mean, all of your single friends want to kill a choose -days to keep happening, which means that, you know, even if they're not aware of it, and even if they're fantastic friends, there is a part of them that thinks it's kind of like this idea in the Black pill in -sale world of ascending, and ascending is becoming a viable mate for women, and maybe, maybe even getting it into a relationship. And it's very heavily discouraged because if one of the guys within a group that are supposed to be genetic dead ends that have no hope does do something that creates a pain of, oh well, this could happen to me and as soon as you believe that this could happen to me, maybe the reason it's not happening to you is your fault.

1:22:09Maybe it's not determined already. And it's kind of the same with the singleton thing. Like if you're going to go and ask for advice about intimacy with someone who never really seems to be intimate with anyone, they're going to, first off, not have a particularly fantastic perspective, I don't think, unless they're unbelievably insensitive. But secondly, there's going to be a little bit of a perverse incentive that they don't want their friend to start to pull away from them. Oh, so interesting. I'm going to give you the advice that makes what I'm doing seem like a good idea. And also, keeps you as a compatriot, so that we can both continue to do this together.

1:22:43You know, whether sisterhood, like, you know, girl, you don't need him, et cetera, et cetera. It's like, well, maybe that's true. But like if you are a enabled guy or girl, is it able to get yourself a partner or enable to find friends? Like, no, dude, you don't need that friend anymore. It's like the subtext of that is you can hang out with me. I'm your people. When I was, I don't know, gosh. I was probably my late 20s and I dated a, and I'm only saying what he does for a living because it might make people, like, It'll make you understand why I took it so well. But professional athlete, great at what he does.

1:23:22I just think a lot of times professional athletes, they can't, there's not a lot of room for a motion to be involved. It's either true or it's not true or you're gonna get your neck broken. And he dated a lot of, you know, could date whoever he wanted or sleep with whoever he wanted. And I was just in my arrogance and in my like, you know, we were like arguing about something. And I was like, well, like, why would you date me If like I'm the person you date if you want like a challenge and he just went Why would any man Want a challenge in their relationship? And it was like I was like thank you so much for saying that because I guess I grew up watching parents fights watching Conflict is love conflict is love.

1:24:05I guess that's what I saw. I guess I thought it was sexy I guess I thought men wanted it. Yes Yes, I don't know what I was thinking. And I literally in that moment was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. Like I don't know what I thought it was like hot to you. I thought it was like what guys wanted. I thought it was like feisty. Like, you know, I apologize. Well, especially if you're dating somebody that is high performing in any realm, has goals, you know, if you're working that hard in the office, do you really wanna come home and be like, right, there's that to do list, don't I wonder what fires I need to fight when I step through the front door as well?

1:24:41And now I'm kind of at this point where it's like I'm good at business. I'm really good at what I do I love the idea of being with a man where I can be like how can I help you make your like how can I be your business partner? Like your silent business partner whether it's like I can have dinner waiting for you I can play in the rock Johnson probably needs a second one of those. I mean look I This is so crazy to me. Yeah, they probably I want to do I mean stay to California Woman though she gets half for After 10 years in a day strange if you even with a prenup Oh, that's a good question. I don't know.

1:25:12You'd be surprised how few people I've pre -knaps. I mean, remember. He's got that fucking, whatever it is. What's his, is it rum? An emotional support. Oh, his rum brand. It's like, tequila or rum or something. Something. And I mean, he's, I heard he might warn for office too. I'd vote for him. You know, because that's another thing. It's like, I'm into that ride or die. How can I make your dreams come true? Like that's, I've made my dreams come true. Like it's, I'm into that kink of like, how could I make your dreams come true? Like can I, Being in service is cool, especially if it's, and this is something that we spoke about before as well like Not doing it coming from a place of desperation.

1:25:46I want to make your dreams come true or make your life better because I think it'll make you love me but there's almost something extra sexy or seductive about somebody putting their nature especially their public facing nature to one side in order to do something that seems opposite or different to that privately because it seems like the love that you have for me is causing it's so strong that you're having to overcome something that you do publicly. You know, it's the same reason why the high -powered male lawyer wants to be tied up and spanked by the dominatrix, right? It's the polarity of the life that makes it interesting.

1:26:29And that's the difference between coming at it from a place of desperation and weakness, and it's like, I want to do this because I think it's the only way that you love me. Versus, I am fine on my own and I'm okay with being independent and I have all of this stuff going for me and I still want to, you know, be the homemaker, build a family, do the whatever. And it's the same for the, that's why like the Chad to Dad pipeline is so alluring, I think, to women. It's why so many stories. All of the dark romance novels are about a man who has everything who is completely independent and ruthless and and domineering and prestigious and is softened over time by the right woman because his love for her pulls him in and it's the same as a beautiful friendship story, right?

1:27:13There is a friend who struggles to connect but you see something in them that's amazing and then you become friends together and you do you know the Michelangelo effect? You know what this is? Fucking brilliant. So it's a psychological effect that describes how over time two people often in a relationship will craft each other into the idealized version of what they want. So I make you more like what I want and you make me more like what you want and I am happy to become more like what you want and you are happy. And the reason it's called the Michelangelo effect is you can imagine Michelangelo looking at this huge block of marble and from the outside it's rough hue and but over time he chips away and creates the statue of David.

1:27:52So he sees inside of something which isn't perfect, the perfection that he wants and over of a time is able to craft this thing out of it. This is something that's making me think of, of something I think that actually would be helpful to people. And is I feel like when you're in a relationship with somebody and there's things that you wanna change about the prayer, there's this new thing now where you just can criticize your man or criticize your person or someone comes home and it's like, yeah, so you're just gonna walk in the door and not say hi and da da da. And this is where the, you know, my having more intimacy and relationships with animals than humans actually comes in handy where positive reinforcement is pretty much, I believe the only thing that works.

1:28:29And I think that I'm not seeing it on either side right now with men or women. So if your girl comes home and she's rough or she's going out with her friends too, whatever it is, just experiment with, like, just say, instead of getting in a fight about it, like, just, you know what I love? Like, I love when you come home. I come home and you're here. And you're like on the couch and you're barefoot. It's just the sexiest thing in the world to me when I come home and you're here. You know, and like Kisser on the forehead. and just see if anything changed. Same thing with my girlfriend's, and I just told him that he needs a phone.

1:28:59And I'm like, are you insane? You can't talk to people like that. This isn't like you're not in a fight on the fucking subway. This is your man. Just tell him, you know what, I love it so much when you, I don't like that he wears this thing. When he wears the other thing, just tell him how hot it is and suck his dick. What? Why is this so hard to understand? And you can't wear this fact in crocs around. when he wears the other shoes, just suck his dick and tell him how much you love the shoes. And kiss them and it's over. So I just think that we're not doing enough positive reinforcement. I think maybe it's this perfectionism generation or maybe we're all standing up for ourselves and I'm gonna make a boundary and I'm gonna tell you all the things that I don't like because I'm gonna be authentic and do do do do.

1:29:41Omissions are not lies. I just think that for every criticism we have, it's just like just try positive reinforcement. Try that, you know what I love? I love when your phone is off and I just get to like, We just could just suppose to why do you always have your phone out on the table? It always makes me so annoyed. That's it. Don't even say that one. Just when there's no phone out, take that opportunity to tell him how great it is. Like this to me is about like that's what it means to be soft, I think, to just like bite your tongue, shut your whore mouth. You don't have to just be roasting your man all the time.

1:30:11I mean, I see it and there's certain rules to me that I live by in relationships now. It took me a while to learn, but you never gossip about your man ever, ever. If there's a texting with some other girl, you don't, I'm like, you don't tell any of your girlfriends. You take it to a therapist, you take it to a 12 step meeting. Like, don't ever gossip about your person. Don't ever make fun of your person in public. I see people a lot like that women that don't understand why relationships are working and then you go out on a double date and like, cause you fucking can't get on it. And you're just like, what the fuck are you doing?

1:30:44Like you're embarrassing your man in front of a bunch of people. You know, and so I see this stuff as someone who's a female comic, you would think that, you know, that's, that's not how I am in relationships and the slightest. And I think that we're just like getting a little too comfortable, you know, I did this movie that was about, it was based on a book called The Female Brain, and I met with this female neuroscientist and I said to her, I was just like, what's the main advice you have for me? Like, if I leave here knowing one thing today about the difference between the male and the female brain, and she just went, your girlfriend is not your boyfriend.

1:31:14What did you mean by that? don't treat them the same. So if you want to talk about how ugly the bridesmaids dresses were at Marcy's wedding, call your friend Lydia. Don't call your boyfriend about it. You know, just like be a little more cautious about the stuff that you, because then you come home and you're like, can you believe what happened at work? And this she was wearing this blouse and the guys just like, you know what I mean? They're like, well, you don't listen to me. How come you're not paying attention? You don't want to hear me talk? It's like, this isn't a subject. Dude, you're boring.

1:31:39You're fucking boring, dude. Call your girlfriend. So it's like to me, it's always a big red flag. when girls don't have girlfriends. Cause that means you're gonna have tear all the boring ass shit. So like girls know what to take to your girlfriends and know what to take to your guy friends. All right, to your boyfriend. Yeah. You know, I think that's a really important thing that a lot of girls don't do. They expect their boyfriend to be their girlfriend. You're not gonna come to fucking Nordstrom with me and hold my purse while I change. That's not my guy. You know, and don't make your guy do shit like that.

1:32:08You know, I just, I just think that like, you know, little things like that, I think make a really big difference. And if you are doing that, chances are you might not respect the person and that's not the person for you. And I think people really forget about respect. It's like I'm attracted to him and he's smart and he has this but do you respect him? Because if you're going, I want you to spend your Saturday sitting on a fucking velvet puff at Nordstrom while I try shit on. Unless it's like a fun cakey sex game, that's a different thing, but like that's not respect. You don't respect your man's time.

1:32:31Yeah, that's again the playability thing. And that's why having boundaries is so important. You said this other thing, I listened to you say this other thing. I thought it was so fucking interesting. You said, in order for art to imitate life, you have to have a life. That's it. And this is definitely something that I see in high achievers, high performers, people that are sort of on that grind, where the creativity and the space that they had to be able to think about whatever it is that they're going to do, whether it's business or career moves or writing or an online coaching platform that they're trying to start or content creation or whatever.

1:33:11And after a while, you take up so much of your days doing that thing that the font, like the pool from which you withdraw in order to be able to present shit is just barren. It's dry. That's exactly it. I mean, you see it with comedians all the time. You see this great comedian, amazing observational comedians, they get more and more famous, more and more successful. what all they're doing is touring and then all of a sudden they're only doing jokes about airplanes because they're only on airplanes, you know, or they like have nothing to talk about because they don't do anything. I remember I was in a writers room for a sitcom that I made and I was running three shows at one time, three television shows, which is very, you know, taxing.

1:33:48I was working all weekend, you know, 20 hours a day, not sleeping. And we're in the writers room and I'm like, we need to pitch on like something that the couple does, like on a weekend. And someone was like, oh, what if they like went to a wine tasting? And I was like, no one goes to a wine tasting. And then like, what if she like had to go to a baby shot. I'm like, no, I'm just about baby. And they're like, no, when you don't go to a baby, like you don't have, you know, and I realized like I was limiting myself and how, you know, I'm like, well, what if like they're at work in this happened?

1:34:12Like I could only pitch on workaholism. Like at every character was all of a sudden to workaholic. I, you know, and so to me, it's like, you know, especially being, you know, a standup comedian. I'm like, I got to go out in the world and I got to do things. And that doesn't mean be mercenary when you do because there are times where I'm like, I really have to do something social this week and I'll call friends. And I'm like, like, can you guys make sure I don't turn this dinner into work or turn a hobby into a business? Because that's the other thing. I said, I'll get a hobby and then I'll turn into a business.

1:34:38Spin this thing up and sell it. I'll start knitting and I'm like, oh, this will be good merch. I'm like, no, can't do that. There's an idea I came up with for that called productivity purgatory. So it's when the things that you do for fun and done purely to, like, you go for a walk in nature not because you want to calm down and just have a good time, but because you want to saw an Andrew Heuben and podcasts that says, your productivity increases by 15%. if you spend 20 minutes a day with sunlight in the eyes or whatever, like productivity purgatory, everything that you do is in service of this thing.

1:35:06I literally got the Apple Watch because the phone is just a camera at a certain point. And I would go on these hikes and then I would be like, I gotta do a video about there's a plant and I gotta do a bit with the plant. And I'm like, nope, I gotta just not even bring my phone with me on walks anymore. So I will find a way to make a TikTok or I'll be writing down at the I will slip into that workaholic shit. Or, I mean, just being on a date with a guy and being like, that's not a joke. You're just in the moment and you're not gonna make right a scene, you're not gonna get a movie idea, you're just gonna be in this moment.

1:35:42You know, and I think that for people that do all kinds of things, it's not even just creators. If you're someone that's like building an app or this, you have to go out in the world and see how people behave and see what they do and you gotta like go to the zoo. It's basically, I call it go to the zoo. You gotta go out to a restaurant and see like, okay, I'm building my, my whoop band. Okay, people usually wear it on the left side. You know, you just have to like be in the world. And I didn't, I always thought that socializing, doing things that were fun, were like a waste of time, or that I was falling behind.

1:36:09You know, but now I know that it's like an integral part about being creative and staying relevant. And it's good to have fun every now and then. Like you've earned it. I think that I used to operate from such a place of like guilt and you're such a piece of shit and you're never going to make it. And that served me really well. It just doesn't serve me anymore. Yeah, I've got this idea about fuel that you use, that kind of a fuel, that very anxious, sort of toes down forward thing is potent for probably about five or ten years, but toxic if you use it for much longer than that. I've also big, my new thing is doing nothing.

1:36:44Okay. How are you getting on with doing nothing? It's weird. I mean, a lot of times it's kind of just like sitting outside and just like a typical Look at nature, chilling, but there's just no such thing as doing nothing. Being around horses wouldn't class because that's still doing something. If I'm well, that still counts as doing something, probably a little bit, but doing nothing next to a horse, they really like you. Dr. K. Healthy Gamer. He's a psychiatrist, psychotherapist, Eastern and Western trained, and he helps with young people that have got screen addictions, gaming addictions. He also works with some of the biggest Twitch streamers on the planet, Eastern with every big Twitch streamer, XQC and Charlie from Penguin Zero and all that stuff.

1:37:24And one of his exercises that he gets his like discord group to do is stare at a wall for 30 minutes and some of the things that apparently people break down crying and start screaming at the wall, you're like, dude, it's staring at a wall, I haven't done it. I haven't fucking, I'm dead do. I don't know if I'm going to, it's going to be a total fever dream. I don't know what's going to go on. I, it's tricky because I was almost too embarrassed to say it, but a lot of times I end up crying. If you're just like being alone with yourself because you're like, what's, what am I running from? What feelings am I trying to not feel?

1:37:56What thoughts am I trying to not have? Or what comes up when I stop anesthetizing with busyness, with action, with productivity, right? And it might just be like, that agent that did it, like, it's right there. It's right there. Oh, that person that said that thing or that YouTube comment, it's right there. And to go like, okay, this is stuff, I need to work through this is stuff that I'm carrying, this is stuff that I need to purge, this is something I need to forgive. This is something that I'm trying to get feeling I'm trying to get out of, right? That is haunting me, or it's something that's taking up real estate in my brain that has no business being there, that if I don't feel this feeling, it's just gonna, you know, alkalizing to something unhealthy, anger at someone else or some kind of shame or bullshit.

1:38:47So it's like, I kind of sit there and sometimes have to feel my feelings. And a lot of times it's shame, it's cringe. Why did you say that thing to that person? You know, sometimes it's to forgive myself, whatever it is. But like, you know, there was, I don't know if you ever saw that show cheer on Netflix. No. It's about the best cheerleading, it's such a great documentary. about the best cheerleading team in the country. Naveiro, it's actually in Texas. The coach is incredible. It's so great. It's such an amazing show. It's about, you know, these cheerleaders, they work there. Wasn't the big scandal.

1:39:17There was a scandal. One of the guys sent some texts. He shouldn't have sent and asked for some photos. He shouldn't have asked for. But it's still incredibly inspiring. It will inspire you not to send those DMs. Right. And never, never DM somebody without having seen their drivers. and why am I bringing it up? Why am I bringing it up? Oh, so one of the girls on it, they all got really famous off of it. The show was really big and this girl's just like 18 years old, famous cheerleader, she's getting all these brand deals. She all of a sudden has four million followers from being on this Netflix show, being this athlete and Austin with some friends.

1:39:54And we go see they do this live show and the show came out like a year and a half ago and I asked her, I was like, what are you gonna do this summer? And she was like, oh, I'm gonna take a couple months off just to, you know, process. And I was like, what? She was like, I just need to like process all this. And I was like, I don't get like, I didn't know what she was talking. I was like, oh yeah, I need to schedule time to process things. I've never thought about that before. And it made me start to take time every week to just process what happened. So I, I mean, cooperating in America is taking ages because you guys, this tax system and legal system and every, and got social security number two months ago.

1:40:31Anyway, started working with a, a, a, a county firm. So I've kind of got a part time CFO, part time CFO, fucking all he does his finances. And I was a dinner with him a couple of nights ago. And he said, yeah, every Friday, I just have the entire day to think. Like, yo, you live on Excel. Like what thinking is that? It's just numbers in numbers out. Like I'm doing deals as this person paid their taxes, blah, blah, blah. Like what thinking is there to do? And the accountant guy, head of this accountancy firm is like, yeah, I spend every Friday just thinking. Obviously, that's a luxurious position to be in, but like the rule, I think, is right.

1:41:06I used to do, I used to have this, again, another problem. You guys have a license equivalency between the US and the UK, which means I need to take my theory test, my theory driving test again in Texas, a place that has, by far the worst drivers, I've ever seen in my life, and I've been to Rome, right? So I have to do that again, but I used to love when I was back home. Really, right? Sorry, we don't give half of our money to a queen. Yeah, that's true. Well, she's fighting not anymore. Oh, yes. It's a tough day. Sorry, our leaders aren't born into power. Yeah. If you had a genetic pool about that big roll, we don't have in bread mascots running our country.

1:41:50All right. Okay, there we go. I'm sure you're gonna need to sell some tickets in the UK. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I know. Love you guys.

1:41:59Driving in the car with no musical podcast on what what a fucking like wow.

1:42:07And it's great because you've got the front of you. It's like doing nothing when you're washing the dishes. You front of the brain is nice and nice and occupied and the rest of the brain is just free to do its thing. Really great. I do have a tool that really It really works to me where I schedule worrying about things. Schedule worrying about things. I schedule worrying about things. So it's like, if it's like, I have to make this decision about whether I'm going to do this thing or not. Say the deadline is November 12th. I'll go, okay, November 10th. And I'll put it in my calendar. I'll say 10 a .m.

1:42:35This I'll worry about it. Instead of just constantly perseverating it until about it until then, I will just schedule when I'm going to worry about it. Do you do that with somebody? Do you find it's easiest to worry in with right hand or with a like if I know I need to run something by someone I'll go like hey, like I'm worried with me. Yeah, can you come to worry potty and we go panic together or if I'm like Because it gives me time to also go who are the best people to reach out and ask about this like I feel like It's also your life starts getting better when you know who to ask advice from you know again Go to married people to ask for late advice for you know podcast go to someone who knows what they're talking about So for me, instead of just talking about it to everyone all the time and getting bad advice from people, getting sort of mixed data, just constantly worrying about something, I'll go like, you have two hours to worry about this in three weeks.

1:43:23And then I also will schedule making decisions about things. I get really bad decision fatigue. So it's like we were just talking about making decisions about sponsors and stuff like that. I can go like, okay, I'm going to make this decision on this date at this time. I'm not going to think about it And so that's like, I think a version that works for me of what your CFO kind of did. And I'll put it in my calendar. It's like, and then I can't talk, I'm like, I can't talk for the next hour, I have to think about this thing. Bizzy worrying. Yeah, I'm busy worrying, or I'm busy doing my prone conless, but instead of just constantly worrying about five or six different things all the time, I will schedule it, and that really helps.

1:43:59And then I now schedule processing. Because like, there are times where you look back, I'm like, why did I say yes to that? What was I thinking? Oh, I just automatically said yes. I just went into my default software, where, you know, like, which we do. It's like you move into a new house. Like, you're gonna drive to your old house for the, you feel like a couple of months, just feel like habit. You know, so to me, yes, I have the, if it's not a hell, yes, it's a no. I have like posted notes all over my desk that are like the answer's probably gonna be, but sometimes I'll just fucking say yes and I'm like, why did I do that?

1:44:25Like, and I'll just go through my calendar. That's a big thing is like, I'll sit down and like really get thoughtful about my calendar and be like, I need to cut 30 % of this out. Yeah. Period in the end. Yeah, there's a couple of interesting things that if you find yourself continuing to say yes to stuff and then when it comes around regretting the past version of you that made future you go to this thing when you get asked again ask yourself if this was tomorrow what I say yes because we you know there's this hyperbolic discounting so like you one pound tomorrow is worth 20 pounds in a year's time in the way that we see it.

1:44:59And the same is kind of true with what you're prepared to oblige yourself to go and do. It's like something that you'd say no to tomorrow, you feel a little bit more okay, saying yes to for six months. But I first of all take a good look at yourself and make sure first you're not addicted to dread. Which I think, I believe I was. Right? Number one. And number two, I would go, oh, well, I have nothing that day. Yeah, it's three and a half months away. This is better than nothing. That's what I'm saying about this plan. Oh, okay. I have nothing that day. It's busy in this addiction. But why don't I wanna do nothing?

1:45:37Why am I like, why do I wanna do this thing? Cause otherwise I do nothing. And then, oh God, I'd be alone with one of my thoughts. Let's just fill it with something. You know, like, what are you really saying when you agree to a plan that you don't wanna do? Are they kind of like, ah, about, like I'll do it. Like how little do you respect yourself and how little do you respect your time? You know that you're saying yes to that like I really had to look at that and then I didn't go like well By then and then the lack of faith in yourself like what if I have a person by then What if I'm gonna need to be making dinner for my guy that we're going to the farmers market that day Like I need to hold that day because what I'm saying is my life's not gonna be any better by this day And the best I can do is this fucking thing where I don't even really want to do it like what a what a wildly self -destructive instinct.

1:46:20What a sloppy, you know, death by a thousand cuts of just fill your life until you die. How do you think you're going to get on given that you're going to have to take a pretty big baby hiatus? You know, it seems like the cascade of hormones has manipulated you appropriately. But I said, I feel like I've been like making no sense during this interview. I feel like I've made a... I've, dude, I have really, really, really enjoyed this. I think it... This is like the first time I've been like, I think I have mom brain. Like a couple times we're talking, I'm like, wait, what was the question? Like, I feel like I must sound like a good guy.

1:46:54I've really, really enjoyed this. I think it's very surprising, you know, I've watched it a bit of your stuff, but this is a side of you that I think is, is like really, really useful for people to remember. Actually, really, there are a lot of things that I, that I, and I did not want to come on your podcast and waste your time in your, in your listeners' time. Obviously, I'm like a fan. But there are a lot of things I sound like that I have not said before or even articulated out loud. So I do find myself being like being a little bit wobbly. And just, I'm just, I'm just going to be a therapist.

1:47:20So yeah, take me through. You know, you've got this three weeks pop and then you, for all the busyness and all the rest of it, have you considered what you're going to do when the like work demon arises in the back of your mind? It's like, oh, like, fucking, he's asleep. Like, let's see what emails I can blow blotters to just, how do you think you're gonna... Won't do it. I mean, that's a form of alcoholism, and that's what my parents did to me. And I just won't let it happen. I have basically six months. I'm taking down from touring entirely. And for me, it's actually really helped me to talk to people who have had kids.

1:47:57Again, it's like the be regular and orderly in your personal life, so you can be brave and violent in your professional life. Some of the people I admire the most have kids and they got better creatively. It's not why I'm having them, but I really just stay focused. That's fucking productivity. I know. It's pregnancy purgatory. I was like running out of jokes about being single guys. I'm going to get a new hour out of this. But Donna Glover, for example, I'm sure Donna Glover, brilliant. We used to tour together. And he was always a great standup, was always a great musician. And then one day, he makes it Lanna.

1:48:26I'm watching it Lanna. I'm like, this is one of the best shows I've ever seen. And then he is on Fallen singing Redbone. Someone sends me the link to him. I thought it was Marvin Gaye. I call him, I'm like, dude, what happened? Is this that or all? Like, what are we doing? Oh, I had a kid. And I was like, he was like, it just took my creativity. Is it a performance enhancer that no one ever had? I know exactly. So it's like, he's like, it just took me to another level creatively. So, you know, I was talking to a friend the other day who was like, let it change you. And so to me, it's like, I think my role is to just let it change me and to be the mom that I didn't get to have.

1:49:01and there's all this, I think, sort of healing dynamics around being able to have that redo your childhood. Here's one thing that might resonate with some people. It certainly resonates at least in part with me, which is, let's say that you've gone from a type of person that you weren't so proud of or weren't so happy with. And you've worked quite hard to get yourself to the stage where you are someone that you think is more aligned, existentially, all the rest of it. that you're speaking your locus forward. But when another set of changes comes along, there is maybe even a bit more resistance because now you've got something to lose.

1:49:38Mm -hmm. Previously, you were a piece of shit that didn't understand the world, whereas now, I've already found some degree of safety and security and certainty and understanding in this me. But letting go of this, this, me, to get onto that, this, me, is like, oh my god, that type of evolution is even harder because the bank account isn't empty. That's right. That's right. And I think for me, it's like, I want my kid to be proud for me to be his mom. It's gonna make me cry. And so that's how I think now. And it's kind of cool. And I found myself even in this interview being like, oh, what if your kid watches this one day?

1:50:15It's made me stutter and be a little bit, you know, I'll get used to it. But I like that directive. I like that when your kid is 10, 15, whatever in school. Are they gonna be like, when are you coming, says your mom? Are they gonna be like, when are you coming, says your mom? Like I want the second one. Yeah. So it's, I feel like I've been kind of floating through space for a while. Been like, well, this makes people laugh and this makes people laugh. And like, they bought that and they bought this special. But I'm kind of like, is my 15 year old gonna be proud that I'm his mom? That's fucking cool.

1:50:47That's really helping me make decisions. I am going on tour next week, the first time. Whoa! I know. No, this will be out after the tour. So for people that all pay, thank you for coming. What are the do's and don'ts of surviving on the road? Okay, the do's, the women in the lobby, no lobby. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. That's the red flag. Not the flag, the waiting of lobby. The do's and don'ts, I would say make sure, I mean, I'm gonna get really technical, sorry to, the music that is playing when they're loading in is the show starts as soon as they walk in the theater. You know, the way you want them to feel, the music you're gonna be playing when they come in, or are you playing videos of you, you know, so that when they're coming in, they get to see you doing outtakes, they get to see you doing stuff.

1:51:35They experience starts because they're gonna be, you know, sitting in those seats for 30, 40 minutes before you actually come out there. So that's always something that I feel the need to say because the show starts before you come out at all. I also think being able to move around on stage, like are you doing a handheld? Are you doing like a... Yeah, heads that mic pretty big pretty big stages. So should be able to bounce around less you've done the last square theater in the UK Yes, I have yeah, so I got Saturday Sunday next week and that'll be fun That's incredible. I would go out and do the sound check like you know go out test the lighting see it I mean, I've seen the way that you operate before you go on like you'll be fully prepared But uh easy you're gonna be just like doing it to your charge the audience at all.

1:52:15Yeah, it will be a Q &A at the end So it's 45 minutes interval 45 minutes Q &A. Yeah solo and there's bits and I've been working this out. I haven't really told we announced it and sold the tickets but I haven't really like spoken about this. I've been doing work in progress shows in Austin to the last two months. Oh! East Austin Comedy Club. So I've done like this routine. I've done five times now and we've got rid of stuff and we've written it extra bit. You should have said send me a recording. I want to listen to it. Yeah, I've got it. I've got it. Like that would help me to be able to know.

1:52:46I'll send you the stuff. There's some fucking monster bits in there. There was one bit that everybody else here, the timing of it, I had to get Ryan long to explain the comedic timing of how I could make it work. Really fucking great, but I felt it was complex. I'm sure it'd be like walking the park for you. Okay, so. By the way, if it goes sideways, just go, you know what I'm saying? Then the audience gets to see something goes sideways and that's even cooler, something. That's funny too. What about, here's one question I've got for you. How do you wind down after you've done something emotionally agitating?

1:53:18This would be useful for people that have got a big job interview, but it's also useful for me after I step out on stage in front of we're doing one and a half thousand people in Dubai in two weeks time. So I'm gonna have to buy one to go to bed because I need to be up the next day to get ready for the next thing, right? So how do you get rid of the agitation? This is going to be a hot take. I say enjoy it till you're tired. You know, it's you work so hard. This is shocking to me. It's that I'm like, I'm literally I got the new iPhone. Usually if you just turn the ringer off, it's off. I don't know what's happening.

1:53:53Hour moves. I just go to sleep when I'm tired. I know that's a really hot take. I used to take lunecita and then I would take smoke weed. It's like a sleeping pill. Like an ambient, what am I? Yeah, it's ambient as I can't believe that's your sleep. A lunecita is like a little more. I had my first ambient a couple of weeks ago. How was it? I was on a plane. I asked the first question I asked, is this gonna make me start tweeting racist shit? It's the fact that both of you didn't have the money. Could you imagine, could you imagine if Ambien... You know that I was working on Roséa at the time that that happened?

1:54:20I didn't. But if I'd been Ambien, I 100 % would've been Roséan Bar, your new fucking partnership. Like, let's break the internet with this partnership. Could you imagine that Ambien would just go down as the most legendary fucking brand, like fucking racist tablets? Like... The racist, though. Are you finding yourself being too unbegoted? Take an ambience and a couple of glasses of wine. I'm inviting your tongue. We got you. I want to get fired from that job and don't know how. Ambience. I want to get invited from Christmas with your family. I mean, I took an ambience once and I woke up the next morning and there was a chicken carcass on my dining room.

1:55:04I had eaten an entire rotisserie chicken and no recollection whatsoever. Like I'd cut in my mouth. It's monstrous. That's it's wild. But I would like try to sedate myself and I would kind of like I think something that happens when you get successful As you start trying to get it over with yes, this is what you got here. This is it. You're here really great point You're here you come off stage. It's like Talk to the audience go to the meet and greet like feel it Five you boys. Yeah, because that's a form of gratitude and it's like you know telling I know this is gonna sound like Whatever dumb or Abraham Hicks or the secret or whatever but it's like when you're feeling the feelings, you wanna keep feeling, don't try to stop feeling them.

1:55:43It's like your brain needs to start practicing that elation of like, this is my new normal, is that I just did this amazing thing, and people loved it, and I just, people just paid money to see me talk. Like this is what I've been working towards. And then I see people like, well how do I get to bed? I'm like, do you sleep at home? I do wanna get to bed. Sleep tomorrow. Like you'll sleep when you sleep. You know, I know it's a high -performance, we all have to like sleep eight hours and see the sun at this amount of time, but every now and then you gotta just like celebrate. That's a really, really like fantastic point.

1:56:09There's this I always use this example, but Konno Mkregor fought for the light weight title twice. Maybe it's the featherweight title twice. I think it was featherweight. So the first time he does it, the guy that he's supposed to fight pulls out with an injury and he fights for the interim title against Chad Mendes. It's a way harder fight. You remember he knocks out Aldo in 13 seconds. It's that super famous knockout and it's like everyone loses their show. Yeah, yeah. But the first time is much more of a war against Chad Mendes and there's a lot more pressure and so on and so forth and you know McGregor is also earlier in his career and he hasn't had this first victory at a super high level and he gets interviewed in between the first interim title success and then the subsequent I've like combined title success or whatever against Aldo he's like what are you gonna do differently this time as part of your preparation process and he says this time I'm gonna enjoy it And there's this really famous photo of him standing like that.

1:57:06You've got that tattoo running up the back of his neck. And he stood with his arms out in front of the way in, the ceremonial way in. And it's just this arena of people that's there for him. And he said the first time he did it, he couldn't remember it. Because he was just, you know, looking over the shoulder of the present moment to see what was coming next. And he was like, what the fuck am I doing? Like if I can't stand a decade and a half rolling sequences in some bullshit, Jim and Dublin Island sleeping in the attic of his parents house for that moment. And he's so concerned and fearful about the next thing that's coming that he can't even be there, the place that he meant to get to all along.

1:57:45Yeah, in which, by the way, like when you get there, know you're there, you know, and I'm sure that that part of his brain is why he's who he is and we're both like that, you know, what's next, what's next. But I think celebration is a form of gratitude and it took me so long to be able to just enjoy. This was literally my dream growing up and I'm here and I'm just like, okay, well, does that have a better drill because I need to get to bed because I have to get to the airport tomorrow. So I think it's like every now and then we got to just go like, we did it. Your trains are brain, I think to be in that space more and prepares us for more of that.

1:58:21Because then you're kind of like... But how many situations does this happen? And you spend so long searching on auto trader for the car that you want to buy and you go to the dealership and you test all of the different versions and you realize it's that kind of trim that you want into the Alcantara and not the leather seats and you want to get it with the red trim on the steering wheel not the plane and you want to get to this and then you finally get it and the first thing that you start thinking about is like what's the next thing? You're already this amazing story from Morgan House or Greatwriter, fantastic new book, everyone needs to go and buy it same as ever, it's available now And he told me the story.

1:58:57He'd been planning this holiday with his family for ages. And he's a busy guy and he owns a fund and he does, he's an author and he does all this other stuff. And he finally gets there. And one of the first thoughts he had on the first night is there on the balcony and they planned for ages and the family's there and they've got everyone and it's been for kids and all the rest of the stuff. And one of his first thoughts he stood on the balcony was, wow, it would be so great if we came back next year. like this would be so great if we came back next year. So even during the experience of experiencing, he was already trying to get the anticipation in a go.

1:59:31That's, I have the same exact story. I'm out of hotel at a wedding with my girlfriend Dory. And I was like, this place would be great to like come like spend a weekend. And she was like, that's what we're doing. And I was like, oh, like didn't even dawn on me that I was in that moment. And I think something that, again, little aphorisms, addages, little cute little things help me sometimes, it is my goal in life to not be a sore winner. And I see a lot of sore winners. What's a sore winner? A sore winner is someone who's won. They got everything they wanted. And they're like, all right, we're gonna get back to the hotel and you're like, we're here.

2:00:08Yeah, it's like joyless joy. You won. No one you've won. Even if it's a little micro win, if you just had that great date, and it might not end in marriage, or it, but just like enjoy that with feel those feelings because it teaches your brain to keep feeling those feelings. There's a book called Hard Wiring Happiness by Rick Hanson, which is precisely about that. They, that's the smarter person that'll say it in a more elegant way than I'm trying to say it. The neurons that fight together, why together? Train your brain for happiness because we're kind of like, oh, if I just do this thing, then I'll be happy.

2:00:35And then you do the thing and you're like, well, now I need to do another one to be happy. And it's one too many a million not enough. And you're like, well, that's when the difference between, is it a goal or is it an addiction? Yeah, well, I mean, you know, how many things have you done that you said would make you happy? One of my friends, Alex Homozzi, has this fucking monster quote where he says, you've already achieved the goals you said would make you happy. Get fucked, dude. Get fucked. Say that. Yeah, and now what you're saying is, you know, you said that the next car that you would buy would make you happy in your happiness evaporated.

2:01:09You said that the next house you would buy would make you happy and your happiness evaporated. You said that becoming a moderator on the hustlers university discord would make you happy and your dad took away your credit card, right? Like, I would say like to calm down after your show, like tell everyone at the theater, hey, I'm going to this bar after and like. Chill out. And just get, you might only be able to say for 10 minutes because you're gonna be getting mobbed and it's gonna be chaos, but just like show up and see how much joy. Like to see the people, you know, in person that you're affecting every day, like that's another level of euphoria.

2:01:46One thing that kind of come up a little bit throughout this conversation. Sorry, really quick, I don't wanna interrupt you. People can go, oh, I'm gonna listen to him at the gym and when they get in their cars and book a babysitter and buy tickets and show up, like these are like the fan fans and these are like your family. Like you started a cult, sorry, and you're about to meet your, like that, that's one of the greatest things. It's interesting, so I've got an all -white robe and it's the long wig of hair that I'm going to do. But these are people that have been listening to you talk for four hours a week.

2:02:15Yeah. To do what I mean, but then the ones that show up in person, there's nothing like that feeling when you get to meet them. A couple might try to kill you, but you're very strong, you'll be fine. I didn't want to interrupt you about that. No, no, no, no. One of the things that's come up in throughout this conversation is kind of not feeling feelings or the aversion to emotions arising. Do you know what the Overton window is? It's like the window of acceptable speech. So if you imagine from 0 to 100 all of the things that you could say, right, from the most reprehensible in one way to the most reprehensible in another, then the Overton window kind of describes this interquartile range within that, which is acceptable speech.

2:02:56and if you stray outside of that, then it's unspeakable. So for instance, a singular retard is like right on the phone board. I guess I've just poked you open and went to that. I think I don't know. It depends if you're a comedian. You get to say it all the time. We're a little off, yeah. But you know, that's slowly squeezes in. But I always think about that as like, okay, so not to 100 are from the worst to the best emotions that you can experience. And it feels to me like that interquartile range is getting really, really squeezed because people are able to, you know, sedate themselves from feeling feelings, even through their phone.

2:03:31You know, I've got friends who, if they're having a bad time, their coping strategy is to just open their phone and distract themselves by scrolling. You know, that'll get you away from your feelings and it's strange, you know, the desire or the innate tendency that we have to new to good feelings. It's like, this is just an intense feeling and I don't like it because I am, I spend almost all of my time in this fucking pod bleeping away and Uber Eatsing foods to me, therefore anything of intensity just feels alien. So I'm gonna, I must new to this, I must hide away. I always like to say to myself, never miss the opportunity to feel a feeling that's gonna motivate you to do something great.

2:04:14Like never, never miss out on that feeling. You know, whether it's, you know, something you don't wanna feel like jealousy or hurt or pain or something like that, like those can be transmogrified into great things. Like, I mean, I look at most things I've ever done and they've come from kind of gross feelings of wanting to get out of a feeling or, you know, having gone through pain or having to need to prove someone wrong or try to get someone's attention. Like, you know, to me, I kind of try to look at feelings just as motivation for the most part to make a better choice. So if I'm constantly anesthetizing myself, I'm missing out on that fuel to do something, you know?

2:04:52And so that's how I try to look at it, you know? And then I go like, okay, I want to look at my phone right now and I want to anesthetize and I want to check out even though to me, I mean, it's playing the slot machine. It's really what you're doing. It's gambling addiction at the end of the day, right? You're playing for that one dopamine hit. You got that one time when that one girl made that comment that you liked, you know, whatever. It's all just bullshit, you know, from then on out trying to achieve that same level. I'm dopamine, it seems like. But I go like, is it worth the shame I'm gonna feel in 20 minutes when I have just been on Instagram for 20?

2:05:23You know what I mean? It's just not worth. Like I know how this story ends. So I'm able to kind of walk myself through it and be like, I'd rather feel this feeling of right now than shame in 20 minutes. I've got this bit that appears in the live show where I talk about the story that you tell yourselves about the decisions that you made last for far longer than the impact of the decisions. So you being the sort of person who eats a cookie, like, yeah, there's calories in a cookie and you'll feel nice and then like you might be a bit fat tomorrow or whatever, but the story that you tell yourself about being the sort of person who is already not a cookie eater basically lasts for the rest of your life.

2:05:56That's it. And I don't have willpower and I'm just going to eat the cookie anyway and why, you know, so to me, it's like I can really, you know, and this is something that we, you know, talk about in program is every year that you're in this 12 step program, you get to have a second of pause. you know, so it's sort of like I've been in for, you know, almost 10 years now, so I've 10 seconds of pause before I, you know, I like to respond and not react as the goal, you know, it's like I want to pick up my phone. It's like I have 10 seconds to go like, is this a negative contribution of my future self?

2:06:24Is this, I know how this story ends. Is this really seems like you've done the work? Really, really does seem like you've done the work. Even if inwardly it feels like, you know, just a catastrophe that does not have that shit together. Well, to me, I like to like just say that to people, you know, and just share that on podcasts. So because I think people would probably think, like, oh, look, she's achieved all this stuff. And I like to go like, I've had to struggle with all this stuff, you know, and it just seemed like you've done the work. I've been very, very impressed with you today. Oh gosh.

2:06:49That's so nice. I feel like I've been like sort of rambly and confusing and not being very, very insensitive. Where should people go? They want to check out more of your shit. And you're going to be absent from the road for at least six, one. I am. I have my six special. Just came out. It's on OF TV. OF TV slash Whitney. Totally uncensored and totally free. Why else? What else is happening? Whitney Cummings, my podcast is good for you. That's it. I'm embarrassed to promote myself. I'm not good at it.