#730 - Mike Thurston - The Harsh Reality Of Trying To Improve

26:20Just let him shine. And I'm really good at letting other people shine, but there definitely seems to be, I don't know, there's like, it's good to develop your own opinions around things and to put those forward and to have faith that what you have to say might be a view of interest to be more than that to play with ideas. I wonder what happens, I wonder what people think about this. I've got this idea about this thing, I wonder what people think about that. But I think for a good chunk of time as well, I was just so concerned about putting something forward that made me look stupid. I'm going to put this idea forward and what the live shows.

26:55No, no, no, no, on the show, on the podcast. So going to have some idea, I've got to take on whatever this thing is, like don't comment on things that you know nothing about. But when you're sat with an expert, you always know nothing in comparison with the expert, even if you know almost everything in comparison with a normal person that knows nothing about it, right? So because you're I've made a career out of being the most stupid person in every conversation Do you feel like there's a pressure for you to Improve your knowledge in all these different areas because you've had guests on From every different industry and market.

27:32Yeah, like you feel like fuck I need to learn more about this and more about this and more about this so because being a good host is your ability to just have like good general knowledge about anything. That's true. So I think I wanted to do this as a challenge a year ago. I wanted to do a day of recording where I didn't know anything about the guest. I didn't know who they were. And I would just sit down opposite them. And I had to try and hold a conversation together without like the audience realizing. And me just going like, so you know, what do you think most people get wrong about the world that you come from?

28:08Like what do you say, like trying to sort of work out without actually asking them, so what do you do? I thought that would be kind of fun to do. But I'd consider it. I'd still consider doing it. It's a big long list of things that I want to do. But yeah, I think one of the reasons why I stayed clear of putting my own opinion forward was I didn't want to feel silly. I didn't want to say things. The internet can be a bit of a fucking ruthless place with playing with ideas. And you know, you don't want to, you don't want to look like the idiot in the room. more than you already are. But yeah, I know enough now to be able to hold a conversation with pretty much anybody, especially if it's about them.

28:42We're talking about fitness. We're talking about psychology. We're talking about philosophy. We're talking about politics. We're talking about whatever. I can draw out of pretty much anyone. When it comes to me having my own takes on stuff, I have things that, you know, I've got domains of expertise. You want to talk to me about training, about mental health, about psychology, evolution, like all of these things I've got. But if we start to push out into, How are we gonna fix the problems of the Middle East? Is that bro? Like, that's not my bag. And then working out where the line is between those two, and not just spouting more noise into the world, actually adding some signal, which is useful to people.

29:17That's kind of, that's something that I'm, maybe I should do more, but then another bit of me thinks, well, just bring on the guy that knows and be the person that's able to get the best answer out of them. Yeah, ask the fucking expert. Like, I don't need to go on WebMD and try and self -diagnose, It's like whatever alemen I've got. It's like just get the doctor, the equivalent of the doctor on speak to that person. But there's definitely a bit of me that wants to do, that doesn't just only want to be the person that plays second string to the expert in the room. Like it'd be great to be considered an expert in my own right.

29:52And yeah, it's interesting. Getting past that discomfort or that uncertainty about whether or not you have legitimacy, because everyone else has a million letters after their name, or is a PhD, or is a billionaire or something, and you go, what the fuck, like, why should I, like, I'm just the guy that asks the questions. Speaking of discomfort, what was it like the first time doing the show, like the very first show? The live show? Yeah, you should, yourself. That was nerve -wracking, because for me, yeah, the thought of that is pretty fun, it's scary. I think as well, it's... Q &A is fine. But to go up there by yourself and to talk for an hour or more about something like first I was thinking what the hell would I even talk about what would people even want to know.

30:42I guess I would have to sit down and think about it. I'm sure there is an audience out there that want to hear me talk about something. Dude, I would attend. But yeah, the live shows that I've done I just did wanting to buy and now I fly to Edmonton for 20 hours with James tomorrow morning at 2 am. I'm just gonna suck my soul out with me. He's managed to book us one of those things that's like the side by side seats as well, like with the dividing door, I'm just gonna put the door up and not have to speak to me the entire time. But standing on stage, you know, this is kind of old trope for people that listen to Rogan and they're always on about you work in the material and the crowd energy in the room and the vibe and all this sort of stuff.

31:26But it's wild to stand on stage and just have, you know, ATIs or a thousand eyes or whatever it was in the Dubai show, the other night like, like a thousand people there or whatever, just looking at you. And you can't see the end of the room. It's like it's just endless. And then you look at what Schultz has done. He sold out where the Raptors play in Canada or he just did this place in Australia. Well, it's so far away that they need repeater screens to be able to see the fucking dude that's just this little dot down on that. And he has the pressure of having to say something funny. He's got to be funny.

31:59I mean, nearly every 10, 20 seconds, he has to say something funny. You've got to get a laugh. At least you don't have that pressure. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, so such a good insight that if you're doing anything close to public speaking and you manage to get four zingers in the space of an hour, like you're hilarious. Yeah. And if you're a comedian that doesn't get four zingers in a minute, you're shit. So, yeah, the criteria is very different. But it was very nerve -racking.

32:28The most nerve -racking one that I did was the very first work in progress show in Austin. So I ran this show four times in Austin in front of 40 people at this tiny kind of rundown comedy club, East Austin comedy club. I ran that four times in front of 40 people. But that's kind of even more scary, so you can hear like a cough. You can hear like someone's phone vibrating that pocket, you can hear everything. It's just you in a room. I don't even really need a mic. I could probably just speak in everyone would hear and Before I went on I checked my whoop and you know, it's got the stress monitor.

32:59My stress is at like two point 2 .8 exactly nice good evening workout Chris I was just I was just scared But to be honest man after a while I'd you're so confident in the material Because it's a set right it's not scripted But the ideas I know this idea is interesting and this idea is interesting and this idea makes people laugh and this idea makes people cry and this idea does whatever. And after a while, you just have faith that what you're saying is important. It'd be like me saying to you, like, here's a word forward script that you can say that will make people be interested in what you say in laugh.

33:34Learn it off by heart, go on stage and say it and I can guarantee 100 % that it'll be fine. You wouldn't feel nervous. What you're nervous about is the uncertainty of whether or not you're going to look silly up on stage. And after you've done sufficient iterations of anything, Repsyn. Yeah. It's the same with the show. The only difference is that you don't have the live audience in front of you. Having live audience in front of you and saying a thing and then watching them and being like, please love me. Just at least please don't think that I'm totally terrible. Jimmy Carter told me a true entertainer says, if you don't love me, I don't love me.

34:08And I think that that kind of, I can see how someone whose entire industry is the audience needs to give me adoration. And that's where I get my sense of self -esteem from. Kind of the same, you know, looking at the bodybuilding world, which is ruthless because it's not even an objective metric. It's not, that's 380 kilos, whichever man that weighs 93 kilos picks that up wins. It's like subjective and ephemeral. And you know, it's like he's got better shape or conditioning or proportions or whatever. It's very, very hard, but you're permanently just outsourcing your sense of self worth to these fucking judges Especially if you're competing and it's yeah, it's the judges you need to impress and if for whatever reason they're not impressed Delta out this year or like big thighs are in or whatever.

34:59Yeah, it's crazy Yeah, I it's it's been very interesting It's been the veils of kind of fallen from my eyes a little bit about Seeing super super competent people upon stage because it the infinitely better than I am, but you can just see it's okay, it's just one step after the next. Watching Jimmy Carr in Wembley, he did two hours and 20 minutes of one -liners, it must have been 400 jokes in like two and a bit hours. And I was like, oh my God, and we were with him 30 seconds before he walked out on stage because I was checking my watch going like, you go on stage in 10 minutes, you're honest to, because he might need to do some pre -game ritual or whatever get his head in the game.

35:41He's like, no, no, no, it's fine, stick about, stick about. And then he was like, all right, ready to go boss. And like Jimmy's about to get the fucking headset on or whatever and walk out on stage. And I'm like, should we leave? And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, crack on. I'll see you out there. Unbelievable. Crazy. But you see, you know, anyone's just accumulated those skills over time. And I think it's kind of the same with the first time you did a YouTube video, the first time you did a podcast, the first time you did whatever. There's just this extra degree of, oh, I can see the people watching.

36:08And it's, yeah. The first time I did a podcast that was like, what's it like? Who's your first one? It's Will, Will I'm at the founder of One Straight Into The Defend with a CEO, I've found a billionaire, a billion company crazy. But yeah, it's like the moment you start doing more and more than it just becomes normal. I can imagine like, especially for you doing three a week, you're at what, you're in these 700's now? That's gonna be 720, something like that, yeah. There must be so normal. Yeah, it is. And that's something that's quite bizarre, to do something very alien. I mean, think about this, porn stars.

36:45I would love to ask our friend Lauren, whether or not it's like, whether there's still intimacy in that. Because what you're looking at, a conversation like this, usually very messy, very unstructured, is someone will get up and go and do a thing, people are on their phone, you know, there's like all structural side of things, plus then there's cameras, plus then there's a team of people, plus then it's going out to an audience and there's going to be scrutiny and there's going to be criticism. There's going to be whatever. So it's like something that you're familiar with in an alien environment.

37:16And I wonder whether Pondstars feel the same. Something that you can be quite familiar with, but in an even more alien environment. Like it's this important. I was speaking to Sterling, he's X Pondstar. He was saying that with some actresses, there's just an instant chemistry. You can't really explain, but it's just like a thing. And it just makes things automatically very spicy and flow naturally. Whereas sometimes it's just like, robust. This thing there and it's just very forced. But yet you have to try and force that chemistry. Yeah. Like tell when you watch porn if it's like, if they have a good time or not, how much porn do you watch?

37:55Oh, it's weird. I'm gonna go there. I'm gonna go there. I'm gonna go there. What's porn? Yeah. I'm gonna go there. But yeah, it's weird to think like, can people reintegrate? This is one thing. I've been doing therapy in Austin. This lady's great. This woman that I've been working with. Why is it going to need therapy? I think that everyone does. I genuinely think that everybody would benefit from just - I would love to have, I don't know if it would be therapy or just to speak to an expert on relationships. Because I feel like that is something every day, every year. I'm still learning more about relationships and how do they work?

38:33Are you with the right person? Like what? I'm sure there's a lot of things wrong with me. I don't think I'm an easy person to date, especially with my, my job, the way I look, social media, it's, whoever I'm in a relationship with, they have to be, they go to deal with that. Yeah. They got to deal with the fact that I'll get attention. And you know, probably if I'm with a really hot girl, which I have been in the past, like, they obviously have attention as well. But I'm cool with that. It's a tricky one. And I think I've always been pretty horrendous at communicating. That's just who I am. I keep a lot of my feelings myself and just assume that they know what's going on or that everything's all right.

39:15When in reality, you need to have a pretty hard conversation. Neil Strauss, the guy that wrote the game, who is now kind of this super aligned awakened family man. This fucking awesome quote from him that said, unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments. Jesus Christ, unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments. And when you're talking about that, I will maybe keep my feelings to myself. I won't really mention something that's either bugging me or that I wish that I would bring up, But you get the sense that the other person should know or might know or could know or whatever and after a while You almost to end up building a conversation with yourself about the thing that you never said to the person who didn't know it So yeah, I mean Bill Perkins that wrote die with zero one of the most dialed systems guys that I know Ali Abdahl came out to Fucking wake surfing with us.

40:11Ali had a bad day. It was good at that I think so Connor Cosmic skeptic came out and stood up first try. You said my friend went out e -foiling yesterday over there, stood up within the first session. Ali, I've done not like, I mean, so just insanely smart. And I think he's got, he's got like, I can't remember what he's got. He's got it like some physical sport, but like, it wasn't fucking wake surfing. Anyway, he asked Bill Perkins what's the number one coach that you've got out of everything, the business coaching all the rest of it is like relationship coach. First thing he said, relationship coach, most important.

40:44They check in, I think both partners work separately and then they maybe do couples. I think after... Session is complete. To begin with, in the honeymoon period is fine. You don't need any help. It just runs itself. But the longer the relationship goes on for, like, after a year, after two years, that's when you have to work at it. That's what I've learned. After a two -year relationship, there's things you gotta work on. And there's a lot still which I need to learn. I've had a lot of relationships that have been six months. But it that way. Only moon period and over. This episode is brought to you by Factor.

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42:37Like, I didn't know of him before until it's basically kind of, you see the memes first, you're like, why is there a meme about this guy? And then you go onto the Instagram, you go onto the YouTube and you just see the following and the consistently high views, you're like, what's he doing then? And you watch it, it's just like, pretty normal. There's no fancy edits or anything cinematic. I think the reason why it's works so well is because he's just gotten almost in the opposite direction. Instead of trying too hard with the show and off and the music's the edit. Is that the only edit? No music.

43:22After that first thing, as far as I know, it's just a camera on a tripod. and he's just doing his thing and sharing his thoughts, which is very simple, but after watching it, it makes sense why it works. He has some in a lot of insightful things to say. I think I had this term the other day, growth hacking authenticity. And I think that everybody now is so skeptical of someone that's contriving a version of themselves. If you see someone that looks like they're trying too hard or they're putting on a particular, it's just there's discomfort and ache and, oh, I don't like that. And I think Sam's lack of fancy car, or fancy edit, or fancy thumbnails, or like any of that is just a signal of reliability.

44:20I think that's what people look. I think it's very relatable. If you think about how many men are in a similar situation to him. I remember when I started the YouTube channel, like everything was really basic. I was in, you know, not a very, it was a terrorist house in Newcastle. I was doing my meal prep video in a pretty shabby kitchen. My pots and pans were all completely fucked up. Like there was no lubrication on it. It was just sticking to everything. And I was just doing my meal prep, shopping at Little or Aldi and just taking it to work with me and people love that because so many people could relate to it and I remember the moment I kind of Moved away from that staying in more fancier places when I upgraded to my apartment in London and I left London and came to Dubai It was my audience was divided.

45:05There was half of them who were like really inspired and they were like wow like look What he's done? I want to do this as well. And then there's the other half who were just like I Can't really relate to you anymore like I can't relate to your life I mean make it make no mistake man. If I was to guess The revenue that Sam is making per month, forget his hostile sponsorship and forget the other stuff just from AdSense. I reckon it's at least a quarter of a mill. Yeah, a month. He's banging out a video nearly every day. It's daily videos of half a mill. Yeah, but I probably, it's probably the other mill a month.

45:39There is always trends in the industry. Like something comes along from nowhere and is very popular. But there's very few things that remain that popular over a long period of time. Like will it get to a point where his style of videos are not going to do it for people? Like it gets to a point where it's, I was boring now. Like let me find something, what's the next, that's the trending thing. Yeah. Well there's definitely, for every trend there is a counterculture trend. So I said this before, if you want to predict the future, look at a trend that exists now for which there hasn't yet been the exact opposite.

46:19So for every, let's say, like Mike Thurston well -edited fitness vlog with like cool fucking cinematic lighting and a guy with a gimbal and stuff, there's a Samsung which is kind of the same thing but delivered in a very different sort of a way. Summer 2020, everyone's locked down, no one can go out. Summer 2021, Megan, these stallion just hot girl summer dress yourself up go out you know like have casual sex like be dold and glam summer 2022 is feral girl summer which is be a sloth don't shave don't wash you don't need to be bothered to even leaving the house just eat beans in your pajamas so like you have culture or trend and then counter culture or counter trend and I think that Sam largely is not necessarily probably a worse example to use you.

47:07I don't know who he's quite the antithesis of, but he's definitely counter to much of the fitness industry that is contrived. It's like kind of like the equipment of the pop idol boy band that was like pieced together, you're the cool one and you're the whatever one. It doesn't feel like that. It's just some bloke going about his day. But, and I said this on an episode with Zach and people got mad about it. I still think it's the truth. If Sam wasn't elite level jacked, people wouldn't follow him. I think that what works about Sam. If Sam was some skinny skinny fat guy that wasn't in good condition, wasn't lifting heavy and didn't have really great insight about fitness, he's just some bloke going to the gym.

47:54That's a lot of people. That's so much. That's all S everyone's YouTube. That's every person's YouTube channel. I think that Sam is a likable, relatable guy who happens to be fucking massive. And it's like, oh, like he's me, but better. He's so much of what we have is relatable and is the same. And on top of that, he's, you know, bodybuilder huge. I was like, I look at Seabum as well. Seabum has this huge, huge, like he is the biggest name in bodybuilding now. And I try and think, well, okay, so why is that the case? Obviously, he looks amazing, but he's such a nice humble guy as well, that I can't imagine why anyone would ever have a problem with him.

48:40So you combine that super jacked amazing physique with just being a nice humble guy, and it does, without a doubt, get harder to remain humble when you have that many people who are idolizing you, you have like 21 million people following you to not let that get to your head. Well, there's two ways that it can get to your head. The first one being, your ego is being inflated by everyone thinking that you're great. The second one is you becoming defensive and bitter about all of the people criticizing you. So it works in two different ways. I'm going to become more harsh and more quick to attack because people have done it to me in the past and all of these people are telling me that I'm great and I've got five championships, how the fuck am I not like the best in the world and everyone should listen to me.

49:27Like hard, it's hard to hold on to. Especially if you combine it with like if you're taking some steroids as well, like that can also mess up with your mentality in the way that you're thinking. Yeah. Yeah, I wonder, you know, I was watching a couple of videos from the trend twins as well. and they're like, I find them like a pretty interesting pair. Like they're an interesting pair of dudes, but Sam is just a fucking phenom at the moment. What's his face? Cam Haynes brought him up to Rogen yesterday on his show. If you had this Sam Sulik kid, it's like, there you go. Derek from More Plates More dates did it as well in a little way.

50:02I think he purposefully didn't make his... Yeah, like he could have definitely leveled up with the production. Yep. But is that not? People just wanted that like, relatability, like high level insight, sprinkling of autism. Like that's what they wanted from there. Sometimes I try not to get too heavily influenced because you know, I've had the M .I. and Gadsie on the show. Yes. The production quality on his videos is absolutely like insane. Like, best of the best. And then I'm thinking, fuck, maybe I need to get to that level of production. But I don't need to. I just just focus on what it is that you can say.

50:39To your thing. Because if you go too hard with the production, it gets a bit distracting and maybe again, it becomes unreliable. How do you think about enoughness, you know, the stress and responsibility and paranoia that comes along for the ride with wanting more and success and money can kind of sap the fun out of it? Do you think about enoughness? I think it's harder to fall asleep quicker, that's for sure. Because when I got to bed, I'm just thinking about all the things that I need to do should be doing and haven't done. So that's taken a hit. So I remember in my 20s, I know I've just, I could fall asleep straight away.

51:15Now it's a lot harder. And yeah, I think especially right now, I'm in a position where if I really want to, I can go full steam ahead and really take things to the next level. Like everything is in my I have the team, I'm living here in Dubai, I'm at a point where I have a following, I have some respect. So, let's go fully into this. But then that's going to come at a price. And I know if that's something which I want to do, you know, if you want all the numbers to be increasing, the subscribers increasing, the views, the money, you know, I'm going to have to say goodbye to a couple of things and it's going to be a sacrifice for the The things which I like to do sometimes, that's like to just wake up and do nothing and do my own thing.

52:04Just go for a walk, just chill, take life easy. Like I love nothing more than doing that sometimes, which I had a kind of experience of doing that over the summer, where I wasn't working as much, unless productive, really just enjoying life and what I've achieved through to my labour. But then after a couple of days or weeks of doing that, you just feel like, fuck, I'm kind of amwaisting my potential here and things are starting to go in the reverse direction. and I think that was quite a sort of scary experience for me. I had a big break from doing the podcast. I think I got up to, was it 20 episodes?

52:39You know, I don't think I'd got myself into that 1%, I was just shy and I was like, I'm a guy, I'm a fucking guy. I'm a guy that gave up. And I noticed when I stopped doing the podcast, I said, my team with me, I was in like traveling about a bit. I think that just wasn't for whatever reason, and I'd lost the motivation a little bit. But I just felt like I was doing a disservice to my audience. Like everyone was asking me, it's like, once in an episode, once in an episode, I was just like, I don't know. I just felt like, what a fucking waste I am. Like I have this potential and opportunity to create these amazing conversations with amazing people.

53:18But I'd rather just go to a beach club or go on a date with a girl or just fuck about. But there's a pressure that comes with that. And yeah, I think about enoughness, a good bit. I've got another episode with Holmosey coming up, probably within the next few months. I want to try and really dig into it because I know that he's 99 % of hardworking guy. It's very inspiring to be around, but I wonder how scalable and replicable that is with people who don't have his very particular quirk of mindset. I listen to him and I'm like, I would like a little bit more of his mindset. I want more of that I like to work.

54:00I want to do more work. I want to do less of the fun things that people want to do. But what you do realize, like saying, I want to do less of the fun things. Like why are you doing more of the work? Presumably because the work is fun. So like the more direct route to it is just doing the fun thing. I think if you can find a way that your job is fun, then that helps a lot. Like me and I get you as well, having the opportunity to speak to some amazing people. It's a rewarding job and having a very positive impact on the world. Like, that's, it feels pretty damn good. And it doesn't really feel like work.

54:37It's a pleasure to be able to do this for a living. I think it's absolutely crazy. Like, even this morning, training with Kai Green, like, what, I get to train with some of the best body builds on the planet. Like, it's a fucking dream. Yeah. And I've been able, I've got myself into a position where I can do that. There's definitely a, and again, this, I think, this is for everybody, you have opportunities that are in front of you and if you're even remotely competent at what you do, you will always have more opportunities than time to do them in. Is it your role in life to take every single opportunity that comes your way?

55:08What is life outside of those opportunities? Like how much are you grinding? This is a great quote from Morgan Housel that says, the best measure of wealth is what you have minus us what you want and by this measure some billion as a broke. And it's kind of the same as what do you want from an achievement perspective. You know what's good with me? I feel like a lot of the things I wanted to do, I did in my 20s. Like I really did. There's a list of things that I really did a lot of things I wanted to do. And I think once you've done them, you realize the majority of the time, it's not actually as good as you thought it would be.

55:43You do it and you're like, uh, you know, it was good, but it was a little bit of a, it was a bit of a let down. Like I thought it was going to be better. And once you've kind of checked off more things on the list, you know, you just get like more and more motivated to actually just do this work and be of use. Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely like a bit of fuckery that goes on when you're a kid and you're, you're happy to just bounce around and have fun. But then as you grow up you realize, okay, well, my time's actually fucking limited. Yeah. Like, so what am I here to do? Am I here to work and not leave anything on the table?

56:19Or am I here to find time to... This is still, dude, it must be the most common theme of questions that I've probably asked anybody this year, and it's maybe telling, given how this year's gone, how can you balance being enough whilst wanting to be more, like feeling comfortable and content and your mind is where your feet are in the moment and being able to take pleasure in the things that you do and the successes that you have whilst also knowing that you don't wanna leave anything on the table and you want to try and maximize your time here, your brief period of 80 years on this planet. And it's still, you know, some Harris had this really beautiful idea about the balance of being and becoming that was really lovely.

57:07But tactically, I have to say I'm struggling to still really, really get that balance nailed because so much of what you do when you want to become better, I want to become bigger, I want to become leaner, I want to become richer, I want to move to a better house, I want to move to a better neighborhood, I want to be smarter, I want to be more articulate, whatever, all of those things. As soon as you posit that ideal, you then start to compare yourself to that ideal and you find yourself lacking and in that lack is dissatisfaction that rips you out at the present moment. But the only reason that you're doing that is presumably so that when you get there, you're like, ah, now I can be in a present moment.

57:40But each goal that you hit just pushes another goal. You're like, oh, well, like, yeah, I mean, I've done the 21st episode. So like, now it's, it's got to be 50, right? Like 50th and X -Cole, or hundreds and X -Cole, or it's a million, And I think it's really important to celebrate the wins like to go out and if you do hit a particular milestone, just go out and celebrate it. And then come back and then set a new goal. I think the most difficult thing I've had now, particularly when I go through phases where I'm super motivated and I want to grow, it's like the friendship aspect and the relationship aspect takes a hit.

58:18Like if you're trying to go full -seam ahead with your business and all these opportunities you have in front of you, I've noticed when I've been in a relationship, any spare time I have to devote that to my partner, which then means I have to fuck my friends off. Whereas if, let's say for example, I was single, then that gives me an opportunity to spend more time with my friends. Like to try and juggle everything is really difficult. I think Ryan holidays got a scene, business, family, pick two. You can be a part of the scene, you can be successful in business, you can be great part of your family, but it's really, really, really rough to do all three.

59:00Who do I say that seems to have got it all? I don't know much about Joe's family life, although it seems to have got that pretty dialed. So, you're wrong. Yeah. Yeah. He seems to have certainly got two of them sorted. Imagine, oh, we're in a situation now. We don't even have kids. We're already completely mental, mental, mental, mental. But yeah, I know what you mean. Oliver Berkman has this other idea about choosing advance what you're going to suck at, which is pretty cool. So for a period of time, you're going to work on your business and you're going to grow your net worth or you're going to try and double the revenue of your business.

59:37So you're going to try and get a raise or get a promotion or do whatever that period of life, If just as important as what you're going to do is what you're prepared to sacrifice for it, because if you need to stay late in the office three nights a week for the next six months so that your boss sees the work that you're doing or so that you get more sales in or so that you do whatever it is that you need to do, your training is probably going to take a hit. And when you start to see your condition or your fitness depreciate over time, if you're comfortable and say, oh well, that shouldn't be happening.

1:00:16And then you take your eye off the ball of the thing that was supposed to be your thing for the next six months and then go, I'll only stay late in the office one night a week and I'll get, I'll fit training, I'll slot training in two more nights. Well, that wasn't the plan. The plan was put everything into this one thing, level myself up and then play catch -up with everything else to bring myself back up to baseline. So yeah, choose an advance what you want to suck at is like a really, really good tactic because it helps you when other things start to slip. It stops it feeling like an error or a curse of some kind.

1:00:53And actually, it's like, oh, this is part of the plan. This was actually part of the plan. Part of the plan was, I wouldn't get to see my friends as much. Or my sleep would suffer. Or my fitness would suffer. Or my business would suffer because we just had a kid. Or whatever. Like, I think that's the thing that sucks at a moment. It's not going to suck later on precisely. like you can easily switch out the suck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think like, especially right now, for the next couple of years, next five years, I want to go all in on just, okay, let's try and build a solid business, businesses, whatever it might be, make myself extremely financially comfortable so that later on, you know, when I get to my late 30s, 40s, when it's time to really raise a family, I'm in a very comfortable situation where I can do that and then devote more of my time to raising my kids and being there for my partner.

1:01:41That's the plan that I think I've got as well, that one of my friends, David Paral told me most of my twenties was spent making myself into the dad that my future kids deserve. I really like that idea that you're putting a lot of work in now, which is gratifying in the moment. It would be like way way too full of myself to be like and all of this is for the sacrifice for my future kids. It's like no, it's not like I take lots of pleasure from the things that I do. Matt does fitness does a great job of raising his kids. Does he? He's a very good role model for being a father. Like he's a Chad to dad pipeline.

1:02:15Yeah, he's just he's in a position way. He doesn't have to go to work. He's even built like a home gym at home so we can just spend more time with his family. And like you just you can see how well he's raised his two boys. Like whenever you're around them, they're just like the happiest, most positive, like even comfortable in front of the camera. They're already you'd like really skilled at like those of rather different things because Matt has been there all the time to teach them, educate them and push them. But you've got to have that. It's interesting what you say. I think I always, but the finance thing, I think I always kind of steered clear of commenting on finances largely because I came from such a fucking working class background that money was just never a consideration and it wasn't really that much of a discussion always.

1:03:01So I kind of steered clear of talking about it, but, you know, Tate mentioned it to that until you're financially liberated, you're kind of at the mercy of a lot of things. And financially liberated doesn't mean like compound in Romania. It just means more money than you need to be able to live and not having to compensate by working an insane number of hours that ruins the rest of your life outside of it. You have so much more freedom. Yeah, it is, I mean, it's funny now as you, you, obviously the podcast has grown, you have more staff to take care of. You've got salaries to pay for now, you've got studios to pay for.

1:03:39It's not that you need to earn more money so you can live a better life. It's no, I need to also earn more money so I can take the quality of my production to the next level and ensure that I can keep giving you guys the best so I can fly to the other side of the planet to go and speak to this guy. Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting one, man. I am, I don't know, it's like a, it's been very, a very interesting year, like quite a disquieting year in some ways, like so satisfying, but also just rapid changes in status. This is one of the things about, like, a kid like Sam, who, even more than either of us in terms of the rapidity of his change of status, people say that they want, you know, fame and accolade and wealth, but just having it thrown at you is fucking terrifying.

1:04:27Yeah, I had this idea that I learned from Jimmy Carr. Trajectory is way more important than position. If you're number two in the world, but last year you were number one, that is way worse than sitting at number 150, but being on a huge upward slope from number 312 months ago. There's a few reasons for this. Reconcy bias, if your value is increasing now, that means that you have to be popular at the moment. By looking at recent trajectory, you're selecting for only the people who are trendy right now, which really is all that we can remember. we can also romanticize where someone will be in future if they're currently hot shit, how high might they go?

1:05:00Who knows? Maybe to the top, maybe even beyond the top. Humans struggle to realize that everything is temporary, including growth and decline. Instead, it's easy to label people as heroes and losers based on what we know of them right now, so we don't have to predict a messy future. There's an old saying that there's three types of people on the ladder, one at the bottom, one at the middle, and one at the top, which one is the best to be, the one that's still climbing. This doesn't just work for status, but possessions, achievements, wealth, sex, and everything else. It's not just how we see other people, it's also how we see ourselves.

1:05:29We know when we're moving up or down, when life is getting better or worse. Andrew Tate said, having things isn't fun. Getting things is fun. Another way to look at this is, any accomplishment is just a new, higher bar for you to get over in future. I see this on my own work. Let's say that we do a new episode that hits a million plays in the day. amazing. That's very exciting in a new record. Wow. Also, that means that every video in future has now going to feel unimpressive unless it does 1 .1 million views or higher in 24 hours. In this way, rapid increases in status are more a curse than a blessing.

1:06:02So here's a theory which I co -signed with Dan Bilzerian a few weekends ago so you know it's legit. Even though we might want our goals and accomplishments to arrive immediately, maybe a strata, a smarter strategy is to stretch out the achievements of our dreams. We shouldn't wish for overnight success, as we would then need to be able to beat it pretty soon, less we feel like we're declining. Instead, slow, consistent progress is a more reliable way to maintain satisfaction. Purposefully aiming for slow success strategy may actually ensure you always feel like you're going in the right direction.

1:06:32100%. It's almost like if you were to win the lottery, like if you were to be given 100 ,000 versus is actually working your ass off over time, your salary or however much money you're earning gradually increases and then you get to that point where, okay, now I've got 100 ,000, which one is more satisfying? It's a curse. I think you would look back on it as almost certainly the best and worst day of your life at the same time. You got gifted, unbelievable amount of money or an unbelievable amount of state or so whatever. How are you ever going to have a better day than that day? I always thought that was, oh, it's going to be so cool if I had bought in the lottery.

1:07:10But it would it would literally fuck me up in the worst way. Yeah, I would hate that Yeah, it's weird man. It's weird the way that we play with status and What's the energy that you're trying to prioritize in your life at the moment? Like what is it? What sort of people do you want to round you or sort of vibe are you trying to prioritize? I think People who are going to help inspire me. I think that's what I I struggle with sometimes on a day -to -day basis with being motivated, especially when you've got to the point where you've got everything you really need. I mean, I have a nice car, I have a nice apartment, I've got great friends, like more do I really need in my life.

1:07:54When I spend more time with people who are ahead of me financially, business -wise, whatever it might be, even just being around them gives me, I don't know, it's not. I guess I'm kind of a little bit competitive as well. Like it makes me want to be that I want to get to that level. Feel the fire. Yeah. So it makes me think, okay, there's levels to achieve with this. I'm certainly past the days where I was interested in like the parting and doing that kind of thing. I think when we last spoke, it was already getting to that point. But even now, I compare what my desires were at the start of this year compared to what my desires are now and they've definitely changed for the better.

1:08:37What do you think's caused that to happen?

1:08:42I think just come into the realization of what is really important, knowing that a lot of things which I've wanted to do I've done. And I think I'd put myself in a few situations this summer where I had been at parties, obviously I went to a couple of times, doing the usual debauchery and then just thinking, in fuck, I don't, well, this is, I don't like doing this anymore. I really don't like, I don't get as much enjoyment from it, but I hate the way it makes me feel. I think with what I'm doing now, you know, especially with what we do doing the podcast, being on YouTube, I have to be on it like all the time and actually really enjoy this elevated state which I'm at.

1:09:24Like there isn't no alcohol, there's nothing which is slowing me down. So if you do go out when you drink or you do anything negative for your health or your mindset Just waking up from feeling groggy and shit is like it's horrible I want to wake up every day feeling as good as I can post I feel and you know when you know when you have a really good sleep and you wake up and you're like oh My god, that was a good sleep. You feel like you've taken a friggin limitless pill at the I want that every day Yeah, that's um I know I'm not in my Gadsies, a big fan of monk mode, but it's one of the most addicting parts of monk mode that nothing ever knocks you off that routine.

1:10:04You're permanently in this like, hematically sealed box, right? Nothing is coming in, nothing is nudging it, nothing is breaking it, just perfect routine at all times, and all you're optimized for is that. And it can be very, very addicting. It's even one thing which I love to do, I used to travel loads, but now I'm actually, I don't want to travel because it's, I know it's going to knock me off this Very good routine, which I have gone on. That's something that's cool that I kind of wish I could gift more people. If I could gift them a pursuit that they're needing maximum sort of cognitive horsepower and they can do it sufficiently frequently that they notice the fluctuations between themselves.

1:10:46The last couple of days my sleep's just been so wrecked since I've been here. I don't know how you do it with your own traveling, you do. Yeah, it's not been easy. Most of the travel went inside the US, it's fine, but the one that we did here was pretty brutal. And last night we were at dinner and I was trying to think of this word, I was trying to think of this word, I was trying to think of this word, and it wasn't there. I just know that it's because I'm under -slaped. But being able to play with that tolerance, I guess I can athlete, right? You know the speed that you're usually able to run out or cut out or jump out or lift or whatever, and you go, this isn't there today, why is that not there?

1:11:20And then you start to investigate a little bit. But it's so cool. and knowing the contributing factors to that and then having a pursuit that allows to act as a barometer for it is brilliant because you go, okay, well, this is my reinforcement mechanism for me focusing on making myself better because I can feel when I make myself better and I can feel when I make myself worse. And it's way easier to make myself even a tiny bit worse than it is to make myself even less of a bit better. So yeah, I think focusing on those, focusing on like things that are going to help you be better long -term is what locks you off your good routine apart from travel?

1:12:00Sleep is the main one. It's the biggest determinant of how I perform on the podcast. If I haven't slept well, if I haven't trained consistently, have you ever needed to counsel? Because you're never never never never. Even at my worst, I'm still I'm still pretty good. So I'm fine to I'm fine to take over and hold it together, but I'll know yeah because I'll know what I could have said Yeah, that feeling of regret afterwards you like a little bit It's it's usually during I don't have that much regret once I've once we finished I'm like I can't go back and redo it, but while it's happening I find myself chastising myself about Lex is spoken about this you'll say a word Improciestly or you'll say a sentence that could have been nicer could have been more lean and as you're saying it you'll think that was fucking shit.

1:12:43Like I must do better. But yeah, sleep is a big one. Sugar is a huge one for me. If I've had, I don't know why I would do this, I wouldn't do this. But if I went and had a massive almond quasson and a hot chocolate or something before I went to go and record, like inflamed and sluggish and stuff, awful. But what I found I operate really well on is meat and fat and a little bit of fruit on the morning. And I can pretty much eat as much of that as I want. And I don't ever feel a crash off the other side of it. So most mornings it's like, the fast did could be a bit risky. It is because you risk falling off a cliff and you don't have any energy.

1:13:21So I've found for me, turn of scramble, like, four scramble eggs, some bacon, you know, like maybe some sourdough toast, usually not, and then nice bowl of fruit or something mixed berries or something like that. And that, if I have that at 9 a .m., that can carry me through till 3 p .m. easily just off the back of that and then a little bit of caffeine and some other stuff will take me over. But yeah man, sleep, sugar, both of those are absolutely ruined in your way that your mouth works. What's going on next? What can people expect from you over the next couple of... Oh you've got new t -shirts which you've got on.

1:13:55Oh yeah. Are you wearing one? No, no, no. Because the only ones that you were able to give me was... One sticky. ...infested with your musk. Yeah, new products coming out with the clothing side of things. It's an interesting journey with that obviously you will be aware like releasing a physical product I'm gonna keep trying to scale that I've got a course coming out mid December fitness It's gonna be more so with social media how to build so Predominantly a YouTube platform, but how to monetize it? So how to get to the point where within six months you can make ten thousand pound a month of it That is the it's gonna.

1:14:35That's the blueprint And yeah, just keep cracking on with the podcast. I feel as though it's doing well. I'm already doing more than week. And I feel like, hey, imagine what you could achieve if you did two week. Like it would just grow twice as fast. Yeah, well, I mean, and then I have my main channel, which is while you're trying to kind of water that as well. Yes. I'm trying to figure out what is the optimal way to do everything so that everything kind of grows together. I think you should do a newsletter. I think I told you this last time. Yeah. But I think, you know, what you have felt as an enjoyment from doing the podcast and having these conversations, doing the same thing for writing, even if you're not a writer, which I wasn't before I started, and now 200, 1000 word blog posts in, like 200 ,000 words over whatever for you.

1:15:26Which you write yourself. Yeah, every single week. And it's one of the most fun things that I do over a weekend, I think. What the fuck did I learn this week? There's 500 words, and then who's coming up? And then give me some, I'm always looking out for facts. It's the same reason why doing a gratitude journal is good, because you know that at the end of the day, you need to find something to be fucking grateful about. So during the day, you're always scouring for things to do it. But I highly, highly recommend and use that. Apart from the fact that it's amazing as a marketing tool, it's genuinely enjoyable.

1:15:59And I really, really think that it brings value to people in a way that even YouTube and podcasting can't. It's so lean and it really acts almost like a public journal for you. Obviously you get to choose the level of openness of vulnerability, transparency about your own life. But yeah, I'd subscribe the fuck out of that. So dude, I'm excited. I'm excited to see what we get up to over the next year. When's the book coming out? Oh God. Should be started 2025 if everything goes well. But so another year, another year and a bit. So six months to write six months to publish is interesting the way that it works But it's the publishing thing is is just such a big slow behemoth to spin up But yeah, should hopefully be done by then that being said I haven't really thought beyond this tour.

1:16:45I get myself back to Austin on the 11th of December and that's like Get up to that point and then limp limp to the UK for Christmas and then just sleep at mum and dad's for I'm looking forward to that. There'll be at least a week period where I kind of have just trying to forget about everything and just being the present, especially with family. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, I appreciate you. Thank you for coming on again. Thank you, bro. Pleasure's always.