#737 - Dr Karan Rajan - Debunking The Internet’s Biggest Health Myths

27:09And there's a, I would say kind of an electric feeling to my body that's sort of anxious in some regards maybe. Yeah, I think, you know, whenever I've experienced that if I've overregged the nap or underregged the nap, it's that sleep inertia feeling where perhaps you've gone into to too deep a sleep cycle or a sleep phase. And when you wake up, you're dredging yourself from the depths of a deeper sleep cycle. So there's not that gradual gentle awakening that you'd have if you naturally woke up. And that sleep inertia where there's still some sleep hormone to percolating, slightly stressy anxiety really could have emotion.

27:50What's your protocol for naps? All that I know is once you push it past, oh, supposedly once you push it past about 20 to 25 minutes, you're really getting into, this is actually sleep and not a nap. And if you're going to do that, if you can try and hit 90 so that you can get yourself into and back out of a phase, have I missed anything there? No, that's absolutely spot on. I mean, if I nap on a weekend, for example, that's the main time I have to nap. 90 minutes would be my go to, because I want something that's substantial enough that would help me consolidate my memory, make me feel refreshed at the end of it.

28:27And I find it's easier to stick to 90 minutes than go in and out of 20 minutes because for me, my sleep induction time is longer. If I told myself I was going to nap for 20 minutes, it would take me too long to actually get into the nap first of all. So 90 minutes is breathable for me. Yeah, my sleep latency has been all over the place this year. I don't know what what it is. I think a lot of people feel this as well, you know, if you're busy during the day and even if you try and do the digital detox thing, that 321 rule, I think it's really nice. Actually, if you're familiar with that, 321, is that the three hours before bed, two hours before bed, yeah?

29:03Yeah. So three hours before bed, stop eating, two hours before bed, stop drinking one hour before bed, stop using screens, which is funny that screens have been placed in with food and hydration as like, you know, the mandatory bottom of Masa's hierarchy of needs that people have. I think that's been really great. And it's so funny, like, I know that memeing healthcare stuff is kind of a bit cheesy. And it's almost a little bit juvenile and simplifying things down. But that's what helps people retain principles. So, yeah, three, two, one rule. I would maybe sometimes if you're really struggling with sleep at a 10 before the three, two, one, for the coffee, because the half life of coffee is upwards of eight hours.

29:48So if you were a habitual coffee drinker, you know, you were having cups of coffee at 2 3 pm and your bedtime is 11 pm, there's still likely to be a decent percentage and concentration of coffee in your bloodstream when you're going to bed which is going to dysregulate your sleep. I'm a fast caffeine metabolizer that came out from some of the tests that I did. Interesting. I get stealth caffeine done an evening time by ordering a diet coke and forgetting and someone will bring a diet coke over and I think it's only maybe 45 migs of caffeine so it's not very much but if you knock two of those back that's you know not far off an espresso and you think it's like 7 pm at night and I've just done that but yeah I can feel it man and here's another thing right is there any evidence between phases of the moon and quality of sleep?

30:37I think the evidence there for that, that's published that I've not seen any evidence linking the tube, but certainly if there are times when the moon is more luminous and brighter than usual and you don't have blackout curtains and the moon is shining through your window. So there's enough light getting into your room that's affecting your sleep potentially. you could see mechanistically where there could be a way that that would affect your sleep. But if you're in a blackout room, you got blackout curtains, which, you know, I certainly do. I'm not influenced by these external light sources. So you would think the same thing.

31:20And yet, there's been a few times where everything is normal, routine is as normal. And I can't get to sleep until three or three thirty in the morning. And there was a day when we were all in Dubai, everybody's sleep was wrecked. people that we've been with, people that we hadn't been with, people who'd gone to bed at eight o 'clock, people who'd gone to bed at two in the morning, everyone was fucked. And sure enough, full moon. So I'm non -conspiratorial when it comes to the horoscopes thing, but I reckon there's, I think there might be something there. One other thing, I was having a conversation with a friend this weekend who's a DJ and we were talking about hearing and improving and protecting your hearing.

31:58Is there anything that people should be aware of when it comes to that? Yeah, the hair cells which help us transduce sound and then basically translate the sound waves into electrical signals which are brain and interprets as sound, those are directed by the hair cells in our ears. And we've got about 16 ,000 hair cells. You are born with all the hair cells you'll ever have once you destroy them. That is it. And they detect various frequencies. So, you know that feeling where you go to, I don't know, a cricket match or a tennis match or a concert or a very busy place where there's this constant hum and then you go somewhere quiet and there's that ringing feeling in your ears.

32:41That is your hair cells being bent by the sounds and they are kind of unbending. That is that sound and that's the process you were experiencing. And if you party hard for long enough, you know, night clubs and loud music all the time You're in a band, you're singing, you're going to concerts, you can long -term damage those hair cells or those old rockers of the 60s, 70s and 80s, they've got a lot of hearing impairments. Like Ozzy Osborne is essentially deaf because he never wore those earplugs that would protect his hearing and that is the risk with these hair cells where unexpected sources can damage those.

33:22And once they're gone, there is no reprieve at all. That's wild. Yeah, my old business partner, my former business partner, Dave, had a hearing assessment done. And I think he'd lost 15 dB off the bottom end and 10 dB off the top end. So he'd really damaged his hearing from, you know, he'd stood inside or outside nightclubs for a decade and a half and he's still going. and none of us had nicely molded earplugs that would not be a fuck on to take out when we went outside and whatever. And now you can get custom molded ones with a tiny little filter. It's like a weeny little straw that filters through so that it means that if you do go outside to go and speak to people, you can still quite easily hear what they're saying without it sounding like you're underwater.

34:09But yeah, yeah, I do. I mean, thinking back to my nightlife career and some of the soundboots that we used to be in, and DJs would just want more monitors. They want to hear with full richness, what's happening out in the club, and also their partying, their with their boys, or they've got like chicks in the booth of them. And they don't want it to be, well, why can't we hear the music out there? Why is it only coming through your headphones? Oh, don't worry about that. I'm actually protecting your hearing. Like, that's not a big rock -star thing to say. Exactly. What was that thing about plucking your nose, hair's speaking of hairs inside your head?

34:46Yeah, so when you you've got different types of nose hairs You've got the deeper longer vibrancy And you've got other types of nose hairs and they do a lot of jobs and the main jobs of the nose hairs Apart from looking out of place is that they actually filter Microbes dust particles and potentially infectious causing agents getting into your delicate moist inner linings your airways and When you pluck those you obviously increase the risk of things getting in and you're removing that filter system that's there, but actually you can increase the risk of micro abrasions every time you pluck something.

35:26Just like when you pluck a hair on your hand or somewhere else, you create a small opening and micro abrasion or a micro cut through which things can creep in bacteria from your skin. You know, staph of a cockous species from your skin can creep inside the bloodstream. And that region of your face, the triangle on your face, from the bridge of your nose to the tip of your top lip and a triangle which forms there. That's actually known as the danger triangle where there's a very close association between the drainage, the venous, the vein drainage to your brain and the nose as well. And there's something known as the cavernous sinus.

36:03And if you get a bloodstream infection in the cavernous sinus, that can lead to all sorts of very horrible things like many gaiters, clots and in rare cases death, although that is quite rare. I mean, the average person plucking their nose is not going to die, but it's not a zero percent chance of that happening. I was in Dubai to do that live show a couple of weeks ago and I needed a haircut. So I spoke to one of my friends, George, who lives out there and I said, who usually does your hair. So he sends this girl over and she was like, you know, perfectly like nice and and cutesy or whatever, but also was a boxer.

36:39So she was like kind of hardcore, and she's from Lithuania. Like, interesting check, interesting check. But she had gone full Habibi mode with the, so she's getting the little like the wax, putting the wax on the inside of the eyebrows. She's got wax in the ears, like doing the wax in the ears, and the wax in the nose, and she's like pulling it out. And yeah, that was a real experience. So maybe not to be done again. And if I do have my hair cut from her, I can actually say, my doctor, not my doctor, a doctor told me, I'm not allowed to have this done because of my fibralis or whatever it was called.

37:16Vibrasai, yeah, you gotta protect the Vibrasai. I am trying my best. What about people who need to deal with pain more effectively? Have you got any tips for how people can deal with it? You know, a lot of the time in the clinic, I see people with chronic abdominal pain or other sorts of chronic pain. And I've found anecdotally and actually looked it up and it's evidence -based as well. When you explain something to someone, explain how something works, for example, in the case of pain, if you explain to a person why they're getting pain, the scientific physiological reason why they're getting it, that simple act of them understanding their pain actually increases their pain threshold and lowers their pain perception as well.

37:59which is almost like a Jedi mind trick. You know, you just almost dampened down their pain. And the interesting thing about pain is that there isn't a direct correlate just between tissue trauma and the amounts of pain that you will perceive because a lot of the pain, it's modulated by what you think. So if someone is getting an injection or a vaccine or whatever they're getting, if you ask them to look away from the injection, that will elicit less pain than you watching the injection go into your skin. So again, that is visually you're not getting the signals and that's dampening down your pain perception because you're not getting the visual input.

38:43So there are lots of things that you can do mentally to dampen down the pain. There was an interesting case report from many years ago of some a person who was admitted to the emergency room like a doctor wrote this case report up. He sees a man in the emergency room and he's he works in a construction site and he's got a big nail That's going through his boot and presumably scurrying his foot So he's screaming in agony like I've got this nail in my it going through my foot. I'm bleeding I'm gonna die and what they do is they remove the boot first of all to see you know The damage and see what's happened and it turns out the nail is not going anywhere near his foot but it stopped by the boot itself.

39:29So actually his foot is completely fine. Just that perception of it was going through was enough to cause that pain. And it's almost like a placebo and nocebo effect that you create in your head about pain. So, you know, similar to cold water exposure, initially it may be painful because you're expecting it to be horrible, but if you expect it to be nice and you could enjoy it, you can actually improve that experience. There's something interesting about cold exposure I learned from Huberman that is you can be relaxed when you get into the tub and that will make your experience much more enjoyable than being stressed about it.

40:11But what you actually want to try and elicit is that stress. So his advice is to go in with a sense of aggression as opposed to a sense of relaxation. So for me, my favorite way to do it is to just slowly sort of lower myself in, get up to my neck, put my hands in, and then just very gently breathe through my nose and count down from 180. If anyone wants to know how to actually stay in about a cold tub for three minutes, just count down from 180. It'll be difficult between sort of 150 and 60, and then after the first bit's fine and then after that you find as well. But what he's saying is that part of the cascade of responses that he wants to have happen, or that would be optimal to have happen, is something that's a little bit more fear -based and sort of activating, I suppose.

41:01And we did NAD, we did an NAD drip this week. So me, James, and my housemate, Zach, have you done one? Do you know what that feels like? I've not done one. I've given NAD to someone, but not, I've not had it myself. Okay, so it's not very comfortable. Anyone that's had it will say it's not, it's not an enjoyable experience at the time. It's a very unique category of pain. So they give you, is it Zoll Fran, Zoll Fran? Anti -Nosia. Okay, yeah. So they give you that because you can sometimes get nausea with it. It's a unique category of pain because it's one that you think or know is making you better.

41:42and it's one that is not associated with damage and is time -bounded. So you know that as soon as that bag's finished, it's done. You know that you're doing it in service of you being better and it's not because something's snapping or breaking or going to be ruptured or whatever. So your relationship and the story that you tell yourself about the pain is very unique. There's not many categories of discomfort that can be like that. You're going to pain in your stomach. Oh my god, it's my appendix, it's going to blow or whatever. Yes, yeah. But yeah, I just, I really enjoyed, from a mindfulness perspective, I really enjoyed playing with that sensation.

42:14What does this mean to me? What's the story I'm telling myself about this pain? Like how can I find more intrigue in this sensation? It's a very unique opportunity for me to be able to see this and not layer it with fear and concern and worry and stuff like that. It's very, very interesting. Yeah, that will certainly, fear will amplify your pain perception. So you yourself, it's hard to do, but especially people dealing with chronic pain, but you can up -regulate or down -regulate your perception of pain, depending on how you put your spin on it. That's interesting. What about eye health? How can people keep their eye healths optimised?

42:50Well, eye health now more than ever. There's, you could say there's a myopia epidemic, a short -sightedness epidemic, because people are just on screens constantly all the time. And when you're on screens all the time, laptops, mobile phones, TVs, whatever you've got, watches, smart watches, our eyes, the muscles which help our eyes focus on nearby objects are constantly activated and that actually over time changes the shape of the eyeball. It becomes less round and more rugby shaped and this can affect long -term eye health causing eye strain, eye fatigue. So I genuinely think people do need to look up from screens a lot more.

43:31I know it's really ironic are saying this and us having a conversation about eye health, was being virtually having a chat. But yeah, I think we are addicted to smartphones and constantly training down and wearing our eyes out. What is a good protocol for people to try and offset that? Me personally, I've spent a lot of hours reading, revising for surgical exams over the years and pouring over textbooks and various things. and I've found that just breaking it up and doing something called the 2020 -20. So every 20 minutes you have a break from whatever you're doing and you, you know, just 20 minutes and you get up and you look somewhere 20 feet away and then you go back into it after another 20 minutes and just giving yourself a bit of a break.

44:21You know, just every 20 minutes you should have some sort of eye break where you are defocusing your eyes, you're not so intently focused on one thing and you look into the distance, into a horizon, into a broader vista or a broader view, allow your eyes to almost, you know, defocus, and defocusing your eyes and looking at a broader picture helps to activate the parasympathetic nervous system where you're sort of, you know, down regulating your stress response because when you are focused on something, whether it's closely looking at a page on a piece of paper or closely looking at a moving object that's close to you, That is some sort of stress response.

45:01Your adrenaline is spiked at that point and defocusing offsets that somewhat. One of my favorite triggers is to remember that you have all of this on the outside of your vision and that if you're looking at something or anything and a really easy parasympathetic activation is to just allow your focus to kind of ease out onto the sides. Even if you're remaining focused on what's in front of you being short, but allowing the width of your vision to kind of come into view and to be a part of your like salience network, I guess you'd say. And that's just so nice. It's such a lovely trigger that and a nice slow breath out is about as quick of a way to just, I'm done regulated a little.

45:48Yeah, and what exactly what you're describing there is known as optic flow. So, you know, when your cycling around and you're constantly seeing both what's in front of you, but also all these things passing you, or if you're taking a hike through nature, you've got this broad vista. So you've got both the combination of a broader view and it's a moving broader view as well, which further stimulates the paracensin that ignores the system. Does something about lateral eye movement down regulating a migdala response, isn't I think I mean, I'm though experts specifically on the eye, but you know, the eye and the retina is part of the brain.

46:30So there are a lot of things to do with the eye that directly impacts the brain. And you know, I have no, I wouldn't be surprised if there were certain triggers or certain types of movements that did influence your perception of fear or anything like that as well. I think Opticflow is probably one of the big movers for what I'm talking about. But I seem to remember learning from Huban again that there's something specific that occurs as you're moving through an environment, things are coming past you and you're looking from left to right. And I remember it's so cool, man, when you test stuff in your own life and then science comes along, I guess science was probably already there, you just didn't know about it.

47:14Someone comes along and informs you about the science. And for years and years I was doing this morning walk thing. And sometimes I'd wake up and I'd feel a little bit kind of anxious in my body or in my mind. I'd have thoughts that I just percolating in a way that I didn't want. And I'd find that after 15 minutes of the same loop I used to do in Newcastle, I'd get back and I'd just feel a lot better. Like the world was kind of, the world was a bit rosier. And I remember just really enjoying that experience. To the point where I think a morning walk is the most consistent thing I've done from a habitual perspective over the last maybe 10 years.

47:50And then, yeah, I hear an optic flow and this sort of down regulation of the amigdler and I go, oh, wow, that was maybe part of what I was feeling. Yeah, absolutely. And I think the routine is key as well. I mean, it sounds like when you went on your morning walk in Newcastle, there was a moment where you were by yourself just with your own thoughts. And I think sometimes the act of just doing nothing helps to spot creativity and just It's a form of mindfulness, whether you acknowledge it or not, just being with your own thoughts, it's quite calming. What about slowing cognitive decline? I know that Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, dementia, general cognitive decline is kind of another hot topic at the moment.

48:32What's the 80 -20 from that? Yeah, I mean, as a doctor, that is genuinely one of the diseases that scares me the most. I used to think it was cancer, and as someone who deals with cancer and removes bowel cancers, and other types of cancers, I think the human race has gained some sort of but hold in the fight against cancer with various trials and medications that we've got coming out. But Alzheimer's still seems to be the outpost that we haven't quite got to yet and figuring it out. Although there are some interesting trials about monoclonal antibodies which can reverse, potentially Alzheimer's, our brains are all slowly turning to mush whether we like the fact or not, how can we slow down the decay?

49:18And for me, it's very basic things that we need to start setting into our habits now because the clinical signs of Alzheimer's, they don't start until maybe you're in your 60s, 70s and 80s, but the first seeds are planted in your late teens, 20s and 30s. So our sleep habits notoriously bad when people are in their teenage years or 20s and sometimes even 30s, especially nowadays with Netflix and various streaming services and endless TikTok, scroll holes. So, poor sleep and chronic poor sleep can prevent the amount of brain wash that happens during those sleep cycles. We have this cerebral spinal fluid which washes the brain of all the toxic protein buildup.

50:05That doesn't happen in such an efficient way if you don't sleep well. And those toxic proteins, the amyloid beta plaques and the tal proteins can accumulate and actually cause neurodegeneration over time. Same thing with if you don't exercise enough, you don't get enough regular blood flow to the brain. Again, diet has a role to play as we know the microbiome, its interaction with the brain and the gut that has a role to play. But also social contacts as well. If you look at these blue zone areas where people live to 100 Centenarians and sometimes even longer, they have great social networks and social contacts and you know, we are humans, our social creatures, so we crave on a physiological level some degree of network loyalty and community as well.

50:55One of my friends Johnny talks about the keystone decisions he called them getting a dog as a keystone decision for him. It's an individual decision down stream from that, there are a ton of other things that end up coming along for the ride. So you're going to get more steps in and sleep and wake cycles are going to be up and you're going to have to have an externalised sense of ego because something else is dependent on you, it's so unassurable. And I think that pushing to spend as much time on an evening, trying not to eat on your own, trying not to eat with a screen, really relatively simple rules, three to one rule.

51:32You know, this is something easy for me to follow. Sean Stevenson taught me about this this year. He has a rule where every meal that he has on an evening time has to be with someone. It has to be with somebody, even if he's going to call on the phone with his AirPods and whatever, because he's in the house and his owner is traveling or whatever. And it's such a keystone decision to think downstream from the relationships that you have. What have you got? Well, you're out of your own head. You're talking a little bit more. You're probably eating more slowly, even from a digestive perspective. Maybe the person that you're with says, hey, why don't we go for a walk?

52:09And you go, oh, yeah, why don't we go for a walk? And going for a walk after you've eaten, fantastic for digestion, insulin response, etc. Blood sugar. Yeah, that's a big one. Finding people that you can eat. There's a meme going around the internet at the moment that guys can't eat lunch without YouTube on. So this dude's phones were now of battery and he's absolutely starving, but he has to wait for the phone to boot back up before he can start the lunch, which is already in front of him. But it's true. It's a mean because it's true because of how many people can't choose to eat in front of screens.

52:44And I'm, you know, in my less disciplined days I do too. Yeah, and if you look at a lot of these Mediterranean cultures and even the Asian cultures, African cultures, they're all about big shared meals, whether it's lunch, breakfast or dinner, you've got the elders of the family, the grandparents, you've got the mother and father, you've got the grandchildren, you've got uncles and aunts, and it's like a big occasion where everyone is there with each other. And even in Japan, in Okinawa, the island of Okinawa, you've got people who are friends with each other for decades. They're friends for over 50 years and they have these little tribes called the Moai.

53:27They help each other when they're in financial struggles, emotional struggles, stress in their lives. So that support network, even something as simple as just a meal with someone has a significantly huge impact on your health. And this is, you know, not just wishy, washy, bro science, if you actually look into the evidence of companionship and heartbreak, when someone loses someone they loved, they can actually die of a broken heart. And this is called Takotsobo's cardiomyopathy. Your heart changes in a way where it causes such a significant, that huge negative event in your life. So you're, I don't know, wife of 50 years passing away.

54:15The flood of stress response chemicals, adrenaline, cortisol, and various other things, has such a huge impact on your physiology of your heart. And it causes a type of a heart attack and you die of literally a broken heart. That's wild. My mom's, my mom and dad's dog two years ago. Two years or three years ago. I can't remember. But, passed away. It was super ill and there was two dogs, one that was ill, another one that was old. Within five days, I think, or 10 days of the first one dying, the second one who died as well. Well, there you go, yeah. Compounding chip and an increase in stress and all of that.

54:57What about stress? It's kind of a, again, another buzzword that people throw around. What? But when I think about it, I understand that chronic stress is the thing that we need to be concerned about, that stress in small doses is that, but how do people know if they are stressed on a daily basis? After a while, that's just life to you, you know? Yeah, I think, you know, it's interesting. So a lot of people do think that maybe stress is just a psychological state, that it's something to do with your mind and you'll obviously be stressed. if you feel bad or whatever, but actually stress invokes a physiological response as well.

55:36And stress affects so many different organ systems. For example, stress can cause breakouts of various skin conditions. It can exacerbate a lot of skin conditions like exma, dermatitis, rosacea. You can get acne breakouts with stress. It can disregulate your gut as well. We know the brain and the gut are intricately connected and it intertwines. And so if someone's got certain types of inflammatory bowel disease like ulcerative colitis or Crohn's or even irritable bowel syndrome, states of stress can cause diarrhea or in some cases the other way and cause constipation or abdominal pain. A lot of autoimmune conditions like rheumatoid arthritis, stress, worsens the symptoms of that.

56:21So actually every organ system you look at from your immune system, when you're stressed, the number of natural killer cells, the type of white cells, which help you fight off cancer and viruses, actually plummet if you're stressed because stress itself is an immunosuppressive response. What's that? I remember reading about this, that during periods of high stress, it's often, people sometimes don't get ill, but that as soon as the stress finishes, as soon as they hand in the dissertation, as soon as they complete the project for work, they rebound and find that they get incredibly ill. Have you got any idea about what the mechanism is that's working there?

57:04If I had to have an educated guess it, it would probably be some sort of compensatory response by your body that just needs to survive. It's on survival mode where, you know, you hear these reports of people being in accidents and somehow they've managed to lift a car so someone's leg can be pulled off from the car. They display superhuman strength for that particular scenario and that can be explained by increased amounts of stress response chemicals I suspect it would be something similar in the case of you know You're facing a deadline or chasing a deadline and that stress response keeps you afloat But actually you're about to break and as soon as that event is over you are broken and those cracks they start to appear That's what I would Yeah, I think it's not, I seem to remember that it wasn't far off, you know, it's kind of like a protracted Hormesis response thing that you've got going on.

58:03With regards to the lifting cars off of children and legs and stuff like that, another interesting thing, it sounds like science fiction, but we have a rate limiter on what our brain will allow our muscles to do. because if our brain just allowed our muscles to do whatever they wanted, you would snap your shit significantly more frequently than we... And I brought you to Nikhil these three years ago, so I know how frequently we snap our shit. But yeah, and if Eddie Hall tells this really cool story, have you heard him tell the story about when he first lifted 500 kilos? Well, no. So he's going for the deadlift world record, and he talks about the fact that he, He, however long before in his warm up routine envisioned a car on his daughter and he walks out and does this thing, but he gets, does this one left?

58:55It takes 10 seconds, I guess, to do this thing. And he's immediately put on a ventilator, his blood pressure is off the chart, his heart rates through the roof, his eyes turn blue. People can go and look at the video of him. He hasn't got blue eyes. But if you go and watch the video of him his eyes turn blue, it's crazy. So yeah, there's single formative extreme sort of stress driven adrenaline controlled instances of people doing stuff Wild shit comes out of them Yeah, I think you know, you're right. I mean there is a certain degree of stress that we need and that Hormises that you mentioned It's the same as when you're eating vegetables, right?

59:36A lot of people talk about There are various bizarre people online who talk about how vegetables are bad for you and you should cut them out because they contain anti -nutrients or defense chemicals in the plants. And yes, they do. And technically, at a very microscopic level, they are poisonous for us because those defense chemicals do poison us. But actually, it's such a small amount that it's actually beneficial for us because it is that process of hormesis, just like cold exposure, that small amount of stress is beneficial for us and allows the body to respond to that and eventually grow over time and improve.

1:00:15Talk to me about the role of awe in well -being. I awe. Yeah, so I mean, this is another thing which can help to offset or delay neurodegeneration and brain atrophy. And it's just that profound sense of potentially doing something new, seeing something new, and just experiencing new things. And that is always, it doesn't have to be always you need to go and see a wonder of the world. It can literally be you going out into nature and being exposed to awe and being inspired by something, by someone, something, an act, either yourself or seeing something else. And you know, these are all positive emotions which ultimately are good for you.

1:01:00It's so strange to think about all as an emotion. No one talks about it. People talk about all manner of emotions, but all dread, even dread, which is kind of the, I guess in some ways the opposite of all, people talk about that. I think it's kind of been repurposed as anxiety or fear or whatever. But yeah, or it's just, it needs a, like we need to make all great again. It needs a rebrand. There's a part of my garden in between, we have two houses here, and in between the main house and the other house, what I'm walking through this, this really clear view of the night sky and it was so clear in Austin here last night, even just that tiny little bit of looking up at the sky, so lovely.

1:01:45It's just, again, the same as the, I went on a morning walk and it made me feel better. I can't explain the mechanism. I don't know why, is this just woo? Like, well, look, ultimately if it makes you feel good and you know that it's not destructive, it's not making you feel good because it's crack or because it's processed foods, I reckon just like Rins and Repeat. Yeah, all of these things, if you really look into it and you boil it down to something and you want something tangible to label it as, it's a meditative experience. It's a form of mindfulness or bringing calm to your body, right? whether you're just walking, like, you know, your walking routine, your morning walk in new castle or looking at that night sky, it is a form of not focusing on nothing, but also focusing on everything at the same time.

1:02:34That is the art of mindfulness. And that is what you're doing. Sometimes unintentionally, when you're bored by something, nothing else is in your field of focus, except that one or inspiring act. Oh, yeah. Karen, let's bring this one home. Why should people go? They want to keep up to date with you and check out all of the stuff that you've got. You could check me out. I'm like a virus. I'm everywhere. I'm on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, wherever you want to find me. New book as well. Yeah, this book may save you a life. We cover a lot of the things we talk about here and hopefully more to hopefully save your life.

1:03:07Amazing. Karen, I appreciate you. Thank you, man. Thank you, Chris.