#777 - Gary Vaynerchuk - Predicting The Future, Dealing With Hate & Living In The Dirt

26:28Like he is leading from the front personally. And yeah, I think that I think that trying to realize, he's the final thing as well, just the point on authenticity. If you do you, you can never get it wrong. Of course not, because the only game in life is to mitigate regret. And if you live a fake life, you could have a trillion dollars, all the girls, all the guys, all the trips, all the handbags, all the Lamborghinis, I promise you, I know unlimited 70 to 90 year olds that have all the stuff who are not living happy lives, who feel empty, who have deeper grettes. And so yes, of course. What have been the biggest changes in the type of content that works online across the lifecycle trajectory since you started creating to now?

27:23Wow. You know, I started creating February 20th or 21st 2006. That's when I did my first episode of Wine Library TV. And so a lot has changed. You know, it's funny. My early instincts ended up becoming the game. One of the reasons I had a lot of eyes on me back in 2006 -7 was I was doing long -form video on YouTube. And then I started doing it on a site called Vidler. That was a big early mistake of my career. There was this competitor to YouTube called Vidler that had tagging. And I was doing such long videos. And people wanted to see the third wine I was reviewing. So the tagging at the bottom, you could click the little button and get to the third wine was like this perfect.

28:02I like time stamping. It didn't exist then. Right. Interesting. Yeah. Anyway, nonetheless, I so much has changed. First of all, all of social media content in 2006, seven, eight as public creators and influencers was only Silicon Valley elite. There was no normal people on it going back to club life. So many of my New York friends and LA friends that are of my age who I didn't know because I was working in the liquor store and I was working all the time. I didn't do as much nightlife, but a lot of them I know now and they built their careers and everyone's kind of on, you know, found each other.

28:37They talk often about the 2006, 2007, eight year of like these social media people, myself included Zuckerberg, Evan Williams, Travis from Uber. I'm like, oh, we thought those people were nerds. Like, that wasn't cool. So the 2006, 7, 8, 9 creators, influencers content was more intellect, more business, more so more innovation, more techie. There was no cool, nobody was cool. There was nothing cool about it. And so a lot of it was, if you go look back at, I mean, if I bet you, if you read the first 10 million tweets, which I assume from 2006 to 2000. I don't know how long it took them to get there.

29:22It is nerds, it's engineers, it's front end designers, it's Python and Ruby on Rails engineers, it's startup founders, it's VCs, and it's not VCs today, which is like cool bro Jim bros that are also VCs. It was fine. It was coders. It was nerds. I was, when I tell you, I was like a charity prod, I was like the industry, the Web 2 .0 Silicon Valley industry would point to me a lot in 2006, 7 ,89, because I was a wine store owner in New Jersey of like, see, this isn't just San Francisco. I was like an enigma. So that was that. Also, nobody thought in what I played out here, Nobody was thinking about this in like deep strategy.

30:11First of all, the biggest thing that changed is social media for the first decade was e -mail marketing. A mass as many followers as you can, and a certain percentage of them will see it every time you post. Now in the last three years, we've lived through the tick -tockification of all social media. Now it is - What's your main money, say that? We now live in a social media world where somebody listening right now that's 17 year -old you and I does not even have a profile. It starts a TikTok account and her or his third post gets two million views that didn't exist ever for the first decade. It couldn't happen.

30:44She would have only had 11 followers. Now the TikTok application, the 4u page of vacation of every platform, the AI algorithms, it is now around interests, not around who you follow means that every individual piece of content now has the potential to reach a level of awareness that is far outreaching the effort you've put it into it. It's the ozemic and steroids of social media. Well, it's made social media much more egalitarian in that way. The meritocracy that we're living in right now. I mean, but like, I'm getting, I know he's no one I like, like we're talking about something important right now.

31:21This is how I'm always right. The goosebumps are the animalistic attraction as well. the fuck it will even to you. Yes, you are very handsome. Uh, no, when I, when I know I'm talking about something that matters, I get goosebumps, which is why we, you know, some people that, you know, Barley talks about AI or pressing a button. I just look at my goosebumps and like, does that make sure we clip this, um, the merit of this game right now and it intoxicates me. And I got the gray hairs and the wrinkles I put in the work for the last 20 years. And I'm pumped that I've been commoditized on the merit of the, it's the lion eats lion.

31:56It's the, there are sports you can't cheat. Like what I love about social media right now is it's merit based on your own needs. Good as your next post. When I tell you, I want to eat this. I'm set excites the f*** out of me. And I love that for everyone who is sitting right now. I mean, talk about something inspirational. You're listening right now because you motivate them. And they see me on in like yeah, either I like that guy but they're listening right they're sitting right now And they're not in a good place. They're like man. I blew it or I missed it or it's the fact that if they believe me Because it's 100 % true if they're sitting and be like wait a minute my single post about what I know about Zelda My individual post back to UK culture of like wait if I nerd out about darts in detail is that what these two I love that.

32:46I think, well, what do I think about British culture? Darts. That's where you go. It's darts, fish and chips and tea. You know, if you really think about that, going global, wait, my unbelievable knowledge of cricket, if I break that down in a green screen or do this knitting, right, or Nick Baratis one of my top dogs at VaynerMedia, because he finally heard me and he wanted to be a practitioner, not just an executive. He flips egg omelets. Flip some. You might have seen him. He's the guy who takes an egg like just egg on flips in here and catches it. He has a tick tock or Instagram. I think that has more views than I've ever had in my career.

33:27That's amazing. Like to me, I just love the opportunities of back to finding what you're looking for for everyone who's listening right now who still has either a lot or a glimpse of optimism is a left. Please listen one more time because and to repeat it for the f**kers in the back. The fact that tomorrow you can start. You decide to go after something you either really know or you really love. It's how going back to what's changed the day before I started Wine Library TV. I can't believe I'm saying this 18 years later because I lived it. I sat there and said I'm doing this YouTube thing and I debated two things.

34:01Will I do a wine show because I know more about that than anything or will I do a show about the New York Jets because it's the thing I love the most. I almost did a jet show and I ended up doing a wine show and I want everyone listening right now about their content on social. Am I going to talk about something I know the most? I'm an accountant. I don't love it. I don't hate it because if you hate it, you'll be dead. I don't hate it, but I don't love it. But mother f***, I know accounting and I also know I'm silly and I'm a bro or silly girl and I'm just going to make it a little more entertaining or I'm in obsessed with Avatar And I'm just gonna make unlimited avatar movie content.

34:39I don't think people realize that most people, if they go hard for a couple of years on what I'm saying, that on a bad day, they're making 80 to 150 ,000 a year in merch and a couple of brand deals in pre -roll, right? And for a lot of people on earth, making 150 talking about proper football instead of making 230, being an executive in the state organization doing landscaping is a much better life or even better because I actually believe the even more extreme. I think over time everybody will make more than if they hate their job of making social media content around their passions or expertise.

35:22And I think that's a level of merit, long tail entrepreneurship because we think about this shit from a Mr. Beast from a Logan Paul's day. but most people are not gonna make millions of dollars a year in social, but most people have the opportunity to make hundreds of thousands. And that long tail is misunderstood right now. Talk to me about when it comes to the specifics of content, style, what do you, what do you think have got the greatest upside at the moment? Everyone's talking about vertical video about face to camera, sub stack, I think has got that tremendous one of my favorite. I don't know whether you call it social media.

35:59I guess it's kind of what medium should have been. Yeah, it's exactly right. It's content. I've subscription. I think medium shit in the bed there and absolutely, I mean, they had it. They absolutely had it. Ev Williams is probably one of my three favorites. Is that the dude behind medium? Ev Williams is also the dude behind Twitter. I know Jack gets a lot of the credit now. Okay. In 2006, 70, Jack invented the concept. Ev ran the company. Ev was, Ev was the guy at bare minimum. They were the co guys. but the 2006, 7, 8, 9 era of Twitter was at Williams. He also was B -Bow, which, you know, like he's like, I'm not B -Bow, excuse me, blog spot, he sold something to Google, I apologize, definitely wasn't B -Bow, it was something else.

36:42He, I think blog spot or something of that nature, if I call, and he also then did a pot, after he sold a big company to Google, he was about to build a podcast company, and then Apple podcast came out, he was smart, he was like, this is gonna lose, shut it down, very smart and Twitter. He did medium. You're right. They were very close up. So I was so bullish on medium and sub stack, I think, innovated that same side. Similar to dig and Reddit, right? Dig was Reddit. Yep. All right. So blogger. Thank you. From blogger is what Ebullium's did. From content strategy side. Someone says, Gary, I found my thing or I have an idea what my thing might be.

37:19It's going to be cricket or tea or darts. What should somebody be thinking about? I think a lot of people get stuck in the what to make mechanisms. Yes. Let's go into it. Let's go nerdy. First, it's a self -awareness game. There is multiple mediums that work in communicating. I'm glad you brought up Sub's back. Sub's back because it allows me to go there. There is the written word. There are people listening right now who know more about video game 1980s culture than anybody in the world. However, they are very self -aware and they're like, this shit, I'm not going on camera. I don't have the gift of gab.

37:57I'm incredibly awkward with my words. I'm shy. I don't like it. Good news. Do you like to write? Huh? I'm a little bit more there. Or they have great gift of gab, but the camera makes them, it kills them. Great. You got video, you've got audio, and you've got the written word. If you want to go to the extremes, you could even animate and cartoon it. You could even go that far, but that's a little bit of a further putt. But what would I say? First you have to know your medium, the preferences video. Because video is a starting point to everything else. I do audio and written word without doing it because everything's extracted from my video.

38:37So video is the holy grail. No question. Video killed the radio. Start like that's right. However, it is not required. That's very important for people to hear. Number two, once you decide to do it, you have to decide your medium. So for example, if somebody who's listening is really into modern IP law with AI coming, with NFT culture, with Disney, with Pokemon, LinkedIn and YouTube are going to be much better mediums for them potentially than let's say Facebook. Right. But if you're into parenting, Dr. Becky Bigshadot, she's getting a lot of momentum, Facebook's a dream. So you have to know where your audiences are, you have to know what mediums and then per medium becomes the creative Variable meaning LinkedIn is a monster for the written word.

39:24You write a Epic for substack like New York Times, Optin, blogging, medium, you write 12 a newsletter person, you write 12 paragraphs of fire about something B2B or business oriented and you post that on LinkedIn with a good picture. There now for you page stuff will get you lots of views, lots of reads. And LinkedIn is a very different audience. You get one proper to read that. You're getting a message on LinkedIn that's going to make you money. B2B and like grown up business, LinkedIn is one of the biggest opportunities that people miss because for example, this iconic CPG brand you're building.

40:05If you write four paragraphs on your strategy of something you see on LinkedIn, that may lead to a business development deal that will never happen on Instagram where you're building consumer. Because it's a distributed from Walmart happens to come across it. You got it? Right. And LinkedIn is so global, it can even be a small, you know, live shopping player in China. People don't understand what's going on. So to answer the question is, they'll all work. When you go into them, it starts getting into real culture. When you're writing something, your headline matters. It's good old newspaper. That LinkedIn post, the variable is gonna be your opening headline.

40:42What do you think about when it comes to copy for a headline? I think about what is unique? Can you say a different... I'll tell you the biggest thing. I actually thank you for being so good at interviewing. You're pushing me in a good place. When I think about social media creative, I think about it in consumer segmentation, something I call cohorts. So when I make content, I'll make content for, I'll think like, okay, I'm making this for 48 to 55 year old parents of a 21 year old and it's a wealthy family and the kid is lazy, but they were the parents that made all the money because they grew up poor and they have anxiety that their kids lazy, but they're the ones that created the nepotism because they pay them money.

41:23That's the content being made for. Cohorts with teeth. That was a very narrow thing. I wasn't saying parents. So I think when I think at headlines, I'm like, what narrow group am I writing this for? I'm going to write this article and this headline is going to be written for the buyers of the biggest retailers in America. Title, what big box retailers don't know about beverages. You see what I just did in Prov? That, my brother. Uh -oh. That my brother, that's why I wrote this book. That's what I know is missing right now. People are trying to hack the algos. They're looking for best practice.

42:01That's wonderful. That's called P, platform strategy. But then there's the C, I call it PAC, platforms and culture. And then you have to have consumer cohorts. So you have to know the platforms. Absolutely. Vertical this. Carousel that. Live stream this. Like best practices. As you know this, tick -tock and Instagram are now littered with characters that do the Gary Vee thing and tell people what the best platform things are. but the platforms tell you. The fucking Serim guys making content every day, like this wouldn't swim cares about. You just follow every time TikTok puts out an announcement, that's what they're gonna do.

42:31It doesn't take a super hero to understand if meta says, we now care about carousels, go make carousels. Like Jesus, the culture, the strategy, the headlight, like the way I'm thinking here, like, who are you making it for? Why are you bring, let's go back to something I said earlier. Okay, so now you're writing a LinkedIn post, what big box retailers don't know about, the beverage market. If you write this as a press release for you, you're being selfish with the hope that the Walmart buyers say that article's not gonna hit. If you really take a step back and spend 30 hours analyzing what's happening at Big Box retailer with drinks and understanding something that they're overestimating, you can now say you could start it with like one of the biggest mistakes about how Big Box retailers think about their relationships with Coca -Cola and Dr.

43:15Pepper is they overvalue What Poppy was able to do, did did did did did did, did did did it? What, what prime was able to do did did did did did did, did did got it. Like with death did did did did it. Got it? That shit. Love that shit. That level of depth is missing in the game right now, and that goes for everything. You want to be a fashion brand? What's the micro influencer strategy? Do you go to Cicella, not to be at Cicella, but to film everything for you to post -produce it for your social content, because no photo shoot in a studio like this could ever replicate the actual energy of a festival where the cool kids are cooling out.

43:51Things like that. In other news, this episode is brought to you by NetSuite. The less your business spends on operations, on multiple systems, on delivering your product or service, the more margin you have and the more money that you keep. But with higher expenses on materials, employees, distribution and borrowing, everything costs more. So to reduce costs and headaches, smart businesses are graduating to NetSuite by Oracle. NetSuite is the number one cloud financial financial system, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one platform. With NetSuite, you reduce IT costs because NetSuite lives in the cloud with no hardware required and accessed from anywhere.

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45:02I can do written word on sub -site. I can do vertical video tick -tock Instagram I can even do that on Facebook. I can just simul post it from Instagram across on the Facebook can do YouTube shorts etc What are the platforms over the next? three to five years that you're the most bullish in barricade. I can't answer that question because it's not my brain thinks. Let me explain what I mean. Day trading attention is don't romanticize about yesterday, Instagram. And don't try to get too excited about tomorrow. Elon posts yesterday, Vine, question mark, right? So Vine's coming, don't overthink today.

45:38I don't know what's going to be there in three to five years. I definitely wouldn't, like the reason I'm good at my game is when it happens I'm all in. So I can only speak about today and anybody worried about three to five and people ask me all the time what's next three to five I don't know. I know that meta and Google are not going to disappear So I continue to think they'll innovate or M &A and be in the game as macro companies But YouTube shorts was not in the cards for me three years ago Right, but then tiktok's pressure made them go there. I think vine is gonna be massively interesting to watch when they Rebe is that coming back a hundred percent?

46:09I'd be full It would make it would be Elon's too smart to not do it. Just Twitter own vine? Yes. Right, okay. And that was part of the deal. Yes, once, you know, but they shut it down, but it's still there. Right. And they own the IP. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, Vine is the absolute seed of this generation. Short -form videos started on Vine. It was a profound thing when it hit. I remember looking at it day one, I was like, oh, this is different, different. And it just completely captured youth culture at that time. And I was very serious about it. As a matter of fact, I launched, you can Google it right now, everyone listening.

46:42I launched probably, I mean, the article said it like the first influencer agency called Grape Story, which Jerome Jar, one of the first celebrities on Vine. And we signed Logan Paul, Rudy Moncus, like all of these characters, Brittany Furlough, like we were talking to all of them. So to answer the question directly and not get too scattered here, I don't know what three to five years is going to bring. I know that for everyone who's listening, the answer is more and yes and and. Meaning my argument with everyone here today is every minute that you don't spend on gathering more attention is a minute that you're potentially declining on your long -term opportunity.

47:24There's times to cash in on your attention. There's times to do other things, but I feel like a lot of people will talk earlier about regret. The only things I regret as a business man is not going harder on my thumb on the scale every time where I knew the attention was I should have made more TikTok videos six years ago. I should have done more Google ads in 2001 I should have sent more emails in 96. I should have done more tweets in 2007 And so whether it's you know, we haven't talked about live streaming I mean there's so much going on with Twitch and all these live streaming platforms tiktok live is very important and look, we don't, three to five years, what if tic -tuck gets banned by America in seven months?

48:03Where does all that attention go, right? I mean, to me, that's a huge opportunity for Vine. If I'm Elon, I'm sitting like, okay, if I time this perfectly, and I'm Elon, right? Like I'm that guy. If I announce Vine the day tick, like I can probably get every, like it could happen and that'd be insane. What a strategy. You know, and so I don't know. I know that as I sit here today, right this nanosecond, Instagram's harder than ever, because the supply and demand curve on Instagram is hard. More content was made on Instagram, yes, straight than ever in the history of Instagram. But the attention has been fragmented into YouTube shorts at the TikTok.

48:39So how can Instagram be as good as it was four years ago? It's not supply and demand, supply and demand, supply and demand of attention. I know that YouTube shorts has a longer tail on its views than anything else, because YouTube's the second biggest search engine in the world. So I know when I make a short on YouTube, I title it in a way that more matches search than I would on TikTok because I want somebody in four months to search, how do I and I show up, right? These are the things I obsess over. This is why I went so nerdy in this book. I want to talk in detail. That was only a recent update with regards to shorts that that they were using keywords in title for search.

49:18It is only been a recent thing more people have talked about, but from the day it started. Oh, that was always in there. It's showing up in resources. Yeah, well, it's something that we've, it's something that we've certainly used on the channel that will put if there's a short that comes up from this, it'll be whatever the title of it is, line, GaryVayne Chuk, which I've just based on, higher for search volume. Okay, so,

49:44Is there room in your opinion? Actually, even a bad question than that. Neval released at chat this week. What's your thoughts? I love it. I'm really enjoying it. I went ham this weekend. This has been a crazy week for me. So I've been a little bit sad that I haven't been able to jam within as much. First of all, I love the beginning stages of seeing AI so integrated into native social. Right? So for everybody that doesn't know, air chat, I, you know, it's ironic and you may know this. It's been around for almost four years. They keep iterating it. And the latest version of it is really caught fire last week.

50:18But by the way, all those nerds from 2006, seven, the Josh Allen men's that, Masios, like all my favorite homies from back in the day, they're all there. It's the way that it always works. The nerds are always a few minutes before the cool kids. So air, but now you see a blend back to cool kids being on there over the weekend in a way that we've never seen before. Not even clubhouse. It's usually the nerds. Now, for AirChat to not become Clubhouse or other things, aka a feature, right, because Twitter spaces is Clubhouse. It needs to keep innovating, but it's really cool, right? So if everybody doesn't know, it's very much like Twitter, but the difference is it's all audio, so you record your tweet, but then it transcribes it into the written word.

50:58But when you consume it, you can read it or listen to it. And when there's a conversation or a thread of tweets, it will just play almost like a podcast. It's really neat. There's a lot of cool things in it. So the way I think about things are they features or are they permanent platforms? So is this gonna get globaled up by some existing larger platform and just get folded into the correct feature list? That's right. So obviously Twitter would be a natural because it looks most like Twitter. But this might not have too much friction for that. The answer is the verdict is still out but when I think about the things that people have asked me about in the last several years, Dustin is filming in the background right now.

51:37You remember, I was really on it with Be Real. People are like, be real snacks. I'm like, I think it's gonna be a feature, right? Like I don't, like now, Be Real could have built on top of it, snapped it, snapped early, could have been a feature, and then they built more things into it. And then obviously their killer feature stories became foundational to every platform. So, you know, I'm always paying attention when new platforms pop, reclip. I don't know if you've seen this. This one's on my mind a little bit. Again, I've been watching it for several months. It hasn't popped yet. It's on your phone.

52:11It's recording everything that you're talking. It's a recorder of everything. Oh, it's on the phone. Yes. It's what people are scared of thinking what Alexa is. Talk about conspiracy theorists. But here's the interesting part. It's only recording the last two minutes. So it doesn't record everything. It's a rolling last two minutes. You know what that allows to happen? Oh, we just said that thing. Oh, that's very small. That's cool. The reason I thought TikTok was going to explode musically was I'm like, oh my god, this is social media or training wheels. They're giving people music. They're giving people all these edits.

52:46It's going to help non -creators be better creators. The reason I like ReClip, it allows everybody in the world to be an audio, content creator or video. Because then when you're done with the ReClip, you can add features to it and it becomes like a TikTok. I think they're onto something again. These are, I'm always watching, but I don't, it's even rare for me to mention something like Reclip in such a prominent platform like this podcast because I don't want, I don't, I don't, on the record, Airchack Reclip, I don't know, but I'm always in the lab watching. I'm always refining my day to day social back to day trading tension and I'm always watching for the next wave.

53:23And sometimes something I'll tell you this, what I learned on social cam, social cam was a social network, I think in 2011 or 12, that was hot for, I don't know, 48 seconds, a .k .a. a summer, but I created on it. That helped me understand what to do on Vine. It was even like Vine actually hit, social cam didn't, but it was short form video. And so when Vine came, I was like, wait a minute. And then obviously when the whole next year I was ready for short -born video. Talk to me about long -form content versus short -form, and we can fold into that conversation volume versus quality -sized depth of content as well.

54:07I think a lot to talk about there. Yes, to your first question, they both work. People watch a three -hour movie if they love it, or a 45 -minute vlog. I did very well with DailyB. They were long. And people watch seven and second videos that crush, and people will not watch seven second videos cause they're garbage, and people will definitely not watch 25 minute videos that they're garbage. So that goes back to self -awareness, like are you capable of doing a vlog or a great video series, or you not, same with short form, quantity, quality, quantity is not debatable. You either make 97 pieces of content in a month or you don't.

54:46Quality is completely subjective. Either this person's attractive, of funny and insightful or not. I'm very high on that. However, I do think that people, I think I didn't do a good enough job contextualizing when I would, you know, I'm in screaming on social for seven years volume, volume, volume, volume. The reality is, it's a quality quantity ratio. Volume, if you're capable, if you have a lot to say, if you have a lot of jokes, if you have a lot of good looks, if you have a lot of techniques, if you have, If you have shit to say, go, go, go, go, go, different ways at its different, you know, if you don't, of course not.

55:22This goes back to earlier why I'm obsessed with passion or expertise. You're dead if you're not doing passion or expertise. You just won't have enough juice. There's not enough fuel in it. Passion will take you forever, which is why I like that actually more. But expertise, especially if you don't hate it. I always get worried about expertise because a lot of people's thing that they know because it's their profession, they don't like. And I do think that fuel will run out as well. But to answer your question one more time to recap for everybody, both long and short form work and don't work. It's based on how good it is.

55:52I think quantity matters in future AI world. You're going to get drowned out by the quality of content if you do not commit it to quantity. Yes, of course it's predicated on the quality of that quantity. I just think you should have more at bats. Many of the posts I put out with all this 20 years of expertise and writing the book and being that guy. I miss all the time. But I love that feeling. Like I'm trying to learn, I saw somebody the other day in a piece of content making fun of me and my team for doing all sorts of different shit. And I was laughing because I'm like, no, no, that's the game.

56:28The point I think he was trying to make is like, he's lost his way, he doesn't know what he's doing, he's just thrown, we're not thrown against a wall, let's see what sticks. We're exploring different features and things to try to learn what's next. And I have the humility for it to not do well. Do you know how the reason most people suck at social media is they're scared to not get as many views as their little fragile ego needs to go through the day? I don't give a f***. I'm streaming on Twitch on mute in my office 83 people are watching. I don't give a f***. That doesn't take away from everything I'm doing.

57:03Do you not think that there's a degree of optics like people naturally use popularity is a proxy for quality. Of course. So to a degree, if you're consistently posting in a way that isn't getting, not saying that this is what you're doing, but if you're consistently posting in a way, and it's like 83 likes, nine likes, like that says something to your audience about. You know, when you look at YouTube and you see thumbnail, you see title, you see the name of the creator, you see how long it is, like those are important metrics. But when you go on, you see how many people have viewed that video.

57:46It depends on what, if you're trading for popularity, sure, or the perception of popularity, sure, depends on what you're trading on. For me, if 80 people are watching me on Twitch, while I'm on mute all day, there's really no reason to watch it, but I'm just experimenting. If someone then decides like Gary B fell off or sucks, that person is incredibly not smart. I'm not super worried about losing with losing players. Yeah, that's an interesting way. I think a lot about the time of cultivating the audience that you want and being very careful about the sort of people that you were trying to, you know, you can throw red meat and you can do the audience capture thing and you can be predictable.

58:28There's something I'm gonna make. I think it's 100 million views tomorrow if I decide to go crazy on something I don't believe on that will go the entire audience into watching. Who the fuck wants that? Like it depends on what you're playing for. Too many people are trying to win with losing players and too many people are not trying to win with winning players. One of the things I tell a lot of kids that fake the funk when they pitch me businesses, I see you're gathering your thoughts because I want you to hear this. I think you can really like this. No, no. I totally get it. Um, one of my favorite meetings to have is a kid that comes in that's got it.

59:01You know, the juice, but I'm like listening. I love listening to a pitch. And I realized that she or he just pitched me and it would work on 99 % but not the one percent. And what I mean by that is I'll go into something specific. They go where I know they're embellishing and I'll go very narrow. If it's a place I'm comfortable, I know what I'm talking about. And I know a lot about a lot of stuff is why I started VaynerMedia. The main reason I started VaynerMedia was to know as many different things about as many different businesses as possible and build the biggest marketing communications company in the world that I could deploy against my other behaviors when I got older.

59:35For me, it's always been about 60 to 70. Like, that's when I'm going to strike like a cobra. This right now is just for play. This is just a setup. This the f*** jab. Anyway, when I'm in a meeting like that, I had this happen the other day with a kid. And I went deep and I was like, did did did did did. And I could see the kid was a little bit like, because I was like calling him, and he crushed it, like, what's, I'm like, this kid's gonna win. You know, that charisma, that salesmanship, and there was a lot of good stuff, but he was full of shit on like three and four things, but it was complicated to know it.

1:00:07But it just happened to be in a space that I knew enough to be able to go there. He really took it well, which was what I wanted to see, which gave me even more confidence as he's just 24 and he's gonna get there. And then I said something to him that I really, I say a lot of shit and I'm into this shit. But I like those moments where I'm like, I think this person just internalized this and it's gonna be like a thing. And I can't wait for them to dominate and I'm gonna be old and I'm gonna be like, Gary Vee once said to me, I like that stuff and I like it for him. I said, brother, you're gonna win with 99 % of losing players.

1:00:37The problem is you do that pitch again to the 1 % winners. You're gonna lose with all of them and they're the only people that matter. And this is that recap, so what we just talked about. So yes, do I think perception is reality? Yes, I do. Do I think brand matters over everything? I sure do, but I think that if people, the biggest issue at the world right now is people want to take everything out of context, have no concept of, we've eliminated intent. People try to cancel everybody. Cancel culture was a disaster because it tried to cancel people without understanding their intent. If somebody is a beautiful person, they just didn't know the proper slang or didn't know, and they just had no ill will, the fuck trying to get them fired for.

1:01:14Similar to somebody seeing a video of like Mr. Beast on a post on snap, only have 80 ,000 views and be like, oh, he felt that that's not smart. That's not understanding what people and by the way, back to your journey and his journey and the journey that I had with empathy wines and kind of new CPG was next and why I talked about it forever and why I built VaynerMedia to be in CPG. A lot of creators are going to care less about how many maximizing views. They're going to care about views that translate into CPG sales or hours allocated to meetings and Bettenville, or ours allocated to being on TikTok live, like, shit's gonna change.

1:01:53Shit changes, but the lack of courage and curiosity of the A -list to try new shit because they're worried about what we just talked about is why a lot of those people are gonna end up in the B -list. In other news, this episode is brought to you by AG1. It's important to me that the supplements I take are of the highest quality, and that is why for over three years now, I've been taking AG1. They conduct relentless testing to set the standard for purity and potency. Everything that they make is the highest quality. It's NSF certified, meaning that even Olympic athletes can use it and they've updated the recipe 52 times over the last decade as new research and sourcing has come in.

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1:03:03That's drink AG1 .com slash wisdom. Give me a handful of creators that if you could bet on them somehow over the next couple of years, you would think about or it could just be the ones that you find yourself coming back to like you can't wait when you see their videos I'll tell you I love for adjusting based on my facial reaction. That's not why I made that face. I'm very weird when it comes to let me explain what I mean by this. I don't consider like, let me give you an example. I don't know if I'm betting on her. Nick Dio hit me up with someone yesterday and I spent like, I loved it. It's not that I'm betting on her.

1:03:49Let me see if I can find this. She's like an intern, like this, she's got 37 followers on Instagram or 137. And Dio said, I bet she has 50 ,000 in a month that I'm like, you're right. And why am, let me tell you where I'm going with this. I don't go deep on people or influencers or content creators. I go very wide. I'm looking for macro trends and things that I think I can contribute to the conversation and podcasts like this. So for me, I don't actually consume anything. And I consume everything. I'm trying to like really the reason I said I'm weird and you like like I'm trying to figure out how I can break this down.

1:04:35I am

1:04:39Seven years ago to answer Mr. Beast Yet I've never watched a Mr. Beast video on my life like Charlie Demilio is in my office for her first business meaning I might have watched one full eight second dance video of hers to know like I'm going so broad right? 310 baby as a rapper of like do I think like I'll listen to a song first minute. There's something in the way that I because I'm trying to consume everything it's almost like I don't have the time to go deep enough and so I'm not great. I'm disappointed in a weird way I'm disappointed in myself to not be able to answer a question because I've seen 50 of them in the last 50 weeks but But I, A, I've some form of reading comprehension issues and dyslexia where like words are hard for me.

1:05:32So like, I could tell someone that I saw them in an airport in Dubai for, and I could tell them we talked about peanuts 13 years ago. And I could have seen their social media 90 times and they could say what's my name. Not over the name. And I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of, I guess, so I guess I've got it in my head that you're like a meteorologist but for social media. You're trying to be the weather report. You're trying to take the big macro trends. what's going and I'll see things and I like like but it's very hard for me to say like especially because I like being historically correct so I'm not going to sit here and say like you know I think I can tell you the profile because this might help a lot of people.

1:06:11Yeah what's the kind of person that will succeed over the next few years on social media? The ones that can get the noise out.

1:06:22The biggest reason people won't win in social media is people don't have the stomach to handle the feedback. People would have the stomach for the changing wins of day trading. They'll be on a pedestal on ticked all these tiktok. And I say fuck like I'm one of them. Like the people that are winning on tiktok right now, their day will come. Their day will come where the attention shifts and they won't be ready. And will they be ready after having four years of being on to do it again? Do you have the intestinal fortitude to be imperfect you? You're in such great shape. If you go through a purity of your life for three years where you do all the wrong things and you wake up three years later and say, I'm getting back to this dude.

1:07:09Do you have the strength? Because once you know, the hardest thing is once you were there, when you lose it to get back, right? If you if you were making five million a year, let's say you're making 40 ,000 a year and then you blew up on social And you had two years where you made three million a year, but then you're not popping on social anymore Do you have the strength to go back and put the work in to get back to that place that do you have the Emotional capability to take one step backwards to then take two steps forward do you have the grit do you have the self -esteem? Do you have the ability to deal with the ebb and flow?

1:07:46Think about the people that get trolled. Are you gonna cry and disappear? Are you gonna be Logan Paul and become a WW superstar? Like, do you have the strength to deal with criticism at scale? Do you have the strength to deal with the toe bumps? The biggest reason people aren't entrepreneurs is entrepreneurship is losing constantly with the occasional win. It looks cool, but people don't love eating shit. Talk to me about how you deal with criticism and the inevitable ups and downs of success. You're someone that has got both. By being empathetic to it being a reality of life, it's inconceivable that you want attention and you're not going to have judgment.

1:08:31it in a world that is obsessed with taking things out of context and only headline reading. There's no common sense of to that. I don't take it personal. I care about the judgment of the most inner circles that I have, family and friends, employees, inner circles, acquaintances that became friends. I can't be upset if Johnny 97 thinks I'm a dick face because my energies too much. I'm also empathetic. I know that my alpha competitive high energy jersey, like I know what this is. That's not for everybody. Some people want to zen out. If you want to zen the f*** out, I'm not your guy. And so I'm just too empathetic.

1:09:13I also think it's humility. At the end of the day, I'm like, who the f*** am I? If I die tomorrow, what's going to happen? I'll get 24 hours of love on social, right? People will be like, oh man, this what the f*** Like, you know, like, I'm not a yellow light touch. Remember Gary V. 100 % and luckily we live in an era where we're more like all of us are more like the most famous people in the world. Like we'll live forever. Like a clip from this, like, do you know, cool it is that are great. You know, fun. It will be this is insane. You're and my great, great, great, great grandchildren. We'll somehow realize, cause the last names things will change, but somehow if they became great friends would somehow family tree it and be like, holy fuck.

1:09:56And they're going to hey, hey, Jeremiah, seven, nine, four, like they will literally watch this. You know, cool, that is. But at the end of the day, how do I handle it? Humility and empathy. Talk to me about just that immediate emotional reaction. I think that overcoming that is something that a lot of people struggle with. Well, I think that's right. You know, look, I, I, I, You know, it's nice in the stock contrast with the nice perspective, and I don't disagree. Price it in is the cost of doing business. Cost of doing business, you put things on the internet people gonna say mean stuff to you.

1:10:28And fighting against that is like, King cannot try and stop the tide. But that - Do you know fighting? Yes. Okay. You know some people like getting punched in the face? Yes, some friends with Tim Kennedy, yes. I like getting punched in the face. That's my answer. I don't know what else to tell you. Yeah, it's my nature. I was shit on my whole life. I was a Russian immigrant. I came over here. Russia was the bad guys when I came here. So I got shit on in grade school. I didn't speak English. When I moved, this is a story I tell very rarely, very rarely. I think I've done it once or twice. I'm going there.

1:11:02I often talk about I lived in people that really know me. My story is I went from Queens to Addison, New Jersey Addison, New Jersey where I became a Jets fan and an entrepreneur, but it's not fully true. So, Queens to Dover for a year than Edison. Dover doesn't make my story. I never understood why, but I'm starting to tap into it. It was bad. Because I didn't speak English, and because I went outside a lot, I got picked on a lot. And it was a rough neighborhood. I remember one story that's the main story I remember of that era where I saw the kid pee in the Pepsi cup. Like by the tree, and they came over and the seven of them bullied need me to drink it.

1:11:41I was five, five. And I kind of like tried like if I remember, I don't, it's very blurry. I mean, it's 43 years ago. But like, I didn't speak English. Obviously, when you're an animal, like a human at five, you know what's happening. But like, then I was a terrible student. I was decent F's. And this was the eighties. There was no political correctness. My teachers literally would look me in the face. These are grownups. They're your teachers. You look up to them. They're like, you are a loser. You're dumb. You're gonna fail. You're gonna be a garbage man. Then I also love sports. I played sports all the time.

1:12:19Do you know what happens when you play sports? You lose a lot. You win sometimes, but you lose a lot. Video games, this, and then I sold stuff. I did lemonade since I would sit on Tingly Lane in Edison, New Jersey as a nine -year -old. And I would watch millions, let me take a sip. I would see hundreds of cars drop by and not stop for my sign and occasionally get one. I live life under the mindset of it's all shit, but it doesn't matter. The shit doesn't matter. It's the sunshine, the occasional sun shines that is everything. And I think people live the reverse. A little ounce of poopy makes them cry because they're soft, because they're not hard enough, because they're not loving themselves.

1:13:03I love myself too much to give up about you. I don't know what else to tell you. I don't want to be delusional. I Don't want to be living in my own equals. I respect other opinions. I internalize for processing other opinions, but I have no interest in putting your subjective opinion about me above my opinion above me. That's how I deal with it. Needing us occurs when you place someone else's opinion of you above your opinion of you. I don't put my parents opinion above me. I don't even, if I'm not going to do that with my parents, so I love the most who built me. If I'm not putting my mom's opinion about me, above me, on me, how the fuck am I going to do that about Charlie Rick or Susan or Haseem?

1:13:55You. I'm interested in what drives you now. I get when there's a point to prove. when you're an immigrant that when you've been picked on that when you've been told you know, it's funny my my Mike spirit doesn't come from that trip on the shoulder even though I just spoke with passion about it minds about curiosity of I like the game I'm curious In a wild I would have loved to been a professional athlete. I'm so sad. I wasn't that would have really really satisfied me because the data was there. If I was a running back in the NFL, I would have been, it would have been over and I would have ranked 97th in career rushing yards, 400th in career touchdowns, right?

1:14:4118th in receptions by a running back. And I could have like, that would have enjoyed that. I would have been like, ah, good for Barry Sanders. He was better than me. And like, you, uh, Ricky Williams, I was better than you. That's what drives the shit out of me in entrepreneurship. I love this game of brand building and business building. You know, as I'm talking what drives me as a professional, as a human what drives me is to be as happy as often as possible and interact with the people I like the most as often as possible. But so much of what I love and what makes me smile is the friendships I make through the process of business.

1:15:21the family I make through business. It's so fun for me and I'm curious. I love where I'm at right now. I've done well, but there are unlimited people on stats that have done better than me, but I have a sneaky feeling that I'm going to catch up. And so what drives me is I think I've been built for the fourth quarter of my whole life. I alluded to it earlier. Everything I've been building is for 60 to 70. So do you still want to be working in grinding when you're 1670? Of course, because it's my hobby. I don't want to do anything that I don't like. I was a DNF student because I didn't like it. I was smart enough to get bees and seas, but I didn't even have that gear in me.

1:16:01If you said to me, hey, great interview, do me a favor. Can you help me hang this picture real quick? I'd be dead. I'd rather literally rather give you lots of money or do anything. I would go on a conference call to all of your employees for 14 hours that I don't have sooner than help you hang that picture. So of course I want to do that because I don't think of it as grinding. I don't think of it as hustle porn. I think of it as doing the thing that brings me the most joy. I would rather be in a business meeting than on a golf course. I would rather be in a business meeting than sailing. I would rather be in a business meeting than cooking.

1:16:36I'd rather be in a business meeting than watching a movie. I'd rather be really watching the jets having dinner with my family, love dinners with people, love jam sessions. It's so fun to be in Austin. This is where I learned to love it, South by Southwest on the ground in hotel rooms. Give me 25, 7, 19, 8, 13 smart people, clever people, thinking people, thoughtful people, and just jam about it. I'll take that over working every day of the week. But there's just not a lot of garage sailing. I know that's like a funny, like people, like a lot of the kids, because my TikTok videos, a lot of the kids think of me as the garage sail guy, because my TikTok videos do like, I just, but even that's business, marketing, buy, sell, trade.

1:17:17You know, I really love it. And so of course I want to be doing like, I, I, I mean, I, you know, you hear these stories. I'm sure this is Crusher Pats of the people who retire at 81 and then diet 82. I know why. They thought it was what they were supposed to do. And it took the life out of them. I have two important things to say about this. One, I'll do this forever, and I really hope to live to at least 100. Doing it, two, I'm incredibly excited of making my last social media post a split screen of this where I just ramped it here. And now 71 year old me is making videos and saying today's the day I'm retiring, both from running businesses and making content.

1:18:00This has been the great joy of my life. I love all of you. I hope that all the archives of everything I've put out can bring value to all of you. But today was the day I woke up and I said, I don't like this anymore. So you're open to this trajectory, not continuing in the way that you see it right now. In a way that would make your head spin. In equal visceral high energy of like the day I wake up and like, this shit, I'm out in the in the same way that I have full conviction as I sit here right now that that day will never come. We'll get back to talking to Gary in one minute, but first I need to tell you about Shopify.

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1:19:06You can sell without learning to code or design, you just bring your best ideas and Shopify will help you to sell immediately. Plus Shopify's award -winning help is there to support your success every step of the way. Right now you can sign up for a $1 per month trial period by going to the link in the show notes below or heading to shopify .com -modern -wisdom or lowercase. That's Shopify .com slash modern wisdom to grow your business now no matter what stage you're in. How will you, or do you think about the myth of identity at all the fact that you can so much of you and who you are is wrapped up in being that guy and letting go of it?

1:19:47Not for me. I'm aware. Not for me. I, one of the reasons humility is my partner is, I don't give a f*** about Gary V. I'm proud of it, but it is not who I think I am. It is not my idea. Where do you take that from? That detachment of it? No, where do you take who you are from? If it's not for the things that you spend, you know, you ever do you take pride in being successful and grinding? In order, starting with my mom and dad, then my sister, then my brother, in order, probably the top 100 people that have spent the most minutes with me in my life and what they think about me.

1:20:26So for people who are wanting to go on a path of success and exposure to the real world is that a prophylactic having a circle of people that you trust, that you have faith, have their best faith in you and care about you beyond not just what you do, but who you are. the reverse, having those hundred people be someone that you want to do the best for.

1:20:58Right? Like to me, you become sustainable and unbeatable if your framework is giving not taking. And if you do that with those hundred people, of course the outcome of them caring about you will happen. You've been giving them deposits of love and emotional strength, financial strength, whatever you're providing for them. And so yeah, I think simplicity is a big game. It's really cool how this all worked out for me. I could have been born in any era. The fact that I'm born in the era where the merit of Attention and business is all based on the internet now. No gatekeepers. Good for me. I'm good with that.

1:21:35Two, the era of judgment at scale that will disintegrate the most insecure and allow the most confident to shine, leave impact, inspired the next generation to get to true self -esteem, not fake self -esteem, and be able to navigate these choppy waters. Good for me. I read a really interesting Twitter thread last week about, I've thought about this for ages, I called it the elderly cloud paradox, which is we're often told about the perils of fame to young, the Macauley Colkins of the world, the Britney Spears of the world, And that if you have never known life as anything other than private jets and screaming fans and paparazzi It can be disquieting because you don't actually know what life is for most people and if that ever gets taken away from you Who are you?

1:22:24What's your identity? But no one ever talks about the pearls of fame to old and What does it mean if you're some let's say dusty Canadian Psychologist working in the annals of Toronto University and then a bald MMA commentator that plucks you out of obscurity and puts you on one of the biggest world tours that any speaking tours ever, maybe one of the biggest speaking tours in history and sell 20 million, 30 million, 40 million bucks. And now so many people criticizing you and all the rest of this stuff. No one talks about that. Because you... I feel way better for Jordan than I feel for Charlie.

1:22:59Jordan Peterson was a grown man and has built foundational abilities to have a relationship. So this is why the only thing that I don't quite know about that, it's difficult to be thrust into the world and never know what it's like to be normal before you've got a sense of who you are as a person. I don't disagree. I don't disagree that that's something that's tough. But what about when you're ripped from your moorings and you thought you knew who you were? Well, the good news is for both those people, you're fundamentally in control. Both Charlie, Demilio and Jordan Peterson are fully allowed to disappear.

1:23:33Would they be? How would they be able to hide? They're going to be noticed every single place that they go. The most famous people in the world over time once they stop feeding them system can disappear into obscurity. Do you know how not relevant Jordan Peterson and Charlie Demilio are in 10 years if they never show up again? Uh, uh, uh. The... The... Yeah, the pace of the new cycle means that if you... You're only as good as your next video. And if you stop producing, you'll become obsolete very quickly. Oh, 100, it happens all the time. Yeah. Do you know how famous TV stars were 15 years ago?

1:24:10Like Tom Selleik was the most famous 1980s, like, you know what I mean? My mum fancies Tom Selleik. Every time she was like his career. Of course. I mean, yeah. What a study, he's my crush, he's my crush. Every, I literally have the dudes in the world and every girl did in 1983, but not now. Like, you know, no, I have. What the fuck, Tom Selleik? You know, and listen, that's a legend that's different and it's like play, but like, I mean, it happens all the time like Lonely Girl 15 was the most famous person on YouTube in 2006 Right like like it happens all the time all Jerome jar. I mentioned him earlier Jerome jar Was the most famous person on vine?

1:24:48He represented what take whoever you think is the single hottest young person right now in Tiktok is he represented that and then he went to Africa and disappeared off the face of the earth. This is the best part of life. You are in control. You want to shit about the president? Either side, leave America. You want to say that your mom is toxic. Stop talking to her. You want it like like your buddies are dragging you down. Leave your friends. You don't, you know, Europe is not entrepreneurial enough. Come here. Like, stuff crying. Like, I'm not going to cry for Charlie or Jordan or me or you, because I genuinely believe we have the capacity to make change.

1:25:34You mentioned earlier on about how there is a temptation for creators to try and cash in too quickly, that they can continue to put the thumb on the scale, I think we said. I was saying, like, extracting attention with... You know, when you have this competitive advantage, you know that this music video style works. And like you only made 13 of them, not 700. Correct. Go ahead. I understand. That's less cashing in. That's more like extracting the most value out of the moment. So it's the inverse that I'm talking about. So someone has a competitive advantage at the moment. They continue to place their thumb on the scale.

1:26:09They continue to rinse and repeat with authenticity and originality and quality and quantity. This thing that is going to continue to spin the wheels and get the engine moving. How do you know when it is time to cash in? Because if, as you say, I am worried for these TikTok f**kers. How do you know when to get married? You make an emotional, in your body, things start to happen. You can feel, subjectively, you feel like you're making a subjective decision. People, I don't know whether people should be making business decisions with as much emotion as they do for getting married. Would it not be more strategic than that?

1:26:46Like a couple things. I think there's a lot of validity in that sentence. I think I'm making a slightly different parallel, which is nobody will know. You never actually really know if you made the right decision until the post game. So when should someone cash in? Where I was trying to go with that, and maybe I was going down a bad path, or maybe I'm still there, I'm gonna hold on to it for a second, is you need to just kind of make a call. like, you know, there's been many people that sold too soon. And there's many people that sold too late. Right? So that happens all the time. Instagram. universally people thought Facebook was stupid and they were they thought Instagram pulled one off.

1:27:30They were wrong. One billion was one of the great M &A steals of all time. Right? On the flip side, there's been many companies, I mean, the amount of entrepreneurs that are listening right now that had a $30 million offer on their business. They're like, you, um, Bayzo's mother, and then a year later, have zero happened. You know that, right? You've, you've, you've been around enough already to know unlimited, especially that notice what number I used, that nice little 15, 30, 40, and they're just, and they're dead inside. They're dead inside. This goes back to who's going to win. The one that could say, what I said here, when I tell you, it is insane that I did not invest in Uber's Angel round, there's no logic behind it.

1:28:10He was my best bud. I was investing constantly in that era. And the serendipity of me playing just enough defense because I just bought my first real apartment in New York. It was just a little less liquid than the ideology I had. Beyond an investment that I could have made $500 million on and I love it. I love it. But for a lot of people, that's the death blow. That's why most people get the f**k out of this game. They can't deal with like the what if what if there only is. So when should people cash in? I don't know. I think they need to make a decision on what feels right. And when they go to sell something or when they go to sell it or when they never monetized our audience, but now they want to sell their first sneaker or wine or book or collectible digital aspect.

1:28:55Like you just got to go with it. When you got to go with it, there's you can feel crescendo. You might, here's a, let me give you a, let me go actually detailed instead of macro. Let me go micro. Here's a good reason to sell something or cash in. You're tired. You've been going really hard for six years. You didn't come for much. You're watching your single, your father passed away when you were nine. You're watching your mom grind. She's 61. You just went over for dinner and she looks tired as, and you're like, you know what? Even though I want to keep building more equity with my audience before I cash in.

1:29:30I'm gonna go in for a cash in right now because you know what? A couple million bucks right now. I can get my mom to retire. I'm gonna buy her little house. Her sisters live down in the middle of nowhere in North Carolina. I can buy a house for $200 ,000. $180 ,000. She'll be happy. I could use a vacation. Actually, I'm doing too many things. I could use a couple of those bucks to add two teammates to, I don't need to edit anymore, right? There's, there's, there's, that's a, for instance. What's your perspective on continuing to ladder up as you're growing, continuing to just do little bits, little bits, little bits, as opposed to waiting until you have a huge amount of latents.

1:30:08Both work. Both can work. Look, I view this as a value exchange framework. If you're bringing value, one of the reasons I like selling stuff is I believe in what I sell. I have a funny feeling you believe in that drink. I don't think you mailed that in. No, we were involved every single step of the way. 12 months of development, six months of taste testing. When I tell you, you know, I don't, you know how Amazon works. Until it comes out, you don't actually know the price because they keep lowering it. They're, what this, whatever the price is, it's not. This $27 worth of thinking, like I believe in this more than my life.

1:30:45I know that I'm one of the few people, the hundreds, but that's not a lot of eight billion. I'm one of the hundreds of people that could have wrote this book Because I'm that much of a practitioner on every platform. There are very few people on earth That give as much about LinkedIn as they do about TikTok as everything in between as I do We'll also have a 2000 person 350 million dollar agency that works with all spends billions of dollars in media on social like I got it You know how good I feel like You know nice it is to sell this if you believe in what you're selling there is no better thing If you don't believe in what you're selling, there is no worse.

1:31:23Literally nothing worse. Yeah, I mean, that Naval quote, you're doing sales because you sucked at marketing, you're doing marketing because you sucked at product. And I think authenticity is a word that comes up a lot in the book. And I think rightly so, people are so concerned in an age of high mistrust of messaging from mainstream media, from independent media, all of the guardrails are off. So the independent media can talk about whatever they want. Apparently the guardrails don't even exist for mainstream media or anymore now. AI, deepfakes, automation, all of this stuff. I think the more that you can signal, I am a person of trustworthy, verifiable, authentic, real, relatable aspirational.

1:32:05And then back up the signal. Yes. And here is some proof. Here is some proof. And you know how proof happens? Correct. These kids hate me for pushing patients like it's the pure, the mother fuck. I know all these alpha a and b winners that I see I see them every day. I read all their DMs. I watched them. I may not remember their name, but I can tell you the joke they made Nikki casts, right? I know that kid is funniest and he's got fire in his belly and I like I can do shit like that and I'm telling you right now the number one kryptonite for all these super men and women is patients. They want this shit so fast because they're insecure.

1:32:44They want to show everybody they already won because they play for them not themselves. Could you imagine a Athlete's played for the audience? Can you imagine a athlete's cried when they're out when the home the nicks get boot. I'm so pumped about the Knicks right now. Finally the nicks get boot every single game every single basketball team that please in a major city. If they're down 11 nothing and have to call a time out because they came out shitty. Philly, New York, L .E. they get boot. Could you imagine if you're like I'm not going back out there, I just got booed. That's literally like being a content creator when somebody shits on you or you have a bad day and you don't want to post again.

1:33:21People don't have inner strength because they're insecure. That is what I'm obsessed about 80 % of my content to find different ways to get people into self love because it unlocks everything. You can't play if you're not strong. What you make of the culture of cynicism on the internet, that to me seems to be kind of the set point. Ground Zero for the way that people behave online is this cutting, sadonic, very cynical zero -sum mentality. I think the internet and social media doesn't exist. I think they're a mirror of human truth. So when I hear you say, what do I think about the cynicism of the internet?

1:33:54I take out the word internet and put it in society. Aren't people that cynical because they don't seem to behave that same way in the real world? That's because it's scarier to do it. You might get punched in the face.

1:34:09Keep bored. More your ship is real fun. People do it in their own minds. They don't say to your face because they're weak. The citizens is having in the airport right now. They're like, look at her. Who does the she thinks she is dressing that way? They just say it in their head. The greatest thing that ever happened to the human being is social media. It exposed the living fat of us and it will allow us over this next decade or two to take one step backwards to reassets to take two steps forward. I believe this era of social media will create the great Renaissance era of having real conversations around insecurity and self -esteem.

1:34:50Why? Because I think there's a lot of pressure. Because I think the conversation you and I are having right now because I think it's in everyone's face because I think people are scared because I think suicide and insecurity and unhappiness is really feeling it. But the silly thing is, is there's much more negativity and mainstream media that are in social media. You can't find positivity on mainstream media. You can find unlimited, come hang with me. You can find unlimited positivity and answers and things that have merit and trying to figure it out with optimism that is practical. So I laugh about where we're at right now on the shitting on social.

1:35:33I laugh because this is another cliche example of the world not understanding. We did this with alcohol. In the 1930s in this country of America, we banned alcohol. I love when people are like, we need to ban social media. I'm like, knock yourself out. I can't wait to see how that works out. Like people are so naive as if you need to ban the whole internet. If you don't want to deal with what we're dealing, what do you think happens if we banned all social media read it would be a cesspool even more than it is now forums Comments on block like humans are gonna talk now on the internet because you can hide The ship we used to think in our own heads or only talk to our one friend about or sit in our dinner table and talk about we now talk about out loud That's I've never even thought about that before that's a very interesting insight that there was no outlet previously that permitted humans to say the fleeting negative things that came to their mind because the repercussions were too great and the effort of saying them was too high.

1:36:34And the platform did not exist. So. Unless you were going to chisel it into a wall in ancient Rome or something. And so there you have it. So friends, nothing's changed. As a matter of fact, I would argue the world is happier than it's been historically overall. The dark ages were as bad world wars. What do you think would be happening on social media if we were in world war two right now? Like I don't understand how people don't understand this. They're like it's never been worse. I'm like you know nothing about history If it was world war two right now, the Do you think would be going on on social media?

1:37:10You think you like you think Americans would be like not saying bad things about Japanese people like we put Japanese people in camps in America Do you know your history? The fuck do you think the only difference is it exists and by the way, it's gonna be way crazier in VR and other like people don't get What what country lines matter if we spend 24 hours a day in VR? How should people protect themselves If so much of our time is spent online and so much of our interactions with other people is mediated through the internet and social media and social media enables people to be the worst versions of themselves.

1:37:52Or best. And best versions of themselves too. That's like, they mediate through thoughtfulness. We have to get smarter, disciplined. That's a, um, do you know how much of a drug sugar is? Do you know that my body every time I see a piece of candy loses its mind? Do you know, card it is to me for fight? That was a gap in company the other day. I'm having a pretty good week with nutrition. I'm pretty happy with myself. So at least little feet. Bull of. No, you know those peach gummies, the rings, those, I had a grab one and I was like, you Gary, but but I've been able to win most of this week and you're allowed to pitch rain.

1:38:32Of course. And that's what I'm glad you said that that's where I was going. And you're allowed to go on social media, do frivolous shit and look at bikinis or look at sports or even leave a negative comment. It's okay, but not in sustained format. It's not okay to live your life going around the internet saying negative things because all it's doing is exposing that you're a piece of shit To yourself you're not happy Misery loves company you need to get it out. Do you know how honestly the way I deal with negative comments is empathy and compassion and sympathy They're not in a good place. Yeah, I feel bad.

1:39:06I don't feel bad for me. I take it into make sure I'm again I'll say again. I never want to be delusional. I never want to get high on my own supply. I never want to buy into me I try that's why I stay away from me. I'm Gary Vaynerjuk. I know what Gary V is. It's me doing content publicly. It's like me being a comedian on stage or me being like I love it. Like I love it. I'm not playing a character. It's still me, but it's not my identity and I could stay away from it because I also don't want to buy it. It's also going well. I don't want to think that I'm better than. My favorite feeling is to not think that I'm better than but want to be better than.

1:39:45I don't think I'm better than, but I strive to be better than. You know, it's a really cool relationship graph. But anyway, nonetheless, I'm so pumped about these last three, four, five minutes. I hope people rewind to the beginning of this. Again, this is going to be a great era. Everyone has decided this is the worst. I just decided that this is the era where this had to be part of the equation. There used to be a world without guns, without atomic bombs, without written word, without Like without a, do you know how demonized electricity was when it first was invented? It had demons in it. Literally demonized.

1:40:19Shit happens. Everyone's like, oh, we used to be awesome. I'm like, no, we weren't. The Holocaust was an awesome. Slavery was an awesome. Like the black plague was an awesome. World War One and Two weren't awesome. Like Vietnam sucked. Like the Civil War was bad. You want, you think social media is bad? You think the Democrat Republican thing is bad now? Now, could you imagine if Twitter was popping during the Civil War? I mean, what the fuck? It's a matter of everybody. It's so funny. It's like everybody got an affid history. That's how everyone's talking right now. Like as if everyone got an affid history or people are good at critically thinking, people are not willing to be thoughtful.

1:40:57I think a combination of the two. One of my smartest friends has a question, which is what is currently ignored by the media but will be studied by historians. questions. God, that's such a great thing. There's so much. I'm trying to think about my knowledge of what the media is paying attention to right now.

1:41:20One thing I'm very fascinated by is how much of Africa China owns. Yes, yes. I'm obsessed with Africa. They've basically made liquid. They've capitalized so much. And I'm obsessed with Africa. I think Africa's the next great continent of talent, of ideas, of impact, of culture, of pop culture. Like I know pretty much as I sit here today as a 48 year old man that every day between now and my next 52 years, I really like to get to 100. I'll take anything after that. I'd be pissed in heaven for anything less. That Africa will every day that goes by the continent of Africa will be more and more important.

1:42:00And so I don't feel like the mainstream media covers enough of like how great of a job China has done in Very similar to what America did around the whole world. So what America did from you know 1920 to 2000 really was able to Influence and infrastructure so many parts of the world the English language Like why do we all talk English? You know between the UK and the US and so you know, I think that's fascinating. I think about that that. You know, I think, but I actually, I wonder if you asked this question because of what I just said, I believe what the media has wrong and what has society has wrong about social media is they think it's changed us.

1:42:41And I believe that social media has exposed us. And I think the only way, an alcoholic, the only way, an abusive spouse, the only way someone that's really struggling with something dark can actually fix it is the day he or she says, I am. And then they start the process of fixing it, right? I am not. By the way, I did this on a plane at 30 and a half years old in Houston in this great state of Texas. My head on the window, 30 and a half years old. I use a half because I'm 11 years old. And I say, I'm going to die before 100 if I don't start taking care of myself. What were you doing? I just wasn't exercising or eating well and I could feel it and I said when I'm 40 I'm going to start taking care of myself and by the time that's literally what I said to myself and by the time I landed in New York three hours later I Said my waiting to 40 and I called Mike Vakanti who was my last trainer that I only showed up three times at a 14 sessions paid for a mall It's a Mike.

1:43:47Do you know a young person that can travel with me because I've real I've also figured out what I need I need a babysitter. I'm very accountable to others to my family to my toys. I'm good, but to myself I'm like, huh, what up bro? You know what I'm so me too. And he said, what about me? And I literally worked out with him this morning 10 years later on he's moved him in a soda now. He doesn't travel me full time. But he was on my FaceTime this morning in the hotel in Austin and we worked out and it changed my life. But I knew it for a decade. The first inclinings of 38 was 28. But it took me 10 years of subconscious and conscious talk with myself to finally have the tipping point moment.

1:44:27I believe a lot of people know that I'm right that social media has exposed us, not changed us, but we're not there yet, collectively as 8 billion people. But when we get there, we will look back in 70 years as social media on top of the internet was a great thing that happened to man. It just was super painful for 25 years getting to the next place. I wonder how much of the reticence we have around not blaming social media for the way that we behave is that without social media we need to accept that fact. I love you so much. Accountability is the most interesting conversation on earth right now.

1:45:06We have become obsessed with fingers. Trump sucks, Biden sucks, America sucks, China sucks, my mom sucks, my dad sucks, my spouse sucks, my boss sucks, Everyone sucks but you. Everyone sucks but you. Our lack of accountability on the back of atrociously bad parenting that was well intended. Last 30 to 40 years, we over -cuddled kids. We made eighth place trophies. We did a bunch of dumb shit. We became friends with our kids, not parents that are friendly to our kids. We've lost our way. It was well -intended. I have no judgment as a parent myself. It's impossible. It is the artist. However, it still is true.

1:45:49And we have become incredible. Of course, we blame everybody. We, this, we so many of us grew up with parents that fought our fights. They ran to the school and yelled at the teacher. How concerning you about the relationship between teenagers and young kids and their use of social media? I'm concerned if they have parents that didn't create boundaries and create itself a steam. So I'm concerned about the most insecure. But I also see it another way that people don't see it the 14 year old that is getting bullied online Was also the 14 year old that was get bullied at school when I was growing up I saw all of them but they had no outlet the 14 year old today that's getting bullied online can move from Tik Tok and Delete it and start a twitch stream and hang out with 12 new friends playing a new game and create a beautiful life for themselves I see that all the time The kid that I was bullied, that I saw bullied, I'm thinking about one kid right now in Ethel Hotpok Middle School in Asbury, New Jersey in 1989, when I think about him and then what he did in North -Hundredin because I watched him for those four years, he had no outlet.

1:46:54There was no internet. He was the most lonely. We have decided that this is bad when it's good. kids. These kids can find their friends in other places on fortnight. Do you know many kids that I know that are not socially winning in school or winning on fortnight with other kids? Why are we not focusing on that? The reason we're not focusing on that is something atrocious happened. World leaders in politics have become incredibly not -mode noble. The way that politicians around the world talk to each other is more similar to the way fifth graders talk to each other than grownups. The lack of civility in our society by world leaders is extraordinary.

1:47:42I mean, it's insanity. It's not statesmen like. You know what's so funny? It's not even human like. Thank you, my brother. statesmen like I can deal with that. Just go even look at like five minutes ago. Just go look at George Bush. Two, not even one. That's five minutes ago. We have completely on both sides of the aisle on the bricks alliance and the US and NATO. Everyone's a piece of shit. And I say that with respect, but I say it because they've earned it. They do not speak in America as a cesspool. American in politicians for the way they talk to each other. It's made everyone feel bad. It's just angst.

1:48:26Fear is being peddled on us at scale. It's super juvenile, you know, I'm not to say that it's juvenile. I'm not to say that the UK is that much better, but if you're thinking these are the people that are supposed to be the leaders of the country, they're the ones that are supposed to be behaving in the most. Of course, nobody feels good. And then you know what trickles down, then teachers do it, then parents do it. Well, it's legitimated by the people that are in charge. That's right. And even if you know, you can say that in the same breath as having the rebellious American spirit and saying I am not beholden to anybody.

1:48:57I don't agree with most things that are accepted, but there's a way to do it. I don't, I may not agree with you, but I don't think you're a piece of shit and deserve to die. The fuck's a matter with people. Talk to me about the future of Pickleball. You know, I found love with Pickleball here. The video back to videoing everything. It's pretty cool. I did a daily V. It's probably six years old. It was me and Ryan Harwood playing with Andre Agassian and Irodic here in Austin, Texas. You know, pickleball, eSports, pedale, darts, tag. There's a world tag league. I'm very fascinated by sports in this way.

1:49:38The first Super Bowl did not sell out the tickets to the game. couldn't sell it out. The 1982 NBA Finals, one of the games was not even aired live in America. It was on tape delay. UFC, I watched UFC one with my high school college buddies was like human cage fighting and would never make it another year. It was going to be banned in our parents. Like, of course, we watch it because our parents didn't want us to watch it. I'm fascinated by how sports emerge and how when I think about pickleball and why I like it, tennis didn't exist all the time. Ping pong didn't exist all the time. I don't like the establishment so much and I like consumer behavior and the truth and what people like.

1:50:26So the future pickleball is bright -ish. It's early. It could fall off. But slam ball and all this other stuff. I know just like UFC in a 30 year window went from non -existent to I just watched you have C 300 and Max's knockout of Justin is one of the five best moments I've ever seen in sports and I'm sad because I love I love him but you have see because I love all these dudes so much and they bash each you know I don't it's not like wrestling wrestling is fun like I love much I mean cold cold again like they're like UFC with me heavy because literally 93 .7 % of these guys and gals, I adore who they are outside the cage, who they are in the cage.

1:51:07It was iconic and I'll be honest with you and everyone's going ham on it. Every moment I'm like, man, I just have a lot of love for Justin, you know what I mean? And I know Justin, I don't know him. I know Justin is such a beast. I'm sure he, like, you know, he's, I mean, he did that to dust it. But it is what it is. But the future pickle ball, I'll go macro on it. I have no idea where it plays out. I hope it's a huge league because obviously I own a team in Jersey Fives, which means a lot to me. If you go to my Instagram, Gary Vee, you can see my first pinned post. You'll see why the number five means so much to me.

1:51:43Why name my pickleball team after it? 76ers. Now I hate because the next appointment first round the Fives. But I know in 30 years, you and I will be at a dinner. And I know there'll be a new sport that none of us see back to media, what it's not covering. that has the complete attention of the world. Is the coolest thing sitting there with basketball and proper football and American football and UFC. And I'll be like, hey, and for some reason my brain will recall this micro moment. I'll be like, remember, you remember? I called it. Remember? And but I didn't call it. It's just history. There's always gonna be a new sport every 30, 50 years that comes along.

1:52:20And I want, you know, eSport seems very real, but there's so many different games. Like what's it gonna be? VR will be real. VR is a good bet. Look, look, it's hard to see a world in 30 years out that VR isn't a big part of our lives. We're starting to see the previews now with Apple and meta, like, and it's going to work. Like it's just like Zoom's worked. Zoom's changed the world. Private aviation with Zoom have created a complete new framework. I mean, the US government's going to have to figure out tax law because of Zoom and private aviation. It's not sustainable. States are gonna have to compete with each other in a way that is like really intense.

1:52:56Civil war like, you know? Gary V. Ladies and gentlemen, Gary, I appreciate you. Your energy is very infectious. I really, really was looking forward to speaking to you. And I like the fact that you're positive about the future. I also think to kind of summarize what I've learned, the only other person that I know that's similar to yourself is Alex Homozi. And he is someone for whom and play and work the same thing. And that's the fundamental misunderstanding that people have, that if they realize that what you do for work is what you do for fun, that the work and fun question, the life balance question goes out of the window.

1:53:29And life balance questions out the window for everyone, because like the concept of bearing your work for 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years is not a good concept. I love people like I work nine to five, but I have like great work life balance. I'm like, you sure don't, you hate 40 hours a week. Hell yeah. Where should people go? They want to pick up the book, they want to keep in touch with all the stuff that you're doing? At this, you know what? Knock on wood. At this point, I have a very good feeling that everybody can find it if they want to. Hell yeah, Gary, I appreciate it. Cheers. And Doug, here we have the Lemo Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their core insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual.

1:54:14Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally Doug. Uh, Lemoo? Is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need at LibertyMutual .com. Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings very underwritten by Liberty Mutual and Churns Company and Affiliates excludes Massachusetts.