#863 - Matthew McConaughey - The Hidden Art Of Reinventing Yourself

26:04Maybe it's not banging your head on the wall. Maybe it's backing up and seeing, oh, I got a key in my pocket that unlocks the door. or I'm trying to have been bloody in my skull along over, banging and banging into it. I do wonder why I like being serious. I'm serious about the things I do. I'm serious about this podcast as you might be able to tell by the fact we've renovated in Taiwan. But there is something that you can take that too far. The seriousness can become a kind of rigidity as opposed to being dynamically persistent. Taking things too seriously, not swaying in the breeze. Right. But presuming that you like the things you do and you want to keep doing them, the less robust and flexible you are, the more likely you are to break in those ways.

26:51And I think that humor is a lovely bit of ballast that helps to balance that out. I've, I've afraid it this way, be very serious about since humor. Be very serious about comedy. I'm extremely serious about comedy. And I, I, you know, do I take myself seriously? Yes. But also take seriously the shit I don't, do I want to know everything? Yeah. But I also take seriously the shit I, that I don't know and go, be serious about that you don't know that. Be serious about that this is frickin' funny or at least it's gonna be. So I try to take the comedy seriously. So I think we can take since a humor seriously and we don't have to create a new category of going, and oh, I need to be lighthearted or more careless and carefree, we can just care more maybe about the validity of a good sense of humor.

27:42Yeah. You know, instead of it being a relief, let me let go of the pressure here. Oh, let me, it's not, it's almost like it's not another bucket. It's in the same bucket of commitment and persistence and endurance. And I'm just going to talk about that balance between good times and bad times and the lessons that we take from each. Herde quote recently that said, every man knows reflection and introspection when he's at his lowest. Bad times, you can't do anything other than wallow in retrospective assessment. But one of my favorite things I've learned from you is when things are going well, given that that's presumably what you want to have more of, maybe worth deconstructing that.

28:33Yes. I wish I could more, and I think more of us could all deconstruct our assets. There's a, we, happiness, you can't guarantee it, but there is a science to satisfaction. There, you can look at habits that engineered less pain in your life. Maybe more pleasure, but at least less pain. And that's a win.

29:03I try to deconstruct, look, I don't, do I write it, did I use to write as much? Look at anybody who's ever kept a diary. When what's the old sort of nostalgic idea of a diary? You go there when you're in pain and you share thoughts that you don't wanna share it to anyone else of those reflection. And I did used for some reason, I don't know why, but would force myself to write every day, no matter how happy I was. And I didn't know a lot of times, I wanna go write when I was happy, because I was like, no, I don't need to write it. I don't need to become conscious of it. I'm having too much fun.

29:35It's getting on the way. Come on, I'm doing it. It's living, it's happening. But, and in writing greenlights, when I went back, that's a lot of the consistencies that I found that I wrote when things were going well, that I was taking some, for some reason, taking time to go, can I, can I try and bottle? some science here to why things are going well. And I did find consistencies who I was hanging out with at night, what I was drinking, what bar I was at, what food I was drinking, how exercise, preparation for work, for school. And I found things I was like, you're really happy in the segment of your life.

30:16Let's go back and look at what you're doing. Oh, man, I had augmenting those scrolls. I was on them every day. I had some discipline where I was checking it with myself. Oh, you were going to church on Sundays. You were, you were given, you were, you were, you were saying thank you God before you at the bed each night. You were appreciating more. You were pointing out you beautiful things and not taking them for granted until I found a list of things and I'm like, and when I get off track, I try to remind myself, you've been slacking on some of those. And I could pull it off. I've evolved. I got different ways.

30:49I get away with some now, but you know, I've definitely found consistencies and I think we all have them if we just notate them along the way that they're not by accident. Because we sure as hell deconstruct the reasons when we're in the funk and we don't believe they're by accident, we can take ourselves to behind the woodshed and show ourselves exactly why we're guilty for every reasoning, condemn ourselves for every We damn reason we got to that spot. Yeah. Well, let's, if we're going to do that, I just say, let's, let's cheers. Let's have a cheers on the way for other things that will work for when we have shit going right.

31:32Also knowing that it's not forever, that it will, we will have them out in the climate shortly. Isn't it interesting so much of content that people like to consume books, podcasts, or the biographies memoirs is deconstructing the success of others. So we'll happily dissect success in other people. Right. And yet only dissect failure in ourselves. This odd asymmetry. Yeah, well, we bestow all of the glory. Right. On those people, well done. And I must find out how to do it more. Even if it doesn't fit me, even if there are different constitution, different background, different time. For me, I'll focus on the negatives.

32:12Right. There's a really interesting stat around the likelihood of you ensuring that your dog completes a course of antibiotics is about 95 % the likelihood that you ensure that you will keep complete a course of antibiotics is about 50%. So we're prepared to look after an animal twice as well as ourselves. I was a rotten note the other day man. What does that say on the back of your phone? Um, Stika, choose to shine. Very cool. My daughter gave me that. Yeah. I wrote the other day and then most of what I do is I use this notes app, right? And I wrote the other day, um, uh, where is it? It was on that note.

32:56I was like, what, what's my best advice I need to give myself right now is listen to my own damn advice. Yeah. And it followed that up with, where is it? Yeah. Trying to live with less gravity and more backbone is a salty task. What's that mean to you? Kind of live lighter with less gravity. Live lighter, not take certain things so seriously, but still have the principle backbone because I'm getting older. We get older and the black and white turn to gray, and then there's a great word, compromise, we all say, which is such a mature thing to do. And then all of a sudden, we let things slide and then when we start going, well, change will happen.

33:41Hey, change is inevitable. Let change happen. And I'm not ready. That's part of getting old, I think, not just getting older, same with cynicism. It's a disease of getting too old. And I'm not ready to... I don't want to be ready to give up certain things I'm going, no, man, the beauty of ignorance, those things that we believed in. I've got to believe so many things because of my ignorance. I'd be dead 14 times in this life if I wouldn't have been ignorant of the situation I was at. And so, yeah, I, you know, not knowing or knowing what we know. It's a,

34:31anyway, yeah, it's it's more backbone to hold on and be principled what I stand for, or what I stand against when it becomes easier and easier to just go with the flow. And I'm not ready to go, let's just go with the flow. I just wanna, I don't wanna pick the wrong battles. I'm trying to be discerning and not picking the wrong fights cause I like picking fights and going after challenges. But I'm in a fight, I'm kinda like, man, it's tough duty to win the fair fights. And there's a lot of unfair fights out there. And why do I wanna spend my time I got 20 hours a pick and unfair fight when I'm gonna bust in my ass to win the fairwood.

35:09Well also picking fights with yourself. You know you hinted just there at the difficulty of a negative inner voice. You know you take things seriously, you care about what you're doing. You want to achieve things in this world which means that you need to have high standards, you need to pause it an ideal. But as soon as you pause it an ideal you then begin to to compare yourself to that ideal and often you find yourself lacking because it's a fucking ideal. Yep. I think it's why a lot of relationships don't work. We make her a Wonder Woman and she makes us Superman and neither one is gonna live up to it.

35:43And that we've got that bulb, that honeymoon bulb turned up to 100 watts and honeymoon's over. We're trying to deal with some real, just some real base stuff. Let's leave it 20 watts and we're just lit but we're not just feverishly superhuman. And I think a lot of us just purport that on someone else and they can't live up to them and it's not being fair to them. And then they do the same to us and we both walk away going, I underwhelmed. Do you know the idea of the Michelangelo effect? Have you heard of this? Awesome. So, the Michelangelo effect describes a situation in a relationship, friendship or intimate partnership where each partner sees the best in the other and tries to help bring that out.

36:26So the sum of the parts is greater than it is individually. And the reason I love it is why it's called the Michelangelo effect. So the block of marble that David was carved from had been attempted by a number of other sculptors previously. Huge monstrous thing. If you've ever seen David in person, ginormous. People can't, and when you're looking up as well with that angle on the plinth, even bigger, the previous sculptures had attempted and failed, but Michelangelo saw inside of the marble what was David, right? He just needed to get away all of the things that weren't. I love that idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

37:05I think in life you want to be finding people that believe in you more than you believe in you. That hold you to higher standards. I think that's the definition of a good friend. I think that's the definition of a good partner. He's a good definition of a good husband, wife. You know, they remind us of the best of ourselves. It's shine that light and remind us because we do, I know I do. It gets, I put the blinds on it and I don't see it. A lot of times I'll be reminded. This has always been a thing for me.

37:41And I don't know how this correlates but I've never been as good in my dreams as I am in real life. I never win the day, get the girl, ace the test, I can perform in my dreams. I never have, never have, as well as I will in real life. Think I'm the same. And I'll get, and I'll be, I guess what I'm saying is I'll be, I'll pull something off. I'm like, everyone see that? And my friends are like, like no shit. That's you bro. What's the biggie? You know what I mean? It's kind of what I like about living in Austin, Texas. They're not really impressed with shit that I pull off. They were, thought it was cool.

38:27I want an Oscar, but they were like, well no shit. You know what I was kind of like, oh. All right, yeah, thank you man. That's, you know, and that's what, that's what friends will do in a way. Loved ones will do that and be like, yeah, there you are. It comes back to that it's so much easier to be supportive and gentle of other people than of ourselves. You know, you will happily bestow this sort of gentle reassuring pat on the shoulder when somebody succeeds or falls short when they try their best. Right. Yet, given the fact that you tried your best, you give yourself a kick in the dick on the way out of the door and a harsh word to follow you.

39:08Yeah, what do you think about when you do succeed? And a lot of people go, oh, that's nothing.

39:23I prescribed it, I think we should take some time to be able to look in the mirror and own that thing that we pulled off and go, good job, that's what you want to, to what you got. At the same time, be able to, as we do more often, look in the mirror when we fail and go, bogey, you do not want to let off. You know what I mean? But I mean, it's kind of, big of an ownership idea, the fail or the gain ownership being really important. And I'm a fan of the ego, I wish people, someone said this to me before. Look, oh, this, this, this, this, a queen said this. It came off the cow. I didn't even think about it.

40:12She was like, ah, tell me, not that you're so full of yourself. And I, with that thinking, I was like, well, who else am I supposed to be full of? That's a good line. And I stopped that, and I was like, that's exactly what I meant. I went wrote that down. I wish more people were more full of themselves. Not in the arrogant way. I don't talk about it. a healthy ego to understand and I understand ego's difference between I and me, me's the objective, but to know the I, I wish more people. I wish we were more full of ourselves. I wish more people in the world were more full of themselves. I think part of the challenges in life is a lot of us are running around half asking ourselves, half fooling ourselves, not full of ourselves, not studying ourselves enough, not holding ourselves to task enough, not patting our own self on the back when we do get what we want enough, not Cracking our own whip on our backside when we do get out of line even though we knew better.

41:03I wish we were more full of ourselves that way The guy that was sat there yesterday Dwayne I asked him Something not too dissimilar about self -esteem. He took a little while. He said I Like me I'd buy me a beer I thought that's so fucking great. Yeah, man. I'd buy me a beer. I'd buy me a beer. Hey, he's shaking hands with himself, you know? And, sweet man. I got plenty of times where I was sure that I'm the last guy I went out of a beer with. I'm happy to say I got some times where I'm like, I appreciate drinks alone.

41:47You know what I mean? I mean, yeah, it'd be nice. Would that be not more than nice? Is a better word than nice, but if, go, go, try to be today someone you wanna have a beer with. It's a pretty good easy way, pretty good bumper sticker. You know what I mean? Could have been in the book. Yeah. Talk to me about the non deserving complex. Yeah. It's feel similar. Yeah. So,

42:14it definitely, And I think it's called in their term impostor syndrome or something like that. When I got famous off of time to kill, I had more people saying I love you and I'd only said that like four times in my life to four people and I was like, wow. This is they mean it. You know, the red carpets in caviar, I started to get that thing. Why me? Why me? There's other people that deserve this more than me. And that's back when I was using the word deserve, which I'm not the biggest fan of now. I prefer earn. But I didn't feel like I deserved it in the big scheme of things. It was, I think it's a, we have to, what's dangerous about it, I think it's court.

43:11It's a coping mechanism, but it's a false humility. Yep, yep, I understand. It's like, it's almost arrogant, think that you did all that, even, you know, it's almost like guilt as an arrogant thing, like who makes you the judge and jury of you on that? Who, you know, it's like saying, being very arrogant and you go, oh no, no, no, not me, I shouldn't have that. It does help you deal when it's stimulus that the world's brand new and coming on. It helps you back up because you don't want to take any more arrows because you're feeling it all as arrows. I sure felt that when I first got famous. Talk about all the options and yeses, brand new yeses for me in the world.

44:00I pushed against it and I even had clumsy times where I got ugly just to counter it. Like I said, I brought the book, attribute myself running downhill. I trip myself because I felt like, man, things are going too well. I need a bloody nose. Bam! I'll give myself one. Now I feel more. Okay, now I'm where I'm supposed to be. Just part of that come with the fact that I grew up in a middle class, blue collar family, and you value text of 12 ,000 people from the tattoos. Like you get out there and you earn, you break a sweat, probably. All right. I wouldn't feel so much stuff was coming at me. And I didn't feel like I'd broken a sweat to get it.

44:36I was having fun what I did and I was couldn't give myself enough credit for maybe he's going you're good at what you're doing. And I was looking for the proverbial sweat I was looking for the where's the exhaustion of a full working day right actually I drew blood man had did it I made it through. Dude the pureton work ethic runs strong I used to struggle at run nightclubs for a long time and. There was a period where I didn't miss a single saturday which was a big event. for 204 Saturdays in a row. And I would go on holiday. The holidays I was having, you know, I'm 22 to 26, something like that.

45:15So prime young guy territory. And I'd go on holiday from a Sunday morning until a Thursday evening, and then make sure that I was back in the northeast of the UK. Why'd you make sure you got back on the Saturday night? Because I couldn't bear to have success without having blood for it. Okay. Because if it... There was so many hoops I had to jump through in order for things for me to get a pat on the back. I had to go well because if it went badly, I was less. But not only did it have to go well, I had to suffer in service of it going well. Yeah. Because if it went well but came easily, that was also somehow lesser.

45:53Like for me, I felt like I was just in almost. Yes. Not a disease, but more of a sin. I was like, I didn't pay a penny, Sarah, man. I didn't give an enough tie. I didn't like it break the verbal sweat draw the blood to earn that thing. You got him getting all this Didn't what neighborhood look at the eye didn't feel it needed things to feel I also needed At that time anonymity which I lost yeah, and I think everyone needs an anonymous soul and I had lost mine and I didn't know What was up down left to right I hand I got through stuff if I looked back at my interviews the first two years I got famous.

46:33I bet you they're so damn boring because my two rules would be a gentleman and don't lie. Two pretty boring rules, if that's only what you're going in for and you're creative and you got a colorful life, but I would just repeat it, stay down the line. It wasn't until later on that was like, oh man, I trust myself enough. I believe myself enough to share how I feel about things. Yeah, privacy is one of the privileges that people have born with that they don't realize until they've lost it. Right. And this has been a little bit of a trajectory that I'm starting to dip my toe into over the last few years as well.

47:07Of loss of privacy, loss of privacy, loss of increased scrutiny, right? Sense of eyeballs and even, you know, micro niche degenerate version of proper fame, but still this sort of sense of vigilance being watched in some way or another. And yeah, it's one of those odd inverted privileges. Most people think about privileges, something that is bestowed upon you after you have done X, Y, and Z. But this is one of those things that, as you tend to go on the trajectory, most people want to go on, it's something that gets derogated, something that you lose. Sure. And you, people have, you skipped the salutations of, hi, how you doing?

47:53What's your name? People have bio on you. They have an idea an opinion for you before you ask for it Sometimes it's hyperbole to the awesome to overly all exaggerated awesome sometimes it's well below And you walk outside you don't even have to talk to the world you know you feel eyes You'd see how people move towards you or move away from you or what you catch at all your periphery and you start going They I know what I know what they think And maybe that's false. It feels a lot better when it's maybe false, but to the, oh, they even think I'm better than them. They think I did better than I did.

48:36But still just consulting either way. Either way, it's all fountains because it's not on parts why I headed out to Peru after I got famous, took the 22 day backpack trip. I, and I remember writing down, I said, I need to go test my who I am, my character. on people who know me as a stranger. And when I left, the hugs in the, after 20 days, the hugs and the tears of the strain, no longer strangers up between two days, but the hugs and the tears were coming from people that only knew me as a guy named Matthew, and that's it who showed up and met me from there. No biography of me, had no idea of us famous, no idea what was in the movies, and 22 days later, 22 days later, their weeping tears of glit -glid -glid -and -ist and sadness saying goodbye to me.

49:24That gave me trust magnet. I was like, I got it. I did this. I'm still there. I got it. I can still fix a tire. I don't have to, I don't have to, this whole thing isn't just triple A coming to fix the car. You know, okay. It was, it was, that was, I needed that. It gave me a lot of confidence come back to Hollywood and look a lot of the, what I was deemed in excess, look at in the eye and go, I get it. I get it. I know, I earned getting here. I'm still, I still, I got the goods. All of this I may not have earned that. I didn't even ask for a lot of this, but I know I got myself here. Okay. In other news, this episode is brought to you by Skims.

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50:30Right now you can shop Skims menswear by going to the link in the description below or heading to skims .com. That's skimms .com. Fastball. Did you ever have a lonely chapter during your trajectory? I was actually looking back, I was sad, I did. I mean, look, I had some wonderfully fun and healthy and honest single years that That became sort of revolutions. That became sort of structurally transient. It was fun. State on the surface purposefully, I kept it there. They kept it there.

51:26But I was still, you know, have many lonely nights when a man lays his head on the pillow, no matter who was in the bed, I was sleeping with me. And felt like many times I was in neutral. Didn't have something that I was building towards and chasing relationship wise, even career wise. At that time. I got through it fine. I didn't go overboard and over and dulled and didn't get dangerous with my health or anyone else's.

52:06Mainly because if I did get to if I get the blues, I'd be like, open your eyes, bro, look around, man. You kidding me? Take your time. And so, you know, I would say ultimately, I was lonely in that time, because I knew it was a stop, not a stay. And I knew I wanted more career relationships, et cetera. But I wasn't really fully committed. I wouldn't, it wasn't, it didn't have to, maybe the, the, the wherewithal, the identity to go actually chasing go. I know what I want. I want to, I want to live a way to attract that. I did try and go, did I have time where I tried to go find it? But as I talked about in the book, I mean, I had time where I was every red light who's over there, produce section, who's over there?

52:53Every party, who's over there, you know, looking forward, though one, and once I was like, uh -huh. I had that great dream of the 88 year old bachelor that I was with all the kids showing up. But that dream gave me grace, man, because I quit looking for that one. I did start acting like someone though, my target drew the arrow. I started acting like someone who had a wear with all and a peace of mind with myself, not needing someone to fulfill that drew her to me that I didn't have before that dream. You've had a front row seat to some variety of rhythms of marriages. The parents, yours. What have you learned about choosing a good partner?

53:40Oh. Well, I'm still learning, but...

53:56Friends first, I mean, the Camille and I become friends first, no, we wouldn't became lovers pretty quickly, but I was the things I respected about her and saw that she had were things that I valued in a close friend. someone who respected their past, someone who had a great sense of humor, but was never gonna lie to put themselves to get what they wanted in front of me or take advantage of me. Someone who, you know, was impressed with who I was much more than they were impressed with what I did. Someone who very quickly saw the best in me and was like, I like that. I see some more of that, you know, and watered that side of me.

54:42So we talked about earlier, see some more of that. Let me set thing, let me put some more fuel on that fire. So you can even be more of that. Why not be all of that, you know? Then if you're going to get together, I think this is a Susan Sarand line when she was married to, which is named Tim. It was Susan Sarand, I married to years ago, an entire room of people shaking the heads. Great actor, Shalshink Redemption, Tim Robbins. There we go. They had a line that said that we have similar moral bottom line. It's always stuck with me. Are you going to partner with someone, especially if we're going to have family, I think?

55:25Make sure you got a similar moral bottom line because in look, Camille and I are going through new challenges now because we have teenagers. are more bottom line and do's and don'ts and what's accepted and what we wouldn't accept has been pretty part and parcel up until now. Teens are getting like, well I'm a little loose over here. Yeah, let them go. Let them go get that scar. Let them go get their heart broke. Whatever that is, let them go try it out and fail or succeed. Let them go negotiate free play. She's a little more and so we're her and I are working on that balance right now. And it's a new balance, having teenagers as they're getting there independent, but having a similar moral bottom line, you know, connected to bringing out the best and the partners is having some of you are a fan of and that they're a fan of you.

56:19You call each other on your shit or you don't have to call it because it looks as enough and you're like, yeah, I know. Yeah. That was me, Bogey, you know, or yeah, I got away with that one again no more cut that out. Um, and then what I'm learning now trying to learn is that Seems we're essentially all the person that for me now, I think I'm essentially the same person I was I was 19 years ago. You know, it seems to me the same person I was when I was eight, 50 or one. But our values systems reorder as we grow independently and as a couple, your value system changes for every parent when they become a parent for what's important in their life.

57:09So you re, you're moving things different places on the chart and the number one spot, the two spot and three spot. But to understand that it also happens with with with us as individuals and going that that we do change and how do we, even by being essentially the same person that we fell in love with, we still need room to change along the way and go through things that may seem inconsistent with who, the DNA of why we fell in love with that person or what do we love well, who someone was, but no, there's still essentially that, but give them room to change, give them room to change. Also the, the, the, the, I think it's the springstein line, you know, you don't, but about sometimes you're running and the other one's walking.

57:56And it's okay to be ahead, but don't, don't lose sight. Don't get so far ahead that you leave your mate, lost back there going, you know, sometimes, you know, somebody's real healthy. the other ones on IR. Oh, we're still on the same team. That takes patience by the one who's healthy and takes persistence by the one who's on IR. But you gotta wait up to hold that hand to go, we're still doing this together, even though maybe in this zone right now in my life, I'm flying and you're walking. So certain things that I find out, well, she's flying and I'm walking, you know? And so navigating that and how we change as we grow up and measuring that against Who we initially fell for in the first place and see and well they are still that But of course it changed how I've changed I want to say you know and a lot of times I know I we say it.

58:53I know I said we've changed What heaven yeah, I've changed I'd hope so You know and doing that with a partner is part of the work, I think, of a relationship. Sort of talking about transformations, trajectories, pivots, changes, let's escape Hollywood and go to South America and see what's going on over there. Let's escape singlehood pivot into a married, pivot into family from dyads to triad to so on. I'm fascinated by the aggressive pivot that you made between different movie categories. And that requires, I think, a lot of courage and hope and self -belief and faith in order to do, to let go of something good for the chance that something that you think could be great.

59:57Yeah. I think that's something that a lot of people wish that they had a little bit more fuelful. It was a big risk. It was a big chance and it was no guarantee return ticket. It was a one way ticket possibly to I'm a head coach at high school football to this day. One way ticket to a dead end or to something new. But one way ticket to a dead end in Hollywood is an actor for sure. Or, look, it's no coincidence that at that time to have the courage to make that decision,

1:00:33I did have really cool things going on in my life. I'd fall in love with Camilla, she'd just become pregnant with her first child. That gave me some significance of like, ah, that's what I've always wanted to be. It's a father. Here we go. If I stick with it, this will give me a home base to feel secure in even though I'm stepping away from what has made me give me significance for so many years and decades in my life. Having her to sit there as much as I knew it was the right decision and it was a 3 a .m. decision in my own soul. She's always been very good with me back going and I say it out loud and we're going to do here's what we're going to if we're doing this, she's the one that said, this could be dry for who knows how long.

1:01:22You may not get work ever again, but if we're gonna do this, I'll be here by your side and we're doing it together and there's no going back. There's no, we're not gonna get nerves at the go -align. If we don't know where the go -align, we're not gonna get down the line and go, oh, a pool parachute. Even if it's a full $3 million parachute. Even if it's $14 million parachute. Even if it doesn't work out and you become a teacher or you go become a lawyer again, whatever, this way. So making that a choice that was inevitable, that there was no pull in the parachute on, sheers hell helped with the endurance of me being away for what was 20 months.

1:02:00I learned a lot of endurance in that year in Australia though. Same way, that gave me a lot very thick skin for enduring something. So that 20 months was really hard. And I've said it before that proverbial bottle on the shelf was looking better and better earlier in the day as time went on. I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, more times could I work in the damn garden, man, I'm like, I'm not a gardener for life. I like this, but I gotta, I gotta come on, man. Um, but she helped me stay steady. I stayed steady. My faith helped me stay steady. I did have a real belief whether I was tricking myself or not that there's, there's a bigger pot of gold for me on the other side of this.

1:02:37If I just out and jur it, if I jet out and jur this image and it became a little like the year in Australia, I started, I got, I started to gain pride and honor with the longer the penance went on and being without what I wanted. And I started to be like, well, I'm definitely backing out now, man. I'm six months in. It turns into momentum all over the year. I'm like, I'm a year in, man. This is getting good. Okay. Come on. And out of the blue, 20 months later, I've been gone long enough to become a new good idea. Where's McConnell? I don't know, hey, plus he said no to that $14 .5 million offer three months ago.

1:03:16And I guarantee that tells some people in Hollywood, what's this sum of stuff to? You don't say no to $14 .5 million off. It was way the offer's too big to get out. And he said, no, no, someone does that. You get a little more attracted to him. What this is, this is on something. He's got his own programming. He's playing offense on something. He's not just regressing. And I think that also sent a bit of a signal. It's my hunch through Hollywood. And then the fact that it was just honestly 20 months, almost two years later, where's my car? We haven't seen him in a romcom. We haven't seen him on the beach shirtless.

1:03:53Where is he? He hadn't shown up in front of our faces. I don't even know what he's doing. He wouldn't know he's doing. Do you fear, or did you fear not being sufficiently prolific, they cannot be sufficiently sort of a front of stage, keeping your name out there. What if somebody else takes that place of me? What if I become irrelevant? What if people forget? I didn't have any fear of anyone taking the place because my place at that time was rom -com king. And I was sure I was like, I'm done enough of those right now. I don't need another one of those right now. I don't want another one of those right now.

1:04:28If someone steps in and take the place, rob a. I always like to say I took the baton from Hugh Grant And then I had my time, I was like, who do you think you threw it to? I don't know, the romcoms are not, they're definitely not as healthy of a genre now as they were then. We were rolling in the romcoms. They were like, can't miss her, man. They're medium budget, 30, 35 mil. So the studio's not blowing their wallet on the budget. They come out, they make good money. Studios make good money. I don't know, all of them kind of worked. Even the ones that didn't work as well kind of worked. Yeah, you know?

1:05:00Use potential audience, everybody can go see it. Repeat some Valentine's Day come on, you know, um, so I don't I don't know that did really hand it to I don't know Anyone's really jumped in that lane or if that lane's even Got to help wanted sign anymore, you know, um Did I feel the irrelevance sure I felt the unease of irrelevance I mean But then I got became irrelevant. I mean it got to the point where I knew I was irrelevant They got to the point where I remember my agent saying, I said, you heard anything because Matthew, I have it, heard your name in over two months. I was like, and you're my agent, you only have five clients, he goes, yeah.

1:05:43I've even heard your name. I'm like, that sounds pretty much like your relevance to me, bro. Okay. All right. But never, like I was shaky, but never was I gonna go. So, okay, I'll go back. Ripcold. I'll do it. Never was like a pull the parachute.

1:06:07And, you know, what if I didn't? What if that was calls never came? Would I regret that sitting here now? I don't, maybe I wouldn't be sitting here now. But I bet everything I got, there's no way I'd regret it. Whatever I'd be doing in my life right now, would have said this opened up, we'd start off the conversation with this. The things you don't get. I've given us, put us more in places where we are, where we find our own satisfaction, then the things that we do get in many ways. I mean, like I say, it's, you know, life's mystery going forward, the science looking back. When you look back, we go, we can all connect every single dot.

1:06:41It's mathematical, scientific, how we got to this table right here. We got plans for this afternoon, but we're not sure what's going to happen. So, everything looking back, it's all connected. if we go back and look at it. And there's a whole lot of, I thought that was the end. Well, it was the end, but it was the beginning of this thing. Or I caught that red light and therefore made me 60 seconds later to get to that cafe where I met that movie producer or that woman who became my wife or whatever that is. It don't make sense at the time, but we're looking back at all the science. In other news, this episode is brought to you by Shopify.

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1:07:53Best of all, their award -winning support is there to help you every step of the way. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout that we use at Newtonic, we shop if I. Right now, you can sign up for a $1 per month trial period by going to the link in the description below or heading to shopify .com slash modern wisdom or lowercase. That's shopify .com slash modern wisdom to upgrade your selling today. Is that quote about the ironic tragedy is that life has to be lived forward, but only makes sense in reverse. Yeah. Ironic tragedy. Who said that? I mean, what do you think about all the life, the ironic tragedy, life is pain.

1:08:36And it just is nothing but pain. but so if just if we can endure it, like my mom, I can't help. She's worn me down with her endurance of the her prescription on life. How old is she now? And she is the absolute proof of the value of denial if you really commit to it. Absolutely. Committed denialist. Committed denialist. And it's not an intellectual trick. There's no, oh, I'll, I'll intellect you deny it. So then I'll talk myself in tonight. I'm faking it until I make it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fade it completely. No, it didn't happen. No, mom, it didn't, no, it didn't. I've said it didn't. It didn't and she's not, you don't catch your in between the lines or off by herself, realizing like, oh, well, it did.

1:09:26No, it's done. Non -negotiably done. Her favorite word is yes. Well, I might think you're living so long. Well, I can't imagine not being here. Oh, that's, geez, oh man, that's pretty good. I really can't. I honestly cannot imagine not being here. So she's beaten two types of cancers on aspirin.

1:09:48And we're like, that's not making any sense. And we have to tie her up in all her to the doctor, the dermatologist, if you get something on her leg, because going to a doctor in her mind and recognition is recognition of possible sickness. So you go there, remove a cancer, take some cancer medicine, do you have cancer? No, I don't. And you wink and she does not wink. I don't, I don't, what? Anyway, if you're not following the suit, you don't believe it, next question. That's how she is and she's banned because she's not playing a trick. She's does it. It's a full on commitment to denial. And it's awesome.

1:10:31She would not prescribe to life is painful and you have to get there. She thinks it's the money she's very anti because she she's someone who like I said I think I touched on the book. She had a horrible motherhood mother and parent parental growth. She'd not know how to be a mother. How'd she become a great mother? By saying I'm doing the opposite of what that bitch did There's value to that of going well, I this sucked. I don't know how to do this but if I just do the opposite, dude, I love this idea. So I grew up in a very working class town, northeast of the UK, famous only for having the highest teen pregnancy rating in England.

1:11:10And then it lost that. So it didn't even have that anymore. And I think there's that idea of food deserts in America, where it's areas in which it's difficult to get good food. And I think that Stockton on Tees in the 90s was a role model desert, at least for me. So I wasn't around many people like the person that I wanted to be like. And at the time I think I was desperately looking like a thirsty man marched for water for somebody that would be that, but in retrospect, again, ironic. There were a lot of people around me that were people I didn't want to be. And I was able to plant flag poles in the ground that helped me to avoid the catastrophes and the tragedies that would have awaited me had I've done that.

1:12:00So I don't want his relationship with his family. Yeah. I don't want the way that he drinks in order to be able to deal with his emotions. I don't want the way that he speaks negatively about all situations. I don't like the way that. Yeah. I think much of life is avoiding pitfalls, not necessarily expediting successes. Yeah. The pitfalls can take you out of the game completely in one form or another. And yeah, I don't like dwelling on the negatives in that way, but also That's another version of alchemy that we were saying before. Hey, here's something that you think is useless or toxic or not yet not valuable And you've managed to turn it into something that benefited you it's the same reason why Teaching people lessons that you've gone through from tragedies traumas whatever in your life It's kind of like pointing at the thing that was bad and say you didn't get me I'm gonna make sure that you're not gonna get them either.

1:12:56Yeah, and even looking at the things that are bad and going, oh thank you, appreciate that. I mean the push off, you have established leverage rather than the create. You know, you're gonna lean into something, and you also need something to push off. The push off is what you're leaning into is that mystery going forward, right? That ironic challenge is that you have something to push off the, well, I don't know what I do want, but I do know I don't want that. You have leverage. Yes. Yes. It's there. So, I don't know. I mean, we can get into a big discussion on victimhood here as well, but I wrote about in Greenlight to about how, you know, we always say, well, who are you?

1:13:48You know what she's figured who you are. And we asked, I tried to ask my kids that now. Why would you know who you are? And a part of that who's helping me is Bob Dylan's line's like, I don't know what all this talk's about, who we are, man, we are all just create, what we create ourselves to be. And that gives me a little, oh, that's relaxing. But the, it's so much easier for you to figure out who you're not. And if you start eliminating the, who I'm not, by sheer mathematics, you end up moving towards who more of what feeds you and who you are. And it's a hell of a lot easier thing to go, how can I get rid of some bullshit in my life than it is to go, well, how do I go to my true self?

1:14:27Do I want to press the accelerator more quickly? Or do I want to take my foot off the fucking brake? Right, yeah. Yeah. And sit there and, because I'm banging my head here, I'm gonna eliminate some of that stuff. I wanna get some of those things out of the way that didn't have another hangover. I drank the same amount when I didn't, you don't usually have a hangover. Oh, maybe it was a conversation I was having. Maybe it was, you know, maybe it was the people I was hanging out with, those just clocking some of those things and eliminate them. Is it much easier place to start, you know? And maybe, maybe more, is it maybe more valuable?

1:15:08I mean, I don't know who always like to think that that the UFC champ or the boxing heavily champ that believes they are the greatest is more empowering than the one who's out for revenge. But man, the one out for revenge wins a lot of the times. And one who's pushing against, nope, no, I'm gonna get back at rage. Nothing gets more shit done than that emotion of rage. Yeah. We like to say no freedom and light is the one that carries it. Man, I don't know. that's maybe too evolved for us to really grab all the rage and anger and revenge are mighty powerful emotions. Yeah. Yeah. But get a lot of shit done.

1:15:48Yeah. Especially in the beginning, especially for a short period of time. I think when you, it's a potent fuel that's toxic in the long term. And I think that it's the sort of thing that you use to overcome the activation energy, especially the beginning of a thing. Right. I need something to kick me out. The chip on my shoulder from the kids that didn't believe me in school. The fact that I felt like I was mistreated or victimized or in some form there was something, some limitation placed on me. It's a pretty good fuel. That'll get you a long way. Yeah, but you do not want to be using that two, three, four decades down the line.

1:16:25Well, and you'll, what do you call yourself employed? Because you can't recognize your allies from your enemies. And you start taking that on your allies. We see it in relationship. She started taking it out on your mate. She started taking it out on your wife, your husband, your lover, and I'm an, I'm an ally, man. We're on the same team. But you're back to that non -deserving. No, I've got to bleed. No, I've got to win. I've got to get in. Now you, hey. Well, also, the lesson that you've taken is enemies are more functional motivating sources than allies. Right. Therefore, if I can make enemies out of allies, I will just find Lily Pad, Lily Pad, Lily Pad, I'll just keep jumping, jump, jump, jumping.

1:17:10Yeah, but that, like I think what you're saying is that that trajectory starts to go lateral thing now. But what have you got left? You've got an entire world filled with enemies or at least no allies. Right. And yeah, you know, as someone who used a chip on his shoulder for a good while to get some activation energy, I'm much prefer the version that I am now. My, me and a friend have three versions of ourselves that we think about. So we have dopamine Chris. We have serotonin Chris. We have cortisol Chris. And dopamine Chris is leaning. He's thinking about plays on the show and how magnificent and big it's gonna be in awards and cool, money and stuff like that.

1:17:50And cortisol Chris is seeing threats and anxiety. He's looking out for that ambient vigilance that I was saying before, he's on edge. Then serotonin chris has taken a microdose of magic mushrooms. He's playing pickable with his friends or he's lying under a tree looking up at the sky. I Want to spend as much time in serotonin chris as possible. You do. Yes. I want to spend as much time in serotonin chris as possible And I find myself a certain Chris magic mushrooms and hammock hanging with his buddies exactly. Yeah, I want to spend as much time in that as possible but That wouldn't have got me out that wouldn't have been the to escape velocity that I needed to be able to leave whatever atmosphere I was in.

1:18:30I needed to use these other, I needed to run away from a life that I didn't want and run toward one that I did. Needed to escape something that I feared, and I also needed to go towards something. But the real bliss is when you go off -loginal to both of those, which is, let me ask you this. So when you're serotonin chris, magic mushrooms with your buddies in the hammock, how long can you lay in that hammock before you get to? The imposter's the thing hey, I got to I got to go accomplish for me. It's it's going to accomplish something to have some sort of purpose. I've got a I'm still working on getting better on vacations.

1:19:13I'm much my wife knows that I'm much easier to get along with on vacation if I get a couple hours to write in the morning and get a workout in. Dude, I wish I could go two weeks with going, Hey man, whatever, but I get, I get antsy, I get edgy. I'm not present because I need a little, need a little time to go break a sweat mentally, physically. And then I can be, then man, the rest of the day, I'm great. I love this topic, I've been thinking about it so much recently. Type A people with type B problems, type B people with type A problems. Okay. So the insecure overachiever needs to learn how to line and the lazy person who's on the verge of bankruptcy needs David Goggin shouting in their face, right?

1:19:56Now the interesting thing is, because of culture and because of the way that people are perceived, a person who is overworked but outwardly very successful will always seem to be in a more preferable position than someone who's on the verge of bankruptcy and needs to get a Xbox, all right? So we gift more sympathy, because it seems charitable, right? It seems supportive to the person who, You just need to work harder. Think about what you have contributed to the world, which are movies. In every movie, the training montage of the down underdog is them working hard and learning to get upon time and be disciplined and so on and so forth.

1:20:34I don't know if any movies where a guy learns to log out of Slack at 6 p .m. and lie on a beach holiday. Right, how, how, like opulent and transactional and dopaminergic are you that you need to be taught how to chill out. You don't know this people out there that would kill to be in the position that you are. That's that's that's the dialogue right there. That's interesting. How about a how about a movie about the a low handicap movie for the type A that needs to learn how to show off slack and go hang in a hammock and pulls that off. And don't and don't ask permission to tell it. Don't ask for don't ask for boohoo's for the for the character.

1:21:13Just There's no one showing that. I mean, look, what do we do today? What are the things you probably know better than I do? There's a lot of, it's like, people got much more in the meditation, successful people got much more in the meditation. You brought one up earlier, psychosyllic even, is it psychosyllic now sort of, sort of non -voncard sort of hair, hey man, this is a way to do. Breathwork, cold plunge, sauna, a sound healing. Yeah. Now, how many of those are we going to look at in 10 years and go, that was a fad. How many of those are we going to go? That was a really cool discovery. Well, here's the vicious thing about those modalities that a lot of people, I call it productivity purgatory, which is the things that you do for fun.

1:21:59You only do in order to be able to service more productivity when you get back to it. So why do you do your breath work? not because it makes me feel good and I like to do breath work, but because I watched an Andrew Hubeman podcast episode that said that it allows me to work 15 % harder the next day. You go, no, no. Like your recovery modalities should be in service of themselves. Do you think this is a, if we're going to call it a sin or disease, I'm going to do that for stereotypical word? Do you think this is a sin or disease of the West? Because for instance, I'm in Italy. We're at this wonderful couple, older couple, and they were both like 80 and they were just, have a shit together, man.

1:22:39And the lady was a great, she was like, it's a great, great, she was, oh, I, I swim around the Tis Island each day. And then I swim there and my question was, how far do you swim? And she was like, what? I swim until I don't want to swim anymore. I was like, it was a very western idea. How far? How much time? She was like, I swim until I don't want to swim anymore. You wanted to quantify it. I was quantifying, I tracked it on Strava, right? You've got a spreadsheet for this. Do you have your ring? Or a ring on it. She was like, well, she was confused at my question. And I was like, ah, a beautiful stereotypical difference in a European thought and a Western thought.

1:23:23But it's similar to that. It is very, I mean, we were playing a friend's birthday earlier this year in Miami and there was a pickleball court. But we were playing, I like, good British bloke. We were playing sort of foot tennis instead. And I realized that we were playing to win. And I didn't want to play to win. That wasn't the energy. I was in dopamine, Chris, and I wanted to be in serotonin, Chris. So I said, why don't we change the rules of the game and work both teams separately, but together to try and make the most beautiful game that we can? I want to be doing trick shots. You want to set up the other side to do trick shots.

1:23:55Some of the guys were good football free -stylers, stuff like that. And the first response from my friend that came up with the serotonin dopamine chord dissolved thing, George. His first response was, yeah, and we can count them. And, oh, no. No, no, no. Let's keep the mathematics out of this man. And that's your lady swimming around. How long? How far? How many times? Yeah, yeah. What? Yeah. I'm taking this thought to my, I'm gonna play tennis for two hours when I leave here. And the girl I'm gonna hit with, as much as I can, I'll see if I could do it. I bet I can do it for two hours, but I'll see how long I can do it a little bit.

1:24:28I'm trying to set her up for a great shot. And see how the rallies go. But even then, within that, well, was that shot better than the last one? Was that more beautiful? You know it's this infinite fucking regress of performance metrics and all the rest of it. As speaking of which, trust really is everything when it comes to supplements. A lot of brands may say their top quality, but few can actually prove it, which is why I partnered with Momentus. They make the highest quality supplements on the planet. Three of the products that I use to support my brain, body and sleep are magnesium, L3 and 8, creatine and omega -3s.

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1:25:59In six weeks time, it's the 10th anniversary of interstellar. Right. I think it's being re -released in theaters in 70 Mill I'm Act. And I'm Act. Yeah. Okay. How did that movie change you? It's my favorite movie of all time. So thank you for that. I have a lot of people tell me that that's their favorite movie of all time And that's another that a lot of people go had to go watch four times There's a lot to take in there's a lot to say again Classic Nolan um, yeah How did it change mean you're not talking about like the success the movie Me and I know the sub -equal tier and everything else either working with Christopher Learning about I mean, you know, Kip Thorn fucking the consultant physicist on that show so much stuff Also, you know, in that sense, it was similar to when I did a movie called Contact, and I got to sit with Carl Sagan for three and a half hours.

1:26:53And he went through, and I remember walking away from that gun, oh my gosh, as a believer, God's back yard to a whole lot bigger than I thought it was, which is a very humbling and empowering thought.

1:27:07I mean, the main thing was I think I'm on the human side of the real me personally. I was like, oh, you don't leave your kids to go do what your dream is. And then when I changed dream, what your dream is to go do what you were meant to do, what that you were born to do, that you have an ability to do like nobody else. I'm just like, ooh, well maybe you do leave your kid.

1:27:41That argument and that leaving, which is that countdown, that's, I remember, that's where I was. That's the scene I'm remembering is the price you pay, the cost, the consequence of chasing death. And I had my initial thought, what's O 'Coopers being selfish in the wrong way, You know, don't. And then it's a good argument though. I don't think you can easily say that. There's a major consequence with that, but look at what? And I'd look, I deal with it now. I got three kids, do my favorite job. What I think I was, I feel fine, stream and endless purpose in parenting. But I'm dabbling in different versions of leadership that have to do with the betterment.

1:28:28Maybe I hope of more people, but it would become a consequence of being there and being present like I want to be from my three children and my wife is our family. I haven't found anything that I believe is worth that at the sacrifice of this yet. And my argument with myself there is the best exports we can have if we do it well as our children. Nobody export you can put out a better extension of yourself. No better way to

1:29:01effect. Create a world.

1:29:07Then hopefully having some healthy children that can go be independent enough. And you know, and you talk them on, they see the world in the right way and can chase down things that they love and they hopefully love the right things. So contributing to anything in place of that is a net negative. Well, that'd be my argument at the sacrifice of fewer that I feel like, oh, that's, that's millennia. I've really got to, I've got it. That's, I'm helping give them the palette to paint on and I'm handing the right colors to them and letting them fall from the right heights to the wrong, the right trees, you know, to where they get bruised, but hopefully don't break an egg, you know what I mean?

1:29:49So, but it's a good argument. One that I understand on the other side and I have friends that go have sacrificed that. I have friends that have been very successful, even in the career of being an actor in Hollywood and a successful actor in Hollywood. It brings me back to when we first had kids before Camilla pulled the goli to get pregnant. She goes one condition, you go, we go. And my first reaction was, hey, hey, hey, I'm lone wolf artist here, man. I go off my air stream with my dog. I'm a solo, you know, coyote here, man. And while I'm saying that I heard my mother's voice go, you better nod your head and say, she's giving you a gift.

1:30:40Say yes, ma 'am. And I did. Yes, ma 'am. And that, we've done that. I have a 16 year old, a 14 year old, and an 11 year old. No doubt that has a major contribution to how to whatever strength our family is. And I think our family's very strong and the security that my kids have and the courage that they have, that because we've never been away from each other that long. They picked up, came with. There's another side I understand. You go got opportunities that can do great things. I can share art or leadership in the world that, hey, I'm going to be away. And maybe that's even there's argument that that could be better for your children later on or maybe better for their children.

1:31:27Well, this is the, you know, we were talking about that infinite regress of being mean to yourself or it's emotions about emotions and stuff. Thinking about the decision that Cooper needs to make and also the decision that you need to make, it's you can always continue to kid yourself a little a little bit more, is it more virtuous to stay at home with your children, to raise your children, despite the fact that the likelihood of them surviving into the future and their kids surviving into the future is lessened by that, okay. But then if you go and do the thing, you leave them, you're making that sacrifice, are you doing it because you want to save the world or are you doing it because it's your dream?

1:32:01Or the fact that you can get something virtuous out of something that's also your dream is that fucking Puritan work ethic we were talking about before, which is the only way that this can be the virtuous decision is if I suffer more, it's only suffering, not just that it's good for the future, but also that I don't want to do it, because if I don't want to do it, then I know that it's really, really true, because it's a high price that I pay, because go pull it off. And this is the, as far as I can see, the curse of the deep thinker. Amen.

1:32:34A curse and gift. Because it does do one thing that we hadn't brought up at a very base level. And I think this goes along with stress, anxiety. But the very base, it means in something that we can't take for granted because not everyone has it, it means you give it down. Yes. And let's not throw that out like, oh, yeah, of course you, no, because not everybody does. It means you give it down about more than just yourself. And that is a high end value and not an old fashioned nostalgic thing to go, oh, it's so 1950s bullshit. That's a real thing. So some people can't care or some people struggle to care about things.

1:33:18We're entitled people to go through their lives. It's odd, especially in the UK, loving things, being too keen, right? Americans kind of have permanent first line cocaine energy. Yeah, very exciting. Yeah. And I like it. I like excitable people. I like enthusiasm. However, the UK doesn't necessarily have that quite so much. And I always think how much I wish I could gift that back to the UK, but how much that positive reinforcement we were saying it before, that first scene that you do, and the guy next to you goes, hey, that was pretty good. Yeah, yeah. The right encouraging word, the right time.

1:34:03Where would that push people to? And okay, if that's what you want for you in the world, right, you have the opportunity to be that for other people and maybe it's gonna start to come back around and maybe we can begin to change culture a little bit by doing this. When would that English, or does it? Does it have someone though that it is constantly like Yeah, that, that, that, that goes and succeeds that the English culture goes. I can bravo. Really? So, interesting stat around the UK globally so far in 2024, the UK has the second highest number of millionaire exits on earth. What's a millionaire exit?

1:34:46A millionaire that has left the country and is now living in a different, a different nation. China, first, 15 ,000, UK, second, nine and a half thousand, but the UK is 3 % of the population of China. So pro -rata we have got by far the most millionaires leaving. By far, we do not have a good culture around supporting success, around people doing different things. Another great example of this, the UK has got three universities and two or three universities in the top 10 in the world as does America. So it'll be Oxford, Cambridge, maybe King's are Durham and UK and there'll be Yale, Princeton, Harvard, something else in the US and a couple of others.

1:35:31And we have 20 % the number of startup founders. Despite the fact that we have the same number of university graduates going from top flight universities. Why? Culture. Well, speaking of that, what did you learn? You did the gentleman with Guy. Yeah. You spent a good bit of time presumably, and meshing yourself into British culture. What did you learn while you were there?

1:35:56Well, so there is still a royal dance to play the part and do in that I found that interesting and quite entertaining. I remember that everything has, there's a costume and a timing and who goes here, win and here's a seat there and this is how we do this and I found it very interesting and pump and suck and stunts. Yeah, it was all there and I indulged and played that part and enjoyed. But it went z. Now when I went out and they saw that I was actually a very good shot at fesent so I would got a few hit. I got a few out of voice. Bring me American over here. Hey, we're liking that, right? It's good with guns.

1:36:38Um, and then I remember this one though where the term is do we're the posh? went overboard, but nobody seemed to notice it, but me. And we were at this dinner, and it was one of those dinners where 24 people on this side, 24 people on this side, Mrs. is down there and Mr. is down here. Mrs. has a 24 foot by 18 foot oil painting of herself over her chair and Mr. as an 8 24 foot by 18 foot over his chair, and it was just abs. It's just all just like, great. Everyone had their own waiter that saw, ding, on time, and this is just absolutely great. Well, after the dinner, the youngsters, the sons and the daughters had come over with their friends and they were all, it's also posh to smoke the cigarette.

1:37:22And I remember this one, get flicking the ash. There's an ash tree right down the table, boom, on the carpet. I was like, dude. And without even saying it's like, no, man, it's, it's what posh. It's a, it's a, I'm poshering. It's cooler to go, I can drop my hash on your $550 ,000 Persian rug than it is to put it in the ass tray. And I was like, well, that one I think y 'all went over, I think you went out of bounds on that one. But the fact that that was, it was a game's game's shit, but they were doing it and consistent. And if fascinating, the Americans are basically blind to class, you've had to use the word posh almost in speech marks there.

1:38:10Right. It's like a word that there is not a single school child that doesn't use the word posh in primary school once a day in England. Everybody is. And it means class? It means this person is well to do from a well to do background. Okay. And there's, you know, I remember there was a guy that I played cricket with, cricket's still working class sport in the UK. It's not necessarily upper class, there's very working class town. I was a kid who got a class Mercedes used for his 17th birthday, which is when you can drive in the UK. I was like, wow. Danny's from a posh family. I never really knew that much.

1:38:48But I knew I had money. He always had nice kid. He always had new boots at the start of each season. I was like, wow, he got a Mercedes. In retrospect, it's maybe a seven grand car, 10 grand car, something like that. For me, I'm like, oh posh, posh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there something though going on with the, as the royal family and the king and the queen losing power and that's becoming, is these millionaire exits? Is this still a bit of a, how dare you become that wealthy in the private sector? You're not a royal? Or, no, I certainly don't think with regards to that, but there is definitely skepticism around the monarchy at the moment.

1:39:31And I'm really not sure where I stand on that. One of my friends is a very compelling argument that we should do away with it. Doesn't like the word you're high -ness higher than what. But also, what was it that you were just saying? Like, what have we got if we don't hold onto the culture and the things that people know us for? And I like the pump and circumstance. When I graduated from Newcastle University, There's this 10 minute procession of different mace barriers, literally wielding medieval weapons, dotting their caps to different people in different sequences in order to show who and where and why.

1:40:12It's like this is fucking cool. Whatever it is, it's still because America, we're, whether we know that, we're hungry for ritual. Yes. And we don't have near as much rich. It's not established. I just trees that are older than your country. Yeah, we're just puppies. I hope that you don't get watered down to where, because y 'all have amazing ritual. Laugh, giggle at it or not. Do it and appreciate it and go, this is a different place and it's been around, it's been around a while.

1:40:46Yeah, posh, it's class, okay. Yeah, a little bit well to do. Okay. Yeah. You mentioned there about some of the prices that people need to pay in order to be who they are. I'm fascinated by this question. I'm fascinated by the cost of entry price of doing business to be a person that other people admire because I think that it helps to humanize others' success and it helps to mitigate jealousy and envy because you see what someone has had to go through in order to be in a position that you think you want to be. And they go, oh, you get to see this much, by the way, there's this monster hiding behind.

1:41:33What do you wish more people knew about the price of success in life?

1:41:44Well, success is taken on different definitions over time. It used to have to do, and some people listen to this, and be like, ah, come on, my kind. You have to do with some integrity. Actually, I think it was a word that was in the definition of 1901 or 11. and now money, fame, that's your definition of success. So it seems to be that and always has been to some extent, whoever has more, it's no success for more access, for money, you're the winner.

1:42:21The last for a lot, that is, I'm not saying it's a race to the red light, but I am saying the fourth quarter of that being your goal, it has the residuals decline on quality of life. I've met many more very rich men who chased that dollar to be successful and to be relevant for having the most money that the last 15, 20, even younger years or bewildered. lost, had no relationships, didn't have purpose. Chasing the dollar a day, they did it. They were good at it and made it happen, but they didn't feel what they were doing. They couldn't even necessarily say what they were really good at. Just good deal makers were made the right calls and certain mathematics.

1:43:18But that's definition. It's also why I wasn't surprised when Trump first got elected. It famed, it money. We sell that every day in the West as this is how you make it America. America. That's America. Yeah. So I was not surprised because that's what we're getting fed. What a success. I just, let me prephrase it with this. We all want to be relevant, but I think we all forget to ask ourselves relevant for what before we chase our relevance or chase success. I think there's a difference between success and profit. Being profit does pay you back. Can you do things and I love money. I'm all for it.

1:44:07But there I see a lot of one way tickets that are you can get Successful when have more money, but not be making a profit in your life. How many times we sacrifice quality for quantity? The two don't have to be separate. Now, you may have to make some sacrifices of quantity to have more quality, but I think we should give quality more credit than we do. Well, are we not ultimately having more quantity in the hopes of more quality? Yes, that's pretty good. But that's not a quid pro quo. It doesn't, it doesn't equal out to that. We believe it, it will and hey, it can access. I mean, I got a lot of things now for money I've made that I'm like, damn right, man.

1:44:47I'm glad I have that. That makes my life, not even more convenient. I I actually like that more. I like what I can do with my family more with that. I like what Camille and I can do as a husband wife, I like what I can do solo even more with that. Enjoy it. And it get it feeds me.

1:45:05But would I be any less, would I be any less happy if I had a 30, a 40, a 50th of what I have right now? No, no, I know that. There's no, I know how to be less happy. No way I'd be less happy. Don't want to give all that away and say, well, I'm gonna make me poor. Sometimes I'm like, hey, you need to be more poor. Other times like, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't be getting the imposter syndrome on this one. You're using it for you use it pretty good. You could use it even better, but don't be, don't get mad at it. You know what I mean? I think we just need to ask ourselves that question relevant for what and also in the pursuit of quantity, which is what the world rewards ask ourselves read to watch out and just drink in the gulane go, what is the quality?

1:45:58What do I want? And again, that's a hard question of what I value the most. What I really value the most. And it's a hard question to answer. But if we can answer that, make sure you're, it'll make you, it makes us answer the quality question of what we want more of and not just the quantity question because a lot of us, I've done it to been blind as could be chasing the quantity to see. Let me see if I can get the biggest number. That's dope of me, Matthew. Do you know what I mean, Matthew? And I'm pretty damn good at it. If I want to put on my business hat and go, that's all I'm going to be right here.

1:46:27Found out I'm pretty good at it. But I don't want to stay in that dopamine, Matthew, on that, on that. Because I don't get the reward. I get the reward of the acquisition, but the acquisition does not equally pay back the dopamine of the getting. It's the conquering. That's the hit, you know. Redefine, everyone can have their own definition of success and ask yourself can I have quality with the Kwani and can I have profit with my success? And profit goes into, leans into relationships. I think profit ends up to be a spiritual question too. and how we treat ourselves and others. I think it's a longer game.

1:47:11This chase for just success, if that's money in quantity, is a shortsighted game. If that's all your after it. Now I understand some people out there who can't pay their rent or are sick and trying to make it to the next day would listen to this and go, easy for you to say. And I say, you are correct. I'm speaking from where, from my position, because you asked me, because some people that are going, I'm not, this is a hyperbolic conversation you're having. I'm trying to make it to the next day. Type B person with a type A problem thinks, what a champagne issue that is. Yeah. But it's real and apologizing for it, but I understand the difference.

1:47:46But I would just say that if more people that are type A and maybe there are things that are working out, just check your quality as you're chasing your quantities, make sure that whatever you're succeeding at is giving you actual profit and actually paying you back. Matthew McConaughey, ladies and gentlemen. Dude, I really appreciate you. I love the way that you think. I love your insights about life. Congratulations on the new book. Congratulations on the tequila. And thank you. Thank you for coming today. I really, really enjoyed this. I did too, Chris. Very much. Glad to be here. Man, I met up top in a barn somewhere in Austin where I was looking down to even know where I was going.

1:48:23So, I went to a barn. I was like, oh, this is where we are. Yes, it is. Seems on brand for you. I like it. Back yeah, dude, until next time. Until. Thank you very much for tuning in. Look, we went to a lot of effort to get Mr. McConaughey here and convert an old barn that's from the 1800s in Texas, so I really hope you enjoyed it. I'll see you next time.