#866 - Jesse James West - How To Stay Disciplined When Times Get Tough

26:00I'm on phase. I don't care and I feel like people really started to pick up on that and like they're like damn this this this M .E .R. is like not breaking. And these were like the junior or the greater above me or whatever, uh, the cool kids. I called them the entitled kids. They very much were no hate against them now. Everyone, no big deal. It made me who I was. But another time was um, a kid for Halloween. I, and he might even be watching this. I forgive you. It's okay. He dressed up as me. That's, hey, no, he dressed up as me. And I remember seeing this and I was like, this is a new level I have to accept, this is fucked.

26:42And honestly, I'll get into more. So he dresses up in me. He has a fucking muscle suit on at a party. We're probably 16, 17. He was one of the kids that would go drink with his friends. I drank a little when I was in high school, whatever. I wasn't really a partier. I didn't have time. I was playing with Cross every day. And I was like, I'm sitting at home, seeing on my Instagram and I'm like, wow. Wow, this fucker is dressing up as me right now. It says Jesse James Fitness. And like those things just like stick with you as like a driving motivation of like why I want to make it even more. It's almost like a trauma, a trauma reaction.

27:14Like I was traumatized. My reaction is I'm gonna win. You're not gonna, you're not gonna control me. I'm going to defeat you and everything in front of me. You're just a wall that I have to break through. You know, and if I can't handle this, I don't deserve what I want. Like if you, that was my mindset. And I saw that, I remember, and he knows crazy is that now, a few months ago, I'm not gonna, I would never name him, but he messaged me about my Michael Chandler collab. And he's like, dude, saw the Chandler collab? So sick, great job. And I was like, huh, weren't, and I was like, honestly, thank you.

27:52So one of those weird things about having a chip on your shoulder about stuff that happened in your past, that maybe some kids in reflection realized how much it might have impacted you. But a lot of the time it's just kids being kids. I know. And that's very strange, right? Because the impact of something is so much greater than the estimate of it. It hurts way more than what was thrown, if that makes sense. And that's a really strange thing, I think, for people that circle for them to squat But how can it be the case that this person doesn't deserve for me to still bear a grudge against them?

28:33They, that hurt and I remember, you still remember it. No, I'm in a maybe 10 years later. It's crazy. Yeah, it's definitely stung for a while, but it's also like one of the things that for some reason, and I'm gonna assume that it's from my mom, the way she raised me and always like hyped me up in a way, where she believed in me before I believed in me. And she believed in me so much that I ended up believing in myself and everything. I am weirdly believing myself for things I shouldn't believe in myself where I'm like, I could be a musician if I wanted. Let's be real, Jesse, your little tone deaf.

29:07But like, you know what I mean? I had that mindset that's ingrained in me and from a young age. So seeing those things happen and then she would kind of be like the backbone, she'd be like, you can't let this affect you. Like in reality, this is not doing anything. It's really not doing anything. The only thing I could do is hurt you and then you're just stopping yourself from doing anything because it's in your head. Like, no one else is seeing that and going, you know what, I'm not gonna support Jesse because that kid wore a muscle suit like, like that shit doesn't exist. It's all how we perceive it.

29:37So having that like backbone and belief in my body that my mom and still be from a young age, I feel like it's one of the reasons that I am in the position I am where I have so much unconditional belief in myself that I tell people that if you believe in yourself, I'm thinking you actually believe not just like, oh, I believe in myself because I was told by Chris and Jesse on a podcast too. Like if you genuinely believe in yourself, you are 75 % already there towards your goals. Like you will accomplish them. If you believe yourself, put in the work it's done. What has been the,

30:13what's been the process of closing the loop with your dad? Yes. Having been pushed so hard, presumably a lot of disappointment when the thing that he's worked on with you for nearly a decade goes like, pull the pin and just toss it out the window. Oh, that was a very hard time. Honestly, for my whole family, because it's me, my sister, my mom, my dad, and we're all very close, we all communicated a ton in great relationships, and for years it was all great. But then with my dad being so, and he thought this was the best for me, he thought this is gonna make Jesse successful, He's gonna have security when he's older like this.

30:53It was out of love. It was just this love that was, I guess you could say, hurtful in a way and like a little toxic. And so I go through, I'll leave you the kind of, like the run out of quitting and like ripping and pulling the pin on the grenade and chucking it. I call my mom, I call my sister, I believe first. I've always kind of gone to hers like, all right, what do I do? Like she's just kind of like another parent to me. And she's like, you're gonna have to like, just call mom, tell her what's going on. she'll, she'll handle dad. That was kind of always how it went. Like mom's gonna handle dad and I tell my mom and she's like, I'll talk to your father and basically my mom tells me the conversation went like this.

31:32They came to visit me at Lehigh during an alumni game. We were playing a game and after the game we went to Target. Me and my mom are going in and just getting like college supply stuff because when you go early in sports, you don't go and everyone else starts and I go in there And this has been, I've been there for about three weeks, and I'm really fucking struggling, like very, very depressed. And I break down crying to her, just like, I can't keep it in, like, and I'm just walking target, like, about to, like, to check out Ielst my right. And I start tearing up and I'm, and I'm like, oh my god, and I look at her and I'm like, I'm like, something so fucking wrong.

32:10Like, I feel like I can't feel anything. I have no interest in like women right now and not that I was pursuing anything else But just like my emotion of who Jesse was like I always wanted to go out and like talk to the girls didn't care at all None of that social media. I still doing it But I was just like fuck man like my desire of everything is gone the only thing I had that kept me sort of seen was Lifting and music and those are like two things that I like combined together and it was my only safe space and I remember leaving that Target my mom Then drop my mom and dad are in the car my dad doesn't know I just cried I'm like fucking suck it up like you're fine like getting the car like I'm the good boy.

32:53That's fucking Completing this mission of ours and when she drops me off She told me to tell me the conversation. She looked at my dad. I was like you're not saying a word He's leaving you have no say so shout out Karen to this fucking legend And she's like you have to accept this and that's how it is period end of conversation and I feel like he kind of knew for a while, I know we're skipping parts in the story of my darkness and stuff, but he kind of caught the idea a little bit like my son's struggling, but I feel like he kind of didn't want to admit it. But what that did was it broke down this massive barrier of how my dad thought I should go about life and also broke down a massive barrier for myself that maybe I don't have to listen to everyone telling me to do things and maybe I should just listen to myself and actually like pursue things that I want to and I haven't I haven't been able to in six years of my life.

33:52I've been playing across every day, every weekend, missing homecoming, late to prom, leaving prom weekend because I got to go play in an all -star game. Like the shit never ended and like it made me like relentless and it definitely was like dedication and and relentless right there, but that shit stuck with me for so long of like, I didn't get anything for a while of like experience that normal people have. And I feel like it just hit a big breaking point when I got to college. And once that happened, it was then now, like my mom tells my dad, Jess he's out, accepted or you know, you're not gonna have a relationship with your son basically.

34:29I then you know, I come home for the weekend, I talk to my dad and stuff. and he's like, he's very understanding. He's like, honestly, I don't wanna speak for him, but I think it's one of his biggest regrets is pushing me that far to my limits, where as a father, you never wanna push your son into depression or anything, not that he pushed me there, but like, his actions added up. The setup. Yeah, and I know like, we have a great relationship now. We did throughout years, it was up and down, good, bad sometimes. Now it's a great relationship, but during that time, and it definitely like changes mindset of like just everything.

35:07And really, like, John had to become a new man and accept things. And I had to become a new man and learn that I had to say what I want in life, do what I want. And like you said, hold yourself, I have to advocate for myself at all times, because I, this is the saying that I stuck with. Do what you're meant to, not what you're supposed to. Everyone is always supposed to be doing something. But if you're not meant to be doing that, why the fuck are you doing it? Like seriously? I wonder how many people have gone through their entire lives never doing anything that they weren't supposed to do. Yup.

35:40You know that there's sad. It's just been one big series of dominoes from when they were born until now, whatever age they are, where they never told their dad or the equivalent of it that they didn't wanna do lacrosse. Yeah. And it's like one of my main missions on social media, Yeah, so I wanna do big things, make cool videos, but like the true why of like the core of why I started, why I do all this was because I went through that and I feel like I went through such a dark phase of my life with such a bright awakening, I was like, people need to know this shit. Like people need to just not be told it, but shown it.

36:22I would advocate for myself that on my channel, it's me living my best life. Doing cool things that I have desires that I've interested in, and you know, I'm interested in Vikings. I'm gonna go frickin' Norway, jump off Cliff at Vikings and eat and drink meat and do these cool things. It's like, that's something I've always wanted to do. I have a lot of fascination and stuff like that. And I always wanted to leave a subconscious message with my videos, like, if you're not living life to the fullest, like, you are missing out on so much. And I hope that people can watch this and realize that you are worth that meant to life rather than that supposed to life.

36:56And I hope people can pursue their men to eventually. Yeah, it's scary man, that's why I think advocating for yourself, making your needs known. Almost there's this sort of assumption a lot of people have very much a British thing, but maybe working class thing too, that who am I to actually have needs, or desires, or wants in that regard, that there's this sort of weird glory and sacrifice in subjugating yourself. It's like, no, no, no, no, it's noble for me to hate what I do and still do it. It's noble for me to suffer. This sort of weird sort of self -flagulation as you whip yourself through whatever it is that you're going through.

37:38And in some ways there is, but no one's going to give you some award at the end of your life that says he suffered in silence. Yeah. There's not going to be a banner. No, over your deathbed. It goes, congratulations for never making a fuss. I don't think that that exists. And so much of the advice that's on the internet at the moment has been born out of a identity politics, victimhood, fragility, overdiagnosis of normal human discomfort as a pathological mental problem world. So most of the content is Goggins and Jocco saying, stay hard, suck it up but a cup, You don't need to be such a soft person.

38:21But there is a world of people out there who are making themselves suffer too much, who aren't advocating for their own desires, who aren't making their needs known, who don't believe that they're that they should be a priority in their life or in anybody else's. And I think that they're the sort of people that listen to this show. And that stuff in many ways pushes them further into what they already have too much of. They don't need to do more suffering. They need to get better at making that own needs known to the people around them. Yeah, I think it comes down to, like how I said about believing in yourself.

38:59I think a lot of people weren't raised the way to have that where they need to learn that in their 20s, 30s, 40s, whatever. And that's way harder than growing up thinking that. So I'm definitely like very blessed to have that that intuitional belief in myself from like day one. And I think for those that may not relate to that, how I have that belief, it's one of those things that that's where I think you need to realize there's things like the nine to five and there's things like the entrepreneurial route. And I think it's really important people to realize that it isn't always grass, it isn't always grass is greener on the other side.

39:40I think people need to realize also that There is just as much in some scenarios struggle in and I'm gonna do everything on my own, I'm being entrepreneur, you're working 24 hours, brother. Good luck, it's hard. Nine to five, good luck, if I had to go to that, good luck, it's hard, it's hard on both ends of life. It's just a matter of almost like, what evil you wanna put your energy into. What pain do you wanna have to deal with? Like they see goggins and they think, oh, suffer, suffer, suffer, let's go, let's go, I'm gonna just, I'm gonna fucking get through this job, I don't care. And that makes them, maybe they get dobbling off of that.

40:10But you also could just input that same exact suffer and energy into maybe something that you have passion and drive for. It's still gonna maybe have its moments of difficulty and suck, but at least it's towards something that like you're in your soul. It's different feeling of outcome of just internal feeling of your soul's dopamine hits. You know what I mean? In other news this episode is brought to you by AG1. Over the span of about a year, I tried pretty much every green string that I could find trying to work out which one was best, And I came across AG1 and have stuck with it for over three years because it is the most comprehensive, highly tested and rigorously formulated on the market.

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41:18Right now, you can get a year's free supply of vitamin D3 and K2 plus 5 free AG1 travel packs, and that 90 -day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinkag1 .com slash modern wisdom. That's drinkag1 .com slash modern wisdom. What's your advice to people who don't have a supportive surrounding that maybe are in a you heard of food deserts? It's a places around countries where it's very difficult to get hold of high quality food. I often think about role model deserts or sort of support deserts, places where someone is trying to do something a little bit different, maybe they're not following the prescribed route that typically people from where they're from are doing and they go So, because you did it twice, you first left the normal education, normal teenager life to do the lacrosse thing, and then left the lacrosse life thing to do the next thing.

42:15So, in both situations. It's been like five things that I've kind of like said I'm out. I left that normal teenage life. That's one, left Lehigh, that's two, went to Montclair State University, D3 school, very close to home, sort of like a more expensive community college you can live at. And played across there and played there, did very well. Was like I had the most goals in the team and stuff like that. So again, people are like, keep doing it bro, keep doing it. You're doing amazing. Oh my God. Plus to every enforcement. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm like, is this what I'm supposed to be doing though?

42:48So then that got to a point where I was like, I went into I went straight into my coach and was like, Hey, I don't want to do this anymore. That was, that was was a third time. He luckily, like I appreciate what he did. He was like, I want you to shift your perspective. I don't want you to look at this. I was waiting for the B -Pink. I don't want you to look at this as, you have to be here. Just go out, hang out with the guys. Do your thing. Stop putting pressure on yourself. Stop putting pressure on yourself. And that lightened it up for a while. It really did. And kind of like, it's almost like an internal anxiety that we all put in ourselves of like, I have to be here.

43:21I have to do this. Oh, what it's happening, let's accept this rather than fight it. And that's internal fight. That internal fight is where anxiety is painful. Because in your head, you're basically living through it multiple times and you're forcing yourself to feel the anxiety that's happening in real life. But if you just take a second, this helps me a lot with anxiety. I take a step back, I go, I have anxiety right now. And I'm feeling it. And I allow myself to feel this anxiety. and my body almost like releases the tension and I kind of relax into it. And yes, there's still anxiety, but it's like when you're in the ice bath and you're, oh, fuck, oh my God, I'm dying.

44:03This is killing me. And then you're like, you know what? And you just let it, yeah, it still hurts. Just some days that you get in that. You have to just let it, you have to just let them just accept it, accept the pain. Mark Twain says, worrying is like paying a debt that you don't owe. And that's it, it's not just the discomfort of the thing that you're going to have to do, it's the 50 times that you think about that thing in advance of it, and then once you finish thinking about it and it happens, you then sort of ruminate about the fact that it, yeah, I know exactly what. I also wanna say, and I don't think people, a lot of people know this about me, which I'm totally fine being open about, but I'm on an antidepressants and I was 15.

44:41I experienced a ton of anxiety when I was like 15, I had no idea how to handle it, so I kind of like acted out an anger because I just didn't know what this feeling was and it was just straight up anxiety. And it came a lot from the pressure of sports and I only scored two goals today. I performed better last week. What do I do? I just dropped the ball. Everyone's looking at me. The coach is a mad, whatever it might be. And I went on to Zoloff, I'm at like 50 milligrams for literally nine years. Pretty crazy. The one time I came off, and there was not bringing this up because I want to almost normalize like, hey, if you're on this stuff, I used to feel ashamed that I was on it and not tell anybody, like maybe my two best friends new for like five years and no one else knew.

45:22But I went on it for from 15 to 18, when I went to Lehigh, there's the only time I ever came off. The time you made the most important decision. The time I made the most important decision in my life, and also felt the most pain in my life. Did I feel more pain because I was off? I have no idea. 50 milligrams is not a lot, it's small. But I then went back on, you know, felt regulated. Does it work? I honestly have no idea. Because you really tell you? You, without being a... I've never been interested in titrating down a dropping off it, or is this gonna be for the rest of your life? It's a good question.

45:57I've had these conversations. One thing that I'm afraid of is altering my mind from where it's at right now. I think eventually, I think it comes from a lot of internal work and daily practices to be able to shift off of it. like, you know, I'm breathwork, I don't do that now. I gotta, I gotta maybe go in the sauna and the ice bath. I'm a little things like that that I need to take an account if I'm coming off of it. The only thing I fear, and I could be like just like the trauma thing is in 2018 just being that depressed and having that, I think that me stopping registers in my brain as that's gonna happen.

46:34It might not, you know, it probably doesn't, but in my head I'm scared. It's a high risk strategy, man. I mean, I have no idea what long term decades along SSRI usages, but you've got fiance, you've got business, you seem like you have a lot of energy. So a lot of the things that seem to come along for the ride with SSRI is like libido dipping, energy dipping, desire to drive and train, and stuff like that. I don't have that, luckily. Well, yeah, it's, or maybe an adjective I was at without it, I'd be like, whoa. Having sex with everyone. Everyone wants to have it away, keep it away. I had Andrew Wilkinson on the show.

47:10He's a billionaire. He owned tiny .com. He's got a bunch of other businesses. And he was singing the praises of SSRIs as well. And this is another one of those conversations where the midwit headline is SSRIs are overprescribed for people that don't need them. Therefore, all SSRIs are bullshit. And everyone that's on them is a whim. Right. The second order, smarter person thinking is there probably is overprescription. and maybe SSRIs do only move the needle a little bit, especially for many cohorts, but some drugs, some people are hyper -responders to certain drugs, and it seems like for you, hasn't come with a whole bunch of side effects, and it does seem to work well.

47:50Andrew Wilkinson said the same, he tried everything, he tried keto, he tried carnivore, he tried breath work, he'd done all of the different things, and then he tried SSRIs, and it seemed to work. So, like I'm really keen to just get people out of this, reflective midwit thinking, which is, oh, pussy, SSRIs, you go, okay, is it somehow more noble for someone to suffer and be miserable as opposed to take this? It's the same thing with ozempic. I think lots of people are gonna come around eventually when the conceptual inertia of taking a pill to lose weight is cheating. Okay, does that mean that the caffeine in your drink is cheating?

48:33Because that's augmenting the way that you operate. right? Does it mean that a diabetic that can't produce insulin that needs to take a shot? Are they cheating to stay alive? They're pussy. Yeah. Pussy. Just like suck it up. Pussy. So I really, and I'm fortunate with the audience I have that they're thoughtful people. But yeah, avoiding that midwit thinking is something that's super important. And it's really cool. The SSRI effectiveness for you that seems to have you functioning pretty normally. People, I've heard on the Magcast, it's like Sushin James English years ago, they were like, I think Jesse's brain automatically produces Adderall in his head.

49:11And I was like, that makes a lot of sense. I don't do any drugs like whatsoever. I drink maybe one drink a month. And it's like I, the way I'm operated is almost like I am on these performance enhancing drugs I feel like, but just naturally something's in my body and drive and passion. So luckily the SSRIs I always have an effect in me in any negative way. Maybe that's why I'm like able to work so much. I don't know. It seems like it's functioning pretty well. That's why I'm so happy, guys. Also, to think about what you said that if you were to come off them, you would have to go through all of these routines, maybe to ensure that mental health was in a good place.

49:49So last six to eight months for me has been rough. I've been detoxing from mold in a house that I was living in, which for anybody that's going through it, it's brutal. I still haven't sort of fully talked about it on the show yet. But it's being awful. It's so hard. And the way that I described it to my therapist was, it feels like the gravity of your mood is so much heavier. Wow. So in order for me to be in a good mood, or for my brain to be functioning well, I have to have just got out of a cold plunge after doing a sauna listening to my favorite music on my way to see my friend to eat my favorite food while the sun's shining.

50:25You know, it doesn't just stumble upon a good mood and you don't just stumble upon a good sort of mind space in terms of energy. I'm always forgetting things. My mood is always struggling and it feels like swimming upstream and that's kind of the same thing you're talking about there. So when it comes to enhancements in different ways, I was talking to Dr. Mike and Crystal, his wife, the other day. And she was saying, there's even this new class of SSRIs now that they've dialed in the formulation more effectively. it works on a different pathway. There's even fewer side effects. It's basically free happiness.

51:00And I understand because of... Up until now, most of pharmacology hasn't come along. Every time that you try and give someone a free lunch, there is some unseen cancer down the road. There is some side effect, cholesterol through the roof, and people are dying because of blood clot or whatever it might be. There are all of those. Apart from when you get to the stage where you can fully master these things, That's like kind of saying previously, well, you know, we've said that surgeries are going to work for all of this time, but each time that we do it, people keep on getting infected. It's like, yeah, that's because you didn't have an understanding of the germ theory of disease.

51:34But then as understandings continue to develop, I think we should be cautious about using lessons from the past to sort of inform right now, at least super judgmentally. It's like, let's be open to this, especially given, it's like saying, how can you have a computer, the talk steam, you go, well, I don't know, LLM seemed to be doing a pretty good job. So the same thing might happen in pharmacology as well. But yeah, the idea of having to work hard for a good mood is something that I've been intimately familiar with over the last few months, so I feel you. It's a fun fact. I actually forgot to take mine last night.

52:08So today I was like withdrawing. That's one of the reasons that I also, like coming up short acting. The, what do you mean? What does that say? That's what I mean. Well, you didn't take it last night. And today you feel it. About an hour and a half ago, I was like, why am I so fucking dizzy? And then I looked at my fiance and I was like, I didn't take my fucking pill last night. So I'll turn a corner and my brain will be like, ooh, wow. So it's happening. It's not like you're... It's about delayed by like, it's like 36 hours I got hit and I was like, whoa. Okay. But it's not as if you build up some passive reds of war of this stuff.

52:39I guess not. So it's happening pretty quick. That's interesting. I've always had that like, if I miss it one day, I get dizzy. Getting onto some of the stuff that you've done in fitness, We talked about this earlier on hybrid training running is super popular at the moment. You ran every day for a month. What did that do to you? It gave me a lot of respect for runners, especially hybrid runners. Honestly, all runners. Any new challenge will work out to tough, but doing it every day, it was like new and fun in your sore in the beginning and it's really hard, but I feel like running is a a different sort of reward where I see a very quick result where I run three miles on day one horrible time.

53:23I'm dying, I'm cramping, I feel terrible. I'm like, well, I'm running a marathon on 30 days. How is it gonna happen? By date, seven, I'm like, I can run three miles. Then when you go to six, you know, it's hard again. You gotta taper up. I did a very rapid prep. No one really does this. Nick Bear sort of coached me. He's like, hey, this is the best case scenario. You're gonna run this many miles each day. Good luck. No one should do this. So you started from not being a runner. Yep. And within 30 days did... Full marathon. Full marathon. Sub four baby. How did that feel? The marathon? Excruciating.

53:57Uh, it wasn't the most painful thing I've ever done. And I'll segue into what it is, because you want to hear that. Um, the marathon, the first 13 miles were pretty chill and I was like, oh, half way. Like, this is going to be pretty easy. Like, not easy, but like, I'll be okay. And then I get to my, my, my, 15 and I was like, broke my legs, like, I was just like, not cooperating now. My 16, I entered the wall, which they call it. It's like a wall. The wall means the wall and running is where you hit this block at period of time. Many miles, one mile could be 10, doesn't, everyone's different.

54:34And it's the biggest hurdle that you have to get over. It's the same, you're running at the same pace. There's no difference. Nothing has changed. It's just your body has and your body and mind has created this wall that you have to literally get through and For me it was my old 16 to 24 For many people everyone's like dude when you hit my old 20 you're gonna hit a wall It's you'll get through it. You'll get through it 20 20 you'll hit it 20 you hit bro 16 And I kept I kept it kept getting drastically worse and worse and I was like I was like I have to be leaving the wall soon I have to be leaving the wall soon and that was 22.

55:09Why am I still in the wall? What is happening? Am I gonna die? Longest wall in his. So, and it's probably because I had a very rapid training for it. And at this point, I'm like my hip flexors feel like they're gonna tear off the bone. And I'm very under -prepared. 30 days is nowhere near enough. No one should ever do that, unless you're stupid making YouTube video. We get to mile 24. I meet an angel of a man. I think his name was Matt. I believe it was Matt. It was literally like an angel that someone I'm just pouring it there and I was like, hey, hey you! And he's like, hey, oh you're that YouTube guy.

55:41He's like, I've seen you. And I was like, can I run away you please? Cause we're running, we're through the woods also. So it's kind of like a difficult marathon. They're all hard. And I catch up with him and I look at him, I go, do not slow down. Don't slow down. I'm gonna keep up with you. And then we start getting this pace. And I'm just like, I wanna cry already. It's happening. But I stick with him. And then he starts slowing down. And then I pick him up and I'm like, come on bro, come on. And then a third dude joins us and we're all dying together. And it's like, we've never met each other in our lives.

56:13We're all like, you got this bro. What's your name? Nice to meet you and we're dying. And we finally make it. And honestly, if I didn't meet Matt at my old 24 -ish, I genuinely, I kept like walking, running, walking around in the last few miles before I met him. And I was like, dude, if I have to walk this, like I have failed so miserable. I'm so mad at myself because I know I can handle a pain and I can't remind myself this is not the hardest thing you've done. The hardest thing I've done. By the way, when I finished the marathon, my fiance was at the end, euphoric feeling, giver hug, saw my mom, had my team there, laid on the ground, couldn't get up, couldn't train hamstrings for like six weeks.

56:53I was gonna say what would the next few days like? Oh my god, the pain was so bad. I was limping for multiple days, like could barely lift my leg. And for about six weeks, my, the tendon behind your knee, there's like those two stringy tendons. I could not do a hamstring curl for the life of me. I could do like squats and stuff, but I could not curl anything, like not even like five pounds, felt like I probably tore something. And then my hip, I could not raise my right leg. And then for a while, there's a lot crunching going on. I was like, this was a bad idea. And video did great, 3 .3 million views, is probably in growing.

57:30My favorite part about that video was the storytelling and ending at the end was so like pure and it really moved people and got people so much. Like the comments on that video was different than anything. Did you see Casey Neistat's video about his marathon? Which the sub three? Yes. I saw how it took him like years. Decades. I ran mine three 53 and I was super happy with that. I was like, what the hell did I just do? I'm not gonna lie. I'm an athlete. I play dealing across. I was very good at sports and stuff. Like being athletic doesn't, doesn't, isn't hard for me, but running a marathon is wildly different.

58:11Athletic doesn't really matter there. It's just matter of like willpower. Editioning. In other news, this episode is brought to you by Jim Shock. You probably need some new Jim kit. and my favourite shorts in the world that I've ever tried on and all I will ever wear for the rest of my life are Jim Shark's Studio Short. They're phenomenal, they're super lightweight, super stretchy, incredibly comfortable, the perfect length, literally have them in every colour and it's all that I ever train in. They're heritage five in shorts, are the ultimate comfortable shorts to wear every single day. I live and breathe in them and despite the fact I insist on only wearing them, they keep on not falling apart.

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59:14A checkout. But let me tell you about the hardest thing that I've done. Oh God, I have trauma from this one. You can thank a guy named Brian Johnson, aka liver king. Okay, this guy, psychopath. Love him, great guy to be around. Extremely successful businessman, very motivating. He does this thing called the barbarian. You have 15 pound on ankle weights on each leg, 15 pound, or 70 pound backpack, 150, 140 pounds sled, and holding 70 pound of kettlebells. And it's 112 degrees outside in Texas, and it's August or July or something. And you have to go through the sand. So like sand gives resistance as you pull, it's digging itself into the ground, so it's torturous.

59:59So it's like, if you add to the math, like 315 pounds you're carrying. So like, you have to go a mile. I've done it once with him, the first time I met him. And we did on flat gravel. I did it in an hour in 20 something minutes. I beat him by an hour. I was like, what the hell does happen, bro? That was like, okay, that was one of the hardest things I've done, not the hardest. Then I do the second challenge a year later. He invites me back. He's like, I want you to do the barbarian crucible. I'm like, this sounds terrible, but I'm in. I'm all four stupid things that I'm gonna have to put myself through.

1:00:30That's why I literally have excurs from this. And we do this about quarter mile in. I was like, already having a first heat stroke. and I was like, what is, I was like, bro, this is next level because it's through sand, it's through dirt, it's through. It's the same thing. Same exact thing, same mile, just the course is 10 times harder. And last time he did it, it was a competition, so you kind of have that like, let me chase you feeling. This time he's just chilling. He's smoking a cigar, drinking his whiskey, calling the walkie talkie guy next to me, talking shit, and I'm like, I told him, I said, I will finish this.

1:01:05And this goes back to my like, almost stupid belief in myself to where I do things that hurt myself, because I'm like, I'm not gonna fail. I'm not gonna stop. So I psychotically do this for like, let's take three quarters of the mile. And I get to the sand. It's like first half, just gravel and dirt and stuff, hard but not the worst. Sand at like last, point four miles. And I get to this point where I am now full on having a heat stroke, I'm freezing, it's 112 degrees outside, it makes no sense. I've sweat all water out. Now I'm covered in white because like my like electrolytes are just on me.

1:01:42And I'm like, I'm like, I'm dying. I look at their producers and stuff, I'm like, I'm done. We allowed water. I was allowed to drink water. They were pouring a ton of water on me, but like nothing was working. And I look at their producer and I'm like, I'm done. I'm going to, they said, if you unclip, you're done. I'm about to unclip and they're like, don't do it. And I'm like, I'm stupid. I'm good at being told at what to do, like in still doing it. And I'm like, okay, you said don't do it. I'm not going to do it. I'm going to keep going. I go, I go. Next heat stroke. on the ground, laying there for 30 minutes.

1:02:09I'm like, my soul has left my body. I know I don't have sweat left in my body. I'm covered, I lick my lips, it's salty. Like, I needed some of this stuff. Great plug. But I get to a point where I'm like, dude, I have 0 .15 left of a mile. I have to just finish this. Same thing in the marathon. If I don't, I'm just gonna be pissed. Once I feel better, I'm gonna be pissed. Yeah, and I I somehow slug my way to the end Five steps drop five steps drop five steps drop. I'm like dead in the face I get there across the finish line. I just collapse on the ground and he's like Yeah, there you go brother, and he's like yeah, yeah boy says that's how he's like oh He's like let it the fuck on his all these saying there's psychotic and I'm laying And safe to say it took me four hours four hours ago in my life.

1:03:04And that was the most painful thing I've ever done in my life. So when I did the marathon, I just kept thinking about that. And I was like, that was four hours of way more pain. This is four hours of a different pain. My legs have never had so much lactic acid in my body. My upper body is perfectly fine. My mind can push through this. But with liver, it's like your arms are tired. Your legs are tired. Your soul, you can't even feel your soul because you're so dehydrated. It was a crazy experience. What have you learned about resilience physical discomfort from the challenges and things that you've done.

1:03:33I've learned that you can push your body so much farther than you'd ever think. Something that I learned at Lehigh, we had a Navy SEAL course come to us. And so I hated everything about Lehigh. School, the guys were cool, the coaches were always nice to me, but like the program didn't want to do it. All this stuff sucked. When they brought in Navy SEALs and made a stay -up, 50 hours, favorite thing, I was depressed at that. Fucking loved it. Way better than whatever hell we were doing before. So it's like this weird everyone else hated it. I was like, I don't know why that was the best part of my month and We do this cool.

1:04:06Oh, I did. I'm like remembering this shit. It's crazy. Okay. I'm like 18 where I'm like I'm like 180 pounds right now. I was probably almost 200 just meat stick bro fucking 4500 calories a day and they make us do Perfect jumping jacks perfect sit -off perfect push -ups one person messes up everyone is required to call that one person out basically make them feel like shit and then everyone runs because of it. We do that for four hours straight. They say, go home, get one hour of sleep. We go home, we fucking lay down, we get right back up. We're in a pool at 3 a .m. They say, put your sweatsuits on.

1:04:37Full crew neck, full sweat pants. These sweatpants are like double XL that we're wearing and they're like jumping the pool. And I'm like, what the fuck? And they're like, if you can't swim, go to the shallow end. Like that ass, they said this to us. And I was like, something I'm gonna die. We go in and they're like, okay, we're gonna do the pushups, the sit -ups, to everything on the outside of the pool or soaking wet. We're doing them. We're calling out people for not doing it right. And you're held accountable. If they see you see someone and say, and you don't go, hey, Johnny over here didn't do his push up right, now you're fucked.

1:05:04Now you get called out. So it's everybody's calling out each other and just saying like, you suck, you're horrible. Very traumatizing for some people. You just see that the faces on these people where I'm gonna die. And then we go to the pool and we're like, okay. Now we're gonna do basically like a deep end simulation thing where you have to take off your sweatshirt, you have to switch with somebody and then put it on. It's some Navy SEAL training. I don't know the name of it, but wild experience. They do tread, you're treading. And you're in like picture like so much resistance on your legs and you're like 40 pounds heavier with this like weighted clothes on you.

1:05:41And you're trying to swim and everyone's like, you're trying to like, hey you got this, you got this, you're talking each other up. And they're like, all right, everyone, take off your sweatshirt and you have to go on ready, ready attack calls so like everyone's on the exact same page and you take it off and you're treading. You're treading one arm. You have to hold it up in one arm until everybody is ready. You know, and it takes two minutes at least to get these things off. It's like stuck to you. Kids don't know what they're doing. Some kids literally are being held up by other people. I shouldn't say kids, we're like adults at this time and we're treading.

1:06:08We're treading. And then it's like ready, ready attack. Switch with somebody. You switch. Now ready, ready attack. Put it on. So think of like a wet rag like stuck together and you're like trying to like find the opening and you're treading still for like, right, like minute eight of treading. And then we put it on and we're like, all just dying. Some kids are near drowning, like genuinely, there's two people holding their arms up and their head is barely above the water. And if they don't complete it, restart. We did it like four rounds of this thing. And they would, they'd look at the team captain and go, how quick can you do it?

1:06:38And they wanted to push the hell out of us. And the team captain says something like two minutes. Okay, do it again. They'd look at them again. You didn't, you didn't want 50. How quick can you do it? 130. They're like, all right, 130. You didn't want 25. How quick are you doing? All right, 120. We do it. We get all the way down to like 115, 120 and we're all we've been training water for like 40 freaking minutes because in between Maybe you get like a quick put the shoulder on something, but you're back crazy experience and that is pretty YouTube challenge. So like doing that definitely showed me like like you're capable of so much, those seals that day were like, listen, when you think you're done, when you think you're done, not just like, I'm tired, I'm done.

1:07:20When you think you're truly done, you have 40 % left in the tank. And you need to tell yourself that every single time when you're on the field, when you think you're done, 40 % left, keep pushing. And I was like, damn, I'm gonna live by that. And like, obviously I'm not a ABCO by any means or anything, but like that stuck with me. And when I get in those moments, I think there's still 40, like that still sticks with me, 40 % left. When I'm on marathon and I'm at mile 24, still 40 % left sadly. Yeah, I wonder, again, how many people would benefit from really formative experiences like that? You know, it's such an opportunity for you to do it as a college athlete, but most people get out of that.

1:07:58You know, I hear about these alpha boot camp things that are happening. I know the owners. And there's a bunch of them. Bedross has been on the show, brilliant if you know him. And it's kind of easy to mock online because the storyline tells you too much. It's just way too easy of a headline where someone says, man pays $10 ,000 to have dude with beard and full sleeve shouted him while he doesn't sleep. You know, it's a funny headline. But when you actually look at what those kinds of formative experiences maybe teach you, and the fact that you got to learn that at 18, yeah. The reason that it's a bit, that people think it's a bit cringe, and it might be cringe, or I'm not too sure, the reason that people think it's a bit cringe is why are you at 45, needing this?

1:08:49And you go, well, what have you never had it before? Exactly. What have you never pushed yourself to that place before? Normal person, what point in your life, are you going beyond that 40 % line that you think is your normal one? Even someone that runs marathon, if they're preparing for six months or a full year for it, it should be a relatively sure thing. Unless you've got some sort of weird pathology in your heart blows up halfway. It's a difficult and impressive, but relatively, and then you're okay, what about an Ironman? Well, okay, even with that, the point is that you're training to be able to do the thing.

1:09:25Yeah. It would be almost like, I see what you're saying. Doing something that you're almost not prepared for to torture yourself so much that you will gain a much more valuable lesson than if you prepared for it. You have a course, which is crazy. And going through that, I'm very great. This is where the moments where I then look back at my dad setting me up in these situations where I'm like, thank you so much for even though it was rocky at times. Thank you so much for making me go do this because there's a reason I'm in the position I am. There's a reason I can handle so much and there's a reason that I can push myself so much and all falls back to being in the rain, the hail, the snow, throwing the ball a million times, and I'm like, why are we doing this?

1:10:04It all makes sense now. And the way liver king is, is why I respect him so much. And yes, he has his had his scandals, but as a man, and you could argue this because he lied, whatever. As a man that I know, as he's like a friend of mine, I see his sons, and then I see the way he is with them, and how it's similar to my father, and the way that he pushes them, and the way that my dad pushed me, and I look at it, I told them, and I said, I know it might not make sense now. What your dad is doing and how you gotta do the barbarian, you gotta be strict with your diet or whatever. I'm like, it's gonna make, give it 10 years, you're gonna thank him.

1:10:39And I promise, I promise they will. I won't say I promise, but 99%, there might be one percent chance that they will. And that's like one of those things where doing hard things is so necessary. And I think even if you're 45, I mean, what age is born buffing become a billionaire or a millionaire, wasn't like 40 or 50 years? It took a long time. Oh, let's make fun of his freaking self, for why weren't you a millionaire younger bro? Like no, he's a billionaire now. Like it doesn't matter what time you start, what age you start. I think the fact is that not everyone has the opportunity to go to a D1 lacrosse program on a scholarship and have a dad push them and care for them that much with that.

1:11:17He wants to put him in that scenario where you end up going, do those things and learn those lessons at 18. So it's unrealistic. Some people do have to learn lessons in adulthood that they should have learned in childhood. And there's a million lessons to learn. And it's kind of, it is very strange in a world where we want people to be more resilient. There is an odd amount of sort of teasing and pity and mocking for people that take stuff seriously when they get into later life. And you go, okay, it's not far off the developmental equivalent of mocking a fat person going to the gym. Yeah, we go, the exact thing that they need is the thing that they're trying to do.

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1:12:25I rely on function because it's evidence -based and run by a team of expert physicians so that you can trust that the data and insights you receive are scientifically sound and unbiased. Plus, Dr Andrew Huberman is a scientific advisor and Dr Mark Hyman is the chief medical officer. Function has a weight list of over 300 ,000 people, but every Monday they open a few spots for modern wisdom listeners. So right now if you go to the link in the description below or head to functionhealth .com slash modern wisdom You can bypass that wait list today. That's functionhealth .com slash modern wisdom Speaking of fat person going to the gym you competed recently You got me a fat person before Cleaner.

1:13:05I was less lean true. You competed Yes, what was that process like? What's it feel like to be done lean? terrible So I'll explain. Once again, this is sort of a scenario where it's, I tend to do things in a much shorter period of time than you're supposed to. One, because it's like a new challenge that I think is different than everyone else's challenge, that maybe I just dim drawn to. But then secondly, I think it's more interesting for videos and real life and more realistic for me. I can't devote a year to training. I could, but like, realistically, I got other three other 30 day videos I want to make this year.

1:13:44So I can't devote a year to training for a marathon. I only got 30 days and then when that's done, I got the next 30 day challenge. We can about 5 a .m. and you can't do multiple at once unless you want to be shit. So restate the question, sorry. What does it feel like to be that lean? What does it feel like to be that lean? So the process of losing that much fat in such a short space of time. So you're looking at like a bodybuilding prep. It's 16 weeks. I did mine in let's say eight. I'm always pretty lean. I never really bulked past like 15 % body fat. The first week or two is, you know, like you're like, it's tough, you're doing cardio, whatever, maybe you're tired.

1:14:18But the last like three weeks, we're so, so tiring and like emotionally stealing in a way where I literally felt nothing. Like I was like corpse, you could look at me in the eyes and you could be like, you're thinking nothing right now. Now you have no emotion and everyone experiences prep different. Some people look at it in a very beautiful way and they're, they love seeing the changes in their body. For me, it was tough seeing the changes, like, did it looking back at photos? Damn, I was shredded. But then in the moment, it's very odd because you look at yourself and you pinch the side of your body and I'm like, I'm not even that lean.

1:14:59This atmosphere is strong. I'm so skinny right now. Like, I don't look like sea bum. I look stupid. I'm not. I'm posing and my legs aren't even touching, they're so skinny. You start really picking at all these negative things in your head. If I wasn't making content around it, I think that definitely helped keep my mind off that sort of dysmorphic thought. It was like, okay, we have a mission here. We're making awesome videos at the same time. I can focus on that more. but it definitely took a huge toll my relationship. I literally, like every single emotion I just didn't have. Like I couldn't feel happy.

1:15:38I couldn't feel sad, I honestly don't really deal with too much hunger, which is like a gift. It's just lack of energy. I feel like lethargic of, I feel like I know my blood sugars love. What is it? Hypoglycymic. I feel very hypoglycymic all the time. And I was like, this is just brutal. Just get to the end date. The show is a very fun experience. It's very rewarding. It's awesome being on stage, you know, yelling, most muscular, posing against people, awesome experience. Highly recommend everybody to do it maybe once, or at least, they everybody should get pretty lean once to experience what it's like to one, look at your best and two, really see the different type of hard work it takes to get to the next level of body conditioning because my level, and then there's even so much farther that C -bum goes and every other competitor out there, I just named him because I feel like, what do you think you got down to?

1:16:30Great to say it said 6%. Okay. So even let's say 6 and a half to be friendly. Yep. Pretty lean. Pretty lean. And as a natural, my hormones were tanked, like 200 nanograms test, 200 free, like, oh my God dude. Thankfully, still works. Come back. Still works, don't worry. But the feeling of 200 tests is absolutely horrible. And that's like one reason why I just like, I don't have a desire to compete. Any more slash for a very long time. What was the hardest part of it?

1:17:03I feel like accepting, you know what it is? The hardest part is that same anxiety, fight where you're like, I'm so uncomfortable and your body wants to tense internally and fight this uncomfortability feeling rather than empathetically activated. Yeah, rather than just like, like I talked to Chris about this recently and he was like, you have to just know that this is your choice. You can stop if you want. And it almost I feel like he has that like where he can turn that that internal battle against it and a lot of other Successful bodybuilders have that ability. I haven't learned it yet. But it's the same as you were saying I've got to get up at six in the morning.

1:17:37I'm gonna get up at six in the morning as opposed to I'm just I'm just I'm just going to get up at six. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's so funny, man. I think it's it's cool to see You're like an elite normal. You know what I mean? You're kind of a representation for nobody looks and goes, see bum, genetic freak, once in a generation body builder, with a fantastic background, the perfect nutrition, and a little bit of hormonal help, and all the rest of it. So when I ask him, he's on the show this week, when I speak to him about what prep feels like, what theory of mind have I got to know what it's like to be crispum stud the body, not?

1:18:18But I feel like you're just elite normal. You're just like no way way to put it. Dude, we gotta take my teams behind there. We gotta take notes and that's gonna help. That's gonna help like ideas. The best of the nominees. Because if you think about it, it's like that's, I didn't elite normal thing, the marathon. Elite normal thing, wake up at 5 a .m. for 30 days. It's not really that much elite, that's more normal. Colt plunge everyday. That's just kind of having a kid. Yeah, or we had a puppy in the same thing. Yep. But yeah, I think another experience that really stands out to me. This is kind of tangy, but an experience that I want to talk about that truly changed my life was with Wim Hof and That was oh my god.

1:18:58That was such a Magical experience doing that in person because we know what the Wim Hof method does I'm sure if you've ever done the the breathing Yeah, of course, so we know we know how good that breath that breathwork feels the ice bath You get in door fins, but imagine doing it with the dude. That's like the guy creator of it almost Do you know what I mean? And that kind of person, really, I felt so like safe with him. And I come in, first thing we do, he's like, let's, what's Finland? Uh, Netherlands, Netherlands. They're all the same. I'm like, where am I going? I shouldn't say that this bloated, you're not listening in Finland.

1:19:33But did he do that thing where you have to penguin dive off the, he did it. I didn't. I was like, that's a little dream. That water is gotta be like 31 .9 degrees Fahrenheit. But yeah, first thing he does, dive in the cold water. I'm like, oh, oh my God. And I'm like, I'm a little familiar. I've been taking cold showers to prepare for this video. And I'm like, all right, we're in it. Let's go. And then we do, we do some abs. We do some breath work. And I want to talk about the breath work because that was the most like spiritual awakening moment I've ever had in my life. He does four, three, four rounds of breath work, one minute, one and a half, two, two and a half, three.

1:20:10And you hold your breath for those lengths of period. the time period that I just mentioned. And we get to the second or last round, and I'm at two, two and a half, I'm feeling so safe with him. And I'm like, you know, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna like not fight it. And you could have that anxiety about this, but I'm here, let's make it happen. Hold my breath. Two and a half minutes go by. That man on the dot, my sister was there timing, the two and a half on the dot. He goes, and time, and my sister was like, She didn't even say anything. It was 229 .9. And it was like, this dude, another level.

1:20:46And then we do the three minute. And I hope my breath for three minutes, Shre, it feels like 30 seconds, it flies by, I open my eyes. And I have just this insane euphoric feeling. I don't know if I was dying, and maybe that's what you're supposed to feel when you die. I just insane euphoric feeling, I open my eyes. I see my sister, I have my cameraman, I have Wim, and this feeling of just purity of love, and I'm just like gratitude and nothing else mattered. It was almost like I was born into this exact moment, and I knew nothing about the universe, and it was just how you're supposed to feel.

1:21:21It was crazy. And that was a very life -changing moment. I've done the breathing a few times since then, and probably need to get back and do it. But that and the ice bath, the man's onto something. And I don't know what happened inside my brain, but that was the most content and like happy feeling, like a different type of happy. It was just, I had to share that. It was a crazy experience. It really does clear your mind in a crazy way. If you do some forced breath work, Wim Hofbrie thing, whatever you wanna call it, the last time, have you ever done it and passed out? No, I've seen people. Okay, so I've pushed it a little bit hard in a couple of breath work classes in Austin, and you sort of come back around and you've got whoever the facilitator is with that hand on your chest sort of chilling you out.

1:22:11They do something with your neck. Maybe it's to do with your nerve here or the blood flow here, I'm not really too sure. But I always see the same fucking cat. Every time I do it, this fucking cat pops up. It's just this face looking at me. What? I don't know what's, I don't know what it is. That's the DMT being released in your brain, bro. Maybe it is. Would you, are you ever gonna pivot into psychedelic bro, I did, I wasca every day, I have a dilemma. Oh, I did, that's Conor Murphy right there. Yeah, well, exactly. Drinking semen. So, I haven't tried that yet. So, Psychedelics, I have friends that have done it.

1:22:48I have people that are close to my life that I have done it. And no judge me whatsoever, cool, do whatever you want. For me, I feel that I almost have, A little bit of an enlightened mindset as is that I feel like I've awakened from reaching a point of peace when I left Lehigh in 2018 when I was 18 years old and I quit. I had this like super spiritual awakening moment where I could not describe it, but I could like sense your energy in like the most pure way I'm like you are full. Like I don't I couldn't just I don't know what language I needed to speak it, but I'm like you're full you're half you're like I've a sound I thought I was fucking crazy dude I probably was.

1:23:32And I feel like that sort of opened my mind and like, well, maybe the mind is capable of just naturally experiencing all these crazy phenomenon things. And I feel like I also have this undoubtedly belief in myself that maybe a psychedelic would open up for somebody else and like gratitude, like they'd open up. And I have a good base of that. And I don't want to fuck with it. So that's like my mindset of the S .S .R .I .s in S .S .A .A. Exactly. It's like my mind, I'm happy. I love my life. Like beautiful fiance, family's healthy, got a dog, got a house, like my life is awesome. I truly am grateful.

1:24:08My fans are amazingly support me, all that stuff. So it's like one of those things where it's like, if I do this, there's a chance that it goes, there's always, I've heard you hear the horror stories of it going south and I'm like, why would I mess this up? Everything's good. Writing so high. If I find a need where I need an awakening, I don't know, maybe, but like, I also like, I've literally never done anything stronger than smoking pot when I was like a teenager like once and I've never done any Brain type of not I've never touched that or all never done cocaine nothing at all I probably will die never doing it which I'm fine with but I just I'm very like protective of where my mind is and The trajectory of how my mind develops naturally and stuff where I'm like I don't need I don't need something to alter I don't need more.

1:24:56I'm already, I'm on that ride on my own. I don't need that kick. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm, maybe I'll be a billionaire if I took something crazy shit, you know what? Or maybe you'll turn into conomer fee and have a, it's one of those things you don't want to risk, you know? I told you'll break down. Yeah, just going back to the getting lean thing, there was this news article I saw recently. YouTube is to limit recommendations of certain health and fitness videos to teenagers, including those which may idealize certain body types. It says 13 to 17 year old users will still be able to search for and view fitness related content, but will not be encouraged into repeated viewing of similar videos.

1:25:30YouTube says it is acting because of concerns that repeated exposure to such material can leave young people to develop negative beliefs about themselves. The platform says this will no longer be offered for teens when they can view certain types of content, including videos that compare physical features and idealizes some types over others, videos idealizing specific fitness levels or body weights, videos displaying social aggression in the form of non -contact fights and intimidation. The measures were being taken after its youth and families advisory committee found that teens are more likely than adults to form negative beliefs about themselves when seeing repeated messages about ideal standards in content they consume online.

1:26:09What do you think of that? I think it's very stupid because, and if YouTube's watching, I love you guys as a platform, but this is dumb because think about it like this. Okay, fitness might influence a teenager to do steroids, let's say, I have a video coming out on that. But the music videos that are dudes swinging guns or idolizing weird things that like there's always conspiracy behind like crazy, you know, music videos and stuff and I don't care what it looks like, but that can just as well influence a teenager to go try smoking pot or go hang out with the wrong crowd or something. Like you could be influenced by literally anything and also I think this is why I don't think it's Going to happen because the amount of money that fit it CPMs in fitness are well They're not the best but they're probably One of the top 10 go finance.

1:27:02They're not saying finance, but they're right there, dude Like right below it on the next year. She's so many supplements Cpgs exactly so YouTube be shooting themselves in the foot because there's so much content that's just I wonder how much is derived from 13 to 17 year old age brackets. That's a good point. Or everyone's just gonna lie about their age and nothing's gonna change and they're gonna make new accounts. I do think you're right that... I think the advertising is way too lucrative on advertising on these videos. I mean, dude, I'm getting like one million to five million views in every video.

1:27:35You're gonna cut my ads. Good for you. You're gonna make no money. I'm gonna go for it and start a Patreon. Yeah. Yeah, like the negative beliefs thing Seems odd given that we just went through a body positivity movement that was glorifying people being big So it's okay. So not only are we glorifying fat people? We're also now limiting your ability to see people who might actually be fit. I mean think about just think about the entire generation Mine into yours. Do you I was the start of it with sort of Ziz, Matt Ogis, then bleeding down, I guess, into the Matt does fitness, see sort of Mike Thurston type stuff now into your era.

1:28:16All of us were brought into this because of YouTube. The weird thing is, is that, one, I've asked my YouTube rep, like I'm like, please tell me this is false. And he's like, Oh, so you brought this up? I straight up sent it to YouTube, one of the employees, and I was like, there's no way this is true, right? Like, I'm like, and if it becomes true, you need to tell me ASAP. He didn't think it's like real. He was like, first thing he said was cap, and then I was like, okay, what color hat? I'm kidding, that's stupid joke. And so he says like, he thinks that, and then I said that, I said I'm in that article that you just read, and I'm like, are you sure?

1:28:54And he's like, I don't know, he's like, it just sounds like it wouldn't be like plausible. But hypothetically, let's say it does. This is what's gonna happen to the fitness industry. There's gonna be a huge divide of people that, I don't wanna say that they're not intelligent enough, but they're not, let's say, social networking aware enough to adapt. To be able to bypass it. They're gonna be like, oh fuck this, I'm gonna keep doing what I want, and they're just gonna hurt themselves, they're really dumb mindset. How many people did a 13 to 17 watching your videos? Dude, as I get bigger, it's getting more and more interesting.

1:29:25There's like kids out there, I'll be able to go grocery store, and they're like, you see what TikTok and stuff, and I'm like, all right, I'm watching. I'm like, what video's you watching, bro? But it's like one of those things where, one, I find it hard to believe that'll happen. And if it does, I have the unbelievable, I have the believability in myself that it's like, I'm good. I'll pivot, bro. Yeah, come at me. You know, I don't know how big your 13 to 17 year old fan bases. But I don't know, it's an interesting, It's an interesting challenge because I would have been very disempowered, I think, watching YouTube and seeing fitness advice from the internet.

1:30:09It's also such woolly language. What are you going to do like Jeff Nipper? Is Jeff Nipper going to be sent in? It's an evidence -based lifting saying that... It's like, okay, then in every video, I'm just going to call a doctor and say, this is evidence, right? Yes, thank you there. Check. Send in for review. Again. There's going to be, there's a rule there's a way around it. That's how I see it. What? You've done a million videos with Ronnie Coleman. Yes. I get sad when I see him. Okay. I mean, I know he's still got the sort of yeah, buddy thing, but he's also a largely a man that's crippled.

1:30:43Yeah, you know. Is it tough being around him? It was something definitely like to get used to at first, because I shot five videos with him total, some with him, you know, and I was with the young LA before Jim Shark and I would be at events with him, I always love seeing him. There's been a few times where it's been like, genuinely, I felt very bad. And the few times where it's like, I've completely forget and I think almost he's forgetting and he's just like, he's just Ronnie. He's very authentic, which is awesome. I have a blast with him every time I see him. The one time where I was like, damn, bro, this is like kind of brutal, like, to see, because I mean, he's a legend.

1:31:19and he was obviously not crippled at one point and fully thriving. And it was when we were at his gym in Texas, in Dallas, Metro Flex, Arlington. And the equipment is so damn congested there, and he trains her all the time. So clearly he like does not mind. But his inability to maneuver from just like one area to the next and everybody's like pausing and maybe He was basically disabled access. Oh, not at all. It was like horrible setup for him, but like obviously, he's just home base. He likes to be. So he feels good. But it was like, I was like, do you want to help him? Do you want to like, hey, you need help get it better?

1:32:00Is it patronizing? It's exactly, I don't want it. I don't want to feel, I always, my biggest thing with anybody I'm ever with, I don't care if you're fucking Duane the Rock Johnson or Joe Schmode on the street. I always go into my shoots or like meeting people with just like, what's up bro? Like there's no, like no difference. Because I don't I don't want anyone to ever feel like I look at them in a certain way or I'm Utilizing over idolizing them and that bothers them everyone ever idolizes me whatever like you know what I mean So I wish just he's Ronnie's a dude you know whatever So I didn't want to push boundaries too far and then one time another time We were on a boat and stuff we're on a yacht.

1:32:34It was Ronnie's fucking yacht in Dubai I'm just chilling downstairs and he was very content and I was like Ronnie you want to thank very chill chilling And I'm obviously I don't know what's going through his head and it's one of those things like you know back in the day Maybe he'd be up there frunken fist pumping and shit He was always like a very extraverted person still is to a degree, but I think it's one of those things where When you talk to him and you talk to him out you have a you're I asked him Jim and your regrets and your grits And like what you've done and he's like no no that's true I mean he's he tells me his only regret is that he didn't go for seven or eight reps on his eight -and -a -pound squat And then he says, yeah, buddy.

1:33:13And I'm like, I believe it, but I think maybe you never know. You know, I think you should have a pain as he in days to days, you know? I've heard many things. I just, I don't know. Yeah, because I'd heard that he said, my pain is always at night out of town. And I take the maximum dose of whatever that pain killer is that's super, super strong. He's doing a lot of stem cells. Okay. And he says it with every treatment, it gets better and better and better. That's good. So, you know? Yeah, it's, it is uncomfortable to see, dude. and it's so odd as well, because you've got Jay Cutler, who is as far as I can tell, perfectly functional.

1:33:48We were with Phil Heath. I talked to him about it. We have Phil Heath today. Phil Heath's healthy. Again. Playing basketball. Yeah, dicking around. I think that's the importance of realizing, I mean, right now I have a slip disc in my back and like, I'm not able to squat, not, I could if I like, go into my head. But like, shouldn't squat, shouldn't deadlift, all that stuff, yeah. But it's those type of things where, you know, when people say like careful squatting, careful deadlifting, you're gonna mess up your knees, you're gonna mess up your back and you're like, no I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm invincible.

1:34:17Until you wake up and you're like, shit. The hood. I just, I broke something or just, you gotta be careful. Yeah, it's a nice man. Back some knees are two things that you just gotta be super, super sensitive with. Yep. You know, the end of my hardcore fitness career was two bulging discs in my back. and then I just thought, right, okay, it took, it was uncomfortable for maybe three or four years for me to realize, okay, you can't do what you used to do responsibly. You can do it, but you're just rolling the dice. What did you do to fix it? Just stop doing things like that? So, Stu McGill's big three.

1:34:55I heard that. Yep, so you should speak to Stu about back pain. I can intro you if you want. Please. He'd love to speak to you. He is the number one lower back pain specialist on the planet. He's done a lot of the studies, the original studies at Waterloo that much of sort of back pain science was built on. I get the sense that the field is continuing to progress now. I haven't spoken to him about my stuff in a little while. Tapped into him before I went and did stem cells in Medellin last year. I was just about to ask you have irritant stem cells. I did stem cells in my life. What's your experience like?

1:35:27Bio -excelerator. Okay, I know them. So Columbia yep, yep, yeah, Medi -ing Psychologically neutral quite an enjoyable experience the service is very good physically very rough Really so for me because I got sight injections so I had Intraarticular into the shoulder capsule and my rotator cuff. There's no anisetic Into the quad tendon above and below the patellar and then into my Achilles that I ruptured straight into the tendon. So the ones that I got, I got every Lumberfacet joint down my back. I got one intradiscal injection into one of the bulging discs. One of them was so bad that they weren't even prepared to do it.

1:36:12The other one they did, but you're under general anesthetic for that. So you just go to sleep, you wake up, you're like, oh, sweet, that's all being done. But the ones in my knee and the ones in my shoulder was maybe an eight out of 10 pain. The one in my knee I'm bouncing off the bed screaming. The nurse left, this nurse who's conditioned at seeing this stuff, because it's a tiny little tendon like that, that this guy is trying to fit viscous fluid into. Yeah. And you think, oh well, dude. At least that's the pain over and done with, and then the inflammation response comes. Yeah. And it is, I had to walk like the tin man out of, uh, fucking whatever that movie is.

1:36:48And I can't bend my knees. Oh. For days, I was at, you know, Al -Germain Sterling, he was the Phantom Weight or Flyweight, whatever the super lightweight thing in the UFC. He was a champion and he got his wrists done when he was there. His neck and his wrists done. So he was my lab part and my clinic partner for the week. His wrists hurt so much. He couldn't pick up a phone. So the weight of a phone was so much that it caused his pain, his wrists, it means a ton of pain. So basically pretty uncomfortable, but it's a unique category of pain because you know that it's in service of making me better.

1:37:30So almost all pain, you put your hand over a flame and you know that you're gonna need a skin graft. You break your leg and you wonder whether or not you're going to ever be able to walk the same again. But this pain, as long as you have faith in the doctors which I did, you go, this is kind of like the suffering that you go through before something great happens on the other side of it. So again, you know, one of the themes today has been the story that you tell yourself largely determines your experience of the thing that you're going through. So the story I'm telling myself is I'm screaming bouncing off this bed, but there was no fear.

1:38:01It wasn't wrapped in terror or worry or anxiety. It's just straight pain. Yeah. All right, I'll shout and scream and call the doctor a couple of names. So that was interesting for me. I did for a long time, I mean, I've done thousands of hours of that one routine that he came up with. I've done it around the world, I've done it on a paddle board, I've done it in hotel rooms, I've done it in my show. I can show you. So that's helped. And then his main thing is he causes people, advises people to keep a neutral spine, so he calls it spinal hygiene. So the book is a back mechanic by Stu. It's a little bit expensive, it's about $60, $60, but it's really good.

1:38:44And what he's advising is, don't bend at the waist when you need to tie your shoes. If you're brushing your teeth at the basin, most people just hinge from the hips, but you can actually support by having one hand to brush your teeth. And the other can actually be relieving a little bit of the weight by putting your hand on your thigh or putting your hand on the basin. And he's got an advice for how you get up and get down off the ground without going into spinal flexion. So the whole goal is to just get your back to chill out. But it's a very, especially if you have a full -on back attack with a slip disk where you were locked in.

1:39:20No, no. Okay. I like woke up and just like couldn't not bend backwards. Okay. So if you, even going through that, his suggested protocol is just so slow and kind of frustrating. But now I have no pain. I can sit and stand for as long as I want. I don't I'd left but step ups lunges, reverse lunges, walking lunges, leg press. All of that is fine. And I'm sure I probably could squat if I wanted. I just think I think I can achieve the same gains without doing that. So yeah, I pivot. One of the other things I was interested in asking you, So you've worked out with a variety of non -typically fit people, like inmates and gang members and stuff like that.

1:40:11Who are some of the sort of secret, fittest guys that you've been around that you wouldn't have all of? Construction workers. Right. Dude, I mean, I found the strongest ones that exist, basically. Where do you find strong construction workers? You hire a really good producer. Right. right. And on Instagram, they were, they do construction and they were freaks of nature, definitely on some sauce, definitely not naity. I'd say another one would be the X convicts. I mean, that's like stereotypical. They work out a ton. They were very, they're, they're more just jacked. Big hands on the construction work as I imagine.

1:40:50Monsters hands. You know, it's really, you know what's really, who has really good strength is like arm wrestlers. At least they're arms, like Insta -Duh, the sheer strength of Devon Lair's hands, I tried to, and even David Lade won against him, like two hands, you go, dude, you're never getting anywhere. Arm wrestlers are built differently. Their tendons have just calcified, probably, from all the scar tissue. I did one arm wrestling competition. I was walking like a T -Rex for like a week, because I could not move my arms. And for them to do hours and hours and hours, I can't imagine what their tendons look like.

1:41:26Dude, that's so cool. Jesse James West, ladies and gentlemen, dude, I appreciate the hack out of you. Where should people go? Don't keep up to date with you. Guys, check out the YouTube channel, Jesse James West, and stay relentless. That's cool. Thanks, man. Thank you, Rob. Thank you for having me, seriously. We did it. All right. You guys got my check? No.