#901 - Tom Segura - Why Does The Modern World Make No Sense?

26:35I was doing some research. Yeah, I was just like, no, kind of I do. Yeah, now it's like, yeah, like my buddy, Bert, looks at like just like poverty, stricken people, preparing meals. So it's just like somebody like really lower income being like, this is all I have and they're making lunch. and then like he's like, yeah, I'm just fascinated by this. I'm like, what the fuck? And he's just like, and if you look at his phone, it's just like people below the poverty line making me. It's a feedback loop. Yeah. I had a guy on the book on artificial intelligence, the textbook that was used worldwide in like 100 languages, something like that.

27:13And Stuart Russell, he said this is a really interesting thing. There's two ways that algorithms can be better at predicting what it is that you're going to click on. one is that they continue to feed you clickable content. But the other one, it's bidirectional. The other one is to nudge your preferences so that you become easier to predict. I was like, hmm. Ha, that makes so much sense. Because all that it's looking to do is maximize clicks. Yes. But there's two people in this. There's both the content that's being served and there's the preferences of the person that's clicking. So over time, these algorithms nudge people's preferences and how easy is it to predict what somebody will or will not click on them by pushing them out to the fringe of any viewpoint.

27:56If you are, I know exactly what you're going to like and what you're going to hate because you're out on the right, you're out on the left, you're at the top, on the bottom or whatever. Super easy. If you're in the middle, and you're like, I'm going to fall this way, I'm not so bothered about that, really, really hard. So I was like, huh, I haven't ever heard anybody talk about the other direction of how algorithms work by nudging your preferences to be more predictable, not by getting better at serving you stuff that it knows you're going to click on. Yeah. That's really fascinating. It's scary too, the way it does.

28:21I've actually utilized the thing a lot on Instagram, uh, the not interested, because like sometimes you're like, the fuck is all what? Why is this here? And you start to like hit that because hopefully just to get like something new. Try it. Yeah. There's a, I remember this was on Facebook ages ago, but uh, the power of saying don't show me this page again. I'll show me a few posts like this, a hundred to one, I think, compared with a like. So it's so right, right? It's so much more effortful, feet. He's not interested in this thing. So yeah, I mean, that's the trade. Oh, you can just completely, you know, 500 days of summer it and decide to get by.

28:57Have you done that? Have you done a totally like, no, I only found out about it yesterday. So I'd consider it. I think I'd probably well unplug. Oh yeah. Well, no, just reset. I don't. I'd spent a week in Jamaica where I didn't have my phone. Does that count? No, that doesn't, Wasn't that though like a type of experience for you the fact that you like I have friends that like are really at like have done the thing where they They give the the account to somebody else to post. They're like this is just rotting my brain spending weight too much time and A couple of them that I can think of told me that it made them so much happier.

29:32So in other words, they just go Here are the pat here's the password I'll tell you when to post things. I don't want to have anything to do with it anymore. Mm -hmm I think a lot of people like that, but one of the things I realized when I was in Jamaica was if you don't have any, so this was the week leading up to TikTok ban, all of that stuff, if you have to self -generate things to talk about, it's really interesting because you get to places that are a little bit deeper, they're a little bit more interesting, but on the flip side, like you realize how reliant you are on. You see that, blah, blah, blah, blah, that happened this morning?

30:05Oh, you notice that Trump said to do this, this is this thing. You go, okay, so not only is it sort of capturing my time and my attention, it's even like getting inside of me and staring out through my own eyes and making noises come out of my mouth. Yeah, because you're part of it is that you feel like you're in the game, right? Like it's contributing. Yeah, and also like if you're completely unplugged, then you're one of those people that's just like, huh, what happened? A healthcare guy got shot? Like, you don't want to be that guy. You don't want to be like, I doesn't know anything. So there is this kind of balance of, do you want to be in the game?

30:41Or you don't want to be obsessed also with, because I do this thing when I, especially when I'm alone, right? Or you do the cycle. I call it like where I go like YouTube, Instagram, emails, TikTok, YouTube, like it's all the same. Or whatever. Yeah, what's that? And then you just, you're just like, Well, like, the hard thing for me is when you get back from a show, like, I'm on the road, you have to show, you're in your room, and you're like, all right, it's time to like, actually go to bed soonish. I'm just gonna look for a side of the time. Yeah, and that's like, you get into that loop. It's like you have to have the discipline to just be like.

31:21Now, it's the advantage of being around people, and it's the disadvantage if you spend a lot of time in your own, because you like, assuage your feelings of loneliness by having a friend. You go, I'm not gonna feel alone. I don't need to feel bored. I don't need to have to whatever. You're okay with the persons here. It's like fun can fuck off. And think about it. It's gonna be a great conversation with a friend. I'm not thinking about it. The second that they leave, like, at board again. Yeah. And it's like the second, the Miller second, correct. Yeah, I mean, sometimes you're just like, like I mean, when some, it's like, I'm gonna go to the bathroom and be like, okay.

31:53It's like, it's so, it's so immediate. Yeah. It is a drug. I got, I got followed. It was a couple of weeks ago now. there's a period for about two weeks where tons and tons of Latino and Spanish accounts were following me. That's like that's a fucking red flag. And like some things happened in Spanish somewhere and I can't read it, I can't decipher it, I don't know what has caught but something upstream is it? Is it AI translated all your shit? No, no, it was just like maybe someone or something had got a hold of something that I'd said. I'm like this could be positive, this could be the beginning of me fucking starting some sort of war with like the country of Mexico.

32:28I don't know. But I just said, I had no idea what was going on. I'm like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Like being followed by, it was the same Whitney Cummings told me that after she did that CNN thing, tons of comedians texted her saying that was so funny. She's like immediate red flag. If lots of comedians text you and say that the thing you just did on TV was funny, huge warning sign, massive fucking warning sign. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the, Wait, did you figure out what, no? Still no, I'm just like, this is an open loop. I'm flying in the dark here. I mean, I do. Yeah, comedians complimenting you definitely makes you go like hmm.

32:59I fucked up. Yeah, I did something wrong. I went to this daytime house music party in Austin on Saturday called Mushroom Cowboy. So it's my good host to kind of event. I don't know. I think they're kind of hinting at that, but it's in a coffee one. It's outside of a coffee shop off Congress. Yeah. So I turn up at half turn. It started at 10 and the queue is 250 yards long for coffee. Right. And there must have been 1 ,500 people there. One guy brought a baguette, was raving with his baguette. Those dogs, you know, pretty sober looking from the outside. Maybe some people smoke in weed. But I think this is maybe the beginning of a seeing the end of like a hardcore drink culture.

33:42If you've looked at how few of Gen Z now drink, it's I think maybe 20%. The interesting thing is like the theories on why, because there's obviously, they have to be theories, right? On, on, we don't actually know exactly. Yeah. Uh, one of them is that people, the youth views drinking as like what their parents did, right? So that's like, that's not truly uncool. Yeah. My fucking lame ass dad drinks. Like, I don't, I'm not interested. And so that's one thing. The other part of it is that this group of people that are the youth right now are so much more informed on what the negative aspects of drinking and what it can do to you, that they're just like, why would I, you know, why would I object to something like that?

34:38and that they found this whole other, you know, when you want to take the edge off, there's a lot more options, and it's also a lot more accepted today than it was 20 years ago, like the idea that you could microdose or do edibles or smoke, or you know what I mean? And then there's like all the, you know, ketamine and everything is like, I have different things that I do when I want it to have a recreational good time. And yeah, but it's undeniable that it's definitely way down. There's more daily users in the US of weed now than there are of alcohol. Is that for real? Overtake it. At least that was the most recent study that I saw in the US that I'm more daily or near daily marijuana users than daily or near daily alcohol users.

35:21And that thought was just completely, like if you're a teen right now, you don't understand how preposterous that sounds coming from, like if you were growing up in the 80s and 90s, Like you were just like, those were like, fringe people almost. I mean, like yes, it was popular, but it was not like a respectable person really wasn't doing that. It was like the arts, it was like hippies. And yeah, I mean, people thought of it as like the absolute worst thing that could happen. I mean, people from like my dad's generation likened marijuana to heroin. They didn't even see like really a difference.

36:01So you're just like, you're junky. It's like, but life for smoking a joint. And like, yeah, that's the way they viewed it. So the fact that it's that accepted now, it's mind blowing to me. I wonder if some of it is that drinking in the house on your own feels pretty fucking bad. Smoking in the house on your own. You're like, I'm just watching, I'm playing Call of Duty. Leave me alone. But if you're six B is deep playing Call of Duty, it's a different story. Yeah, and you're not playing well at that. You're just like, I don't know how well people are playing and we died in. But yeah, yeah, you're probably more likely to yell out pejorative slurs.

36:37Yeah, I think that, I mean, look, smoking is still not good for you. So like, you're probably, but we've discovered that, you know, there's other ways to ingest and like consume. And that's what I think is part of like this youth culture thing about staying away from drinking is they're like, whatever, I do droplets in this or I, you know, I have my gummy or whatever, how are they when I consume? But they're just, they're definitely not drinking man. They're not drinking like they like everybody else before them did. I used to run nightclubs for ages and one of the big downturns we've seen has been in nightlife industry.

37:12I think the UK is losing a nightclub a week. There's not like an unlimited number of nightclubs. It's like one is shutting down pretty much every single week. And I asked a friend who's still in the industry why he thought that was the case. He said smartphones man. Back in the day, You could be as loose as you wanted you could sort of have that Larry lauti Drink in spirit at least in in bread and I don't want to be recorded of course Yeah, like if you mess up and like shake yourself in the middle of a nightclub in 2002 it's a story that you can deny the next day Yeah, and then after six months most people are probably forgotten Yeah, whereas if that happens in 2025 that's now Concretized on the internet for everybody to know and bring back up and make memes out of the rest of time I mean, it's, but imagine like how the pro athletes of the 80s and 90s and early 2000s would just go out and just

38:03Just destroy This destroy a woman's hopes and dreams and then now they're all the other like everyone's on edge Yeah, everyone's got a Phone out. It's just yeah, it's it's a totally different by the way, do you ever think about why as I still remember that like Why was house music and dancing in general so much bigger in Europe than here? People here would never like let's go dance. I'm not sure. I mean, I guess why does any scene of any kind appear anywhere? We certainly have in the UK a good house music culture. A lot of people didn't have much else to do, other than go out and party and drink.

38:43If the weather's bad, then we're not going to go out to the ranch. We're not going to go and see the sunset. we're not going to go to the beach, it's fucking freezing cold all the time. So you kind of just zero in on the one thing that's reliable, which is beer. Yeah. pubs are club. Yeah, yeah. Now, I just remembered like so many times like being in the States and having like European friends were like, why don't you guys you guys don't like to go dance? And I was like, no, we're not going dancing bro. Like, no. And then I would remember like studying abroad being like, oh yeah, we would, that was like a normal thing.

39:17just go to a place that was just packed and everybody just loud music dancing. It just was one of those things where I was like, it just didn't translate over here. I mean, there were still clubs, obviously, but it just wasn't the same type of, oh, I just want to go listen to this and literally dance. Like, that's what people, I felt like we're doing a lot more in Europe than here. Yeah, there's another study that just came out recently about rates of sexlessness. So this has sort of been talked about for ages. And there was this big study in 2018 that looked really scary and then it kind of got reversed in the GSS data.

39:49Then there's this new one. Rates of sexlessness are climbing among adults aged 22 to 34, starts plugged from the newly unsheathed national survey of family growth showed 10 % of young males and 7 % of their female counterparts saying they're still virgins. That's 22 to 34. Damn. In sum, for all young adults, adult male sexlessness has roughly doubled in all measures over the last 10 years for young females, it's risen by roughly 50%. So 24 % of men, 22 to 24, not had sex in 2022, from 9 % in 2013. And for females, the number was 13 % up from 8%. When asked if they'd had sex in the last three months, 35 % of men said no, jumping from 20 % and women didn't farm, fair much better with 31 % up from 21.

40:29So basically, not going out, not partying, not having sex. at like not socialize rates. Yeah, it seems so. Yeah. So there's a really real pervasive issue of loneliness is a real thing that most people don't think about if they're not lonely. If they have company, if they have friends, if they have relationships, you don't realize how many people are literally lonely people. Like they're alone. They don't have that companionship. And you take it for granted, I think, if it's not something that you have to deal with. You know, and then you I've have you met somebody who you realize Is lonely in this world and it it affects you.

41:10I it affected me like where you just go like oh this person just doesn't Have relationships like they're and there's you know There could be so many reasons why but what I'm saying is that it's so many more people than you think about When you're not in that position It's so many more people. So many people are lonely. I'm not surprised by it. The other thing about the sexual statistics, I was first surprised when I heard one of my friends has daughters that are a college age and was saying that he was like, yeah, she all through her adolescence in the high school everything just hung out with girls.

41:57and she's like, she's never had the experience of like, oh guys are aggressive, she was like, guys don't talk to us. Like that's the world that she grew up in, she was going to college and was like, you know, she was like, well, I'm hoping I don't get raped, but that's what she thinks of like men, is that like they're either predators, but she just didn't, predators run cells, those are the two choices. She was like, yeah, but like she just didn't have the experience of like boys trying to like hit on her or just even engage. She was just like with girls and then she was like, yeah guys, I think there's like a lot you can deduce from that.

42:40But some of it too is that like, is like about the guys, not necessarily about how those guys have been growing up in the last decade plus in a different environment than like we grew up in or the I grew up in, right? Which was like, they came up in this, sure, there's been like a, there's a feminism cycle that's always happening, but they also grew up in like me too and all this, these things that become report and like some of those boys become fearful of interacting with them. I'm like, well, I don't want to be seen as like this. And they just, what happens is they just wait. I'll, that'll happen later.

43:16Like my interaction So then they're 15, 16, 17. Now they're in college and they've still yet to interact. So they've got no experience to talk about. With no experience. So then it makes sense when you hear a statistic like, well, they're 22 or 24 and they're a version. It's like, they're still probably like, oh, that's going to happen later. Because me too happened is they were about to stop speaking to girls. I mean, to me, it seems like a pretty logical way to tie things in, right? And these were like the dominant stories. Remember, you couldn't get away from these stories. And so, I don't know if it's like build, I mean, you want to raise some butt -ev' boys, and you want to raise them in a healthy environment and teach them how to interact with the opposite sex.

43:57But I think if you don't have encouragement to try and talk and just be normal, and you're just like, you guys are the predators. It can be probably scary for some of those young kids. The huge problem with telling men don't be pushy is that the guys who need to hear it the most aren't going to take it. They're never going to. And the guys who really should be encouraged more are going to take it to hot. Yeah, that's true. It's like gun laws. How so? Well, I mean, like, you can have the strictest gun laws, but the people who really like who want guns are just going to fucking get them anyway. If it's sufficiently motivated, you'll find a way to look around.

44:37Yeah, you're just, I mean, gun laws are like, you know, they exist on paper, but like if you want a gun and you're like, I'm getting one and I'm going to shoot someone. Like, that's, you're not going to be like, oh shit, that's against the law. Like, you're just going to, you're just going to do what you want to do. You know what I mean? Like, so it's, it's those are the people that, that they write the laws for. They write them for those guys. Well, get back to talking to Tom in one minute, but first I need to tell you about But nomadic. Traveling should be about the journey, not, see that one hand, the chaos of packing, which is why I partnered with nomadic.

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46:26He's like Joe Pesci though. He's just like mother fucker and you're like, God damn, he's six years old. And he's just he has the craziest mouth on him. But like every time he does something like he explodes with like a reaction to something, you know, my wife just goes, she was, it's your genetic. She's like, that's you. I'm like, you know, I mean, I'm talking about like if he bumps a table, you know, he's like, what the fuck? Why is this fucking thing here? I'm like, and then she's like, you do that. I'm like, okay. But he's also like a very, he's really sweet and he's really sensitive, very tender kid, and she's like, that's who you are, like at your core.

47:10You know, you're this sweet guy, and you have this exterior, like this little maniac, but she's like, you guys are, yeah, so sometimes you're like, and the other thing that kids do is like, like you don't realize because you interact so much with adults, you know, as an adult and then they'll say things to you. Like I've flown off the handle and been like, what the fuck are you guys doing? My kids will be like, hey, we are kids. You don't talk to a kid like that and I'll be like, okay, sorry. Reverse discipline. Yeah. Like seriously? And they're like, why would you yell like that? I'm like, because you're painting the house.

47:49You're putting paint on the house. like stop painting the walls of the house. And they're like, okay, just say it. I'm like, okay, I shouldn't have to tell you, don't paint the house. You're not a painter. We should have to tell you not to fly off the handle. And yeah, we shouldn't tell you, not to, you don't have to yell like that. I'm like, okay, can you please stop painting the house so that I have to call a real painter now to fix what you just did. And they're like, okay, see how that worked? I'm like, yeah, great. But yeah, it totally recessed you. You're like, what, am I on my fucking mind here?

48:17Like, yeah, but it does work, yeah. Yeah, dude. Yeah, that's so funny. I got to, we got to talk about this headline, the Department of Governmental Efficiency in this Office of Management, finding $50 million was earmarked to spend on condoms in Gaza. You see this? No. In condoms? Department of Governmental Efficiency in the Office of Management and Budget found that the Biden administration was about to send $50 million to fund condoms for Gaza. This was yesterday. This is the biggest thing on Twitter at the moment. And when, like, do we know when they were about to do this? So they were just like, stop having babies.

48:57I don't know why. So there's two main theories for why it might have been. Okay. First one's money laundering. 50 million. Okay. A lot of money laundering. Second one is... A lot of Palestinians had been attaching IEDs to condoms that were filled with refrigerant gas, IEDs, and then releasing incendiary devices in Israeli territory. They can float these things over and then drop IEDs, drop incendiary devices. Those are the two main theories. is the one that it's money laundering and the second one that it's improvised explosive condoms. Wait, but money laundering benefiting who though? I don't know.

49:43Yeah. Well, it's not, I actually think that's not enough money to be like a strong money laundering. 50 million? 50 million is not that much money. When you talk about... Well, when you talk about the grand scale of like government, fundings, and you know, criminal, like 50 million is not like, you know, amount where you go, like, it's not like part of that. Well, maybe they thought they could get it I don't know how useful that is. But I mean, it seems like I didn't know about the idea. That part is, if they're like, look, we can't send you bombs. But we'll send you some condoms. And you guys know you do your little, some helium in them.

50:19You do your little wizardry that you've been doing. It's so fascinating that people can make anything useful for work. Because you always hear these like prison stories where they're like, get the fuck out of here. Yeah. Well, that's how they're just like, yeah, these guys, they made their shoelace in a toothbrush into a knife. And you're like, what the fuck are you talking about? And then, you know, they can't give them anything because everything becomes a weapon, right? And so that, I mean, I would have never guessed that. I thought what you were gonna go with was they were just saying like, look, you're gonna keep having sex with start making babies because you just, you know, like that would be the explanation.

50:55Results, restriction and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean, or just like, you don't wanna have babies in this environment. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's an altruistic way to look at it. It's a galodical way to go like, but no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, floating IEDs. Floating IEDs. Such pride. Also, because it's like, it's dark in that they, if the explanation is like, look on paper we can't send you weapons. You guys just have this. You know what to do. You know what to do with the condoms. And that's our way of saying we support you too. Yeah. We support both of you. Just you with condoms and you with missiles.

51:31Yeah. Yeah, come on, I didn't know. That's the fight, condoms versus missiles. I mean, it kind of is. It's one person throwing rocks, the other one's throwing an entire technological armory. It's fucked up, you wiped out, man. Yeah. There was a, it's like the two stories that I saw yesterday. The first one was about maybe these condoms are being used for IEDs. And the second one was the International Doomsday Clock Federation saying it's 89 seconds to midnight. It's like the closest that it's ever been. and this is how close humanity is to destruction, or self -destruction, or something like that.

52:08And like, if it's like a day clock, or something, or 12 hour clock, and you're 89 second, maybe it was at 90 or 91, or something before, like we're so close now, we should just move it back to like 6 p .m. and then increase the increments between it. Because like, 89, so like, what does that mean? What does that mean? I don't know. But it's basically that this decision reflects concerns of a nuclear risk climate change and disruptive technologies like AI, indicating a dire warning about humanity's proximity to existential threats. It's the closest point it's ever been to symbolic global catastrophe.

52:38It's like, what does 89 seconds mean? What does that ever mean? I have no idea. I'm completely lost. I microdose this morning, so I don't know. Fucking go. That's fucking go. I don't know what it means, but it seems to me like this some period that we're in now has got, definitely a lot more unpredictability, largely because of Trump. It's like, what's actually gonna happen. Do you think that, you know how people are always doing this thing of they're like, hey, the end of the world has to be near at this point? Like everything. Do you think there's ever been a time when people weren't saying that?

53:17I think it's always been a thing, right? The people always are like, and, I mean, yeah, Trump is like, I mean, he's such a polarizing figure. I've never seen somebody also, in my opinion, be so transparently themselves and have people react to that person in such extreme different way. Like, he so clearly is who he is. There is no, he doesn't put up this disguise. And then you have people who see it through the lens of like, this is like somebody who's here to save us. You're like, what? And then, we'll destroy us. Yeah. And so like, people, you see him as like this great person who has best intentions for citizens in country.

54:11And then other people who are like, this is a con man, you know. But I mean, it's just so insane to me that there's, both views. The same guy. Is the same guy. Doing the same things. Yeah. And it's pretty, I thought I was so clear who is. Like he just reads so clearly. It's like an, you know the Roshak test? Yeah. It's like an ideological Roshak test. It kind of is. Hey, look at the, is it Bunny Rabbit, Butterfly, Sunrise? What is it? Yeah. And some people see one and some people see the complete opposite. That's a, it's a fascinating thing though, right? When you think about it that way, about this person that he can exist and be who he is, say the things he says, has his resume, has like a clear, a clear list of actions and, you know, there's no mystery to who this person is and people still choose to view it through.

55:16We are, the same in shoes, just the way it is. A human beings view this through completely different lenses. It's kind of fascinating. Yeah. Have you ever met him? No. I sat like six feet from him. Okay. And I didn't meet him though. Didn't get to shake his hand. I saw this video of him shaking Gavin Newsom's hand. And there's a huge debate online about who, out -alphaed who. And Trump does the that thing. He does, but then Newsom knows it's coming. They must have prepped. They must have like practiced the thing. And there's gonna be a big deal. And as he pulls him in, Nusin puts his hand on his shoulder.

55:53Like that, so he's like sort of pushing and pulling like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's like, you know how you sort of have someone on the, but he's gone on the front. So as he gets pulled in, he's able to leverage. Oh, it's so interesting. But I don't know, like the, there's a bit of me, I mean, how long has it been in office? Like, fucking two weeks or some shit? Yeah, it's very, very quick. Every morning I wake up to NPR, because I like to drop my testosterone first thing in the morning. Sure. And it's just, Trump had line, Trump had line, Trump had line, Trump had line, Trump had, it's like just him.

56:26I'm kind of already a bit... Well, I had this... Second bit. I had this like, so on the lap on his first term, I got 1 ,000 % news fatigue from that. Like when he went out of office, I was like collapsing. And I realized that actually over the last four years, I consumed way less news than I used to. I used to be kind of all day reading that. And since he's been in office, I've seen headlines I know about multiple executive orders, but I don't even want to get into that emotional investment. It's almost like when you're a fan of a team, Like you don't really have the experience of being a sports fan unless you're emotionally invested That's really when you're a fan is when you're a day.

57:20Yeah, it has to ruin your day Otherwise, you're not really a fan and yes, you know Obviously like I live in this country. I want things to go well here I'm hoping for the best but I cannot emotionally invest in Trump news and and just what's happening with this is an administration like I did the first time because it just frankly takes up too much energy and too much time. And I do not, I have a number of things going on and I do not want to be, it's also a distraction. It's not really affecting you the way you think it is. You know, you start to like hear these things and then you just bark at your friend about it.

58:00You know, you're like, you fucking believe this bullshit. It's like, it's not really affecting most people in the way that they think it is and that they say it is. It just isn't. Like, in the way that most presidents in there don't really change your life that much. So now I know those people are going to hear this and be like, well, you know, it kind of affected my life because X, Y, and Z happened. Okay. So there's things that are exceptions to that. But for the most part, like what the president is doing, whoever the president is, it doesn't really affect your life that much. You can choose to invest in such a way where it starts to do, like literally, it's like the energy of your day went into reacting to what this person did that you either love or hate.

58:45And it's like, I can't do it. Well, think about you're worried about the outcomes of the policy or whatever. Maybe that'll impact you. Maybe it won't. But you can ruin your day worrying about worrying about it. No matter regardless of what happens. This thing doesn't happen. It doesn't matter. Your day's already been ruined by worrying about what it is that's gone on. Like a political anxiety or something. It reminds me of like the fear of conversation. Like, confrontation, like when you go, uh, Chris did something, I don't wanna talk to him about it, but like, fuck. And you start to, like, play in your head all the ways that it could go.

59:20You know what I mean? You have like this anxiety building inside of you of like, and you start to avoid and avoid and avoid and avoid, and then it's just like, just have the conversation. And you realize that the worry about the conversation is worse than the conversation itself, right? Like everything leading up to that, it's all in your head. But I don't want to have all this exercise in my mind where I'm just like so emotionally drained by what the president is doing. You know, it's like, I feel that as a distraction. Isn't it interesting that like a fear of fear is so much worse than whatever it is that we've got to fear?

59:57Yeah, like just reliably. Yes. It's like you learn that you can actually, If you're in your 20s, you can start, you know, I think, get into the practice of like, you'd learn that like having, because conversations are a thing that I think really make people scared, communicating with people about like what you want, what you need, like those types of things, those aren't inherently, you're not just like good at that. You have to get into it. And like, the younger you can get into the practice of doing it, this is what I think. this is how I feel. Oh my god, you're in a totally different group.

1:00:37You're in a totally different group than the people who, you know, repress and just shut down. Like, I mean, that's how I was built. Just like, just don't talk about it. Yeah. Don't talk. You don't have needs to subjugate them. Your desires aren't worthy. Yeah. There's no point in doing this. You just shut down. And then, yeah, that's going to show itself somewhere else. Yeah. Neil Strauss says, unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments and people just have this sense where you should have known. Like I wanted this thing and go, well, you didn't fucking tell me. Yeah, how do you? Now I'm resentful about the fact that you didn't do the thing that I didn't ask you to do.

1:01:13You, I resent you for not knowing my thoughts is what you're doing. If you love to. Yeah. If we were really friends and that's you would have known that is an unrealistic expectation to put on somebody. Yeah. And sometimes it's you that needs to go like, oh yeah, that is self. Yeah, yeah. That mean, so I mean, some people, like you really can put that work in, you can realize that earlier in life. This is, there's actually like a similar thing, I think, for like health and fitness, which we were talking about, which is like, they're not tied to communication, but you realize that there's some people who, they get it kind of beat into them.

1:01:57How important that is, young. And they stick with it. And look man, it's a lot. I wanna say it's easy, but it's easier to stay and maintain and your good health and fitness than it is to get way out of it and go back there. So like if you're a young person and you are, you know, one of my friends said one time, he goes, you know, I've never been out of shape. You know, like I was training as a teen and he's like, I've just never been out of shape. I'm like, oh yeah, like he's like, so I just, you make that priority. That's a way better thing. And I think there's a parallel for learning how to communicate about yourself.

1:02:40If you can work on those skills of like standing up for yourself, learning to talk about things that are bothering you or feeling whatever, and you can maintain and build on that in a younger age, Your way ahead your way ahead was not a sudden a something that you struggled with when you were younger a thousand percent I mean, I don't I didn't have a good model for it. Honestly, you know like I I think like my dad was somebody that just like He was a just kind of Shut down and take it and so I kind of I feel like I was just like oh like if something is bother you just kind of Just deal with it.

1:03:20Yeah, yeah, you just deal with it and I think I totally modeled that behavior, you know, of just, okay, like just, just push it down. So, yeah, it took years, I think, of it bothering you enough to realize, yeah, and then you, of course, explode, right? Because you're just repressing things. You have all of these resentments that build up over time. Yeah, and then it just kind of shows itself in other ways. but yeah, I mean, I've gotten to a place I think we're at the very least an awareness of like you have to communicate and you know, I've become much more assertive and I you know, say what I want and talk to people way differently than I did 10, 15, 20 years ago.

1:04:12It's strange that we, I have that too. Lots of people have lots of discomfort around advocating for themselves. Yeah, so the only way you can serve anybody else is if you're, you can whatever the serve people from the saucer that overflows around your cup Like how are you gonna sort anybody else if you if your stuff hasn't been sorted and Yeah, you know, there's this stat about it's The likelihood that people ensure their dog completes a course of antibiotics is 95 % The likelihood that they complete a course of antibiotics is 50 % It will literally better looking after an animal than we are looking after ourselves.

1:04:48That makes total sense. I also think that there's something where like, you know, like if you have a friend, like it's more likely that I would advocate for you harder than I would find myself. Way easier. Yeah, it's way easier to do. Like and really dig in to have fucking dare you to. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, you'll really stand up for them. Yeah, yeah. But then you'll be encouraging to them. It's like, I'm going to fight on your behalf, but once we're done, I'll come and don't worry, man. and like, you know, you tried your best. It's like, the level of support. Yeah, that's the adult love.

1:05:17Oh my God, the way that you talk to friends about any of their struggles and like how they should see themselves versus how we talk to ourselves. When I heard that first broken down, I was like, oh my God, I'm so abusive. I'm a criminal. Yeah, like it's like, yeah, you talk the way I talk to myself. I have much less self -loathing these days than I did. You always rears its head and you always, and it's not, I don't feel like you get like, this is done, right? But when something peaks in like that, I feel like it has a much shorter shelf life. Because you realize it's, it is not very loving. There's no acceptance there.

1:06:07And it's ultimately it's not productive. What's productive is like taking action on whatever the thing is. So like I just feel like whenever, like even like if it's like fitness health and you're like you're just like a piece of shit sitting around doing nothing. Look at this fucking gut or whatever it is that it doesn't really, I could sit in that if I wanted to and I have before for a long time. But it's just like, no, it's like today, now, let's go. Right? Like, whether it's what you're eating or let's go train, you just feel like, you know, even with like creative things, you get in these like self -loathing kind of ruts also about like what your productivity is, whether you're writing a script or you're on stage.

1:06:51But sitting in that, you just realize it just, you just fall deeper into it and you just, it doesn't, you don't do anything. The older you get, the more you just realize the only solution for this feeling is just action. So like what I just do in those moments when I feel that is I open my laptop or I get a pen or I just go to a get on stage and I'm forcing myself, even if this fucking bombs, like I don't wanna sit in that feeling of like, I suck, cause I, and also like I wouldn't do it to you, right? Like if you were like, I suck, I wouldn't be like, you know you do suck man. like you should just sit here and do nothing.

1:07:32I would be like, get up, let's go. Let's go do something, let's go train, whatever. Let's work on a project. Like so you just learn, I think, with age and experience that action is like, it really is the big solve. That's the one thing I would tell, I tell you I don't like to advise like young artists and I really don't, but the one thing I would feel comfortable telling them is like doing something is the way to getting where you want to. I don't care if you're a painter or a writer or an actor or a comedian. Like, you're not going to achieve any of that by sitting here and feeling bad about yourself.

1:08:13Go ahead if you want to. But the way out of this is by doing the thing. You have to act. Once upon a time, Tom Segura used to look like Bert Kreyscher, eight Tom Segura. But those days are gone because Tom took control of his health and with function you can take control of yours without any of the guesswork They run lab tests twice a year that monitor over a hundred biomarkers their team of expert physicians Then takes the data put in a simple dashboard and gives you insights and actionable recommendations to improve your health and lifespan They track everything from your heart health to your hormone levels Thyroid function and even nutrient deficiencies.

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1:09:23You're okay. So, what I think is independent of the action. So if I can just go and do the action, I don't need to make myself a necessarily suffer beforehand. Yeah. It's just an addiction to me always seeing me like the villain or like the loser, like the person that doesn't get anything done, and has there ever been a time when you've gone and done something without calling yourself a piece of shit for doing it. Yeah, loads of times. Sure. All the time. You go and do stuff without first like fucking whipping yourself into submission. Yeah. Okay. So, just try and continue to shortcut that. Just try and use yourself a piece of shit thing.

1:09:59Just go straight to, I'm just going to do the thing. Yeah. Just going to try and do the thing. And, uh, yeah, there's a, uh, an idea around, there are so many people working so hard in achieving so little. and I think the same about the internal landscape of people's minds. There are so many people thinking so mainly about themselves and having so few outcomes from it. So, okay, so the reason you wanna go and do something is presumably to make your life better. And in the process of trying to motivate yourself to go and do something to make your life better, you make your life fucking miserable.

1:10:29It's like you're sacrificing the thing that you want for the thing that's supposed to get, the thing that you want. And then you realize, well, the more that I call myself a piece of shit, actually kind of doesn't really motivate me. Yeah, all that much. It's kind of like a toxic fuel that doesn't last that long. Maybe it gets me a really, really bad situation and really, really like down in my health or whatever it is. I'm young. You go, after a while, it's just habit and routine. It's people get addicted to the suffering, right? And what you need to, what you try to get to is just, it's actually looking at that voice as almost like a sign you're passing on a highway.

1:11:04You're just kind of looking and you're going, or like, oh yeah, there's that, like, I think that's a place you want. And then hopefully one day, it's not even there at all. It's in the past. But yeah, the longer you're in the cycle of being productive, the less that voice is there and the less it lasts. And the more you see it for what it is, which is like, it's a nuisance and it's an obstacle. And it's an enemy as well. It's not your friend. It's not your friend. Mine's not your friend when it's doing that. Yeah, at all. Yeah. But it is something that again, I think so many people think that that's just them.

1:11:41You know what I mean? Like they just go like, man, I'm the only one with these like, dude. It's, yeah, your therapist has those thoughts, like for real. It's funny as well. A lot of people, I think that maybe have those kinds of thoughts, have high goals for themselves and they've probably maybe started to make some movement toward them. So you go, wow, so you believe that you have agency in the real world. You think that your efforts can cause an outcome to happen. And you know, you're the fact that you moved out of the house a little bit younger than most of your friends or the fact that you changed that career that you didn't really like or you know, when you acquired that skill that you really, really wanted, why do you think that happens?

1:12:20Like, well, because I worked at it, I worked really hard. You're okay. So you're telling me that you and your agency can influence the world outside of you. Yes. Okay. You know, the texture of your mind, you know, the way that you think. Do you think that you have agency over everything? And then that's for some reason stops at the boundary of your skull. So like the only thing that you actually do directly have agency over, which is what's happening inside of your mind, is the one place that you don't feel like you're a victim. Most helpless in that. And it's such a paradox, right? So I think people have even been able to save relationships.

1:12:56My partner really wasn't sure that this was going to work. And I proved to them that this was the right thing. and now a marriage, I'm so happy, more or the rest of it. Oh, so it's not even like you think that you have more agency over other people than you do over the way that you think. It just shows you like all this just makes me think about how complicated the human mind and experiences. It just it like, you know, when you go to like, talk about like health and weight loss, right? There's so many people who you go like, do you know what to do? Like do you know what to do to do it? And so many people are like, yeah, just eat this and do this.

1:13:34And you're like, so what is the hold up? Right? Well, the hold up is that sure that formula is simple, but existing in the world and dealing with life and emotions and thoughts is not that simple. And so the execution of this plan sometimes, it just doesn't go as simply as it kind of should, right? Like being a human being is complicated. It's just it's, we're sophisticated minds and entities on this, it speaks to like what you were just saying. It's like, how can you have so much control over this situation, but not here? It's like, you know what I mean? How can you not know to eat some fucking chicken and go on a walk?

1:14:27It's like, well, you do, but it's just being here is more complicated than that. It just is. I remember you told this story about a friend of yours who got diagnosed with real light -stage cancer. And he was like, I'm going to beat this. You're like, dude. Yeah. You tell that? This was like, it was so insane. I, it was one of, it was like my closest high school friend and he came to see me do a show in Palm Beach and I remember we walked back from, we went to a bar that was near the hotel and we walked back to the hotel and he was like, he's overweight, he was like really and then I was like, I'm fat, but you're a f**k.

1:15:15That was hard for you. We just walked. Like on a, you know, no hill, just like straight down the street. It's like, all right, well, it is Florida, you know? It's humid or whatever. And then next day, I think they spent the night and they were driving back. And so then, and then the day after that, I go, I was living in LA, I get to be there. back to LA and another friend was like, oh, did you hear what happened? I was like, here what happened? I didn't, what do you mean? Oh yeah, on their way back to their house, my friend's wife was like, I don't like the way you look or you're breathing. So we're just gonna stop by the emergency room.

1:15:56And I kind of can, you know, convince them to. They go to the emergency room, he gets X -rayed. He's got tumors, everybody's got stage four. lung cancer. And it's like, and so this is I find out on this call and then, you know, he goes immediately into treatment, right? And they're like, this is, you know, this is basically as bad as it can get. So his brother finds the specialist who treats this particular type of cancer in Indianapolis. He's doing like trips from like Florida, Indianapolis. I go visit him in the hospital and you know, this is like, I don't know, maybe a month has gone by or something.

1:16:42So he's deep into his chemo, he's bald, he's lost 80 pounds or something. And like, I'm like, everybody's face is kind of like, you know, you can just read it. Doctors, spouse, friends, everyone's like, it's good that you're here, you know. And you're like, yeah, and then him, he's just like, yeah, man, just doing this and like, You know, I'll beat this thing and then maybe by the way in the summer we can go to this and I'm like, what the fuck? And I'm like, oh, he's just like crazy, you know? And I'm like, does he understand the gravity of this? And they're like, I mean, I think so, but I always told him I go, I think you're dumb enough to think you can do this.

1:17:33And I actually remember that like when my uncle, my uncle was like a world -renowned urologist. And when he got mesothelioma, I remember my dad being like, you know, it's, he's too smart. He knows how to read these charts. Like he's like, he knows he's going to die. He knows. He just, he, there's just no, and I, I say it jokingly, but I feel like my friend was also like uninformed and determined obviously to just be like, yeah, I mean, I know the sucks and this, this treatment sucks, but I'll be fine. And like believe it, believe it. And they consider him like in this field and especially with like in this specialty as like a true mirror.

1:18:24And he did beat it. Yeah. He's been in remission for what is it now? Like Seven or more years, I forgot how many years now. And he beat it and he's, and like right away, by the way, he's like, he drinks, he fuckin' dips, he eats like shit and you're like, like, like, doesn't that scare you into a different lifestyle? He's like, huh? Oh my, me, you're fuckin', fuckin', he's got a watermelon head. So maybe there's just like air in there, I don't know, but yeah, no, he doesn't take like, particularly good care of himself, which is a look, it's further into like the conversation we're talking about, like how mine's work is like, I remember when my dad, also I was at the same, I just realized this right now, I was at the same comedy club.

1:19:16This is more than 10 years ago. This is like closer to 15 years ago in Florida. And he came to a show and also didn't look good and was also breathing heavy. Stop going to that comedy club. I know, right? Killing people. And my mom also made him go to the emergency room on the way home and he had 98 % blockage in his, one of his arteries. So they did an emergency stint, right? Open up the artery, which is like fairly common, but obviously like, if, is one of those things like if he didn't do that, he probably would have had a heart attack in the next whatever, couple of weeks or something. And like, I don't know, when he got out of the hospital, You know, you feel this relief at the time.

1:19:58And like the next time I called him, because we would talk like almost every day, I was like, where are you? I'm at McDonald's. And I'm like, do you just get an emergency stint put in like for your clogged arteries? Yeah, I know. And it's just having a McMuffin, like what the fuck man? And I'm like, don't you wanna like, you know, go, oh thank you for this new lease on life and eat differently? He's like, what? Like, okay. Like people just are who they are, you know, in some cases. Like I would think, I don't know, maybe it's just like, and like when I broke my fucking arm and tore my patellar tendon and I viewed, like some of that was just like a catalyst of like, oh, I need to take better care of myself.

1:20:43So I guess it's just how you're wired, I guess, in a way, right, where you're like, I don't wanna be. To learn from experience. So I guess I'm friends with stupid people. I don't know. I'm not like, yeah, like, I don't know. I was like, you don't wanna start eating healthier because your arteries are clogged and he was like, smic muffin, like, okay. My friend beats cancer and you're like, how much tobacco are you consuming every day? He's like, I don't know. Like, you know there's a correlation, right? To the thing that you narrowly beat and what you're doing every day. Yeah, that's, yeah. Before we continue, I've tried pretty much every green string that I could find trying to work out which one was best.

1:21:24And I came across AG1 and they've stuck it, stuck it, stuck with it for years because it's literally the best, it's the most comprehensive, it's the most rigorously tested and best formulation. And if I found anything better, I would switch, but I haven't, she's why I still use it, and I got my parents to use it, I got my friends to use it, and I put it inside of my body every single day. This is NSF certified for sport, meaning that every batch is not only held to strict standards for heavy metals, but also is tested for 280 banned substances. One scoop of A .G .1 contains 75 vitamins, minerals and whole food sourced ingredients, including a multi -vitamin, multi -mineral, pre -and probiotic, green superfood blend, and more that all work together to fill the nutritional gaps in your diet, increases energy and focus, aids with digestion and supports a healthy immune system all without the need to take multiple products, or pills.

1:22:12And if you're still unsure, they've got a 90 -day money -back guarantee, so you can buy it and try it every single day for three months. And if you do not like it, they'll just give you your money back. Right now, you're going to use free supply, vitamin D3, K2 and five free AG1 travel packs plus that 90 day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinkag1 .com slash monom wisdom that's drinkag1 .com slash monom wisdom. Have you ever seen the midwit meme? Do you know what that is? Oh, dude. So imagine a bell curve, it's an IQ bell curve. And on the left hand side, this sort of Neanderthral looking meme guy with the heavy brow.

1:22:49And then in the middle at the top is the sort of raging lib guy. And then on the far side is the sage that's got his head up looking like a Jedi. And the joke is that the guy in the left and the guy in the right always arrive at the same conclusion. And the guy in the middle tries to ever complicate it. So we've spent, me and George, my friend have spent, I'm not kidding like months talking about this. He sent me another meme about it this morning. It's like the most, I think it's the most philosophically important mean because let's say it's getting in shape. Yeah. Lift -weight -Z protein. Lift -weight -Z protein.

1:23:22I must ensure that my pre -digested way is consumed within 30 minute window. I have to make sure that my blue block is put on before fight. Like it's just the guy in the middle. Ruins everything. It's over -complicating things. Yeah. And what you've got, what you've found, is a bunch of people that are on the left. And here's the thing that people don't get about the midwit mean. This is, we refine this over a million dinners. Every guy in the middle is a guy in the left trying to be the guy in the right. That's for sure. You can't be the guy in the right. It's impossible to be the guy in the right.

1:23:50The only thing you can be is the guy in the left. And some people just don't know. They're the guy in the left. Some people are aware of it. Precisely correct. Precisely correct. Yes. So there's some people who are naturally gifted with that. Now they've got some challenges too that maybe they're gonna get hit by things that they didn't quite see. Yeah, you know, rolling the dice and having these sorts of stories where like the miraculous recovery because of this guys is like a is like inability to realize how ridiculous his goals are because he's not trying to be the guy in the right and ending up being the guy in the middle He's like, I'm gonna beat this thing.

1:24:19Yeah, but yeah, you can't be the guy in the right You can only be the guy in the left. So what you're trying to cultivate it's like cultivated stupidity is the best you can Hope for if you don't if you're not gifted with it if you're not gifted with like like, ah, you got the natural stupidity, congratulations. Like if you didn't have that, it's like, you just need to be, okay, I'm gonna default to being the simple thing. You're not trying to be the over complex thing, which ends up being the simple thing anyway, but what you end up doing is just being stuck in the middle. You don't wanna be the loud dumb guy.

1:24:45Just be dumb and quiet, basically. Like, nothing worse than like the ignorant, most ignorant people are always like yelling about it. And you're just like, man, you just don't, you don't wanna have to be like that. Do you ever think, because another bell -crafting somebody, I forgot who brought this to my attention, was the idea that, you know, there's a, the average IQ is like 100. And then you think of like, people with developmental issues who are, you know, let's say technically under 70, right? It's like, you have, and you kind of go like, oh yeah, average is it, but then you go like, do you realize how many people are 90, 80, 75?

1:25:26like it's not a couple, it's millions and millions of, for that to be the average, that like you're surrounded by a lot of noise from people that are barely putting sentences together, you know, and you can, if you stop and have enough conversations, you'll figure it out. Like there's a lot of nonsense that you should ignore and they have a voice too. And the best thing you can do is tune them out. Like it was seriously. Obviously, there's like, yeah, I mean, you might not be on the far other side of that equation where you're not 140 or something. But if you're even just lucky enough to be blessed with the average or slightly around there, there's a lot of people you should not be listening to.

1:26:14There's a really interesting stat that guys in high school who have got IQs of 70 are more likely to not be virgins than guys in high school who have got IQs of 130. Well, like stupid people only know how to fuck. That is kind of a thing, right? I mean, I've been to those countries and they're underdeveloped and that's what their whole currency is. They're just like, I fuck. So it's not crazy to me to... They have their own showering system. There's a lot of sand. But dumb people... If you ask a lot of like who is the best fucker your life? They're gonna be like, it was a dumb guy. That guy was a machine.

1:26:55Didn't know if it complicated. He did, yeah, he just got in there and knew what to do. And like that's his, if you're dumb, I mean, that might be like the thing you're best at, you know? Cause it feels good. It's like it's his dumb equation. You're like, touch this, it feels good. They, that makes sense to them. I feel like they're not, they're not introspective. They're not gonna have any. Well, they don't get in their own head about it, right? They're not the urologist reading his sheets. No. Just in the moment. They're just in the moment and they just go... The guy on the left is the best fuck in the world, who knew.

1:27:27Yeah, he definitely is. Yeah. It's definitely not the guy on the far right. No. No. Well, I don't know. The idea of trying to be a little bit more simplistic. Another perfect example of this, in atomic habits by James Cleyer, he talks to us. I think it's like the head of the Chinese weightlifting team. And there, it's super advanced. They're getting these kids from like five years old, right? It's a religion weightlifting in China. And he asked, what is the difference between the guys who are world champions and the rest of the elite? And he said, the guys that are world champions are prepared to come in and do the boring things without complaining and realizing that it's not supposed to be there.

1:28:09It's like, oh, okay. So if you have this cultivated stupidity where you can say, look, this is going to suck. And I shouldn't rail against the fact that it sucks. Matt Fraser, who won the CrossFit Games five, six times in a row, he did an engineering degree and there's a story in chasing excellence by Ben Burderon where he says, I, he would wrote, memorize his entire engineering textbook page for page. And if he got one word wrong, he'd go back to the start and do it again. So this guy, basically, very, very smart, very, very driven. But then he had to have this cultivated stupidity thing. If you're gonna go and do monostructural work on a rowing machine or a ski hug or an air runner or whatever, you need to go and go, this is gonna be 90 minutes at 140 BPM.

1:29:00It's the zone two e -bora. It's the most boring thing. It's not even gonna give me the satisfaction of feeling like I've worked. Yeah, yeah. Like I've got to just sit. But I know that it's going to help my steady state kind of, you know, conditioning. You approve. They'll slow you go fast. And so like, it's kind of back to the thing though that like those elite athletes are either so smart that they know to be the guy in the left, or they are the guy in the left, who just goes show up and do it. And it feels good. The fun. It's undefeated. But I mean, that's why I have a... I find it interesting when sports stars get criticized for boring or basic post -match interviews.

1:29:41I do too. I feel like it is. What did you expect? Yeah, and also we didn't he didn't sign up to be a great interview You know he or she like they That's not part of that you're making that you're putting that on them that they have to be fantastic and charismatic because you're using Your own barometer for what you consider to be successful as a non elite athlete Yeah, this person is just fucking hitting four hands and back hands That's what they're supposed to be good at. Lift white, sit bowl. That's it. Then they did it well. So whatever it comes after that is like, you know, you're projecting onto the, oh, I can't believe that they said this or they had an attitude why?

1:30:23Or that they didn't give like an eloquent answer? Like this supposed to be a philosopher. It's like, it's a fucking Neanderthal half the time. For every Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, there's like 200 guys on the left. like someone that I've thought really deeply about this, I understand exactly what it means to me, etc, etc. So you want to sport that actually feels like that's not the case where everybody is the guy on the right, Formula 1. I don't see many people, many of the drivers in Formula 1, Dean, is anybody in Formula 1, Dean here? Anyone in Formula 1, the guy on the left? Is there any like Neanderthral super simple like drive car fast to go sideways people?

1:31:08Danny Riccardo, maybe, but he's more like the party guy in the left. He's like the guy in the left putting a party hat. But you know what I mean? Danny is though, he's a pretty nuanced thinker. Like he has this persona of like, because he is like, but then you sit with him and you talk and you realize, yeah, these guys are all pretty. Oh fuck, you went to that, that's why you met Zach at that party, right? when you had some F1 party, was that not something to do with Danny Riccardo? Was it last year or the other year? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd met Danny in Australia at his place. I went to, and then when he had his party, that's right.

1:31:44Zach was at that thing here. Yeah. And I've won a keystone of being a Pedro Pascal from Wish. That's right. I mean, it's the crown. I mean, it looks a lot like fucking Pedro Pascal does. He still does. It's not a bad thing, man. He's got a good thing going on. I thought the new hair was for a new part. I was like, what are you in? Yep. Okay. No, but you're right. Those guys are pretty bright. They're pretty bright guys. Maybe there's some correlation between high performance driving and you can't be a boxer rocks. I just, the certain things that are so technical. I would imagine, for instance, golf.

1:32:21I don't know golf, but I would imagine that it's probably pretty difficult to be a golfer and also be the guy on the left because a high level one. Yeah, yeah, because and most of the time, well, I guess there's other factors. Most of the time when you see these most PGA people had a certain upbringing. They're usually well educated. You know, that sport is usually associated with a certain socio -economic level. I mean, it obviously is people who have started elsewhere, but for the most part, you find it in well -to -do environments and people who have a certain level of education. but you're right, there's not a lot of, I don't know, like, back, none, no, no.

1:33:04I thought this through really carefully. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's the difference. If you were to go, I'm gonna, again, I'm going to NASCAR, Acoda in a couple of weeks time. So please don't take this the wrong way. I don't imagine that the NASCAR drivers have quite the same mentality that the Formula One drivers do. I imagine that you could get some more guys on the left in NASCAR despite the fact that it's probably a very similar sort of sport. Yes, that's 100 % true for sure. Yeah, I mean, there's, yeah, the Formula One guys for the most part are more sophisticated dial. But also, yeah, I mean, there's definitely some really bright people who've done the NASCAR and then there's some people who just go like, foot down, tunneling.

1:33:47Put down, just hold on, baby. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely true. And then I think you find more guys on the left if you're talking about violent sports to, right? So for, I mean, no one's going to Nate Diaz for, like, his sort of deep philosophical insights about stuff, but holy fuck. Yeah. He is going to annihilate you. And there's that, you know, I've heard these stories about his and his brothers and like they do triathlons and sort of this endurance racing thing, their ability to put their head down. I don't, like, that's one that I, you know, you're always, you're drawn to do things that you naturally have some skill that right or it feels good to do and then we naturally you reject things where you're like oh this doesn't I'm not good at this and I don't like this like with sport right like you just always are like doing the things you have some skill that and you're like I don't like this other thing these fucking ultra marathon people like part of it I realized is that like it's just not in me and I don't even understand this mental aspect and I've talked to a I was like, I don't understand how you're doing this.

1:34:55150 mile, horrible idea. Like how? But like, that just speaks to like, it's again, I feel like you wanna be the guy on the left for that. You don't wanna have as much awareness. The certain sports where it's a real competitive advantage. There's this kid called Ned Brockman out of Australia. So when I did my tour over there, I had him on the show. So he ran a thousand kilometers or a thousand miles around a track and it took him just over a week. And he, like his shins were just torn apart and he's got shaved on top, like the classic Aussie, like real Aussie mullet. Not one of these trendy, wanky, Austin things, you know, where there's like a bit of hair up top to make it balanced.

1:35:40So like, like Theavans, Theavans, basically. And he did that. He ran across Australia. you tried to break the record for running across Australia. And you speak to him in particular. And he like, I was trying to find the Goggins ancestral trauma void inside of him. Sure. Oh, you're just doing this because you like the thrill of it. Like you're just doing this because run far feel good. And yeah, it's... I wonder how people can kind of get out of their own head. So a lot of the different things that we've touched on to do with the self -loathing, the criticism, that internal voice, all of those things are putting limits on your self -belief and your capacity and making you think, well, maybe you can't do that, maybe you shouldn't do that, or maybe in the pursuit of even doing that, you should hate yourself a little bit more.

1:36:32And I'm like, okay, how can we, I want to work out how to cultivate, how people that are intrinsic overthinkers can create a little bit more cultivated stupidity? I think that would be like, I don't know, hit everyone on the head. Fucking microdose mushrooms, smoke weed on the mo, I don't know. No, we all, I mean, I think we all have this thing where we can overthink. You can make, like I remember talking to somebody about it, first is production. When you go, I'm gonna shoot something. You can always find reasons to not do the thing. Well, this is just gonna be, I mean, it's gonna be a night shoot or it's gonna cost this, or I don't know if we're gonna get the right sound person and I don't know the makeup has not got it.

1:37:15Like you can just find reasons to not do things. I guess it goes back for me to just, whether you're under thinking over thinking, just take action in any, you know what I mean? So like overthinking that production thing is something that happens to so many people. Like I'm using the example of production, but this just happens for like whatever thing they wanna do. Career change. Yeah, career change or like even something that's not gonna go pleasurable. Yeah. Talk to the girl, go on a trip. We're gonna go skiing and they're like, I don't know if I have the goggles and I have to go get them, like, dude.

1:37:50Like, we talk ourselves out of a lot of things, whether it's like production, pleasure. It's just, honestly, all these things are just like, it's life. It's like, it's being in the game. Like, people, you wanna be in the game, right? Whether it's like, in work or in your own love life, for whatever. You don't want to be on the slide. You don't want to be not to like pile on, but you don't want to be one of the lonely people. And those people, there's a lot of reasons where someone can end up in this situation. But one of them is definitely, they're talking themselves out of things. Talking to those out of engaging.

1:38:32Yeah, that's so interesting. Well, there's a vicious spiral, you know, you sort of touched on it earlier on that when you've got good habits, they feed you good habits. And then you believe in yourself more. but the same thing happens in reverse. Yes. And it's such an, I understand why people on the internet rail against anybody that appears to have had runaway success. Because if you're not that, if you're using the same dynamic, but in reverse, which is you've got runaway failure, that fucking sucks. And I've been there. I've been in the, I just continue, I reliably face plant And every single thing that I try to do from the smallest to the biggest, and I need to use the, I don't know how to do it, but I need to like rip this 10 turn gorilla off the floor, attach to a barber, I need to like find a way to reverse this momentum.

1:39:19And then when you're on the other side of it, you almost have this sense of like survivor guilt, like retrospectively like, oh holy fuck, this is me feeling the wind that that was the loss of. Yeah. And I had this conversation, this guy, William von Hippel, fascinating anthropologist, evolutionist, psychologist, yesterday, who's telling me about how two fundamental needs that humans have, one is autonomy and the other one is connection. And the thing is, if you've got a hierarchy, everybody needs connection, and his belief is fundamentally, that's what everybody's after. They want to be warm, they want to be friendly, they want to be valued.

1:39:56Weird thing is, in order to be valued, autonomy allows you to build up some of that, some of the capacities. So you need to be selfish, you need to go, if you're good at comedy, there is a degree of connection you've had to sacrifice to do that because you don't do comedy in union with your wife or in union with your friends or whatever. You have to spend a lot of time, if you're Steph Curry and you shoot 3 ,503 pointers in training, I know that you've had to sacrifice some connection in order to be able to build up that autonomy, right? And the autonomy then creates this capability. People value the capability thing.

1:40:29But what they really, really want is the connection. So there's this fascinating bit of research that shows that people who are more competent as seen as colder, regardless of how friendly they are. And people who are more incompetent, as seen as more warm and friendly, regardless of how warm and friendly they are. And there's this sense that, that, huh, I sort of infer from someone's capabilities and whether or not they're smart or successful or whatever, hey, you're not very pro -social because if you're rich or you've achieved status or you've done a thing, you've lost all of this weight. Adele, like you've lost all of this weight.

1:41:06You was, there's this bit in the back of our mind that kind of knows, like you were selfish for a while. Like you had to work on you. You had to be selfish for a while, whereas you don't have the same in the opposite direction. I thought that was so interesting. This sort of fact. and sharing between competence and warmth and the fact that we see them as opposed to each other. Competent people are seen as cold and incompetent people are seen as warm. That is, and as you said it, I was just nodding along because it feels like one of those things where you realize it's kind of automatic. Like it's like, you know, the test where they say, then they use every psychology 101 department does this where they have the person carry the books and they drop them in front of them and they have an attractive person to it.

1:41:50Everyone's like, hey, here you go. Like it's just, it's automatic. It's in your brain. And then people are, people are colder, or I would say more inviting and warm and wanting to be helpful to it, natural attractive people. That's another thing that's just like automatic. Like if you're in a, somebody's like lost and you just go, yeah, but like the competency is really interesting. Cause I've, I've never actually heard, It's one of those things where it's like in standup when somebody articulates a Thing that's always been there and you go like no one's ever fucking said it, but It's interesting that we have we do have Yeah, like you feel naturally warmer to somebody like somebody can't figure something out You I guess that's kind of like a in a way that's a good thing where you go.

1:42:38I'm let me Embrace this like help you want you want to help the person who is seemingly the incompetent, at least to a degree, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, sometimes, but then there's a point of frustration with that. God damn it. But the more interesting thing is the other side of it, the fact that you would have a perception that a highly competent person is just cold. Yeah. Well, the other, you know, you've, Trump's kind of maybe an interesting example around that, I mean, you could argue about his level of competence, but he's not stupid. And I wonder whether a little bit of it is if somebody is really competent, there's this sense in the back of your mind where you go, are they really being themselves?

1:43:21Is this them or is this some sort of sub -to -fuge act thing that they're trying to put me on right now? Yeah. Secret Squirrel Society me and Fugaisi me. Whereas there's, I mean, I look at A bunch of different people, whether it's in sport, whether it's in entertainment, the sort of simple, lovable, oath type character. There is this sense of warmth to them because you go, hey, he might make some errors, but he owns those errors. And they're from the heart. The errors that are kind of like a natural outgrowth, they're not manipulative, they're not being done for some particular reason. He's not being beast of fear though, right?

1:44:01Because what the thing is is you're less scared of that oath. You're more scared of the very intelligent person. It's always been this way. Somebody who is highly intelligent, part of your brain just goes, what's this person capable of doing to me? That's really at the root of what you're feeling. You're feeling that this highly intelligent person is either going to be, is going to want to pull something over on you. They're going to get you to do something you didn't want to do. Is this information against me? Yeah, what should I tell them? That's exactly what your brain's doing, is it's like it's protecting itself.

1:44:37The oaf, the levelable oaf, you don't have to worry about that. Your guard goes down completely, you go, this is like a puppy, you know? Like there's nothing going on behind this person's eyes that I can't pick up on. This person just wants to, whatever they say is what they want. And so that's the thing is that we're just kind of protecting ourselves with the highly competent person. Well, I guess one of the interesting areas of this is lots of people that listen to podcasts of the endemic overthinkers. They're the people that are trying to learn more about the world and they're spending time doing that.

1:45:15Even now, as it seems like the podcast election and every single, it's like, I think only about 50 % of Americans listen to a podcast once a month and then you've got the power users that will listen to the multiple hours per day. But you think, okay, so you're probably... You listen to podcasts? Two. I do, yeah, yeah. It's changed. My listening habits have changed a lot since doing the show. And I think in order to kind of be fresh, there's an amount of exposure that you need to limit yourself to. Or else you end up being too heavily influenced. I imagine that watching other comics is probably like this as well.

1:45:49Yeah, you really just want to like, I mean, the thing is I get so much anxiety watching, this sounds like the bad, but like just watching somebody not. I only want to watch really good comics in person. So like if somebody's really good, I want to watch that. If they're not, I don't want to watch. Why? It's just I think you're feeling you know all those things, the feelings of trying to figure it out and the insecurities and like, and also there's tired bits and like, there's, you know, like you're watching a seven -year guy, you're like, this is like, the best version of this is not great anyway.

1:46:35So you don't wanna, it's a seven -year guy. Like a guy who's been doing it just like, he's still in like this development phase. And so you just go, like it just makes me, I just don't wanna be around it. I know. I wanna watch like high -level people, I want to watch because it's really good. It is inspiring. It makes you go like, fuck, like, ah shit, I need to write more. Those are the people I want to watch. Which, I mean, that's my own thing, right? But I also know a lot of people like that. I can't stand in the back of the room and just watch a person after the person go up who's like fledgling and trying to figure it out.

1:47:15That's Killtony. That is what Killtony is for a job. Kill Tony is well, yeah. But you've got to release Valve. The difference with that is you've got to pressure release Valve. True. So I wonder, the only totally broadsizing that's pulling it out of my eyes. This has to be the same, I would guess, if you were a musician, watching a musician, not perform particularly well on stage, I continually miss notes and do other bits of it. In fact, I know that this is the case. I know that this is the case first hand from being in Jamaica recently. I wonder whether there's a bit of it where you're starting to tune your own nervous system to like the, this sensation that you're working really, really, really hard to avoid.

1:47:55You're watching this person do the thing that you do and going, I'm feeling PTSD. Yeah, it is. There's definitely PTSD. I'm part of this is bringing it back into me. I've worked really hard to get rid of that. I don't want that in my world. Exactly. That's definitely happening. It's definitely happening. You, you, it's triggering hundreds and thousands of like bad memories. Yeah. And you just, they're like, and you like, you can just see, like you, you see all sudden, you see that these micro movements of like, oh, I see that discomfort. I see where this is going. I know what this taught. Like, this is just, I, this is bad.

1:48:34I want to leave. So I want to leave, literally leave the room. And then if you tell me like, somebody's on stage, who you're going, this person's really good. Yeah, I want to watch that. That feels good. It actually relaxes me. I feel relaxed. I feel relaxed. I feel relaxed. Yes. Yeah, it relaxes me. I wonder what the sort of common lesson is that, what the sort of rule is that to try and spend time watching people, but you're right on Kyltoni though, in that, you know, those people are doing like a minute, and that anxiety in me can build high in that minute. I mean, I've sat up there where I'm like, and then you just fucking wait for that cat to me out.

1:49:11You're like, oh, thank God. Like just, yeah, it's, there's a very uncomfortable feeling. People, we don't all react to it the same way. I think though, but for a comedian who's done it, yeah, you start to feel what they're feeling. Yeah, it's such an emotional area. Yeah, I really do think that the, that cultivated stupidity thing, and trying to simplify down, trying to not, It's not not hold yourself to two high standards, but just realize that the outcome that you're trying to achieve only really depends on the actions that you're going to take. And all of this fuckery that you've got going in, all of the stories that you tell yourself, all of the ruminate, all of the fear of fear, of the conversation, all of the concern about whether it should be assertive, but that's what they're going to say.

1:49:58I had this really lovely question on a Q &A last week that said, I know that I deserve of more, but I'm really terrified to ask where I didn't specify what the situation was, maybe something at work, maybe something in a relationship, maybe something with family or whatever. Like, I know that I deserve more, but I'm really scared of asking for it. It's like what an odd, but totally relatable thing. Totally, relatable thing. Situation to be in. It's like, I know that this is something that I'm allowed, that I can have, that I should have, and they probably know too. And I'm still in my head about all of this.

1:50:28The same thing goes for your pursuits, your professional life, your personal life, all of that stuff. Yeah, it's an extremely universal question, right? And I mean, my immediate thought is like, I can't help but think about like actually in entertainment, like in what I do is that you come into it feeling like that. You're like, I want these things. And then you have representation, but you view representation as like mom and dad, which is not how you're supposed to do it. How so because you're young and you go like can I is it okay? Would you approve of me? Do you think I can and then it cultivates these this relationship a lot of young actors and comedians have this like kind of twisted relationship with their first reps, right?

1:51:22Which is why a lot of times you people hit the next phase in their life and they change if they can because they need a relationship that's more equal as opposed to like this weird power. Powerful. Yeah, that's not supposed to really be there because it's like what the woman, you go like but I want, but I don't feel like I should say to that person. It's like there's certain people, you just feel like you can't say the thing too, which is fine. I think that's a normal thing. You need to then switch the person that you're talking to that you can speak like that too. And that's what happens a lot in our field, I would say, like that people want to ask for things and they're scared to.

1:52:08I was like, well then you need to change what you're asking. You know, obviously you need to get to the point where you feel like you can ask for these things, but sometimes you just don't feel like you can say certain things of certain people. What have you learned about human psychology through this recent obsession with true crime? Mine. Recent. I mean, 40 years. That's digital. A long time. I mean, I just feel like crime and, you know, behaviors of criminals is a, I don't understand how Now somebody is not fascinated by how other human beings can act. I think there's something about crime in and of itself that is so accessible that that's part of the other words, you can go into the bank and rob it.

1:53:04You've gone in there before. But you're you I'm fascinated by the fact that somebody does that right like I was just there I'm in line. I see what they're seeing But like the fact that they do that is everyone's felt rage or ones like I could kill this fucking whatever Drive a frozen yeah salesperson driver or whatever and but you just don't and then to you know know, the rage thing, I guess everybody understands how you could trip over rage. But then when you realize that some people are calculated and they are getting their thrill out of doing that, it's just a fascinating aspect of I think the human experience that there's somebody that's, let's say the reason I have a fascination with dictators and and how they can, you see certain similarities between people that commit violent crimes and certain people that are super highly malignant narcissists that run a country.

1:54:12But yeah, it's just like a study. For me, it's like the study in how somebody becomes that is what's fascinating. So like you do see parallels sometimes and then sometimes you don't and so in other words like you know There's neglect there's abuse. There's trauma and a lot of people that commit horrible acts of violence, but sometimes there isn't and I mean, I guess for me. I don't know. It's like I have always had that Curiosity about those stories because I like the story. I like learning about what somebody did and I really love learning about how somebody gets caught. I mean, those are like, you know, there's a whole genre of books and films just about these topics, obviously.

1:55:04And this is a rise with my wife's, like, I can't believe you're watching this. I mean, you think they made this for me? Like, you think I'm, there's one guy watching this? This is a fucking number one show right now. Like, like, these are, these are fascinating stories. But I think the reason they're fascinating is because it's right there. You know what I mean? You're here and you're like, there's someone who's just like dialed two degrees this way and they're doing this. So much of them are so similar and the behavior is so different. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then, I mean, yes. I mean, some of it is that you, I think here's some of these stories, you feel fear or you feel a rush.

1:55:43Or sometimes, I mean, look, there's even stories that repel you. Like there's a variety of them. I do stories that I don't even start learning about. I don't want to learn anymore about this. It just depends on the actual story. But yeah, I do, I can deeply house a true crime story. Yeah. I like documentaries. I like the limited series on all these things. I watch a lot of them. I had Marissa Harrison on. She's the world expert in female serial killers. She's suddenly a book out called Justice Deadly. And probably one in six serial killers are women, but because of the ways that they kill, it's way less newsworthy.

1:56:29So a lot of this are nurses looking after babies and infants, carers looking after old people, or disabled people, people that have got mental disorders, stuff like that. Some of them are what they're called angel of death, Mercy killing type things, but they feel like that's gonna skew because if you keep doing it over and over It's actually for the thrill the Methods are totally different as well. There's a lot of the time it's poison It's sort of surreptitious ways. It's not like and that makes it way less newsworthy as well There's like an act and a lot of blood everywhere that's a pretty big story.

1:57:04Oh my god Yeah, you know another infant dies in a ventilator or something. It's like yeah We'd never really to know but um Yeah, I know exactly what you mean this sense that this person's really similar to me and yet their outcomes in life have been really different to me and the way that they behave has been so different to me. Why? What is it about that? Why? And how does it get here? Like, what's the story and then how did they move from this to that? I mean, it's like why people always talk about these worst dictators as monsters. And then you just kind of get used to that term, but you're like, you have it there not.

1:57:47You know what I mean? Sure, their acts are what they did. It was horrible. You just remember that this is, no, it's just like another dude. He's just a guy. And he was capable of this. And I want to get to the real story of how this person... Yeah, there's a great example that Sam Harris uses about Oude, he has saying, said, I'm a sane son, uh -huh, goes on to be pretty bad guy. Yeah, yeah, kind of a Michaelhead. But you say, okay, so imagine that you're three -year -old Oude, he has saying, and you're maybe squashing bugs in the backyard. But you've grown up in this sort of crazy, honor culture, you've got the genetics of the literal fucking war criminal.

1:58:29You've got this sort of very odd reinforcement mechanism, because everybody's bowing down to you and you're a family and no one's telling you the kind of you can't do anything and you're watching your dad and do all of these things and maybe there's a, I don't know, harm or whatever the fuck. You go, okay, now you're 70 years old, you're bullying the kids in the school yard and now you're 15 years old. You got like at what point does that person kind of become the architect of themselves? You go, well, I really know, but it's an interesting question to think like from the very moment, from before the moment you were born, from the moment that you were conceived, your behavior was being shaped in this way.

1:59:01And then this interaction between the raw materials that you were made of and the environment that you were put in, especially given that the environment you're putting is usually the same one that created the materials. So there's this sort of, you know, two times, both, multiply or effect thing going on because you've got the aggressive genes and you're raised in an aggressive household which means, oh, that's the way that I deal with my anger or whatever it might be. I've got the suppress, the motion -stound gene and I saw my dad always suppress the emotions down. So I thought I never need to assert myself.

1:59:30You're gonna do it. I mean he and his brother, Oude and forget his brother's name, but you know, they would like They would pull people out of traffic like if you if you like honked at him bagged at him They just rip you out of the car fucking either kill you or just beat you throw you in a trunk They would they ran around that place like it was all theirs because it was they would fuck people up did whatever they want so Yeah, if you're born into that environment and you have, you have this, like anything you want to do is signed off on. Like, there is no accountability. It's not gonna, it's not gonna create this, this loving spirit that, you know what I mean?

2:00:15Like it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna bring out the worst in you. Yeah, those guys, I don't think they ever had a really a chance with being born and into that, in there with their father being who he was, there was never a chance those guys were gonna be good chill dudes. Who have you been fascinated by mostly in True Crime recently? Let's see, what did I most recently watch? I mean, I'm listening to that true, the Real Dictators podcast, and I'm learning about Verrella right now, one of the Argentine dictators or generals that became a dictator. And then I've been watching, I mean, I watched a bunch of the series.

2:01:03Like the thing that was fascinating to me about the, I was saying this to, I had Susan Hendrix on the CNN crime reporter, as we were discussing how like, when you watch the documentaries now about like famous cases that you grew up with, part of your brain goes, yeah, I already know that story. And then you watch these and you're like, oh, I don't remember any of this or be I didn't even had any idea about any of these details. Nothing. Like I remember when I watched the Lacey Peterson one, the Scott Peterson one, I just had like, I was like, oh yeah, I mean I remember like vaguely this detail or like the Menendez brothers.

2:01:45I was like, yeah, they shot their parents. I didn't have any recollection about the love, like the abuse that they went allegedly through at the hands of their thought. I had no recollection about that. I really didn't know the fact that like their father was so loathed by everybody he had ever interacted with that they couldn't even provide a character witness at the trial for him to speak on his behalf. On a guy that was murdered who had seemingly relationships with people he had worked with and it is not one person would be like, yeah, this was a good guy. Like details like that that really start to shape the story in your mind a little differently.

2:02:31I had forgotten, I could not believe because they had the interrogation footage of Scott Peterson just how crazy cold that guy was and how casual he was. So yeah, this is like the day they pull them in and she's missing. He's like, I'm going to fish in and like came back. The dog was barking and I hope you find her. And you're like, that's, you're like, wow, because it's what's interesting to me in that story is that the person is sure cold enough and calculated enough to do this. But they're so removed from that. How they should be behaving in that situation. and you're like, oh, you can't even, like he couldn't even, either lack the awareness or couldn't even pretend to be somebody.

2:03:21Well, I always think about that. I mean, everybody has imagined how am I going to behave? What am I going to do? Yeah. And your nervous system is just on fucking fire. Yeah. Like, it's just a dry, I would love, I mean, this would obviously never happen. But I would love for a human or someone to get in and tap that cortisol and they're adrenaline. You see what's, what is going on under the hood? because that would, everything, all your hearing is just this, ringing in your ears, you've had the same thought over and over and over again, you're watching the interrogators, seeing what they're saying, thinking, what should I say here?

2:03:54You're four steps removed from being in the room. Yeah. You know, you're thinking about how you should act based on what you know that the interrogator thinks about what you should be doing. If you were the person that did that, there's too many hoops you're going through. So it's, but this is the other thing where you're not maddling McCann case. Yeah. Yeah, so missing girl, three -year -old girl, I think from Portugal in the 90s, British girl, who was there on holiday. And one of the criticisms that her parents had, one of the criticisms lodged against her parents was that on the press tour, they didn't seem like they were behaving like grieving parents.

2:04:26Yes. And you go, so I get that. And in some situations, that might be an indication of guilt. But also, what does a grieving parent that's faced with an entire press call behave? What is normal in that situation? In that situation. Same, John, Bane, criticism. And it really made me think about, did you watch American Nightmare? No. So this is one of the most... Is that the one next door? No, that was, that was mode in next door. I saw the one. Yeah, that's the different one. Or into the fire, that one's fucking... That's really crazy. But American Nightmare, the most fascinating aspect of the story to me, which, I don't know how to tell it without giving to, but the most fascinating aspect is that on episode one, this guy tells, he's telling you that as the interviewer, but they go to the interrogation footage telling the police of what just happened, which is that he was with his girlfriend and somebody came in and tied them up, gave them something to drive.

2:05:31I have seen this, I have seen this. Yes, yes, yes, yes. and kidnap her, right? And you're watching this and you're like, this guy is full of shit, like something is off. The, he is not speaking to the police in the way that he should. That he should. His emotions are not reading the way that I know they should. The second episode begins and they're talking to the woman and she's telling, you're seeing her in the interrogation and you're still like, yeah, this is not, this is not. And then when you get through the story, you're like, oh, they were both telling the truth. And I'm sorry, I just ruined it for everybody.

2:06:11But that was like the real, I was like, that was the thing that threw me the most. It was like, no, I know how you're supposed to behave in a truthful way. And this is not that. So this is not truthful. And then you're like, wait a minute, this was truthful. And that to me was like, the most, I still couldn't get over it. The way that he was talking about what had just happened. and I was like, I understood actually why the police were like, this is you, dude. Yeah. What the fuck? And the same thing with the girl, they're like, well, she's full of shit. This is not. It's like the party, and they seem like they're seemingly normal, like they're nice people, at least they can come across this way when you see them like in the moment now telling the story, but you're like, the fuck was going on?

2:06:56And maybe as what's going on is what you were saying, is that their systems were so... So looking far in that. Yeah. So this is this really interesting idea called the Keynesian Beauty Contest. So in a Keynesian Beauty Contest, you're not asked to pick which is the most beautiful model, the imaginary beauty contest. You're not asked to pick out of ten, which you think is the most beautiful. You're asked to pick which you think the other judges will pick as the most beautiful model. Oh, yeah. So rather than choosing your own opinion, you're trying to outsource this sort of fake consensus using theory of mind to all of the other people that are in the room.

2:07:28And I always think about that Keynesian beauty contest thing in situations like this, because there will be a sense in the back of these people's minds, except for the person that's so stricken and sort of taken by their emotions that they all of that second, third, fourth order processing is just like fucked off out of the room. But there will be people that like, I bet they think it's me. How can I make sure that they don't think it's me? God, I'm so sad that this thing happened. I'm so traumatized from this thing. They think it's me. It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's just bouncing around.

2:07:53You're okay. What's the, how do you get yourself? you're trying to be the normal, both guilty and innocent. Yeah. I'm trying to be the version of me that I think they would want to see right if I wasn't guilty. And by doing that, I'm getting in the way of being the unencumbered version. It's the same as watching the standard person on stage. It's like I'm trying to be a standard comic that isn't nervous and isn't bumbling through his line. Exactly. Therefore I am doing the - So I don't want you. Yeah, you're right. You go, I just, whatever that person is doing is not, I wanna watch the person who feels control and is like, you know, confident, whatever.

2:08:33Like the, I want it. It is, yeah, at ease. I wanna see that. And it's true, what's funny is that like you, with the, like the Scott Peterson example, you automatically go, right, but this person jumping through hoops because they're lying and they want you to not know that they're lying. With the other one, what's so interesting is that he's telling the truth, but he's probably like, I hope you believe that I'm telling you. I am convinced. I don't know how to, because what you do is you think about times where you realize someone has thought, are you telling us, and you're trying to convey, no, I am.

2:09:01I'm telling you what really happened. You can see doubt in their face. You can see that. So you lean into this weird, there's a fascinating insight around guilt. So this fucking broke my brain when I realized this. Our level of guilt is directly proportional to the likelihood that we think that we're going to get caught. So if you've ever noticed that you do a small in discretion that you know that no one will find out about your way less guilty about it, then if you do a larger in discretion that you think you're going to get caught for. So it's like an early warning system that like maybe you should behave in a slightly different way or maybe you should own up to this before you get found out.

2:09:36But if you like no one's around it's late at night you toss a coca -can out of the window. Yeah, I feel like guilty. You toss a coca in front of a family that's walking past and the stroll is about to go over the top of it. You're like, holy fuck, like they know that the... It's gonna sit with you. Yeah, so guilt being an in proximity to your likelihood of being caught this early warning signal. I always think about that. Is that like a scientifically studied thing? It's a positive theory. I mean, you could observe it, but you're listening to psychology suggests that this would be one of the mechanisms by which...

2:10:09It makes a lot of sense. I mean, we just see it in ourselves, right? You can observe it within yourself. Doesn't necessarily need to be a lawyer, it's just something that you can notice. But yeah, I always think about like going back to times when I felt really, really guilty. I'm like, yeah, I was pretty sure that someone was gonna find out about the thing that I did. Yeah, that makes so much sense. And I want, but like people who commit these some of these heinous crimes, you know, they're not gonna feel guilt one way or the other. But it's interesting that like maybe somebody who doesn't have that personality disorder, that guilt shows itself if they start to feel the likelihood that they're going to get caught.

2:10:48Well, think about what we were saying earlier on, that the lovable oath, type of thing, it feels less threatening to us. In a way, I wonder whether the person who makes killings out of rage feels less threatening to us than the cold, calculated killer who should detach from it. Because you go, okay, well, if they're not in rage, if I don't enrage them, I'm sweet. Also, we all can relate. There's a little bit of being right. We've all been enriched. So that's a big factor there. It's a few of us. It's relatable. Have been dexter with the scalpel. Yeah. When you hear about somebody who has a zero emotion about going in and tying up and cutting somebody open, that's not, you're not like, yeah, I've been there, man.

2:11:31It's a totally different thing. So that that person I think is definitely the more terrifying one. Far -Count. What have you got coming up next? What can people expect from me? Well, I'm on tour. So I've been on tour and it will continue through the rest of this year. I have a series that I don't know if I might be able to announce it yet. I can, sort of. Yeah, loosely. It's coming. Then the spring, something will happen over the next few months. You'll see something in the spring. I'll shoot something else later This year and I'll tell you about it later You put it to see eye eye now you put it from Cabin it you know what's so funny is like they always have these Like don't say a thing and then you're like okay, and then when you do you're like nobody fucking cares dude like yeah But yeah stuff is coming soon stuff is coming soon and more stuff will come later and I also have a few other stuff that I'll do later in the year.

2:12:34Dude, why does it sign off? It's awesome. I mean, I'm looking forward to bringing you back home. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me, man. Appreciate you.