#994 - Sam Sulek - The Endless Pursuit of Progress

27:45How difficult has it been to maintain a simple lifestyle now? because I can't imagine that training in the gyms near you is quite as peaceful as it used to be. That may be a little, but it's actually the best there out of anywhere. Apart from people that have seen you a million times. I've been at this gym since I started working out. So I see all the same people working there. It's amazing. If anything, they're probably like, he's on my machine. Like, oh my god, Sam's on the Smith. I want to... It's going to be that for 30 minutes, motherfucker. It's just like an exposure thing, you know, like just from being there so much.

28:21But when I get to visit places, that's where it's a little crazier. Or like even it's kind of the classic trope of holy, my Instagram just blew up. Go to LA. I'm out of here. And it's a, you're kind of boxing yourself in because now you're doing whatever one else does. For me, I've been like, the gym is going to have the same weights anywhere. where the whole point of social media is you can do it from anywhere. I don't need to uproot my whole life and everyone that I know just because that's what other people do. So it's at home, it's like very normal. But it's definitely different. But as different as it is, I got this a lot, it's like how crazy is this?

29:04And like objectively, it's totally crazy. Like I can still see that from before to now. But you do get a little bit exposed to it just from, it never just happened. Like first it was like one guy at a Kroger said, well, I saw you on my phone earlier and there was a video that had like 2000 views. Like it just happened because that was the start. And then like the next week there's another guy. And then it's like all very like 0 .1 % increases over time. So there was no moment where the frog jumped out of the boiling water. because it just raised temperature super slowly. But it's definitely crazy how big it's all going to scale.

29:47But at home, it's pretty normal. How do you not get distracted as more options come onto the table? I think I've still got a little bit of that kind of, I don't want to say hater preconception, but almost like hardheadedness of like, I know what I'm doing, I know what I want to do. I know who I wouldn't want to like get involved with because it sounded like everyone on social media is always the nicest person ever Like it's it's like anything so I can see Guys where I would say I like this guy this guy's cool. We have talked before. Let's do something but Even and I always think about this to the expo's like to see an expo Everyone just left this lift London and they are getting after it.

30:33This year is their year. I saw, I saw your cladest David Lade Phil Heath was there. This is going to be sweet. In a week that that motivation is going to it's going to dwindle because this is this is like the just for show part and in the moment it's super flashy but you know even the workouts I got to do with some of the gym show guys like Jackie Eels and Marcus and like it's really fun because I get to lift with guys who are kind of higher level advanced, like Jack Eagles is a total beast. But that's, you know, countered by the three months of workouts I just did on my own, which were only for the purpose of like progress.

31:12So it's, it's like there's a ratio of like fun to work where like, you know, how many, there would be a million hours of, I always reference the basketball players because they're such a good example of a lot of practice before performance. And it's like how long When would you sit and watch a Kobe Bryant shoot free throws? How long would you watch LeBron do drilling drills? You wouldn't, but that's the kind of, I see a lot of quotes where it's like, those are the glorialist battles which, when one, add up to a seamless victory. But it's like, you can't forget that all happened before. But it's easy to, when all you see is that end result.

31:55like when we're all in match track suits, we're freaking into our team. Don't forget everybody is now going back to where they belong, not belong, but back to where they're from. To do the boring stuff. And they're all gonna get back to work. They're all going back to normal. Dude, it's the same with the show. It's, this is fun and it's cool, but. That's not, over this weekend. You know, I landed on Thursday, I had the athlete venue thing on Friday with all of us going. I didn't get to do the athlete workout on the Friday afternoon because I had to go back and prep and read. And then I had to do it before we left on Saturday and then left early on Saturday.

32:39And then on Sunday did it all morning and then didn't get to go to the product showcase last night for the same thing. So yeah, you're right. It's 95 % 98 % of it is all of this stuff, which is me looking at a laptop or me with a Kindle or me with a book or me with notes or me walking and going, the fuck do I think about that thing? What's the idea? What's the name for that concept? What's it? And then, okay, I get to come back and finally have some fun. But there's a cool story from Atomic Habits by James Clear. And I think it was the lead coach of maybe the Chinese weightlifting team. Or maybe this is Ben Burjeron's chasing excellence.

33:17It's one of the two. And they spoke to the lead coach of Chinese weightlifting team. They said, what's the difference between the guys who are elite and the guys that are world champions? And he said it's the world champions that are prepared to do the most boring work with the least amount of complaining. And I just really like that idea because especially as things become more successful, and this is like a really unpopular talking point on the internet because everybody wants to hear the zero to one, not the 50 to 55 or 80 to 85 or 95 to 96. They don't want to hear about the top end stuff because it doesn't sound, it sounds more exclusionary, right?

33:59Because by definition most people are on the come -up as opposed to closer to the top. But I think it's important to give people an idea of what are the pitfalls that are coming up for you If you do what you say that you want to achieve which is become better in whatever it is that you even becoming better Is a parent becoming better as a dog owner becoming better as a friend or whatever as you become more advanced There will be fewer and fewer people that can give you advice about what you're gonna come up against anyway point is People that are prepared to show up and do boring things as their situation becomes more luxurious, feels sort of opulent.

34:35You know, if you're a world champion Chinese weightlifter, I imagine you've probably got your meals cooked for you, you'll have bodywork, you'll have a coach, you'll have a mindset person, you'll have friends, you'll be living in a house, it's probably quite nicely put together a bed that's constructed for your particular physiology, firmness, all that sort of stuff. And you think how do you remain hungry to go in and do an hour of mobility work four times a week when you have your meals cooked for you and you've got a custom built pillow and stuff. And that preparedness to accept no matter how good I get at this thing.

35:17I will always have to do boring shit. And that's not a bug. It's a feature. And not only is it a feature, it's a source of competitive advantage because as things get more salubrious as you raise up through the ranks, other people will have the same thought that you do, which is I shouldn't need to do this shit anymore. You go, okay, so if you can continue to lean into the stuff that you did at the start, at the end, that's where the competitive advantage lies. I think. Yeah, I was just seeing the math to make sure I knew what it all added up to, but not even including, because before the bodybuilding show that it did, I go, I was dining for like five months, but just counting the year from January until that first show, a three month period, there was five days straight of cardio.

36:07It was 120 hours because it was, it was 30 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes after the workout for two of those months. And then for one of those months was an hour in the morning and an hour after So five like who would even be able to watch Five hours or something like that let alone bird five days or something like that let alone do it And that's the stuff I don't show off because I mean for one nobody even cared to watch it, but it's um It's like a it's like a hidden quest in a video game Where it's actually the most valuable thing or like it's straight on Indiana Jones when he's got to pick the premises he's in this kind of magical cave if you haven't seen it and there's a million goal or like there's a hundred gold chalices and they're all super flashy and if you pick the correct one you get in eternal life or something whatever So there's two guys that show up.

37:07There's any other Jones and then another like villain guy and he picks the flashiest most diamond and Crested one he could get his hands on like what he thinks would be the trick drinks from it, it's really dead, or something like that. It's been a while. And then Indiana Jones picks the scrappy wooden one. And that was the secret, the one that was understated. And it's, so that gets me motivated to do that kind of stuff and track all my cardio and calories and everything, because I know it's value, because I've done it and gotten the value from it. So I know that it actually, like, is the trick.

37:40But if you've never done it, you don't have that proof. and it's always a what if. And that's everything. Honestly, that's the, at least stateside, that's your kind of program to do that. Middle school, high school, okay, you have to go to college to get this job to do this. Like the idea of getting into like a trade or getting into like, I think I have this awesome business idea, that is the minority by far. So branch off from this condition path, and it's not like it's bad, but so many people might have been able to do so many awesome things if they could really do what they wanted to do instead of just you know following the beaten path.

38:23If you're succeeding in a life that you hate imagine how great you'd be at one that you actually enjoyed. There's so many people that are crushing it and then not fight up for what they do. Imagine how good you could be if you actually woke up on the morning and were excited for what you were about to do. It was a, and that might just be a time thing. Like there's a video of Seinfeld in the interview and I don't know if I call it the greatest source of whatever, but he's like, you know, back in the 90s, back in the 80s, the flex was like, what do you do for work? And that's a little different because I mean inflation and whatever, but at the time at At least it was, oh, this guy has a cooler job than me.

39:11Oh, this guy worked at a guitar shop. That's cool. I'm a freaking accountant. That's just paper, everything. And it's very monetarily driven. Like, one of the three classics, it's like sex, drugs, and money. That's monetized, social media -wise, in its own way, the sex side. But in regular Instagram, and when it comes to at least the money side that you don't have to do anything. You don't have to be an interesting guy at all. If you get your hands on a super fancy car and make some videos about it, you don't even have to, you could know someone who had it and he let you, and that's your whole gimmick.

39:49Just the fact that you like have something this valuable. And for me, I'm like, that sucks. Like you didn't, you didn't do anything to get that. And the ones that did, well, they don't even care to show it off, because they are kind of, you know, comfortable enough with wherever they're at. Where it's like guys who say, oh, dude, I'm gonna do a bodybuilding show. I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna be the next whoever. My thought on that is always, you're trying to essentially argue your case to the universe and internally in your mind that, you know, kind of idea to propel, like convince everyone you can do it, may come from an internal doubt of, I don't know if I can do it, but I want to, I want to do it.

40:35I don't know if I can do it. I'm going to tell everyone I can do it and then maybe I'll be able to convince myself. So it's not bad to want to say that and then still really go after it. But like, however I'm wired, I don't exactly want to talk about what I'm going to do. And it might be a little bit of a defense mechanism for me because if I have a plan to do something and then it totally flops. Well, no one knew us. You don't set a goal. You can't fail. Nobody knew I was going to do it. So I don't, but I don't think it's as much of that as it is, like, you know, and the social media side, if I said I was going to do a bodybuilding show in six months, the whole time people would, people would say like, he's not going to do it.

41:15So I'm like, I don't want to talk about it. So usually it's like, okay, 12 weeks out. videos, you know, transformation programs, like just really hyping it up months in advance. So for me with mine, it was like, all right, we're doing a show on like three days. Why are you ready? Yeah. Not even to give anybody the opportunity to think it wouldn't happen. Because then you just do it. And that's already way more impactful because anybody could say they're gonna do it. But to actually like have that belief very firmly, or it's not even a belief. It's like an under I want to have an understanding that I know I can get where I want to go, where it's to the point where you don't believe that if I knock this water, I was going to spill everywhere.

42:03You know it. You know that's what is going to happen from the circumstance. So if you're really, and maybe in the beginning, I'm sure some of it was just from optimal delusion, but I think you might even need some of that just to get started. But now it's to the point where I know what I'll be capable of or I know what I am capable of and I want to at least Reach that level of you know effort and consistency with the things that I'm really into I'm not like that with everything But with the working at least very specifically like that's my thing You know all your eggs and not all your eggs in one basket most but if most of them were in there You should give it a lot of attention And I know I'll feel better if I do this episode is brought to you by momentous Trust really is everything when it comes to supplements.

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43:52I'm monomistum. I check out. When it comes to prep, first bodybuilding show this year, male body dysmorphia is on track to overtake female body dysmorphia within a couple of decades. What's your relationship with the mirror like? I was definitely feeling it a little because you are, It's one day where you just really depleted all your water. Like you will never look like that on a regular day -to -day basis. And I mean, it's also kind of an interesting look. Like do you really want to look like a stage bodybuilder all the time? Like I get, so I get the allure there for the day. But afterward, like actually eat more food and kind of get a little bit softer just from, because that's the nature of it, that was actually when I did feel it a little.

44:36Because I was just looking at the absolute craziest version of myself ever. And now I'm not that. But it's kind of a, it's more of a mental thing where what do you imagine yourself as? When you think of Chris Williams and are you thinking awesome lighting, huge jacked, ripped, pumped up? Yes, keep going. I'm thinking, or at least I tried to like imagine myself more so as like just like how I look in the day. Like the more the larger I've gotten, just in like the pursuit of size, the more comfortable I've gotten with like just the fact that I'm as big as I am, where I don't feel the need to like only post my biggest picture and like even go so far it's like Photoshop it or like that's just sucks.

45:22Not only is that like you're just lying by doing that, which for the people you're showing is that's stupid, that's rough, but you're lying to yourself because you're definitely looking at that picture and thinking, you know, that's how I look. That's not how you look. When I'm pumped up in the gym, that is its own circumstance, which is cool in its own way, and then I can go back to what I normally look like. And for me, I've been so like real progress driven with the gym, where I'm not so concerned with how do I look today for everyone who's gonna see me. And those guys are the guys who stay lean all year round, always posting Instagram.

45:58Because the skyd of getting too fluffy to make the longer term progress. Well, maybe that's scared in every case, because if that's the look that you really want, then you're good. That's sweet. You actually kind of did it. But if you're someone where you actually are scared of that, then that's the motivation. It's just fear of looking a little softer or anything. And I mean, we're not helping. You know, guys who post a really crazy picture aren't exactly helping the situation, because they're showing a totally crazy version. But that's where I mean, it's just how it is. So it's kind of your responsibility to try to grasp it more objectively.

46:34Like these guys look like this because of everything that they're doing. You can't forget that. Do you see this with the funds that you interact with? You know, you've got young followers. What's your demographic? What's the? It's wide. It's probably evenly dispersed between 18 and below 18 to like 30 and then 30 and above. Because I'll get, I mean, I'm getting off flights and like this older pilot is like, has my landing Sam. Like it took me a second. But like way wider than I ever would have guessed. Well, even within that right, guys, I guess of all ages. Yeah, we're everybody in the gym together.

47:15The male body to small, if you think, just, I think it really fascinates me. I think we've got a good cultural narrative and archetype around, and body positivity for all that there were lots of things that was maybe a little contrived with that for women. I don't think we've had the same sort of a movement for men. And I think that that's where this male body dysmorphia thing really, really ramping up. I mean, you saw bigger, stronger faster, right? Where Luke Skywalker action figure in the 60s was sort of like nerdy dude. And then in the 90s, he's been doing five by five for a few years. And then by sort of the 2000s, he's been on a very, very heavy course of trend.

47:55And you go, why does Luke Skywalker need striated doubts? So you've got this big flation thing that's going on. But that's a new, I mean, when did Rocky come out? That's true. But I think if you were to look at how prevalent that's been the saturation level of... Much more than they think. Yeah, if Rocky as a boxer is ripped, Yeah, is it a realist? A many boxes that built, probably not. But like, at the very least, the nerdy dude, the like swings the lightsaber around, probably not him. But there's no area now that's beyond somebody being jacked for it. I'm just interested in what you're seeing from your audience and what you think for sort of younger generations, even younger than you that are coming up now to try and have this balance.

48:45I want to look better, but I don't want to... I don't feel indeficent and I don't want to go through life hating the mirror. Yeah, that's definitely an angle I have to bring up. Or that is someone like to be looked at. But in terms of the situation, I think guys are always gonna have it easier because as much of a standard as there is, it's still not the same as for women. And guys are more likely to look at things as like, Shit man, I'm just fat. Or like if you're a guy like that could just be like, like guys will joke around with each other like that because like that's just kind of how we are.

49:20It's a little more, I don't wanna say playful but you could say kind of blunt like that. But it's not as likely to eat it us. I'm not exactly the guy to go to to be like, what was it like to lose 300 pounds? I can try to guess, I don't know for sure. But I think it's definitely increasing the more prevalent fitness is becoming, but it's something where another middle ground, like, okay, I either have to look like a Ronnie Coleman or like a Greg Plitt or I'm completely worthless, which is this side of the scale, which that sucks. Or, man, I don't care how I look, I'm gonna be 400 pounds and I'm gonna love it.

50:02There's no problem with this at all. And that sucks too. So there is a middle ground of where I think it's important to, you can be your own like worst critic, but it's different if you're your own worst, if you're your own worst hater. You can tell yourself you have things that you want to work on, but to really self depreciate and like, oh, just such a, I hate to hear it. I'll see guys where they, I'm into the gym and it's always the same guy I referenced here because it was so egregious. every time I'd come into work out he's like how you do man he's like shit squandered I hate it I want to get out of here but he's not joking and I mean for him that's where it goes back to like sometimes it's a self soothing behavior to say oh this all sucks so bad and you're like releasing your responsibility for the situation like I have an ex -sucks just how it is but it's yeah that's what I I really like to hear the most because for a high school guy to go from like one 60 normal looking dude to pretty big.

51:06I mean, after a year of only working out, no diet at all, you can look pretty good. You drastically different, but it didn't take that much because you do get that early starting point of, well, you were already pretty lean. New games are real, did you? Yeah, new games. Right in the beginning, you're the most susceptible to your training. So for someone to show me their fat loss transformation, like, dude, look at this picture. And it's not the guy I'm looking at right now. Like it's 150 pounds. So these guys could be in, like my gyms that I go to, and he's with his dad, and like we get a little picture, and then, you know, he walks off and does a set, and then his dad's telling me, he's like, dude, he started watching, he's talking about dieting, like he really got into it.

51:51I never could have guessed this what happened. completely changed the dude's life. But not because I said something, but because he took the action to do it. When someone does that, honestly, out of everything, even someone who had a regular, maybe they started off a little leaner, they got pretty big, they had a big bench or something. I'm always more impressed and I can actually get a look. Something about like, I know that you know about the things that I really value. the doing cardio time, tracking your calories, going into your kitchen, like, I wanna eat something, I'm not gonna do it though.

52:30I can handle this internal battle, I'm giving myself, and actually making it happen, and like losing, cause losing so that much weight is like, I don't know about 10 times, but it's up there in a multiplicity of difficulty from just working out and liking it, and getting a little more muscle. So those are the guys where when I hear that, I'm like, we're gonna talk for a little longer. Like we're not, we're gonna have a little chat here. Like that's what I wanna hear. You mentioned sort of some of the differences between guys and girls that you've gained what, hundred pounds ish probably something.

53:06Yeah, from bottom to top. About a hundred, yeah. Yeah. A lot of muscle, great condition. You look fantastic on the stage. Given that most guys go to the gym in order to get attention from girls, What is the ratio of attention that you get from guys and girls now that you are in the big 200s? Yeah, right. I don't know about the if the social media stats or any indicator or like what what your gender demographics are But at least from my like long -form videos where people are actually Coming to watch me talk about working out and like the things that go along with it. It's um I call them the four percenters because it's the four percent female viewers and And I mean, it's not like unreasonable because I'm talking about working out as a guy from a guy's perspective.

53:54But I mean, I'll chime in because sometimes I'll be like, I'm sorry, I'm not the guy to watch for glute training. So it's sometimes where if someone's, you know, dude, I want to get into a serious... I'm going to really lock in. I want to know what it's like to lose 300 pounds. I want to know what it's like to whatever. like that's where I'm gonna say, I can tell you what I know, but if you wanna watch someone who did it, then you gotta watch somebody else and kind of get inspired from their track. What about IRL? Because you know, guys that might not even know who you are as you're getting bigger than dude.

54:26What are you doing for arms? Yeah, the many girls that come up and go, Sam, like you go for arms, like we're getting so big. So that's one thing which was not the motivation because the guys who think, even the idea is strange. Oh, if I was a big, if I was just bigger, it'd be all over me. If my doubts were a little, that's not the value system for sure. But if you get big enough, they will come up and talk to you and they'll say, my brother loves you. My boyfriend loves you. Could you take a picture so I get sent it to him? Because I see you on his phone so much that they don't watch the videos, but they see him like secondarily.

55:11So it actually, if you get big enough girls will talk to you because they will come up and ask you for a picture for their dad.

55:21There's a mean online that you have a fear of women. So that plays back into the earlier TikToks where my formula, which I just thought was funny, but like how all my things were was if you want to post a video about working out in like a 10 second little short like you might think you want to talk about how serious the gym is or have like a like don't even do a caption just just say like grind or like you don't know what it takes but how I've always looked at it is like if you're big you have already said that you are serious like unspokenly just from how you are as a guy or what the video was like clearly you're serious because you have these results that you're showing off in the video to say anything like a motivational just thing on top of that, which like if it's a motivational video that's different, but in terms of like regular kind of content, like you're putting a hat on a hat.

56:17For me, it's like post a workout video that's just really cool and hype of the workout. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm just at 315, but then the caption is like just something silly. Something you wouldn't expect, because it's like, you know, the only reason I want to get strong is so I can protect my cats at home. I'm like, I had to cut this workout short today. My mom had to pick me up to go get groceries. I like something silly, because that's not something you'd expect. And everybody always posts that you'd want to post like, oh I'm so serious. Hot, cool, grind sets. So it's almost like, you know, just, you can be, if you're serious enough about something, it's even funnier when you're silly with something else.

56:58What's that got to do with the fear of women thing? Because that's his own joke. You would think big, bro, like a guy, like just from what we were saying before, it's like, oh, you're working as a get girls. That is kind of, and I didn't come up with that joke, like I saw it before, it kind of just, like, it happened to scale a little more with me. But it's like, that's his own joke of like, oh, it's just big, like, masculine dude, whatever. like, can I work in with you? And then in the video, I just like disappear, like teleport. Because that's just something that you wouldn't expect. Like, it's fine.

57:27Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then it, you know, then it bled into like real life where like we didn't meet in greets. And like the first time I ever took a picture and there was a girl there, all the comments were like, what the fuck? What the fuck? What? It's like they'd been betrayed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, what do you... In a world where that was actually the case, what do you want there to be like guys this means greets guys so. Yeah, well that wouldn't, you're at least going to get 4 % based on your demo. That's 4%. Yeah exactly. The Instagram's 20 % but that's because it's Instagram. Because that's not like really watching your stuff.

58:05Like I think the most real viewers and the most real feedback and comments that's on the YouTube because there's a lot of intent to watch a whole workout or even some of a workout. Whereas on Instagram you can just something can be shown to you scrolled away. It's like nothing. You were posting on, you may still do Spotify video, I think. There's stuff that gets reposted in there. That's not you. That's not your channel. I'll get into it. I've got a couple of things where it's like on the list of things that kind of track down and get control on. They do video now so you can basically do that.

58:34Yeah, so you just plug it over there. The whole thing. I think that'll be good because people, it would certainly work to listen to. Yeah, because you can just listen to the whole thing. Maybe I'm cutting in there. That's something where if it was an audio form, I'd probably cut some of that out. Instead of the workouts, sounds, and ASMR, I'd probably just say what the workout was, and it's own little mini segment in the middle, and then talk about it after. Because yeah, that's its own joke. It'll be, dude, don't watch this video without headphones. Or my wife came in and she thought I was watching, like, whatever.

59:08And it's, so I actually think, I don't know. I just, for me, that makes me feel like I'm keeping it real, but is it too much? Hmm, so I don't know. I'm not too worried about it. Before we continue, you are probably not eating enough fruit and vegetables, and you know it, and this is going to help. Good news, AG1, just released their next gen formula. It is a more advanced clinically backed version of the product that I've been drinking every day for years. So you still get the same one scoop ritual, but now with an even more thoughtful formulation flavor and four clinical trials behind it. Agey 1 has been evolving since 2010 continuously improving, alongside the latest research in Agey 1 next gen, is the result clinically shown to help fill comment nutrient gaps and support gut health, even in people who already eat well.

59:53In one study, it boosted healthy bacteria in the gut by 10 times. And if you're still unsure, they've got a 90 -day money -back guarantee. So you can buy it and try it for three months. And if you don't like it, they'll give you your money back. Right now, you can get A .Y .'s free supply Vitamin D3, K2 and 5 free AG1 travel packs plus the 90 day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinkag1 .com slash modern wisdom that's drinkag1 .com slash modern wisdom bodybuildings already a rough sport physically psychologically home only how much are you thinking about longevity at the moment and the tradeoffs that's That's one thing I'll bring up because it's like guys will ask me, are you going to move to open?

1:00:39Are you going to, or it can't wait to see you as Mr. Olympia. Like as though it's, that's the track that I'm on. And for me, it's more so it's like, okay, what am I willing to do that adds to this whole thing with bodybuilding that will take me, you know, a certain degree of distance, right? Because if you're a top level Olympia competitor, that comes with its own things, you know, It's not as though bodybuilding on a competitive level is, I'm not either one to say recommend, because I'm not a complete G of bodybuilding, like a J -Cutler or a real commentator or a judge would be who's been in the sport for years, but it's not something to be pursued forever.

1:01:24Actually, the bigger I've gotten, the more I've started to be content with the size I already am, where I used to imagine 300 pound sam sulik. Like yeah, once I get to 300, that'll start to be, but it's something where when you actually get to a different position just over time and like through progress, you're gonna have a different perception of like what you actually want. Because even though you may have reached that level from having a certain goal, now you're a completely different person with different circumstances. And as good as that goal may have been to motivate you in the beginning.

1:01:58Sometimes that can change. And it's not a giving up. It's just you've gotten a better perspective and now you know more to make a better decision. That's a really fantastic point that adjusting your goals as you get closer to them to some people feels like seeding ground. You've already done the hard part. why you're not applying more pressure and really, really pushing. But the same as what you considered to be a good dish when you were starting out as a chef will not be what you considered to be a good dish as you become more sophisticated. And that dish may be more simple. So you may start out making these really complex things with 500 ingredients.

1:02:46Well, actually, you know, just a good pasta. You can just nail a good pasta and I think that that's pretty sweet. So, yeah, the ability to discern good from bad, like taste, like what's something that's a tasteful goal for me to go toward, what's something that resonates, how do I realize as I get closer to something that maybe the latter I was climbing was kind of leaning up against the wrong wall a little bit, so I'm just going to adjust it and I'm going to keep climbing over here. And it's a, with Bonnie Billy, at least there's a few examples, I mean, actually I'm sure there's thousands where it's just, it's not highlighted on social media so I wouldn't have any input on when this might happen.

1:03:22But with bodybuilding, it's not something I'd recommend for everyone. Like when I see the, I'd say it's prevalence now, like the idea of I need to be a bodybuilder or like a younger guy saying I have to be able to get on stage at a certain point, I think it's a bit over -inflated in its value because it's very showy. You only see that little flash, you kind of point at the end. And it's also in a scope of social media where like as much as I'm not trying to overdo it and make myself like look cooler Better like portray the crazy lifestyle that I might actually live like it's still kind of flashy in its presentation So if you get obsessed with like the idea of something To actually approach what that real thing is And now your idea of it is actually going to become a real understanding of it and you'll realize like I mean, I went, like those guys where they have gone pro, like they really got into it.

1:04:22They were 100 % serious. And then they realized this isn't for me. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, not, like back pedal isn't the right word. I'm gonna just redirect towards something which I actually value now. And if at any point that would happen, then that's what I would do. How do you now personally weigh health versus aesthetics? You've got this. Well, I mean everybody, there's actual like numerical metrics, you know, everyone's getting there. Like honestly, I think everybody should be getting their blood tested, even just at a curiosity. That's something you're doing regularly. Yeah, yeah. So that's definitely like anybody who's serious about bodybuilding, they're all getting relatively extensive blood tests pretty regularly.

1:05:06And if they're not, then like you are missing out. But what sucks is actually it's some, I'm kind of spoiled because my general practitioner or we'll order all my stuff. Like a full panel of everything. Whereas a lot of doctors, like all hear stories where it's like, you know, can I just get, like can I just get my test level? A normal dude. You're young, you don't have to worry about something like that. And it's like, I mean, I'm sure you've got your own take on it, but it's just kind of this behind the curve sort of thing. Because that's something like, could, What if you're a guy where you're straight up hypogonaddle and you're you might be literally whatever value is Barely any mm.

1:05:50That could totally 50s of the 200s or something I'm saying like if if there are somebody where they're under 100 and it's like You didn't have any control over that and if your hormones are totally out of whack Then that would be warrant for intervention and that was something that would be totally like doctor viewed but what I see a lot is you could take that statement and stretch it as far as it could go to justify the craziest things like it's with that and I see a lot in training a 50 -year -old X 900 -pound squatter complete like real experience and respect in the space will make a video and he's training now still and he's been training for 40 years or 35 years and he'll say you know right now it's back squats.

1:06:36They're just not, they're a risk or a reward ratio. It's not there. It's too much on my lower back. My knees are, they've been kind of worn. So for me, I've got a sick to more, like lighter leg press and, you know, just more kind of stable movements. And that's backed by his situation. And someone who's kind of starting a little earlier in the gym, they might have an awesome grasp of everything. We'll hear that. And then that's an easy argument to say, well, this guy said, you don't even need a squat. I'm not squatting. Dude, squats, like not even an acceptance of like, I don't want a squat, that's why I don't do it.

1:07:14But just this, you know, trying to bring the bar down to their level of like, well, I'm not willing to squat. I don't want to do it. If I can justify why I don't need to do it, then actually I'm not skipping anything. I'm doing it right by doing less. What's the line, what's the linkage or analogy between that and the bloods? Yeah, it's just because then somebody could say, oh, my test was probably super low anyway. They didn't even get it. Somebody could say, it's like, I looked at, I was looking at WebMD and it's like the, so I don't bring that up as much, but then the normalcy and like the, generally the condition of just like that's not a big deal.

1:07:59Like that's not something I'm happy about. Let me give you this. According to the American Eurological Association, 25 % of patients on TRT never had the testosterone checked. One -third weren't even deficient. I saw that last week. But what's the age demographic? Because if that's still like what somebody would conventionally say a normal age to be, like a 35 above, I think that's a much different situation than anything earlier because you're literally still a developing dude. That is a thing that you're messing with, which is not just like, yeah, it's just, you know, whatever. We were talking before we got started about some of the challenges you have helped wise with bulking up and what that does to you, the way that you fairly have already mentioned mobility, what are some of the unseen side effects of gaining so much weight in such a short space of time as a young dude?

1:09:00Yeah, and it's, so that's one thing that's kind of interesting because there's this sort of, I almost want to say just what you would call your how you're carrying the weight that you're carrying. Because right now I'm like, I'm 250. And I'm actually a little bit lighter from this whole week of everything we've been doing and not even as much food and traveling. But still, I feel very light. I do not feel as though I'm super heavy because in the range of my big and bulked weight, so my lighter, carb depleted, maybe a little less hydrated weight, I'm on the bottom end of that scale. Whereas two years ago, for me to really bulk up to 250 and be a very water -retentive, Like it felt completely different.

1:09:47Like bend over to put your shoes on and like you can feel, you're like, oh, you're almost whole new breath because there's so much pressure. Like yeah, you got a full stomach, like just things like that. But the scale really could, I mean, it's so gradual. Or no, it's so extensive. Because anything that I could say, like I fit in an airplane seat fine. Like I, that's not, that's an Eddie Hall, Ronnie Coleman. Ronnie Schull problem. Problem. Yeah. Yeah, like I'm big, but I'm still like relatively human shaped, you know? Like, like muscle does not exceed my frame. Like if you looked at a, like a very good example, be a Derek Wensford.

1:10:23Yes. And I, I'll bring him up sometimes because he's got a really interesting look because you could basically describe him as you took a regular, I mean, he's like a regular lean guy and you just drag the muscle scale all the way to the max. because I mean sometimes to even get to that size, it just has an effect. Let's see why. He's gotta be heavy. I don't know any exact terms, and it's different when you're shorter too. So someone who's 6 '3 at 200 is very different than someone at 5 '4 at 200. So he's, well, he's heavy. But he's like crazy big. So for him, he's got his own, that's where, when we were talking on our panel talk yesterday, when the guy said, like what if you had a change about your sleep from being so big?

1:11:10Like those guys must have their own stories or like maybe they... In industrial strength, CPAP machine. I can't even say that'd be for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How do you think about discipline? I'm interested in where you go for drive when motivation's low. Yeah, I think, because I don't usually think to my, I never have self -talk in my mind where I say like I need to be more disciplined right now because and it's maybe just because of what motivated me to get into it in the beginning like I just never like that was never my mantra of a word and with anything working out related I um I guess I almost feel like I'm on like sometimes I feel a little um hypocritical when I'll say a typically good motivation, like, okay, even if you feel like you're not going to get after it, like, you just got to know that you're going to regret it if you don't.

1:12:11Things along those lines, but for the most part, I kind of treat it as this is going to happen. Like there is no, like the idea of, okay, I need to take a break today or I need to take a rest day today. I'm getting better at it because it is objectively necessary at times. I'm getting better at taking a rest day. I think they're unnecessarily taken a lot, which makes me a little more tentative because it's like I know people are skipping just because they didn't want to do it. And it's the same thing as the logic of the guy who actually did an objectively correct thing. I'm a little fatigued. I can feel it.

1:12:48The muscle that I was going to hit today is even a little sore, and I didn't really get a lot of food or water today. a rest if I stay home and really refuel and get a good night's rest and do this work out tomorrow it will objectively be better for my long -term progress and someone could pretend they're using that logic and justify, I don't want to go today, the rest days are actually good, you know, the rest days are good and then they take two weeks off. That's the other extreme. I think of on the scale of no rest days ever, to two weeks at a time on the regular, this isn't a middle ground that's like right here, it's much more on this side of things.

1:13:31And it's, I think you're a different guy if you go even when you don't want to. Or when you subjectively have extra difficulties, because now you're the guy who did it, even when it was hard. And it's like, you know, nobody knows that you did it. Even when I was dieting for a few of the workouts towards the end, like I was super low energy. Like I'm like, I'm doing three sets of pull downs and I don't feel warm at all until like the fourth one. And I'm recording it. And for me, it's like there's different levels of actualized thought. Or like if you think something, you know, and you constantly think the same thing, you You can search it and grain it in your mind.

1:14:12But if you say something and you consistently say, like, oh man, I'm so tired, you're convincing yourself that it's true. You're making it true. And also, I'm not going to, like, I don't like guys when they complain in a prep because if I'm trying to watch someone else's video of like them working towards something, I don't want half the things they're saying to me like, I feel like shit man is sucks. I really don't even want to be here. Like that's, so I don't even like the idea of anything like that. But so for that work out where I'm dying like it was really hard like 400 milligrams of caffeine was not Getting into it's direct translation, but oh All right, that was a good one.

1:14:52Let's move on to the next one walk walk walk to the camera off

1:15:00But but it's like because I and it's not even like or a portrayal of that because I bring that as soon as that show is down I'm like, I brought that up. I'm like, guys, I was dying on a few of those lifts like hard. I don't wanna show it though, because I wanna, you know, you've got this mental version of what the world is when you think about it. And if you can think about it in a better way, it'll kind of bleed into like actual reality. Yeah, you've sort of faking it until you believe it. I would. Wait, look, the devil's in the details with this. When should I take a rest day versus, like, am I taking a day off because I might get injured today?

1:15:36I'm slept well, I really need it. Or am I selling myself short? Am I not allowing myself to say these things out loud or attach much worth to these thoughts because I'm denying what is actually true because this is better for me in the long run because it's a positive mindset. Am I being honest with the audience? If I don't put forward the weaker version of me that I don't want to be, or am I being more honest if I do put it forward? It's an infinite spiral of... I think that at least that last portion gets a little, well I think it'd be its own thing where it's a completely different perception that I'm portraying.

1:16:18I think it's different when you say something then, like in a situation like that, and then later like guys, remember when I was super high energy for that back day? That was not it. I think it kind of balanced out when you say that later, but that's something to think about for all of them, for sure. Well, how many times have people in an argument with a partner said something that they then later regret? Right. Exactly. In the moment, a heated moment of a diet or an argument, we obviously stuff that's random. Yeah, that's one thing getting back to, um, we were saying something a second ago about like different kind of thought processes and things.

1:16:50And one of probably one of my first, like what you kind of call a Eureka moment of like self -realization, I was like in high school. And I imagine Sam Suleik pissed, like beyond belief. And it's like, for whatever, not even anything serious. Like in the moment, this was the worst thing ever. In the shower, I'm like sitting there, just doing. And I was, I take a son of a go, do you be in this like upset is just so tiring. Like what am I doing? And I hadn't been into any kind of motivational speaker, thought control kind of, and I thought control, but thought kind of controlling your own thoughts, like what you think of things or anything like that.

1:17:35But that was the first time I had a certain kind of reflection of like, what am I even doing right now? This is not even necessary and this also sucks. And it's like a good little, just, all right, let's chill out here. Do you get angry? You seem pretty chill all the time. I'm a much more chill now I believe. Like I was never not chill. Like I was never like fighting anybody or anything. But I think over time I've become much more chill for sure. Is that cultivated practice or do you think that's just you? A little. A little cult. Like I was, there's this one YouTube channel that's called Grave Mind.

1:18:11Right? And it's kind of small. But it's a lot of, it's only just excerpts from like all sorts of like markets So really it's kind of like the stoke mind like all sorts of little books like that like I've never gotten into like where I sit and I read a whole thing or anything like some of those ideas are very Kind of Translatable to the training so it was half training because it's like the better of a you know kind of head and Direction of things controlling your training the better the training will be so it wasn't exactly it Like you know self -help thought process of trying to learn more about how you are There's a person answer.

1:18:48There's like, this is actually gonna make my training better. That was kind of the motivation. But it definitely extends into just all of life. But it's like, you know, there's things you can't control, there's things you can't control. To be upset about anything unnecessarily, you're stressing yourself out for no reason, and you're creating your own negative energy by looking at something in that light. So just a lot of, like I got into that for like a couple of, I almost seemed like a month I watch a lot of those videos and I took whatever I took from them and I think it was it put me on a better mental path and it's But like it's a little silly to say just for the regular person to hear because it's like all the cliches of like You know the grass isn't always green on the other side or like you know, just whichever ones and they're so just like random Like you just spit them out.

1:19:39You don't really take it in but if in like if you ever have a situation in life where you screw up or something bad happened or whatever. And then you think of one of those, because you're like, oh shit, that was actually true. That was literally me just now, where you're gonna come across a problem you didn't expect, and to kind of cower from it or just pretend it didn't actually happen. It's something where you kind of, and I think with the training for me, when I'm doing all these videos and like really, It's a lot of self -reflection practice because now instead of just a thought about how my training is going, I'm putting it out into like real words and really like, you know, because I don't, the whole point of all the things I post is the objective take on, you know, working out from Sam of the perspective of whatever that day was.

1:20:33So even if I said something that may have been in the moment objective, like I was saying, like, this is what I believe a year later, I could say something else. I reserve the right to change my mind. I'm a different guy. Yeah, I'm a different guy. I have done different things. I've seen different things. I've met different people to be the same guy over time is, you know, just suck. Well, that would be even less authentic. Yeah, there's a, I think one of the problems with anybody putting anything out on the internet, whether you're a content creator or a person that, your mom that posts on Facebook, because we have this concrete record of everything that everybody has ever said throughout all of time.

1:21:12What you end up with is the opportunity for people to call out what on the outside looks like hypocrisy, but from the inside is just updating your world view and learning and developing and growing. And confusing those two and the quickness of people to say, well, you didn't say that before, you didn't agree with 45 minutes of cardio. I thought it was 30. Sam, was it not 30 in the last prep? And the incentive there is for people to not say that they have changed their mind when they've changed their mind. And it also encourages people to never actually state their opinions. That's what I was about to say.

1:21:53If you know that you have had a few things where you look back and say, yeah, actually don't do, I don't drink a protein shake with 100 grams of sugar in it anymore. I did at the time and I'm like, was that something you used to do? It's like, well, post workout, you're very sensitive to an insulin response. Fucking will be if you put a hundred grams of sugar in yourself. A hundred grams is literally just straight sugar and like two scoops of protein. You're kidding me. Well, it's as dextrose. Right. The highest guy's seen me index sugar there is. And it's not like it didn't work. I bet you felt great after that.

1:22:22I, one of them came back up when I got back to the, when I got back to the apartment. And then I made another one to replace it. But that was like, I had just eaten a huge meal too. So I would not recommend them as much now, but also I can't say that it was completely foolish because it worked towards what my goals were. So it's just something like... This is like you can easily be built by hundreds of Grams, Sugar, Prodigy, and Cheg. Exactly, yeah. So it's like, you know, it's just part of the journey of things. And that's something bodybuilders, like that's another, like if you could say something, it's a little different about how I've talked about everything.

1:22:58is for them, it's always been this portrayal of, I'm only eating rice and chicken and broccoli, and that's all, and I never cheat, and I never eat anything else. When you record like a CD for bodybuilding, but really these guys are in all sorts of junk. Like Lee Priest is, he's unapologetic in the sense that he's gonna say everything how it is. This is a fat boy. And he's like, I mean McDonald's, I mean, I just need to get big, man. If you get fat in the off season, that's how it is. Then you can diet. So for me and now my statement, or what my current take is on like trying to leverage growth from increased calorie input is like, you know, bulk, but don't get too fat.

1:23:39Like because if you, they'll call it a perma bulk, where it's like dude, you have, you have gained 40 pounds and 30 pounds of that was not muscle. And that's where, well now you're kind of screwed because you gotta lose it. But there is a, there is a sweet spot where you will gain a little bit of body fat, You know, 10 pounds, whatever. And I think what throws people off is for one, maybe they wanna do it. They wanna eat for like a couple of months, get a little bigger and then die back down. I think it could be like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to die it. I know people don't like diets.

1:24:11They've never done it, but they hear what people say about it. I don't know if I could do it, maybe. I don't wanna do it. But it's also, man, I can't, I'm ice up there right now though. I can see my abs right now. I don't wanna lose that. And for me, I get a picture. and it's a three -month difference and it's insane. Because it's me, like eating a bunch of trash. Well, not even, actually, it's improved gradually. Like now, more food is like you're putting more, it's, I think about it, like putting more things through like a fine filter. And it's like the more additives and just like whatever.

1:24:45Like now, as though I'm picking off specific ones, what I've come never gonna eat red for it, because of the, but it's like just on a basic convention bias. I know this is a big bowl of oatmeal and ground beef and like a Selling natural barbecue sauce is gonna make me feel good But more so it won't make me feel bad. Yes, and I can eat more of those So it's just an objective take that that is better But in the time when I was eating like a full pint of like vanilla ice cream and a protein shake The logic was well. There's a ton of calories in this. I can eat it very quickly. I am gaining weight the goal that I am trying to achieve is being achieved, is it exactly the most optimal way?

1:25:26Well, sometimes you kind of have to, you gotta screw up, I know what I, I said a good way of saying this, but it's like you have to learn from your mistakes so that you can be better later. So it's not make mistakes on purpose, but when you do, like, and you realize they were wrong. I think they will be. Yeah, exactly. So the problem isn't making them, the problem would be not learning from them. A quick aside, if you've been feeling a bit sluggish, your testosterone levels might be the problem. They play a huge role in your energy, focus, and performance, but most people have no idea where there's our and what to do if something's off, which is why I partnered with function because I wanted a smarter, more comprehensive, and more convenient way to work out.

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1:26:42So you can get the exact same blood panels that I get and save $100 are going to the link in the description below. I'm heading to functionhealth .com slash modemistum. That's functionhealth .com slash modemistum. What do you think are the biggest mistakes that people make when it comes to diet when trying to build muscle? I, it's because it's very black and white, I feel, because you're either a real hardcore, like I'm gonna track everything, I got a scale, or I'm like pretty good at reading all the nutrition labels and I'll make sure I eat enough food, because it's really you're either eating enough or you're not.

1:27:22And for someone, like no one is gonna track their calories 25 % of the time. Like nobody's gonna be on their diet 50 % of the time. And even if they were, well then it's not gonna work. You're not gonna notice any substantial changes from it because dieting, the scrutiny, I consider close to the scrutiny of getting a medical degree. It's not getting a business degree or an accounting degree or something where you got a 2 .0 GPA, here you go. You did it. 70 average, you pass. If I only dieted 70 % of the time or 70 % as somehow 70 % of what was actually necessary, than if I went on stage, I'd look a fool.

1:28:13I'd be literally way too soft and in relations with the guys who actually did it, like, or even someone just trying to lose weight, you can be on it 70 % of the day. You could be on it 95 % of the day. And that's five. If you hold a damage in that 5%. Five minutes unfiltered in a pantry, you can completely, you can completely undo. That sounds like a Sam -Sulik sex tape. You can get five minutes unfilled at an append. But you can completely undo all your work. And that happens a lot. I was good today. I'm going to have a milkshake. Just ruined it. Just with the one thing. Well, the margins are very tight, right?

1:28:51Yeah, because you're either in a deficit and it's not necessarily on a day by day because sometimes you throw refeeds in or whatever, but you're either in a deficit consistently on average week by week or you're not. or you're in a surplus consistently average week by week or you're not. And even if you, and it's like honestly a week is probably a good chunk to describe because if I was in a good six days, I can undo that in a day. Yeah. What is it? So 300 calorie deficit for six days. 18, 1800 calories is a meal. It's a meal. That's one meal. Or it's like half of a crazy meal if you're like really nuts.

1:29:32and you're already in a dieted state. Like you're already subject to like suck up carbs. Like I've had, you know, cause rather than just reverse dieting very slowly, like I've had like a 10 ,000 calorie day one day and it wasn't like 10 ,000 calorie challenge. Like that was, I tracked everything just cause I wanted to know. I mean, that's just what happened cause I let the floodgates loose. 10 ,000, like a 4 ,000 calorie day. on a Sunday could throw off all your stuff Saturday, Friday. So it's something where they either, someone could either step it up enough where they actually make it happen or they're kinda just caught toiling or they just don't even wanna deal with it.

1:30:14And I know it's, I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm saying if you do track everything on the scale and you count it all and you like disperse your meals evenly throughout the day so that you are not like dying hungry because you just starved yourself all day. Well, then the likelihood that you'll actually get lean, if you did everything right, it's like 100%. Where are the biggest vectors of weakness in dieting for you? For it sounds like you and me have the same thing, which is nighttime snacking tends to be a big temptation, which means if you can just discriminate a little bit more calorie expenditure towards the end of the day, you can go to bed feeling not like you're gonna go do the pantry sex day.

1:30:55I have never blown my calorie deficit from breakfast. It is always later in the day. So what I do is I just wait till, sometimes I'll just wait until kind of this latest I feel like. And usually noon is a good, like when I, cause right now I'm going from eating a ton of food to now eating like basically a normal amount of food, which is just that change, even though I'm not in a serious deficit, is still enough to start to get me a little bit lighter and actually get some fat reserves burning. But nothing like really what you call locked in yet. Like fast forward a few months, well okay I've got 2500 for today and I need to make them count because I'm getting hungry.

1:31:37I'm gonna wait until maybe one, usually not beyond one and it's not because of the magic of intermittent fasting. But you can skip breakfast and you're not dying. You can wait a little bit and then I just want to time it where it's I'm hungry, but I'm not starving because if you wait until you're really starving Well, then now you're starving. You want to eat your time? You're the mercy there. Yeah, so there's like a threshold of hunger where if you let wait until you're too hungry It might make you more likely to overdo it There's a I had an Achilles repair after playing cricket which is the most British way to snag on Achilles And the advice from the surgeon was don't chase the pain when he was talking about using the pain killers That you always want to be out ahead of the pain a little bit And it's kind of the same like don't chase the hunger with this allow yourself to get I'm starting to feel a little bit and I'll just I'll nip that in the bud as opposed to being ravenous And that's how you go from needing a 500 calorie meal to a thousand calorie meal and you go That was two fifths of my entire day on 2500 gone in a single meal got the rest of the day is going to suck right so that's some that's something i always have to it's like a dichotomy of trying to get good at anything or trying to really progress at something because there is a perception that i have to be either rocky balboa and run do ten miles every morning and drink egg whites and or if i can't do that i'll do nothing like that's i yeah there's a good reference to guy was like people will have a slash tire approach to dieting where if one tire gets slashed like you had a bad day, I've had days right, I cheated.

1:33:22I didn't say it till later but I had a couple really big days of my diet but the idea that okay today was a little off, screw it, done. Like it's either perfect or nothing which is so crazy because it's like just what you'd call someone's hypothetical like perfection. Where they imagine like the perfect version of themselves and they set the bar there and like real life is nothing like that. But now to like if they think that this is the bar to be anything short makes them feel comfortable like it's just not for me. If I can't be perfect I don't want to be anything at all. But with working out like what I was about to really get into is It's a combination of, for one, you do have to be serious.

1:34:13With dieting, the whole point is literally, on average, you are hungrier than you are not hungry. And you don't get to eat a lot of stuff. It's difficult. It's something hard. You have to raise to the occasion, like, I can handle this. I will be tougher to be able to do it and really bring it and put a lot of effort into it. But at the same time, you want to give yourself a routine that makes it the easiest for you. So for me to say, like, you know, if you, if I really time out my diet well, it actually doesn't feel like I'm dieting that hard because I had very low calorie, high volume meals, and like an egg white omelet with a full pack of like a salad mix into it.

1:34:54It's not a rice. It just takes up. So it's um, but that only comes after that hardheadedness of saying, I'm going to do it. in the beginning. Because if your first instinct is to coddle yourself, well then that's not a position where you're ever gonna deal with it when it gets hard. So it shouldn't be grounded. Yeah, but you have to be able to, like that's where I like, I used to do basically three to four times the amount of volume in a workout that I do now. I used, my mind was five sets on five movements. So for one chest day, as 165 pound Sam, I was doing five sets of bench, five sets of incline bench, five sets of flies, five sets of dips, five sets of something else.

1:35:40And like it is a little fluffier volume, like I was incapable of the intensity that I can reach now from doing it for so long. But in my mind, more is better. I don't care that it's going to take a while and be long. Like that's just this is what I want to do. And this is how I'm going to do those response, increase, dose, increase, response. Nothing is going to change that. So it's this like hardheadedness where it was hard for me to even go from 25 sets down to 11 because that's I just cut it in half is then half the work more results. I think that's nuts, but you know it's something where you know even though you're reluctant still trying things like that and changing it up like that's sort of the whole point.

1:36:19Like you want to optimize this routine so that you can do it the most efficiently, but But you can look at that as though, oh, for me, an optimized routine is, I go to the gym once a week, sometimes I don't even go. Like that's just the routine that's optimized for me. And that's where it's more of a coddling than it is, like a brain. You either raise the bar or you lower yourself to the bar. What is some of the more, did you ever have a non -just macro tracking approach? Did you ever do any more wacky diets? Well, I would say like wacky, but when I started working out, I just made sure I hit my protein, that was all.

1:36:57Like main gaining your beginner. I was also still doing diving at the time. And as a beginner, just from eating your protein, like that's no one is eating 250 grams of protein a day, just because I don't think they're hungry. I don't think anybody flukes more than probably 120 to 150 grams. No one accidentally falls backward into 150 grams of protein. Never happened. It's like, you're, I mean, when I was a kid, I was like, oh, back from school, eat a whole bag of croutons. I'm like, that was good. Let's go do something. Like that was a meal. Or that was like a snack of whatever. And so, I protein was the thing I would track.

1:37:38And that was all. And like, anything else, I ate whatever. And that worked pretty well, because I coupled that with like really hard training. But yeah, nothing too wacky. For a while, I really got into drinking egg whites, like cracks into a cup. Okay. And my only gripe is the, or the only thing stopping me from still doing it is the fact that the egg protein raw is so bound up with itself that its bioavailability is like 50%. So if you're eating 50 grams of protein worth of egg whites, in a raw form, you're only breaking it down to 25. And I'm not going to eat double, then what I, I'm not going to counter that.

1:38:18Do you think people need to think more about that, about bioavailability when it comes to protein consumption, because you can hit your 250 if it was all through egg whites, to 125? Yeah, right. But usually with the proteins, like my rule is, the proteins that I would really count towards my number of, like this is the ones I want to get in the day, is kind of what I call direct animal proteins, like a dairy, maybe not a cheese, cause they're filtering things out, but like any kind of milk or yogurt or cottage cheese that's in there. That's all, that's every amino acid necessary, whatever. Or like any meats or eggs, like that's pretty much what counts.

1:38:56And then everything else, like the proteins that are in the two pieces of bread you made a sandwich with, Like sure they are proteins, but it's like, you know, taking amino acids. Like, you don't make a protein shake out of, you know, BCAAs. Because it's only specific ones, like you want that whole chain of everything. So I always just break it down to those. And things that you would conventionally call protein, like you're good, like beefs and chicken and anything like that. Like that's not something to worry about. It only be weird if you, you know, if you're a type to say, okay, I need all this to be plant -based, you know, legumes or soil or whatever.

1:39:30and that's something where difficult restrictions go on. That's something I'm not the guy to ask, because that's not what I do. There was a, the reason I asked about the wacky diet thing, mean my friends, I started training 20 years ago. So 37, I started training when I was 17. And bodybuilding .com, the MISK forums on there, that world before we kind of just understood it was Kiko meets if it fits your macros and then we need to kind of filter it through. Yeah, like sure to get to a bodybuilding look. Yeah, and then when you're thinking about lifestyle You just factor in what you've done, which is I don't want to feel like shit I should probably try and eat mostly whole foods mostly simple balanced blah blah blah like colorful plate and stuff So you ever did ever mess with like the we didn't know that 20 years ago We didn't know that son.

1:40:16This is new fucking unearthed evidence and some of the stuff we were adamant that Skip loading I tried to tell you about this yesterday. So skip loading was a a version of carb back loading where you went all week, carb free, and the goal was to hit at least a kilo of carbs on a Sunday. And this argument behind this was you wanted to avoid metabolism dropping off too much. So by spiking it really high on the Sunday, it would allow you to sort of keep the metabolism burning going, it doesn't allow your body into a faucet. Don't try and assess the fucking science, okay? I can't see him. I'm just thinking about it as like my bro science mind of like...

1:41:02Good, that's the hat you need. You need the bro science hat, not the real scientist hat. And then there was another argument that was... I think skip loading was also done as a part of bodybuilding prep. You might even do this where you do your full refeed and then wait to see how long it takes your weight to come back down to the pre -refeed weight. And that was, okay, that's how much sort of drop off I've got at the moment. That's how much I'm burning. And carb night, which was carb -backloading, but once per week, but only on an evening. Carb -backloading was this whole period that we went through.

1:41:34There was a time when Christian Tibido had blueberry extract in this Naljean bottle, but you needed to get, you were drinking this much of it and we were like, it's the blueberry extract. That's really what's going to cause the fat burning to work. And it was a wonderful time. We were, you said Indiana Jones. I felt like an explorer, you know, got the hat on, got the little assistant running around trying to find stuff and Turns up Most of it didn't work, but it was a It's an adventurous time. You the golden era has gone, dude. You just know that it's protein and calories Yeah, but it's it's a different look now though like what a but my whole thing with any kind of training is is I'm not so picky about someone's, like I'm gonna look at someone I think, what is Zach I doing?

1:42:23If he's doing something as agreediously strange. If you're doing something weird, I'm gonna say, or I'm gonna at least think it, I wouldn't just tell somebody that's like in real life if I saw him. But with the training, it's like, you know, guys you're doing now over here with, oh my god, the high trucks. High rocks, high rocks really. Yeah, I mean, it saves it all. He called it high trance. But but all sorts of different kind of training and there's like some of the Chinese weight lifters where they they're doing a freaking back to a Y -Sep this guy's back looks like a freaking Pro bodybuilder like a lot cuts and everything so what's is it is it that your training was better than this guy's training?

1:43:03Is it that and then it's oh well this guy is training only worked because of his genetics and it's like well And it still works for him. So I'm looking at it as though it's not exactly what you're doing But I can boil down the basics these guys worked hard. They do a lot. It's just the diets reasonable and Like they care about it. So they put energy into it. So it's like if you're doing a full body work at every day I like that's your thing and It's I think we come or we're about to come full circle Because there's I think it's There's been a progression since what we call the golden era of who is trustworthy and it's, you know, it requires some nuance to actually know the real answer because Arnold era, man, Arnold is huge.

1:43:51All these bodybuilders are huge. They work out. I'm going to do their workout. Fast forward, fast forward. Okay, now these bodybuilders are getting extra big. They must be getting extra smart. And then you know, Q, Rocky IV, steroids are involved. Q, the David later, Q, the natural era. Q, these guys work out and they're just like me. These guys know what they're doing. Fast forward a little bit. Okay, now that's, oh, these guys are lying. This is the fake natural era. I can't listen to these guys because they're not actually telling the truth about it. them. And then now we're in the like scientifically explainable era where it's not the gains that I have, it's the training and the explanations why I do the training that I do, which makes me superior because I can explain it very well and I have different studies to support it.

1:44:47But at what point can I give you like let's say I was working on my own energy drink or something like that. At what point can I tell you, hey man, I've got 10 studies that say this is the best thing ever, and then you drink it and it tastes like shit. Can any amount of studies and data and science make you think that that actually tastes good? So I think we're to the point where it will almost revert back to a point of your results will begin to speak for themselves under the context that you know what went into those results. That's interesting. What do you make of the world of evidence -based lifting science -based stuff at the moment?

1:45:30I think there's people who are gimmicky about it and make it a thing because they know it's like because an older person or an older guy who works out, he's going to stick to the basics that he know works for him, which is sweet, but it's going to be harder for him to accept new ideas. is so for a younger guy, it's kind of this like cloud mentality of like, all on the new wave train. But some of it's a little silly. I don't think all of it is. So I'm not, I would never, the point isn't exactly what they're doing. But a lot of the idea behind it and it's kind of its own subculture is, it's very, like, it's a weird elitism because it's not like it's Chris Bump said saying, like this is the, or, and, like, their whole thing is, this is right, you are wrong.

1:46:22And like, that sucks, that's not cool. And that's not even true. Because there's so many people that get so many different results doing so many different things. Like, the idea that they're following is, if I'm not perfect, then there's no point. And it's getting back to like, the conditioning of preschool, middle school, high school, college, you know, I wanna get a degree so I know I can get a job. I want to know it's going to work. And that's the demand of being able to explain it with studies because going into the gym at all is kind of uncomfortable for the non -beginner for any age where it's you've never worked out before.

1:47:00It's always like, oh, what are people going to watch me working out? I've never done it. I'm uncomfortable because I've never actually got an experience doing it. Like, do I need to get one of my buddies who works out to bring me to kind of coach me? Well, then they're going to know that he's Like, it's something where it does have an inflated kind of situation. You don't get nervous back going into a freaking Starbucks, but the gym is a little different because it has that physicality. So for them to just think like, okay, this is actually the solution because this is perfect and this will work.

1:47:36It's a snake oil of an idea instead of a product. Because the convincing point is that if you do it just like how we're saying to do it, we can guarantee that it will work for you. When really I think the best guys who work out and lift it, just, you know, what you call the best lifters would be the ones who actually, you know, get their hands on their own wheel and learn it for themselves. and then they get a deeper understanding. Because I could read a book about like, let's say for some reason I was raised in captivity. And I read a book that was like, how to act normal. As much as I could read it, it would never translate to actually being a regular guy.

1:48:25Because you have to do these things to learn that it's a different kind of experience. Because the working out isn't something you can just say on paper. He has to actually become experienced from doing it and then you'll be different in the future. So to say, and even just to say something so blatantly, at least what I would consider, at least ill advised of, this is the perfect way to do anything. That's not true, man. Like you're just saying that. How much do you think is uncertainty reduction? Yeah, exactly. A lot. And it's, I think in a way, it's a little bit bringing it down. Like I talked about either raising to the bar or kind of coddling yourself and making it seem like less of a thing.

1:49:13If you bring it and you get serious, you say, okay, the gym is full of guys who really get serious. I'm going to do it, I'm going. Or I'm going to do these things which people said is the perfect way to do it. And it's not, you don't have to go that hard or you don't have to do that much. things like that, I feel is a lowering of the difficulty, but it's argued as an improvement of the inficiency. But for me, I'm looking at that as though, like, do you hate working out? Like if you hate working out, then you want to routine where it's like one set a day. Like the ideal, well, I guess the ideal would be zero sets.

1:49:51like in their world, I wish there was a pill, like a real where it's you never have to work out again. And this is where my bias could come in because it's not an objective, like I'm just adding to a conversation, like I can't say anything completely objective. But from my perspective, like I like it in the gym. If a workout took, if I could do 20 sets and that was actually like pretty efficient and it worked, that's what I would do. But but it's not because that's like, I'm not chasing a maximum efficiency in a way. I'm half chasing like maximum enjoyment, because I like to be in the gym. Yeah, I think that's a good, well you've said yourself, you went from 25 sets, reduced that down because you were more efficient, that you some could say you're updating your world view, you have accumulated some evidence that has now changed and informed the way that you're going to show up in the gym.

1:50:40But I think there's definitely an argument to be made that we are not equations. And I guess the slide addition to what you've said there is the assumption there is a sign space approach to lifting or an evidence based approach to lifting causes a less enjoyable sort of routine. But some people may go in and say, like, just imagine for a second that the evidence space routine happened to be more fun. I don't know how or why or whatever. If for me it clicked is more fun, I'd have to do it. Yes, then you'd be like, oh wow, I've got both things. I've got both efficiency and I've got enjoyment coming through both.

1:51:21But yeah, if you're like, dude, I say it again, the era in which I sort of came up learning about lifting, we didn't, is it 531, is it 5x5, is it German volume training, Is it drop sets? Is it rest pause? Is it my or sets? Is it my or like you know there's so many and Ultimately when you look across What most people's points of failure are the normal left of the 99 % of people that are going to the gym Which is still only what like 3 % of the population are something? So it's a tiny amount of a tiny amount the point of failure is compliance and the The reason for the failure in compliance is typically motivation and enjoyment.

1:52:05So what you should be optimizing for, what this is what the science, the evidence -based left in community should do. They should make their workouts as fun as possible. So that would be a great study. What is, and this would be a fucking, actually a fucking phenomenal study, what constitutes an enjoyable workout? I would have to assume that variation across the year in terms of exercises would be one of those variation in terms of sets, reps, progressions. You know, you don't want to be doing drop sets all the time, but it's kind of fun to do that. You don't be doing pump stuff all the time, but that's also kind of fun.

1:52:36You don't have to be doing squats all of the time. I can switch those out. Maybe I'll do some walking lunges. Maybe I'll do suitcase lunges. I want just to back rack lunges. That'll give my shoulders a little bit of a rest. I don't need to warm up as much. Okay, so where can you maximize compliance through enjoyment as well as through efficiency for effectiveness on the other side. So there's an equation that you can reverse and journey it somehow. But so if I had to put a little more of like my current 2025, you know, September 1st take, it would be not so much that I'm against any particular style at all.

1:53:12It's more so, I'm not like it does not please me to see people be very unopened to discussion and like very just hard -headed with a take like that because I've changed my mind and like learn different things very drastically. Even the videos, my training looks incredibly different now than even a year and a half ago. And I think it'll look different in a year and a half from then. But one more thing about the studies though, I'm personally not the kind of person in a control group study. by any stretch of the imagination. So that's my own bias of, is a study from 180 pound guys who are starting to work out, who don't eat all the protein that I'm eating, who aren't doing all the cardio, who just have an up and having this whole lifestyle with everything that goes along with it.

1:54:05That is not me or any of these more kind of older school or hardcore bodybuilders or power invalid, but it's just not, you know, it's like you, you know, if you can, if you can, it's what's the best TV show. And it's things intended for children. Like, that's a say that that's so intended for like a 65 year old guy who's in a nature. Sure, it could be the best show for that intended target audience, but it probably wouldn't be the same for me. So then that could make me kind of backpedal and say, actually for the younger audience, the untrained audience to look at these studies, if they think, or if they would be the people who were in them, well then I guess I could see a little more.

1:54:53And I'm just trying to exert my will in the way of like thinking that what I do works and that it should be working for everyone. Advanced lift is by design are going to be less represented in these things. Yeah, exactly. But that's where like I don't want to do that. Like I'm not trying, and I always, usually if I say anything kind of statementy, I'll try to preface it, because I mean it to be, this is my take. Like it is not the videos are not meant to be like this objective thing. It's like how I think about any given thing and any given time. So it's like if you're watching a Sam video years in the future and it's a clip of me saying something, like look at the upload date and just take it into account.

1:55:35Correct at the time. All right, let's say that you only had 10 exercises for the rest of time to build the best body that you could. What are you going to choose? I've got a roster set up. So when it comes to legs, I think that the idea of a crazy heavy squats or leg press all the time as a quad builder, it just wouldn't be it for me because I've had periods of time where I basically did leg extension exclusively. Usually when I die it, my leg extension volume increases because I mean squeezing wise, activation wise. If you slapped electronic pulse indicators, maybe you could get a real readout of how much they're activating.

1:56:16But for me, if I had to pick a quad movement, I would just kill it on the leg extensions because you can really pump them up a little heavier. If I had to pick one, that would be it. Okay, then hamstrings would be I'd be a little torn, but I'd probably pick I'm very torn either seated or laying curl Mm -hmm, but either a hamstring curl I've got to pick one. I'm afraid time you can't I guess I'd have to pick the I'd have to make a laying I would have a little bit more stretch I would well, I just like not even because of that because you would actually in a seated position if you pull forward Would your hips not be more rounded over where your hamstrings tie in?

1:57:00So now they're actually more stretched. Like you feel your hamstring stretch when you bend your torso to touch your toes, not when you're laying down. So like the idea when people talk about there's more stretch on the laying curl, I don't even see it. Well that depends if you're set like this cause often this handles people press themselves up. Yeah, yeah, so that would be, you push this off. Yeah, so it's supposed to pull yourself in. So I guess it depends how you position yourself. So I guess, but right now I'm on a kick of laying curl. All right, so quad extension, lying hamstring curl. Mm -hmm.

1:57:32And then for back, I'd probably just have to do regular pull downs, but you can also cheat them into a row by leaning back extra far. All right, okay, yeah, that's acceptable. You can just go on the one machine. It's the same hand, it's the same setup. Okay, all right. But for me anyway, I need more lats because I want them to be wider. Like the thickness of my back is actually fine. Like I want them to extend out. Like that's what really gives that sort of look illusion. What do you think about when it comes to lap pull down hand position, cues, what are you thinking? You can change it up pretty drastically.

1:58:03Like if I do a lighter set, which is normally toward the end, I can pull my hands extra far out and it's a bit a little bit more like rather than pulling my shoulders up and down, which kind of gets like a lot of my lower lats, a kind of erector, like middle thickness, and it's rather, you know, having wider hands and rotating around my shoulders, that gets me a little more upper lats. But, or you could also make it super heavy and do a closer grip. And you get a little forearm and bicep just from the nature of it. Like that's more of a compound movement of a row. But then you can really load it too.

1:58:37Okay, so, quite extension, lying hamstring toe, lat pull down with a little bit of fuckery on the handle. What's for? Yeah, for a for chest, I think I would have to pick I'm a little torn, but honestly if I had to only pick one, no you can you've got 10 in total so you can You get a lot of muscle groups. You got at least cover your bases Okay, so I would say there's a time when I would say incline barbell If I was on incline barbell kick But it's a little trick in your shoulders because of it's very like Directly mounted like the only time I ever get my shoulders is usually incline barbell when I like it I like it, but I wouldn't do it all the time time.

1:59:17So that's where I would say dumbbell. But even then, dumbbells very limited because you can go really heavy and the individual loading and the fact that they can move out the entire way, you'd still squeeze at the top. You can rest a bench with a bar at the top because it's all just going through your bone structure. Not so much with dumbbells. So it's adjusting. Yeah, you're never going to relax on the top of a dumbbell. But what I think I'd have to pick now would actually be a seated cable press. So if you've ever seen seat here, cable here, cable here, you pull it in, you're kind of like this.

1:59:53Because that is pretty neutral. Yeah, so you're not allowed to use it. Not inclined, not decline, like kind of hands up a little bit. Because that's a much more versatile set. Because I can do it really heavy, like a conventional press, but I can also go lighter and be much more squeezed, emphasized. Because there's like the two bases I basically cover for every body part. If I do a heavy one, I'm going to counter it with a lighter squeezing and to do only one I think you'd be limiting your stimulus so that puts us away. That's for now. So there's definitely on incline dumbbell press which I think for every guy is always going to be up there for chest.

2:00:36It feels good on your shoulders. and to always one of the first movements that you do when you get into the gym, you feel like it's building the bit of the chest that you want, which is up here. But if you do a really light set, you just don't feel it the same as you do with your own cables. So I understand that tension, especially because you're being pulled that way, not that way, right? So you always have that kind of widening force, even at the top. Yeah, that's a good point. Alright, so that's four. So extension curl, pull down, cable press. Yeah. Is that on on a little incline 30 degrees?

2:01:12Just flatish. Okay. Basically flat. I'll flatload it. Alright. Because then you can also put your hands up a little and get more up or chest. Put it down a little and get more. Getting very cheeky. Okay. Number five. So a five and six for arms would be, well, for triceps first, I'd probably have to pick just a easy bar curl push down. So, not the V bar, like 90 degrees is too much. Straight is also a little too much on your wrists. So, a little camber, more like a 120, that's about right. Because I can also do that light and squeezing, or you can really get into and have some heft. What are you thinking about with cues for that?

2:01:50Are you more upright if you got a little bit of bend in the hips? Yeah, but decently upright. But if you stand too upright, well then now you're like turning in an ab exercise. because you're loading your arms downward and you have to keep yourself tense to stay there. So I'll hunch over it. Or if I'm doing hard, I'll pull my head to the side of the cable and kind of like wrench it a little like that. Not for all of them, but for some of them. And then dumbbells is just dumbbell curls. It's hard to beat. Seated standing, supinated. With a count of the different movements. Yes. Go to pick one. I guess I'd have to just pick standing.

2:02:27Standing, supinated. it? So more of a regular, a classic twist of neutral, you know, your hips into synchronizing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because just the, with some movements, being able to change the load, completely changes the style of the movement. Because I could do the 30s and really hold it and squeeze it. Or I could try to do like the 70s and have it be a much heavier kind of brunt sort of thing. So that's a, all right, we're getting close to six now. So you got four left. Yeah, so six now. I can chill on shoulders because I haven't done a real shoulder workout for like years at this point because they're just, they're already big.

2:03:06Like they don't, relative arms need to grow. So I would want to add a forearm curl cable. Okay. So you're holding the 1D handle. You know, cable up here, I'm loading it down this way. Like this is the force. Okay. And I'm just doing this. Okay. And it's not a huge movement. Yep. But it's like enough or you're actually kind of thicken this up and I used to do a ton of that and then my forums Got big enough and I never did it again At least right back on it because the arms of Koda no added a little more, but it's yeah, and honestly for Just I think it was a joke a huge ackman Or someone first alone Worked their forums like crazy because when you're acting you're not always shirtless But you're usually sleeveless and having big forums makes you like extra cool.

2:03:52Mm -hmm So I guess after that, I probably have to add a calf raise just because standing seated. As seated. Seated is a little bit better. Okay. Even though you're going to be hitting, I always get these the wrong way around. I see the soleus, whatever. For me, I feel it and my calves will grow from it. So I've got my own anecdotal evidence of it worked. Okay. Got two left. So the next one has to be the cardio bike. There's not many people would add, because they think it's anything you do cardio, because it's down to their mind. But that's, yeah, so seated and then the pedals are like where my feet are over here.

2:04:25Just kind of a little bit further back. It's a reclined position and it's the easiest one. Little backrest. My torso does not move. So I can pedal as much as I want and I'm just sitting and playing my phone for 30 minutes. You can do it and also make it easy. Have you got a preferred machine for that? Like to pre -call, make it particularly good? Just some of them, they have the handles. sometimes the handles are too close to where your knees are and you'll bump your knee on them. That's my only gripe, but I'm not picky. The one I have in my house is like, I mean, it's the equivalent of one that you'd get for free if you picked it up from like this out of the road.

2:05:00But it still works. And actually that one's harder on a, well, it reads harder because sometimes the math that they do to calculate calories burned, And it's not completely, because if someone, like me, peddled for 30 minutes at x -diviculty at x -speed, an Olympic cyclist, or like a marathon cyclist could do it at the same speed and the same difficulty, and he would actually burn less calories because he's more efficient. And I'm less efficient. So it's not necessarily always aimed for the same number. It's like, I know the feeling of like, this is hard, but it's not too hard. Like this is the right energy expenditure level.

2:05:39I did that. I know I've been getting into incline treadmill walking to get to zone two. Zone two for me is really hard to hit It's like way faster than a normal walk on the road and it's way slower than a jog And yeah, my incline preferred is like 3 .5 5 % 3 point of me 3 .2 at 15. Yeah is is nice But I don't know what the metrics are of the So what ever the machine is that was in the UK and it was 3 .215 and I was like this doesn't feel right okay I'll just keep going up for like four still doesn't feel right five the fuck is this number it got to 5 .3 I'm like about that speed is off. Yeah, I don't know because it wouldn't be kilometers over here because it would still be Mars per hour whatever it was yeah, but the exact same you go I can go to a new machine and after you've done You don't even need that many sessions, what?

2:06:3320, 30 sessions before you go, I kind of understand how I'm supposed to feel and where my heart rate is supposed to be at, like just by a sense of breathing. Okay, so you got one left, what's left? Yeah, one left. Why haven't we done? You haven't touched abs. You haven't touched glutes directly. You haven't touched shoulders directly. What else is missing? I think that's it. It's low back, I guess. In a body -bending sphere, you'd want your lower back developed enough where it's got like a little texture, but if it's too big, it'll take away from your waist. Because the whole point is this illusion of wider shoulders and a smaller waist.

2:07:11So now that they're already developed, I probably wouldn't, I don't hit my abs because they get worked, you know, kind of secondarily. From my even -dudent dumbbell curls, I'm keeping myself stable. Like, once they're there and you're actually still working out, they're not going anywhere. Because in and every time you look at yourself with a mirror you're gonna flex them. Like they get worked enough to be maintained. So that's why there's not a ab workouts. I did a lap before and now they're just not gonna go anywhere. Like same with shoulders.

2:07:40So I'd have to, I'm a little reluctant, but I can't think of anything else I would want to do. I'd pick the adductor machine. So that's where you're squeezing your legs together. Okay, why? I think your legs a little thicker in the middle because that's this whole kind of like system of like kind of it tie in it ties in kind of below your knee more hamstring But it's this sort of just piece right in the center where if your adductors were completely undeveloped And you just sit up straight with an East right. You have a really big gap And you think you wouldn't be able to fully get that with the extension The only extension is quad because that's a knee flexion and this is leg.

2:08:24Well, I don't even know what you call it. The joke is the... Well, there's two versions of a joke because they'll call that one the ball crusher. That's right. You're squeezing legs together. But the older like the joke that people would say before was that was either the good girl or a bad girl machine Once forzing it apart once for one thing together. Yeah, okay, I don't want to perpetuate that name But that was that's kind of a reference to those okay very good Sam so like ladies and gentlemen, Sam you're awesome man. I really love hanging with you this weekend. Yeah, it's a string farm What's next what can people expect over the next few months from you?

2:09:07Nothing a couple people ask me that's like, oh, right man. What are you working on? And I'm like like I got some renovations going on. I got to clear out my garage It's like I've got I've got my I've got a few lists I kind of couple of minute one because it's all like my thing, but I've got like social media list like getting I Say it's you could say it's more for the production value, but I just like Camera stuff. Mm -hmm. So I'm always trying new camera things just cuz it's but it's you know It does directly play into how the videos look like that's my little Figuity tinker thing to get into this iterating.

2:09:44Yeah, exactly, but in terms of the I mean There's not a lot of flash with real working out clear out the gr - there's not gonna be Sam 2 .0. It'll only be a gradual Evolution so it's like you know check back in two years and we'll have a lot of updates. Okay. I'm looking forward to it, man. Appreciate you. Sweet