Jocko Willink, Matt McCusker & Jeff Dye - Mostly Wise #3 - #1139

26:30Jocko Willink:You're looking for equal - Yeah, like then we go, no, first he said a sexist thing, but then he really won us over about the female dogs. Because the dogs can dunk, which is what's important. Right. I saw Air Bud was a girl dog, so she broke a lot of boundaries. yes they do 73 % male 26 % female go up a little bit because the patrol and apprehension okay they're in there for patrol I didn't see a patrol and apprehension at first what are they Belgian Malwa's for the most part in the SEAL teams it's Malwa's because they're smaller yeah smaller easier to like jump with did you ever see how high they can jump Belgian Malwa they can like like eight foot fast right over it's they're insane that's why i need one man my amazon i want to get malwa so bad the first time i ever saw one it was this training training event and we're taking down this big building and they're like hey we gotta have this dog out here and he's gonna you know we'll show you how it works and everything and i'm kind of like whatever how's this dog gonna whatever i just didn't really think much of it and all so they had a guy that was plenty in the dog suit that was gonna run away from the target building and so i'm outside i'm the you know ground force commander i'm watching they go hey you know here the guy's gonna run away so i'm watching the see the guy run away and i see the dog you know they're like they say whatever german words the dog and it thinks and just locked in i was like oh and then he says what gets this dog wanted blood yeah and he lets is a quick release that they have like a trigger on the on the leash pulls that thing and this thing bro it took off going a thousand miles an hour launched at this dude and just took him down like nothing and just started mangling this dog suit and i was like we want these things that's what we want yeah yeah it's so fucking odd they put the metal implants on the canons it's like those predator dogs from that movie i'm telling you meanwhile yours is in the fucking sidecar of your motorcycle with goggles on hey tell me where to get one of these i kind of want a dog that will bite these fuckers at the coffee shop always give me a hard time you know i want a little respect around them he's going with a mallet mar on a trigger on the sidecar god you don't want me to release this Jocko told me it's gonna fucking be bad news it's gonna lock in I don't know German but there's a guy I don't know if he has he's only made a couple videos but he owns a convenience store so he just he has some sort of trained dog that he like unleashes on people loitering outside of the store yeah that's great he only has two videos we need more of that he has to wait for his content two videos he's in jail that's what that means he's just like go the dogs don't bite they come up the guy's like Jesus Christ yeah People are scared of dogs.

29:09There's a big canine unit thing inside of the military, and then you guys have one for SEALs too?

29:15Jocko Willink:Yeah, so there's just dog handlers. The whole military, almost all ground troops have some access to some kind of military dogs, military working dogs, yeah. That's fucking cool. SEALs should get some water animals, dude. Figure that out. They have them. They do? Yeah. How does that work? Top secret. And I want names this time. All right, that's how you get podcasting clicks. You can say names. first and last name the exploit so i don't know the name of this particular dolphin but yeah yeah they have they have yeah they have they have mammals that work yeah they do yeah do you remember like a dolphin yeah like dolphins and others no China doesn't stand a chance against us i feel like we're really breaking new ground sharing this you might get in trouble yeah no they got water animals in the navy seals yeah that's sick what do they do you know they they perform various missions for you're fucking with me dude here no you're absolutely fine i'm not falling for it no i want to believe so best like a dolphin like a little turd on its head it's not a turret yeah it's a laser beam like uh i don't know how much this is uh available on on the internet you have to ask your people for the internet okay on the internet can we can we see military dolphins i feel so dumb if this is made up and i believe this shit i want to talk to the guy no i want to see if it's true jock is making sure that he's not going to get popped by the dod never mind don't need anything yeah don't risk it do you remember we were at dinner with palmer lucky and he was somebody asked him a question you know palmer he's the guy behind uh anduril he made the oculus which was that that vr thing anduril's a tagline war technology company is fight unfair that's the tagline it's so fucking hard and he has an answer for everything if you just want to ask him some shit about like hey how would this have a military application and we were at dinner do you remember someone asked him about has anyone tried to make sharks be useful and he's like oh absolutely because the uh immune system of a shark means that they can go forever so what you do is you get a bag of glucose stick it to the side of a shark put a fucking hypodermic syringe in it never needs to eat you use it as like a tracking animal and this thing can go for a thousand miles without having to have a fuel optimistic that's real optimistic you know because you go all right we got this shark we put a thing with the glucose in the shrimp and so far he's eating a thousand fish you know they don't need to eat yeah but my point is he's not gonna do what you want him to do how do you do them to go get these russians or so yeah how do you i wasn't in the technicalities okay i'm the ideas guy yeah because i just got the sharks He's swimming around out there.

31:54We spent$100 ,000 on this fucker, and now he's just... Look at all the glucose we wait for. Is anybody thought on how to give him the orders? We're supposed to be eating Koreans right now. True. He's out there swimming around trying to bang another shark with a glucose syringe on it. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's not... I don't know. I believe the dolphins. Dolphins are smart as hell. Did you ever get into the John Lilly? It's the military dolphin program. Dude, I'm going to smile thinking about this tonight. Seth. Just restart that from the very beginning. What does he say? I can't confirm or deny whether we have kamikaze dolphins.

32:25America's top military leaders were asked about killing dolphins. Can you kind of clarify these reports of kamikaze dolphins? The animation is so funny. The question sounds ridiculous, but the history behind it is real. Since the 1960s, the U.S. Navy has trained dolphins and civilians for military work. Not reportedly to blow things up, but to do things like find underwater mines, recover lost equipment, and help protect ships and harbors. The program is called the U.S. Navy Marine Management. Damn. And it still exists. And America was not the only country doing this. During the Cold War, the Soviet Navy built its own military dolphin program in the Black Sea.

33:01After the Soviet Union collapsed, and in 2000, the BBC reported that Ukraine transferred part of its military dolphin project to Iran. That's why this is made up now. The U.S. and Iran are ardor - Holy fuck. Dude, is there a dolphin battle right now? Muslim dolphins. ...and important oil routes on Earth. And now, even the weirdest pieces of military history are being pulled back into the conversation. So no, the Pentagon didn't confirm kamikaze dolphins, but it did confirm something else. The standoff with Iran has gotten strange enough that weaponized dolphins are now being discussed at a U.S.

33:32military briefing. That's wild. Also, you just think it's not going to go well, dude, because the dolphin's going to swim up to some fishing boat. You know, it's going to go, these guys got fishes up there. It's just not. You need control of these things. They're trainable. i've had one in mexico unreliable i've had a dolphin in mexico friendly as hell yeah that's my problem they're actually scary it's gonna come up to you and then you go what do you got ticking on your back there buddy you know dude no they're actually scary i thought dolphins were like you play in the ocean i would shit myself if one of these came up to me they're huge dolphins they're terrifying like big water dogs i was in the thing in mexico they get you get in like a little like it's like a little dock but under the waters you can stand they swim up and I was like, my kids were there and they were scared.

34:15I'm like, don't be scared, guys. We're all right. Really? Just touch it. You can touch it. They could tell. I was like, oh my God. You go first, little buddy. Don't be afraid. It's bait. Yeah, no, I think they're sweethearts. I rode them around in Mexico before I knew it was not appropriate. I posted all the photos and everyone was like, you monster. I was like, I'm just kidding. It was fake. You pet a dolphin too? It was fake pictures. Huh? You pet a dolphin too? No, I rode it around and shit. Yeah, like it was like a tourist trail. Yeah, like you could grab on its - Grab its fin. My girlfriend at the time was small enough that she could, I just don't have a girlfriend anymore.

34:45It's not like I have the same girlfriend. She's gotten bigger. Didn't it sound like that? Yeah, do the sperm whale tour. My girlfriend, back when she was small enough. No, but she would actually stand on that shit in there. She was able to do it because she was little. But I had to kind of lay down and let him pull me. You were like boogie boarding with a dolphin. Yeah, I didn't know that they hated there. Those dolphins, because they're meant, they use echoes, and they used to like miles of sea. so it don't matter what you put them in they're going to freak out and they're feeding them full of fish with little pills for ulcers and yeah it's not good but we didn't know any of that we had a fun time yeah it was a great day it was like 200 bucks same way I got there and I'm like oh man this is kind of sad in that little pond they're looking at me like help me I cheaped out you got yourself into this I cheaped out on the lord of the sea thing where you kind of like hold both it looked awesome Was this when you were sober at this time or no?

35:42No, this was a long time ago. Like 2008 or 2009. Okay. Yeah, drunken dolphin. We were drunk for sure. Yeah, there's no way you're doing that sober. There's no sobering word. Also, so many stories in my life are like, I went to a thing that was for kids. Yeah. And I'm the guy there that's like, yeah, I'll do this. And then everyone's like, why is he out here? You're like, want to run the bases at the Cardinals game? And it's just me and like a bunch of little kids. so there's so many of my stories of just drunk Jeff with a bunch of family things does sound bad when you say that a bunch of stories with drunk Jeff and a bunch of little kids well it's like yeah these families are going why is this guy with all the kids this guy sucks yeah I went to a water park way too late it was me and Shane went me and Shane went to a water park and it was like a small one too and we I came down the water we had like gym shorts too we didn't baton suits right come down you come down so you're instantly like vacuum sealed just your fucking tiny flashes of penis sticking out and there'd be a guy just waiting for his kid and there'd be me like he's just like my same age just be like what the fuck are you doing why are you doing this why should the kids have all the fart in here I don't I can't tell you how many times I've been to like a shoe store and I see like one of those light up LA gear shoes and I'm like you guys have this in a 12 and they're like no wheelies we have them in four size four wheelies would be so sick I yeah I've never had them any special ops any special ops applications with wheelies that would be sick i don't think so let's get on it dude a guy from the uk ran a marathon in wheelies really stop that's cheating though it was way harder it was infinitely harder like because only the only way that it's better is if it's mostly downhill right and he only wheelied for very small parts of it and like if you think about how you have to run you have to run right on the forefoot or else you've just it's basically an unstable fucking don't they retract i thought they retracted somehow i you know the technology of the wheelie better you can't even talk about that's classified what is everyone doing though like like that's a cool thing i just did a navy seals podcast yesterday sean johnson the security guy for joe rogan or whatever and he's a great guy good and he was like yeah i guess before us ran 500 miles uh or he ran on psilocybin on I go, what are we doing?

37:59Now it's not a... You hear about David Goggin, he's like, yeah, I ran a fucking fuckton. And he goes, yeah, but this guy run a fuckton on drugs. And he goes, oh, okay. Now this guy's running a fuckton with wheelies. What's everyone up to?

38:11Jocko Willink:Did you see... He's pushing the envelope, man. What is going on here? I didn't do it. He's having sex. He goes, holy shit, bring him in. I mean, dude, imagine. Because you know everyone's loved ones, you do a marathon, everyone's like family and friends are watching. Just, they're all, you're looking pretty. Yeah, you're just that one glide. It's cheating, though. Just kill me then. Just let me go out. It's a suicide. It's a peak moment. It's like a suicide. No one gives you water. They're like, actually, yeah. Nims Purger passed away. Yeah, terrible. That guy, he was the best death zone mountaineer on the planet.

38:43Yeah. And he had the Netflix documentary, did my show, did Rogan's show. And he passed away just doing some mountaineering stuff. like he was a uh not gurka what's the yeah he's gurka well he was but then he eventually went into yeah so he's like british special forces sas oh well uh and then i mean he did these ascents and descents without oxygen like the most gnarly shit like oh we're at the top of everest and some guy needs oxygen and we don't have any i'll just give him mine and i'll just go down normally uh and And yeah, he did it.

39:18Jocko Willink:Yeah, his whole party was knocked out. Yeah, but the guy could do that on psilocybin, you know? That might have actually been the thing that could have fixed it. Wait, maybe he could do that with wheelies. We could talk to him. Everest with wheelies is actually harder. The first guy to summit Everest without legs just happened. Oh, Jesus Christ. This is what I'm talking about. That's so impressive. What do you do? He doesn't have legs. Get the video up, Jared. Just have a regular life. But he's trying to. He's got no legs. I know. Also on Everest. You don't need to be up there. He needs to get up there.

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40:55Right now, you can get up to$350 off the Pod 5 by going to the link in the description below or heading to 8sleep.com slash modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's E-I-G-H-T sleep.com slash modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout. There's a documentary about the Nepal earthquake that happened and it was during Everest climbing season. And I think there's one and then there's maybe an aftershock in another one. And it is fucking insane because most of Everest is the kind of valley. It's not actually, it doesn't look that much like a mountain. It's just this sort of big valley thing in between a ton of other peaks.

41:29And you keep going up and there's base camp one, two, three, four, and then there's this special pass that's like a big fuck off ravine. And you realize even from going up to coming back down, shit changes all the time. Glacier's moving. if you like fart too loud shit moves up there and a big earthquake that flattened half of Kathmandu like that goes and there's videos of just the gnarliest fucking avalanche you've ever seen in your life yeah god's just looking at us going what are they doing stay down the hell I gave him no fucking legs yeah you can't breathe he's still climbing around up there god damn it like what are we doing there was a documentary on netflix about this guy look at him yeah man Man with no legs makes history by climbing Mount Everest using only his arms.

42:12Also, maybe in the headline, put his name. Don't call him man with no legs. Look at that. See, that's what you should be doing. Man with no legs. How did he get a cake up there? No store for cake. Former Russian paratrooper lost both of his legs in 2015 after military battle. Would they drone that cake in? Bolson. It is difficult. Is that AI cake? What's going on here? Dude, apparently so. That guy, John Krakauer, who had the whole in the thin air thing, he wrote that book being like nobody should do this it's so dangerous you can die and uh he said like you know years after it published the what are they get the guides called like your what are those who's called sure we're like dude we can't thank you enough man like thousands more thousands of people come like when he made the industry when he did it he was maybe 450 people climbed Everest like 10 years later after the book it was like 33 ,000 people so everyone started there like if that guy can fucking do it i can do it that's what he said people will meet him people will meet him and Beckham.

43:09You can fucking do it. Well, now all these guys with legs are going to be like, eh, this is easy. This piece of shit. I've got two legs. You need to lose one leg. But two legs and one arm and then I can do it and try and beat the record. I've got two legs and no cake. I'm going to be whipping up there.

43:23I don't know. I watched a documentary on Netflix where they were talking about this terrible avalanche that, you know, crushed a lot of people and it was a pretty heavy documentary. But they were talking about just working at the camp, setting up before the terrible thing happened in the story of, or in the documentary and they were like yeah we'd we'd have to wake up every morning to that time of season and go set off explosions they would cause little avalanches just so that the people could be living there and i'm like why is yeah you're you're already playing with fire if you live in an environment where men and women have to wake up at 6 a.m and go set off explosions to do like you're already you're already in the lion's den you're on the edge a little what are we doing If you go to do shit in the snow, which military subdivision gets sent to go and do that?

44:10Snow. Everybody trains for it.

44:11Jocko Willink:The Army and the Marine Corps and special operations, everyone trains to do snow work. Right. And the same for desert and the same for - Yeah. And there's some geographical kind of destinations that are a little bit more obvious for some units. If you're deploying over to Europe, you're probably going to do more snow work than if you're deploying to South America. So you kind of figure that out that way. it's pretty fucking cool what's your favorite element or least favorite element uh

44:39Jocko Willink:man i like kind of like them all they're all they're all a little bit different you know um but growing when i was growing up you know as a kid in new england and like i thought i was me fighting in you know the i thought i was gonna be fighting in vietnam but i ended up fighting in the in the desert and in the city environment so i guess i'm kind of like you went from humid jungle to open urban sand. Yeah, yeah, or city, you know, the city environment. But they all have their own little unique challenges, and it's always interesting, and you've got to get good at each particular one. And I always say I'd rather be cold than too cold or too hot.

45:16The woods. That's so Maine, right? The woods? Yeah, yeah. Bigfoot, you might be the guy. Oh, yes, right. You're a Bigfoot guy, huh? Well, I'm just saying, let's get you in the woods, back to where you know. Back to the roots. You said you like all the area in there. Let's get you to kill one of these fuckers. You're the guy. Could be. Could be. Why not, man? I don't know. Did you ever research igloos about how much they... Apparently, they're like... Snow can trap heat at an unbelievable level. Really? Oh, yeah. Dude, like... I've never once looked up igloos in my life. You've never been to a children's museum?

45:48Well, like I... When I was in kindergarten, it's like A, B, C, D, and then when it gets to I, there's a picture of a fucking igloo. That's all I know about it. Look into igloos.

45:55Jocko Willink:make that your next drunk go to a kids museum I've grown up a lot it's just Bigfoot and cigars I've grown up a lot what can igloos do? they just trap like an unbelievable amount of heat aren't they made of ice? they're not made of snow right? now you're fucking me up they're like blocks of snowish ice snowball snow what's that called? it's compactable snow snow ice sideboard Good. In your defense, you said you never looked it up. He did. That's true. I've never heard the fact that. I just read a placard at one kid's museum, and I was like, whoa, it's like 400 % of heat or something surprising.

46:36Well, if you fall in water in a snowy environment, you're supposed to take all your clothes off and then roll in snow, right? Yeah, so you'll die quicker. They go, let's just fucking end this. Just roll around in the snow. Is that true? Get back in the water and drown yourself. I'm so fucking - You definitely have to take your clothes off. You definitely have to get more of my clothes off. If you're wet, yeah, you want to get dry. I'm pretty sure that the snow is absorbent because it'll help to get some of the water off you. Roll around in the snow. I'd also, I'd be a snow leopard in the winter.

47:05If I took all my clothes off, you would not be able to see me at all. I'd be completely camouflaged. That's your secret. You wouldn't see me at all. I'm for real. My wife laughs because I actually did tan the summer, but I'll walk to the shower and it looks like I'm wearing shorts. That's cool. My ass is so white. It's crazy. It's pretty cool. It's pretty awesome, honestly. Now I've never thought about how well I'd land in to an Arctic environment. No clothes? I'm wearing clothes. It's actually kind of, I mean, yeah, I would show you guys, but it'd be weird. But my ass is hilarious. I picture it.

47:39It's hilarious, too. I mean, dude, yeah, thank you. Because I've been in the condo for the mothership, so I'm on the 20th floor, and it's just all windows. I don't want to fuss with all the things, so I've just kind of been walking around, like, you know. if I'm going to the shower I'm kind of like whatever but for you they would see it from a distance and go he's a fucking poltergeist also if you're that high up if you're like in you know if you're in like a hotel in New York if you're in a high window environment with a bunch of other windows if someone sees you naked that's kind of on them really yeah that's how I feel if you're certain if you're up high enough it's like I'm not one of my when I also think about it like I don't think that that I don't think anyone's gonna be that interested I think they'd go is that guy naked and they go that's not true Do you ever see a naked person through a window?

48:20Well, if they're having sex or doing something, then I would be excited. But just a guy in the kitchen eating a chewy granola bar? I would, no matter what, I would stare. I would stare for like 30 minutes. It's a fucking naked guy. It's just crazy. We did just watch some old guy just watch TV because we could see him. I guess we'd watch him watch a thing. It's an old naked man. I would sit there. He'd have to move. I wouldn't budge. I would just watch him. That's crazy. It's a novel. You never see a naked guy.

48:46Jocko Willink:You don't get arrested for that, you know, right? No, not if we're both 20 feet up in the air. What's the floor? 20 feet? What's the floor above which it's not weird? Because if it's ground floor, that's kind of weird. Ground floor is crazy. Yeah, but the first floor is probably also not great. Yeah, but I can only get to a window on the first floor, you know? Do you know what I'm saying? I've never been higher.

49:09So how am I supposed to do this? I would say double digits. Double did it, double digit floors is international. So if you've got a Belgian Malinois, it might be able to jump high enough to be able to see it itself. He can watch whatever he wants, dude. No dog laws. That's true. I remember one time when I lived in Philadelphia, I could hear my neighbors all the time, and I thought they were having sex. And I was like, oh, my God. I could hear them through the wall, and I was all excited. I'm getting all fucking hard. It was awesome. And then I just realized I was about to beat off. You were what?

49:40I was about to beat off. And then I realized they were just fighting, and I was like, ah, well, fuck. it's also kind of hot now I feel like it's a real bone killer I feel like it's creepy I could have mom and dad it reminds me of mom and dad you know I'm arguing yeah they could have made up actually that must happen all the time in New York because you're just so fucking on top of each other like at all times everybody yeah windows facing each other living like roaches and no one's got special tinted windows all these buildings are 100 years old yeah it's gotta happen all the time I would imagine although I'm looking for it I'm up there sometimes no tell I'm not only just me well that's what I'm saying sometimes the view of my room is just someone else's room like yeah so that's that's what i'm always thinking about like in my house i don't think about what i'm wearing but i've thought about it all fucking week yeah like people are looking in here does is it uh orlando airport that's got that huge hotel that's like right in the i swear it's orlando really it's one of this florida florida airport that's got it the main tsa checkpoint is just floor-to-ceiling rooms to take built hotels built into the terminal.

50:45New York has one of those. And I always think they're just straight up windows overlooking TSA. So there is the potential for somebody who's like, while they're getting frisked down to just lock up and you're just morning glory opening the curtains. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, that's good. That's pretty awesome. Sorry I want to spend my time. Just watching people get frisked all day. Yeah, if you're into it. It's a power move. I love security. I just have knives next to my penis. It's like, you wish you could do this right now, can you? How is sobriety going? I know that this has been a big pivot for you.

51:18How long has it been? Two years and nine months.

51:20Jocko Willink:Was there like a straw that broke the camel's back? Like some children's event that you went to you finally got kicked out of? Now stop saying children's.

51:31No, nothing that stands out. I mean, getting arrested and crashing my car and fighting some cops, that part. It was that. It was a big dramatic thing. It was a huge, it was a huge, embarrassing. How'd the fight go? Terrible for me. You don't train either, do you? Those boys can fight. Yeah. I was a little, you know, it was a little blurry for me, if I'm honest. So you were drunk, got in a fight, and that was it for you, you said. No more. Yeah, because, I mean, like, also, like, I had been thinking I should be giving up the bottle for a long time. Like, it's in your mind. You're going, eh, maybe.

52:02Because drinking's great. And drinking's fun until you get sad or until you, you know, until something bad happens. or till so drinking has a lot of positive experiences but it was it was time to time to wrap it up but it's been great and i in my act i always joke about all the negatives of sobriety but the truth is like it's fantastic and i'm very happy i did it unreal yeah that's great thanks and what took its place um well i do work out way more now which is even if it's like a crappy workout i'm just kind of proud of myself for going like and then that gives me like a little rush like we did it today we're in here you know we're we're doing that and then i do a smoke a shit ton of cigars and um yeah so those are the main things what did you do drugs too when you were drinking yeah i was doing a lot of pills with the drinking you know because then i could stay awake all my friends would do like you know cocaine or whatever and then like i would be passing out from the alcohol is this funny you're a comedian i know i love it what's the coolest guy knows just laughing at me this bitch dude he couldn't even it's a great follow-up question too yeah so it was like adderall and stuff yeah because um i would like pass out from drinking like at my house because i got a bunch of people over but i would hear them having fun downstairs and i'm like dude i'm missing out on the party yeah so then yeah you just start popping pills and doing whatever to try to keep uh keep drinking i've never done adderall what's it feel like oh like cocaine it's the same shit right it is yeah i can't act like it's not i can't have it i it doesn't help me study i tried it in college i was in a library I started just chatting with everybody.

53:32And then I took it while drinking. I got kicked out of a Beastie Boys concert. And then I snuck back.

53:39Jocko Willink:What did you do to get kicked out of a Beastie Boys concert? That's impressive. Well, it was actually. So for some reason, whenever I take Adderall, and I've only ever taken a handful of times while drinking, I get it in my head that I have way more capabilities than I do. So I was sitting there, and I'm like, I'm just like, I was on this level. I remember my friends had ground floor tickets. I had tickets of like this, like, you know, not a balcony, but it was like I was here and the floor was here but it was like a eight foot or whatever six or seven foot drop and then I could climb back up and get on the floor and I was like if I look here all the security guards if I time it where all their backs are turned jump and jump up I'll disappear into the crowd no problem no problem limitless dude literally I jumped down finally and I went to jump into the crowd hoping like to dissolve into this the crowd is completely parked around me I get tackled by two security guards they knocked one of my shoes off so i'm walking out with one shoe i go out and i'm like man fuck this is bullshit and i like just kick my other shoe off and i saw like this they had the chain link fence where people smoke i just kind of found a gap in that went in went back in and then i they saw my friend who actually backed in that he used to look like me so they were this is really shitty of me but they were kicking him out mistaken identity that kind of was like that sucks i kept going to a guy goes saw the fact that i had no shoes on and was like it's actually him fucking so then he goes back i get kicked out again and then they were doing an aramark working like a shift worker thing so when the people were changing shifts for the aramark employees i got in line with the aramark employees again still in my socks walked in and then i walked under the bleachers i was near like dressing rooms and stuff walked under the bleachers crawled up and i found a gap between the bleachers and there's just people like it went seats and my face just like came out and i just watched the concert next to them and then i walked all the way back from south philly to west philly so adderall adderall yeah not good for me yeah not a good i can't do it sounds great it was pretty awesome why everyone isn't doing it adderall's great when you have ocd too because you just like organize a sock drawer you never looked at in your life yeah i don't i give myself the worst missions possible and i just i do them though i get them done but they're not they're not like a new hour of material in adderall it's all useless the next day i'm like none of this is funny He was so enthusiastic about it.

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56:57Jocko Willink:Did you get through the full like alcohol withdrawals and everything? Yeah, actually, it's kind of funny. I thought that I had COVID. I'm like, oh shit, just my luck, man. I get arrested and then I get out and now I got COVID. And then my doctor, he's like, nah, dude, this is alcohol withdrawal. And I was like, oh shit, that's a real thing, huh? And he goes, yeah. and so yeah it was uh it was it was a rough week but yeah that's like the one thing you can't quit cold turkey yeah yeah or you can but you you can kill you can die oh really yeah down the rabbit hole that and xanax really yeah you can die from xanax withdrawal too well actually i will admit i've never said this before but so when i got out of jail i did start drinking again i was like having beers and making light of it and then we're not making light of it but how long were you in jail for uh a couple days waiting for a judge basically but the um when i got out i was like okay no one found out you know because i thought to myself while i was in jail without my phone like either everyone's talking about it or no one cares and no one knows and and they just think that i'm not answering my texts so when i got out i realized no one noticed but then uh like so then i started drinking again i went back to my softball team told some of my close friends about it but then like once it got public like once everyone started dragging me on the internet and making fun of me, then I was like, all right, I guess I need to do some work.

58:14I need to figure out if this is it. So the humiliation of everyone knowing about what happened is what made me take it serious. You know what?

58:22Jocko Willink:I wrote a book called Extreme Ownership, which is about taking ownership of what's going on. It seemed like another move could have just been like, own it. Like, hell yeah, dude. It was a good night. I know, yeah. It is extreme ownership. You're a comedian, right? Right. You should be like, hey, yeah, I go hard. Yeah. Who's with me? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but also - Anybody drink at night? But my commitment to truth made me go, this is a problem. Yeah, because normally I will just own any of my thoughts or opinions. I don't really care what people think about those kind of things. But I knew deep down, like, this is a problem.

58:52You're using this as a fucking... The social pressure was the big kicker as well. Yeah. Interesting. I came off a 50 cent per day moped in Bali 10 years ago. And brakes go out from underneath me as I'm trying to avoid some truck. land on the Balinese tarmac. All of this side of my arm is gone. All the outside of my foot is gone. Like just the left-hand side of my body had no skin left on it. But nothing broken. And my first sensation, I mean, the middle of the road, there's still Balinese people that fucking idiot tourists again. Here we go, like classic stuff. My first sensation wasn't like fear for my life.

59:26Am I okay? Health concern. It was like, I look like such a prick. It was embarrassment. My main concern of mortal fear was embarrassment. That was it. Yeah. Damn. That's true. Like, I always say, like, with things like that, you'll probably notice it the next day more, like when you're thinking. You're going, oh, this kind of hurts. Because in that moment, you're just going, I got to figure this out. Adrenaline kicks in, and you're kind of embarrassed.

59:50Jocko Willink:Yeah, trying to walk cool. Trying to walk away from the scene cool. Went to a beach club. Continued on to a beach club with these two Aussie guys that were traveling. So I was like, I don't want to look like I'm not too cool. One of them was like, I'm medical trained. I'm sure it'll be fine. Go to a beach club. He's got, like, alcohol swabs doing that. like have you ever had alcohol like a proper open like good bit of it hurts so bad i thought that i knew what the ceiling of pain like communication was that my nerves could could give to me and it just blew straight fucking through i could hear it i was like i can hear the fuck i started laughing it was so painful i was like this is absurd how fucking painful it is that someone just took the dial and like cranked it up to 100 yeah i had a uh ear infection when i was younger and i remember i feel like they used to dump like hydrogen peroxide yeah they used to do that and it bubbles yeah so i saw the bottle and rubbing alcohol was the same shape bottle and i was like i think this is the shit that my mom pours in my hair and i dumped rubbing alcohol into an ear infection i cried it hurt so bad it was probably to my knees it hurt i heard kidney stones are the worst though but kidney stones i've seen guys go down piss kidney stones what are they like you get some kind of buildup in your kidneys and it has to come out.

1:01:00Jocko Willink:It's like pissing a rock out. It's like a rock. Oh, it happens to a lot of people too, by the way. It's like birthing a fucking little infection. It's worse than childbirth. Trust me. No. Trust me. No, trust me. I know. Well, it's interesting you say that because we got, I didn't know whether or not I was going to do this. We also have Hunter Biden on the podcast on Monday, which is going to be fucking hilarious. So it's either today, we're going to do it today. I'm going to offer it to Hunter Biden. We have period cramp simulators here. This is some sort of feminist propaganda, isn't it? This is because of your WNBA thing.

1:01:31Yeah, true. It can stay over there. How would we even know? It's like some electronic thing, but we gave it to one of the - Have you done it? No, we gave it to one of the guys. I'm going to have to do it before Monday if I'm going to get Hunter Biden to do it. Yeah, yeah. We gave it to one of the guys and he said, I'm going to test it on my arm. And he had his wedding ring on. His wedding ring immediately started heating up and he wasn't able to close his hand for a couple of hours. Nick couldn't feel his fucking arm. Wait, you ingest it or you inject it? No, it's like a, it's one of those kind of like an ab machine type thing.

1:02:01Got it, got it. And it's supposed to simulate. You immediately start watching sex in the city. Yeah. You immediately order stuff off of Amazon.

1:02:11Jocko Willink:My first kid, my wife was pregnant with our first kid. And I went to the class where you're going to go through like the birthing stuff. And so I'm in there and, you know, I'm being Mr. Supportive Dude, whatever. and you know where the woman's teaching this breathing and stuff and telling me what to do and like and she's like you're gonna be in a lot of pain and I and I said you know what what's the pain from and you know just kind of you know I'd gone through like combat trauma and all that kind of what's the pain from and the woman's like you'll never know and I go no no I'm not saying I'll know but like just what's causing the pain she's like you don't understand what it's like I'm like okay yeah it's okay it's all good I'll just sit here and be quiet yeah that's you told also I would pay any money to see you in like one of those classes there was only one and I was like hey I'm not welcome there by that woman I have access to empathy can you please explain silence briefly there is a short window that this special operator is actually able to feel feelings I'm desperately trying to understand what the love of my life is going to go through okay I tried emotions once and it didn't go well it was going to be both in class you're on your own woman Dude, they're shitty.

1:03:17When you're like the guy in the hospital, they're like really shitty towards you. I remember we were like, I was with my wife and we had like hours and hours and hours. And I was like kind of point, man. I would run home, do stuff for like the dogs, come back. And June later. Yeah. And we had like, we had plenty of time and I was like, and they were scheduling a C-section. I was like, all right, well, what time are you doing this? Because I have to let the dogs out. But I was just like, do I have hours or should I stay here? And they were like, literally, she goes, what do you have somewhere else to be?

1:03:40And I was like, is this going to happen right away? Like, what's the move here? And then she was just a piece. I felt like a piece of shit for even asking like, hey, just I got to do all this other shit too. Like, you know, it was my responsibility to still, we couldn't get someone to watch the dogs. So I was like, fuck the dogs if we're doing it right now. But if we do have three or four hours, I can jump over. Let the dogs starve. Yeah. Like, what the fuck? And the lady, you would have thought I had been like, all right, we'll hurry the fuck up. I was like, just curious. I wasn't in a rush. I was like trying to help.

1:04:08They're shitty towards you. That sucks. I think the reason for that is it's obvious the price that chicks pay when they go through labor. And any guy that isn't completely attuned to that just is seen as callous or flippant or not caring. Like, you know, you're desperately trying to understand. Hey, please explain to me where this is coming from. Hey, we also have these fur babies at home. And it would be really nice if we made sure that they didn't starve over the next day. We had been there for a day and a half. So it wasn't like we had just gotten there. We had been there. We're doing all this stuff.

1:04:40She was guessing where it was. We'd be like, yeah, lots of places. It's been a day and a half. Yeah, I was like, I just want to know. If I can, I can. I'm asking you. Completely, you would have thought it was insane. And the worst part, too, is for the C-section, they dress you in scrubs. So they took her back. You look like you work there. Well, they took her back, and they were just like, here, put this shit on. And I'm fucking like, okay. I'm crying. I'm trying to put on my - And I'm just in the hallway, dressed up like a nurse, just like, where do I go? get back there I'm like alright fucking sorry guys you never feel like more of a boob than when your wife you know has a kid it's true you're like shit someone should do something about it

1:05:18Jocko Willink:you gotta sleep on a shitty couch the whole time yeah and there's really nothing you add nothing to the equation literally nothing surplus requirements oh god you're just nothing like everything you say is wrong it's just it's just just stand there you know I wanna know what your bachelor party looked like what does Jocko's bachelor party look like I don't think I, I didn't even have one. No bachelor party? Yeah. I mean, my wife and I got married in the San Diego courthouse, you know, like on a Thursday afternoon. I was wearing a t-shirt and a pair of surf shorts and flip flops and went down and got married.

1:05:51Jocko Willink:It was a minimum viable wedding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shit, who was your best man? I didn't have a best man there. Just like my platoon chief came down and was like, do you have to bring a witness? So I was like, hey chief. And he's like, yep. So I just went down there and got it done. Sorry. Sorry. Referring to your wedding Just went down there and got it done. In and out. Wrecking tongue. Clear. You know what's really crazy? We've been married for like almost 30 years. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It was like - Unreal. And she's British. We need to do this big ceremony. Yeah. Yeah. Who needs flowers? Yeah.

1:06:23Me and my wife actually did it during COVID. Same thing. We got a packet of papers from City Hall. Pennsylvania is like a Quaker state, technically. So we did it. It's called a Quaker ceremony where you just get the packets from the City Hall, bring it home you sign it you have to give it like 48 hours and then like your neighbor can come witness and sign and then you're good to go yeah would you give it 48 hours for like to let it cool yeah let it cool out yeah it doesn't just you know sober up it's not vegas you know what i mean

1:06:48Jocko Willink:we did do a we went to england and did we i don't know what i don't know if there's an official thing but they called it a blessing where we did like a a marriage thing in england where we pretended like we were getting married even though we were already married yeah and everyone knew that we're dressed up and yeah we dressed up and all that stuff it's like the ceremonial way yeah like a ceremonial way in exactly we did the ceremony even though my wife was pregnant at the time you know which was same thing yeah we did that we had a party afterwards and she was pregnant for it tier one ceremonial wedding yeah yeah you want to your one we're both tier one that's how you do it you go handle it and then we did we did the dog and pony show for the civilians there you go let's say it was the same exact thing she was she was pretty pregnant for the wedding yeah yeah my wife was like kind of pregnant for the wedding you could tell i could tell you You can tell in the pictures, you're kind of like, oh, good to go.

1:07:34Oh. Make it happen. Oh. There we go. Yeah. Has dating changed since you've stopped drinking? Yeah, it sucks now. Yeah. Why? Because drinking was a whole part of it.

1:07:45Jocko Willink:Was that? Was it the women got uglier for you? Yeah, who's this? What's her name? Yeah, that is way harder. Because drinking is the easiest thing. You want to get drinks? You want to go? It's just the way. And now, like. you don't go to a coffee shop and both get nervous in front of each other exactly that's what it feels like like i literally uh i've been hanging out with this this woman who i really like and she's like i literally texted her because it was just not going well in the text you know she's she's a girl i know from comedy and and i was like hey i think you're really attractive and you're nice to me like would you like to go out like i just had to eventually like just be direct saying the thing yeah because i couldn't just be like we're getting drinks after comedy and then we would have like flirted there and then that would have went whatever way it would have went it's like love on the spectrum right away i'd like to see you it feels exactly like that yeah and then we watch anime and drink down and do for dinner you're saying sober dating is like love on the spectrum it is okay hard it's not going well what do you think would happen if the love on the spectrum was done with booze then would that just turn normal what do you mean like if you're saying you got them drunk yeah i think they can drink can't they they can they can oh yeah and they can order drinks that would be yes you know if it's not spicy enough already we can just like throw it over the booth just turns into love island get his ad roll dealer through yeah yeah spike in the drinks they go we didn't even know it's gonna yeah it would devolve i think yeah i think that's like that's like a very heartwarming pure show i don't like it i talk trash about it all the time why oh multiple reasons it's you know what's the number one complaint well they don't pay them first of all two everyone's watching it like we're watching children dating they go isn't it cute it's very condescending to look at grown-ups and be like oh they're dating like we do and like i i wish for the best it's very oh my my biggest problem with it is it's called love on the spectrum but they don't respect the spectrum they'll pick some guy who's super high functioning and pair him with some girl who's super not high functioning and be like maybe this is a match and then they're on the date and he's like i think you're great i think you're wonderful and i think you're awesome and i think you're pretty what about me and then she's like oh handsome you're like that's not a That's perfect.

1:09:49That's perfect. No, it's not perfect. But my point is, I don't like it. I think everything they're doing is too exploitive. I don't think it's good. I was so ready to push back. I thought it was going to be a really judgmental take from you, and it's really convincing. Yeah, and also - It's actually kind of convincing. It's so - We're seducing them with celebrity now. Now they think they're famous. The one famous couple already broke up. She's on everything now. It's too much. Yeah, that's fair. Although it's so sweet, though. You're seeing them. they're with their parents and like they're like this never would have happened i don't know i watch it he's doing the exact same thing you just said that's what i'm saying but it's so put yourself on report bro dude they're living the dream dude they're already fine leave them alone they don't need a wife and kids they're so frustrated what uh here's another a part of it that that is is like they have a diagnosis right that that they don't like bright lights and loud noises that the the high pressure situations make them buzz.

1:10:46And then we're like, how about, uh, how about we put a 10 camera shoot on Netflix? How about we keep interrupting them every five minutes on a fucking first date? You're like, leave them alone. If you want them to date, that's fine. But maybe don't exploit them on a television show. You know, not paying them. It's crazy. I didn't have no money. James has that. James, you know, James, right? Uh, which one is the guy who goes, sword guy, Renaissance fair. I like that guy. He's got liquid. He's got liquid. I've seen every episode and I'm rooting for them as humans. I'm saying that when you watch the show, it feels a little icky, but what about...

1:11:13You gotta push past that. He's doing great. He's got liquid death sponsorship.

1:11:22That is the most human answer I've ever heard. What a great moment. He's got a liquid death sponsorship. You gotta push back past that. Listen, he's got swords.

1:11:30Jocko Willink:Liquid death sponsorship. He's got a liquid death sponsorship. I tried started watching an episode and I kind of... I didn't... You articulated what I kind of felt when I was watching. I was like, this is just... I didn't feel good about myself watching. And I watch like five minutes. I'm like, okay, this is enough of this. If you've ever saw a 40-year-old date another 45-year-old or whatever, and you go, isn't it cute? It's like, don't talk to them like that. They're not retarded. These are grown-ups with autism. Treat them like adults. I'll be honest. You would never go up to someone's table and go, are you two having a good time?

1:12:01I really support this. You're like, get the hell out of here. It's mean. They're adults. Treat them like adults. I watch it, and I laugh the entire time. Yeah. And then I cry. They get me every time. I like their directness, but that's just autism. That has nothing to do with dating. I was going to say, it's so funny. I also think that's what's going on inside of every single person dating. It just doesn't come out the same way. Yeah. Same thing. The people in Love on the Spectrum don't have the filter that everybody else puts up. Yeah, and I like that point, but I like that about autism. I don't need them to be on a dating show to appreciate that about it.

1:12:31What would be great would be a Love on the Spectrum, Love Island crossover episode. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. like 50-50 to just throw a couple of grenades

1:12:41Jocko Willink:would this be on Epstein's island or what this sounds really creepy he wants to watch him try to figure it out it's like traitor or whatever and it's like trying to work out which but you don't know love on the spectrum love island on the spectrum and you're trying to work out to be fair once you got people who are that hot you throw some autism in there it's not you know mentally you're in like thin air in thin air. I gotta push past it. Liquid death sponsorship's just waiting on the other side. Just hot chicks being like, you're like really funny. Yeah. You know a lot about weapons.

1:13:21Never knew that about medieval times. Well, I just think also, I mean, it's just, I think that we've got this idea of like rom-coms and then that's what a relationship is, which I don't believe in. And so like to push that on autistic people on the show, because they're looking for some sort of like notebook like thing. I just I just feels like very fraudulent. Yeah. Tell me if this sounds familiar. You train regularly, you eat reasonably well, you feel fine, but you're just kind of going off vibes. Most people have absolutely no idea what's going on inside their body. And that is why I partnered with Function.

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1:14:27And right now you can get $25 off, bringing it down to$340. Get the exact same blood panels that I use and save$25 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom. That's functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom. How do you view relationships? Are you no romance or like, how do you think about romanticism basically? I don't even know how to answer that. I don't know. Like everyone else. I'd like to find a partner. I think it's good. I think it's healthy. You're both married with kids. What advice have you got for Jeff on how to find a good woman?

1:14:58How old are you? 43. Should have probably figured it out by now.

1:15:03Jocko Willink:Well, behind the power curve, as they say. One of those late bloomers. Where do you find, you know, where are you dating? Where do you find your girls? Apparently you found one from the comedy scene. Yeah, I mean. Any center weird autistic messages already you were saying? I like the way he summarizes my life. Like where Jeff gets arrested for going to kids things. It's so direct. There's no fat on it when he talks about my life. What, you met a girl in comedy? You sent her autistic text messages? Is that where you're getting them, Jeff? Military precision. You've abused your power in comedy? Yeah, exactly.

1:15:44Would you find some weakling that you could have picked from the pack? So, you know, I usually just meet women on Instagram from, like, after comedy shows and things. That is a thing, apparently, though. What? the girls after the shows yeah or that you meet them at the like after because now you know that they're interested in you because they saw kind of what you're about up there they listen to you talk for 70 minutes and they go you know they're interested um and then you can kind of figure it out from there and usually the comics go somewhere after the clubs and all that stuff it's not a i wouldn't recommend it it hasn't worked out for me as far as anything i've had some some i also think you don't get things you don't believe in and i've been somewhat skeptical of relationships and romance in general so um so maybe how does the skepticism of romance and relationship show up um what do you mean like i don't know what that means like if you think that they're a psyop like that jocko's not actually married or that matt's like no no no no i think it's fantastic i think that if you um love someone enough you got to kind of like compromise a lot of stuff that's what being a man is you kind of compromise things you say hey i can't go have fun and be drunk guy and i can't be going doing this and if i'm going to be on the road i need to kind of think about how long i'm going to be on the road whereas i'm making all the decisions for my career so i can have more money and more friend time and things like that i've made a lot of selfish decisions that wouldn't it's like why i don't have a dog i love dogs i can't think of anything i like more but if i was to have a dog right now i'd be a very selfish dog owner just letting him be at my house while i'm gone forever and so the same thing is just kind of true with relationships i would love I love to be with a partner who's awesome, who I love, and I really believe in it.

1:17:21You want a crater. It's just that right now, well, it's just right now, it's like I don't know how I'd be a good boyfriend. And I'll figure it out, and I'll make sacrifices, but I haven't found anybody worth making that sacrifice for. That's all. I'm sure someone will come around, and I'll be like, holy shit, okay, I'll take this weekend off, let's go to Mexico. I mean, I've done it before. You meet someone you like. Dolphin ride. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good to know. Yeah. The chick that we rode dolphins, and I got an ectopic pregnancy with. Yeah. Do you get lonely when you're just sitting there?

1:17:49Yeah. We're all lonely. I'm super lonely. I don't think that has to do with single guy. I think we're all lonely. I've got a theory that single guys after 7 p.m. in the house go completely fucking insane. Absolutely. Well, you nailed it. There is nothing that single guys in the house can do between the hours of like 7 p.m. and 11 p.m. That's great. That isn't fucking weird. Joe Sanagato was telling me one of his friends got out of a relationship and started sending him headstand videos. Are you doing headstands? Yeah, got into it. It's on YouTube. It's like needy time for bed. Like, what are you doing?

1:18:23Like, doing stuff. Why are you upside down? It's really funny. Guys after 7 p.m. kind of go a bit insane. No, I think you're right. I think it's a hilarious sentence, but I think it might be something to it. If you're not working and you're not going out partying and doing stuff, like, oh, well, I'm not going to start doing, like, emails at this time. I sadly absolutely need a woman to structure my life. Otherwise, it's just I'm toast. I can't do it. She's got so angry at this. I've talked about this on the show before and women got really angry. I think what they thought it sounded like was guys are unable to have hobbies and like move themselves forward in life on an evening time if they don't have a woman with them.

1:19:00I think it's completely different to that. I think it's, we are domesticated and civilized by women and if left to our own devices, do insane stuff. Sure. Like that's not, like this is how you get obsessed with like crypto or like Warhammer 40K and stuff in like ways where you... You start painting miniatures and collecting wrestling toys. Which is cool when you have room for it in your life. But it's not the sort of thing that you're supposed to do until two in the morning because it's like kind of taken over you. It's like you need a woman to go like, hey, hey, it's bedtime. I still need to be put to bed.

1:19:33Seriously. Yes. I need someone to be like, bedtime. And I'm like, fine. Thank God. I'll stay up by myself. That's what I do every night. I knew I had to be up for a car service at like six, or it was six LA time, eight o 'clock here and uh i just watched youtube i watched the first episode of hard knocks and i was like man fuck it i'll just stay awake i was like it's kid mentality of like we can stay up as late as we want yeah no one can tell me otherwise it's like i need someone to tell me otherwise yeah but i don't i'm fine i feel good as a made my car service as a man who's famously up at 4 30 a.m a lot do you need someone to tell you go to bed no i mean i'm tired at the

1:20:08Jocko Willink:end of the day go to bed yeah yeah not that big of a deal i guess um don't say fucking yeah you don't go to bed early i'm saying i do what i want he's saying he does what he wants if i want to go to sleep i will go to sleep and if i don't i'll fucking stay up that's why i don't need a gal to go hey honey no offense i need that no i need that man yeah i just don't uh i would you know civilizing force have you ever had any conflict with the british missus around the fucking no because you're a large it's london time pretty much you're a lot you're a large man i imagine that you rolling out of bed?

1:20:43Jocko Willink:No, she sleeps pretty heavily, you know? And so I just get up and go about my business. Could you imagine how much harder your marriage would have been with you up at 4.30 a.m. every single day if your wife was a light sleeper? Oh, yeah, that would be a bummer. Wait, what, you're getting up earlier than here? I don't understand the question. No, just getting up early while my wife is still sleeping. Jocko famously wakes up at that watch. Oh, it's a new one. No, it's the same. Well, it's the same model. I got about, they reproduced them now. So nice. Because of you? I don't know. Probably. Well, apparently.

1:21:18You must have, how many photos have you watched do you think you posted? Thousands?

1:21:21Jocko Willink:Yeah, yeah, probably. Thousands of photos. And it's always like 4, 15 a.m., 4, fucking 29 a.m. I just picture his wife is as crazy as him. She's up beforehand. She's kind of a beast, to be honest with you, yeah. What I've noticed is you have to be up, typically, if you're living with a woman, you should be up before her. Because if they wake up, I've been in a situation where a girl has a job and I don't. Yes. When they wake up for work and you're in bed. Resent you. Whew. The huffs and puffs. Yeah. Yeah. They're real loud slamming shit. Oh, there's vacuuming that needs to get up. Oh, yeah. If you're asleep and they're awake.

1:21:54Is there something subliminal going on there? Yeah. They're like, what the fuck? Get up. Why am I up? This guy's protecting me? And you're just like, oh, this is the one I chose? You have a pillow between your knees. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Oh, I remember. I'm like fake sleep I'm awake but I'm like I'm not moving just laying the one I picked wearing a Razor Ramon tank top not they're not a fan you gotta get up before them yeah yeah they're putting on like dress clothes and you're just like farting naked yeah yeah hair's crazy yeah they're not they are not fans of that I think that's what it is about being single that I like is that it's like just you can do anything you want and that's a very selfish thing to say that like I can just fly to wherever I want or perform.

1:22:40I could say yes to any gig or thing like that. And I think that like a man with a partner doesn't do that. He goes, no, we got this. We need to plan ahead. If I'm going to do a thing, I can't just leave my family for five weeks. Same thing with the dog. Same thing. Yeah, it's a little bit selfish, but it's a lot easier. Or not a lot easier, but it's a different type of good. The grass is greener. Yeah. What's the weirdest date you've been on since you've been sober?

1:23:06I haven't done any dates really. smashing grabs

1:23:14his words not mine I actually hope you have no female viewers not anymore yeah they're gonna go this guy sucks no dates well I mean I guess they are dates they're just not very formal it's not like we're going to like a thing just eating pussy right no no I mean I guess oh I'll tell you one here's one we went to a movie and dinner that's a date right how was it um god it was not good you ever had a woman come out to you know you can't go go back to your house and change you know you can't like she came out of her house and i got jesus i'm gonna be walking around with this what was the outfit she it was ridiculous it was it was it was like uh we were going to a swingers party or something i'm going now i have to walk because i dress pretty you know cowboy guy you know i was going on she was scantily clad you're saying very very revealing clothes silky like little like one piece dress is a problem for you no it's not a problem necessarily if i already loved her or something but it's a first date we're like we're judging each other you know it's kind of a first date so i'm going i don't need this you know but anyway she gets in my truck and we go and um the part that made me think of it is we were watching a movie called backrooms now the i won't spoil it for anybody hasn't seen backrooms it's still in theaters whatever but the idea is that like you're trying to put together what's happening as the movie's going so I'm in I'm all in I'm like this movie rules and she keeps talking she's like hey this is this guy is I think he's in this other movie and I'm like yeah he's in a lot of movies you know and she just keeps talking and I don't want her talking during the movie it's like I was with my niece or something and I was just kind of like trying to give her the signals you know that I don't like it after like an hour into the movie I'm liking the movie the movie rules I'm excited I'm trying to figure out where it's going also all my friends saw like the night before so I'm excited to be able to talk about the thing and then she goes this movie sucks let's leave and I was like, God damn it.

1:24:58And so we left. Never got to see the other half of back rooms. And people were like, how was it? And I go, I don't know. I saw the beginning and I don't know. But I left because I'm a good guy. Did you pump? Did you? Yeah, we didn't. Really? I dropped her off. I think it broke her mind. Because women aren't used to offering up themselves in a vulnerable sexual way. They've never had rejection. Men are pretty good at it. We get rejected. We go, yeah, that's what it's like to be a guy. Yeah, you're right, actually. She's, I don't think this, a very beautiful woman. And I don't, she was like, what?

1:25:27Like, she goes, you don't want to come in? I was like, no, thanks. It was nice. And tonight was great. And then she, I lied. Tonight was great. And then she's like, well, I can come back to you. And I was like, nah, I got to get up early, which is not true either. Better go watch this movie tomorrow. Turning around and going back to back rooms. Well, I think it broke her brain. Like, what do you mean? Yeah. Like, it doesn't go well. For even, like, whatever the woman looks like, 100 % of the time when they offer up sex, like, there's takers, you know? Yeah. So that kind of rattled her, I think.

1:25:54but also it's like I'm not we talked about this last time like not being hot to trot like if you're not ready if you get the big call yeah and you're not ready whether it's committed relationship or not it's like a there's some fallout

1:26:05Jocko Willink:what do you think she'd say if we heard her side of the story same thing I think she'd say the same thing would she be like yeah so he comes out gets out of the truck like I'm dressed up nice and he comes up looking like a total no she was he didn't try and he's got this stupid autistic movie he's like he's like all into this lame movie no no we get back he thinks he's gonna get me and I'm just like, oh, you can come in if you want. Please say no, please say no, please say no. Thank God he said. You want to know what every girl has said about me that's dating me? Because I don't think that girl would say that.

1:26:34This is what 100 % of every woman that's ever been around me says. That guy won't shut the fuck up. That's all it is. My whole jabbering, yammering existence, I talk a lot. So if someone's with me for longer than a month, they're like, this guy needs to just talk. You need to just put backrooms on repeat to get him to shut up. Yeah, that's my biggest flaw. I can't be quiet. I'm a talker. Well, what's your plan with the, is it just never going to happen again? Because you got the pussy on ice right now. What does that mean? You put her on ice. That's what you, your move, what you did. I will never talk to that chick again.

1:27:05That's why I don't mind telling that story. Oh, okay. Yeah. I'm saying you got it. I'm not interested. You have it on ice right now. Yeah, but I could, I could tell after hour one, I was like, this is going nowhere. That's why, why sleep? Good for you.

1:27:15Jocko Willink:Especially if you're not drinking anymore, because otherwise it might be a little different. Yeah, I know. When I was drinking, like, there was a lot of casual sex. I don't do that now. Oh, really? I don't want to do that. So you're just... Yeah. That's nice. Yeah, I think it's better. It keeps me more level. Yeah. You start hooking up, and then that's like just inviting these kind of social entanglements into your life. Because once you sleep with a girl, she's like, oh, I know that guy. You know, like now they're telling stories. So now it's not cat. Now it's not cat. Yeah, I don't want to do that.

1:27:39So how do you... What's your threshold for entering sexual... I think if I liked the chick, I would... Then I would, yeah. It's casual. No, but I mean... I mean, if I'm like... I like her and I'm like, I think I want to date this chick. It's just not, you're not doing it for the sake of doing it. What's the threshold? If she's just into me upright. If I like her. If she wants to. Is this particularly bad in LA? I imagine seeing the parties, people talking, gossiping. I think LA and New York are unique in the fashion that everyone is so single for so long. It's more socially acceptable to be single.

1:28:14Yeah. And so then that creates all these extra problems. Also, dating is so complicated already while it's ever changing. So now dating apps and social media and climbing and do you follow them or do they follow you back? And it's just become, it was already somewhat complex. And now you have like, we've normalized girls talking to a million guys at once and being like, well, I'm not sleeping with them. I'm just kidding. There's just too many things where it's ever changing that it's not fun. And so I think most guys, I'll speak for my friends and I, I think they just feel like defeated. like not even defeated just like fatigued like we don't want to deal with this shit so i just don't join in the reindeer games and then when a girl catches my eye that i'm interested in then i will pursue her and i'll ask her out and i'll make those sacrifices which i've done recently there's a girl i kind of like so yeah it's been good unreal i wait are you married no okay no we talked about this before the uh like last chopper out of saigon like at what point did it feel safe to do like dating and then it doesn't and you're just like found a chick fucking 30 years ago everything worked out great and i didn't need to ever think about it again it must be so nice to have just like shelved that part so now i get to focus on everything else including building the

1:29:28Jocko Willink:family and having the dog and doing the business yeah no this is definitely making me feel like i made a good decision no you know it's funny sounds like a horror show well so sometimes like these guys will see me doing like fun things or like i'll have like a wild night or something like that or at the golf tournament they're like you were with like a babe last night or whatever and they're like married guys and i and i think that in that moment they're going man this seems pretty good i go yeah last night my life is way better than yours yeah so there's little moments where i do get to win and you guys have like this whatever but trust me if you found someone you love you're winning that's that's it you the grass is greener over there i i'm lonely on christmas I'm on airplanes alone.

1:30:09I'm on stage alone. I'm on green rooms alone. I'm alone a lot. I live alone. I think that there's flashes of like, this is way more exciting. I'm on a jet ski. We look at her, blah, blah, blah. But I think that we're all trying to find love, except these autistic kids. And you're doing headstands. Some people are reportedly spending up to$13 ,000 in an effort to reset their body count to zero. A clinic in Brazil is offering hymen reconstruction surgery with reports claiming many of its patients are women over 30 who want a fresh start before entering a serious relationship or marriage. Jocko, you've got a very different kind of body count.

1:30:46Would you consider hymen surgery to reset yours?

1:30:50Jocko Willink:Well, I'm a man. He doesn't have a hymen. You have a gymen. But you do have a very different kind of body count to the ones that the girls are going to go and do, right? And neither one of them can reset it. There's nothing in the world that can reset either of those. That's true. That's true. But that's the thing. that's chicks going to Brazil. What a scam. Oh, look. That's a new chapter. That ought to delete Justin's contact card out of your phone. There you go. That's it. I mean, 13 grand. Look at that virgin. There she is. She got some flower water poured on her head. And now that means she didn't bang Ricky.

1:31:35like what a dumb thing this is such a scam yeah that's pretty tough they're like they do you ever see the cacao ceremonies people do they like drink hot chocolate and they're like whoa i'm tripping there's a real thing it's called cacao ceremonies they like drink a lot of hot chocolate and they're like oh my god my pineal gland's opening up and they like how high is your body count that you're flying if you're there you eat enough cacao Like how many dudes did you bang that you needed to go to Aruba or whatever to get someone to pour water on your head? Like it just kind of suggests that you're a whore just doing this thing.

1:32:11Like, sorry, I got to do a trip. I'm going to, you know, I got to reset my body count. Like that's crazy. Yeah. You don't send the car to the mechanic. I need to be exercised. I'm going to Brazil to be exercised. It's insane to me. I think it's a little, but the cacao thing, I've seen them in like Kuya, that hot and cold place that's here. They do these cacao things. I do look at it and sometimes think that's just like a Horlicks or like a Nesquik. Well, it's probably nice to drink a hot chocolate. Yeah, it's nice to drink and chat with your buddies. What's this? Cacao ceremony? It's just very funny.

1:32:46Does that not look nice? It's very nice. I want Choco to just break in there and bite him in the face. Do you watch this and just go, what are we doing?

1:32:54Jocko Willink:I kind of like drink protein, chocolate protein all the time. I'm talking about the tans. And it makes me kind of feel like this right here. The beads on their head. That looks nice. It does look nice, I'll be honest. This looks dumb as hell. Here's the problem. It's like, that'd be a tough combo the entire time. What would? The hot chocolate? Just hot chocolate talk with adults. Look at them. Chocolate talk. This doesn't make you mad? No, it makes me laugh. It's riling me up. It's kissing me off, actually. It makes me laugh. Look at them. I bet they're all in there. Oh, you know. This is a subsidy.

1:33:24We don't have kids. Who needs kids? Fight the patriarch. Look at them. is that not like you though is that not just the female version of you but with hot chocolate no that's not me bro it's ridiculous i like the hot chocolate don't get me wrong that's not what i'm judging they were talking about them in a tent sitting cross-legged and going like hey is it next up is a slam poetry about race like what are we doing yeah it's a thing man that's a cow it's like that's like the super light psychedelic people go for they go like i'll do a cacao ceremony if you don't want to do yeah i feel like i would do that i wouldn't do the psychedelic,

1:33:57Jocko Willink:but I'd do the cacao ceremony. I might do one this afternoon. It would be nice. Yeah, sure. We should have done it. We should have started off with like ceremonial grade cacao and seen who got fucking, actually Hunter Biden on Monday. Yeah. No, let's get the period cramps. Hunter's got his threshold for anything. He's going to be like whatever. Period cramps while you have some hot cocoa. He's got to throw in some hot cocoa. I've got to try and win the female audience back somehow. You know what I mean? That's my bad. God damn it. Yeah, man. What, uh, are you still on, are you weeding still? Are you still smoking?

1:34:25Or is, Because you did for a while, right? Yeah, I did for a really long time. It naturally kind of just fell off, honestly. So it wasn't a get arrested, cause a catastrophe? No, no, no. I got a question for Matt. Yeah. You still drinking raw milk straight from the - Absolutely. Yeah, dude. Absolutely. Are you against raw milk? Not at all. I thought it was awesome. When you told me about it, I was like, I got to try this. It rules. The problem is - You're against weed. My commitment to finding this fucking milk was not as committed as yours. It's hard to get. Go to a farmer's market. You go to a farmer's market.

1:34:53I've never been to a farmer's market in my life. That's crazy. Those places piss me off too. I go in and I go, what is all this dog shit? Go to the store. No. You need the raw milk. She's lab grown. You're eating lab grown meat. What the hell? You eat the lab grown meat in California? I don't want to, but it's pretty easy to get. I'll be there, yeah. What's the sales case for raw milk? If I drink regular pasteurized milk, I get congested. I fart. I'm like lactose intolerant. If I drink raw milk, no problem. You strike me as a raw milk guy.

1:35:22Jocko Willink:Yeah, we get some raw milk on. It's awesome. the only thing that sucks about it it goes bad really quick you gotta get really small bottles so you get a bottle just drink it within an hour it's going bad honey you have six days to chug the gallon six days is alright that's not bad for a gallon kill a gallon in six days but yeah the weed I slowed down but it's always there I tap it when I need to it doesn't agree with me at all I hate weed it really doesn't agree with me It just doesn't work for me, one. And then two, I feel like it's a dreamer's nightmare. You know, like all these guys I know are chasing their dreams and then they smoke weed and they just don't do anything.

1:36:03They just sit around. They were already kind of sitting around and now they're just all sitting around more. I know so many people that smoke weed and do all kinds of stuff. That's good. The world is kind of split into a few groups of people. This is kind of an interesting thing I learned from a dude called Edward Slingeland. He wrote a book about alcohol. And one of the reasons alcohol got spread so wide civilizationally is that it's very reliable how it affects people. Like you drunk is pretty similar to the sensation of me drunk is pretty similar. Even if your behavior is a bit different, the sensation is kind of the same.

1:36:32But one person that smokes weed gets horny. One person gets sleepy. One person gets creative. One person gets forgetful and lazy. And it's like the fact that it's so buried means that it's kind of a bit of a shitty drug to do together because everyone's going off in fucking different side quests. Or hard to understand why I would not like it and he would like it. He's like, why don't you like it? and I'm going, it's terrible when I do it. You don't want to be around me when you - I freak out still a lot, but it's kind of, once you like, figure it out. Ride that wave down. I will say, I think mushrooms are way better than we are.

1:37:02I love mushrooms. Mushrooms rule. I would say mushrooms are - Big mushrooms. Yeah. You should do mushrooms and run a marathon after this. We should all - That's it. 500 miles. That would be awesome.

1:37:11Jocko Willink:Go. Rock and roll. Get some cacao and some oil thing. Yeah. Let's do it. And then we reset our fucking time. That's weird though. The alcohol thing, like I know people that when they drink, they're crying in the corner about, I know someone else is going to fight everybody. Someone else is laughing. Someone else gets super social. That seems a little bit strange to me to hear that. Yeah, that was his argument. I think the sensation is at least the same for most people. Maybe their behavior changes. But you are right. I mean, I ran nightclubs for a decade and a half. I saw a million people on the front door of nightclubs.

1:37:43And you see every different version of inner child demon come back out. We had this pick. This is kind of interesting for anyone that still works in nightlife or in hospitality. If a girl walks into a venue, a late night venue, usually after 10 or 11 p.m., wearing a jacket of some kind, maybe a denim jacket or a leather jacket, one of those like suit jacket things, and she doesn't have her arms in the sleeves, 70 to 80 % chance she's going to get thrown out within the next hour. Like they were always, every single time that they went in, they were the ones that would like swill someone, throw a drink on someone.

1:38:18It's kind of like the cutoff leather jacket, like sort of smoking kid in high school. It was just every single time it became a meme. And we didn't even know why. We just kind of started to select this thing. And we'd be like, dude, jacket. Something about sleeves. Those Hells Angels never have sleeves. Sure enough. Fucking 45 minutes later, she's thrown a drink over someone. That bitch over there, she slept, she, that fucking slide. Before you know it, the doorstep, you know, like an unwieldy cat, like picked her up like this. Yeah, as a bouncer, you have to fold women's arms across their chest.

1:38:49No, just crack them with the elbow. Just got to strike first, dude. Slap them with the period cramp simulator in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Disables them. That's easy. Uppercut. Yeah, well, the bell curve for alcohol probably is. There's probably is. There's outliers, but there probably is way more of just people. It's a good way to put it. Yeah, I think that's true. We in a crowd of people who are all high is like 50 % of people are dipping off stuff. It's not really a good crowd thing. I'd like to know who runs PR for marijuana because when I say I don't want to do drugs anymore people are like oh he must have a problem or I don't want to drink the guy who cares the second I push back against marijuana everyone's like dude what are you talking about you just got to try a different strand and like well what happened and how many times have you tried I'm like good I just don't want to fucking do it dude it's not good and then everyone just keeps pushing it on me it is resilient alcohol is the same though everyone who drinks is like come on man have a drink well they want to drink with you they want your company Yeah.

1:39:43It's the only drug where if you don't do it, people assume you have a problem. Yeah. Hey, dude, why are you not shooting up crack tonight? What's wrong with you? Come on, just do a little. Yeah, it's a Tuesday. Just do a little heroin, you idiot. I've heard that people who start shooting heroin, there is a big thing where they're trying to get other people to start shooting heroin too, because then they get to be the guy who gets you heroin. Yeah. They're like a middleman, so they can do free heroin. But they're bad salesmen because they're all hunched over, and you're like, I can't trust this guy.

1:40:10I used to work with this guy and he had just, he would just be sweating all, he was shooting heroin all the time. You could be like me. Sweating all the time. And he'd be like, dude, honestly, if you shot one bag, you'd be partying. And I'm like, dude, it was, he was living in this like pretty fucked up thing. And his like girlfriend was there just on a mattress when you walk in and he'd just be like, he was like kind of tricking her out too. And it was just kind of like, I think I'm all right. I think I'm going to steer clear of joining your man of the people. Have you ever heard Hunter Biden talk about crack?

1:40:36Yeah. I saw that. I sent you the clip earlier on today. What is that? It is just the best ad read for crack I've ever heard in my entire life. He makes crack sound fucking awesome. There's a comic named Jimmy who is one of my favorite people in Cleveland. He's the best. And he said he did crack one time because he did all the drugs. And then one night he's just on one. So he's like, I'll try it. Bought it from like a homeless guy. And he said it felt so good that he started to walk to his bank account. Like I'm going to take all of my money and just get as much of this. The first time he ever did it.

1:41:08but he passed out on the way to like the ATM and just slept like on the street. Like again, he goes, but I'm just telling you the sensation that I felt was the greatest thing I've, I've ever felt in my life. And that's how addicted it is.

1:41:21Jocko Willink:One of my neighbor's nephews told me he was a meth head and ended up going to jail and did seven years in jail. And when he got out, he was just talking to me about, and he said, he tried meth for the first time. He goes, as soon as I tried it, it was the only thing I ever wanted to do for the rest of my life. It's crazy. And he burned like every bridge in his neighborhood and his whole family and then the next city. And he ended up going all over America until he eventually got busted in Texas. That's crazy. Yeah. Down and wild. Heard is pretty powerful. Weird keyhole in the back of some people's brains or systems or whatever.

1:41:50And just the right drug just like fucking explosion. Like the rest of your life just falls apart. Yeah. That's how opiates are for some people. I remember I tried like Percocets and stuff and it was like. That's like a painkiller. Yeah, I was like, not really for me. I was like, I don't understand these things. I know people who tried them, that was it. They were just like, this is it, yeah. This 7-OH stuff is 7-hydroxytragenine something. I watched Hamilton Morris, the dude that used to do the Vice documentaries about drugs. He did this breakdown of what was going on with it. It's being used to get people off opiates, but they're also sold in gummy bears at gas stations.

1:42:29It's Kratom-based, yeah. It's like pressed Kratom. It's like Kratom's Kratom. you know like trank is fentanyl's fentanyl uh it's this but legal and the fucking shell garage on south lamar has just got stacks and stacks and so there's kratom and then there's the 708 bills and then i think it's i think it's really impair you if you drive like is it i don't understand 13 times i think more stronger than morphine like you're selling it at the 711 stations yep and then though it's called it's like pervs yes like prks yeah i think they're illegal now i think they're making them illegal they're trying to yeah right now they're like apparently i think they're i swear to god like 10 i think it's maybe even today that they're trying to pass the vape shops are crushed between the thca or what is it delta 8 thc that now if you get caught with delta 8 in texas you go to jail for like five five years what's that a strong form of thc not even but it's like the synthetic thc stuff that they're selling in vape shops and now all that stuff's like super illegal in Texas.

1:43:29Like a vape cartridge. I think a vape cartridge is like five years. What they kept on doing was basically adding some new molecule. We're going to change this one bond and this one bond. And it doesn't affect anything to do with how your body interacts with it. Delta 9, Delta 10, Delta 11. It just keep on running away. And the legislation can't catch up quickly enough. What's going on with this world? It was the farm bill. The farm bill said, farm bill that people, you could grow CBD basically, which like hemp is weed. They're saying things. It's just like you can kind of, you know, curate it to have different canadaminoids or whatever, canadaminoids.

1:44:00So you can grow weed with THC. That's weed. If you grow weed with CBD, it's hemp. It's like, you know, it's the same exact plant. But then you could do the thing where if you take every CBD plant has like 0.3 % THC. But if you grow a whole field of it, you could isolate all that THC and get like thousands of grams of pure THC. And that was technically legal to then make drinks with. So then they did a thing where you could have weed with THCA, which is just regular weed. When you heat THCA, it turns into THC. That's like when you decarboxylate weed to make brownies or whatever. You have to heat it up in the carbon molecule or whatever.

1:44:34So they were just selling THCA weed. It was just weed legally for like three years due to the hemp farm bill that was federally legal. That's why - Weed was legal for four years basically. And then they just, I think they're repealing it. Changed this. Have you been to Amsterdam and had the, so they've got mushrooms, which is what grows above ground, and then truffles, which is the root system. And it's just the same thing. But they legislated what was above ground. Right. And hey, if you eat root. I like those kind of rules. Yeah. It's not the top part, pal. Yeah. It's very evident. The funny thing, with the farm bill, it became that the U.S.

1:45:09Department of Agriculture was overlooking weed grows for like four years. So you could literally grow weed, and a guy from the U.S. Department of Agriculture would be like, yeah, it looks good. There was no, it wasn't, they should have like the DEA, so unregulated. It was, weed was unregulated for like four years. Some guy that knows fertilizer and crop rotation. Combine harvest is very nice. Yeah. I had to take a selfie just to watch porn last night. Oh, you did it? Oh, because you're in Texas. Yeah, Texas got, you got to have proof you're an adult. No. Yeah, I did it. Well, I got your phone or something?

1:45:39I took a selfie, yeah. I said, hey, but take a selfie. Take a dick pic. True. No, I didn't. I'm in some database now where they go. But the selfie, he goes, oh, he's old enough. Because that's not the case in Cali. That's a real thing. I'm not making that up. Your political enemies are going to use that. You're in the fucking - What, I looked at porn? You're in the DNC database. Sorry, guys, that I looked at porn. You're in the DNC database. I guess I'm a terrible guy now. I did do it on the 20th floor with all the windows open. I've been alone for 15 days straight. You might look at some porn.

1:46:05Sorry, guys. You were in Texas for 15 days? No, I was just saying I was alone for 15 days. I see. Yeah. What are you doing in town? What else is going on? I've got mothership shows all weekend. Unreal. But then I've just been doing shooting guns and hanging out with friends. Dropping into Jocko as well. That's it. Can you tell us about, can you tell that story about the huge fuck off sniper rifle thing? Oh, yeah. That was so fucking cool.

1:46:30Jocko Willink:So somebody made a sniper rifle to see if this was a good idea. And I want to say it was either 20 millimeter or 25, but I think it was a 25 millimeter sniper rifle. And they brought it up to our sniper school. and they wanted to see if this like is a viable idea so 25 millimeter is massive this is a massive freaking bullet and this uh they start giving it to the students to see if they can hit anything well you're you're like bracing for it for that thing to go off and no one could shoot it properly and you know guy might hit the target one time and then they're just so petrified to pull the trigger again they'd miss and they would just be like hey i'm not shooting this anymore and so i have a buddy who was the senior guy that was in charge of the sniper school who is one hard hard individual and little crazy and no one could make this gun work and then finally he's like all right give it to me and he sat down and just like gritted his teeth and just cracked off around hit the target just sucked it up cracked off another round hit the target again cracked off three that's like a normal three round group puts it all on target and the people that have manufactured this weapon and like, oh my gosh, it's a viable option.

1:47:41Jocko Willink:And he just got up and was like, do not make this weapon. It was just so crazy. But a testament to that dude who is like just a hard, crazy dude. I'm like that guy. Yeah. He's like one of the guys we were talking about earlier. Like, yeah, you know, he would need an outlet. You know what I mean? But that's exactly who you want in war. Like somebody that'd be like, oh, you want, no one can do this? Cool, watch this. I'll do it. I'll take whatever concussive impact there is to the shooting this thing. I'll do it. What is it that's happening if you fire a gun that's that big? Is it just the shock wave?

1:48:12Is it the fact that it's hitting you in the body? Like what was the...

1:48:15Jocko Willink:Yeah, the worst thing is the shock wave. Like the shock wave, that concussive wave that you're going to get over your head, you know, is going to be gnarly. That's a real thing. Like just sickness, disorienting, little like microbes. It's like getting cracked in the head. When you spar and you get somebody cracks you and you're like, oh, you see a little white flash. And you can still power through it like he did. And then you take another, you know, crack to the head and you're like, okay, I can power through it. It's that the two that's cracking you to the head. Yeah, you're cracking yourself.

1:48:40By playing the trigger of this thing.

1:48:40Jocko Willink:And then the next day you're like, wow, I wonder why I have this headache. Oh, yeah. I can't remember the last day. Exactly. Is that not, you know when guys have got huge cannons in World War II and stuff like that, would that not have been that time as a thousand? Oh, totally. Totally, yeah. Would it affect a dolphin's brain the same as it would affect - Possibly, possibly. I don't know. It depends on who's riding the thing's back. Fucking swimming around going, the shock is what hurts the worst. After picking minds off the straight-up reviews, yeah, probably. I always think about seeing World War II shit when the guys are just loading huge shells in and then they've got a bathroom light switch pole.

1:49:16Boom.

1:49:17Jocko Willink:They didn't even wear hearing protection either. They didn't wear hearing protection. They just got some. Yeah. I thought about that today when I was shooting it, just about how much my grandpa would have loved just the technology that was in the scope. The scope alone. I was like, this is, I mean, I'm nailing it because the scope is so accurate and whatever. It's like, they didn't have any of that. You know? Chasing away. shooting stuff. What's the truth around, there's these rumors, I don't know whether it was World War II or Vietnam or whatever, the number of soldiers that never fired their weapon directly at the enemy.

1:49:47Jocko Willink:Did that ever get debunked or whatever? Yeah, it got debunked. So there's a guy named S.L.A. Marshall who wrote this book and wrote these theories about how, and he went around and interviewed soldiers and it turns out, you know, it wasn't true. You know, like he used it and it's kind of, he had the hypothesis going into it, but it wasn't true. And the theory was that maybe people on one side of the battle were not prepared to try and fire that weapon at them. The theory was like, it's such an abhorrent thing for humans to like shoot a weapon at other humans that they just would get to that point and they'd go, I can't do it.

1:50:19Jocko Willink:And you know, the number was like 10 % of, only 10 % of the troops involved in direct combat would actually engage the enemy. And so that's when they started using man-shaped silhouettes to shoot at for targets and even putting like pictures. So you get, oh, they're going to condition these guys to be able to shoot at man-shaped targets because they said they needed that kind of conditioning. But again, the guy, SLA Marshall, he was like a reservist and he was a journalist in his regular life. So it was kind of him hyping up a story and publishing up sensationalism. Also pretty nuts to explain like World War II casualty numbers.

1:50:56Yeah, it was just 10 % of the guys shooting. Well, yeah, imagine if everybody else had decided to fire their weapons and there'd just be no one left.

1:51:03Jocko Willink:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty nuts. Yeah. And he, he kind of, he also made some stories up about how much he had been in combat in world war one. So it was the whole thing. And he had a lot of clout inside the military. You know, he had a lot of clout from that. You know, he, he wrote that, that theory. He wrote another theory about how much weight guys can carry. That was a little bit more realistic, but yeah. So it's a little bit debunked. What happens to guys like that? Is he on like a list right now? Or is it like people want to kill that guy? When someone starts publishing shit and making things up, it must piss you off.

1:51:32Jocko Willink:Yeah. I think it pisses everyone off. that's my point that's a good it's kind of the rule is the code yeah like hey don't try and make yourself into something that you weren't you know and generally speaking it's like oh if you're in the military good job thank you for your service whether you know there's a whole spectrum of things that you could do everyone from being a a supply clerk to somebody that's on the front lines yeah you know get in direct combat and it's like yeah everyone did their part thank you for doing your part where people get into trouble is when they make it out to seem as if they did more than And they actually did.

1:52:03Jocko Willink:Yeah. Also. So one time I was at Topgolf and my friend Josh Nelson, for a$6 discount, they go, are you a veteran or a senior citizen or whatever? Stolen valor? He said that he was a veteran and he got$6 off. Yeah. I'm coming for you. What's his name? Jeff Johnson? Josh Nelson. Josh Nelson. Really? 25 millimeter rifle. Yeah, dude. $6, Josh? Was it worth it? He's probably getting the Chili's discount and everything. Yeah. Yeah, well, she just goes, are you a senior citizen or a veteran or whatever the third thing was? And he goes, yes. So maybe he was stealing value from the old people or the students.

1:52:40But I took it as an insult to my man here. So Josh, watch your fucking back. What are the best privileges, veteran privileges? I always hear that active military gets on the plane first. That seems pretty fucking cool. Not even first, though. I think Concierge Key gets on before the military. I swear to God, I don't think they're first. We can only get Concierge Key if you're a veteran. I don't think so. I don't know what that is. What is that? I don't know. It's a really rare thing. Some like super sky mouse. It's like a million miles. Because I remember, I could be wrong, but I'm almost positive it's not military first.

1:53:14It's like, I swear to God, it's like Sky Club or something. It's some bullshit. I swear to God. If you have a Seahawks, I could be wrong.

1:53:22Jocko Willink:I think you're wrong. I think you might be wrong. I think active duty military goes first. Okay. I think that is who goes first. They go right after the pre-boarding. Oh, okay. And then it's like the - Disabled people, people that need wheelchairs and assistance. And then - Right, right, right. Oh, here we go. What order does the military get let on in planes? Depends on the airline. Okay, there we go. Passengers needing extra assistance. Wheelchairs. Active duty. Yeah. Why would wheelchairs be before active military? Because you got to take so long. It takes a while. Yeah, but fuck them. That's better than - What are we talking about?

1:53:53They're already sitting. They're relaxed. Very judgmental for the people that have got disabilities today. What else do you get?

1:54:00Jocko Willink:Probably quite frankly, one of the best benefits that you get from the military is the VA loan. So you get a loan to buy a house and it's no money down. So that's pretty awesome. How does that work? You get a VA loan. So if you were going to buy a Veterans Administration, so if you're going to buy a$300 ,000 house, instead of having to come up with whatever 10 % or 20 % to put down on that, you can just get a VA loan. you, it's all, you can borrow all that money. Cool. So yeah, it makes, it makes that first, well, not whenever you want, you'll have a mortgage, but the loan bit, right? Yeah, the loan, it's just a normal mortgage.

1:54:35Jocko Willink:But yeah, that's, that's a cool thing. Yeah. There's a bunch of good benefits. Uh, you know, the, the health benefits that you get for the rest of your life, which, you know, people have different experiences with the VA. There's, there's, it's somewhat socialized medicine, which as you know, being from England is not always the best thing, but since it is America and we try and take care of our veterans. Some people, depending, it's, a lot of it is like almost like a franchise. You know, you go to some franchise and it's pretty good to go and you go to another franchise and it's not. So there's some of that with the VA where depending on where you are and what the VA is like in your city or in your town, it can be pretty good or it can be pretty bad.

1:55:10Jocko Willink:So there's, you know, obviously that's a great thing, the health benefits that you get from it. You get, you know, money for college. If you want to go to college or you can pass it on to your kids if you want to do that. So yeah, there's a bunch of good, I mean, there's a bunch of really good benefits from being in the military. And obviously I love being in the military, so I'll say all kinds of good stuff about it. The UK, the biggest difference that I've seen from going UK to US from the military side is how much reverence there is for veterans. Like it's almost, to be honest, kind of looked down on a little in the UK if you were - Really?

1:55:43Yeah. I mean, maybe not if you went to Sandhurst and did the officer thing in the track, but it's just seen as you didn't choose to have a more refined it's very i've it feels very icky like it doesn't feel like the same kind of uh pedestalization like upholding the the sanctity

1:56:03Jocko Willink:of protecting the country and doing the thing that's kind of crazy considering the proud tradition of the british military there is no getting on the plane first i've i mean maybe you get a discount in Nando's for 10 % or something, but - Topgolf, for real. Topgolf UK. I just, it's not got the same. I mean, and I was wearing some Black Rifle Coffee t-shirt a couple of years ago, and there's that tri-blend military green thing. And I think on all of their t-shirts, they've got the flag on the arm. And it's got a reaper on the front of it and some older guy on a plane that was sat toward the front.

1:56:38So I walked past. So I'm being sort of shunted along. I mean, with the cabin class going toward the back. I can't slow down. And he goes, thank you for your service. And I'm like, no, it's not. I'm English. And I didn't bother to buy. And I stole Valor passively. How does that make you feel? I don't know. He sort of threw Valor at me, which I think is different. And I'm like, I can't put this down. I'm trying to bat it away. Dude, if I serve food in the military and someone even hint it towards me being in combat, I'd be like, I don't want to talk about it. I know this about myself. I would have.

1:57:10100 % do that. And I hate that about myself, but I would definitely do that. I don't like to do that. I wouldn't say anything. I would be like, guys like these, you know what I'm saying? I'm just honest. I'm just being honest. If someone were to give me credit like that, I wouldn't be like, well, actually, I'd be like, we all played our part. It's actually real. I'll talk to guys

1:57:28Jocko Willink:or guys will ask me, guys that were in the military like before September 11th, after Vietnam, before September 11th, they did whatever, 1994 to 1999. And they feel so bad and so guilty that they didn't serve in combat. And I always tell them, hey, you did what your country needed you to do at the time. Thank you for your service. But guys do feel guilty about that. What was happening then from a military perspective? Nothing really. Yeah, I mean, I was in the entire 90s and we didn't do barely anything. We did like shipboardings over in the Persian Gulf, people that were smuggling whatever stuff in and out of Iraq.

1:58:01Jocko Willink:So we did shipboardings over there to like get control of those vessels. But that was pretty much like the real missions that we were doing at the time. and it was just not that big of a deal. So what happens when 2001 comes along? Like what did that feel like to go from seeing this period of relative, I mean, as peaceful as the fucking military with guns can be, I suppose. Very peaceful. And then there is a very large, or two very large pistols that get set off. Yeah, no, it was totally different. Yeah, total game changer for everybody. Yeah, overnight. What was waking up mid-September like? Well, we just knew.

1:58:36Jocko Willink:I mean, everybody knew that we were going to war. Now, if you would have asked me at the time, would we be, you're going to be at war for two decades? I wouldn't have thought that. We all thought that much like some of the other sort of operations that had taken place, whether it's Panama or Grenada, something like that, these things lasted a few days, even the first Gulf War over in 72 hours. I was, so I was, the Navy had sent me to college at the time. So I was in college and I was all distraught because I thought I was going to miss this war. You know, I want to to be a commander my whole life.

1:59:06Jocko Willink:You know, there's nothing going on in the nineties when I'm in, I know that we're all going to war and it's probably going to be over very shortly and I'm not going to be a part of it. So I actually called the guy that was in charge of assigning us to wherever, whatever SEAL team you're going to go to. And I said, Hey, sir, you know, please get me out of here. Send me back to a SEAL team. I'll finish college later. And he, he said, Hey, this is going to last a long time. And I didn't believe him. He goes, this is going to last a really long time. And I was like, no, it's not. He goes, I finished college and I'll get you to a team.

1:59:32Jocko Willink:And sure enough, I mean, he got me to a team a little while later and sure enough, he got me to a team that was deploying next. Luckily, thankfully to Iraq, but even my first deployment to Iraq, I thought, oh, this is going to be over. You know, we'll be, I'm so lucky I get to be here and do my job for six months right now because it's probably going to be over. Then probably that was 2003, 2004. Now we get into 2005, you start saying, oh, this is going to be on for a long time. And then, you know, it lasted for two decades. When did you realize that it was going to be more than just a couple of years?

2:00:04Jocko Willink:I would say the middle of 2005. That's when the news, you started really hearing the shift in the news that they were saying that this is an insurgency now. As opposed to just a regime, hey, we're going to take out the regime and walk away, which we could have done. But instead, now we're going to stay there. We're going to try and turn them into a democratic country. It's like, okay, that might not be a great idea. okay and now you start to have the insurgency which is al-qaeda leadership starts coming in from other countries and they're starting to run and direct and finance operations inside iraq and the local populace again you know there's so many complexities to this but you know the the the shias are the majority people there and it's been run by the sunnis for a long time so it doesn't take much to sort of spark a spark friction between those two elements because they already have bad blood between each other.

2:00:55Jocko Willink:And of course, Al Qaeda doesn't want America to have any success over there. So they do their best to spark that conflict between the Sunnis and the Shias. It's a disaster. Yeah. Well, 9-11 is maybe second only to the atomic bombs is like very small period of time that just totally changed the course of the future. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. And I would say even the atomic bombs were less because that, that was, you know, the direction that we were going in, we were going in that direction. If we would have, if we didn't have atomic bombs that time, we would have landed on mainline Japan and we would have, we would have been a costly victory, but we were going to win.

2:01:34Jocko Willink:So I would say that, yeah, 9-11 was even more of a radical change. Such a left turn. Yeah. Such a left turn. Were you more Sunni or Shia? So it depends on how you look at it. The, the, the Sunnis and the Shias, you know, it's, It's one of those scenarios where we worked alongside the Sunnis, but the Shias made up the vast majority of the army, of the Iraqi army. So you kind of had to do both. You kind of had to get along with both of them. Reasonable. Yeah. Yeah. Both guy. Yeah. You kind of got to get along with both. It's fucking crazy. I mean, it's 25th anniversary in a month. Yeah. What? For 9-11.

2:02:14I don't know. It's called an anniversary of a tragedy. What would you call it? Maybe Memorial? Maybe Memorial? Just call it 25, like 250. Yeah, okay, like America 250. Yeah, Memorial, I guess. Make 25 merch. I remember before I moved out here, it was the back end of 21, and I was watching these awesome documentaries. Netflix did just the archive footage, even though you've got such a constrained amount. They keep on finding or being able to remaster or make stuff a little bit better. And this is as I'm sort of dreaming of coming out to America. And when you're anywhere that hasn't been involved in living in Manhattan, thinking about it, it almost feels unreal.

2:02:55It's like watching somebody play a video game, kind of. Because it's such an insane city and the density is so high. And then obviously the incident's just like so crazy. And now that I've spent time, lots of time in New York, and I fucking love Manhattan, I think it's so cool. Thinking about that thing happening, like that actually happened in a city that i've spent tons of time in i've walked around freedom tower i've seen you know ground zero all that stuff that must have just been for the people that were there that must have been like That's one of the most, across all of human history. What other days have been more insane to have seen something like that happen?

2:03:36Yeah, it's pretty well. So crazy.

2:03:38Jocko Willink:Yeah, seeing a plane crash into a fucking building. Two. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, I mean, obviously Pearl Harbor was a huge impact as well, but again, we were leaning in that direction anyways. It was like, there's a lot of isolationists in America, obviously, during that time, but there was also people that were like, hey, we got to do something. and that tipped the scales. But yeah, 9-11 was just, we were all just carrying on with normal stuff. And then boom. It's like a shocking incident at Pearl Harbor and with the atomic bombs, but not a shocking trajectory. This is a total just off-road left-turn thing.

2:04:17So yeah, it's wild. That being said, it's so fascinating to see now in retrospect what that did. It changed travel. travel, it changed the entire sort of geopolitical landscape. Yeah. I wonder how different the world would be if that hadn't happened. It would be like literally a different fucking universe.

2:04:35Jocko Willink:Different universe. Yeah. I mean, my life, obviously everybody that I know would, you know, who knows what their lives would be like. You'd have still been in college. Maybe. Do you guys know anyone that was there in Manhattan during - The only story I've heard is that, do you know Luis J. Gomez? Yeah. comedian, he rollerbladed away. He was on rollerblades and he rollerbladed away from New York City. Faster than he's ever rollerbladed in his life. Yeah, it's a true story. Apparently, he wasn't at ground zero, but he was there when it got impacted. Wheelies could have helped. Wheelies could have helped.

2:05:10He apparently rollerbladed super far. It was like, ah, and just rollerbladed away. It was Gomez. Speed skating away from it. I like the idea that he yelled at. Talk about PTSD.

2:05:23Jocko Willink:It's like the biggest day in history and you get caught on rollerblades. It's like a bad dream. Nightmare. Where were you in that? I don't know. I was just rollerblading around. Having e-pads on and elbow pads and a helmet. Wrist cards. Yeah. You are safe. You know Michael Jackson was supposed to have a meeting on the top of one of the Twin Towers on 9-11, but he slept in. Can we confirm this? This sounds like some bullshit Michael Jackson's team would say. Let me give you an even better one. Let me give you an even fucking better one than that. The boy that was never there. Seth MacFarlane, guy that started Family Guy, was supposed to get on a flight on the morning of 9-11.

2:06:00And his assistant misbooked the time on his schedule. He arrived at the airport, but missed the plane. So the plane left. That was the plane that hit the South Tower. Really? Yeah. So he bought his assistant Rolls-Royce as a thank you for having gotten him late. It might be the very only. Michael Jackson was definitely in New York City. The answer is possibly, but not definitely established. His brother said in his memoir and in interviews, Michael was scheduled to attend meetings at the World Trade Center that morning, but overslept. That looks good enough for me. No, we'll give it to you. Yeah, wasn't he hooked up to like propanol or something?

2:06:32That day? Probably. What's propanol? A doctor used to like hook him up to like a sleeping drug. He was like IV. Pretty sure propanol's, oh, is that beta blockers? No, maybe I don't know. That's propanolol. Maybe propanol is what you use for general anesthetic.

2:06:46Jocko Willink:He would do anesthesia every night to go to bed. Fuck. Is that why he looked like that? My sister lives in Manhattan. My sister was in Manhattan on September 11th. And we didn't hear from her for a couple of days. I mean, I wasn't like super worried about her because she lived, she didn't work in the trade centers or anything. But there was a couple of days where there was not good communications coming in and out of there because of all the traffic over the old school cell phone towers and all that. Did you ever hear about the insurance? There's like the occurrence debacle with the World Trade Center.

2:07:11So it's like the guy who owned them, he was taking out a 99 year lease. And it wasn't like their insurance thing. It said like, In the event of an occurrence, like a disastrous occurrence, you were to get$3.8 billion. He was like, since it was two planes, it's two occurrences, I should get like - Double. Yeah, pretty much like$7 billion. And he had to fall. Some of the insurance companies actually had to pay double, and then another one just was like, nah, we're not doing that. But he went for double. He's like, it was technically two planes. It was one word in the contract that cost billions of dollars.

2:07:41Well, it is.

2:07:41Jocko Willink:I mean, what are the odds? Yeah, I mean, shit, yeah. Then that's what you get insurance for. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Fuck me. I mean, all of the stuff around COVID, Bill Ackman, you know Bill Ackman, the guy that made the short selling bet against Herbalife? So he's a trader, but he trades against companies as opposed to for them. And short sellers are usually pretty disliked inside of the market because you're actively going after market value. You're betting against something. So you're trying to take them down. You're finding out shit to do with their executives or the financials aren't right or the formulation doesn't work or something as opposed to, hey, positive sum.

2:08:14I'll just bet on the market going up and to the right. and during covid he put a special kind of insurance on early so he sort of put this bet that the whole market was going to go to shit you know the the big short that was michael burry's thing and they made the document the uh movie about it bill ackman made more money than the big short in six weeks with this one bet like called the new big short the problem is the reason i think it's not being dramatized is there's not that much drama it's just one guy who's got a good bit of vision going, I think this is going to fucking work. Pressing a button, pressing a button.

2:08:51There's no narrative, right? There's no story unfolding and all the rest of it. But yeah, I mean, the fucking financial crisis. Like how much would 9-11 have played into that?

2:09:01Jocko Willink:It's fucking crackers, dude. It's also wild with the financial crisis that so few people, of all these people that are sitting around in New York in those big buildings trying to figure out what's going to happen. And there's like six or seven guys that are going, well, here's a good bet. you guys are all making a bad move the yeah newspapers and the build-up to the great depression i think in the couple of weeks so you can do a sentiment analysis on all of the headlines not a single person is predicting it it comes out of absolute no way everyone's it's going to be a boon the 1929 is going to be even better and yeah people just don't see it so there is a long and illustrious history of people not being able to predict what the fuck is going to go on with finances.

2:09:45Jocko Willink:Yeah. And by the way, that's just true in life. You know, I always bring this up with like war and combat. People, oh, this is going to happen. That's going to happen. Like you don't know. You know what's going to happen. So don't put all your money on the table on one bet. Cause it's not a good move unless maybe you're Bill Ackman. Yeah. How do you, it seems like there's sort of two things that you're trying to do at once there. One is have as much control and prediction as possible in the micro, but it sounds like you're just totally hands-on. It's like this war can go on for as long as it does.

2:10:13We have no idea how the rest of the country and the geopolitics and the governments are going to interact with each other. Is that difficult?

2:10:20Jocko Willink:Well, to me, it's not that difficult. It's not that difficult to look at any situation and say, oh yeah, I'm not exactly sure what's going to happen. And this is a mistake that America's made many times, which is, oh, this is what's going to happen. We know what's going to happen. You don't know what's going to happen. No one knows what's going to happen. It's like getting in a fight, right? You go, you walk up, you're walking down the street, you see some guy that's whatever, skinny and weak looking and possibly drunk. And you're like, oh, I'm going to kick this guy's ass. What happens? He pulls out a knife, you know, you stumble.

2:10:49Jocko Willink:Like there's things that can happen that you cannot predict, even when you're bigger, stronger. And if you have that attitude, lack of humility, then you're going to make mistakes. So, you know, all these things that go on in the world when people start explaining exactly how it's going to happen. I'm like, you do not know what's going to happen. You don't understand human will. How do you know what someone else is willing to go through? You have no idea. Just like you can't look at a guy that's going through SEAL training and say, oh, that guy's going to make it, and that guy's not. No, you have no idea.

2:11:18Jocko Willink:So you look at a whole country, and you're going to say, oh, this is how they're going to behave? You have no idea how they're going to behave. And you don't really understand their culture. And even if you did understand their culture from your college that you went to in New York, you don't understand what it's like on the ground. So we make a lot of moves that we shouldn't be making just because we think we can predict things that we can't predict. Yeah, I saw a lot of that in the Iran stuff where you'd have a professor. He's like, I've been studying unilateral by proxy warfare for 30 years.

2:11:42My analysis. And you're like, dude, shut up. Shut up. You have no idea. You do not know. It's got to be hard to be someone who's supposed to make predictions because there's so many ways that it can go wrong and literally only one way that it can go right. Yeah. like of all of the different ways that the future could unfold i'm pinning my colors to the mast of this one yeah and every single other bet that could happen for reasons that i do or don't know about i'm just fucked dude i i read a book called uh the next hundred years i don't know if i talked about this before by george friedman and he he wrote it i think like i would say the early 2000s maybe like 2010 or whatever but he i remember i only read half but he was pretty he predicted our um uh russia ukraine conflict back then almost to like the t it was pretty i don't know i have to look it up but it was definitely written maybe like 10 years before the russia ukraine thing happened did he say why he thought he was gonna he was just saying they have to like it's an adventure like russia needs that area to secure their because like their borders are so weak because like from ukraine it's just you're right there to the major cities so like they're gonna have to do that eventually how much is that that russia ukraine conflict and why are you not an active participant in the way that you used to be, but has that changed the sort of landscape of how people think about warfare tactically?

2:12:58Totally.

2:12:59Jocko Willink:I mean, a hundred percent. The drones is a totally new world. That's a totally new world. And it's very interesting just how fast they make changes and adjust to the technology and the tactics as well has been incredible to see. So it's full like capitalism warfare, meaning that the faster you can adapt and do things a different way and a new way that's successful and put more resources behind that, that's what they're doing. And they're doing it very rapidly. That's what's keeping the Ukrainians in the game is that they're just, they're like, I read an article about there was an element, there's, there's these drone elements, right?

2:13:37Jocko Willink:Drone units of, of Ukrainians. And they basically say, Hey, here's how we're keeping score. Go do as much damage as you can. Whoever does the most damage out of these, I don't know what the numbers, but four or five, let's say four or five platoons of drone operators. Okay. Whoever gets the most action or destroys the most Russian, we're going to give you more money. And that's exactly what they did. They're gamified it. And so they're going, okay, well, what can we do? How can we make this work? And they're just figuring out a way to win and they're doing it very rapidly. This is what America's not good at, right?

2:14:09Jocko Willink:This is why Anderil, companies like Anderil who are just going to make stuff and do it very rapidly are going to end up being much more valuable than the old traditional, unless Raytheon and those other big ones make adjustments, they're not going to be able to keep up with a company like Andrel because capitalism on the battlefield is a really important thing, the way things are moving so quickly. Capitalism warfare is so fucking cool. Yeah. It does sound fucking sick, honestly. What are the changes? So it's mostly drones? That's the big thing. Oh yeah, it's drones. The drones are totally, totally different.

2:14:43Jocko Willink:Yeah. I mean, you guys all watch the videos. I'm sure you guys, you know, stay up at night watching videos of these things going on. Doing headset. But like one of the most interesting things, if you're tracking this, you know, the, the, the original drones were all controlled by radio, right? Radio frequencies. And those things were getting blocked and jammed. And so all these new drones are controlled by, by wire, by, by, you know, filament, fiber optics. And they can go, they have fiber optic cables that are 60 kilometers long. What? And so you got this, it looks like a little tube and there's a whole thing in there wrapped with the filament.

2:15:22Jocko Willink:And they fly these things 60 kilometers. And the whole battlefield over there is now draped with this filament, this fiber optic filament. It's like spider webs. but you know this is what they're doing this is what about stuff you're not allowed to do like biological warfare or like even the shock things we're talking about i see things where people were like dude we were in a crowd and then they just hit us with this thing that you're not supposed to do but like was it not in venezuela yeah but what about all that kind of stuff venezuela riot and the fucking energy weapon jared this is crazy yeah what is it called like is there's some sort term for it where they can make noise, shoot noise.

2:16:02Like a sonic weapon of some kind. But what about all that shit? We've got to be ahead of the curve.

2:16:08Jocko Willink:And the thing is, there'll be a counter for that stuff. Just like they're going to figure out a way to counter these filament drones. Their technology will find a way to defend itself and they'll make another adjustment to that and they'll just keep doing that. It'd be much more... The pace of technological advancement is what we'll see now in the wars from here on out. In Iraq, when I was in Iraq, the insurgents would figure out how to put a bomb in the road. And then we'd figure out how to build armor. And then they'd figure out how to build a bigger bomb. And then when we started jamming, they were detonating them with walkie-talkies.

2:16:45Jocko Willink:And so we figured out how to jam them. And then they figured out how to put pressure plates in the road. So it's just a technological race. But those cycles would take months, you know, four months, three months, six months. But these things are just happening much more rapidly. Yeah, the bioweapon shit scares me, man. That's like the... I watched the interview with RFK Jr. on CNN. Did you see that? Him and I forget the lady's name. They were going at it. It was actually pretty cool to watch. But at one point, I could be wrong, but I could have sworn she was like, well, what are you going to do?

2:17:15Experts say there will be another pandemic in 10 years. And she almost said it like, it's happening. what do you and i was just like well the fuck do you know why you say it was almost like it sounded like she was very certain being like oh it's gonna happen she thinks she's the simpsons calling it shut this is kind of like first of all why it's weird to be like oh there definitely will be another pandemic well they used to like hitler and stuff used to play with bugs and like like literally like you do break rules of war like you're not allowed to like put diseases in bugs and then release bugs into a field and go it'll get them like there's there's rules or there's supposed to be rules.

2:17:47There's supposed to be, yeah. And that's a long time ago. So I can't rule out that there must not be people trying to figure this stuff out. I would say definitely, yeah. Annie Jacobson came on the show. I want the inside scoop. Come on. Annie Jacobson came on the show and she was talking about biological war. The Russians had developed this weapon that had, you know, you need to think about the incubation period, the mortality, the transmissibility, all of this stuff. And they put one of the side effects of this disease, this infectious disease was euphoria. So people would feel great for about 24 hours and go out dancing, go out partying, want to go and be social, go for dinner, spend time with friends.

2:18:26They'd engineered euphoria into the pathogen. Oh, so you would go spread it. Super spread it. Yeah, it would encourage you. Because if you feel sick, then you're in bed. And maybe you don't go. And they'd realize, oh, if we make people feel great, they'll spread this even faster. That made, still now, sort of hairs on my own. Like, it makes me feel so... Have we got the fucking energy weapon, Jared? Is this thing... It also wouldn't even work on me. If I got that, I'd be like, I'm staying in. Yeah. I'll watch Love on the Spectrum. I'm not going anywhere. I feel too good to go out.

2:19:02Right there. Whoa.

2:19:06Jocko Willink:Calls are mounting in Serbia for an independent investigation into whether a sonic weapon was used by security forces on people protesting government corruption. Although it doesn't look like it. A progressive Serbian opposition party alleged that a sonic weapon... Look at this. ...a class not included on the government's list of legal weapons... Just totally silent. This was the video. ...a cosmic panic you see here.

2:19:31Just from nothing. Like, out of nowhere. But you'd think that they would go like, ugh, or like they would make some... They didn't. They kind of just, like, sensed a panic that something's coming.

2:19:39Jocko Willink:And you're right. That panic, like, in World War I, they had to get control over the guys that would run messages back and forth because if a guy was running from the front line back to tell his commander what was going on and like I go running away and you see me and you're like oh Jocko's running you start running we all just start running away so there might have been a little bit of that in that scenario also like usually if it's really jolting you like that like you lose you know bodily fluid all the stuff like you'll see someone having a reaction to it is what I'm saying you piss yourself and be like what the hell I thought they used that so Venezuela was the country It's disarming, you know?

2:20:13Yeah, something happened. I heard that about Venezuela, that one day they're sitting there and they just kind of came right in. Or they cut their power. What did they cut their power or something? For the extraction of the hero? Yeah, yeah. I'm speaking to the right guy here. Things that you can't say. How much do you get, without saying it, how much do you still get to find out about cool shit that goes on? Do you still get to hear some cool shit?

2:20:35Jocko Willink:I hear some cool shit. And how do you hear it? They can't text it to you. They can't text it to you. How do you hear it? So cool knowing about cool shit. You've got to be in the right WhatsApp chat. You're in the right WhatsApp chat. That's what I'm saying. It's like, where are they sharing this secret information? Keep tag Seth, dude. Just got to fuck it into your DNA. He goes, hey, jump on the CB radio. No one's in here. Yeah. Did that really happen? Did we do testosterone for the soldiers? I saw that in the headline. Of course. Can we give soldiers testosterone? Well, yeah. I think that's what they're saying is they're opening it up.

2:21:02Jocko Willink:And, you know, there is guys have had problems with this. And it's the same, you know, the TBIs, the traumatic brain injuries. One of the things that impacts is your ability to, I guess, is it your pineal gland that makes testosterone? Cacao. Cacao. We get some cacao and some testosterone. So guys that have issues with that, and plus they're stressed out all the time. They don't get much sleep and all this stuff, and it impacts their testosterone. So they're saying they're going to check them more and give them more testosterone. on how many guys that are in special forces do you think are doing it without any acid they're not on any pain meds not on any sleep meds and any anti-anxiety stuff is it rare that someone's not supported in one form or another said dj shipley there and he might be an extreme case but he was explaining he's on 50 tablets a day he's on up is to wake him up and down is to get him down and painkillers to stop his pain yeah yeah i mean i think i think for someone like dj who gets on that cycle of you get hurt, right?

2:22:00Jocko Willink:You don't want to stop working. So you got to take something to make the pain go away. So then you start taking something to make the pain go away. And the pain gets worse because you're not training. You're not giving any rest. And so now you're doing more stuff to make the pain go away. Well, eventually you go, I need something to get me back to focus because my pain's going away. And so is my, you know, motor skills. So now you're going on something else. So I think that's the cycle that guys can get caught on. um but you know i there's a lot of people that don't do anything you know what i mean i mean i never even took ambien like there was a lot of guys that would take ambien to sleep i never took i never took anything i never took your entire military career yeah and but i don't think i'm not i don't think that's as rare as you might think it is but i will say when guys get hurt dj's got the exact story like a guy gets hurt no one wants to come out of the game right no one wants to come out of the game.

2:22:49Jocko Willink:So you do whatever you got to do to stay in the game. And that means you're the cycle that I just talked about. So that definitely happens because you're in an injury prone job. I mean, you get just the day to day life, fast roping out of helicopters, landing on this deck of a ship that's going up and down, you know, humping through the desert, carrying buddy, carrying people like it's a day to day grind on your body that is, you know, the bad back, bad shoulders, bad knees, the whole nine yards. And that's happening all the time. So guys have to do what they want to do or what they have to do to stay in the game you imagine if comedy was a sober pursuit if no one was allowed to use any enhancements i know i think about that a lot actually is like how often we call something cheating it's like who cares yeah like dude if you found out that like some of the most brilliant minds of the past were using some sort of enhancement or psilocyte he wouldn't give a shit like he wrote a great song yeah that was whatever Same with that.

2:23:45Like people go, cause I know a lot of like military guys, but then also policemen and a fire department who they do steroids or they'll do like testosterone. And I go, good. I want you to be a strong, whatever you think is going to work, bro. You're not hitting home runs for the giants. You know, like you, like we need you the best you can be dude. So yeah, it's okay. Use it. But also we should all use it. If you're going to make better comedy because you smoke pot or you do mushrooms or whatever, then whatever it takes. I think about that with business, you know, business is an untested federation but no one in the futsy 100 500 is going actually i need to do a blood test on you because it seems like oh yeah that ceo wasn't using modafinil and adderall and testosterone and ambien to make sure so people care about sports because it's supposed to be a really fair organization but in the world of business which people care about maybe even more than they care about sports.

2:24:40Totally untested. There's this famous clip of Sam Altman from quite a while ago, and somebody's asking him when he was on his grind at Y Combinator, how many hours per day can you be productive? He says, well, if you're taking armadaphinol, up to kind of 18 or 20, I suppose, and you think, oh yeah, actually, if you're in some fast-paced tech organization, there is no limit. You just do whatever you do, and no one's going to come in and go this is bad for your health or whatever you're maximizing shareholder value who gives a fuck right and comedy comedy's kind of the same if this makes you perform better no comic can go hey man your set was good last night but i'd love to see you do it without weed right yeah no well that's why i get so mad about the steroid conversation in baseball because i'm like let them do it i would do whatever it took to be the best at comedy like so if there was some way to cheat take a little injection and i now i'm the funniest guy that affects my money that affects my reputation i'd do it so i get it when baseball players are going hey man i want to play baseball i want to go fight for my country like you you take what you're going to do what you do to stay in the game it's the thing around military operators if there's pushback against them being given something that makes them more effective it's we are not supposed to be playing within the rules there are some rules right geneva convention outside of those and a couple of other things that your government puts on top of you it's like everything should be on the table surely surely if there's one thing that we can all agree national security and not dying and killing the other guy like that should be pretty uncontroversial yeah and it's easy to get caught up in like the

2:26:13Jocko Willink:short term because look if i'm not the best i possibly can be right now then i'm not going to live right so i'm just going to do whatever i can right now but i think the long-term negative health impacts that they have is like you don't want to take these guys cool and just destroy them from a health perspective so when they're 35 they're just like train wrecks trading in their performance today but like killing them tomorrow and there is some to some element to the fact that hey if i'm like on steroids and now i'm on deployment and i go into the field for 24 days do do i have no like natural testosterone am i just a disaster you know what i mean yeah i do in in my pack i've got a small cool bag with a couple of ice packs so i can keep my testosterone make sure that yeah well Well, that legless guy brought a cake to Mount Everest.

2:27:01He can pack some syringes and get a little, come on, what are we talking about? He had candles. True. 34. Get out of here. But also, it depends too, like, is it saying they can have it if they want or you're getting like 20-year-olds and be like, bro, let's go. No, I think they're just testing them. I think it should be enforced. Yeah, like fired up. I think you have to have 1 ,500 nanogram per deciliter of testosterone. And if you don't - Well, you're not doing your best. We need your best. You know that you need to be working hard. Or just at that point, it's like, go mech suits. Go what? Go mech suits.

2:27:33We have like the robotic exoskeleton. Oh, I like those. I've seen those a lot on movies. That's the alternative. That's how I know. Yeah, why not? What do you think about psychedelic therapy for PTSD and stuff? DJ's on here talking about Ibogaine and all of this stuff.

2:27:47Jocko Willink:Yeah, I haven't done it. I know a lot of guys that have done it, and it's been very helpful to them. and I know a smaller number of guys that have done it and it hasn't been helpful. Like adverse or just not helpful? There's been some that have been adverse, but that's a pretty small number compared to the amount. And I believe that the people have had adverse impact. They didn't do it correctly. The integration. They didn't do the pre-work and all that other stuff that you're supposed to do. They just kind of like got after it. You know what I mean? So yeah. Yeah, I think that can be problematic.

2:28:26Jocko Willink:Yeah, let's give a shot. What is it? What are you doing? So, but yeah, it seems like, and they're doing legislation and everything now to try and make it legal and acceptable and paid for by the VA and all that stuff. So hopefully it's helpful. I mean, like I said, I've known some guys that have, I've known a bunch of guys that have done it. It's been very helpful. So if it helps guys out, yeah, by all means. How many people do you think veterans would be fixed by getting one more tour? i wonder whether it's the missing being a part of it feeling like they've got something unrequited or whether it's like a compounding effect over time you've said that in and around ramadi was like one of the best times of your life yeah i wonder whether you ever wished it fuck like if i could just go back for like a couple of weeks 100 yeah i mean everybody would uh well basically almost everybody that i know if you told them if i sent out a text message to my guys and was like, hey, get your gear together, I would get 97 % of the guys like Roger inbound.

2:29:25Jocko Willink:Like, of course. Is that not the coolest thing? I love that. We evidently selected the right people for the job. You know, like a school teacher that's 20 years retired going, hey, do you want to come and teach a class? No way. I don't want to go back in there. Meanwhile, someone that's not been in combat for a little while is like, just give me the call. We got to Ramadi and I sent... I went out with some of my guys too. We were in Western Ramadi and there was real problems in Eastern Ramadi. And we took an element out to Eastern Ramadi for like a week. And it was super gnarly. The living conditions were absolutely terrible.

2:30:00Jocko Willink:We're living in a bombed out building, dirt floors, like bugs all over the place. Very, very hot, totally uncomfortable. And then there was real heavy fighting out there. And, you know, a lot of casualties, not with my guys on that particular time, but in this week, there's a lot of casualties, army, Iraqi army, like it's very tough region in Ramadi. We get done doing some missions out there. We come back and I'm going to send out some guys out there permanently. And I'm talking to the platoon commander, a guy named Seth Stone. I said, Hey, you know, you're going to take some guys out there. And he goes, well, you know, I, I, I don't want to pick someone because I don't want to take guys out there if they don't want to go.

2:30:41Jocko Willink:And I said, okay, fair enough. So I walked into our big platoon space and I wrote on the board, you know, Hey, going to camp Corregidor. And I brought the guys and I'm like, Hey, we're, I'm going to send six or seven guys out there permanently. You guys know the deal that we're out there. If you weren't out there, then here's the deal. It's terrible living conditions. The chances of getting wounded or killed is decently high. There's going to be a lot of operations. and I don't know when you're coming back. If you want to go on that, put your name on the board. And I walked out and I came back 20 minutes later and every single guy's name was on that.

2:31:16Jocko Willink:Nice. Yeah. Dang. I love that. So these are Americans. You know what I mean? That's so sick. I love it. Isn't it the sickest thing? Fucking awesome. It's so cool. I mean, while we talk on microphones for a living. What if there was a guy who did it? I know. You had one guy who just didn't put his name up there. Well, I mean, everyone else was. I figured I would have but everyone else some little bitch nope nope not Matt crew right there John Smith one guy wrote someone else's name Matt yeah that is really nice when you hear that you're like damn that's awesome just chose the right guys for the job yeah you know it's uh it's fucking wild boys I appreciate you all you're all awesome thanks for having me anything coming up any stuff to push any things Just shows, mattmcustard.com, a bunch of stand-up shows.

2:32:08Jeffdye.com, we've got a little special coming out soon, but other than that. When's the movie?

2:32:12Jocko Willink:Movie, November 25th. What? Yep, November 25th, global release, yeah. I wrote a bunch of kids' books. Kids' books have been turned into a movie. It's made by Skydance, and it's coming out on Apple. It's starring Chris Pratt. Nice. Wait, so can you explain it? What do you mean? The kids' books are a movie. The kids books. So I wrote a bunch of kids books and they're a series of kids books and they turned basically the first two books kind of combined together to make the first movie. Way of the Warrior Kid. Yeah. It comes out November 25th. Seen the trailer. Have you seen the trailer? Oh, that's right.

2:32:45Jocko Willink:You saw the trailer. That's right. Super secret. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it looks so fucking cool. It's so good. It's for families, for adults, for everybody. Yep. They call it a four quadrant movie, which means everybody in the family from the kids to the grandparents will all and i've seen it you know it's it's so good i'm so so super stoked on it appreciate you all right thank you thanks for having my beauties dude

2:33:13Jocko Willink:still waiting in line again that's time you'll never get back save time and money with stamps.com over four million businesses have skipped the line with stamps.com join them to save up to 90 percent off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply.