Proof That The Lonely Chapter Works - Jett Franzen - #1130

25:54And I would get up every day and I was doing streaming. I started clipping. I started doing these random things. And it's like, All of a sudden, I start to build myself up and I started to realize, okay, I really want this. I feel like when people say they want something, 95, maybe even more percentage of the time, it's a bluff. Sure, I want the hottest girl in the world. I want to be a millionaire, but wanting something is being willing to pay the price that it requires to get it. I realized that I was willing to pay the price. It was go mode. Like I was constantly, I was doing it so much that my parents were literally begging me not to work.

26:34They're like, jet, what are you doing? Just sitting in this basement. I got no sunlight like ever. I was just so dedicated to what I was doing. And then people will see me now. And I see hate videos about me every day where it's like, why is this guy jet? Why did he find a way to like hit the algorithm and do this? Like he's doing the same thing as everyone else. I was like, Like you literally never saw, you're not acknowledging the 1 ,162 videos it took me before I got 1 ,000 followers. You're not acknowledging the sheer amount of times where I posted something and I was wrong or I got embarrassed or what, like all that stuff.

27:10And then got up the next day and said, I don't, I don't give a shit. I'm just going to keep doing it again. And what I'm realizing now, especially I just graduated college. I'm realizing that it's talk or action. It's you do or you don't. You know what I mean? There's no like, oh, I'm thinking about doing this because I had, I don't know who said this, but the most dangerous people are ambitious, lazy people, people that will lead you to believe that, oh, I'm down to go and start this business idea with you. And I'm going to go knock doors to get leads or do whatever it is. I had an old friend of mine who was just like that.

27:43And he was constantly, oh, I'm down to do this and that with you, Jet. And I'm always like, I'm going to do it. And I'm like, all right, come to my house. Let's set up the plan. He would come to our house. he would set up the plan and then slowly but surely the conversation goes towards girls, random stuff that is not. And I sort of fell into that trap because you act like the people that you're around. And then I realized, wow, the difference between the people that make it and the people that don't are you dedicated yourself for a ridiculous amount of time. And I'm not even including myself in that category.

28:13I have way bigger aspirations. I'm nowhere near where I want to be. But I really saw after I put in the work, I was like, okay, it takes this much to get to that point. And I'm only, you know, a centimeter down the path, down my path of where I want to be. And so then I look at someone like Alex or Mosey, like a Naval Robcon. I'm like, oh yeah, these guys, they put in their due time for so many years, probably got clowned on. Probably everyone that was in their previous life was looking at them. Like, what is this guy doing? You know, maybe he's like 25 years old and he doesn't have any job or he doesn't have anything going for him.

28:50But really behind the scenes, he's relentlessly trying on this entrepreneurial endeavor. He's starting a business. No one really respects you. And so you have to be like, okay, do I have the agency to say, screw their opinion? I'm going to do this and give it a shot or do you not? And honestly, that percentage is like, it's probably more than 95 % of people are on the, they think they want it, but they don't really want it. And then, you know, two to 3%, 5 % are like, I'm actually wanting to do it. And that's what I realized when I, when I started the whole social media thing, I was like, okay, this is going to have to be a daily thing that I want to do.

29:25Right. Before you win, everyone will ask you why you're working so hard. And once you win, everyone will tell you how lucky you are. Yeah. It's so fucking true, dude. And, and talking about the thing and doing the thing, vie for the same resources. So you need to allocate yours appropriately. Like literally, if you talk about this, I'm sure you've come across this in neuroscience. If you talk about the thing, it gives you pings of reward in the same way as if you'd done it. And yeah, so few people are operators. Like this is what I learned in nightlife, like club promo. So few people can actually do what you need to do in order to become successful.

30:01And that's not some unbelievable level of talent. It's just actually doing the fucking work on a consistent basis. It is so rare. And that's why people tend to be serial successes and people tend to be serial failures because the transferable skill of here is a thing that needs to be done. Here are the ways to do it. And I show up and do those things. Like when I think back to the start of modern wisdom, there was days in 2018 where we did zero plays. Like we'd done multiple weeks of episodes and we had zero, like a full day with no plays. And then I ruptured my Achilles at the back end of 2020 and constructed a special recording setup where I could have my foot still elevated above my heart so that I could still, and then a mic that came in like this so that I could still record podcast episodes with my foot like behind the gas.

30:51It was like blowjob camp, like straight from my crotch. And that was the level of dedication that I had to this. I remember I spoke to this girl at a breathwork class back end of last year, and she hadn't seen me since I first moved to Austin like four years ago. And she said, so great to see you. Are you still doing those ads? What do you mean? He says, well, we were talking a few years ago, and I remember we used to invite you on nights out to, to like come and meet new people in, in this city and country that you'd just moved to. And you'd send me these like photos of some audio software. And you were saying, and it was like 11 o 'clock at night and you were saying something about ads.

31:36And I was like, Oh fuck. I forgot that I recorded a fresh ad read on audio three times per episode for every episode for 600 episodes. Like before we had dynamic insertion where you can pre-record it and then slot it in. I did like 2000 ad reads. That was the finished ad read. Think about how many times I failed, like 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food sourced ingredients, including a multivitamin, multimineral, pre - and probiotic, plus all the green super. It's like fucking seared into my brain. And that's because at 12 o 'clock at night, even though I was getting invited to go out, I was like, if I want to afford to live in this country that I've said is my dream, I need to do the ads and the ads aren't that expensive, which means that I need to do three of them and I need to make sure they perform well.

32:26So I'm going to rerecord them each time. So I keep the sponsors happy. So I have a great relationship with the sponsors and I'm going to do it at 12 o 'clock at night because I don't have anyone else to do it. It's me, my editor and a Mormon assistant in a Facebook messenger group chat. And that is like 600 episodes and fucking 2 million subs. I'm like, okay, that's just what it needs. That's what needs to happen in order to get there. The one thing that I wish that I'd done, and I know that Alex feels the same, like I can give a nod to this like member of royalty over the far side. I know that Alex feels the same is I wish that I'd captured more content in the beginning.

33:00I wish that I'd captured more stuff in the first one year, two years. And I guess in some ways it's kind of cool because everything that you make is put out online. It's not the same. Like if you're an artist, like you should have your first pieces of art that were shit. But more of the behind the scenes of what it was like, of what the shitty Riggs recording setup and like the sleeping on the couch. Because I, you know, Maisie Williams from Game of Thrones, I heard this interview with her and I think she was Arya Stark at like 10 years old or something in season one of Game of Thrones, super young.

33:34So it was basically all of her childhood. is her being in this incredibly complicated production. Yeah. And somebody asked her, what do you wish that you'd done? She said, well, I started journaling in season four, but I can't remember what it was like in season one, two, and three. And I really wish that I had. I really wish that I had that for myself. I wish I had those memories. And I also wish that I was able to sort of show other people what it was like in the beginning. That's interesting because with me, I do have the documentation. At least I have the documentation of what I post. I didn't document when I would say the same thing a hundred times before I would be cool enough to post it.

34:10But yeah, specifically on my, on my YouTube, I have videos that it's funny while I was making it, I would tell myself I was like 10 years down the line. This is what I'm going to look back. And I'm going to be showing people on like a yacht or something like, guys, this is where I started from, you know? Cause like my YouTube videos, they're, they're so like, it's so like, okay, this guy's on the bottom right now, just literally trying to work his way up, being consistent every single day. But yeah, it's interesting to cope that people have specifically as it relates to success or, you know, sort of leveling up in life.

34:43Doesn't matter what you're pursuing, but I've been, I think that's the, one of the top things I've been getting flack for online is I truly believe if you live in America, it does not matter how far on the bottom you are. I believe that anyone is capable of clawing their way up the ladder. I'm not saying you're going to go all the way to the top, but you can go from the absolute bottom to at least bare minimum middle. If you really have the agency to do it, there's a, there's like a old, I don't know if it's like a news interview with Morgan Freeman and he, do you know what I'm talking about? And he was like, the interviewer was, I think it was like a white person telling him something about black people, how oppressed they are like how oppressed they are like how they can't get to his position and he he literally goes bullshit and they're like what do you mean he's like he's like bullshit look at me like look at look at denzel look at obama look at all these people and i started to realize i was like you really have to just be viciously consistent and it's going to take a very long period of time and granted i i was fortunate growing up i grew up in a working class family.

35:55I never had to worry about paying the bills. So I 100 % recognize the privilege that I've had. But then I was out on my own sleeping on a carpet, literally not even a couch, a carpet a year ago today. And now I'm on this podcast. Did that happen out of thin air? I'm a little bit confused there. But I do have sympathy for these people. But I think this is a very, it's a pain point that people don't like to be called out on. If you in any way sort of, and for me it's not even necessarily criticism so much as I believe in them I wish they would believe in them as much as I believe in them you know people are like I'm not capable of doing this there's an old study that was done where they took a bunch of women and they said hey we want to we want to test or figure out whether or not that people with facial disfigurements get any type of oppression are you familiar with this study yeah the Dartmouth scar experiment exactly Yeah.

36:50So they basically put makeup on them and they said, yeah, let us know if, if you fell in any way, discriminate it, discriminated against in this interview you're going into. And they had like high end makeup. They put it on their face and these girls saw in the mirror. They're like, oh yeah, I have it. And then right before they go in, they're like, Hey, we just need to touch it up a little bit. They take it off. They don't know that they go in and, you know, at the end they reported that they felt like they were discriminated against. And more than that, they could, you know, point out a specific thing that the interviewer said that they thought was referencing, you know, the scar on their face.

37:20And it really shows you the power of belief. I'm not saying oppression doesn't exist, but what I am saying is a lot of it can be self-inflicted for sure. People genuinely are told by the media, and this is what's so dangerous. It's so dangerous. If everyone in the media is telling you that, oh, because you aren't an EPO baby, that you can't make it, you're going to believe that, you're going to internalize that, and subconsciously that's going to dictate the way that you move about the world. And that's such a dangerous talking point. And I understand why it exists because they're trying to be sympathetic.

37:49And I get that. But once again, you got to have the agency. You got to have the discipline to be like, fuck that. I'm going to bet on myself and I think that I can do it. And I wish these people would have a similar view about that. Granted, not all of them. I mean, how many examples are there of people that have gone from nothing to something? There's simply too many, at least in America, that you could sit here and say it's literally impossible. It's very difficult. I'm not denying that, but you can't say it's impossible. This episode is brought to you by Gymshark. If you're going to spend an hour in the gym, you might as well look hot and feel comfortable while you're doing it.

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38:55Basically, everything they sell is unbelievable, well-designed, high quality, and you get 30-day free returns globally with global shipping, plus a 10 % discount site-wide. Right now, you can get 10 % off everything by going to the link in the description below, heading to jim.sh slash modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom10 at checkout. That's jim.sh slash modernwisdom at modernwisdom10 at checkout. If you had disadvantages, I agree with you. You are right. It's harder to be successful if X happened to you. Replace X with gender, race, birth, deformity, different language, different country, abuse, etc.

39:31The main point of the longer conversation is that despite the disadvantage, you only have one choice. What are you going to do about it? Number one take action anyway and become proof to other people like you Your people also born into or abused into this tragedy that you were that they too can overcome it Number two blame and complain and to be clear You can do whatever you want. I support your choice But only one of those decisions will make you better and I wish I could say this without getting attacked But you know who wins by you not being successful? Whoever or whatever you blame and fuck them or fuck that, you can lead a rebellion of one and blame the one thing that you can control, which is you.

40:14In your mind, redefine the word blame as give power to. And when you do that, there's only one person you're gonna wanna give more power to and that's you. For everyone who's had shitty circumstances, I'm on your side, your long-term side, the side that wants you to win. So do it anyways with all the disadvantages and still tell them to shove it and win. I want to be clear again. If you had tough shit happen to you, it sucks and it's not your fault. But now what? Where do we go? My two cents. Win anyway. And prove that you can win even when the chips are stacked against you or you're dealt a lousy hand.

40:50Because we can't get dealt a new hand, we've got to play the cards that we've got rather than hoping the dealer rules in our favor. So again, what are you going to do with your shit hand? The only thing possible. You play it the best you can. Oh, Mosey. Fucking slammer, dude. That's almost like a modern day Marcus Aurelius quote. That sounds like. Yeah, it's a little bit. It's updated for 2026. But I mean, that's, I understand that there is this line that needs to be walked, which is if somebody's been through a lot of shit, not recognizing that feels callous. Yeah. And uncaring and unempathetic.

41:25and yet if you look at what the real world impact of that is do those people really want to be coddled if they want to get out of this thing probably not and when you realize that there is a self-fulfilling prophecy in telling people that because of your x disadvantage you're not going to be able to do this thing what is meant as empathy ends up being restriction and i don't You know, I, again, like you, like not salubrious, but perfectly fine upbringing. But no, like given no objective advantages, the fact that there are people who have had it worse doesn't negate the fact that most people, most people exist in the middle of the bell curve.

42:15Yeah. Like they didn't grow up with extreme abuse, in extreme poverty, with the birth disfigurement. Like most people, and this is what becomes really pernicious, you can use, look at these people at the bottom end of the tail. You're not sufficiently recognizing their level of disadvantage. And that gets like concept creeped out to include earlier parts of the tail as well. And then actually bits of the bell curve in the middle. Does that make sense? Well, like people who haven't had those disadvantages pattern match themselves with the people who have. And they take on board that sympathy as a self-fulfilling prophecy of restriction.

42:57You're like, oh, that's me. And this is one of the reasons that for a long time, everyone's been real worried about pedestalizing victimhood because it turns the value system upside down. It says that being the most oppressed is actually the position that you want to try and be in because success is something that is only achieved through oppression and victimhood is more noble in some ways. which is it's incentivizing people in this very pernicious like

43:32presenting as pro-social but functioning as like a speed governor on a car yep if you're a parent and you have a kid and your kid does something that isn't good do you say oh that's okay Like you'll, you'll get it next time or it's okay. Like you're a kid. Or do you tell your kid, Hey, that's not how a good human operates and we need to do better than that. And, and, and do you give them constructive criticism? Well, if you're a good parent, you give them constructive criticism. Now at that time, is the kid going to like it when you tell them they can't do it? Absolutely not. But why do parents do it?

44:12Because they love their kids and they're going to do the thing that's going to make them uncomfortable. And maybe they're out in public and their kid's going to throw a fit, but they have to do it because they love their kids. And the only way that you can help someone grow is by, unfortunately, pointing out a lot of their faults. It's not the only way, but it's essential. And so I look at, it's like, I call it, and this isn't my original phrase, suicidal empathy, where people are like, oh, I'm going to empathize with this person who has self-destructive habits. And I'm going to say that it's okay.

44:43Why? Because that's the culture, that's the narrative that we live in. Everything everyone does is okay. There's nothing that is not allowed except for you telling me that there's something not allowed. And then all of a sudden, you know, 10, 20 years goes down the line. This person doesn't have the life that they want. They still have these self-destructive habits that are causing to some extent their inability to succeed. And then they're like, oh, it's the system. It's let me, let me place the blame on everyone else. Again, if you were a parent, you loved your kid, would you not criticize them out of a place of love?

45:15I think that you would, I think that you would. And you have to do that as a friend. You have to do that as a peer. You have to do that as a member of society. But the problem is, it's a story as old as time, everyone's going to hate you. Everyone's going to hate you. Everyone wants to live in their own little world that everybody else is against them. And are you familiar with Nietzsche's idea of resenting man the slave and master morality? No, tell me. So Nietzsche basically believed, and I agree with him that, we'll apply it to modern day context, poor and middle class people, not all of them, but some of them, they seem to be obsessed with the concept of morality and virtue.

45:54And it's not that morality or virtue are bad, but they weren't able to get external success. They weren't able to get money. They weren't able to get the good wife, whatever, the nice house. So they don't really have the life that they want. And so what they do is they move the goalposts from external success to internal virtue, which they conveniently get to define. So now I don't have to win in life. Instead, what I can do is I can just say, oh, but I'm a good person. Who defines what a good person is? You, because it's subjective to you. So it's almost like a free cop-out. Now, I'm not saying by any means that you shouldn't want to be a good person or that virtue and character aren't.

46:32I feel like my dad's going to listen to this and he's going to be like, oh my gosh, yeah, what are you saying? Shout out Jed's dad. Yeah, shout out my dad. But you have to understand that people are constantly coping. It's subconscious. They're not even aware of it. And then for me, I just can't stand these people because they're so obsessed with morality and virtue. And they're like, I hate all these people. When it's like, I don't think you're aware that what you're doing is just because you couldn't get the external success. I'm not saying external success is everything in life, right? There's nuance to this, of course.

47:03But Nietzsche recognized this. He realized that it's like, hey, these people, they're kind of just making up some bullshit to make themselves feel better. And that's what happens. And I mean, I'm a Christian myself, but a lot of Christians do this where they're like, oh, you know, people online say that Jesus is the personification of slave morality. You know, they have resentment built up against the people that are successful, then they switch, they get to choose what's actually right. But the thing is, is that Jesus is not slave morality at all because slave morality comes from a place of resentment and Jesus didn't have resentment.

47:38So I really hate that narrative online, but it's like, you'll, you, I will admit that you see this a lot in Christian communities or whatever, where they're kind of be like, ah, like, you know, it's, it's harder for surely. I tell you that it's harder to get into the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to walk through a needle, whatever that Bible verse is. And they're like, you shouldn't get money. Like that's anti-Christian. And it's like, well, you could do amazing things with money. You can help people with money. It's not inherently, yeah it's cope it's cope it's cope so the problem is you go online you say that you are it's funny because i've posted a few videos on this over the over my time on social media and every time i get stitched a hundred times everyone's like you know fuck this guy jett out of touch yeah and it's funny because they'll be like you know you'll get a comment he actually thought we were going to agree with him no i i didn't think you were going to agree with me i was just willing to say what needed to be said but these people are it's just everywhere you go you see, cope, cope, cope.

48:32I used to be that guy. That's how I know. Right. And I'm not saying everyone does this. I'm not saying everyone that is concerned about being a good person is doing it out of resentment for people that have external success. I'm not saying that at all, but a very large percentage of them surely are. It's such a cheap shot as well. It's so predictable before you look at the comment section, you can already see like, this is out of touch. He doesn't understand. He thinks that the only thing that matters is materialism. And yeah, Yeah, there's this idea from Isaiah Berlin called the inner citadel.

49:03Familiar with that? Very similar to what you're talking about. So he says when the path to human fulfillment is blocked, we retreat into ourselves, into a kind of inner citadel where we're walled off against all of the fearful ills of the world and we make our own laws. So an example of this would be your leg gets injured in a battle and you have the choice to either try and rehabilitate the leg. But if you can't rehabilitate the leg, then you cut your leg off and denounce that the desire for legs is misguided and must be subdued. Yeah. Yeah. Like this, we see it everywhere. People that say weight has no bearing on health because they've struggled to lose weight.

49:40People who say that jobs are for suckers because they've struggled to hold one down and they turn to a life of crime. People who have been cheated on and found it difficult to get a relationship to work. So they turn to polyamory or they become incels. Like at each of these different I guess it would be vol cells. At each of these different junctures, what somebody is doing is saying the world's denied me that which I want. I'm going to rewrite the rules, retreat into myself so that I no longer need to face the reality that I could get it if I did something different. And again, there's two very, very unpopular things to talk about online.

50:18There's many, but like two that are kind of reliable philosophically. One of them is that, and the other is the arrival fallacy. If you say the view from the top of the mountain that you're climbing up is not going to be as satisfying as you think it is. You sound like a fat guy at a buffet telling someone who's starving that food doesn't taste that good. Like you suck the engine out of them and the oxygen gets pulled out of the room. It's seen as like bourgeois. It's seen as judgmental, as opulent. And rightly so. You, a person who has the thing that I want, are telling me, a person who doesn't have that thing and wants it, that the thing I want won't satisfy me.

50:56But how many people that have got a problem with their self-worth or a scarcity mindset reach some level of success or fame or monetary notoriety and then go, oh man, all my inner problems were solved. It was so great. So one of two things is happening with that, which is the first one it is true that when you achieve something that you try to fill an internal void with an external success it's not going to reliably work yeah the other one is that everybody that reaches a level of success is part of some weird cult cabal that's all cartelling to convince other people to like pull the ladder up after them so that they it's like no one else can win exactly exactly it's like oh it's not that good i'm fucking idiot yeah like no that's obviously not the case.

51:49It's obviously the case that people can't fill internal voids with external accolades. Yeah. And this is like you're saying, it's anytime that you'll see an interview with a really successful person, this seems to be a common trend where they'll say, you know, the favorite days of my life were when I was going through the struggle, when I was, you know, building every single day, was unsure whether or not I was going to make it because that made me who I am. Or, you know, they'll say like, wow, like it really was the journey the whole time. I've said this before. I think winning a championship as a professional athlete has to be literally one of the most underwhelming feelings ever because you just worked however, whatever percentage of your life, this was your main goal or so at least they say.

52:31And all of a sudden you have it, but now you have this thing and it's okay. My life is the same. it's like are you familiar with Lacan's theory of desire so in order to desire something the object of obsession must be perpetually absent you can't have that thing because the moment you have it you can no longer want it this is this can apply to anything in life relationships is the biggest one this is why it's people are always talking about why is it that like right when I express to this girl that I'm interested or tell this guy that I like him it seems like they pull away well because now they know they have you and it's not really you know that fantasy in their head.

53:07Well, the same concept sort of applies when you have this big goal and you want it and you're convincing yourself like that's going to be the thing. And it never is. And this is, I've never really seen an interview where I felt like the successful person was being genuine, where they didn't in some way, shape or form acknowledge that if they were asked. But it all goes back down to Albert Camus has this quote, it's the end of the myth of Sisyphus. I'm paraphrasing here, but he says the struggle towards heights is enough to fill any man's heart. And he's basically like, it's literally the journey.

53:39It is Sisyphus relentlessly pushing that boulder up. He knows he's never going to get it to the top, but it's the process of pushing that boulder up. That's everything. When you think about life, if your life is a timeline, right? Well, let's say you start going towards your goals when you're 18 years old, or maybe 22 when you graduate college. So you have like 22 if you're lucky you live till 75 80, but probably you're gonna tap out at like 60 So 99.9 % of like actual time the metric of time is going to be chasing the thing And then you're gonna get it So why in the world would it make sense to just be like?

54:18Oh, I can only enjoy myself once i'm there because You won the cosmic lottery to be alive, right? It's like one in 43 trillion or something like you're winning the lottery multiple times to just be alive. And so why would you then be like, oh, I'm only going to do what I have to do to enjoy a 0.00001 % of my life to be like, oh, I did it. And then probably after that, you might be underwhelmed or depressed or something like that. I think you need to enjoy that 99.9%. And that is enough to fill a man's heart. From the meditation retreat, one of the biggest takeaways I had was, for many of us, goals are contracts to self-criticize until we succeed.

54:55Like running away from a monster that never gets tired. This contract makes permanent success necessary to avoid being swallowed by misery. Like desire is a contract that you make with yourself to be unhappy until you get what you want. And yeah, you're right. Almost all of your time is going to be in the pursuit. And what that means is you are going to be underwhelmed. Before we continue, most people in their thirties are still training hard. Their protein is dialed in. They sleep better than they did in their 20s. Discipline is not the issue, but recovery feels somewhat different. Strength gains take a little longer.

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56:01It's not about pushing harder, it's about actually supporting the cellular machinery underneath your training. If you care about staying strong into your 30s, 40s, and 50s and beyond, this is foundational. Best of all, there is a 30-day money-back guarantee, plus free shipping in the US, and they ship internationally. and right now you can get up to 20 % off by going to the link in the description below or heading to timeline.com slash modern wisdom and using the code modern wisdom at checkout that's timeline.com slash modern wisdom and modern wisdom at checkout have you ever seen uh scotty scheffler the golfer talk about what happens when he won the championship that's one of the few pattern breaks yes in somebody winning i know exactly what you're talking i made a video on it i know i know exactly what you're talking about fucking awesome so yeah i mean he wins the masters or a grand slam perhaps some huge illustrious title and he gets to do the press juncture at the end and he's sitting down and everyone's going to like how's this going to be like how does this feel and yeah he he has a slightly surprising response end of the day it's like i'm not out here to inspire the next generation of golfers.

57:13I don't, I'm not here to inspire somebody else to be the best player in the world because what's the point? You know, this is not a fulfilling life. It's, it's fulfilling from a sense of accomplishment, but it's not fulfilling from a sense of like the deepest, you know, places of your heart. You know, there's a lot of people that make it to what they thought was going to fulfill them in life. And then you get there and all of a sudden you get to number one in the world and then they're like, what's the point? And, you know, I really do believe that because what is the point? Perhaps if you could be satisfied simply by hitting the goal, you would kill yourself.

57:48That's the most Jet Franzen response to that video. But you're not far off, right? Like the reason that the arrival fallacy exists and the reason that we have hedonic adaptation is that if the first time you had sex, you were done with sex for the rest of your life. Or the first time that you killed a deer, you would be satisfied with that. you wouldn't be chasing the next piece of progress. There's this dukkha, D-U-K-K-H-A. It's this line from the Buddha, and a lot of people hear, life is unhappiness, is one of the translations of this. But dukkha can actually be translated as unsatisfactoriness.

58:34so it's not sorry uh life is suffering like life is suffering is the line from the buddha but it can also duke could also be translated as life is unsatisfactoriness like yeah morgan housel has this story about when him and his family went away on holiday and he'd been planning this trip for ages and it was the first one that him and his wife had got to do with the kids and they they knew exactly where they were going to sit at this resort they they looked at the menu in advance. They knew what drinks they wanted to get. They'd done everything. And they arrived and they sat down the first night and he thought about what the experience was like.

59:11And he's like, well, the drink was nice, but there was like a little bit too much ice in it. And I probably should have got it blended as opposed to, as opposed to on the rocks. And like, it was really beautiful. The table that we chose was great, but like there was some sand between my feet and that sort of was irritating a bit. And I, I look, the veal was lovely, but the salmon also could have been a little bit better and then he walks out onto the balcony and he has this thought like as they've arrived the first day that they're there he's like this is so great we should come back here next year like immediately in the process of enjoying the thing he's already moving the goalposts to the next thing the experience is unsatisfactory and the uh enjoyment of the thing is primarily based around recreating the anticipation of it again during the experience of it it's kind of deranged you know I was I a couple months ago I went out to eat dinner and I ordered a steak and they gave me a chicken and I was happy that they gave me the chicken because I was like wow I was like expecting the steak and I just got a chicken which is like a curveball and I started to realize that this is like your the ability my my uh my sophomore year AP US history teacher always said this quote, roll with the punches.

1:00:24You've probably heard that before. Roll with the punches, guys. Roll with the punches. But truly, that's one of the best skills to develop or personality traits. I don't know if it's genetic, but your ability to just go with the flow makes things so much better. I come from a very anxious family. My family's very anxious. They like to plan everything in advance and love them to death. But sometimes it's like, wow, I feel like we're suffocating the experience. And it's one of those things where it's like, if you just kind of let it happen, then you're going to like it more. My brother is not a very anxious person.

1:01:01And I always find that like being just in the presence of my brother, when you're like going and doing things relaxes you. And it's just like better. It's like, if I could have anybody on a road trip with me, it'd be my brother. Cause he's just, let me just go with the flow. It's not too serious. he just he's very practical about the way that he approaches things and yeah i think life you just i don't know the expectations and wanting something to be a certain way it kills it and suffering lives so you have the expectation of how the world should be and which is personal to you and the reality of the world the delta between those two points that's where suffering lives because you're like well it was supposed to be like this and it wasn't like that And so in other words, if you can just eliminate the expectations, which in all fairness, you probably can eliminate expectations, but you can at least lower your expectations, you'll be pleasantly surprised a lot of the time.

1:01:52It's only suffering for as long as reality under delivers on your expectations. If reality over delivers on your expectations, that's pleasure. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I mean, low expectations are kind of the key to a good life, but also it's a revolutionary thing to say in the modern world, I'm good with that or I'm satisfied. That's good enough for me. Like satisfaction is kind of seen as surrender.

1:02:22That's, again, creating this inverted motivation. It's not biological to us, I'll tell you that much. Are you familiar with the hedonic treadmill? Yeah. So it's like, when I found out about the hedonic treadmill, so much of life just made sense to me right there. Because I was like, everything has to regress to the meat. It has to. So think about our ancestors, right? A lot of our ancestors lived in tribes and they would hunt for game to get the food that they would need to survive. Let's say you fought a bear. You and some of the other men of the village went out, fought a bear. That's a huge achievement.

1:02:57That's like awesome. You're probably, you probably have, you're high on life at that point, right? You just killed a bear and now your village has meat or whatever and you're feeling really good. It's like, so what, you're just going to put your guard down now? Like you're just, that's it? And so then you would not care. And then all of a sudden, you know, there's infinite amount of predators out in the world and then they would just come along and fucks you up. Exactly. And so you, you literally have to regress back to the, like so many people, I'm sure people ask you this. It's like, Oh, what's it like having so many followers?

1:03:26And it's like, dude, I don't know why, but when I had less than a thousand followers and I gained two, three followers in a day, that almost felt better than right now where I'm, you know, getting thousands of followers a day. And it's like, that's just how it goes. It has to rest the mean. It's, you know, the easiest metaphor, or whatever you want to call it, is like developing tolerance for drugs. Like eventually you're just, it's not going to be enough. You just need to keep pushing it more and more. Well, the ruthless thing I think about people that are competent and that drive themselves is that every new level of success becomes the minimum level of acceptable performance moving forward.

1:03:59So this is the curse of competence. If you're good at things and you regularly do well, then success doesn't become a cause for celebration. It's simply the minimum baseline entry that you're allowed to pursue. Like anything less than success would be failure and success itself becomes nothing more than acceptable. Like that, there's a line from a John Bellion and Luke Combs song, which is, uh, if the higher I climb, it's the further I fall, then why love anything at all? And he's talking about falling in love with somebody and opening himself up. But I think the same thing's true for a lot of people in pursuits.

1:04:36And it sounds very morbid. Like I'm aware that this sounds morbid, but it's good because you do existentialism and I'm British. So it's kind of the same thing. But a lot of the time, I realized this last year, this podcast is the eighth biggest podcast in the world. Eighth biggest in the world. Spotify chart last year. Fucking unbelievable, right? Spotify wrapped. I wake up one day, we found out one day before and I'm like, holy fuck, that is insane. Just so fucking insane to be this guy who's not been a part of a network who's never taken money from outside investment who started it in his bedroom and still does it with the same editor he had eight years ago to get to that point is so phenomenal and that lasted for about half an hour and then this thought crept in which was dude if i'm if i'm not in the top 10 next year i might as well kill myself yeah like eighth would be just about okay seventh would be good but presumably only for about half an hour before i realized that was a new baseline and if i'm not in the top 10 then it's a failure yeah Yeah, that's the same way other people will perceive you as well.

1:05:38Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jimmy Carr's got this fucking wonderful line where he says, trajectory is more important than position. So if you are number 300th in the world, but last year you were number 600th, people are like, wow, dude, you're on there. Things are moving right. But if you're third in the world last year being first, that is almost toxic. And I think a big part of it is that we have such recency bias. We can only really remember what's going on. We also want to be someone that's moving in the right direction has to be popular in the moment. And there's always this sense, there's a kind of like nepotism, I suppose, or like inheriting daddy's money.

1:06:14There's this sense that if it hasn't happened recently, maybe the underlying signals that are supposed to be the reliable indicator that you're good at doing the thing, maybe they've fallen away. I've been fascinated, obviously, because of this this number eight in the world thing last year. And, and that creates a new kind of pressure, a different kind of pressure. But I've been fascinated about the difference between having never made it and having fallen off the perception of those two things. And the gold medalist syndrome is exactly that gold medalist syndrome is having fallen off. And I think I'm sure you've seen the studies that say, uh, bronze medalists are happier than silver medalists.

1:06:55Yeah. Yeah. Which is just fucking hilarious. Like just about nearly being there and not getting it. Yeah. Is worse than being a few, a few steps away. Exactly. Yeah. Well, first off, congrats on number eight in the world, bro. That's like ridiculously impressive, especially like you were saying, you started on your own. You didn't take money from outside investors, which is huge. Are you familiar with our author Schopenhauer's the will to live, the will of life. So the will is basically, it's almost like this metaphysical part inside of you that it creates your desires. He argued that you're not the one that creates your desires.

1:07:34It's just created by the will. And then you sort of recognize those desires or you realize that they exist. And then this sort of subtly dictates the decisions that you make in your life. And the will is not concerned about you being happy at all. As a matter of fact, he does argue that happiness is a temporary state. You cannot always be happy. And happiness, even when you do get it, it's very short, short-lived happiness. And it's really because the will just wants more and more and more. And the desire of the will, it just wants to replicate itself. So that's like drawing you to have sex and reproduce.

1:08:12And basically the will is just telling you, oh, you got to do all these things and just relentlessly pushes the goalpost more and more. And that's why author Schopenhauer is widely regarded as a pessimist. People say, if you're going to get into philosophy, don't start by reading him. That's a very interesting talking point to me. It seems like the internet hates pessimism, which I understand why. You don't want to be around negativity. It's a bone killer. Yeah. But you got to acknowledge that to some extent, there's a lot of truth behind some of the talking points in relation to pessimism. And that's what I tried to, I tackle that idea on my YouTube channel, but yeah, even people will be like, oh, Jet Franz, he's a doomer.

1:08:52He hates all this stuff, even though at the end of my videos, I'll try to be like, okay, but - Have an uplifting uncle. Exactly, exactly. Have you looked at instrumental goods versus ultimate goods? Maybe. That stinks of a video that you should do. I'm putting a request into the DJ for you to do. So instrumental goods doing something for something. Yes. Ultimate goods doing something for itself. Yeah. And if you ask the why do you do that thing for any pursuit, eventually you get to an ultimate good, right? And typically it's something like to feel peaceful, to feel happy, to be loved, to be enough, to be able to rest.

1:09:30But instrumental goods are why do you get up and go to the gym? Well, to have a good body. Why do you want a good body? It makes me feel fit. Well, why do you want to feel fit? And you just keep on going down, down, down, down, down to something close to an ultimate good. and my concern for a lot of people including myself is that we live instrumental lives our entire lives are instrumental yeah we are doing the thing to do the thing to get the thing to do the thing to get as opposed to a radically revolutionary belief which is maybe i can just sidestep all of this and go straight to the ultimate like what is the what is the feeling that I'm trying to get.

1:10:08And typically it's a feeling. And this is another idea that I've been so fucking obsessed with. And it came out of the meditation retreat last week that

1:10:21if as a guy, you pray at the altar of fuck your feelings, just work harder, how can you be surprised when you achieve what you don't feel? Yeah. Like the route that has gotten you there, the fuel that has arrived you at the destination has robbed you of the satisfaction of being there. And that to me is just, it's this game. It's this game that's always going to be played. And what we've done, I'm going to sound incredibly left-wing here, in modern society with the meritocracy and capitalism is we've encoded, we have canonized and created an architecture of pushing the hedonic adaptation button as much as possible.

1:11:05It's an instrumental life. It is an instrumental life. Why do you want the next rung on the job ladder? Why is it that you want that? Well, a bigger paycheck, and I'm going to get more respect from people. And it's like, well, what are you sacrificing? Oh, I'm going to be homeless with my kids, and my relationship might suffer, and I'll sleep worse, and my health might degrade. But like, you know, the thing, like, what about the thing? And yeah, it is radically revolutionary to just go, fuck it, like, I'm good. I'm good, I like this, I like where I'm at. the scariest place to be. And this is what, this is my biggest fear.

1:11:40I'm absolutely horrified of it is waiting all day for 5 PM all week for Friday. You wait each summer for the winter and so on and so forth. It's like, you've probably heard those people say, Oh, you know, once I, once I graduate high school, then I'll be away from my parents and I can do what I want. Oh, well now I'm in, I just got, I just got to finish college. I finished college up and then you know what, I'm going to go travel the world. But you know what? Then they graduate college. I got to work on my career right now. I just, and it's, there's always something, there's always something. And then you never live your life.

1:12:12And there is a talking point online where people will say, happiness is just not wanting any moment to be anything other than what it is. Not wanting things to be different. Yeah. You're not stuck in the past. You're not anxious about the future. You're fully accepting the moment. If you go outside and there's construction and it's like really loud, this goes back to what we were talking about before. It's like you had the expectation that there was a world that existed that there wouldn't be construction. And the fact that there is construction, the delta between those two points, that's where you're suffering and you're getting pissed off.

1:12:45You know what's an interesting indicator, early indicator of this? How much somebody complains. Somebody who complains a lot is basically admitting that they have a poor model of reality. Yes. Why is there all of this traffic? Because reality has traffic. Yeah. And your model of the world was a reality that didn't have traffic. Your model of the world is wrong. Reality is undefeated. Yes. It's a million and oh, a million knockouts. Yes. Reality is undefeated. Most people don't realize how much being dehydrated impacts their performance, which is why for the last five years, I've started pretty much every morning with Element.

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1:13:50Plus, they offer free shipping in the US. Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below are heading to drinklmnt.com slash modernwisdom. That's drinklmnt.com slash modernwisdom. There's this little essay that I want to read to you. Don't wait. Life is happening right now. I've become obsessed with the belief that life's duties will one day be out of the way and then you can finally start doing the thing you want to and living your life. It's a myth. It's a lie. Marie-Louise von Franz talks about the provisional life.

1:14:23She says, there is a strange feeling that one is not yet in real life. For the time being, one is doing this or that. There is always the fantasy that sometime in the future, the real thing will come about. Similar to another idea called deferred happiness syndrome. The common feeling that your life has not begun. That your present reality is a mere prelude to some idyllic future. This idyll is a mirage that'll fade as you approach. Revealing that the prelude you rushed through was in fact the one to your death. It's strange. I regularly have this sense of foreboding and guilt about time slipping away.

1:14:56that I'm not making enough of my days, especially when I look back on a week and I know that I've done things and dedicated myself to pursuits and working hard, but I can't fully recall how I spent my time. So I worry that this is just a one-week microcosm of how I look back on my entire life. There's time having passed, but me not really noticing it, of existence occurring, but living, not actually having got going. Wow. You know, when I was in later years of high school, And I was trying to save up money for college. So I picked up all these jobs. One of the jobs I picked up was that stereotypical factory job.

1:15:36And I was in Chicago. It's middle of winter, freezing. I'm working the graveyard shift. So middle of the night. and I worked this job and I remember I would sit there and I'd be like pissed off because all my peers, all the people that I knew, none of them were working a fraction as hard as me. And I knew their parents were going to pay for their college or whatever it is. They were living life up. That's the temptation of the victim mindset. Yeah, exactly. And so, well, I felt I was the victim mindset because I would be, it would be 1am and I'm in this trailer lifting heavy boxes. It's like 30 degrees in this trip, because they literally don't have heaters.

1:16:14And I'm like, life just sucks, man. Like, I'm just like sitting there. I'm like, why does this got to happen? Whatever. And there was every once, most of the time you'd be alone, but every once in a while you'd work with another person in this, I became friends with this other guy and me and him, it was like the double the victim mindset, but he was kind of playful with it, which I liked. He was like, you know, life is so fucked. And then we'd joke about how fucked it was or whatever. And, you know, I remember like sitting there and I, and I built up resentment because I was like, man, these other people, they're not working as hard as me.

1:16:43I'm, I'm just trying so much more than them. And yeah. And that went on for, for years. And that wasn't the only job I had. I was working three jobs over the summer. I was just constantly doing stuff. And then we get to college and these people, I had better grades than them and they would go to a nicer school because they could afford it. And I'm like, man, man, I really keep drawing the short end of the stick. Joe Rogan, he has this, this one clip. I don't think it's like viral or anything, but he's like, he's like those people that always say, I can't catch a break. He's like, you need to get away from those people.

1:17:11I can tell you as someone who used to be that person, you need to get away from those people. Cause like you're saying, if you complain that this is all of a sudden you're just making your life worse. And then I eventually I ended up, it was super cliche, but ended up reading meditations by Marcus Aurelius. And I was like, wow, like this is, this is incredible. The ancient clean your room by Jordan Peterson. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, okay. And then event like, you know, and I sort of was that way for a while. I mean, it was years. It wasn't like I just flipped a switch and boom, now I'm not victim mindset anymore.

1:17:44It was, well, let me take a hard look on my life. I have no friends. I have nothing going for me. I'm just going to school, minding my business, and that's it. Okay, we need to make some sort of change. And to amplify this, what makes everything so much worse is that for millennia, the only people you compared yourself to were the other people in your tribe, right? You couldn't know what was going on with Kelsey when she was studying. Like you didn't know. We didn't have Instagram. You didn't know what was going on in the fucking Valley Over. Exactly. It's a 30-person pod in 150-person Dunbar group.

1:18:15That's it. Exactly. And so what's happened is social media just rapidly hit us. Our brains have not psychologically adapted to comprehend this. So a guy like you, you get millions, potentially billions of views every month. It's like all of a sudden, all these people have opinions on you, but more than that, what do you do? You doom scroll. Everyone doom scrolls to some extent, or you're going online. And what does online feed you? The top 1 % of everyone. You're seeing the most attractive people, the funniest people, the richest people, the most well-spoken, articulate people, and on and on. And then you're like, wow, my life sucks.

1:18:50I was sitting down there and it would be like, Andrew Tate starts getting popular. Like I see the Nelk boys, like everyone just seems to be living this amazing life. And it would really piss me off because you see these degenerates and I was, why do they get that? That's not fair. Like they're not doing anything that's worthy of, you know, making all this money or having all this attention and being in the public eye. And I wanted that and I wanted it bad. And it literally wasn't until I actually let all that go that I was like, you know what? I don't have resentment. I can accept that I am who I am.

1:19:22All of a sudden, all those things started to fall into my lap. And it's like, that's really how it works. I feel like you have to let go, kind of like what we were saying before, because otherwise, in a way, you're paralyzing yourself. You're not going to take action. You're just going to feel bad about yourself and have pity. And if you carry that on through your 20s, through your 30s, all of a sudden, you're going to be 35 years old and look back and be like, wow, I wish I would have had the ability to just accept who I am. But you can't really blame it. I mean, we're the first generation that's had this.

1:19:53So. Can I give you a bit of advice for what I think is going to come next for you? Please. So you've got yourself to the stage now where the wheels will start to spin on their own and there will be a lot of opportunities that will come your way, different things. Maybe I'm going to start a business. You've already got an app, right? Well, I need to run the app. That's important. I need to have a dev team. Like, Like maybe you need to take some outside investment and you'll start to take investor calls and you'll maybe look at acquisition and you'll start to pay a little bit more attention to, well, there's a competing app that's just started.

1:20:25And, well, I need to make a little bit more money because my lifestyle should inflate because I'm growing up. And like I worked at this, like I worked hard. Do you not remember when I was doing the thousand videos and nobody watched? Like I should start to do some sponsors. You'd take sponsor calls. Those will begin to rack up a little bit more, but they'll be worth money. and you'll do the just connect with me dinners and you'll start to make more impressive friends. And one of the things that you need to be incredibly cautious of is not doing the thing that got you here. Now you shouldn't hold on to the working modes that don't serve the principal output.

1:21:00So that's, you don't need to play the game the way that you used to, but there are a few key areas of contribution that if you let those slide, all of the competitive advantage goes. And that for you is likely going to be reading. It's like, if you don't protect your reading time, if you're not constantly feeding yourself with new ideas, you're going to become stale and you're not going to have new stuff to talk about. And what it's going to feel like is growth. It's going to feel like growth because all of the objective metrics are going to continue to expand and continue to get better. But what made you differentiated was this very particular kind of obsession with learning interesting ideas, scrutinizing them, and then communicating them, right?

1:21:46That's kind of it. Like that's the engine. That's the engine that both me and you have used. And maybe you'll get some staff. You need to manage the staff. Like that's kind of, you've got an editor. Ah, fuck, the edit wasn't quite right on that thing. So I need to negotiate with him. And like, he needs his motivation G-ing up, so I'll take him out for dinner. And well, the editor needs an assistant, so I might as well get him. And before you know it, you've built this very unwieldy spaghetti monster. And that's fine, as long as you protect what the main thing was. And the reason I say it is I've noticed as I've sort of swung to and fro on the show, when I've protected the first couple of hours of the day, which is typically when I'll sit and when I'll read, when I'll think about stuff and I might do a little bit of writing, if I just get a few hours, maybe even just one hour, of that, like I'm nourished for the day.

1:22:34I'm continuing to have new ideas. I'm continuing to come up with stuff. Everything feels fresh on the pod and I've got, Oh, that's got fucking Sheffler video. Like, isn't that good? That's something to pull out. Uh, that will be a temptation of growth. And it's a strange kind of paradox that the more leverage you have, the more distractions you have. And that sounds great because it allows you to not need to focus on things, but it can tempt you to not focus on the main thing. And the only thing that matters is keeping that little flame, that sort of kernel that was the beginning of the inspiration.

1:23:05Like that's what's important. And if you do that, dude, you're going to continue to fucking rep. But that's the thing that you need to protect. You have to have to have to protect your reading time. You have to protect your new idea time. Yeah, I appreciate that. I think that makes a lot of like you just saying that. I'm like, yeah, I think you're right. And the reading and the researching was, that was what I think has allowed me from the get-go. I was reading and researching well before I started making videos. And even when I started making videos, I was making more feel-good comedy videos.

1:23:37I wasn't doing philosophy or societal commentary or talking about the implications that X, Y, or Z event has on your life. I was just genuinely a kid that was interested in these things, more so classic books, not even necessarily philosophy. And all of a sudden, it's like, okay, I'm going to talk about this. Let's see if people like it. And then it happened. And so, yeah, that's definitely my roots. So I think you're right. I definitely do need to save time. And it's hard because I've been, you know, started to make a little higher value friends, started to do a little bit of traveling, not a lot, but I'm like, hey, it's easy for me to no longer read or I'm tired on the flight.

1:24:17So I just going to put my head down when that's like a prime opportunity where I can't really do anything else. So, and that's what you would have done in the past. Yeah, exactly. And the limited amount of motivation that you have, which everybody does have, that becomes degraded by having to do things that aren't the main thing. Last year, I did 100 ,000 miles. So it's like three times around the world. This year so far, we're not even, we're just about halfway through the year and I've done like 70 ,000 miles on flights. And like that was not what I was doing when I first started the show. which means that I need to be even more aggressive at protecting some areas of my time at a time when there's more compelling seductions that are going to pull you away.

1:24:58So Alex talks about, you know, the scene in the matrix where Neo is first brought into it and he's walking down the street and there's a woman in the red dress. And Morpheus says, Neo, were you paying attention to me or were you paying attention to the woman in the red dress? And he says, look again, he turns around, it's agent smith with the gun yeah okay being able to say no your capacity to say no is not looking at the woman in the red dress but now imagine as you get more successful that it's not a hypothetical 10 it's a thousand hypothetical one thousands yeah your capacity to say no needs to scale more quickly than your ability to be successful and if you don't get out ahead of it you're going to be seduced by all of these new polls on your time that's fine and that's cool right and it affords you the opportunity to go to the super bowl and and and hang in this special box because someone loves your videos or whatever it is but if you do that too much you will lose the thing that kept you sharp and i think that that's why a kind of monastic lifestyle that you see a lot of sports stars have like even harlan for all of his fun when it comes to pre-season training i bet that guy's a fucking monk yeah like there will not be a stone that's not over but like that's not turned over and looked underneath.

1:26:14And if he was having all of this fun, but not looking after his sleep, not looking after his diet, he's loose when he's able to be loose, but he's not distracted. There's a difference between those two things. And yeah, it's another curse of competence. As you get more effective and there are more opportunities in front of you, you need to learn to be able to say no to something that you would have begged to have had the opportunity to say yes to only two years ago. It's crazy. It's a trip. And I've gotten a little bit of a taste of it already. It's like everybody wants to, I don't know, leech is not the right word because a lot of these people that I've become friends with are much bigger, much more successful than me.

1:26:57Associate. But yeah, it's like the moment that people see that you have some sort of momentum, that's a very attractive trait. Everyone wants to be your friend now. I wasn't even wanting to say antisocial because I try to be social, but I never necessarily fit in my later years of high school through college. And that has been my biggest advantage ever. I would not be sitting here right now if I did not spend all that time alone just really trying to confront myself, trying to be honest with myself and figuring out what I wanted to do and then having the balls to go and start doing it. And that's been my biggest advantage.

1:27:38But now all of a sudden this guy that I looked up to when I was a kid slid into my DMs and he's like, yo, let's go hang out. Let's go do this trip. Yeah. Heroes become rivals and then your rivals become friends. Exactly. And so it's like, wow. Okay. But yeah, for me, like I said, I've just, I gotten so used to being alone that I'm very comfortable with it. But yeah, it's, you're right. It's going to be tempting. If someone's like, Jet, do you want to go to the Superbowl? Yeah, I want to go to the Superbowl. And that happens at a frequency that can end up sapping a lot of what it was that you used to do.

1:28:11But yeah, it is one of the reasons for solace that anybody that's alone should rely on, which is you have an opportunity now to focus on developing yourself in a way that you can't if too many people want you. And one of the weird things, talking as a horrendously unpopular kid and an only child and someone that basically started to learn how to become a human at 18 when I moved to university, I wonder whether it's given you the realization it did for me, which is kind of the fickleness of sociality. that, well, I'm the same person as I was before. The difference is the trappings and the trimmings that are on the outside.

1:28:56And sure, I'm sure you've developed yourself into a more socially fluid person. You've got interesting things to say and you've become more self-conscious and self-aware. And that brings a kind of authentic sincerity and earnestness to a conversation. And that's kind of compelling, right? Like that's beguiling. Like, ooh, like there's something going on here. that's cool which you wouldn't have had before if you were posturing and you were having to play a role and let people kind of have a bit of aversion so some of it will be the development and some of it will be the understanding and the information but a good bit of it is to jets fucking like he's ripping at the most should we invite he should come to the thing with and you go well you didn't fucking want me before yeah you didn't want me before yeah kanye west's got this thing it's like there's a metro booming edit which i've never been able to refine again but um it's kanye west talking about how people say that they loved the work that I did in the beginning, but they didn't love it back then though.

1:29:58Yeah. Yep. Like every time, like I'm cracking you a smile in 2023, but I'm giving you a frown for 2013. And it's just, you know, Ye's vacillated somewhat over the last few years. uh but yeah I mean growing up North Chicago always been the biggest Kanye West fan always like that dude that his concept of self-belief I would literally go to I'm not I'm not even making this up it sounds cringy I would go to sleep with a compilation of Kanye West basically being a narcissist I just I just loved it I just loved the way this guy would talk about himself I'm curious what your thoughts are on that because everybody hates.

1:30:46So narcissism, the way that I look at this is that I think everybody's a narcissist, but it's a spectrum and there's a healthy side of it and there's an unhealthy side of it. And what society calls narcissism or that person's a narcissist, they're specifically referring to the more extreme end of that spectrum where it's dangerous, where you negatively impact other people's lives. But innately, humans are selfish creatures. We always have our own best interest at hand with the exception of maybe, you know, you're a parent. So you're looking out for your kids or a loved one, but I've made videos on this very unpopular as you could assume.

1:31:21And I just think if you lean into your narcissism in a healthy way, which sounds crazy, but that is the ultimate propeller to where you want to go. So imagine you're climbing a mountain and, you know, very metaphorically, the mountain is where you want to go in life. You're wearing a backpack. You could either have an empty backpack, which is just having a neutral sense of self. You could have rocks that are put in the backpack, which is self-doubt or any way that you think that maybe a little bit of imposter syndrome. Oh, I'm not, I'm not that guy. Or you could have self-belief. You could lean into your narcissism in a healthy manner.

1:31:58And that backpack turns into a jet pack and then it propels you up that mountain. And so I've recognized that like growing up, people have always, always been like, Chet, you got, you're a little bit of a narcissist. Not that I would ever negatively impact other people, but it was more like you're very self-absorbed, very self-absorbed. And I said, well, I have to bet on myself. That's the only workable solution. I think it's the only workable solution. You have to lean into every aspect of yourself, build up that belief system. Not that you should walk around saying, wow, I'm more valuable of a human than that person.

1:32:31That's not what I'm talking about at all. But you need to just relentlessly try to increase your self-belief because everything regresses to the mean in life and the mean is your identity, right? And your self-belief creates that identity. And so I think that you have to figure out, okay, what is the healthy narcissism and how do I accomplish that? Because these people that try to be, it's kind of what we were saying before the the really humble ones a lot of them are coping a lot of them are coping for the fact that they didn't go where they wanted to be this is a very unpopular opinion within my family they don't like when i talk about this because my i come from a humble family and i'm not really like them but you have you have to bet on yourself you have to think that you're capable of doing this i told my my best friend when i was going to do the social media thing i said i don't know what it is about this i failed at all the other things that i've tried in my life, but there's something about this.

1:33:26I just, I believe I can do it. I just know if I don't quit, I can do it. It's funny. Once I started gaining two to three followers a day, I was a hundred percent certain that I was going to hit a hundred K because I told myself, I literally would not quit until I hit a hundred K and there's enough days that I'm going to live to hit that. Well, the interesting thing about survivorship bias is that survivorship bias assumes that you die before you win. Yeah. And if you just don't stop, eventually you've rolled the dice enough times to have something that hits yes uh on the ego humility thing it's interesting ego is quite anti-social and humility is quite pro-social in a way in the way that it's interpreted interpreted that um ego causes people around you a lot of the time to have their own shortcomings and self-criticism thrown into harsh contrast uh it also is quite confronting because people think wow he's gonna go do that thing that leaves me behind i don't want him to do that thing if i can claw him back or if i can behind his back sort of vent about fucking who does jet think he is yeah talking about himself like that dude that's not even gonna work like that's fucking lame or whatever in the hopes that that might just slow it down whereas humility even performative humility is seen as oh he's got his feet on the ground.

1:34:46It's nice that he's not got too big for his boots. This is very much a British concern that someone who thinks too highly of themselves is really not liked. Like it's very, very rigid class structure in the UK. You know, it's this ossified country that's not been fucking invaded for a thousand years. Like that's a long time for these power structures to start to drop in. But you can tell, I don't know whether the same thing is true in America. I don't tell just by hearing somebody speak what class they were from like underclass working class middle class upper class yeah and have a good a good indication of what sort of school they went to because it's it's had time to like segment out there's like stratified like fucking sedimentary rock or something and um it's determined a lot of the time by the way that somebody speaks and that they dress and stuff like that.

1:35:39But yeah, humility is pro-social because it binds the group together by not making anybody be confronted by a differential in the power structure. And ego is confronting for the exact opposite reason. What's interesting is I do believe strongly in the idea that you need to be rootable for. You want to be a person that other people want to see win a perfect example of this over the past year or so timothy chalamet went from this guy that everyone was like i love this dude and he's so there's something about him he's just got that swag he's in the way that he walks and then all of a sudden he goes on one of those award shows after he wins and he says i'm really on the pursuit of greatness which to me i loved i was like i like when when fuck yeah timothy chalamet yeah it's like it's like it you have a goal and clearly you're on the path to do it.

1:36:34So yeah, like go up there and say what you want to do. And I felt like he still did it in a humble way, but you'll find a lot of insecure people or non-confident people. They really don't like that. Even if it, like they don't want to have the nuance, they, people believe what they want to believe. And so if they listen to that, they'd rather believe that Timothee Chalamet is a narcissist than someone that's betting on himself and is like really putting himself out there and trying. Have you looked at ascending in the incel community? Do you know what that word means? Ascending? Ascending. Like just getting better in life?

1:37:05Getting laid, typically, or getting attention from women on the sort of lower end. So if you're inside of some of the incel communities, I think most of them, ascending would be getting attention from women. Maybe even as little as the barista in Starbucks, her eyes sort of lingered on me a little bit longer than I think. Maybe she was flirting with me. and ascending is you're seen as persona non grata if you do that inside of the incel community and the reason i think that's the case is that if somebody that i saw as my equal who was afflicted with the same uh issue that i believe that i have is able to bring themselves out of this issue that now makes it the potential for hope for me becomes uh it's brought into reality and that means that now maybe the fact that i feel like i'm afflicted with this thing is not a life sentence but it's actually inside of my control and i have agency over this and the fact that i haven't gotten out of this problem so they're seen they're literally seen as fake cells as somebody who ascends is say, well, you weren't truly an incel.

1:38:16You weren't like us. So there's an immediate othering of somebody who doesn't comport with the same issue that everybody else has. It couldn't be that everybody has the potential to do this. It has to be that that person wasn't a part of our group in the first place. And yeah, when you think about how much people are held back by the fear of others judging them for having self-belief. I think that far more people fail due to a lack of support than a lack of competence. And if you just had a couple more people in your life that believed in you, you'd probably be able to get 10 times further. There's a line from George Mack, my housemate, that says, there is a guy out there with half your talent and five times your self-belief making 10 times the money.

1:39:05And it's just, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think the way that I look at it in the support side of things is honestly, fuck support. It's nice to have it, but I'm going to go to where I want to go regardless. And all those nights, those consecutive nights where I would stay up till 4 a.m. just grinding, whether or not my friend who lives on, my family moved out of my hometown and I don't live, I haven't been in my hometown in years. and I don't talk to those people that much anymore. So if they support me or not, I could give a fuck and then I have no friends where I moved. And so it's like, okay, I'm just gonna do this on my own because like we were talking about before, it's like optimal game theory.

1:39:50Okay, you got dealt shit cards. I'm not saying I got dealt shit cards, but you're not in the optimal position now. So what, are you gonna fuss about it or are you gonna like just do something? And it's interesting you talk about the idea that, oh, if you see someone else doing it, then it's like, oh, I have agency, I can do it. people really don't want to support you if you do well, because especially if they grew up near you, because you become a mirror to them, right? If I come from the same place as other people, and then more or less got the same opportunities, we go to the same school, but now they go on Instagram, they see that Jet is getting some views, he's getting recognition, get put in the public eye, whatever.

1:40:27That's going to tell them, well, I'm really no different than Jet. We came from the same place. He's there. I'm not. So now they get pissed about it and they're projecting and they're like, oh my gosh, I hate this guy. Because you were talking about the incels and I had a YouTube channel. I started at the beginning of this year and it gained traction pretty fast. I got like 200 ,000 subscribers in the first two and a half, three months. And I became very popular amongst that sort of underground people that felt like the system was against them community. And a lot of that community is incels. And of course I never went on these, on my YouTube videos and said, Oh, I'm an incel.

1:41:10I never claimed that or anything like that. But what happened was long and in my videos, I would talk about, I mean, yeah, like naturally, if I have a lot of followers on Instagram, yeah, girls are going to slide in my DMS. I wasn't being cocky about it, but I, there's really no good way to address it because they'll be mad if you don't address it because then they're like he's lying yeah and if you do address and then you're seen as cocky so you gotta you know if you addressed it and had said that there were no girls in your dms that would have been fine well it would have been fake it would have been a lie but it would have been fine that would have been like oh actually yeah okay i'm not throwing it are you familiar with the term larping yeah so everyone's like oh jet's just like the biggest larper ever because what ended up happening was and i never this is what i hate i never lied about it i was always truthful about my life.

1:41:56I become friends with this big influencer, very wealthy. I end up going to his birthday party. It's on the East coast. I go there. And so I, there were some girls there. I don't know if they were Instagram models or whatever. They wanted to take a picture of me. It was not that deep at all. It goes on social media. And then I posted a video where I was like, Oh, it was like kind of like a motivational video. If you work hard at a specific thing, you have to be smart about what you work hard on. Cause if you work hard in corporate, it. Yeah. Maybe life is not, you're, you're, you're not going to be rich because you're selling your time for money.

1:42:28You can never get rich off doing that. You need, there needs to be the potential for, you know, an increase in an appreciation over time. But I went and I posted that video and you know, my entire community turned their back against me. They, they, they had a, they were throwing a shit show. They were mad about it. And they were like, Oh, this jet guy, he's faking it. He's LARPing. He's too good looking to have been socially excluded growing up. It's like, there's not a picture of like, I'll give you my life savings right now. If you can find a picture of me going to any school dance, prom, I didn't go to graduation.

1:43:00I didn't go to anything. I truly was isolated, but these people could not comprehend the fact that now that I started to level up in life, it's like you either die here or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. And they just came after me and they were like, this guy, he's six foot. Like I never even lied about my height online. I just, when you go online and just feel like you're six, five, that's like, oh, that's cocky. Or they would say I'm lying. So I was like, so I just like wouldn't mention it. I was on a very popular looks max or stream and they were like asking me how tall I was.

1:43:32I was like, I'm six, five. And everyone thought I was bullshitting. Everyone on the internet was like, this dude's not six, five. And then a picture came out with me working out with some fitness influencers. And they're like, dude, this guy's six, five. Like there's no way that he has life heart. It's like, what do you like? So you can't win with these people. But anyways, they really were mad about me basically leveling up and they're like, yeah, he always had friends. It's like, so this guy was an influencer. Why would you think that I would be friends with him before I ever started doing content?

1:43:58Or like, I don't know. But like you were saying about that whole like incel community, it's kind of the same thing happened for me, but I've never been a part of the incel community. I've always been a part of the, okay, like male loneliness epidemic. That was more my target audience. Well, it's the narcissism of small differences, right? If you go to the same school as somebody else and you have ostensibly similar skills, the difference in your outcomes is on them. It's on their, like imagine a split test universe in which one of them, you end up being a real success. And in another one, you end up being a real failure.

1:44:32The guy that was the failure would feel really bad because he had all of the raw materials to become the guy that was the success. Like true hell is when the person that you are meets the person that you could have been. And yeah, a lot of the time people feel like, well, I grew up with that guy and he was no more special than I was. This is one of the things I think is kind of interesting about content creation generally. And the fact that lots of people consume lots of podcasts, YouTube, Instagram, and the issue that you have there is the talent delta is not as obvious as doing something that is more refined, like playing a musical instrument or being great at basketball.

1:45:13Most people, I mean, if you sat anybody down with two microphones, they have technically recorded a podcast, no matter how big of a car crash that could be. If you give somebody a saxophone, they cannot reliably make a note come out of it, especially if they're untrained. So because the expertise skill delta doesn't feel as inaccessible the small differences become even smaller like very few people are looking at steph curry and going fucking steph curry dude like the only reason that he got that is because his dad was in the nba it's like no the dude's a generational talent who literally changed the points game of nba of basketball the way that that game's played regardless of whether his dad was great or not which he was but steph went and did his own thing No one's looking at that and saying the only reason that he's got that because no one can do what he does.

1:46:02The more that people think that they can do what you do, the less respect they have for you doing it. Does that make sense? 100%. Because I've seen so many videos. This one guy made a video and it got like 300 ,000 views. And he said he was going to sexually assault me using more graphic terms. Okay, cool. And he literally... like video is a statistical outlier on his channel. You know, all of my haters are going to go watch that video. And then he makes another one, another statistical outlier. And he's not really making any points. He's just like, I hate this guy. And then eventually he makes a video and he goes, you know, the real reason why I hate this jet guy is because I make the same content as him.

1:46:46And he's like, I do the same. And it's like, you go, it's not the same. This guy is completely delusional. It's, it's object. Like he's recording on it. It's like an Android from like 2010 or something. I'm like, first off, your camera quality sucks, but he's like, yeah, this guy, he's just as basic as everyone else. He just has a better face. So that's why everyone, and it's like, okay, first off, holy cow. But second off, it's like, if people assume that they can do what you're doing, but you're getting big off it, they're hitting you more. Like you said, do you know who the streamer Rakai is?

1:47:18Oh, is that the dude that did the beast thing and was kind of the villain? He was like the, he's like a bit of a villain dude. Mr. Beast? No, Rakai he did a hundred streamers compete for cash, I swear he's like kind of a bit of a nuisance, or am I? He is well he, okay, I don't know if I'm not like super familiar with him, but he's very young, very young I don't even think he's graduated high school yet and he's just kind of hollow headed trying to find, like, he's not the sharpest tool in the shed and, but he just, he acts crazy he doesn't really speak English English so he like he speaks English that's his language but you can't understand him and that's the joke about him online but anyways this kid is he has it is the one that I meant streamer Rakai participated in the highly publicized Mr.

1:48:05Beast one million dollars streamer challenge video his intensely competitive aggressive play style and interaction to the other creators made him one of the most talked about controversial figures in the event yes I do know who you mean yeah so this so this guy is one of the most hated people on the internet and just the reason to sum it up and people are, they don't understand, they don't understand this. They don't consciously know that this is why, but this guy doesn't even talk good English. He doesn't do anything necessarily exceptional, but so they look at that and they're like, I could do that.

1:48:34I could do that. But not only that, I could do it better. I'm smarter than him, but yeah, you know, I have feel no negative way towards that guy. I'm not trying to knock him in any way, but yeah, of course. So people are like, oh, I can, I can easily be that type of guy. Like with the streamer stuff, I have a, I have a friend of mine who is trying to make it as a streamer. And the thing about it is all these underground streamers, these people that are trying to come up, it's just copy, paste, copy, paste, copy, paste. And I was telling him, I was like, respectfully, how in the world are you ever going to make it?

1:49:06If you are the product and there's no product differentiation, how in the world are you going to make it? You know, he went to streamer university. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that, but Kai Sinat, one of the biggest, not even just streamers, content creators in the world does this thing once a year now where he invites out all these streamers to this like school for like a week or something. And it's like class and it's just an entertainment thing. It's nothing too serious, but people literally quit their jobs. They drive across the country to go to these auditions. But the thing is, Kaisenat only lets in already known people and all these other people.

1:49:42It's like you, you, you watch the videos and the footage and you know, the cops had to shut it down. It's just copy, paste, copy, paste, copy, paste. These people have the same personalities. And I was telling my friend, I was like, I'm obviously going to support you. And I've always been like, Hey, you need to keep doing this thing. But it's like, if you're doing the same thing that everyone else is doing, how do you, how in the world do you think at some point there's going to be like a switch that's flipped? Because back in the day you could record, you could get three viral videos and all of a sudden you're a known person on buying.

1:50:10Nowadays you record 50 and And you're still, and then you don't drop something for a week and you fell off. So like things have to, you just have to keep on relentlessly getting these viral clips. But what makes clips for the big people go viral is the fact that it's the big people in the clip, not that they're necessarily entertaining in and of itself. So you have to put your time in the game. And yeah, people are just really mad because they're like, I don't understand why I can't be where I want to be. Well, you have to find a way to product differentiate. and maybe the reason that you're not succeeding as much as me or as much as someone else is simply because you're not that person.

1:50:46Like you didn't do, like you think you are, but you're not that person. And that's the biggest issue. Everyone is just projecting, oh, I deserve to be X, Y, and Z. When I was at the bottom, when I had less than 10 ,000 followers, I would find other creators in a somewhat similar niche as me that had around a little bit more followers than me. and I would literally look at their videos and be like, that is shit. I would be like, I am so much better. Like I would convince, I'm like, my videos are so much better. And slowly but surely I start getting past them and then I'm like, all right, who's the next one?

1:51:17Who's the next one? And like we were talking about before, that goalpost never ends. There's always someone else. Correct. But I was like, I would get mad at it and I thought I was better, but I didn't really do nothing about it. I did something about it. And that's sort of the difference. Well, the difference is between simulating what somebody else does and learning inspiration that can help you improve right the best that you can hope for if you're trying to be somebody else is to be the second best in the world yeah right at being them yeah and you are the zeroth in the world of being yourself naval ravikon he said you escape competition through authenticity yeah and what's what's that there's peter thiel has a quote where he's what is it i made a video about this i'm trying to think about it.

1:52:02He said, competition is for losers. And so in other words, you're a loser if you're not being authentic. If you correlate that with what Naval Robcon said, because you beat competition by being authentic. So you beat being a loser by being authentic. And so I was like, wow, it's such a basic, simple thing, but people don't really internalize it. They don't understand it. authenticity is an interesting one because what everybody likes the idea of is seeing a person who is just being themselves. There's no filter. They're not playing a game. They're not trying to perform. They're not trying to finesse me into believing that there's something that they're not or pretend that they're not something that they are.

1:52:47But there's kind of a, there's like a window of tolerance that people are prepared to live inside of. And as soon as you get outside of it, What you realize is that the internet is desperate for authenticity, but it's allergic to sincerity. Yeah. That's interesting. Like if you are genuinely sincere, genuinely earnest about something, like you go through a hard time and you talk about it with some beautiful montage over the top. And it's sort of all fluffy and bubbly at the end. It's the wise question, right? Like how deep do you go with the why? Whereas if you see a dude do an Instagram video and he breaks down crying in it, you go, oh no, that's too much sincerity.

1:53:28I have an aversion to that. And this kind of just goes to show how limited the internet's preparedness for empathy is and also how narrow most people's tolerance for an emotional window is. It's like you're allergic to somebody genuinely showing their emotions, especially when they're out of control. If it doesn't seem like they are in control of the way that they're operating anymore, that seems like a lack of congruence, a lack of competence. Yeah. Yeah. Internet is desperate for authenticity and allergic to sincerity. You know, it's interesting. Robert Greene says that authenticity is bullshit and it doesn't exist.

1:54:10And I was thinking about that. And I think when people say authenticity or that person is authentic. It's like, let's say there's a spectrum and they're closer to their genuine self than the average person. And then you're like, oh, that person's authentic, but they're not truly, if you take it in the absolute sense of the word, they're not truly authentic because I think that would probably be social suicide, right? Like if you really just say what you believe, listen, when I was in high school, this was the whole thing. I wasn't very well liked when I was in high school. And kind of the reason was because I was, part of it was I was resentful.

1:54:49I started reading a lot of books and I got smart and it's like the Dunning-Kruger effect. I thought I was, I was a lot smarter than everyone else when in reality, I really didn't know much. But a big thing was I really thought that honesty was completely virtuous and just being as wrong, as honest with someone was like the best thing you could do, which now is just not true. like now I know that to be not true to give you an example this is gonna make me this this sounds crazy and I do not like anyone that's listening to this do not do this but we were at a one of those football games on a Friday night and I went there and this girl probably I think she was under the influence and she was like she she just straight up asked me do you think I'm pretty and I'm like here we go with this like fishing bullshit like I was I was like I was like no but I didn't say it in a mean way.

1:55:38I was just like, no, in a very neutral way. And she's like, what do you mean? Do you think I'm ugly? And I was like, yes, which is insanely immature, but that was how I felt. And I thought that that was okay. And also I wouldn't go out of my way to say that to someone ever, but she asked me. So I thought it was right away. That didn't go over well. So that didn't go over well. I got a bunch of pushback and I remember I would go home and I'd be like, oh my God, these, these people, yeah. Pushback for whatever that means in high school and and uh and yeah i mean no wonder these people didn't like me i think they were totally valid for not liking me but i would go home and i would be like i was in the right there i was in the right but it's like okay what do you like this is such kindergarten like what this is such psychologically infantile type of activity i don't know yeah i mean look have you ever read Sam Harris's essay lying to our long book.

1:56:34He wrote it with his wife. It's fucking great. It's like a 60 page treatise on why you should know. Wait, is this the one where he says, if your wife is pregnant, she asked you if she looks good. Oh yes. I read that a long time ago. It's pretty good. People should revisit it. I think you can get it for free online and there's an audible version too. It's like basically a long podcast. It's just an essay and he wrote it with his wife, interestingly enough. There is definitely a philosophical underpinning where you can say any lie, including a white lie at any time is a bad idea. Like the Anne Frank in the attic thing.

1:57:06It's like, just go up and get her. No worries. But functionally it can put you in situations like this. Right. And I think that you can have a kind of decorum. You can be classy in the way that you sort of show up. You can say things that don't fully, it's like, look, there's a type of girl for everyone. And I'm sure that I'm not for you. But you know, I don't think that we'd make a great couple and you're like whatever the fuck and then you're like okay i managed to get out of that scot-free um but there is like if you take the like the autism pill and decide like i am going to completely fucking tell the truth at all times yeah you end up in situations like this where a girl that's drunk on a friday night at a football game just wants to hear from some boy that she's like cute or whatever and what she gets is like a existential she'll kick in the nuts.

1:57:59So dude, you're fucking awesome. I think everyone should go and subscribe to your channel. Where should people go to check out everything you've got going on? Jet Franzen with J-E-T-T-2-T's on social media with Instagram, TikTok. And then, yeah, if you just search up my name on YouTube, it should show up. I think it's got like a, some other bullshit in the name, but just search up Jet Franzen and you'll probably get 50 videos of people shitting on me. So that's all. Well, I searched you and it seems to be your content and your stuff rules. I think you're great, man. And keep going. I'm going to be watching.

1:58:34Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for$15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made$15 bills. But it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12 month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. I'm going to be supporting from the sidelines.

1:59:05Shout out your dad as well. Yeah, shout out my dad. Thank you so much for having me, bro. This is an honor. Seriously. He crushed it, man. He crushed it. All right. Goodbye, my beauties. See you next time. Bro. Yes. Fucking yes, dude. Same. Well done. Dude, I enjoyed that. I could have gone for like...