The Art of Unstoppable Self-Belief - Joe Santagato - #1108

29:34But I just want to know that, like, I want to know what my full potential is. Like, I want to know what I'm capable of. There's still fear that lives in me that feels like you turn down certain opportunities or you don't do certain things because of fear. And you especially. How much do you feel that? How much do you feel fear? All the time. I think all the time. I mean, there's certain parts of it that. There's certain parts of it that I'm afraid of. And. It gets easier when you kind of do stuff. I was afraid to do live shows. I was, I was like nervous about doing it because you're so comfortable, like just on the internet.

30:15And it's like, you can edit it. It's, there's no like really high stakes, but can you perform for two hours in front of people? Like that's a very big jump in it and a different thing, especially when you're doing a podcast show that people have no expectations coming into the show. Like what the fuck is it going to be? Like, are you going to get on there and sit on stage and talk to your boy? And that's going to be the whole show. Like it can't be that. It can be. Some people do it, but I was not interested in that whatsoever. Lazy people do. Yeah. I was not interested in that whatsoever. I held off until we had a good idea and also at a point where we felt like we are hitting a stride and the show has grown to the point and this feels like, okay, this is a logical next step, but we're going to make it worth it for people because going back to what I was saying before, none of this is for the money.

31:03I really just am not motivated by money at all. um so i would feel horrible if i went out there and and didn't try and if they loved it it would make it worse because then it would feel like oh i manipulated them and get into giving my money and they're happy why are they happy i didn't even try mailed it in yeah i mailed it in and they're happy about that like they shouldn't be happy about that like they should hold me to a higher standard you know and i think that's like manipulation and people do that to their audience There's a line, the guy who you didn't know, Alex, there. No, I know Alex.

31:38Oh, you know him. I just was shocked by the fact that you guys were up there. Yeah, it's very regal. Wow. He's got a line which says, control freak is a word that people with low standards use to describe people with high standards. Control freak. Is a term that people with low standards use to describe people with high standards. Gotcha. And what you've said is dotting every I, crossing every T, spending a lot of time obsessing over it sounds like you're quite obsessive yeah to me like i mean you are by definition i watch a video and there's a section of a video that i can't stop thinking about because it makes gives me goosebumps or it makes me cry yeah that you're obsessing over this emotion this energy you're obsessing over this vibe you're obsessing over this song for your show that hasn't even yet been booked right and i've got this idea that i think obsession's really misunderstood by people that we're all obsessed with discipline and motivation the motivation is cool because it's kind of like relatively free discipline like it makes you want to do the thing and discipline is you making yourself do the thing yeah like that's gogins and jocko and getting up at 4 30 a.m and spitting soardust and willpower and stuff like that yeah but then there is this next level which is obsession an obsession is i can't not do the thing i guess unable to stop myself from doing it that has been something that is very present in my life for the longest time.

33:00I dropped out of college because of that feeling. And I, when I was, I went to a, I don't even know why I did this, but I was in high school. I went to a Catholic high school. I was a good student, you know, like near nineties, you know, something like that, whatever letter that is. But when it came time to apply for colleges, I just never did it. Like you're supposed to do that in like November or something. And I just never did it because, and I don't, I couldn't even tell you why. I don't want me to know what my rationale was at the time. But then I lied to my parents and I said, yeah, I applied here and there and I'm just waiting just to put off hearing about it.

33:36And then I eventually just went, I told my parents I didn't get into any schools. And then I went, which is like insane if that actually happened, which whatever. But I went to a community college. I went to a school called Queensborough Community college. And I did a semester there and it was very hard for me because I, I just felt so strongly that it wasn't for me. And it bothered me that that's like a thing that a lot of people say. And I'm like, am I just one of those people that's like, oh, you know, school's just not for me. And it's kind of like, um, cause I didn't think I was better than it.

34:11Like, I, I still don't think that. And I think that it has its place for sure. Um, but there was something in me that was like a feeling of like, I can't go back. Like I can't like, and I don't have a plan at that time. I was making some YouTube videos, but they were amounting to nothing really. I enjoy doing it, but it wasn't like I thought this is what I'm going to do. This was also in 2011 when there wasn't influencers, there wasn't even Instagram. There was, there was nothing. So the idea that you can make a career off of this, like didn't really exist. So there wasn't like this guiding light of like, I'm going to do this.

34:46I was doing YouTube videos and I wasn't getting paid any money to do them, but I did feel like maybe if I grew this to a certain point, I could leverage the audience into like an audition for something. I don't know. Like I wasn't really thinking, but I didn't necessarily want to be an actor. I just liked doing that at the time, but something was pushing me away. And I literally would drive to the school and sit in the car, very dramatic. And I would just stare at the school and I'm like, I can't, I literally just can't get myself to go. And going back to why I'm an insane person, there was one time where I literally had like a notebook and I just wrote out like a, an interview that like Barbara Walters was doing with me where she was like walking me around she's like so this is your college like and i was like thinking like that like i just want something so bad i know i can't get it in there you didn't even know what it was no which is stupid that's very that's really interesting right because you've got you had ambition without direction zero i had a lot of passion and ambition and it was like your passion was for no most people don't realize how much being dehydrated impacts their performance which is why for the last five years, I've started pretty much every morning with Element.

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36:34Plus, they offer free shipping in the US. Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinklmnt.com slash modern wisdom. That's drinklmnt.com slash modern wisdom. So that's really, really interesting, because I think a lot of the time people assume that in order to move, you need to have a plan, and you need to know where you're going. And that's kind of classic. My background on the podcast for the first couple of years was kind of productivity, bro. It was deep work and focus timers and learning how to organize your desk and using notes apps and stuff.

37:12Almost everything didn't work, except for just building up the muscle of trying to not get distracted and probably not using your phone as much as you want to. Right, like that's kind of it. But anyway, a lot of the standard advice is set your 25-year goal and then break it down into five-year periods. And then you do it in 18-month blocks and it's 90-day sprints and every day build this all together. But it kind of bypasses the fact that if you're somebody that's got a passion, that's got passion, all you need to do is find something to plug that into. and I wonder how many people because they have a fear of not knowing what it is that they want to do they back themselves into something that feels safe because they're scared of having this drive but not having the direction like ambition without direction which fucking like that's a lovely little framing um they don't know where to put it so they're like well I'll do this I'll go to the college.

38:17I'll get the job. And then before they know it, they've kind of tumbled backwards. There's an idea called sliding versus deciding. They've slid into a set of train tracks that they're now on where they're not able to use their passion. They're not that passionate about it, but it feels really safe. I'm super, super safe in this situation. But all of that passion is kind of still burning, doesn't really have anywhere to go. And after a while, I get the sense that if you don't keep giving it at least the fuel of the potential for dream, that it sort of burns out. I think that there are people that probably have more passion than others, because I do think there are people that are perfectly content with, you know, going to college, getting a job and like, that's their life.

38:59And I think that's amazing. Like, I think that as long as you feel fulfilled, like you should do that. They are very lucky. Yeah, they're very lucky because the alternative is that you need to contort yourself into this weird fucking shape yeah run all over the planet trying to work out who you are a part of me was afraid because i did have all that passion and i didn't know where to put it um i think that i think that if you're lucky enough to find something that really lights a fire in you like something that you actually enjoy like this is the thing like you you know for me it's like You need to do it.

39:36I need to do that. You can't not do it. I can't. I can't. I have to. And that's why dropping out of college felt like that. That was the first time that I felt something like, it had a physical reaction to me where it was like, dude, don't do that. And there was no fucking plan. And mind you, I was always a good student growing up and I played sports and stuff. And I felt like there was a lot of, there was high expectations for me. And then I was not fulfilling that at all. And then I'm going to go, well, I'm also dropping out of college, you know? And that was a lot of L's in a short space. Oh my God, dude.

40:10It is a lot of L's. And there was only one time where I was like, man, I'm fucking this up bad. Like maybe I'm just like full of shit. Like you think, do you have, just because I have all this passion. Oh, my ambition. Exactly. It's like, bro, this counts for nothing. No one cares that you're passionate. Like, and you're waiting for what? Like, what are you waiting for? Like, what are you going to do? and then there was a time where i did have that realization of because when i was younger i was a little more like arrogant about it in my head where i was like i'm gonna find something like i was like kind of sure which not sure but uh there was a moment where like all my friends are going to college and some of them away some of them are in the neighborhood some of them have jobs and whatever and i'm literally doing nothing now because i dropped out of college i don't even gonna have a job at this point how did that feel like a fucking loser dude like i just i i literally felt like that was the first time that i ever told myself like yo you're full of shit dude like you have all this passion and uh you know you i'm sitting in a car writing a fucking nice barbara walters interview yeah like what am i talking about with your mom and dad yeah like yeah she'll be dead by the time this happens anyway but like i was like i was you're sitting there writing that And then a part of me is like, I'm upset with myself because I'm like, you told yourself the lie and you believed it.

41:28And I do believe it is sort of like a lie because that could get you in trouble and it would have got me in trouble too. If I followed that passion, because no matter what, I was following that. I follow the excitement as far as like professionally is. And I think that's important, especially even now, if you ask me like, what's your five year plan? I don't have one. I'm waiting for the excitement to appear. I'm at the point now where it's a little easier to do that because I can kind of sit back a little bit and sort of rest on my laurels and, you know, kind of make decisions. I could kind of float here.

42:00But if something pops up and that excites me, that's what I'm doing. Like, and I have no idea. It could look totally different. You know what it sounds like? It sounds like one of the things that you've really steered away from, at least when making your life decisions, is obligation. I don't feel like. Not like you're not. Dan, are you telling my dad? You're not obliged to do something just because people expected you to, just because you were doing it previously, just because your parents might have wanted you to do it. I understand the obligation comes with a lot of baggage. Fucking childhood trauma coming through your eyes.

42:33But I do know what you mean. I think that's true. A lot of people feel obligated to go and do something. They even feel obligated to keep moving. right there's this sense of oh fuck like i can't just sit and wait or i can't just sit and think and in some ways that's true right you shouldn't just be wish it want it do it dream it believe it and not go and work for it in your way through the life through your life like that's good you're gonna result in you being on the couch until you get kicked out yeah of your apartment i also like I have a deep desire to earn it. I want to earn it. And I want people to look at me and feel like he earned it.

43:14I don't want people to feel like there was a shortcut or anything like that. I don't think that anyone can look at the backlog of stuff that you've done and say that you haven't earned it. I'd like to think that the same thing is true for me as well. But I feel that about things that haven't happened yet either. Any sort of thing that pops up that I will do. I can tell you right now, I don't know the specifics, but my life moving forward will look very random. There probably will be other projects that are not podcasting, not a live show, whatever, that I'm like, I'm going to put my all into that or whatever.

43:48I go with the excitement, and I want to be good at those things. I want to. That's why I'm so willing to take criticism because I want to be good. I want to be good. I want people to know that I'm trying really hard to do this thing if it excites me. What do you think about the sort of current trend of people trying to be nonchalant? That was such a British pronunciation. Nonchalant. I like that better, to be honest. Nonchalant. Nonchalant. In what way do you mean? Well, you're talking about I want people to see me trying really hard. Yeah. Trying hard is kind of lame to a certain category of people, especially people on the internet, which is why you exist.

44:30Everybody thinks it's lame, yeah. So there's... There's a world at the moment that only ever talks in irony. Like they only ever make ironic sentences and ironic statements. Nobody stands for something legitimately. They only ever stand against things or kind of mock stuff or suggest. It's kind of like the passive aggressive pushing of your own things. Well, you know, like this thing's like, all right, I guess. As opposed to I am giving this my absolute fucking everything. In the UK, for instance, we have tall poppy syndrome. people that try really hard called kinos too keen you're too keen for this thing you're too excitable you'd get called fucking very american of you that dude like that really like it's enthusiasm is looked down on to a degree especially if you come from a working class background which is as scum class as i can be like you are kind of encouraged to not get too big for your boots.

45:29I must have heard that thousands of times. Don't get too big for your boots. Don't have dreams that are too big. The thing with me is like, I realize that, but if you're people who are acting nonchalant about, especially about things that they are actually passionate about, it's just insecurity, like manifesting in that way where it's like, I need to appear like I'm not really trying, but I am trying or whatever. Like I'm not insecure about those things. So I'm I'm like, don't worry, I got them. But I'm not insecure about those things. So I'm willing to try really hard at them and fail and fall on my face or whatever.

46:04And it kind of excites me too, that there's a lot of people that aren't willing to do that. Cause it's like, then it feels like I have a leg up on them because I'm willing to hit the ground super hard. Because when I hit the ground, like then I know like that happened. You slammed a door in my face. Cause so I know like, okay, I got these to choose from now. Like, at least I have a decision. Like you made a final decision. Like it, that failed. then I can move on. I'm not nonchalant about it because I'm not even doing it for the perception. I'm doing it for me. And when I say that I want to earn it, it's not necessarily for outside validation.

46:36Like I want to know when I go to sleep at night, like you worked hard and you got that thing. That feels really good. Like that's an amazing feeling to know that I put my all into this thing. It started as an idea. I said it out loud. I worked hard to do it. And then it happened. And that's an amazing feeling. There's a quote from Mark Manson. He says, do hard shit, not because it's fun, but because the win actually means something. You bled for it, you broke for it, you earned it. Easy wins are forgettable. Hard ones change you. That's the point. Exactly. What is better than that? There is nothing better than that.

47:12This is one of the things I think about the world of AI and how many people are maybe relying on assistance for their job or for their writing or their creative pursuits. and what it's doing is it's actually robbing you of the thing that you came here to get yes the thing that you came here to get is the sensation of i work i did hard shit and i got good i got good at it and i got good one rep at a time and yeah like that's that to me is like the biggest payoff when i could watch something like an old video or i can watch like something from our first shows or just know whatever i'm just like i'm better than that now which is good does anyone I never put together one of those, the timeline of Josh Santigo fucking like videos of, I'm going to make it worse each time.

47:59Piece of shit. I'm going to try this bullshit. You can't do shit talk. The Neutronic. Like purposely misquoting everything. Someone did it. That's good, by the way. Sorry. Thank you. Good. Get it in. Someone did a video a little while, like last week or something. It's really fucking good. And I watched it and they went back and analyzed the first episodes I'd ever done on the podcast. And they said this line and they were like, you might not think that this guy would go on to become anything in regards to a successful podcaster. I was like, it's true, but it was 1 ,100 episodes ago in 2018 in the northeast of the UK in my old office in Newcastle.

48:47You know, it's funny you actually bring that up because this morning I got a random DM from a person and they did exactly, this is fucking weird by the way, because now you know what I'm saying. Someone, this has never happened to me ever. I feel like I'm always a mentalist right now. I'll be like, no, actually, but this, that exact thing happened to me for the first time ever. Someone sent me a screenshot of, it was one, it wasn't the first episode, but it was one of the first ones. And I titled it, who the fuck is this guy? And I talked about myself and like what the podcast is going to be and like things that I believe in or whatever.

49:22And the message that they left me was like, I just want to say that I've been a fan of yours for a really long time. And I just listened to this. and it's really cool to see that you know you've gone on to be successful and have some fame and this and that but like this sounds like you like you're still like the same person there and that is like the biggest compliment that i could get because that's the whole point like that's that's what i want that's like what i believed in i believed that if i was authentic enough then i could stand out and i had the luxury of starting when i did because there wasn't a lot of people doing it now everyone's doing it but it's hard to be authentic because you're constantly sort of inspired by other things that are happening on the internet if that makes sense i had the idea that if i could be authentic enough it would work out like what's that mean if i could be authentic enough most people would say if i could come up with a novel enough idea if i could be creative enough if i could work hard enough if i could uh um find the right niche you're saying the key competitive advantage the key sort of fuel that you were optimizing for was authenticity yeah why for well for me at the time like it was i was making youtube videos and a lot of people were kind of doing the same thing so that felt like the only way that i can stand out is if i do things sort of my way and i put my like kind of flare on it or whatever.

50:56I didn't want to, and the things that other people were doing felt lazy to me. So I was like, I'm not going to do that. I'll do some other stuff. I'll, you know, I'll experimental. I mean, by the way, whatever I tried to do sucked besides the point. But I, my thought was like, if I can stay authentic to my voice, then I'll stand out because there's only one of me and there's only one of you. And I think that's true for anybody like that ultimately is the goal there when you see something new it's exciting you know like when a new thing drops people want it's a brand new thing we haven't seen it before so if you are authentic and you sort of are placed on a platform or in a you know a medium like this or something and you're as authentic as you can be you're going to stand out because guess what there's a lot of other people that are just trying to be like the other ones who are already successful that is so fucking good that's really really good you no one can beat you at being you.

51:52No. But the problem is - It's the easiest job. To just be you. That's it. No one can beat you at being you, but a lot of people are trying to be someone else. Yes. And maybe that is because of some sort of insecurity and there's other stuff to impact there. But if you can get to a place where you're okay with yourself and you know yourself and you can apply that into - I mean, for me, I'm specifically talking about content creation and that sort of thing. but if you can do that uh i think that that pays dividends in in in my field like what i do like i think that makes you stand apart from everyone else because if you are trying to dress and sound and make videos that look like if you're trying to make the same videos as mr beast like what do you what do you think that you're just going to be mr beast like it already exists and he's the guy and he has a specific formula i think he also says a lot of like smart things about like how to create viral moments.

52:48And he actually gives really good advice in those ways. But thinking that you're going to make it because you're just going to copy him, I think it will hurt you ultimately. You know what the interesting thing with that is? I've met Jimmy once for two minutes, so I don't really know him. Let's say that Mr. Beast isn't being Mr. Beast. Let's say that he's performing in some way, his insecurity is driving him. Let's just say that that's the case. Regardless of whether he's being authentic or not, you trying to be him still won't work. Right. Which is the interesting thing, right? Even if you try to model someone who's being authentic, which not many people are by definition, that still won't work because it's still inauthentic to you.

53:29Now there's things that you can learn. It's not as if you learned how to video a podcast or put together a live show without taking inspiration. You said that you watched Ben Affleck and Matt Damon get this thing and they've got ways of speaking and ways of working and they've got a philosophy behind things. I love what they did with Good Will Hunting and I love the way that they did this thing, but I don't really like that so much. And then you take it and it becomes a part of you as opposed to you trying to be it. But yeah, just the authenticity as the biggest competitive advantage you have, I think is a really interesting idea.

54:00I really do think that's true. And I also, I'm not trying to like, I'm not, I'm not even trying to be the, like the best. I'm just trying to like, be like me with learning more, like with taking something from, like anytime we've had conversations and, you know, we get into these types of discussions, like I can take some stuff from there. So I can take things from you and be like, well, I'm taking that and I'm keeping it. But in order to do that, I think that you have to be at a certain place with yourself where you're willing to tell yourself that you're wrong. You could think something so much and then you have an argument with someone and it's very hard to be like, oh, fuck, I'm wrong.

54:43That person's right. And completely change your point of view. I like to think sometimes I can do that. And that helps tremendously. Like I really think that everyone has something to offer. Like everybody has something that will help you, whether it be, and it could come in the form of like horrible advice. And then like, that's also helpful. I don't want to do that. Exactly. But you can learn from everyone, but making it, I think it's a mistake to only look at people that are like your heroes as like the people you need to follow. There's a lot of people around you that you can get things from that are going to help you.

55:19People who don't know anything about your job or anything. My mom will say something that I'm like, oh, okay. And it's not always applied to the job, but it's also my life. My actual personality and the way that I approach life, the only way to grow is to constantly admit when you're wrong. In my opinion, that feels like I try to take responsibility for everything that goes wrong in my life. I truly try to do that because that's what I can control. I can't really control how other people are going to react or what's going to happen or whatever. But how when something bad happens to you, to me, I think that there's an opportunity there when something bad happens to you where I can learn from this or I can take something from it.

56:07Or I could just put up a wall and be like, wow, that person's fucked up. But like, what is your involvement in that? you know like something an easy example is if you're in a relationship and you get cheated on it's like well what the fuck like she's a whore she's whatever but like what is your involvement actually and i'm not saying that let's let's absolve her you know shouldn't have fucked steve for sure but like what could you get from that situation are you capable of getting to the point of like even though that i was the safest option and i was taking care of her and i was nice to her i never cheated on her i never scream at her i clean the house and i do whatever maybe you're boring though.

56:43And that's fine. Or maybe you picked wrong. Or that too. Maybe you weren't discerning in who you chose. Sure. But like, it's on you in some capacity. Because even if you are, let's say like a boring guy, or it's like super vanilla and it feels like every day is predictable and whatever, and she got bored. It's okay to admit that like, okay, that's something that happened to me. It doesn't mean that you have to change because if you don't want to, you don't have to, but at least know your involvement while still, you can still go like, fuck you, but then you have to move on with your life. I'm going to learn from it as well.

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58:36It's that they know if they did a little bit of self or a lot of self-reflection, they made a mistake too. And just blaming the other person and doing the fuck you thing allows you to hide. It gives you distance from where you could have been responsible. And I think that's the reason people would rather get angry at someone else than get angry at themselves. And a lot of the time we have betrayed ourselves in situations. You have. It's like, you know, maybe I should have fucking paid a little bit more attention. Maybe I should have seen the red flags earlier. Maybe I should have heeded the advice from my business partner with that deal or whatever it might be.

59:17That doesn't mean that you're a bad person. Not at all. It doesn't mean that you're less than or irredeemable or that things are broken, but it does mean that you've got something to learn. And kind of like if you're robbing yourself of the opportunity to learn that thing. It's already shit. You might as well try and get something good out of it. That's why like everyone looks back at them like, well, I don't know about everyone. I don't know how you did in school. But like a lot of people that I know have like looked back in like high school or whatever. It's like, bro, I wish I like tried harder because then I could, you know, blah, blah, blah.

59:50It's sort of like one of those things where it's like you're already presented the situation. The bad thing already happened. What can you get from it? because you could walk away with something that could help you. And even if you've done the work and there's a realization of like, you know what, I'm just not responsible, that's okay too. That's also a takeaway, which is a lesson for you to take. But if you don't do the self-assessment, you know the word that's coming to mind as you say it? Alchemy, like turning something that's kind of useless and shitty into something that's really valuable.

1:00:20And sometimes what you have in the beginning versus what you get out is like way smaller, but this was already shitty. yeah so you might as well try and work a little bit of alchemy on this thing to convert it into something that's a little bit more beautiful yeah i mean i feel that and i feel that way about everything i mean every single time like you know me and greg work creatively on a lot of different projects and i i i think that we're very capable people i mean i just talked all that shit that i could do anything um but i we've we've run into massive roadblocks where people are like no but But that's good because it's like and it's funny because it's like we were really confident about that.

1:00:57Then we got our ass whooped. But that's that's where I like to be, because, you know, this sounds so corny and it's like overset in so many ways. But it's just very true that like when you do fail and when you get your ass whooped, there's it's good because you just closed a possible door and now you have less doors to choose from. like there's more of a chance of it happening now because you just learned something someone slammed the door in your face turn around there's other ones you know like and you can learn from that and and most of the time especially with creative projects you will get advice on why it did not work or why it's not good and you try to find a reason like okay i'm okay with it being wrong i don't need to defend this thing and i don't need to be like 100 right like no fuck you this is a good script or whatever like find out why it's bad find out why it's bad and then like If you really care about that thing, you will find those answers.

1:01:53Or else you're just going to keep making the same mistake over and over. Or you won't make another thing ever again, and you'll keep holding it and being like, no, I swear to God, this thing's going to get greenlit. And you're like, dude. Oh, it's the guy, if coach had only put me in, then I would have got my NFL contract. If I didn't blow out of my knee. If I didn't blow out of my knee. But if you keep running around Austin Lake, you'll be fine. Dude. You mentioned your mom a bunch. Yeah. You're still super close with your mom, right? Millennials and Gen Z are basically cutting off their boomer parents at record rates and calling it healing, you know?

1:02:27Yeah. What do you think about that? Like, families never felt more optional, and I think that's worth interrogating. That's crazy. You know, I don't know if I have a unique or niche. Abnormally good relationship. Yeah. So like, I think I'm probably in the minority, but my, I'm very close with my family and you know, like there, there's just like conversations. Like my, my financial advisor has like said stuff, like sometimes being like, yo, just, you know, a lot of people, like you gotta, when you're doing the will or you're doing whatever, like you should be careful because a lot of people like, my family has never asked me for anything.

1:03:10They're only supportive people, especially my mother has never asked me for anything. No one has ever asked me for anything. Like even my friends, like they're just supportive and they're not supportive in the way that they're going to show up with their face painted and shit, but they'll, they'll be supportive. You know, I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing that would call for that anyway, to be fair, but that would be nice for them to show up while I'm recording a podcast and just stand in the corner. but uh yeah my my my family i'm very close to them i can't imagine that when i see things like online or you see it like in a movie sometimes you kind of hear it that like someone has a brother that they don't talk to i'm like that's outrageous like i would never let that fly like i would fly across the world and kick my sister's door in and be like you're gonna fucking sit here and talk to me and we're going to figure this thing out.

1:04:00You know, like that's, that's how we deal with issues. Like there's issues. Home invasion. Yeah. Kidnapping, whatever I have to do, really, I can do anything. I kidnap. But I, yeah, like that's how we kind of deal with problems when there's something going on or whatever. Like no one talks shit behind people's backs in my family. It's like, you're going to hear it because it's going to come out right now. And then it usually just results in like a very easy thing that you can kind of get over. There's, there's rarely a long-lasting, under-the-table grudge or anything like that. Because someone would just call it out.

1:04:36It's like, what, are you fucking still mad? Like, it'll just, you know, like, it's just kind of like that. We were all just, like, very close. That is the most queen's approach to something. What, are you fucking still mad? The fuck? But my mom, like, my mom is great. Both my parents are great. My father lives in North Carolina now. and my mom is in New York. So there was an age where I think, you know, I don't want to speak for parents because I don't have children, but I think that there's probably, in my life it was important that my mom is my mom. She's always my mom and we can't be friends, but there was a shift in, she stopped trying to be like this mother that's going to make decisions for me.

1:05:28What age did that happen? I don't even, I can't really pinpoint it. I would say it's probably younger than most people. When did you notice it? Oh, I didn't notice it until like maybe five, six years ago. That was something that meant a lot to me. You've just been allowed to freewheel at some point in the past and I didn't notice it. Yeah, like just giving me the space to make mistakes and probably do things that she wouldn't do. And like she knows I'm about to do them and just kind of like, all right, you know, And there's a trust in that. She doesn't look at me like, all right, good luck, idiot.

1:06:00It's kind of like there's a trust that I'm going to let you be creative. You have to let your children kind of be who they are. You can't make the same kid over and over again where it's like, this is how you raise a child. They do this. You have to do that. This one has to do that too and whatever. Children are very different, obviously. And I think that if people, maybe this one's really creative, this one's really into whatever, and this one's really into that. And you kind of have to notice those things and let them do that. And I really believe that my mother specifically, because in the years where I started to realize what was going on, we kind of had that relationship where it felt like her guard came down a little bit as a mother and she like let me into her life a little more.

1:06:43So I was like able to let her into, and then it felt more friendly. But she always says, she's like, we can't be friends though. She always says that. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I suppose that's so I'm thinking about what that moment must be like for parents, you know, because you've raised this kid. For me, I'm an only child, right? So it's even more fucking pressure, even more vigilance, even more everything. The entire genetic lineage rests on the fucking shoulders. This one guy who's still childless and they let you out into the world. and they've spent all of this time keeping you alive and raising you and wiping your ass and then still wiping your ass when you're an adult, just metaphorically.

1:07:24And now you're out there. And then at some point they need to go, I actually think either, I don't know if he's good without me, but I'm going to let him make mistakes. Or I think he's good without me and I'm not needed anymore. Right. And both of those situations, The first one, the first one's probably even harder because the compulsion to step in to, if you watch your kid run toward a table with a sharp edge, you go, and I pick them up. And you, at 19, as you were about to make your first investment or at 23, as you're about to get into a long-term, long distance relationship with someone that your mom knows is bad for you.

1:08:07You know, there's always a, I'll pick you up and stop you from banging your head on the table. Right. There's always that impulse. Yeah. And at some point you need to go, I think he can handle the head bang. Yeah. And I think it's actually good for him to learn from it. But that must be, those two things must be really, really fucking hard for parents. I imagine like that would be, and I'm sitting here as a person who tries to control every single part of his fucking life, that when I have children, I'm going to be like, yeah, yeah, sure. Go ahead, do it. I'm fine. Like, you know, that's probably much easier said than done.

1:08:43And yeah, I mean, that's impossible. I can't even imagine like having a child and feeling like I'm completely responsible for this thing's life. And then it's gonna come to a certain point where you have to just completely walk away and be like, I am no longer the coping mechanism. You're not in charge. Because then it becomes enabling in a way. Or you're like hindering your child by being like, I'm always gonna be there for you. It's like they have to feel, a little alone like their decisions are like on them and they have to deal with the repercussions you can't fix everything obviously um but yeah i don't know that's why a lot of people shit talk university i'm friends with guys that are largely self-taught in a lot of different things that they went to university for a thing and then have found success doing the opposite thing.

1:09:37And the lesson that they've taken away from that is university's bullshit and with the internet, and especially now AI, you can teach yourself anything you want at way faster pace and follow your passions and change and all the rest of it. But I think one of the biggest takeaways from going to uni for me, I was at uni for five years and then stayed in the same city for another eight, was moving out of the house and living on your own with other people. that you kind of thrust into this situation. You just need to make it work. Unless you stop, obviously. But for the most part, your stuff's still on a set of train tracks, as opposed to, I'm going to move in with my friends and then quickly going to stop.

1:10:19There's more guardrails. It's like, well, I'm here for a purpose. And if I don't like this halls of residence, I can just go to the hall manager and say, I want to move to a different flat. There's a degree of support there. But what it teaches you is, okay, I actually, both the parents and the kids are kind of it's right it's another umbilical separation right it's another cutting of that cord and this time it's geographically a little bit sometimes it's far but that i think is can be really important i certainly know for me only child uh very insular quite introverted family life that was a huge changing point like i grew up at my level of socialization and understanding of the world tripled by the time i was 21 right from 18 it was insane it's the same reason why it's like important to put very young children in school and like in like pre-k or something it's like they learn socialization it's kind of the same but on a different level obviously like going to college and like now you're on your own you're around a bunch of kids and you're going to be like living by yourself for the first time and you know for all the reasons that you just said but it's funny how that like kind of comes around again dude i saw this tweet earlier on today you're not autistic you just work from home and it's making you weird

1:11:37i wonder if i can use the fact that i'm an only child as an excuse dude i'll tell you when i was when i moved into my first real apartment because i had an apartment that i just like film stuff at and it wasn't really like a real apartment but then my first real apartment when i moved into that one i felt so weird like it felt like i'm never i bought like a little bench and some weights and stuff and then i quickly threw that out because i was like i need to get a membership well yeah well then i was like i gotta i was like i gotta leave this apartment because i'm working here i live here now i'm gonna work out here i'm not leaving here like i'm not leaving like i'm nuts i'm like walking around and i'm you know whatever it was just it's so bad to do that i got a gym membership at a place like a half an hour away just so i can like drive and go we got it we got to talk about that insight that we came up with last night that if you're a guy who doesn't have a girlfriend in the house after 7 p.m you kind of go a bit insane dude what do you do i i could tell you i have a friend who is single and lives on his own now and i just get like random headstand pictures.

1:12:49I'm like, are you doing headstands? Like, what are you doing? You're stretching? Like it's 830. What are you stretching for? You're getting like, how hard do you go to bed? Like it's time for sleep soon. Like, what are you doing? Like, it's like random things like that. I think I asked him recently. I was like, what do you do all day? He's a very busy guy. I don't want to take away, but like during those hours it's like how do you entertain yourself because at this point i don't know how to do that when like my fiance leaves i'm kind of like what the hell do i do now like there's no one here like i just kind of like walk around i like clean shit and then i just like there's not much to do like i'm like oh this is kind of boring am i gonna go for a walk i don't know you find yourself building weird hobbies so yeah i was leaving the house last night to go to dinner with you because you're an insane person and decided to have dinner at 7 30 p.m which for me is like is that not fucking late what are we talking about that's pretty fucking late that's an austin thing that's not late that's fucking 7 30 is late okay we're split 50 50 in the room 7 30 yeah well you was on fucking uh so i'm leaving the house and his girlfriend's in costa rica and he looks at me and he looked really sad and he came up and he whispered and he was like I don't know what to do I said where are you going?

1:14:12I don't know what to do like puppy dog eyes he's like I don't know what to do I'm like George it's fine you'll do I don't know what you'll read stuff or whatever and I got back and he'd written all of this stuff and he had post-it notes everywhere so he'd done he was doing headstands yeah he'd done his equivalent of doing headstands yeah and then at 10.30pm just 11 o 'clock after I got back from dinner I must have heard him sneeze 15 times in a row. What the hell was he doing? Fucking 15 times in a row. This is agitating to me. Yeah. How annoying must that be if you're the sort of, what's the most number of times you've ever sneezed in a row?

1:14:50I've never gotten close to 15. I think you die if you do that. Yeah. I think I've done like five good ones and then everyone tells you to shut the fuck up. You get two sneezes. Imagine 15. 15, bro. 15, I mean, I'm kicking this guy out of my house. get the fuck out I know you wrote those post-it notes earlier on and you've been lonely tonight but it does not excuse you sneezing 15 times 15's crazy is he dead I actually I haven't seen him today maybe yeah he's probably dead dude you should probably check on him doesn't it isn't like a there was like an old like thing it's like if you sneeze your like heart stops I'm like 15 ask chat GPT if you sneeze does your heart stop or something like that fucking wait for this the AI is gonna be like what idiot acts that question no No, what does happen is sneezing briefly changes the pressure inside your chest.

1:15:39That pressure change can slightly affect blood flow and momentarily alter your heart rhythm, which is why some people feel like their heart skips a beep at the heart. Oh, so he's altering his blood flow like crazy in there. But the worst thing was I thought it was over and then there would be a 30 second break. And then it would come back. I'm like, fucking what? Oh, is he like a loud? He's a loud sneezing. Oh, he's a real loud one. He's got a big nose. I would prefer that. I hate people who sneeze like inside their bodies. It scares me, dude. I'm like, yo, you're going to hurt your neck or something.

1:16:10Your eyes are going to explode out of your head. Chill. I have a friend that does that. I'm like, yo, just open your mouth. All of this can be fixed. It just comes out naturally if you just let your lips flap. Do you think? Poof. I wonder if there's a personality trait, if there's a commonality between the sort of people who keep the sneezing. Oh, man. What is it? I mean, it's not really like a learned thing, I guess. You just kind of like - It's weird when you're driving. I get scared when I'm driving. Bro, first of all, you want to talk about that? My dad, by the way, I'm convinced he's allergic to the sun.

1:16:46I don't know what's going on, but sometimes he would drive me to school when I was in high school. We would get in the car. First thing he does is before he starts the car, he would take his key and clean out his ears with the key, right? is this just the guy he is i don't know that and he's deaf he's not deaf but he might as well definitely deaf after sticking the car key in his ear if he went to the doctor they'd be like you're deaf but he because he can't hear but he's been shoving car keys in his ears like that then he would start the car right that would take 10 minutes because it's a you know it's a completely fucked up minivan uh and then we would be driving on the highway and he would he would let off 10 on the highway.

1:17:29We're going 60, 70 and he's sneezing and I'm looking at him like, my guy, we're, we're drifting. Okay. We're not in a middle lane right now. Like we're on the, we're on a highway. You got to chill the fuck out. And just, so I was scared for my life mostly when I was going to high school because of that. Um, yeah. And there was a time where he used to drive around in a like a work van because he was like a he worked construction he would throw us in the back there wasn't any seats back there it was just me and my brother yeah yeah yeah and there's tools there's you know two by fours and wood and there's a saw yeah there's like a fucking miter saw there and I'm like I'm sitting on the edge of the miter saw hoping that he doesn't hit the brakes because the thing's gonna go right to my spine but this is like what he would do And I really believe that he's allergic to the sun Like he's an interesting guy His whole tooth came out one time The entire tooth Like if you google cartoon tooth Like the ones on commercials That have like a toothbrush and dance They got like the fangs or whatever That came out of his mouth How does that even happen to a person?

1:18:40When? What was he doing? Sleeping He wasn't even chewing gum He wasn't doing anything He just popped out of his mouth You know what you should have done? Headstands before he went to bed I went to church I prayed. Headstands. Yeah, no, he's not doing a headstand. Not now. That's how hard he sleeps. Dude, his tooth popped out in his sleep, which is insane. And then he just like, usually when that happens - He must grind his teeth. He's got to grind his teeth. He's got to be. Bro, I mean - It's either that or the same demons that got Tucker Carlson in his sleep. How strong is his jaw? Is it like the fucking gorilla's jaw?

1:19:11Or is someone walking in there and hitting him with a bat in the mouth? Over a bunch of yours, I think you can pretty easily crack a tooth by grinding your teeth. But the tooth was intact. It was a tooth. it was just a tooth I'm looking at a tooth actually yeah his body was just like was it a molar? I'm not a dentist I don't know if it was a molar it was an incisor whatever the fuck that shit is called I have no idea what is that going to do for you also knowing which tooth it was which tooth was it makes so much more sense it wasn't one of his front tooth though you could hide it it was one of the back ones maybe it was a molar but it popped out and usually you're like oh shit, I should go to the dentist because I'm probably dying.

1:19:51That's what I would think. And then he just put it in his sock drawer and he went back to sleep. And then we never really talked about it until now. Now he's going to see this thing and he's going to remember like, yeah, your fucking tooth popped up. Oh shit. I need to get that out my sock drawer and put it back in. Oh fuck. Yeah. Where is that thing? We kept it though. We kept it. My parents used to keep our teeth. Your parents do that? Is that an American thing or British thing? I think that's a British thing. They kept your teeth? Well, yeah, because our teeth look like cigarettes. Yeah, you guys have crazy teeth.

1:20:21Bro, it's crazy how some of the stereotypes, like I heard someone from Europe was like, I saw a TikTok of being like walking around an American airport and it's like, this is like insane. Like everyone just like looks what you think in America. It was like an overweight person with Shake Shack in their hand or something like that. But then the UK thing is like, oh, they got bad teeth and beans on toast or whatever. First of all, beans on toast, low key, I like it. High key. High key though, teeth are... Not good. Not that I have the best teeth in the world either. But they got some stuff going on over there for sure.

1:20:55Not good. What is that? Is that just like... I don't know. We've got nationalized healthcare. So I think the fact that you can get... The number one reason for bankruptcy in America is medical bills is like fucking insane. But... Just don't pay it. Easy. Boom. Not paying it. I think that's how you go bankrupt. I'm not... But you're not getting the money from me. Where are you getting it? But then do they not come and take stuff from you? Like your house? And your dog? My dog? People are getting murdered if they try to take my dog, dude. The shotgun blast is coming through the fucking door. You're not even going to get in here.

1:21:30Okay. I can see the diplomacy that has gotten you through your career so far. Between kidnapping your sister and kicking her door down. It's passion. It's just passion. Yeah, dude. It's my passion. It's my ambition without direction. Yeah, yeah. When I've got an Academy Award, I can shoot everybody I want in the face. No, no, no. I mean, yeah. Some of the medical bills are just insane. But the dental thing I don't get because we have free dental. Yeah. So everybody goes to get their teeth looked after. Maybe the dentists in the UK are not good. I don't know. There'll be a dentist listening that'll say, well, actually it's because of, maybe it's just, you know, just where you are in the world.

1:22:04I have no idea. Shit weather gives you bad teeth. I don't know. It's just something. Some fucking weird. Jared, you ever considered that you might have a drinking problem? I don't consider a lot, Chris. Well, you drank an entire case of Athletic Brewing Coke last night. But they're non-alcoholic. And that's not a problem? Sorry, man. I just kept chugging, waiting for the regret to creep in. Never happened. See, most people, like Jared, don't want to change what they drink. They just don't want the next day to be a complete write-off. And that is why I'm such a huge fan of Athletic Brewing Coke.

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1:23:16all right so you said um you've got these sort of two sides of your brain that are working and you've got the business side and then you've got the creativity side how do you protect the creative side of your brain when the business side never stops demanding attention fortunately for me i don't really need to do that but you did for a long time what you did have to do both of those things no no i'm saying i i don't have to separate them okay like i can be creative and that helps my business um i'm not good at multitasking so like if i like if i'm as much as i will be like i'm listening when i'm texting someone and someone's talking to me i can't i can't even hear anything and i have this thing too with like noise like i think it's called misophonia but it's like if there's like a couple of sounds going on i just can't i'm so distracted that's me too i can't read unless it's like huh i just thought yeah i thought that was being an only being an autistic only child again it could be i don't know but i mean someone when there's noises going on you're super easily distracted and you can't focus i it would really bother like certain noises like really bother me not not certain specific noises but when they're like if the tv is on and someone's phone is playing like a video really loud like I can't even focus.

1:24:33Or if I'm watching a movie and the AC is uneven, I got to shut it off. I can't. I just can't focus. The reason why I say that is because if I had to separate those two things, I don't really think I could. I have worked normal jobs before, obviously. And once the... The creative thing is so intense with me that there are times where I had an idea one time for an app. I don't even know what's going on. I don't know why. I didn't actually want to do it, But sometimes when I, an idea will pop into my head and I, and I have to flush it out right now. And, and I sent it to Greg and he was like, this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

1:25:10And I was like, yeah, I just needed to get it off. But I, I was driving to the gym and I had this idea and I was like, Ooh, that sounds like a good idea. Like I'm going to start whatever. And I was like in my car doing it. And then I got so distracted. I'm like, I have to go home so that I could finish this. So I left and I went home and I didn't even get into the gym. I just turned my car around and went home and I typed this whole thing out and I was like, yeah. and I sent it to Greg and I was like, what do you think about this? He's like, so stupid. And I'm like, cool. I'm going to the gym.

1:25:35Go back to the gym. But that's how intense it is for me. Like I can't multitask and feel like, like once I'm creatively inspired by something, like it has to happen now. Like there are so many times where I don't know how this happens, but I'll wake up first thing and write like a joke or something. I wrote most of my set for MSG that I did at MSG at that time. Like waking up and being like, oh, I don't even know what that's about. Because it wasn't necessarily about my dream. Okay, so the line between sleeping and waking, I can give you at least a bit of science that might explain it. Oh, love this.

1:26:10So the brainwave that you want to get into when you're in flow state is one step away from what you're in when you're sleeping. So a lot of engineers throughout history would, Nobel Prize winners, would sit on seats with ball bearings or something metal in their hand over a plate. And they'd be thinking about an idea, but they'd be relaxing and they'd have their eyes closed. And as they were drifting off and drifting off and drifting off, and then their hand would open as they fell asleep and they'd drop the loud thing into the plate and it would clang. And then they would get up to try and work on the problem.

1:26:49Fucking no way. Yeah. That makes so much sense. That's how a bunch of the biggest problems in science have been solved. What? Damn, I'm going to start paying attention in the fucking morning now. Well, there's another line. So the guys from Flow Research Collective who work on the science of flow, they try to engineer people to get into flow states more easily. The number one hack, the easiest hack for anybody to get into flow, begin working within 30 seconds of waking up. Dude, that is fascinating to me. Because that's literally like, I had no explanation for it. I don't even remember the dream that I had, but I woke up and I immediately had a joke.

1:27:27but I would write it down Do you think you'd have gone to bed thinking about maybe something to do with MSG like it would have been a part of your evening? Maybe. Or it's just in the back of your... Well you care about it what you're doing is you're allowing your subconscious to come through at least a little bit but yeah that line between sleeping and waking if you're struggling with an idea. I mean that's why people say all the cliches are kind of true which is sleep on it. Yeah. Sleep on it, sleep on it, see how you feel in the morning and a lot of the time you've consolidated your memories and your thoughts from yesterday last night and now it's the morning and you've kind of got it in a new perspective there you go wow you're using science dude honestly that is fascinating i'm stealing that take it take it put it in the park wasn't gonna ask uh there's a a line that i fucking love which is you can't white knuckle creativity that i think when you try and force it it almost never comes out like your best ideas your best jokes have you ever can you ever remember a time when you've tried to really force a piece of creativity and it's come through because for me it it never happens no it's like an erection the harder you try for it the more it runs away runs away it does run away from you it's a good metaphor um yeah i i am horrible at that especially like it's like okay i'm gonna set aside time and i'm gonna do creative i can't do it without someone's help i think that greg's probably better at that because we work like creatively in a lot of things, but he's also very good at like prompting me.

1:28:57Like if I can get a prompt or I can get like something, like a seed of an idea, then I'm in and we can start doing this right now. But for me to go from zero to a creative thought, like that's always been very difficult for me. Riffing is significantly easier. Insanely. Yeah. Insanely. Yeah, that is better. I have never been in a writer's room, really, for much, But for Newtonic, we do skits and sketches and stuff for the different ads and new flavor releases and things like that. And then we've done some for my tour announcements. And I didn't realize that what we were doing was sitting in a writer's room.

1:29:36I'm aware that this has been done for like fucking 100 years. And people realize that if you come in with an idea and you have a bunch of people who are all working on the same thing at the same time, you go, why don't we? No, no. Well, what if we? And you bounce that around. but it doesn't just need to be constrained to people that are making movies right can be anybody in a team okay let's just come in with some ideas and talk about what the fuck's going on and if you've got one person that's at least a bit diligent the person who's got a shit ton of creativity kind of gets jumping off points but i don't know about you but i get really excitable and enthusiastic when stuff like that i'm like oh yeah yeah and and then but it does need that and it's like rolling a boulder down a hill just needs that push at the start i'm really bad at pushing it i'm really fucking good at rolling down a hill yeah and sometimes all it takes is a question or like even the worst idea i've ever heard to be like no this like it's like i just can't go from zero to a hundred like no it's zero to one zero to one yeah yeah definitely and then one to a hundred piece of piss yeah yeah yeah exactly like it's just it's one of those things that like i just need to be sort of prompted or whatever because i i can like kind of put things off and part of that i think is kind of like i when there's pressure i feel like i can perform and i like if there's pressure like i'd rather that be on me because i feel like okay i'm we're gonna live i'll i can live and die by like my decisions or whatever but i just need that like that little push.

1:31:16Like if it's up to me, like it's all through school or whatever, like I'm up the night before like finishing things and whatever, like I can't get ahead of it because I don't know. Like, I mean, I think this is a horrible like way to be like, you could stack things and kind of get ahead on those things. Like now it's different. I mean, professionally it's, it's a little easier to like, I've, I've had a lot of practice, but it's not natural to me. I've had to work at it. Like very, like, I've had to work on it a lot to get to the point where I can come up with ideas out of thin air. I would say an overwhelming majority of any sort of creative decision or thing that I've ever made in my life has come out of nowhere.

1:32:02It kind of just enters your brain. But if we're having a conversation about, we're doing the new tour at the end of the year, and it's like, well, we have to create a brand new show. And I won't just do that. I have to have Greg be like, so, we need a new show. Here's what I was thinking, an idea like, hey, what do you think about this as an idea? and then magically I'll have four ideas and then I'll be able to be like, okay, you know, whatever. Like I need, like that is where I, it like unlocks ideas that are probably in there, but I can't start the conversation for some reason. Also, Greg and Frank love to say that, well, everyone, they love to say that like there is, sometimes they'll have an idea and then a week later I'll say their idea and act like it's mine.

1:33:00and they're like oh yeah no no one said that no big deal i'm like wait you want someone to say that because i'm i'm like when someone says something i'm like okay i'm like really taking it in and i can't do two two things at once so i'm like walking around with it and not actively thinking about it but like it's there so by the time it comes back i've already forgotten the origin and it's like i've just been lost in the idea or something and now it just comes out and people are like, yeah, fucking said that. I'm like, okay. Sorry. It's a great idea. Sorry. Yeah. Don't take yourself too seriously, but do take the work seriously.

1:33:35Absolutely. I mean, it's similar to what I was saying before where you have to be humble. Like, don't take yourself too seriously. I mean, especially me at the end of the day, like, the fuck am I doing? I'm like, you know, I'm not changing lives here. Like I'm trying to be funny, trying to be entertaining. I'm doing a podcast with my friend that I've known the longest. and I have like a very, you know, it's demanding, but like it's a fun job ultimately. And like my job is to have fun. And I do take it very seriously, especially at this point, because I think that a lot of people from what I've seen, like our fans, they get a lot from it.

1:34:11It helps them escape things. I don't necessarily feel that part because that's hard to imagine that I could be that for someone, even though I can very much imagine other people being that for me. I can't imagine that. So I take it very seriously because I want to earn it. I want to be good at something. I want other people in the space to respect the things that I've done and the approach and those sort of things. But at the same time, I'm not over here like, you know, I'm changing the world or I'm doing whatever. And I don't know that I'll ever have that, to be honest with you. I mean, I don't think that helps anybody to take yourself super seriously and act just arrogant about their decisions.

1:35:01Even when you get the thing that you've been working for for so long, now's not the time to be like, I fucking told you. Because that also feels like, did you do that in spite of someone? I'm not doing anything in spite of somebody or because I'm insecure and I need to appear a certain way to other people. Like this is for me. I want to do it and I enjoy doing it. So that's my motivation. Like I'm trying to just enjoy my life and I'm trying to help as many people as I can. Truly. Like that's truly what I'm trying to do. That's it. And it's very simple. And I'm completely content in that. And I'll try to find new ways to do that.

1:35:40I believe that I can find new ways to do that. And that's it. And it's also very important for me to make sure that everyone is happy while we're doing it because our job is to have fun and to entertain other people. But in order to do that, you need to be happy, right? I can't have you be disgruntled. I can't have you feel like, and also like my company, the things that, the way that I run things, like you're not going to miss a birthday or you're not going to miss, your marriage isn't going to go by the wayside. because of me. Like, that's not going to happen. Like, we're very flexible at what time.

1:36:18No one's late to shit that I have to do. Like, you can't be late to things. I mean, I was late today, but that was like a, that was a, that was a time zone thing. That wasn't like a respect thing. My eyes just kept getting wider and wider. You were late, dude. But like, I, like, no one can be like late for stuff. Like, we'll, we'll get it done, whatever. But you know, there's, there's people who have children and it's like, you're, you're there for the morning. You're there for, you know the evening and we have a very loose like a work schedule and i want that i want there to be this balance i do see my job as an extension of me but it's a completely different part of my life my personal life is very important to me and i and i truly like live a great life i have a like a great social life and friends and i like to go out and stuff like that and i do enjoy my job as well but it feels like two separate worlds in a way it's rare mine does too it's rare that i would get around people like i really wouldn't enjoy i don't think hanging out with people and the and when i hang out with them we're always talking about podcasting or you know just something that i'm doing at work because i'd be like bro i just like i'm just not interested in it that much to to be honest with you.

1:37:33I'm interested in what I'm doing it. I can't do it when I'm kind of like, we can acknowledge that I have a job that does that or whatever, but I'm just not interested in it that much. I don't really watch a lot of podcasts. I don't watch any real YouTubers or anything like that. It's just not what I'm into. I just have a normal life and I do this thing on the side. That's kind of what it feels like. I always think about MMA fighters and kind of friends with a couple, but no one super super high level but if you were friends with fucking sean strickland or whatever and actually sean's a bad bad example because he's an insane who's a who's a really normal person that happens to be a super high level dustin poirier yeah perfect example or like michael chandler someone like that like just normal dudes that happen like if they didn't wear things that showed off the fact that they're fucking animals and then you're like you're such a normal guy except for this bit of your life right and then in this one area if i put you in a very specific situation you're the most abnormal person on the planet and i guess it's kind of a fucking porn star something like hey in this one scenario yeah things are kind of extreme and outside of that you're probably just a normal fucking dude yeah and it's like that much as obvious that like, I'm not over here.

1:38:56Like I'm just a normal guy. Like my life is not fucking outrageous or anything, but I, I, there is a definite feel of like, these things are separate and it's important for me to have that and to make sure that everyone is, has a flexible schedule. I think that's the ultimate dream, right? You want to be able to, at least for me and the people that I've hired and keep around me is like, we want to be creative. We want to be able to see our families and have freedom to do certain things. And I also encourage anybody that works for me or does whatever to like, if you have your own creative thing that you want to do, I'm in full support of that.

1:39:33Like, and if we can help in some sort of way, we will. And I just, my job is a lot easier if everyone's happy. So I try to keep people as happy as possible. Like, of course, there's times we have to like sort of reel that in a little bit, but for the most part it's like this needs to be a good experience when we go on tour like we're not staying in like just this like the cheapest hotel where i'm trying to like book a really cool airbnb or something that has like a pool and a cool view or whatever because i want people to feel like we're all going to look back on this thing in our life this is not a normal thing like no one gets to do this this is very abnormal and i want people to look back on it and feel like that was such a great time in my life.

1:40:17Like I know that I will look back on some of those pictures and now we have all these memories attached to them. Not just the fact that like, oh my God, that was so cool that we were able to do that when we were younger, but also like, oh, do you remember when we went and did this thing too? And when we were blah, blah, blah, like we tried to go to all these cities and do something fun and try to get it on camera or like there's photos and things like that. Like I want it to be something that you can look back on like super fondly. You know what I mean? So that is very important to me. I do enjoy being able to think about that, which is an absolute like luxury that I even get to do that.

1:40:56Because a lot of people who are in charge of something, they don't, they can't. They have shareholders or whatever and it's just about the numbers. It's just me. That's like that, you know what I mean? So it's like, I just have to make sure everyone's super happy and we're all being creative how else do you think about engineering fun there's a lot of people a lot of people take their work seriously but it can cause them to become quite rigid it can cause everything to become it can go from serious to stern if that makes sense and they're not loose and flowy and not actually finding time to enjoy this process they're very very focused on the outcome kind of the cost of getting there yeah how do you think about engineering fun so it's not sternness when you're doing your work i think that the only way it can be that can become stern is if you're trying to like manufacture it like if you're trying like we're gonna have fun it's like fuck that's not how you do it you know like i'm happy right now i swear it's like you're not like do the things that make you happy, like follow the excitement, like do those things.

1:42:06If it doesn't resonate with you and it doesn't feel like in line with what you want to do, even if it's good money or whatever, like I will say no. What's the biggest opportunity that you've ever turned down? I mean, I turned down doing the tour for a number of years because at that point, a lot of people were like, you could just go on stage and talk to each other and then you could make a bunch of money doing that. And I'm like, that's just not, no, that's not cool. Like I'm not doing that. And I don't care. Like there was a time i remember specifically when i was doing youtube um there was a brand deal that came in for 75 000 and what they wanted was for me to and this was kind of abnormal at the time to promote a phone game that was like something with zombies i was like what but they wanted which I was okay with doing, but I always did advertisements at the very end of my video.

1:43:03And that's the way I did things because I was like, the product needs to be there. I mean, people are going to shut it off, but like, whatever, I'm going to stay true to that because I'm building something here. But they wanted me to put it in the first like 30 seconds or a minute. And that's why they were paying$75 ,000. And I was like, I'm not doing that. Like, I'm not doing that. And there's, there's been other deals. I mean, it happens a lot. There's, there's been six figure deals that i'm like no i'm not doing that because i don't want to do that because the brand wasn't aligned or it's like they just want me to do something that i'm not comfortable doing that i'm just like no like i won't why would i do that especially i'm also i'm almost offended that and it used to be worse my agent one time i was i was uh i did this thing um with the rock right so hey this is a good example actually with this i got hit up through my email from the rocks team and he was starting his youtube channel at the time this was a while ago and they were going to do this uh this series called rock the promo where they would have wrestlers kind of like as a guest host and then they would have like you know just people who wanted to be whatever they were like cut promos they would like have a character that's a good idea yeah so that's that was on the youtube channel they asked me to host it to be the guy that hosts and then does like color color commentary and i was like oh my god that's awesome they're like yeah it's the rock and like the finale you'll you'll be with him and you guys will do it together and i was like this is awesome and they're like yeah it's filming in la and we'll need you there for like two weeks or whatever and i was like oh forget it no like i'm not doing that why because i didn't want to go to la i i i was making youtube videos and i was doing my podcast at the time which wasn't like super successful or anything but i like had a schedule and i liked that and I like my life.

1:44:53You're asking me to go there for two weeks. It also at the time didn't pay a lot, but that didn't really matter because it could have been whatever. I mean, unless it was like life changing, then I would have been like, all right, fuck all this. I'm going. Um, cause I didn't have a lot of money at that time, but I was like, no, I can't like, I'm not doing that. Apparently he really wanted me to do it. So they moved the recording to New York and we recorded it in New York. And then the part that's funny is like, that's why I'm saying? Like it used to be worse because when someone tries to incentivize me with money, that bothers me like crazy.

1:45:27If like, you think that you could have bought me with that. It's like, all right, I want you to do this. And I'm like, I don't want to do that. It's like, all right, what if we give you this money? It's like, what do you think of me that you can buy me into? Like, I just said, I don't want to do it. You know what I mean? Like it won't be about the money. So in this situation, it was funny. The thing that I hated also back then was like, you're going to a meeting and people start name dropping. Like, yeah, we work with this and this and this and I'm like I don't care why do I care like let's talk about the thing that we're doing is it going to be good can you be helpful or can I be helpful even and on the set of uh by the way amazing thing with the rocks team and I eventually met him and well that's a cool story that I should tell you but on set the uh the PA there was like saying something and then she's like oh yeah uh she like mentioned someone's name and then she was like oh and I was like well I was like what was that she's like oh your agent was like try not to name drop because that bothers you and i was like oh god what have i done i was like what is this monster that reputation procedure yeah i was like oh my god i'm like it's not that bad i'm like not definitely not in this sort of situation because you know i was just happy to be there um but the rock dude was the nicest guy in my experience like i hadn't had any back and forth with him at all during this this thing and then the finale of this thing was filming in Vegas and he was going to be there.

1:46:52He was flying from Hawaii, filming one of the Jumanjis, I guess, and coming back, doing this thing, then going to host the Mr. Olympia, whatever the fuck, and then going back to Hawaii in one day. Psychotic. But on the way over to Vegas, I'm like on the plane and I'm by myself. So I'm like, I'm just going to kill some time. I'm going to write a sketch and then I'm going to send it to his producer because I had his email and I'm like, oh, if The Rock wants to be on my YouTube channel, like here's, you know, whatever. So I wrote this thing out and I sent it to his producer. Never heard anything, but get to set and he shows up eventually and everyone's like crowding him, you know, whatever.

1:47:42And I'm kind of like, now I'm like nervous because I'm like, okay, I can't fuck this up. Like I had some lines that I had to, whatever. And I was like hosting this thing. He comes up to me, the nicest guy in the world. Like, like we're boys, like the guy by the end of the shoot, like we were joking around in between takes. The director's like, all right, fucking stop. Like it was, it was kind of like that. Like, come on, we got to fucking, we got time or whatever. Like we were just joking around. The guy who was doing the lighting on the set was like, how long have you guys known each other? I'm like, I just fucking met that guy.

1:48:11He's like, what i thought you guys were friends for years like he was super nice to me at the end of the shoot he comes up to me and he goes uh i know you sent that script but uh you know and i was like what the fuck is he talking about i had forgotten i was already like this is an amazing experience so i was like what the fuck is he talking about some script and he's like i can't do the script but what do you say we just like improv like a scene and he's and i was like okay and he's like what do you want the scene to be i was like okay why don't we just have like an argument that you know i wasn't your like first or second choice to be host and i'll just get offended by that and at the end you'll just give me a rock bottom and he was like all right cool so then they turn the cameras on and we just improv to scene one take and we and i put it out and like there's a video on my youtube channel where do we watch that can you get that up i want to see you getting rock bottomed if we could find it i it cuts in the middle i didn't like hit the deck i would have liked to i did get a diamond cutter though one time what's that from ddp diamond dallas page He's like a wrestler.

1:49:10And the job that me and Greg, we met at, we used to work for this company, Elite Daily, he came in to shoot a video, and we all were just like, yo, can you give us a diamond cutter? Because there was a pad that we had, so he's just diamond cutting everyone in the office. There he is. It was a different time. Don't judge the tightness of my pants. Hey, listen, man. I just want to thank you for doing such a great job on Rock the Promo. I really appreciate being your first round draft pick for this. It really, that means a lot to me. Oh, hey, no problem. I don't know first round. What if first round?

1:49:40You mean like my first choice? Yeah, yeah. Well, you weren't quite my first choice, but hey. Wait, hold on. Hey. Time out. Hold on. No, no, no. So I wasn't your first choice. So they lied to me. You guys lied to me. Great. Because I was told I was first round. Who was first then? Hey, hey, easy. It was Kevin Hart. I know you guys are like basically dating now. You're hanging out all the time on Instagram. Easy, calm down. Hey, but listen. Okay, I'll get over it. Relax, please relax. Second place is fine. Silver, I'm cool with silver. You weren't first choice. Okay. Buddy, come on. You weren't second choice.

1:50:06I wasn't second choice. So now I'm not second choice. No, you're not second choice either. Listen, I don't know who lied to you, okay? But listen, you weren't first choice, but you were a great choice, right? How about that? Yeah, that's something you tell losers, okay? Listen, okay, okay, bronze. I'm on the podium, whatever. I appreciate it. What the fuck you get so angry about? What's the matter? Third place, it's fine. Oh, it's cool, whatever. Listen, all right, well, here's the truth. Well, you're being an asshole right now. You weren't first, you weren't second, you weren't third, okay? Here's third, right?

1:50:33Here's here, and you were way the fuck, okay? That's where you were, but it's cool dude cuz you did a great job. That's un-fucking-believable You have some balls in front of all these people just to say some shit like that to me? You get angry like that for? What's the matter with you? I'm all the way in the fucking corner with the dirt. There's dust and shit. No, you've been sucking dick for beer money for ten years. I bought you on the shelf. That is not true. That is not true. I've never sucked any dicks for beer money ever in my whole life. Yeah, you have. I know, but it's between us. Not one dick.

1:51:00Stop it. And how do you know that? How'd you just think that people - Be grateful. How do you know people even suck dick for beer money? I'm grateful, okay? Okay, yeah, I'm grateful. For movie tickets. How many times, remember? Zero times. Stop it. Yeah, how many times you go, yeah, I'll get your tickets. You want to go to my premiere? It's going to be awesome. And I'm like, yeah, I'm down. And then I get there and you're like, and people are like, no, I don't know who the fuck you are. You're not on this list. Very nice of you. Very nice. Did you have a good time on the show? Huh? It was nice.

1:51:22Okay. I did. All right. It was good. Come on, buddy. Okay, I'm sorry. Thank you. Jesus. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Come on, get in here. Unreal. It was a lot of fun. But that was such a crazy thing. And that was very early on in my career doing this too. So it was a cool opportunity. Looking back on it, I do have regrets of being like, no, not going to go to LA. Because who are you to say that you're not going to go to LA? but I give myself some grace because I do think that like, especially at that time I was like protecting myself. Like I really wanted to, I felt very strongly about the authenticity thing.

1:52:05And I'm like, I have to just do the things that I think are right in this moment. And I'll probably be wrong. I mean, even decisions that I make today, I could, I will probably look back on and be like, I would have done that differently. But I, but you can't, you can't like beat yourself up about that. Like that, maybe that was the right choice for that time. How do you know the difference between being authentic and impulsive? I don't think that I did. I don't think I did. I mean, I like to think that I'm not a... You know what I mean? You can make a rash decision like that and go, well, that felt authentic or that feels authentic to me, but it's actually maybe a decision that you haven't been sufficiently considerate around.

1:52:43Sure. I think that I make an effort to not make emotional decisions. So if I'm very angry and I would like to say no, I'm like, I got to walk away from this so that I can make a decision not based on that. So I think that's a helpful thing through therapy is emotional decision-making. I mean, it can be good and bad. It can work out, but also you can live to regret that because you're like, oh, I made that when I was not in the clearest headspace. Or I did that in spite of something. That's also a thing that I desperately try not to do. I don't want to do anything in spite of something. I want to do something.

1:53:22Try and prove someone else or something else. Yeah, that would just be an insecurity thing. Like I'm, I'm trying to be a secure person, which I consider myself like a secure person, especially when it comes to like creative stuff like that. Like, of course I have moments of insecurity, but when it comes to decision-making, I need to be in a, in a point and, and like give myself some credit for like, you've, you've made it this far following your gut and your intuition. So just make a call. And if you're wrong, which I've been wrong many times, it's my fault. Fine. but I what I can't live with is someone be like a like a an agent or something being like this is the thing for you this is what you have to do and then I end up doing that and I don't like it and it doesn't work out because a lot of stuff now doesn't work out for people like creatively like shit doesn't work all the time like that's part of the job kind of but like if if it was on them I'd be furious because then it would feel like oh my god I like i let it go for a second i let go of the reins and i let someone dictate you know and i knew my failure yeah like i can't even like my failure is that i let you make the decision almost you know like there's a the word that's coming to mind is conviction doing something with conviction yeah and uh both me and george big nose sneezes a lot our co-theme for 2026 is high conviction we both want to be more high conviction with things so that's when i have a sense that this is the right thing commit to that thing yeah and it is way better to be high conviction and fail than low conviction and fail way better.

1:55:15Because at least when you're high conviction and fail, you get to learn, you get to update, you get to, oh, I'm fine. Okay. I went for that. Next time when I go for it again, I'll do it slightly differently or I'll go for something else. But the low conviction failure thing, you're not even moving. You're just being sort of swept along. You're not learning decision-making. And again, it's that sliding versus deciding thing. But no point did you decide for this to happen. You just sort of fell into it. I also want to make it clear that I don't think that I'm just right. Like, I think I'm, like, it's not that I think I'm right.

1:55:54It's like, I think, well, actually, maybe that is what I'm trying to say, is that if I believe that I'm right, then I'm like, okay, but I don't think you're wrong. Like, I think you're right too. And I think everyone is right. And I think you need to like, trust yourself. Like your intuition, if you can really sit with yourself and you know yourself and you're sitting there, like, this is the thing. You're right. like you're right. Just believe that you're right. And just keep following that. Like allow yourself to make mistakes. Allow yourself to believe in yourself and allow the belief to dictate your behavior.

1:56:24Like you'll be surprised where that could bring you. It just like drags you along when you can really be like, this is what feels like the right decision in this moment. It doesn't even have to be professionally. It could be like personally or whatever. If you are sitting somewhere and you know like, okay, I don't want to make an emotional decision. And you have that awareness and you're like, I just need to do what's best for me, what I truly believe in my heart. You're right. Like you have to be right. Cause it's you, it's your life. Like you're in charge of everything. Like it's your life. You'll make the decisions.

1:56:51Everything is your fault. Everything that goes wrong is your fault. But what that means is that everything that you get out of life is because of you too. And you should be happy for the good things in your life. And that can get hard because when things start going bad, you're like, I'm fucking my shit up right now but it makes the wins like that much sweeter i think then when when people can get to the point where one time it only needs to happen one time where you like really feel deeply about something and then it ends up being right and you get the validation or you it's correct and you get that from the situation you realize that you can do that like that is a huge moment like I can feel something so deeply and then that's how I made my decision and then it ended up being the right path that's so powerful instead of overthinking stopping yourself which a lot of people do overthinking it and being like well no because of this this and this and whatever like just what is the thing you feel it's like make it simpler and this is why like the authenticity thing I think is important because what is it just driving you and it seems very almost like selfish in a way, but it's like, it's further back than that.

1:58:07It's not a self-serving thing. It's like, I, it's just something, I just believe, like it's a belief in me that I just need to see play out. Without being, by the way,

1:58:23I don't even know the right word, but just like, not in like a negative way, like I need to get my way because I'm not that person whatsoever. Just, There's a belief though, that I'm like, I just believe that I'm right. And I can be wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that I believed. And I get to a point and I'm okay with being wrong because that's fine. The only thing that I need is to believe something. I've said that word a thousand times already, but it's true. That's kind of how I feel about all the decisions or every single opinion that I have. I need to believe all my opinions. I don't have any opinions that I'm kind of like, oh, I don't know.

1:58:57If I spent time with it and I have an opinion, like I have an opinion and I, and I believe in it and I will like fight for it. But if you say something that completely destroys my shit, my shit is gone. I'm not, I have no ego. I can get rid of it. I will keep this one now, you know, like I'm so willing to learn and, uh, and to grow. Like I want that. I welcome that. I want to be wrong. Like I want to be wrong. Like I need to, I need to believe that I'm right, but I actually want to be wrong. Like I actually do. Cause then that's where the growth comes. Like now I'm, now I can get better, you know, like actually doing good.

1:59:35Like, I don't think that a lot of people just want to live in a comfort zone, right? They just want to live in a space that makes them, that just validates them completely all the time. And they, it's, it's whatever some, not all people, but like some people want to live in there. I actually don't believe that having comfort every single day of your life will result in some sort of net positive. I think that it's only a matter of time where you get restless and you'll create a problem because you don't have any problems. At least for me, and I don't know this to be right, I'm just some idiot, but it almost feels like humans are not designed that way.

2:00:15You need purpose and part of purpose is challenge. You need something to challenge you. But if your actions are just putting you back in your comfort zone, what do you get? Like you're setting yourself up to fail almost. Not only are you not growing, forget about that, but this thing that feels very innate of challenges and purpose of being a human being or whatever, whatever that may mean, it's different for everybody. If you don't have that, it's like, where do you think you're going? Like that's gonna deteriorate your mental health almost. You're done, you've already done everything and now you're just gonna, you're just done.

2:00:50You know, like a part of me doesn't understand why there are people who work on Wall Street that make fucking$80 million a year and they work 80 hours a week still. And it's like, bro, you got fucking$250 million in the bank. Do something else. Like, but part of me does get it. Part of me does get why there is that. because it's like, I don't know, that I have like a weird relationship with it because I do understand the feeling of like, it's not necessarily about the money anymore. But I also think that like a work-life balance is very important. I'm not working super hard to have$250 million.

2:01:33I don't care. I don't care about having$250 million. I want to enjoy my life. You know, like I don't want to like work my entire life and then the payoff is things that I could be doing now. Like you want to hang out with your friends? You want to see your family or spend time? You can, you can. You're going to sacrifice your entire life all these years to what? The end goal is like, well, now I can sit back and relax and just enjoy my time. Brother, you can do it now. Have you ever heard the parable of the Mexican fisherman? Have you heard this? He's Mexican in this one? I thought he was from a different country, honestly.

2:02:10Which fisherman is this? I don't know. It could have been, I don't know. Okay. An American investment banker was at a small pier on a small coastal town, village, when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took him to catch them. The Mexican replied, only a little while. The American then asked, why didn't you stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. The American then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time?

2:02:40The Mexican fisherman said, I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, and stroll into the village every evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life. The American scoffed. I have an MBA from Harvard and can help you, he said. You should spend more time fishing. With the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats and eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman, you could sell directly to the processor and eventually open up your own cannery.

2:03:08You could control the product, processing, and distribution, he said. Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, and then Los Angeles, and eventually to New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise. The Mexican fisherman asked, But how long will all this take? To which the American replied, Oh, 15 to 20 years or so. But what then? Asked the Mexican. The American laughed and said, That's the best part. When the time was right, you would announce an IPO. You could sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions.

2:03:37Millions? then what the american said then you could retire move to a small coastal fishing village where you could sleep late fish a little play with your kids take siestas with your wife and swole to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play guitar with your amigos life is often simpler than we make yeah dude i mean that's great that's exactly what i'm saying like that's that's so true like i think that it's tough like a lot of people sometimes they their identity becomes their job i'm very uh self-aware about that that i don't want that especially I think that would make me unlikable if my job and some sort of followers and doing live shows and already sometimes people are probably like a person probably sucks they think they're the man or whatever I separate these things because they're completely different I just want to enjoy my life I'm already it's already good enough that doesn't slow me down because I have passions and things that I want to accomplish but I will never sacrifice the things that actually matter in my life.

2:04:40Like, I'm not going to miss a birthday. I was going to say, what matters?

2:04:45What matters is making sure that I'm being a good person, dude. Honestly, I just want people, when I pass away, to be like, that was a good dude. And that's pretty much the extent of it. I just want that. and ideally that would come from everybody. I want to be as helpful as I can. I do want to make an impact in some sort of way, but I really just want to be a good dude and I just want to earn things because I think that makes me feel good to know that I'm putting work in and trying to earn something and I'm getting things back from it. That feels like a really cool exchange, but I really just want to be a good dude.

2:05:32And, and I think there's also this, uh, this notion online where it's like, if you're, if you're 20 years old and you're not fucking drop shipping and you're not fucking like into crypto and fucking wearing blue tinted glasses that like, you're a fucking loser. Like, I don't think it's your life. Isn't the Lambo dude. This isn't the end all be all is like the Lambo, like that. Everyone's like, I'm going to get some money, then I'll buy a Lambo. It's like, you don't need to do that. Like, I do think, like, I don't want to say that, like, you know, some people who are very successful would just be like, oh, well, money isn't, won't make you happy.

2:06:10I think that's insane to say that. Like, of course, it will make you happy. Having financial security is a massive weight off your shoulders. So that already is like, that trumps everything that like the argument of like, it won't make you happy. I get what people are saying when they say that. It's not like you could buy your way to happiness. It's like, well, I bought a plane. I got cars and whatever. It's like, yeah, but you're still fucked up emotionally because you haven't really spent time doing that. And you haven't really seen your family. And you worked all this, you worked this long for what?

2:06:39For things? For like, you know, the number in your bank account to be higher? You're like missing the point, in my opinion. like me i i like i said i'm a very social dude i like making new friends i like learning new things i like traveling and getting out in the world and putting myself in uncomfortable situations that's the only way that i feel like i am growing and i'm obsessed with that i'm obsessed with growth and just learning about what what the world has to offer like and everyone has something to offer, you know, like I, and I want, I wish I could know it all. I wish I could to, to, to meet everybody and have a conversation with them.

2:07:20And, you know, I'm the type of person that randomly, like I'll be in a deep conversation with just like a fucking stranger. Like, cause I enjoy that. I like hearing, I always tell, I always tell Greg, like one of my dream jobs is to be a bartender in like a slow pub, you know? So I could just like, you can get to know your regulars and like that just seems like a very like nice thing to to and and not aesthetically like i really think that it's a nice thing to be able to sit down and talk to someone and it like feel that sense of community like that's the best dude like that's the best i saw a video recently on tiktok where this guy was like interviewing people and he found this old woman and she was talking about pubs and how they're like the greatest thing in the world.

2:08:11And she's like, you just go to your local pub. And she's like, I feel like people don't do this anymore. Like you go to your local pub and you talk to the people in there about like your problems at your job or your relationship. And you talk to the bartender and sometimes they give advice and it's bad advice or good advice, but that sense of community, it's like a place you can go. Like I'm obsessed with stuff like that. Like I love that. And I also love how there's different versions of that. You can never know everything. Everything changes. Everyone's different. And everyone's right. I believe like everyone's right.

2:08:42If they believe they're right, then they are. Like, I think that I'm right for me, but not for you, if that makes sense. And I think that's sort of fascinating to me. So I, I want to get out there and I want to experience all that. And I want to feel uncomfortable because that again, that I get so much from that. It feels very rewarding. And I did make the mistake when, cause I wasn't always like that. I grew up in a neighborhood, Astoria, Queens, where everything that you want is there, basically, at least it was for me. And I had a lot of friends in the neighborhood and whatever. And I would barely even go into Manhattan to hang out or go to a bar.

2:09:27It's just like, I'm just going to stay here, whatever. But something in me shifted and I was like, I want to see more things. And once that started happening and I started traveling, I was like, like the first time that I, I took a flight from Paris to Mykonos and I was just looking out the window and it was like, oh my God, like the world is like massive, as stupid as this sounds, by the way, this was like seven years ago. Um, but I was like, the world is massive and there's so much out there that like, you can see pictures of, but it's like the pictures aren't going to do it justice to it. like get out there and see it.

2:10:04Like the world is so cool. And there's so many cool people. Like the idea, like a fantasy of just going to some random small town in Ireland and walking into a pub and making a friend is like the greatest thing in the world to me. And like, just, and like, now you're so lucky because you live in a time where like, you could keep in touch with that guy if you wanted to. You know what I mean? Like, that's such a cool thing to me. It's like, now you got a friend in fucking Ireland across the water. Like, it's like, I don't know. Things like that are fascinating. I actually think that is the point.

2:10:39Like, that's the point. And the job is just so I can be able to do that. And I'm fortunate enough that right now I could do stuff like that. So I'm good. I just have to fulfill my personal, like, need to want to create and also make an impact. Like, if I am given the privilege of being more successful than I am right now, I will give back more. That is something that I want to do and something that's always been in me of giving back to people, making donations to charities and things like that. I want to feel like I'm doing the right thing because I don't need all of it. I don't need all the money and I don't need that sort of thing.

2:11:21I get a lot of joy out of helping people and I get a lot of joy out of other people being happy. I love that. I love being in a group of people and everyone's just super happy. But I did make the mistake at a time where I thought that everyone should want the things that I want, which is wrong. Not everyone needs to be like entrepreneurial and like chasing something, like follow your passion and do whatever, like find a thing, like your job isn't your passion, find something else and whatever. Not everyone is wired that way, which is the beauty of it too. That was like, then you become this person who's like, I want to save everyone.

2:11:56And I want to, and and that's wrong i think and i've gotten to a point now where you you know like we were saying earlier there are some people that are content the fishermen right i've i was the fucking dude at harvard harvard was never in the cards for a guy like me but i was that guy where i was like here's what we could do you know whatever and they're just like bro i don't want to do that you want to do that and it's like oh yeah you know like you can't force that on people either so to make it easier a very simplified version is like make yourself happy don't do it in spite of anything and you don't need everyone to do the thing that you're doing run your game that's it run your race and everyone else is running their race but make sure that everyone around you is happy because if like that's the the really the only thing dude if you're content with one fish a day what the fuck am i gonna say if i'm not content with one fish a day that sucks for me I got to go out and fish more, but you're cool, bro.

2:12:55I'm kind of jealous of you then, you know, like, and just cause I haven't wanted, it doesn't mean anything at a certain point. If what I want out of life is to truly just, you know, be able to travel and, uh, see people and learn things and talk to people and have these types of conversations and I'm doing it. I got on a plane to get here, to have this conversation with you. I'm doing it. What am I going to be upset about. This is the thing that I wanted for so long and I'm doing it now. So like I'm playing with house money. So just realizing that also, and not just getting on the hamster wheel for the sake of getting on it.

2:13:35It's like, nothing's ever good enough or whatever. Dude, it's not like free yourself up. If you're looser, I think that things it's easier to kind of get your job done. Also, if you're like real strict, like I got it, whatever we were talking about before, it's like, I need to be creative right now because I need to make more money and then I can do this and then then I'll be it's like bro just just just find what you're doing and just like try to you know whatever I'm fucking talking in circles now this fucking new tonic is killing me no man you're uh you're infectious you're really infectious I'm being serious I'm being serious I can see why you're successful I can see why people follow you I can see why however many tens of thousands of people sold out Madison Square Garden to come and see you as well.

2:14:20That level of self-belief that doesn't feel tyrannical, doesn't feel like it's overbearing or domineering or selfish. I have a good idea of what I like, and I like what I like, and I want to try and create a life that helps me to enjoy as much of that as possible is about as infectious of a philosophy as you can get. And I can totally see why you've been successful. Thank you, dude. And I appreciate you saying that because sometimes, and I realize the way that I'm talking about it now, it almost sounds like I'm a freight train. And it's like, I have this thing in my head and I have to do it my way and everyone get out of my way.

2:15:00It's not like that. Like I'm much softer than that. That goes on in here. But mostly I'm scared. like mostly I'm scared and I'm like second guessing myself, but I like am putting one foot in front of the other because I feel like I have to, because there's a voice in my head that, I mean, obviously I've, I've, I'm like anxious about things and I'm, and I'm scared of certain things or whatever, but there's a voice in my head that's so intense and it's so loud that like, yo, fucking do it. Like, don't be a coward, like do it. And like, it's so loud that I can't sort of ignore it, but that only exists in here.

2:15:33I'm not like a freight train. Like I'm not like this, like when we're on set or something or when we're just talking about ideas, like, no, no, no, we're going to do this. It's not like that. It's more of like an internal belief thing. I had a conversation with a guy called David Dada. He wrote this super famous book in the 90s called The Way of the Superior Man. And he's a coach, philosopher, spiritual guide for men and guys, especially that have lost their purpose a little bit and don't really know where they're going in life. and I did the first interview that he's done in a decade, a couple of weeks ago.

2:16:10And when I was doing the research to look at him, I went back to the start of his career and this guy has had the most fucking eclectic career that you have ever heard of. He did quantum mechanics, then he did pure mathematics, then he worked on AI in the 80s, then he ran a yoga ashram retreat for forever, then he did this coaching thing then he did a family thing then he became an author then he went back and did more ai stuff and he founded company just bounced all over the place and i asked him while we were talking dude i i can't really what are you i can't i can't piece together i can't weave the path of your life yeah in a straight line and he said when i don't want to do something or when I'm called to change what I'm doing, being out of alignment with that voice is so painful to me, physically painful to me.

2:17:10It feels like someone's wrenching my insides. I don't have any choice. So what from the outside looks like self-belief and bravery and single-mindedness from the inside is actually fear of pain. And the pain is me being out of alignment and you sound like him you sound like that guy the the voice in my head is so loud that i i can't not do it i can't not do the thing because they're saying don't be a coward go and do it go and chase your dreams yeah and it's like yo if i if i feel like i have like one part of me feels like i have the potential and i think that a lot of people see potential in themselves for certain things like yo i could do that or i can do this or whatever but they get discouraged along the way i i never get discouraged because i have that where it's like, just keep going.

2:18:00Are you going to stop? You can't stop. You believe it. If you believe it, then those things meet. But you believe it. If I believe it, I have to keep going then because I believe it. I have to see it through.

2:18:21It's really tough for me to... There are some things, because there was a point in my life where I was very experimental too. Like I'll try a bunch of different things and just to sort of see. Like creatively, I think that is helpful. Like I don't really see a lot of merit in picking something. And it's like, well, I have to do that now. Like that's the thing that I, like I think there is merit in realizing along that journey where your strengths are. And it's okay to pivot. It's okay to pivot and do, you know, things that now make more sense that are resonating even harder. because there's no way you have it figured out on day one.

2:18:58Like no matter what, you could plan all you want and you can do whatever, but it's never going to go the way that you think. So, I mean, that's another thing too that me and Greg have had multiple discussions about where creatively people can get into a creative rut where they feel like I have to keep planning to perfect this. and I don't think that's helpful like for anything. Like I think that you can only learn by doing. Like trial by fire, like just put yourself out there. Like you can plan a little bit. Give me an example. It's starting a podcast even. If you're starting a podcast and you're like, I want to start a podcast.

2:19:46You have a loose idea. You have something that you want to do. Cool, whatever. Like dude, start, but you're going to spend three months being like, so here's the strategy or I'm going to have conversations with all these people and I'm really going to dial it in or whatever. You think you're not going to pivot? You think you got it right right now? You haven't even started. Like you don't have it right. You need to start now though because you're only going to learn those things. Did you not begin working on the live show a year before you even went out there thinking of the song that you were going to walk out to?

2:20:14That to me is like a different thing. So like what the shows were, no. Like those moments are like, I'm scoring something like a part of a movie of my life kind of like that's what that kind of feels like of like okay that's the moment that I want to make happen this is the thing that's motivating me right now like kind of how do we get there also the action of like okay that's what we want we want Radio City it wasn't until after the first show that I looked at my agent I was like I want Radio City and he's like alright I'll kind of work on it and we'll see if we can get it or whatever this is after the first show who the fuck am I by the way that was crazy I was on a high I came off stage I was like that was sick so I was like yo Radio City book the fucking Yankee Stadium I don't care but so yeah it's like I want to do that I'm not ready for it but it's like book it over there I'll get to it and we'll figure it out I'm focused on okay I need to be better tomorrow or I need to be better at the next show or whatever we're going to get there eventually but I'm not like planning and just being like so i'll give you an example so when we're starting the the tour right it's it's a decision of like should we should we go on tour and then it's like yes we should action the next day so an action would be like we're talking to the agent we're like okay what's the process for this thing and going along the way it's like all right whatever like of course then you have to get to planning what the show is going to be i mean there's no way you're going to walk out there and be like, well, I have no plan.

2:21:50Hello. Like there is that sort of planning, but that's not necessarily what I'm talking about. I'm talking about stalling the process so that you can like perfect something that you can't perfect. It would be not booking the show until you'd written the show. Exactly. And even then it's like, what do you think? It's not going to change, dude. I mean, we had the conversation yesterday where your fucking show changed every five minutes or whatever the fuck. You were like, yeah, I changed up 40 % of every show. Bailed out in between each show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but it's true. It's like the only way that you can really learn.

2:22:19Like, think about how long. If you like, we're like, okay, we're going to do that, but we're going to, you know, really plan, really hone it in and blah, blah, blah. Like, you're just going to have to jump. It's a lot of that. Do you have a tattoo? Yeah, it says smile on the inside of my wrist. Okay. I get the same sort of feeling when I got tattoos. It's like, well, I want the tattoo. And now I'm sitting in the shop and I'm like, fuck, like, this thing is permanent or whatever. and I had the same feeling every time I got a tattoo where I'm like this and then it's like the guy's like are you ready and a part of me just goes like fuck it like maybe you'll hate it like but whatever fuck it it's like that approach is like what you need is you're never gonna be like super ready you're never gonna have it fully dialed in like but you need to just do it and just suck at it because no matter what it's gonna suck it's if you're lucky it's gonna suck if you're lucky.

2:23:14If you can't look back on something you did years ago and you're like, that was great, then you probably suck now because there's no one getting it right on the first try. You should suck because that means that you grew and you got better at something, but you have to start. You're never going to plan your way out of not sucking. You're going to look back embarrassed a little bit. You're going to look back and be like, that wasn't great. And also things change. You're going to have to adapt anyway. Just start. Just start, dude. like just suck at it just suck at it but you're doing it you're doing it make it your identity just do it like just do it if you want to be a rapper dude then be a rapper be it you can be it you know like just do it then no you don't have to sell out a a fucking venue to be a rapper bro rap just do it like then you're a rapper like make it your identity when people think of your name they're gonna associate yourself with that they're gonna associate your name with like yeah that kid's rapper.

2:24:09That's what you want. Then you're it. Being successful at it, that's a different problem. That's a different problem for a different day. You're going to have to be good at it. You're going to have to care about it and all that fucking bullshit. But if you want to be something, dude, make the decision and do it. You can. What you're worried about and the thing that stalls you is like, are other people going to think that I'm good at this? Or how am I going to look? Am I going to look cringy? Am I going to whatever? Get to the point where you're okay with that. Like, just believe in who you are, know who you are, and be like, I don't care if people think I'm cringey.

2:24:44Like, of course, people in your comments probably are like, this kid's cringey, bro. Fuck this kid. Like, but whatever, bro, I don't care. It's not why I'm doing it. Like, everything I'm saying feels so real to me. Like, this is not, like, a fake thing that I have. so I'm okay with people interpreting it in a different way and thinking that it's for show or whatever like it doesn't matter bro because I don't one I don't know you and two like I have to live my life I'm gonna walk away from this thing like even if you're looking at me right now and you're like this kid's kind of an idiot and I don't agree with anything you're saying bro I don't care I don't care because it's real to me and I have to live my life it's my reality so like it's it's kind of it's kind of like that there has to be a balance though to be fair because everything i'm saying like you can get yourself in trouble where it's like i believe everything that i say and whatever that's close to delusion i i only it only um works and you're not a fucking brutal hang if you have checks and balances and you're very very willing to take on criticism and you're very willing to listen as well because you can't just always be the one talking you can't because you're not going to learn anything like if you're not giving someone the opportunity to talk or to teach you something, or you think they can't teach you anything, you're wrong.

2:26:04You're wrong because everybody can teach you something. Just shut up and listen sometimes. But then if you can master those two things, it's very empowering to know that, oh man, I'm willing to be wrong. But I also believe in myself and my decisions, but that definitely could get me to a dead end, but I have to be okay with that. And I am okay with that because I'm already grateful for what I have. I'm already at the point where this is good enough for me. I'm willing to hit the dead end. I was willing to hit the dead end fucking 10 years ago.

2:26:39The fact that I always feel like I have nothing to lose. I have nothing to lose. Day one, I felt like I had nothing to lose. I still feel like that now. I could take a risk, whatever. What's going to happen? Who cares? Or this is going to upset someone because you're not going to do this and that's going to upset someone. Or someone's like, yo, this is going to be a bad decision for your career. But if I don't feel like it's right for me, bro, I don't care. Take it then. Take my career. I don't care. Like, I have to stand on it like that. You know, like you have to, you have to do what's right for you.

2:27:14When I first got signed to William Morris, I had a meeting and it was, I was young and I was on a big, it was a big table. There was a lot of people there. I've done one of those. And it was like, this lady's like, I'm your book agent. I was like, don't read. Who's next? Like someone else, like, you know, but then they were like talking about stuff. And one of the things that I said in that meeting was I was also like, didn't really know much. So the idea that I had in my head about agents was like, they're going to try and like take over your career and make you do stuff that you don't want to do or whatever, like for whatever reason.

2:27:48And I told them like, you know, there's a chance that you present a thousand things. and I say no to all of them. Like I'm gonna do the thing that I want to do. And I wanted them to know that I wasn't intimidated by the moment. Even if I was intimidated by the moment, I was lying. But I wanted them to know that like, you can't push me around. I don't know how much I believe that. But I was like, I didn't want them to think that it's like, we got it from here, kid type of thing. I was like, no, get the fuck off me. Like, I'm still gonna do this thing. I will accept help, of course, and some sort of guidance, but it has to resonate with this thing that has gotten to me, like gotten me everywhere that I have gone.

2:28:29Like it has to resonate with that. Like I can't do something that doesn't hit there. I just refuse to do that. Whatever that means. If that means missing out on, which I've missed out on a ton of stuff, it's gotten me in trouble. I've definitely said no to things that I probably should have done, but whatever. It's fine. It's okay. I'm willing to lose. It's fine. But I, that's the route I'm choosing to go. That I'm okay with losing. I'm okay with missing out on stuff. I'll learn from it. And maybe it takes a few tries to even learn from it. It's not like one thing and then it's like, now I got it, I'm good.

2:29:06Like, no, it's like, it's a series of mistakes. But that's the point. I'm happy to make mistakes. Who the fuck is not making mistakes and is cool? who's like, you know, you got nothing going on. You got, you got, you're not making mistakes. You're not taking fucking huge L's. Like, what are we talking about then, dude? No risks, no nothing. What is your day like, dude? Like, what is it? You're just going to write on post-its and sneeze. That's it. Give me something, George. You know, like take risks. It's exciting. It's exciting to fail, dude. Like it makes you a person. It gives you something at least, but like, i don't know just just fucking i don't know dude i get very passionate about this dude forget about it you put a fucking glass of red wine in front of me we'd be there for 10 hours be a wrap i get it man uh what would you say to someone who struggles with their self-belief or self-assuredness every time that they try to tap into their gut instinct they struggle they can't really hear it or they're scared, what would you say?

2:30:23I think that's normal. I think it's normal to tap in, listen to it. It doesn't work out and you're scared and you're scared because it hasn't worked out in the past. Part of it. Keep listening. Just keep listening and keep doing. If that's what's interesting to you, if you think it would fulfill you to be at a place eventually where your sort of end-all be-all is your intuition. That's something that you want. All you got to do is listen and keep doing it and just keep making the mistakes. I didn't get it right. Bro, I get this shit wrong all the time. I don't even know if what I'm saying right now is coherent.

2:31:03I'm just talking. You know what I'm saying? It's probably not. Don't laugh. So now I know it's not. but you just lay it all out on the table it's okay to be vulnerable be cringe, be whatever but you get somewhere with that at least it's real if you're being vulnerable, people know that and it's real, you're taking a swing by doing that I can come on this show and just say a bunch of things that I think you want to hear I don't even know what you want to hear but I could just do that but like I don't get anything for that like I'm trying right now I'm trying right now this is but this is all like very real to me everything that I'm saying it's like this is very real to me if it resonates with people who watch your show that is like an incredible feeling for me and if it doesn't it's like ah this is one of those things you know I took a shot you know like but it's real to me.

2:32:02I don't need them to think that, you know, I don't need it to resonate because it resonates with me and it works for me and it may not work for everyone, which is totally fine. How does it feel to be having a conversation that's way more serious than the ones that you usually do when you go on podcasts to get to talk about this stuff? I enjoy it. I mean, I, this is why like, you know, I wanted to come on this show. I'll tell you, by the way, before I met you, I was invited by Spotify to go out to LA and they were like, oh come to this thing and i was like okay cool like they wanted me to be on some fucking panel and i was like all right cool and then and then i saw that you were on it like two weeks prior to that my brother sent a link of your john bellion interview in my family's group chat you've been friends with him for forever for with john yeah yeah very loose friends but yeah um but uh but they they sent that link in there and like my whole family is like john bellion fans and And my brother was like, you should go on this guy's show.

2:33:03Like, this would be like a cool thing for you to be on. And then two weeks later, I get the email that you're going to be on the panel. So immediately I'm like, I'm going to fucking talk to this dude. Like, then this is when it starts, right? It starts where it's like, okay, I'm going to be on the panel with this guy. And I want to be on his show. What does it take to kind of get there? And I don't know. I don't know you. and like at that point like i don't know you i've never talked to you whatever so you could i could have just been like i was kind of a fucking asshole like whatever i don't want to be on the show anyway i don't care but like we meet and we immediately like have this report i'm like this is great and and then the next day i saw you at the other fucking thing and then now i'm sitting here that feeling is incredibly validating and it's enough for me to believe in the the intuition and the energy and that feeling of like just follow your gut and do those things.

2:33:58Say yes to shit. Put yourself in a situation where you could get lucky in a way and get this opportunity because I can see that as... Some people could look at this as like, you got lucky. But I'm open to that. I'm putting myself in situations where I could potentially get lucky. I see luck as not a magical thing, but just opportunity that you took advantage of that looks like luck because the chances of you being on that panel are i don't i don't even know the fucking chances but it was there and i could either do nothing because there was other people on there they're not sitting here today like i'm sitting here today and it was because i was like sort of intentional about that i wanted that i wasn't going to be like hey buddy can I be on your fucking show?

2:34:50But like, how do you get to this point that you like, you want to connect with someone you think that this would be a good fit. And then it ends up being so and now I'm sitting here like that is incredibly validating. And again, that's enough for me to be like, this is how you get things done. Just just, just be open to the idea, dude, like just be prepared for your opportunities. And then it looks like luck. But if I went there and we never spoke, or I was too shy to speak to you, I felt like, oh, he doesn't want to like, fuck with me. Like he has fucking Luke Holmes and like these very famous people on his show.

2:35:21He's not going to interview me, bro. Me of all people. Like if I did that to myself and got in my own way, then I'm not sitting here and we're not having this conversation. Get out of your way, dude. Like just, just believe, the only thing that you need is like belief that it could happen. That was enough for me to be like, I'm going to talk to him. He's just a little fucking guy, you know, like I'm just, you know, like, but if you get in your own way like that, you're closing yourself off. You don't have the opportunity for people to be like, oh, you got lucky or like, you know, whatever the fuck, like you're closing yourself off to opportunities.

2:35:53If you're putting, if you're getting in your own way, like just get out, like even getting out of your own way will result in a lot. Opportunities pop up. You'd be surprised of how they do that. Just say yes, dude. Just say yes to shit. It's exciting. Once you, once it happens to you, it's very exciting and it doesn't happen all the time, but it will happen. Like I say yes to shit. I mean, you can say, yeah. I mean, I said yes to shit for years and nothing ever happened with that. And then once things start happening, then it kind of feels like you met this person and then you met that person or whatever.

2:36:26And like, you know, the networking aspect of that, bro, just be a good dude. I believe that, or at least the people that I want to be around, if you're a good guy, they want to, they like you, they want to root for you. And it's like, I just want to, I just want to be that. I want to meet people. They think I'm a good guy. And it's like, well, I'm going to remember that. I like that kid. You know, I like the thing that he believes or the things that he says or whatever the fuck, you know, and I respect the thing that he does. I, I want to be around people that I respect that I like, that I think are good people.

2:36:55I won't, I won't surround myself with people that I think are like fucked that are like weird and like do like bad shit. Like I'm not covering for you, dude. Like, you know, like, I'm not like, I want you to be a good person because that's what I'm on. That's what I'm, that's what I'm about. Like, I don't, I don't want to be around people that I feel like are negative or like trying to hurt people or like whatever. Like I'm not about that at all. Like I'm just trying to be a good dude and I want that mutual respect from people and that's it. Just simplify it, probably get out of your way. I'm talking to myself by the way, because I did that for years, did it for years, like getting in my own way, overthinking, nope, not good enough.

2:37:37the example that I just gave you I've done that numerous times of being like why would they talk to me bro and who knows what could have happened with that I refuse to do that now I refuse to do that what do you do when that fear comes up just like don't be a bitch like stop what's the reason what's the actual reason what are you afraid of if it doesn't work out you're in the same spot you are now Like, how is it actually scary? When you think about it in that way, like, what is scary about that? You either open a door and there's an opportunity or there's nothing. Shut the door, you're good. That's it.

2:38:17That's all it is. Like, you're opening doors. You open a door, there's an opportunity. Oh, wow, that's great. That's what I wanted. There's nothing there, you close the door. What the fuck happened? Nothing. It's just, it's neutral. The fear is like, it actually can put you at this like insane disadvantage in your life if you get in your own way. Because like, the opportunities, you're closing yourself off to them. You need opportunities. You need help from people and you need to be like collaborative. And, but you also need to be confident and assertive in certain ways and kind of like put your foot in the door, you know?

2:38:53And like, sometimes people will slowly shut a door. I'm on doors today, like crazy, by the way, but someone would slowly shut a door and you got to stick your foot in and like, let it hit your foot and just kind of like, you got it. Sometimes you got to do that. You can't just like stand there and let someone slowly shut the door in your face. Like be assertive, like know who you are. That is the most important thing. Know who you are, be confident in who you are and really believe, really believe yourself, but be humble about it. Like believe, start a fire in yourself and be like, I'm very capable, but also like you have to be a humble person.

2:39:27You have to be likable and you're not the most important person in the world. Be a good guy too, but be assertive. Put yourself out there. It's actually a lot of fun. And when you get used to failing a lot, that is funny. That even helps me even more than probably shit working out, honestly. Things that work out now, that probably plays against me. Now the more success, the more unrelatable you become. I'd rather fail at this point. It gives me something to talk about. So... Either way, it's a positive. You fail, you got a funny story. If it works out, you got the thing you wanted. You're the man, dude.

2:40:05Honestly, you're one of a kind. Really one of a kind. I'm very, very glad that you decided to stalk me. Jeez, how can you say that? Like, it's crazy. I'm glad that you decided to stalk me to LA. I really am. First of all, I was invited for... I don't even know if that's true, but... It's...

2:40:25It's very...

2:40:29gravitational being around you yeah like very electric being around you and i can see why you've got this rabid support it's like unbelievable energy it's like very very compelling so i'm just fired up now that we're friends and i get to watch you go and do the fucking stuff you've got cool things coming up over the next couple of years and that's it's a sad like fucking bellions doing uh red rocks right later this year and there's a difference between seeing someone's stuff online which i hadn't i hadn't seen your stuff had you seen my stuff before bellion yeah dude you're fucking everywhere what are you talking about sorry about that well don't forget you seen my top three podcasts but don't forget the fucking headlights right yeah you know the venn diagram and you don't watch that much youtube and you don't spend that much time on podcast hey well i don't i spend time but i don't like go back to the same thing is what right okay okay i'm scrolling uh the fact that i got to know john and then i get to see him do a thing and i get to like root for my boy yeah one of the greatest gifts is to become friends with someone that you're a fan of yeah or to become a fan of someone that you're friends with.

2:41:46And then you get, it's 10 times better to go and watch someone or to see one of your friends. So George, big nose sneezes a lot, is writing a book at the moment. And that thing, I'm watching this sucker unfold one sentence per day, right? Like slowly being crafted and I'm hearing him talk about it and I'm giving him a, oh, I don't really like that. And then that thing's going to come out and when i read it it's going to be the best book that i've ever read because i'm going to love the person that did it and when bellion gets to do red rocks i'm going to be like that's kind of my fucking boy yeah like that's my boy doing that and that's fucking like it shows amazing and rah rah rah and then the same thing for you i'm really really fucking glad that you reached out and i think that you're awesome and it's it's sick to have you thank you dude i really do appreciate like this conversation like i don't get to do it often like on camera or whatever but I do ramble quite often with my friends well you rambled when you get fucking yapping it's it goes in a good direction and that's it man we need to do this again where should people go to check out everything you do you can go follow me at Joe Santagato good luck spelling it Josh Pepino where did P come from now it is what it is and the basement yard is the podcast.

2:43:13So go check that out everywhere. Sick. All right. See you next time, everyone. Dude. Poor fucking man. That was so sick. Well done. I get asked all the time for book suggestions. People want to get into reading fiction or nonfiction or real life stories. And that's why I made a list of 100 of the most interesting and impactful books that I've ever read. These are the most life-changing reads that I've ever found, and there's descriptions about why I like them and links to go and buy them, and it's completely free, and you can get it right now by going to chriswillx.com slash books. That's chriswillx.com slash books.