The Hotdog Effect: Secrets of the World’s #1 Restaurants - Will Guidara - #1076

28:44there's investments of energy that are depleting and i think there are investments of energy that are energizing and at least for me bestowing graciousness upon others always falls into the latter camp why do you think so many companies forget the human element then

29:08Well, I think far too many companies follow that old adage, what gets measured gets managed. What I'm talking about, it's harder to put a ROI to it. But just because it's harder to calculate the impact of the stuff doesn't mean it doesn't matter. In fact, in many ways, I believe it matters more. Every company I spend time with is, you talk to the CEO or the president, whoever, they're all trying to identify what is their competitive advantage. And yet those conversations always center around the strength of the brand or the quality of the product. But here's the thing, it doesn't just matter how good the product is or how strong the brand is because eventually, and this is not my opinion, it's a fact.

29:55Time has proven it to be true. Someone's going to build a better product. Someone will create a stronger brand. The only competitive advantage that exists over the long term, I think that comes from hospitality, from consistently and generously investing in relationships. Because we all know this, they take a long time to build. And if you build them in the right way, the loyalty you earn takes a very long time to erode. I think the reason why a lot of companies don't think this way is because, understandably, they're so focused on today dollars that they're not focused enough on tomorrow dollars they're maximizing profits now at the expense of all those that lie ahead it's really difficult to growth hack intimacy yeah it's really hard there's no way to speed run it all right your chief growth officer is probably not looking at the intimacy metric yes but they ought to be like I really do believe there should be another line in the P &L um you know in most companies if you exceed revenue you're celebrated if you go below expenses you are celebrated but I think reinvesting in the community you are there to serve should be a line item in the P &L and if you underspend on that line item you should be penalized because you're you're reaping future benefits today and you're selling your future colleagues down the river.

31:21Didn't you do some mad stuff with how closely you looked at your set of accounts as well? Yeah, I call it the rule of 95.5, which is manage every single dollar like an absolute maniac 95 % of the time. And I mean like a maniac, no expense too small to be poured over. but you do that so that you earn the right to spend the last five percent foolishly and i put foolishly in air quotes normally because i don't think it's foolish spending at all it's all this stuff that i'm talking about i believe that spending actually carries the day because it's where you leave people with a lasting impression and a sense of loyalty and connection to to you and the brand that you are trying to create what were the things that you were focused on what were some of the places that you decided to scrutinize more closely i mean everything literally everything if anything was five percent over from the month before we would do a deep dive into it i think you need to do that because listen everything i'm talking about when i say you need to earn the right to do it, I mean that in two ways.

32:35One, you need to be cognizant enough with how you're managing your money that you have actual money to invest in this. Obviously, you need to legitimately earn the money to spend. But two, I think you better earn it. Because anyone not spending that last 5 % foolishly, I really do believe in the long term is being financially reckless.

33:00But where we went from there, which is cool, is those stories I told you about the wedding day or the sleds, they're amazing. And yet you can't scale them. You need to hear someone say something. You need to come up with a good enough idea. You need to turn it around on the fly. You can't do that for as many people as you are invariably doing business with. But when you're doing something that's not scalable and it's really working, you need to ask yourself, can I put some level of system behind this? So we did an exercise that I think is transformational. I call it pattern recognition of recurring moments, where we looked not for the touch points, the things that happen always for everyone, but the things that happen sometimes for some people, as often as once a day, once every week.

33:49And by the way, every business has these, the good ones and the hard ones. And if you can name them in advance, decide what is the coolest way to respond every time that happens, invest whatever's required to develop the assets needed for those reactions. You can start making magic all the time. What like? I'll give you one from my restaurant and I'll give you a couple from out in the world because I think they're so powerful. In my restaurant, a lot of people got engaged with us. Probably happened once, twice a week. And when that happened, we would pour them free champagne, like most good restaurants would.

34:25But once we had identified that as an opportunity, we said, how do we make this more awesome? Tiffany and co had their offices across the park. One day I went over there and started knocking on doors until I met the chief marketing officer, eventually convincing her to give me 1 ,000 of those iconic Tiffany blue boxes, each with two champagne flutes in them. Next time someone got engaged, we poured them free champagne like we always would have, but they wouldn't notice that their glasses looked just a little bit different from everyone else's glasses. And when they were done, we'd take them away, wash them, dry them, put them back in the box.

34:56And at the end of their meal, we'd gift them the glasses they toasted their engagement to. Was that less special because we had a bunch more in the back? No. Was it unbelievably easy for our team to deploy? Yeah, all they had to do was go into the back and grab a box. And I've talked to people who got engaged with us then who don't remember a single thing they ate but they will never forget how we made them feel when we gave them those glasses here's here's an example from out in the world of a similar thing um four months ago i got on a flight we pulled away from the jet bridge and that dreaded announcement comes over the speaker ladies and gentlemen there's something wrong with the plane we're going to be delayed here while they figure it out we'll come back you with more information when we have it.

35:43And those delays are the worst. A, you can't even go get a coffee anymore. B, there's always some dude three rows behind you that lets out that groan of exasperation and the morale on the plane starts spiraling. But this time, something different happened. The pilot came out of the cockpit. There were three families on the plane, parents and their kids. Pilot goes up to the first family, says to the kids, hey, you guys want to tour the cockpit. The kids are so excited, which made the people sitting around them a little bit excited, right? It started to uplift the vibe. Does the same for the second family, does the same for the third family.

36:19Now there's no more families. We're still delayed. The pilot just goes into the aisle and says loudly to the cabin, do any adults want to tour the cockpit? Adults started taking them up on it. Eventually we take off. I'm a student of this stuff. So I asked the flight to dinner. I said, hey, what was that? She goes, he's the best. Every time we're delayed on the tarmac, that's what he does. There's a pain point. You can't control it. This guy recognized that this was something he could do every time that happened to make it at minimum less painful, and at least in the circumstance that I experienced, quite enjoyable.

36:56this stuff exists i would i guarantee if you look at your business there's these recurring moments if you pick a good one and a bad one figure out what would be the coolest way to respond you can actually systemize graciousness in other news you've probably heard me talk about element before and that's because i am frankly dependent on it uh and it's how i've started my day every single morning. This is the best tasting hydration drink on the market. You might think, why do I need to be more hydrated? Because proper hydration is not just about drinking enough water. It's having sufficient electrolytes to allow your body to use those fluids.

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38:03Buy it, use it all, and if you don't like it for any reason, they give you your money back and you don't even have to return the box. That's how confident they are that you'll love it. Plus, they offer free shipping in the US. Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below, heading to drinklmnt.com slash modern wisdom. That's drinklmnt.com slash modern wisdom. Yeah, because it's too hard to build it on the fly, to have the specific server have that idea, enough time to be able to reverse engineer what their first dance was.

38:38And upstairs is actually, there's room, we can do that. I mean, I'm saying you should still do that stuff. Like to be innovative in hospitality, do unscalable things all the time, but you can't just do those things. You need to have a foundation. You can do innovative things that are scalable as well. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking about stuff. I'm about to open up my first studio here in Austin, and we've got a bunch of guests coming in, and we'll start recording in it pretty soon. I'm thinking about the sort of guest experience, about when they get met and about what it's like when they leave.

39:12And we have some pretty cool merch. And, well, maybe I could give them some merch. Maybe we could take a Polaroid. And maybe the Polaroid, there could be two copies of it. And they could have one. And we could have one for the wall. And then wouldn't that be cool? So, yeah, I mean, we used to do – I ran nightclubs for a very long time. So, technically, I was in the hospitality industry, except for the fact that nightclubs are the least hospitable of all of the hospitality industry opportunities. Except that's one where you derive significant and genuine pleasure out of telling people they can't come in.

39:41Yeah, fuck off. Fuck off, everyone. And one of the things that we did, which was using the peak end rule from Daniel Kahneman, which you're probably familiar with from your time in restaurants. We realized that we were really great at peaks, but the ends of nights out are almost always the worst part. Especially you're in the Northeast of the UK, you've just spent all of this time in a club, maybe you met a guy or a girl and now you've lost them and whatever, I've had a bit much to drink. Fuck, I've got work tomorrow. And then you get hit by this sort of wall of freezing cold wind and rain as you step outside and you're reminded that maybe you need a kebab, but maybe I'm not sure.

40:20Where can I get the taxi from? And I'm going to start chanting stuff. We were in the middle of a city and there was residences everywhere and we got noise abatement orders all the time because the UK is so parochial in the way that it's put together that even the noise of your customers leaving the venue is apparently your responsibility. Anyway, one of the things that we realized was that if we gave out lollipops, just little 10p lollipops in a big bucket with a nice smiley girl on the door, as people were leaving, it did a ton of things. It stopped them from going to the kebab shop because they thought they'd got a little bit of something.

40:59It actually sobered them up a little bit because they finally got some glucose in the system that wasn't in the Red Bull. It caused them to shut up. because they had something in their mouth. Yes. And it stopped people from fighting because no two guys wanted to have a fight while they were sucking on a lollipop. No, by the way, that is an unbelievable example of the first thing I was talking about. Like, what is every touch point? Your touch point is leaving. Leaving sucks. How do we make it suck less? By giving them something to suck, yeah. Second is. Yeah, it was funny. It was funny. I mean, I tried, as I was starting to learn, you know, I was getting Rory Sutherland pilled and Richard Shorten pilled and understanding consumer behavior.

41:39I tried to implement as much of this as I could. Um, I guess margins it's in fine dining, it must be at least somewhat easier because the margins may be a little bit nicer, I guess. But, um, I mean, we tried, we did actually not like people in our industry would say that fine dining has the worst margins. I've just learned a long time ago that, listen you spend money somewhere a lot of places have big marketing budgets i think this is the best marketing you can do right you give people stories like this to tell what do you think they're going to do they're going to tell them over and over and over again um and if you spend money on smart marketing it's going to return itself to you over and over and over again.

42:26Are there any tricks, any hospitality tricks that you've seen at other fine dining places or even well-known restaurants that you experienced and you thought, fuck, I really wish that I'd thought of that one? I mean, coming up, there were all sorts of little things that, I think in the beginning, like anyone, when you're building a business and you're trying to get to a certain level, the best thing you can do is be a really good curator. Just go around and study other people. And if they do something really well, take it and do the same thing. And if they do something kind of poorly, try to do it a little bit better, but that only gets you to a certain point, right?

43:07Then eventually you're doing really well, but you need to start to develop your own point of view. And I was inspired by Thomas Keller's restaurants and Daniel Balud's restaurant, all the, the, the big people here. And I'd borrow little bits and pieces from each one of them. And that got us honestly onto that list, just last place on the list. And it was from that point that we had to start developing our own stuff. But I will say this, even today, as I travel, I'm learning so much from different people. this is something I learned from a guy who read my book and was inspired by it and tried to figure out a way to put it to work in his world but his world is very different from the one I came from he owns two UPS stores in Sarasota Florida which are not the places anyone would immediately think of as being the most hospitable in the world but he wanted to figure out how to put this into practice and so he came up with an idea and he shared it with me because he said it transformed his entire culture.

44:09He made a rule that everyone that worked for him, that worked the register, they were required to once a day, one time during their shift, comp someone's order up to whatever, 30 bucks. That one change transformed the culture of his stores. And it was a win, win, win. It was a win for the person on the receiving end. Imagine if you went to a UPS store to like send something to your mom and they're like, sir, it's on us today. You'd be like, what the fuck is going on? Like it would blow your mind. And you would talk about that. Like, you'd be like, dude, the weirdest thing happened. That was the UPS story.

44:46It was a win for the people that worked there. Because listen, I don't care what you do. I don't believe you can do it well if you don't feel some level of genuine appreciation for doing it. And there are places that even the most generous among us aren't necessarily good at showing appreciation for the people that work there. And yet, the people that work there, when they did comp someone, they're like, oh my gosh, they really appreciated that. This feels great. It's the freest gift ever, right? It's somebody else's picking up the check for you gaining the goodwill. Exactly. But that's what led to the third one.

45:26Because when he implemented the rule, they were required to do that. But after they started feeling that level of appreciation, now they were allowed to do it, but only one time a day, which meant they had to now work to more deeply understand everyone that walked through the doors of that store to decide who deserved it the most. Was it someone having a good day that needed a cherry on top? Was it someone having a bad day that needed something to go right? every customer was receiving better service and hospitality in pursuit of figuring out who was going to get that one gift i was thinking about i have this uh smarter energy drink uh called newtonic and one of the things that we did for the investors we raised our first round and you know you never forget your first yeah so we got um metal cards made and these metal cards have got a near field communication chip in them.

46:24And what all of the investors were told to do is to keep the card in their wallet. And then if they were ever at a party and the topic of nootropics or brain health or cognitive function or energy drinks, it's like, oh yeah, you know, I haven't been able to focus so much or my mood's been a little bit down or I've been thinking about trying to improve my dopamine or I want to get off using so much caffeine. I'm really, whatever, however it sort of slotted in they had this gold card that had their their name on an investor and all that they needed to do was take the card and if they just tap it on someone's phone it opens up a website on their phone where they just put their address in and we ship them a case we ship them one case of everything for free so it's like a business card but it's a functional business card all they do tap it on the phone boom just put your address in there and then two days later they'll get one of everything.

47:14And by the way, it's a brilliant gift because you're giving your investors the gift of giving other people gifts. And invariably, they're now doing more consistent marketing on your behalf. Of course. These people are in room. These are the people who are investing in us. They're in the big rooms. So yeah, it was, that was fun. I have no idea where mine is. One of the, we did need to put the kibosh on one of the lads that works for me because he had given away more money than he did, more money in stock than he'd invested. i was about to i didn't want to like i didn't want to like crush the vibe of that story but i was about to say did anyone take too much advantage of it yeah we had to we had to have an we had to have an intervention with one of the one of the lads that works for me i was like look mate this is good but the check size wasn't that big and don't don't tip your uber driver with a bunch of around on a night out like how many girls did you speak to at soho house in la fucking hell crazy that's funny crazy um you mentioned before about the difference between uh taking work seriously and taking yourself seriously and um i've been kind of fascinated by this question myself i i i like to take things seriously but also you know that play and fun are where a lot of the enjoyment in life comes from so what does that look like how do you avoid seriousness in pursuit, how do you stop that from bleeding over into seriousness of persona?

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49:18And there's a 30-day money back guarantee. So you can buy it, train with it for 29 days. And if you do not like it, they will give you your money back. Right now, you can get up to$50 off the RP Hypertrophy app by going to the link in the description below or heading to rpstrength.com slash modern wisdom and using the code modern wisdom at checkout. That's rpstrength.com slash modern wisdom and modern wisdom at checkout. Well, I think it can be kind of addressed in two different ways. First, just in how you show up and do business. I think you need to take what you do seriously. But if you try to be so serious in how you do business, I actually think you're letting these self-imposed standards get in the way of you giving other people the things that will bring them the most joy.

50:06I think so many people, they're so focused on perfecting their own brands that they're not nearly focused enough on just pursuing people. and they're selling themselves and those around them short as a result like joy and humor breaks down barriers the more connected someone is to you the more successful you will be in that relationship and like a bit of levity goes a long way and those that i think some people that take themselves so seriously that's rooted in some level of insecurity they they feel the need to always have their guard up. But if your guard's up, how are you ever going to expect someone else to let theirs down first?

50:50Now, as it pertains to just living a life worth living, what are we doing? Nothing that any of us is doing is that important. We want to make an impact on the world. We want to put good out there. But gosh, we should have some fun along the way. And if we think that we're doing such important stuff that we can't have fun. I think we just end up, A, not having a life that is nearly as enjoyable as it could be, and B, not being that enjoyable to be around. Oh, yeah. And ultimately, even though it's very difficult to measure, one of the big mediators between a customer's experience and what's going on is the vibe of the staff what's the vibe like so yeah if it's this very stringent dictatorial sort of uptight procedural thing it's not i mean i work at a ups store where each of us gets one credit to give a customer a free package each day yeah like that that is so different to i work at a ups store whose package sending error rate is below 0.001 yeah by the way and i bet the two more often than not coincide right like i think you can feel joy in a room and every single business i've ever engaged with if the people that work there are having fun the experience will be better they will do a better job and it's pretty hard to have fun if the person you work for doesn't allow themselves to what's the line uh ambitious in vision but patient in pursuit mean that was for my dad my dad always wanted me and with that paperweight as as a starting point to be like crazy audacious in what i tried to achieve with what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail.

52:52He'd always say, hey, ask yourself of that question. Whatever the honest answer is, just try. Try to do that. Saying that far too many people are scared to say their biggest goals out loud for fear that if they do and don't achieve them, they'll let themselves and those around them down. But, and you know this, if you don't have the confidence and the conviction to dream the crazy dreams out loud, it's pretty unlikely they'll ever come true. But that's only half of it. I think when you want to be the best, you need to understand that getting there takes time. And it's something that I find myself coaching younger people on all the time.

53:32Like, if you want to be the best at anything, it's going to take time to get there, enjoy the ride, celebrate each season, like allow the years to pass such that you can fully build the foundation you need to do something extraordinary. And so audacity combined with patience, I think is the winning formula. Either one of those on their own, I think can be disastrous. I'm interested in, it sounds very fun.

54:07The culture that you brought to this, the sort of almost childish rebelliousness against what I imagine, I haven't done much fine dining, but I have to imagine that when you get to the upper echelons of multiple Michelin stars, it can get pretty stuffy. And the opportunity to kind of turn that on its head with a bunch of play toys seems fun. But I have to assume that chasing number one must have put a kind of pressure on you that wasn't just a blue sky helicopter thinking vision. there is a degree of tension in that pursuit. There can sometimes be a hollowness in the victory of it. So what did you learn about the joy of chasing number one?

54:56What did becoming number one actually cost you? Well, I think there's a couple of things you just said. One, we had a lot of fun for sure. And it was also extraordinarily difficult. it wasn't all hospital i mean you don't get there without pursuing excellence with the same rigor that you pursue hospitality instead of the fact that they are not friends right like excellence and hospitality they they work together but they're opposed to one another excellence is about control hospitality is about empowerment excellence is about holding people accountable hospitality is about celebrating their initiatives and affirming them right I'm talking not just literally with the product, but also culturally.

55:44And there was plenty of tension. I think anytime you work alongside like-minded people who are as passionate as you are and wanting to be the best, there will be tension. And that's something to celebrate and embrace. because if you can, if you can figure out how to navigate through those moments of tension thoughtfully, you grow closer to those around you and together can figure out what is the right next best step for the business as a whole. So there was a lot of pain. There was a lot of exhaustion. There was a lot of tension alongside all the fun stuff I'm talking about. And yeah, the culmination of it all was wildly all over the board.

56:32I mean, in the moment where you realize you've achieved this thing that you've spent a decade of your life working intensely hard to achieve, there are few feelings that could ever match that level of elation. In the moments that follow, yeah, there's an emptiness for a moment. because when you've been so fixated on one thing and then you've achieved it, then what? But I think that was alleviated to a certain point because of this idea of unreasonable hospitality. Have you read The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek? Yes. So I do love the central message in that book, which is if the entire game you're playing is in pursuit of an accolade or whatever, you're going to get to the point where you've achieved that.

57:31And then what is your reason for doing that thing anymore? Now, the only thing I would add to what he wrote in the infinite game is I believe we should also have finite games we're playing. For me, the infinite game became unreasonable hospitality. I wanted to, alongside an amazing group of people, redefine what hospitality could look like. How far could we take it? How seriously and intentionally could we pursue human connection? That's the infinite game because there's no winning. There's no finishing that. It's a journey that never stops. It's a game I'm still playing today. But I think cultures need to win a game every once in a while too, because when a team of people's working so hard, they need to feel that sense of victory from time to time.

58:21It's such a good point. I think the best version of the world where we're just driven by the love of doing the pursuit, it is not respecting the biology. It doesn't respect the way that human biology and psychology works. The reason we have dopamine is so if there's something really, really far off in the distance and as you run toward it you look at it and you see it and it's slowly slowly slowly grows bigger and bigger and bigger at each different time that that gets bigger you look up from your run you go fuck it's still so far away it's a little bit closer than it was last time you're encouraged to keep going yeah and um i don't know i i've got this rule that uh model the rise not the result which is when you're most people that have achieved a level of success that others go to them in order to ask them about how they achieved success are at a stage where they can't remember the issues that the people they're talking to are dealing with.

59:20And, you know, it's all well and good talking about your work-life balance and the importance of a strong meditation habit is actually where the competitive advantage lies. And you go, okay, just, just humor me for a second. What did you do 30 years ago when you were at my stage? Oh, oh, um, a lot of Adderall actually I do a lot of Adderall I worked I worked 16 hours a day for 10 years straight and that's right don't fucking tell me what you do now dude tell me what you did when you were at my stage and um that that insight I think the rule of it's all about the pursuit don't worry about the accolades are often proclaimed by people that have just achieved them.

1:00:04And I've got this line. In fact, let me read you something. I wrote just a little, I was talking to a friend of mine, a coach, Joe Hudson, yesterday. I'm talking about this new show. So I'm going on tour and I love my live show. And this new one that I'm trying to do is significantly more difficult than the last one. I think it's significantly more difficult. The lesson I'm trying to get people to take away. So I wrote this thing yesterday, which is this needle that I'm trying to thread. Here's the danger. And this is what I keep circling back to. If I tell a room full of people who are still climbing that greatness won't cure their pain, I risk sounding like I'm asking them to take their foot off their gas, even as they're still on the ascent.

1:00:44It can feel like I'm deflating the very thing that's keeping them moving. For someone who hasn't yet won, achievement still feels like oxygen. So if I stand there and talk about the hollowness of success, it can land like a luxury belief. It can feel premature, Like I'm handing out a lesson designed for people at the top to people who are still trying to get out of zero. And that's the tightrope. The message can't be don't strive. It can't be slow down. It can't be none of this matters. Because most of the audience are on their upward trajectory and they need fuel. They need direction. They need momentum.

1:01:17And if I attack ambition, I alienate them. If I glamorize misery, then I trap them. And if I preach renunciation, I lose credibility. So the point that I'm trying to play with this new show is subtler than that. I'm not telling a starving man that food doesn't matter. I'm telling him that food isn't love. Achievement expands your life. It gives you resources, leverage, opportunity. It is important. I'm not trying to renounce that. But it doesn't repair your sense of worth. Greatness doesn't cure pain. It just makes the pain more expensive. So I want them to climb. I want them to encourage the ascent.

1:01:56And I want them to separate the fuel from the wound. I just don't want self-rejection to be the engine. I don't want I am not enough to be the thing that's doing the pushing. So I'm not warning anyone off ambition. I'm warning them off confusing ambition with self-acceptance. And that distinction is everything. Dude, I love that. Thanks. That's quite beautiful. Thank you. And it dovetails exactly to what we're talking about right now. Yeah, that line, greatness doesn't cure pain. it just makes the pain more expensive. I chuckled when you said that. I mean, but that's what I'm saying. Like, listen, I am a competitive person.

1:02:37I like to surround myself with competitive people. I like to set crazy expectations for what we can do. And gosh, there better be moments where we feel the pleasure of a win, where we can stop working for a moment and just celebrate all of the effort we invested into doing something extraordinary. And yet, if we are not also at the exact same time pursuing an idea that is unwinnable, then those victories will always ring hollow. If you're playing a finite game and an infinite game, two of those things always concurrently, you get the pleasure of pursuing things that actually matter and all of the little celebrations that you can have along the way.

1:03:25Heck yeah. Will Godara, ladies and gentlemen. Will, you're awesome. I really appreciate you. Where should people go to keep up to date with whatever it is that your new life is doing now? You can go to unreasonablehospitality.com and sign up for my newsletter. That's the thing I love. I believe in creating practices. When I wrote the book, I created a practice of writing and I keep but going through a newsletter that we release every two weeks. And then I have a new book coming out, Unreasonable Hospitality, The Field Guide. If unreasonable hospitality was the why, this is the how. And it really coaches individuals and businesses step-by-step on how to bring it to life.

1:04:00And that is out at the end of April. And so buy it where you buy books, and it would mean a lot. Unreal. Well, Rory Sutherland put me on to you, and he has got fantastic taste. not least in food for a man of his corpulent stature. He's a legend. Will, you're great, man. I'm really glad you're in the world. Thank you for having me.

1:04:43chriswillx.com books.