What They Don’t Tell You About FIRE with Andy Hill!

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23:29invest only in low cost? I mean, I don't know. I got no problem with that. Actually, you know, hold on. What? You just want to disagree with our funds. Stay red. Stay red. They both say follow it. Why do you say so? You know what, though? Hold on. I'm going to... He wants to hold up the diaper one. He does. He knows that it really does depend by... I'm going to put on my professional advisor hat here. Please do. I love, I love, love, love, love, love low cost index funds. We do. We use those for the vast majority of the portfolios. we manage. But there are seasons and there are times and there are situations where an index fund might not be the best solution.

24:06When I think about how we allocate our client portfolios across anywhere from 7 to 11 different asset classes, some of those asset classes are really, really easy to go get index exposure. S &P 500, love it, index it. Even international, love it, index it. Small cap, index it. But there are some nuances where perhaps the index is not the best solution. I can think about over the last decade, we were in this really unique interest rate environment where interest rates were at all-time lows, and it seemed likely that they were going to increase. And if you don't know this, bonds and fixed income was one of the toughest asset class categories to navigate.

24:43And we arrived at the conclusion, you know what? Rather than just simply buying the bond index, there might be some active managers who could actually add value to that portion of the portfolio, because it's the same thing about the alternative sleeve. So always and only using index funds, I don't think I would sign up for because practically, that's not what we do professionally. I do think there are justifications for using an active fund or a strategic fund in very specific purposeful situations. And once your portfolio reaches a large enough size, I think that's justified. But for early on folks, building up to that critical mass, up to that initial threshold, I love the idea of using index funds.

25:24I like it. And it makes a lot of sense. And I love how you caveated that. I would just say for, if I'm going to be the Epson side, I'm just going to say for the majority of people, I think they get locked down when it comes to investing. And then they just say, you know what, this is all too confusing. Seven asset classes. Do I need to be in crypto? Do I need to do this? I'm going to do nothing. So I really just want to get people started and realizing that this can be super easy and it can be as simple as clicking a button. Now, when you do start to get a little bit more advanced, you start to build up your wealth, meeting with a financial advisor to support you on your journey after you're feeling, okay, I've done this DIY thing for a little while.

26:02I need some support is an extremely smart decision, especially ones you can trust. So absolutely. I love that. That's great. Not so bad, right? You agree. That was a good conversation. I loved it. I love that we get to do this. Well, one of the things is not only can we like put together this stuff and answer fire questions, but we love, one of the things we do every Tuesday at 10 a.m. right here is we like to sit here and answer our audience questions because we care about what you care about, and we want to load you up, and today is no different. We have a special guest, Andy Hill, here today that's going to walk us through some of the answers to these questions.

26:37So I imagine if you have questions about how to own your time, how to do fire, how to get on the same page with a spouse, I bet you're going to have some fantastic insight. I would love to share both my insights and my failures. I love it. So if you have a question right now, make sure you get it in the chat. We have the team out in the wings collecting your questions because we really do believe that there is a better way to do money with that. Rebe, creative director Rebe, felt weird not to say it. I'm gonna throw it to you. You're a creature of habit for sure. I'm such a creature of habit. I'm such a creature of habit.

27:08That's fantastic. All right, I do have a question queued up from Stan M. It says, hi, money guys. Guys, I'm 36, married with four young kids, messy middle. I have enough saved to live on a 2.5 % withdrawal rate, but I can't force myself to retire. How would you convince cautious clients it's safe to retire? You know, it's really interesting. And at some point, you had to make the decision, how am I going to step away from the corporate world? I imagine when you and your wife were both working, making good incomes, it sounds like, had some success. You reached a point like, hey, I can step away from this.

27:46How'd you have the clarity and the comfort to do that at a pretty young age? Absolutely. Well, it was a few things for me. So I had been testing out my side hustle for four years before that and finding that I loved it. Every moment that I could do it was a lot of fun. And I didn't want to ignore that. That was very fun. I was doing this in the 5 a.m. to 9 a.m. or the 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. kind of time frame. So I found something that I was interested in. Also, found something that could make money. I love passion hobbies and things like that, but you really need to make sure people are actually going to pay you money before you're going to say, hey, this is something I'm going to do.

28:28The third thing was we saved up$100 ,000 of FU money to essentially say, hey, this is 12 months of expenses to cover us, even if things go nasty. And then fourth, I had a supportive spouse that said, hey, man, you got this. Let's go for it. Let's not do those rental properties. We both looked at those things that that's not something we want to get into. Why don't you try this? You're super passionate about it. I believe in you. So between those four things, I felt confident enough to go for it. and I would say to the listener, if you do have the money saved up and you know that you can do it because you've been watching the show a bunch and you feel pretty comfortable about it, I would have some more internal discussions with yourself saying, do I like what I do?

29:12Are you not leaving your job because you like it? And that's okay. Like having a job you like is a blessing. Like not a lot of people have that. So if you enjoy what you do, that's great. Like maybe a step down there is like, can you do what you're doing three days a week? There you go. Just back down a little bit. Yeah, maybe four days a week this year, three days a week next year. So you can still do it and enjoy it. I think a lot of people don't realize it could be, it doesn't have to be a switch on or off switch. Another thing, Stan, I would tell you to do, obviously what was great is Andy kind of walked through some of like the psychological triggers.

29:47I think you can go through some mathematical triggers too. And this is what we do for our clients. Before we ever say, hey, you're clear, check the box, you can make it. We actually do a long-term cashflow analysis. You said, hey, I believe that we can live off a 2.5 % withdrawal rate. Well, in reality, in practice, when it comes to how people live, it's most often not 2.5 % chunks every single year. Because inevitably, there's that year that you have to replace the car, and there's that year that you have to do the wedding, and there's the year that you're going to do the travel. And so what I would do is I would map out what I really think.

30:19If I'm 36 right now, and I'm really thinking about stepping away, I'm really thinking about retirement, have I accurately depicted what my life is going to look like in a best case, not best case, in a best thought out scenario from 36 all the way out to age 95 with those contingencies? You said I got four kids. Have you accounted for four colleges, any number of weddings, any number of first homes, whatever those things are that you want to do? Have you put that into a plan? And then have you actually stress tested that plan? Have you said, what if we go through a below average market environment?

30:51What's my probability success of actually being able to make it through this. So I think you can combine both the qualitative measures that you said with the quantitative data. And then when you do it, try to change as few things as possible. We find for our clients all the time, they get really uncomfortable. They're like, man, okay, what am I going to do when my paycheck stops? I say, hey, we're going to start a paycheck for you. You tell us what day you want it to happen. You want it on the third of the month. Okay. And the third of the month, X dollars will hit your checking account and you budget and treat it the exact same way.

31:20And if you can do that, I think it does help you sort of ease into what it's like to actually be retired, actually be financially independent. I think that's fantastic. Yeah. Stan M., thank you for the question. I am going to designate today as Tumblr Day. So if you would like a MoneyGuy Tumblr, since we answered your question on the show, just email winner at moneyguy.com and we would love to send you one. All right. Next up, we've got a question from HTBO1529. This is a very messy middle question. So I think you guys will have something to say. It says, hi, two of my kids are potty training and I'm excited about saving on diapers.

31:58Any other tips for parents who are trying to save some money? My kids are three, two, and seven months. Wow. This is the most messy middle question. Yeah, I think, Ruby, you and I were talking about this. You said one of the ways that you really saved a lot of money is you went cloth diapers, right? And instead of having the throwaways, you were like, I'm just gonna ring those guys out. I did not say that for the record. Shout out to you if someone is saying that. It's an idea. I imagine one of the things you write about in your new book is talking about families that are in this exact same situation, right?

32:30Like money's tight. What are some things that you've seen or what are some like practices you've seen people put in place to figure out how to find a little more margin? Absolutely. Well, I always like when we're talking about saving a little bit more money when things feel tight. This can be a slippery slope too, and I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of cut, cut, cut, because when you're already feeling tight, the opportunity for mental distress as a young parent, oh my gosh, can be really difficult. That being said, there are some things that you can do as you look at your budget overall, and make sure that we're looking at those numbers, what's coming in and what's going out.

33:09Most people know how much is coming in. They always like to say their salary. They know their salary. They know that one. They don't know how much is going out. So looking at those numbers and really diving deep into those and making sure what's in your budget actually meets your values and things that you actually care about. Some ways to save money without really killing your joy. I love the experiment of just walking around your house, especially if you're a young parent, and seeing things that have value that you can sell online in a quick way and maybe make$500 in a weekend,$1 ,000 in a weekend.

33:41That can be thrown towards babysitter money. That could be thrown towards paying off debt, those quick things like that. Looking at if you followed the FU and you do have your emergency reserve, maybe looking at high deductible health plans, if that fits with your health situation, that can save you some money in the long run. These are little things that you could do. Maybe even negotiating a lot of the bills you have between the cell phone companies and the cable companies and just making sure that you're getting the best deal. These could put thousands of dollars back in your budget as opposed to maybe thinking about the cloth or disposable debate.

34:18I love it. It's not the only option. I love it. You mentioned ungrateful service providers. A lot of people don't realize you can call your cell phone company. You can shop your insurance. You can change those things and those can be meaningful savings. We used to talk about cutting the cord, but now all the streaming got so expensive that like, it's a new cord. I cut the cord and now I got 19 cords. So it's just an invisible cord. That's right. Maybe, maybe, uh, reassess the cords that you have going on a monthly basis. I just put two others, you know, with young families, buying in bulk is always a great solution.

34:49If you can shop at a Costco or a Sam's or whatever, it's a great way to save some money. And then don't feel the pressure because all of us as parents do this. We want to create memories for our kids. This is our kid's childhood. This is the things I'm going to remember. Don't assume that memories for your kids have to equate to a lot of dollars being spent. Find ways to bedazzle your basic life. Maybe you're not going to go on that super expensive, crazy Disney vacation. Maybe you're going to go to the local state park, and you're going to go do that. You would be amazed. These kids' ages, they were like seven, three three two and seven months oh so all the more they are going to be so entertained i know i have little ones too and don't don't buy toys just buy boxes right because oftentimes it does not take much that's what they play with just to have the best day um and so and i think about be careful and i i remember this when i was a new parent i don't feel like i struggle it as much now but when when i was a brand new parent there was a lot of pressure around oh well i'm doing this and we're doing this and our kids are doing this and our kids are in this.

35:56And it's like, you feel like, oh, well, my kid has to be doing violin and piano and playing 19 sports and also doing the extracurriculars. And maybe that's not what makes the most sense for your family. So figure out what you guys value. Allow your dollars to go in that direction. Don't allow them to go in a direction to impress people, to buy things or do things to impress people whose opinion doesn't matter anyway. I completely agree. I remember signing myself and my son up who was a year at the time because I wanted to do something, special bonding moment with him where we would do the swim class.

36:31Okay. And we did it for, I don't know, months. And he looked like he was making progress. And then after a little while, I'm like, okay, let's see what he can do on his own. Went straight down to the bottom of the pool. Of course, I picked him up. You're like, well. But it was just a good example. You're like, son, you wasted all that money, All those lessons. It's not always what you expect. Maybe we're trying to do these things a little too early and putting a weird pressure on ourselves and our kids that doesn't need to be there. Yeah. That's hilarious. No, there's a lot of truth to that. HTBO1529, if you would like a MoneyGuy Tumblr, just email winner at moneyguy.com.

37:08You know, it's funny. For those of you that are not aware, Nashville's having a bit of a, we're having a bit of a weather event right now. We are. Lots of ice. Not very much snow, but lots of ice and stuff. And, you know, my kids, we live in Nashville. We get about one good snow a year, and they'll go out there and, like, make, you know, snowmen or whatever. But that's not what this one has been. I'm so proud of them because, like, they just figured out, man, if everything's icy, I can still sledge. And I can still— It was 10 degrees, 8 degrees, 10 degrees yesterday here. My kids were outside for like an hour straight, just tearing it up with the neighbors, sledding down the sidewalk because it's just a sheet of ice.

37:55And that costs? It costs nothing. It costs nothing. And that's going to be a sweet, sweet memory they have. They're not going to remember all the craziness of this ice storm. They're going to remember doing that. So the more you can find ways to encourage your family and your kids to have those kinds of experiences, I think the better off you'll be all the way across the board. Great advice. Absolutely. That's great. Next question is from Foo Faithful. Love the username. We're 37 with 1.3 million saved, 64 % in Roth. Our projections show will exceed our retirement needs. Should we scale back contributions even if it means losing a match or is free money always worth taking?

38:38I know what Bo's going to say. I'm interested to see what Andy is going to say. Oh, well. Well, I think I do. I don't know. I'm happy to jump in if you'd like. Absolutely. Well, I would say instead of thinking about what you are taking away, the free match and all things like that, think about what you could add. So if you get excited about, okay, maybe if I drop down by 5 % in my savings rate, what could I replace that 5 % with? what feeling inside your body right now are you saying man wouldn't it be cool if like money can buy that money can help get that money can't solve all problems but uh it can solve a lot it sure can so if you said man i am feeling so stretched at home with i don't know clearing this ice and i gotta do it myself clearing this snow it's like wouldn't it be great if i could use some extra money at home to pay for things so I can get some extra support and breathe a little bit.

39:36Man, it would be nice if we went on more vacations, but I got this 35 % savings rate so we can't go on vacations. Go on the vacation, especially if your projections are allowing you to have a comfortable retirement. Don't give up a comfortable now for a potential comfortable future. So if you can scale it back slightly, I think a lot of times people have found such success with these programs that we're talking about. Wow, we've made this simple, we've DIY'd it, and we are wealthy because of it. So in order to scale back, it just feels like you're doing something wrong then, right? So it's like, well, I've done so well with this, how could I go the opposite way?

40:15Just think about what you're feeding yourself on the other side, though. More time for family, more time for things that you care about, more time for your health, more time for community. that's where real joy and happiness is. It's not in a gigantic numbering net worth statement. Money is nothing more than a tool that allows us to accomplish the things we want to accomplish. And here's what I know, Foo Faithful. If you're 37 years old, barring an inheritance, you've been saving like a banshee to get to 1.3 million. 64 % of that in Roth. So you've just been crushing it. What that tells me is your savings rate has likely not just been the employer match.

40:52Even if it's a five to get five or whatever, you've likely been saving more than that. So I love what Andy said. Hey, you can scale back without scaling all the way back. Because if there's free money to be had, I would encourage you to get that free money for our clients that retire, but they decide they don't want to stop working. We've seen this a number of times. Clients will, they'll make it to financial independence and then they'll start working a job. They'll be like, hey, I don't need to save anymore, but I'm eligible for the 401k. and the 401k has a free match. Should I take it? And we're like, yes.

41:29You're already financially. Go get the free money. Even if we need to distribute money from your taxable account and replace, and we're just kind of, you know, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Free money makes sense. So I don't think you're going to be in a situation where the free money or not getting the free money is going to change a whole lot for you. So you absolutely should take advantage of it while you can, but do the assessment. Just like Annie said, can I do something more? Can I allow my dollars to give me not just a better future, but also a better right now? But it's not all or nothing.

41:59It's not zero sum. There are varying levels. If you've been pedal to the metal your entire career, it's okay to ease off that gas a little bit, especially if you're at 37 with$1.3 million saved up. Absolutely. Absolutely. One of people, we get a, I don't want to say financial advisors get a bad rap, but oftentimes people think that the role an advisor serves is save, save, save, more, more, more, more, more, more. One of our favorite things in the world to do is to get to tell people, hey, why don't you back down your savings rate? Hey, why don't you go on that trip? Hey, why don't you replace that car?

42:31Hey, why don't you do that home renovation? Hey, why don't you actually use this money to improve the life that you have right now? Because what's the point of having an entire pot of money at the end of your life that you did nothing with? So there's a balancing act there. And Foo Faithful, you're at a great point to start figuring out what that means for your situation. I love that. That's great. Foo Faithful, if you would like a MoneyGuy Tumblr, just email winner at moneyguy.com. Next question is from KungFuPanda11. Look at that. Great name. Look at that. Wow. My wife and I are 26 with 200K a year and 320K invested all in retirement accounts at a 30 % savings rate.

43:17Are we in Coast Fire? Should our hyperaccumulation be in brokerage accounts? We spend 7K per month. So he gave you a lot of information. You're Coast Fire. Yeah. Is he Coast Fire and then Bo, step seven, hyperaccumulation. Where should he go with that? So we're 20s? Well, first of all, you, as someone who is in Coast Fire presently, is this a Coast Fire person? It is. What I am fearful of is that there is too much maximization of wealth and maybe not enough maximization of joy in your 20s. That being said, I don't know a lot about your situation. Kung Fu Panda 11, awesome name though. You sound cool.

44:00I mean, two awesome things in that. So I I guess I would, if it were me, and going back to my 26-year-old self, if I was in this situation, I would experiment with increasing things that bring you and your wife happiness today and decreasing your savings rate. Because, yes, you are Coast Fire. If the idea of Coast Fire resonates with you a little bit, you're like, oh, I see how the math could work. I see how that could help me get where I need to go in retirement. then experiment again with how you can pull back the savings rate a bit and enjoy more life now. If you're 26 and your savings rate is holding you back from doing things that you and your wife are interested in doing, that is something to start to listen to and experiment with.

44:50I use this analogy. Again, there was a Making a Millionaire episode that we did with Christine. Oh man, I might've got her name wrong. But there was a Making a Millionaire, Danielle. We did it with Danielle. And it was, she was in this situation. Like, hey, I've been doing this and I've saved up. My answer to you Kung Fu is, are you in coast fire? We don't know enough yet. And I'm going to argue it's possibly, potentially even too early in the journey to be able to assess that. Because you said that right now your burn rate is$7 ,000 a month. And it's great that you have a handle on that. I can tell you for me personally, my burn rate at 26 looked very different than my burn rate at 36, right?

45:33There's a lot of life there that happens. And in order to be coast fire, what you have to do is you have to reverse engineer. You have to figure out, okay, what's the pot of money I need at the end of this journey, right? And that pot of money is going to be based on what you're spending at that time in your life. Well, for a 26-year-old, if you're pre-home, pre-kids, pre-job change, pre-all these things, there's a good chance that a lot of those things are going to change. The analogy that I always use is just like I'm not a big runner. I do run, but I'm not a big runner. I like to pick things up, put things down.

46:08But if you're going to run a marathon, you're going to run a 5K or any distance, and you take off in the first 800 meters, first half mile, and you're like running a five-minute mile. You're like, holy cow, my marathon time is going to be incredible. I'm probably going to be incredible. Well, just because you started that way does not mean that that's what the rest of the journey is going to look like. You haven't gotten far enough in the race to make that assessment. Now, if you're almost at the end, right? If you're on your last half mile and you've been averaging a five-minute mile pace, well, then yeah, you can have some assurance you're going to be able to finish the race at that level.

46:43For you at 26, this is one of the reasons why we say, if you can save 25 % of your gross income, we have a great deliverable. If you go to moneyguide.com slash resources that says, how much can you save? Or how much should you save? If you can save 25 % of your gross income right now, you're gonna give yourself maximum options and maximum flexibility. Now there's a chance, you've already got 320 ,000 invested. So you should go again to moneykai.com slash resources, play with our wealth multiplier and see what that 320 can turn into by the time that you retire. But does that mean that you should just coast on that level?

47:17I don't think you have enough variables yet. So I would consider, just like you said, maybe you don't have to have a 30 % savings rate. Maybe it's 25, maybe it's 20, maybe it's even 15. You'll have to assess that. But I don't think you can say, oh, I'm just gonna take my foot off the gas. I don't think you're far enough along in the race. I don't think you've done enough of the heavy lifting yet to be able to coast. Now, if you're married, no kids, not gonna have kids, already got a home, and you know your expenses are locked in, I guess perhaps it's a different story. Just most 26-year-olds I know are not at that place.

47:51That's what I'm fearful a little bit of in the 20-something conversation where the savings rate thing becomes so important that other important goals get put in the back burner. That might be having a family. That might be taking care of your health. That might be pursuing more fulfilling things in life. So if, like you said, we find a balance of, yes, it's important to save and invest for the future, but not at the expense of living for today and enjoying life, that's the balance you got to find. That's why I like Coast Fire because it's a more tame version of, hey, maximize and grow and money at all costs.

48:31Those are a lot of good thoughts there. Kung Fu Panda 11. Yes. Thank you for submitting the question. Handle of the day. And for having a cool username. Email winner at moneyguy.com if you would like to cash in on your very own Money Guy Tumblr. Next question is from Abby Lim 4365. It says, any suggestions for how to handle kids' medical and dental insurance if we retire early and the kids will lose their insurance? Do we just have to pay for their insurance until they can get their own? I thought this was interesting because this is kind of one of those downsides of FIRE, right? Or like things you have to consider.

49:11Sure. It's not on the shiny brochure. So, I don't know. Andy, do you have any thoughts? Absolutely, yes. So, this was an exact situation that my wife and I went through in 2019 as we were saying, hey, let's both step back from corporate life. And with that, the big scary thing that a lot of folks see online is insurance. Well, what are you going to do with insurance? I went to healthcare.gov and looked up a policy. I got the exact same policy that my corporation was giving me, and we pay. On average, it's varied over the years, for sure, with a lot of things that are going on, but it's been between$600 and$1 ,200 over the past five years.

49:51And that's per month for a family of four. That's per month for a family of four. High deductible plan. That being said, that's not a small amount of money, but if you factor it in to your expenses and you realize that not all corporations are paying the whole bill anyway, they might subsidize it a bit, you're still having to pay some money. So it shouldn't be a stopping point for saying, hey, I should retire. How am I going to take care of my kids? You just have to realize it's an expense and it's become a business expense of mine. I have a solopreneur small business, so I am the only employee of my business.

50:26It just becomes an expense as a part of my business. So I'm able to take care of my family that way for the past six years. And I think I agree with all of that full fault. One of the things that's unclear to me is how old will your kids be when you early retire? Because it's different if you're talking about, hey, we're going to early retire and I've got a nine or ten-year-old versus, hey, I'm going to early retire, but I have a 22-year-old. You know what I mean? Because then there's a different conversation you have around where your kids are and what they're doing. And then you have to factor it into your plan.

50:58If I'm going to retire early, what do I believe healthcare costs are going to be for premiums? And then what do I think I'm actually going to spend for the actual healthcare? Because those are not the same thing. Just because you're paying for the insurance doesn't mean you don't have additional healthcare costs. So you want to factor that in. And then you want to get creative and do other things. Like, okay, well, do we want to carry dental insurance? Because I'll tell you, one of the things, I carry dental insurance, and it was the biggest crop. Like, it was awful, right? I found that for the dentist that we see, they have a plan where you can do a little membership deal, and it was much less expensive for us to be members of this dentist and pay directly out of pocket.

51:38Way cheaper than what the cleanings and all that kind of stuff was through insurance. So you want to talk to your providers and figure out, okay, does dental insurance make sense? Does vision insurance make sense? Or are those expenses I could appropriately account for in my budget in retirement and be able to do that? what I think people, people get so excited about the retire early part and so excited about the, oh, I want to own my time and be my own boss. They glaze over. There are things that happen and there are expenses that come. You want to make sure that you are more conservative than you think you ought to be.

52:11It's why I always say, even when it comes to like retiring early in the fire movement, we want you to do the 3D glasses. Okay. Here's the dream. Here's what's on the brochure. Here's what's down to earth. Here's what's most likely going to happen. But this is the doo-doo. This is the stuff that, uh-oh, I don't want this scenario. But if it happens, I know I'm still going to be okay. And if you actually do that, then you're likely going to set yourself up to have a successful financial independence era. Yeah, and you know as a business owner, the idea of own your own business and it'll be the best thing in the world.

52:42There are some realities to that that you need to dive into as well. That's exactly right. Got to figure out the insurance. You're the boss now, right? There you go. Exactly. Can I throw one other thing out there? You can. Another, just again, since we have you here, sort of like this is the fire expert. Barista fire is often a thing that people think about and say, okay, I'm going to retire. I'm going to leave. But you know what? I'm going to go get some sort of part-time work. I'm going to go work for some sort of organization where working part-time or working this level qualifies me for benefits.

53:11So if I need to provide, I may not have to have the high corporate, super stressful, crazy job, but I can have the job over here doing XYZ that provides benefits for my family. and that might be a really great way to bridge. So your FIRE, your financial independence might be in a few different segments and that's totally okay too. I like that one. I like that. I think what's happened with the FIRE movement is people tried it out and then they said, eh, that was good for me or it wasn't good for me and then they just invented their own versions over the past 10, 20 years and I love these multiple iterations because as you said at the beginning, personal finance is personal.

53:45Create your own situation because it's not going to be a repeat for everybody. That's right. Andy, have you heard of the FINE movement, financial independence, Next Endeavor, I believe it stands for? Next Endeavor. Yeah. That's what we do. I was going to say, that's Bo's favorite. I like to restructure Coast Fire in coast to financial independence and relax early as opposed to retire. Look at that. Retire is so loaded. You know that word is so loaded. We feel similar, yeah. What does that mean to you? If we can modify our verbiage in a good way that works for you, that you say, ah, yes. So I love your fine movement.

54:20Absolutely. We read it somewhere online. You know, there's all these different things that pop up. And I remember when we told Bo that, he was like, that, you know, I resonate with that. I understand that. Every one of our clients, every client that wants to retire is on fine. Yes. Financial independence. And then what? What do the rest of them all have to look like? Exactly. I mean, that's the whole point, too. I feel like that's what a lot of fire people are actually doing. That's right. Like you, honestly. And if you get to a point where you do retire and you haven't thought about what that next venture is, that can be a point of anxiety and depression for a lot of people out there.

54:53So experimenting with that beforehand and deciding who else you want to be because you're letting go of this identity of saying, I am a worker. And then you're going immediately to retired. So you're also still having that identity as a worker. You're either working or not working. That can be an identity crisis for a lot of people. So breaking up that identity, diversifying who you are as a person is a really smart move. There's so much press around that happening to traditional retirees. Oh, I got to figure out what my next step is. This is true for early retirees too, maybe even more so. Don't think that youth excuses you from having this existential crisis around, okay, how am I, how do I define, what am I going to spend my time doing?

55:34Oftentimes, we get so excited about the thing that we're leaving behind and don't put near enough attention to, okay, what are we actually moving towards? And you want to make sure that that moving towards thing is something that's going to be able to sustain you over the long term. That's something you're excited about. Absolutely, yeah. That's incredible. Let's do one more. Jakester 2003 has a hot question for you here, a spicy question. My wife and daughter really want to move to a nicer neighborhood to a house with a pool. Ooh, pool. I'm anxious because it would be above 25 % of his gross income, which is our housing rule, I believe.

56:09Plus our current mortgage is 2.75%. Help. I love the help part. Well, if Jakester's writing in and asking this question, what does Jakester think about this plan, right? Well, I mean, I guess they share a lot of the numbers, but I guess I keep going back to psychological things and the marriage. I would say it's equally important for you to share your feelings and how this makes you say help or the anxious feelings that you're getting with your wife and really having those deep conversations. Because I really do feel like there's a compromise here that could work for both parties. And it might take longer than just flipping the switch and saying go or no go.

56:58There are so many gray areas between staying in the house you've always been in and getting the house with the pool. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I think, Jake, here's how I would think through this. Obviously, going above 25 % on your housing costs is a risky endeavor. So I'd want to know where are you in your career trajectory? You're early on in the career, middle career. Do you think it's going to increase? And how far over 25. Are you going to be like 25.1 or are you going like 36 %? Because the scope of that matters. You did say something super interesting. Hey, my current mortgage is 2.75%.

57:34One of the things I might investigate is, do you have to move to a new house and reset a new mortgage? Or might there be means and mechanism to install a pool at your current house? And maybe you don't have the funds to pay for it right now, but maybe that's a goal that you could save for to be able to do that. And so that way you retain that low interest mortgage. You have this other intermediate term goal that it still fits into the housing thing, but it's a shorter term goal, not like a 30-year house solution. And that's exactly what my wife and I did. We were entertaining the idea of, okay, we want, there's some things about our home we want to change.

58:12So we started looking around at other homes around the area and it was just going to cost a fortune. It was going to cost a fortune in terms of what real estate's done, but also in terms of interest rate movements and that sort of thing. And so we arrived at the conclusion, maybe it makes more sense for us to just make this home that we're in right now our dream home. And let's do some improvements and let's do those things. And we talked about it and went through the finances of it and stuff. And that was a great solution for us. And rather than having to get rid of my super low two-something percent mortgage, we were able to keep that and also be able to have a pool and do that sort of thing.

58:46I think that's great. And I've been through this process too where I'm like, okay, we're doing well in our finances. Maybe we should get a bigger house, more space for the kids, more things. I could have my own gym. I could have my own office. I could have a pool. This gets really exciting. But then I started to say to myself, well, does that add more stress? And does that add more home ownership anxiety? Because you know the reality of owning a home. It's not just owning it. It's like sometimes the thing owns you, man. It's got a lot of stuff going on. So I started to investigate, well, what are ways that I can have those nice things, but maybe not go for this big house venture?

59:22So I decided to join a gym instead of making my own gym. I needed more space for an office. I decided to rent an office just down the street from my house. You know what? I wanted some space to play pickleball near where I live. Instead of making my own pickleball court or whatever, it's like join a pickleball place, man. Not only does this help you save money long-term, but it actually connects you with real human beings outside of your house and make community and friends. So you could find the things that you're maybe seeking to have internally at your house. It might be lonely to have a pool where nobody's at.

59:53Maybe a community pool or a club that you could go to where you're kids and you could make some friends. So thinking about it in the same fashion you mentioned earlier where it's like, hey, maybe I don't need to sign up for all the kids' activities and sports. Maybe we can just find fun, frugal ways to make it happen, just sledding on the ice. That's it, man. Could be a fun way to go. So you just got to look at it. You got to figure out a good compromise that works for both of you. Love that. Nicely done on a difficult question that I knew was a difficult question. But you guys had some fantastic thoughts.

1:00:23Andy, it has been a delight to have you. Before we sign off, I'd love to hear where people can get your book and where people can find you and any last thoughts you guys have on Coast Fire and Own Your Time. Absolutely. Well, I am so glad to be here and I made it through the ice storm and we figured it out. I do have a new book. It's called Own Your Time. I'm very happy to have this out there into the world. As of last week, I actually brought this nice copy just for Bo. Oh, let's go. He's a great guy. You're going to have to sign this before you leave. Absolutely. But the book is out there. It's on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and it's specifically for parents who are feeling that stress, both money and time, and they want a little bit of margin and freedom.

1:01:02And I'm excited to put it out there and really help people. It's gotten some great reviews online already and just happy to keep getting it out there. Outside of the book, if people want to know more about the content you're creating, stuff you're putting out there, where can people find you? Yeah, well, I think there's this beautiful collaborator feature that we're taking advantage of today on YouTube. We will. And I'm at Marriage, Kids & Money, both on YouTube and my podcast. So if you want to listen, you can find it there as well, marriagekidsandmoney.com. Awesome. Well, it's been an absolute blast.

1:01:26Thank you for being so willing to open up, share your story, as well as answer some questions for us. Absolutely. It's been a pleasure, man. Absolutely. Thank you. We love that we get to do this. We're going to keep doing it every single Tuesday. If you've not subscribed to the channel, make sure you do that. If you've not checked out all of Andy's stuff, do that. Go out and buy his book. We will be here with you next Tuesday at 10 a.m. For Andy, for Reby, for the rest of the Money Guy team, Money Guy team, out. The Money Guy Show is hosted by Brian Preston and Bo Hanson. Brian and Bo are partners with Abound Wealth Management.

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1:02:58Thank you.