"I Quit Gambling... Now What?" (Listener Intervention)

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2:37I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab.

2:50In the last quarter of 2023, DraftKings, the sports betting app, reported revenue of$1.2 billion, which is up 44 % from Q4 the year prior. And that is just one app. With the rise in legalization of sports betting platforms, gambling has never been easier, and compulsive gambling has never had a lower barrier to entry. Today, I talked to a money rehabber who, as he tells me, does not identify as a gambling addict, but he has had his fair share of highs and devastating lows over a decades-long career of gambling. Today, he shares how he's building a healthier relationship with money, and we make a plan together that helps him pave the way for a better financial future.

3:31Brandon, welcome to Money Rehab. Thank you very much for having me on today. I would love to chat about your money goals, but first, I want to hear about your money story. You've had a complicated, is that fair, relationship, sometimes difficult, it sounds like, with money sometimes, but have come out on the other side and are now better for it. Can we go back to where your money story begins? Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So it all happened. I've been involved in sports my entire life. Love watching them. Love playing them. And it all happened going to New York Mets games and New York Yankee games.

4:06And what I mean by that is you would go to the games and they would have a promo offer for a credit card. So I would go there, apply for a credit card, get a limit of$1 ,500 on two credit cards. And I believe I was 18 at the time because I was going into my freshman year in college. And I would just go. I would go to the Chili's, go to all my friends, and just charge, charge, charge everything as much as I could after dinner. That's where it all started. I come from a single mom who raised me. And with that said, we had to hustle our lives in terms of making money and saving money. And I should have known better.

4:45What I mean by that is there was no safety net. I didn't have anywhere to go. I should have hustled more and more responsible with my money choices. And again, at 18, you don't know these things. Back then, social media was not there 100 % at all. We were still using beepers at the time. Cell phones were just getting out. I had a blue one with sparkles. Yes, yes, you definitely do. Yeah, so that's how it all started. I've been gambling since I was 15 years old. That's my action. And what do I define that as my action? I drink socially. I don't do any drugs. I don't smoke cigarettes. I never had a cigarette in my life.

5:24It just doesn't do it for me. But gambling was the one thing of vice that I just wanted to do. I wanted action all the time. There was nothing more exciting for me than calling in a bet. Nicole, back in the day, you would call off a bookie on the phone. Hey, what's your name? Hey, my name is Pineapple for 10. I won$1 ,000 on this game. $1 ,000. Nicole, I was 18, 19 years old. What kind of gambling were you doing then? So only sports gambling? Sports gambling. But my favorite thing to do, one of my favorite things to do is gamble at the horse track. My first big win at the horse track was a trifecta.

6:01trifecta is you hit three horses win place and shell i hit 571 those are the exact numbers it paid a total of 1528 i'll never forget it and this guy got me going and also the same time 1528 like 1 500 that was the total amount paid 500 28 cents yeah so it's always been sports gambling not much in the casinos only roulette blackjack poker i'll get eaten alive craps i'll get eaten alive i know i'll lose my money but for some reason i think that i could win every sports but I don't know why. When I was 18 to my 30s, yes, I did. It was just action for me. I would win at times a lot. I would win. I would go on hot streaks.

6:40I would win 15, 20, 30 in a row. I would lose a lot of money as well. I got into trouble where I owed$3 ,000. I couldn't pay it. It's not an easy lifestyle, especially if you're dating someone. What are you doing? You're committed to that person. Yes, you're 22, but you're still in a relationship. You still made that choice to date that person. And what am I doing? I'm on my phone checking scores left and right. It's uncomfortable. Yeah. Listen, I have, I've dated people who are very, very into gambling and it definitely can take over. It never really clicked with me. Like I never really got it.

7:14It was not my vice or my action, as you call it, maybe because I came from like a scarcity mindset around money growing up. So it's really surprising to me that you say you had a similar upbringing with a scarcity mindset, never had enough money, single mom, then what was the drop for gambling? Why did you feel like you needed to gamble when you were 15? And then how did that evolve when you got older? Because there's never enough money at the house. I always wanted to make more money. So I had stuff. I wanted to buy stuff. I want to have nice clothes for some reason, for some reason that mattered to me.

7:47And it should have mattered. And again, you're 15, 16, you're in high school, You're watching so many people. And I've had good friends my whole life. I don't have any sisters and brothers. But I've had good friends, the same friends I've had since I was six years old in kindergarten. And they're still my friends today. Some of them are better off at times. Their parents were more successful. My mom was very sick in her life. She couldn't do things that my other friends' parents could do. And I said to myself, I have to make more money. I don't want to be poor. I want to succeed. I always have that drive to work harder than anybody else.

8:21My mentality is Kobe Bryant. My mentality is Tom Brady, my two favorite athletes that gave it all. I didn't have the mentality at all times like I should have had. I was careless, irresponsible. At the time, I didn't own up to it, but I knew it was going on. I just wanted to keep doing it because it was the fun in my life. That was my action in my life. Nothing fulfilled me more than doing that. With that said, what happened was as I got older, I made more money, really good money at times. However, there was a time where - But you were making that money through gambling. no for my work, my career.

8:53So I would never use my rent money towards it ever. That was the rule. My rent comes first, gambling second. I have to be fair to the person I'm renting from and it's just doing the right thing for somebody. I still had a good mindset. I never changed the person that I was. I had a good background. I was always grounded with my mom. My friends, again, always there for me at all times, but they couldn't see it. They don't have to gamble, but I was the only gambler of my friends that used to bet a lot of money. I'm not talking about small pins like$100 bets I'm talking about$500 what's the biggest bet you've ever placed?

9:30$3 ,287 $3 ,287 well I know that number is that's very specific and the reason why is that's how much money I had in my account and I put that much money on a tennis bet because I knew it was going to win and it won and it was a guarantee I knew it was going to win 100 % So I won that money. I think it was six grand. I think it was. And the guy goes through. He's like, what are you doing? How are you winning all this money? Are you cheating? I go, no, I'm not cheating. I'm like, are you kidding me? As quick as I can win is as much I'm going to lose. So what happened? Yeah, it's kind of hard to like count cards in a sports game.

10:07Like, how are you cheating? Unless you're like Tonya Harding or something, God forbid. But how did you end up funding all this gambling? Was it through your main hustle, your regular job? Rent was first, but then was everything else toward gambling? You had a great relationship, it sounds like, with your family and friends. Did you ever ask them for money? Did you take out more credit cards? Did you take out loans? How did you fuel this addiction? Okay, great questions. Never borrowed money from my friends for gambling, ever. What I did, though, was credit cards, personal loans, personal loans, personal loans times seven, I think it was total, or maybe eight.

10:50First one, I was at the bank, I did business with, so I knew I was going to get approved. Because why? My direct deposit is coming out of that account, so I knew I was going to be able to pay it back. That was, I think the first one I got was for$3 ,000. I think I was 24 at the time because it wasn't easy. I had to approve my income, so I had to show my pay stubs. So I got that. Then it just kept rolling,$3 ,000, 5 ,000. But then once I understood the system and how it worked and how the underwriter is the one that makes the final decision, how I can challenge the underwriter, I'm like, let's go.

11:23Game on. I'll do this. Trust me. Now I know the facts. I did my research. Now I have to do. And you're saying, what do you mean by that? I would ask for$10 ,000 purposely like a sales call. I want to go ask for more money and then let them talk me down. And that's what happened. The 10 ,000, I said, hey, you know what? I know, Brandon, we can't approve of 10 ,000. We're going to give you 7 ,500. Sure. How quick can I sign that paper? As quick as I sign that paper is when I sign on to a company and I sign my direct deposit for it. And that's how it was for my loan. Let me sign that. Get it in my account right away.

11:55So let's just say, example,$5 ,000. Boom. That$5 ,000,$2 ,000, I'll go home and bet right away. It was so sick at times. I would bet on what color car was coming up next if I wanted to. I would bet on anything. It did not matter. I just wanted action for some reason. And again, I guess you can say maybe it's out of boredom, but I have a good life. I have good friends. I have good family. I just wanted the action at all times. It was so much fun for me to come home. And when I mean by that, I'll give an example. Let's just say you're having a losing day on a Saturday. It's a big college football day.

12:32You would wait until Pacific time to the pack 12 games. Oh, I remember this. I dated somebody that was into this type of stuff. It wasn't only the West coast. It was like Hawaii after that. Yes. Yes. Cause all you're doing in the worst that you could do in sports gambling is chase your bets. I use the word addiction, Brandon, but I guess I should ask you, would you say that you were addicted to gambling? to this day I'm still going to say no and everyone else if you talk to my friends they probably say yes it definitely was to me it was it was my action it was an entertainment in my life there are things that my friends do that's entertaining to them to me this is what I wanted to do with my life I wanted to be a professional sports gambler my whole life that's what my career what I wanted to do and honestly of all the vices I shouldn't have done this I should have had better outlets I should have worked three jobs It sounds like you got in some financial trouble here.

13:29I mean, between all these credit cards and loans, were you getting into debt? And then what was going on with your credit score? so the highest i had was i think a 717 or 715 one of those and again i had to take out more loans i couldn't pay him sometimes because i would have three loans seven credit cards i think at one time and i'm talking about good credit cards and that was not even the pay for gambling that was the pay for other things like my everyday expenses they're saying well you have a 20 ,000 dollar limit Yeah, what are you doing with your money? I had no idea. I was careless. I don't even know what I was buying.

14:07I know I was buying a lot of clothes. I was buying a lot of DVDs back in the day. It was just out of control of my spending. But the worst thing was when your relationships are just casually dating, your partner knows what's going on at a point. But to be honest, my friends never knew. I'm not an actor. But for this, I was the best actor for the last 25 years of my life, to be honest with you. Did you ever go through a breakup because of gambling? No. Nobody ever dumped you because of it? No. I ended a relationship because my opinion, the relationship ran its course. I couldn't give the other person exactly what they wanted.

14:44It was unfair to them. I cut it off, good or bad. I had to do it. I had to make that decision. It wasn't right. There were some good people in my life, but it's not fair to them. They should have someone that'll be there for them 100 % of the time and give it all. And I cannot do that. That's not fair to them. So again, there are a lot of lonely nights still. because you had a whole other relationship, it sounds like, with gambling. Do you know how much money, all in all, you lost? Not an exact number, probably between 15 to 17 ,000. And again, going back to the credit scores, my credit kept diminishing.

15:14It went from a 717 or 715 to as low as a 460. Now, I don't have my own house. I never wanted a house. I don't want it. I always like renting. When you have bad credit, good luck getting approved for an application. good luck getting electricity at your house gas company good luck it's not easy so again my cell phone service i've had the same one since college if i change it they're gonna run a credit report insurance sometimes it goes up because of my credit it is not good at all it is not healthy but at the same time no one is gonna and i had a friend who helped me do this through this to be honest with you in 2020 i had a friend that we negotiated stuff with the credit card companies in 2020.

15:56We had a good payment plan, negotiated with Capital One, Chase, discover personal loans, and I was doing well in the beginning. But it was 2020, 2021, I started a new career. And the career was very challenging because I had a staff locations that I couldn't do and my phone was nonstop. It was just too much happening at once between the stress with my credit score, gambling becoming too mainstream now it's legalized in more states now it was just too much for me to process and you add COVID on top of it I it was just it was just a lot for me to get once and I could have went to my friends but I didn't because a lot of my friends have families I didn't want to interrupt them because their one friend is gambling but at the time that's what I thought they would have been there for me I just had too much going on mentally in my head where I just couldn't do it.

16:52I stopped paying them. I stopped paying them. I started getting certified mail. Certified mail. It was crazy. They were going to go to court with me and take me to court. I did not care. It would come in. As soon as I saw it, boom, rip it off. Garbage. See you later. I'm not going to think about it. And I can't do that because what are they going to do, Nicole? Start garnishing my wages. So what did I do? Nope. I quit the job. I'm not going to let them do it. I quit that job. And it was a bad decision on my end. a really bad decision. I lied to my friends. I said, Hey, due to staffing concerns, due to COVID, I used COVID this year, so they had to let go of people.

17:29I had a great boss who let me do my thing with my job, my career. And I just let him down. I quit. I'll never forget writing that email, typing it up. It's all because of the debt struggles, paying stuff, COVID, stress, not having an outlet source oh I remember that I mean by that Nicole my mom passed away in 2012 so all the ah thank you very much so I really haven't been the same mentally at all at the same time but I wouldn't say that was my addiction I'm not calling it addiction I wouldn't say that's what made me gamble I just you know I just missed her because she always told me that I'm gonna miss her a lot when she's gone and that's the truth I did I do but here we are now.

18:14Okay. I figured it all out. I have. I said, I had to change my ways in my life. I have to figure this out. No one's going to do it for me. No one's going to, all people, no one wants excuses. So it sounds like that was like a turning point moment for you. Did you feel like after your mom passed and you left your job and it was COVID, was that rock bottom?

18:40Yes. Hold onto your wallets. Money Rehab will be right back. And now for some more money rehab. After your mom passed and you left your job and it was COVID, was that rock bottom? Yes. Yes. Because I couldn't get a job right away. And I had to work labor jobs and work my butt off. I was doing it overnights. It's not easy. But you know what? After everything, I needed that. I needed that motivation and I've changed. And this change has happened within the last 12 weeks. I am different. Oh, this is recent. Yes, Nicole, definitely recent. I am back at a high level the way I used to be. It took me 12 years to get to my point that I am today.

19:26It feels good. And you cut gambling cold turkey?

19:33Not 100%. For now, yes, I still want it, but I don't need it in my life anymore. And the reason why I'm saying that is it's become too mainstream where all the states legalize and friends that I would never thought would gamble, gamble. They try to give me advice. I'm like, I don't want to hear it. You don't know what you're talking about. You really don't. It's just not me anymore. That chapter of my life is over. I work hard for my money. I'm saving it. I'm doing things with it. I'm enjoying my life. I like going out, having fun. Again, when you are gambling and losing, you don't want to be around anybody.

20:06You have to be introverted. it. I am an extroverted person. So it sounds like you haven't gambled for three months. Is that right? No, no. I haven't gambled in three years. Oh, okay. So this three month thing is a new mindset or what's the last 12 weeks? The last 12 weeks is getting back to what I used to be, getting back on track of my life, going through my credit report, calling Experian, TransUnion Equifax First of all, thank you so much for being so open and honest about your story, Brandon. It's really refreshing to hear how you have no filter around what happened and I think that's really helpful to a lot of people who might be struggling or know but somebody who's struggling so we really appreciate that and I would love to talk more about this next part of your journey and I'd love to help you with it I love to be part of it.

21:02I know you wanted to talk about setting up a plan for your money goals. I'd love to know what your money goals are before we can come up with a plan. Look, I can't tell you what they are. Only you can tell, hopefully me, what they are, but at least tell yourself. Do you know what your money goals are and how you are thinking about those right now? Well, one thing about you, and I was so thankful that you got back to me from one of your reels that you posted on Instagram, is you're very good in your sector. You're on point. And it terms of money goals, I guess what I would say to you is obviously there's no gambling anymore.

21:37So that money is not getting allocated for that. But I wanted to ask you is what would you say are the correct steps of saving money? Were you paying bills at the same time? Like how would you calculate that? And what kind of formula would you use? Not you personally, what would you use for someone like myself and everyone else listening. Yeah. So it's a great question. Do you know what you would be saving for? Like, is it a house? Is it a vacation? Is it retirement? Retirement, vacation, those two things specifically. And what's your source of income right now? Working several jobs right now.

22:17One of them, I learned a transportation business, something I did not know before. I'm a CFO of that company. It's a new company. So I look at the books every, I reconcile them every Monday. I've been doing this for over two years now. I'm also doing other jobs as well, just to make money. That's all I'm about is how do I make the most money possible? How do I see? Because a lot of my life is gone and was gone because of all the money I had to pay in debt and everything. Let's bring it back to what? Back to basics. Let's come up with a plan. And that's why I'm here with you today, because I know you, you know, you can give us advice on how to do it.

22:51Let's make a plan. Okay, so how much are you making now between the three jobs? I would say total about$3 ,300 a month. Okay. And how much debt do you still have? You said you paid down half, which is awesome. So I only have one credit card company coming after me. I have 10 of them. Only one of them. One. And that's only I pay$200 a month. And that's a total of$3 ,200 that I still owe. And that's it. Do you know what the interest rate on the debt is? There's no interest on it. the money that you owe there's zero interest on this zero oh so this is like you owe somebody money not like a credit card yes so what happens is it was charged off capital one use another company to outsource it so it's the lawyers i'm paying they're the ones coming after me they said if you don't pay this we're gonna garnish your wages and all i had to do nicole was just be honest be vulnerable that's all i said this is what's going on in my life this is what happened if you just tell people the truth if it's just realistic and you break it down and say this is what i can do and you own your own life because one thing i've learned life is one thing is not a dress rehearsal you're gonna do it over again and it's so much funny that you said that about the interest like wait no there is no interest on it that's so interesting and i'm so glad that you said that because i do know and i do talk about the idea that it is important to actually speak with creditors and not just ignore them.

24:16They're so scary. It's so scary when they're calling you and hounding you and all that stuff. But yes, absolutely. Tell them your story. Talk with them. Negotiate with them. All right. So you have three grand, a little bit more than three grand in debt. All right. I also have rent and I also have a car that I had to buy. And can you please, you're good at this. I think you're going to get the number. What do you think my interest freight. Now, again, it's not a new car. What's your credit score now? So if you look at Credit Karma, it's 480s. But if you look at Experience Self, where it breaks you down every single thing, it's in the fives throughout the three.

24:51So I go back to this, 28%. Damn. I was going to say 20, which is high. Damn. 28 % insurance, 150 a month. When I was four years ago, my insurance was 96 a month or 90 a month. That's only because I live in New Jersey where the insurance is out of control. All right. Hold on. Okay. So we take in$3 ,300 a month. My suggestion is to take 70 % of that toward essentials. So that's$2 ,310. How much is your rent? $1 ,150. And how much is your car payment? So after getting it reduced down to the original, car payment is$607 a month. Okay. And how much you have$200 a month for the lawyer debt thing? Yes.