The Financial and Emotional Cost of Choosing the Wrong Partner: Pattie Ehsaei’s Story of Survival and Power

27:10It was a stick shift. And that's what I really wanted was the color I wanted everything. He would reel me back in with that type of behavior. When did you leave? It was two weeks before the California bar. We were living in San Diego. And I will never forget this. I was so sick of him and his mother, his mother was living with us. And she was a cruel, cruel human being. She really was. She would say just the meanest things to me. And here I am trying to study for the bar and she was just on me. And one day I looked at myself in the mirror and I had no idea who I was. I had just become this thing, this piece of meat flesh that he wanted me to be.

27:58I had no idea who I was. And then his mother was on me. So that night I said to him, I said, can we find a place for your mother to live right down the street? And it's not like She was an old woman who couldn't, she was very active. She was very healthy. It's not like she needed to live with somebody, right? I said, just right down the street. I'm like, this is way too hard on me. I'm trying to study for the bar. This is way too much stress. Can we just find her a place to live? And he said to me, my mother isn't going anywhere, but you do whatever the F you want. And Nicole, I don't know what happened.

28:36I don't know what it was about that one statement that he made. But I remember just a switch flipped in my head. And I was like, are you kidding? What am I doing? So right away, I called one of my best friends from law school, Eileen. She is still in LA. And she had this amazing home in Beverly Hills back then. Her husband was very successful. I called her and I told her what was going on. She's like, come live with us. She goes, I'm in this big house by myself and my husband works. So come live with us. And that's when I was like, I'm leaving. I made the decision right at that moment that I was leaving, but, but he didn't know I was leaving because he would try to stop me.

29:19I knew that. So what I did is I packed up as much as I could in two suitcases and a duffel bag and I stuck it in the closet. And the next morning I remember him waking up and going downstairs and I was hoping to wake up before him, but that didn't happen. He woke up really early. He went downstairs and I got myself together and slowly took the suitcases and the duffel bag all hanging on me, slowly tried to go down the stairs without him hearing me because the door was right by the bottom of the stairs. I got to the bottom of the stairs and I heard him coming from around the corner. So I swung the door open.

30:00I'm basically running to my car. He's like, where are you going? What are you doing? Like you started screaming, you know, what what is going on? And I put the suitcases, I put everything in my car. And I said, you told me I could do whatever the F I want. And that's what I'm doing. And I literally screeched out. It was like a movie. I screeched out of the driveway and I left and I went to Los Angeles. Has anyone reached out to you for a movie? Not yet, but they should. Who do we want to direct this for? They should, right. Yeah, I know. It would be amazing. For Savi, Spielberg, let's go. This is Oscar material.

30:38It really is. But I got back together with him after that. Oh, Patty. Why? Again, because I was lonely in Los Angeles. I eventually got an apartment myself. I got a job. And I was just so lonely and he kept begging me to come back, begging me, begging me, begging and pleading with me to come back. And I did. And very quickly, I realized again, he is not the one for me. And the final, final straw was when he had read my emails. He read my emails and... How did he get in there? Great question. I had an issue with my computer and he told me I'll fix it, but he needed my password. So I gave him the password to my computer and he got into my emails and he read it.

31:28And there was nothing in my emails that were bad. He went crazy over, and this is how stupid he was, an email that I sent to a friend of mine talking about how I couldn't wait for he and his wife and his kids to come to LA so we could hook up. And he took hooking up, meaning, I mean, mean how stupid and he brought this to my attention and then that was the final straw that is when I asked him to leave he wasn't living with me I was living in LA who's living in San Diego and I told him get the f out I never ever want to see you again this is truly it do you need a restraining order he no but he would keep coming back I would just find him like by my house I remember there was one day that I went home and this is months after we broke up.

32:17Like he kept showing up at my work events. There was a work event in San Diego and you're going to find this really interesting. There was a work event in San Diego and I had left a box in his house that had my parents' belongings, which meant something to me. So I called him and I said, Hey, I'm coming to San Diego for this work event. Can I stop by after on Sundays? It's Friday through Sunday. Can I stopped by after to pick up the box. He's like, yeah, sure. No problem. And we're just talking. And I'm thinking, okay, we're cool. We're friends. He's like, where is it? I told him at the Hotel Coronado.

32:48And I go, but Sunday, I'll call you and I'll come pick it up. And I remember that Friday, I was sitting in the conference room, watching the person presenting and the conference room had all glass. And I turned to my right and he was outside staring at me. This is a total movie. Yes. It turns into a horror movie. Yes. Staring at me through the glass. Yes. And I'm like, oh my God. So I go in the bathroom and I call him. I'm like, what are you doing? Why are you here? He's like, I need to talk to you. I'm like, I am at a work event for the weekend. Like I can't talk. I was like, leave. We're going to be in this room until five.

33:30So he's like, okay, I'll leave. So I I was trying to just get him to leave. So I come out to go to dinner because, you know, these events, you go to the conference thing and then you go to dinner. He's standing outside waiting for me. Yeah. Trying to force me to get into his car. I didn't do it. I was like, I have to go following the car that I am in with my colleagues. We're laughing about something and him calling me. He's like, I hear you laughing. I'm like, at who? Where are you? You're laughing at me. I'm like, where are you? And he's right next to me. It was crazy. It was crazy. Yeah, he wouldn't leave me alone.

34:10And yeah, I didn't think about getting a restraining order because he finally did leave me alone. But at the he showed up at my house after that, I was pulling into my garage, and I saw him sitting in a car. I was like, Oh, my God. So I opened my garage door. It opens so slowly. I'm like, ah. So I went in and it closed before he could come in. And I was like, go away. I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to see you. Were you physically scared of him? Oh, absolutely. Did he ever? No, he was never physical with me ever. But I was physically afraid. Did you ever get that box back? Yes. So that Sunday, finally, he came back with the box, because I said, bring it and I'll talk to you.

34:53So he brought it. And he was hoping he was begging and pleading. And I actually, to be honest, felt sorry for him. He was just begging and pleading so much for me to come get back together and I was just like I just I knew I couldn't do it do you think part of the draw to him I'm assuming he knew what happened with your parents absolutely and loved you or said he loved you just the same were you worried that another man wouldn't feel that way I don't know if it was more about my parents but I was I was afraid that another man wouldn't love me like he did. I do believe he loved me in a very sick way, but I was just very afraid of being alone.

35:36I think that's what it was. You're such a badass. Are, were. Thank you, yeah. Present tense, past tense, future tense. Lawyer, ran commercial banking teams. Tell me if I'm missing anything. M &A teams. The most literate from book smart to street smart, my God. And so when you come out talking about how financial abuse or financial control can happen to even the most financially literate women, it's truly incredible that you're doing that because I can imagine that you also felt shame around that. Like you got these degrees, you ran these teams about how are you dealing with this? I was a very successful lawyer when I was with him.

36:22Yeah, and this just goes to show that it happens to the best of us because we've been brainwashed to believe that we need a man and that our entire self-worth is dependent on a man choosing us. And unless a man chooses us, we are not good enough. And that is the lie that we've been told that we believe. And this is why we stay in these relationships. It's the number one thing that I see from women that money allows you to have the choice within work, but also within relationships to leave an abusive situation. Because otherwise, there are many women that I see all the time who don't know where the money is, who don't have their own money, and are too scared to leave or too scared, even if they worked in financial services.

37:12We've had women on the show who worked at banks and are like, how does this happen to me? I know this stuff. I do this stuff for other people, but I can't do it for myself. Why is there this disconnect? I think there's a disconnect because we've been told that we're not good with money, even though we work with money, it doesn't matter that we're not good with money. We need to hand over the reins to the man and make him feel like a man because men feel like they need control to feel like a man and they need control over our finances, our lives. They're the ones that need to be the leaders in the home.

37:48And we really succumb to that because we don't want them to feel less than. And you say, understandably, that your partner is the biggest financial decision you will ever make. You've seen a wide spectrum of that. When did you finally get to that conclusion? Was it after this relationship? After this relationship, yes. I really understood that relationships and marriage has very little to do with love, but it is a financial decision. And it's the biggest financial decision you make. And I know that for a fact, because the biggest reasons marriages break up is because of finances. That's the number one reason.

38:29So love has nothing to do with it. Love can't keep you together. Being on the same financial page is what keeps you together. And until you understand that marriage is a financial decision, rather than a love decision, you're going to be in trouble. Well, marriage is contract. Absolutely. And you it's a financial contract. Yes, you're now engaged. Yes. I want to say congratulations, but you're never getting married. No, I'm not. So this was just a commitment and a beautiful ring. Thank you. Yes, it was an extra level of commitment for us. We are life partners. I've been with him for over eight years.

39:13We're very, very happy. But I don't see a need for marriage. And to be honest, marriage is based out of patriarchy. That's where marriage originates from is out of the patriarchal system. So for me, it's rebelling against that a little bit. And I understand that's not the case any longer. But for me, anything that comes from patriarchy is something that I don't want to engage in. So you're going to stay with him as long as you want? As long as I want, as long as he wants. Anyone is free to leave whenever they want. And I think that's the beauty of it, that we're not there because we have a contract telling us that we have to be there or, oh my gosh, it's going to be so difficult to unwind this thing.

39:58We're there because we truly want to be not because we have to be. I assume he is not a broke dude. No, he's not. Definitely not. Of course, your book Never Date a Broke Dude. How did you get to that conclusion that you're also a woman with provocative names for books. Yeah. So I got to that conclusion by dating a few broke dudes. And it was horrible. That was actually the biggest financial mistake I'd ever made in my life. I dated a broke dude for two years. I supported him fully. He didn't pay for anything. And I ended up with my heart broken, him breaking up with me and$30 ,000 in debt. You were in debt.

40:50I was in debt. Because of him. Because of him. Because I had to support two people. I was doing well. I was in my early thirties, but I wasn't making enough to support two people. And I would just put things on my credit card. And I was so afraid to ask him to contribute to anything because I didn't want him to leave. It's like anything to have a warm body next to me as long as you don't leave. And I was afraid to say, hey, can you pitch in for something? Can you pitch in for the groceries? Can you maybe pitch in for the light bill or anything like that? I was afraid to do that. And I wanted to be the ride and die chick.

41:27And that was the biggest financial mistake I've ever made. But this wasn't the five year abusive guy because he bought you No, no, no, no, no, no. So I'm sure he was fine. Yes, he was financially secure. This guy wasn't controlling at all because you can't be broke and controlling. You know, those two things just don't go together. He wasn't controlling. He allowed me to be me. He allowed me to be free, which was very liberating for me. And that's one of the reasons that I liked him so much is because he was like that. But did you have then the control? Because when your mom would tell you whoever has the money has the control.

42:03No, I did not have the control. And the reason I didn't have the control is because of the brainwashing that we are under that regardless of whatever the financial situation is, he's still the man in the relationship. You can't be the man and not do anything that the man is supposed to do. And I didn't know that distinction back then. So what's the distinction now that you believe is the right one? That there is no such thing as being the man in the relationship. That both parties have to be equal in the relationship. They have to have equal say-so in the relationship. Both parties need to contribute financially in the relationship and have decision-making power in the relationship the same and contribute to the household duties, contribute to the child-rearing responsibilities and to the emotional well-being of the relationship.

42:57And until both people are doing that, that relationship is doomed. Do you think that men should avoid broke women? Absolutely. So just broke people should not be in a relationship. Broke people, but here's the difference, Nicole. This is why I don't really talk about dating broke women as an issue. The reason I don't talk about that is because men lead with their money. The guy who's 5 '3", balding, looking like George Costanza, but is a millionaire, He understands that the hot 510 model doesn't want him for his looks, doesn't want him for his personality. His personality cannot be that great.

43:38He leaves with his money saying, I know I don't have these other things, but I can provide you a lifestyle that you would never have without me. And he is okay with that. He's perfectly okay with that. And that's the difference. Women are not okay with somebody wanting them for their money. In fact, women that have a lot of money, we go out of our way to make sure that he wants us for us and that he's not using us versus men don't care. So there's no woman you think that wants to be a sugar mama. I think they may fall into that, but I think that they really have to feel like the man loves them, whether it's true or not.

44:14I don't think a woman says, I don't care if you truly love me for me and you love me for my money. And that's OK.

44:24What are some financial red flags? Because when you're starting to date somebody, you don't know if they're potentially rich or not, unless you're that 5 '3", George Stanzi guy who flaunts it. Most normal people don't lead with that in a dating conversation. So what's a red flag that somebody should watch out for. One of the biggest red flags is if they don't want to talk about money. That is huge. Because if they don't want to talk about money, there's a reason that they don't want to talk about money. And it tells you either they have money issues, or they're secretive about how they spend their money, or they don't want you to know that they don't have any.

45:10So if someone is not willing to talk about money or their finances, that's a huge red flag. Well, we say this on the show all the time. The only financial problem you can't fix is the one you don't talk about or don't admit you up. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you have to have financial discussions before you decide to spend the rest of your life with someone. Because if you're not on the same page financially, like I said, that marriage is not going to last. And we're talking about straight couples here. There's a culture in straight relationships that a man pays on the first date. Do you think a man should pay on the first date to show that he can provide for a woman?

45:48Or do you, you're also a big proponent of female empowerment and equality. Do you think that women should pay on a first date to show independence? I think whoever asks should pay on the first date. That's just etiquette. That's rules of etiquette. If I ask somebody to lunch, I pay, regardless of who it is. But I think we're really caught in this provider and protector mentality, even today. and what we don't understand is that men should be the providers and women are the nurturers comes from this fallacy that men were hunters and women were gatherers that's where it comes from we're saying okay we're not hunting and gather anymore so the men are the providers and protectors and women are the nurturers but that is absolutely false that has been disproven women hunted right along with the men 50 of women hunted right along with the men we're warriors right along with the men.

46:41So this whole provider and protector fallacy is only something that was created by the patriarchy to keep women in check and to keep women under a man's thumb. Because if it came out that we actually hunted and we were actually warriors and we were actually leaders, we wouldn't accept the natural role that they try to force us in. That's right. You tell them, Patty. who paid on the first date in your current relationship he paid because he asked me out first however i'm an equal contributor to the relationship how do you guys work that out he pays once i pay once that's if we just go back and forth do you have a joint account or no absolutely not always everything is separate everything is separate yes we don't own any property together.

47:32We don't have a joint bank account. We don't have any of that. But do you know what's in his bank account and vice versa? Absolutely. Do you have logins? We don't. But if he wanted it, I would give it to him and vice versa. There's no need for that. I don't think I should have control over his personal account. And he shouldn't have control over my personal account. But visibility? Yeah, visibility. Absolutely. So do you think it's a red flag if somebody doesn't share their financial information, login information too? Like if you're in a marriage and you have kids, you know, I have my husband's brokerage login and vice versa and we have all the logins.

48:14You should have all the financial information about assets, bank accounts, 401ks, retirement accounts, whose name is on the deed, who owns the house, insurance, everybody, the trust information. Everyone should have access to all of that information. And not just because your significant other may swindle you. That could be the case. And there's countless stories that would just blow your mind, Nicole, if I told you about how men have swindled women who didn't know anything. But in case something happens to him, I can't tell you how many women have no idea what to do when their husband passes away.

48:54They don't know how much money they have. They don't know what assets they have. They know nothing. It's the time that I see women start to take control of their financial life because they have no other choice when they get divorced or when their spouse dies. And I always say, you need to inspect what you expect. Yeah, because it's too late. Right. At that point. Absolutely. What would you say to stay-at-home moms who might not have their own source of income, but you suggest that they should be financially independent, should they have a secret account? I don't think they should have a secret account because you should never have secrets, but I do think that they should have their own account.

49:36Now, I do think that labor in the home should be compensated monetarily. So I do think that a husband whose wife stays at home, takes care of the kids, she should receive some sort of compensation for that. How does that go? It depends on the couple and what they agree on. But labor in the home costs money. If you were to have somebody else do it, you would be paying that person to do it. Totally. Housekeeper. Exactly. Nanny. Exactly. So if you're not paying somebody else to do it, then you should be compensating your wife. That's something that the husband and wife can come to a conclusion. But I seriously think that is something that everybody should consider if they're staying at home.

50:17because they're also giving up their career and there's opportunity costs in the things that you're giving up, right? Now, if you don't want to do it that way, you can have a side hustle. And right now we're in the digital age where you could literally make money just doing data entry. If you have zero skills, you can still make some money on the side and it doesn't have to be a lot, but start with a little, make some money every single week on the side, put that in an account where you only have access to where you only have control over. So in case something happens, you have options to leave.

50:57So not secret, not sole control. Absolutely. And he should have an account where he has sole control over that money as well. So do you advocate the yours, mine, ours approach for accounts? Yes. Well, if you want a joint account for family expenses or for things like that, that's okay. You can have that account, but the money that goes into your account should come from your personal account that you only have access to. So your paycheck shouldn't be going into the joint account. So if a stay-at-home mom wants to have a conversation like that, but is too nervous, that might just be a red flag in and of itself.

51:39But how can a system like that be set up? There's just a certain percentage of a paycheck that goes into another account. Do you give your significant other who's not stay at home an invoice? How have you seen it best work? I've seen it best work, especially if both people are working. Okay, I think the best way is that each person contributes the same percentage of their salary into the joint account for household expenses. I think that's a really great way of doing it. Okay. Yeah. Cause it's weighted. It's weighted, right? Even though the ultimate numbers are different, it's still fair. And I think that's the fairest way to do it.

52:15If both people are working. If both people are not working, then what I suggest is you really have to be business minded around this. Write down all of the things that you do around the house and how much the average per hour is for those duties. And you tally that up. And you go in with numbers. I always say go in with facts, not feelings. That I do X amount of hours of work around the house. This is how it's broken down. If you were to hire somebody to do all of these things, this is what it would come to. I think it's only fair that I get whatever you think is fair. X percentage of this amount.

52:58And I would like to get that money and put it in an account where I can feel safe, where I can feel secure and have money that I can do whatever I want with. And you just have to do it because if you don't, you will put yourself in a very dangerous situation and it could be literally a matter of life or death like my mother. It's not just about being able to buy a bag. It's not just about being able to buy shoes. It's your life. Because fast forward what that looks like after years and years of resentment and years and years of financial abuse, potentially, correct, where it could lead to the unthinkable.

53:39Yes, absolutely. I know, Dr. Jen Mann, her great aunt, Toni, she had a great saying, and she Dr. Jen Mann was saying that she was the type of woman that got buried in a Chanel suit. And she said every woman should have a few money every woman and she said that years ago and i believe every woman should have a few money to not have to tolerate to not have to tolerate situations that you don't want to tolerate whatever that may be it's different for everybody but if you want to be able to leave a situation you have to have enough money to get a place to live to get a car to be able to support your bills and your children for a period of time until you can get on your feet fully.

54:29That's what you need. So F you money to you is not millions and millions of dollars. It's like the basics. It's your financial go bag. Yes, at least six months of living expenses. That's what that is. The freedom that it gives you makes it F you money, not the amount. I love that. Yeah. Patty, you're an incredible woman. Thank you so much for your insights. We end all of our episodes by asking for a tip that listeners can take straight to the bank. You've already talked about so many when it comes to a relationship. I know you also had some ayahuasca induced revelations. So if you want to leave us with something you learned from an ayahuasca journey, that would be great too i i can tell you my ayahuasca journey so where was it peru it was in peru okay i went to peru because if you really want to do it you have to do it right yeah so i went to peru and i went in the middle of the amazon jungle and i was there for seven days i did ayahuasca for five nights it was the hardest thing i've ever done in my life because you feel like you're going to die.

55:44It's a horrific, very scary experience. But once you come out of it, things come to light that you didn't know before. And what came to light to me is that these men that I had been dating and making excuses for that I was enabling and that I was complicit in allowing them to treat me the way that they treated me. I always used to blame them. but after I did ayahuasca I came to realize that it's not just them you're a player in this and it's actually more you because you're the one that's allowing that behavior it's true yeah when I used to go on dates and you would hear somebody just rail on their ex you haven't done the work right sir exactly it's two you were absolutely pick that person yes and how I knew that the man that I'm with now, Joel was the man is when I asked him about his ex or his exes, he would start talking about his role first.

56:48Oh, Joel. He would, he's never called any of them crazy or anything like that. He would start to talk about what he did and how he allowed certain things to happen. So I was like, okay, this is a healed person. Healed, healed people seek healed people. Yes, exactly. I'm sure you wouldn't have been ready for him. I wasn't I would I wouldn't have even looked at him had I met him five years earlier, even 10 years earlier. I wouldn't have even looked at him. It's always like that. Yeah. Did you guys meet? We met on Bumble. And I thought that he was a broke dude because he told me that he was a musician.

57:30So I was like, I'm not gonna date a broke musician working in a dive bar? What am I going to do with a musician? And I spoke to one of my best friends who's a very successful music producer. And I said, Hey, do you know this guy is? Yeah, he's one of the most sought after guitar players in the country. I was like, Oh, he's that kind of musician. So I gave him a shot. And what did he think when he saw the title of your book? He loved it because he's not a broke dude. It's only the broke men, the men that don't have money, they get offended by that title. Every man that has his own money says, absolutely, you should never date a broke dude.

58:09Every single guy. So tell me about some of the criticism that you received around the title of your book. That I am encouraging women to be gold diggers, which is the antithesis of what this book is about. It's called the Financial Freedom Playbook. And part of it is not dating a broke dude. But if you read the book, it's really teaching women how to be financially, emotionally and mentally independent. That's what the book is about. It's not about gold digging. Listen, I wrote Rich Bitch. Right. Exactly. I heard the same exact thing. I think that you need to write a provocative title or something grabby.

58:54You can't write five rules to financial freedom and expect it to just sell out, right? Absolutely. For this type of topic, you have to draw somebody. No, absolutely. The title has to be provocative, just like Rich Bitch is so great. Thank you. Yeah, it's wonderful. But yeah, you have to have that type of title to just get people's attention. But it's not about that. It's about the substance. Yes. The broke do chapters are really funny. But yeah, that's just one aspect of being financially independent and successful in finances. And I saw that in one of the articles you wrote, it was sort of like a nebulous title that you had.

59:36I'm assuming the company that you were working with didn't want to be associated in your bio or didn't want to? no the companies that I work with I tried to really separate my professional career from my work but no we were going back and forth with the publisher about the title oh interesting yeah we were going back and forth about the title and the publisher like wanting to change it to maybe never date a broken dude or something that's not as jarring and I said no we have to keep it I'm on your team. Thank you. The thing I want to leave with women is that you don't need a prince. Your prince is not coming.

1:00:21And if he does, he may not stay. So you better figure out a way to give yourself the life that you want. Make your own money, make your own dreams come true, because that gives you power, that gives you safety and choices. Because that prince can come and go. and that prince is typically a fallacy. So stop waiting for a prince. Be your own prince? That's in my book. I have a chapter that says, be your own prince charming. Absolutely. Are you? Yes. I am my own prince charming. For sure.

1:00:58Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoie. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions, moneyrehab at moneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram at moneynews and TikTok at moneynewsnetwork for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.

1:01:37Thank you.