"The Wall Street Mentalist" Oz Pearlman on Making Your Side Hustle Fears Disappear

0:00I recently went on a quick beach trip with my husband for a little couples time and it was perfect. We sat in the sun, swam in the ocean, and generally just tried to get to that place of deep relaxation where your shoulders actually drop a few inches. Do you know what else can give you that feeling? Co-hosting with Airbnb. Trust me on this one. Hosting your home on Airbnb while you're away from home is a great way to make some extra cash and make sure your home is working as hard as you do. But knowing where to start can feel overwhelming. That's where co-hosts come in. These are local experts who can help make hosting even easier by taking care of all the little details back home while you're off enjoying yourself.

0:40Co-hosts can handle everything from staging your space to communicating with guests to offering on-site support so nothing interferes with your time away from home. Whether you're living the digital nomad life or just taking a well-deserved reset, I love this for you. Looking to get started? Find a co-host at airbnb.com slash host. Your financial journey shouldn't be a solo mission. Am I right? I am. You need a banking partner who's genuinely invested in your success story. U.S. Bank gets it. They don't just show up for your account opening and then ghost you. If you're saving for that engagement ring, they're cheering you on.

1:17If you're buying your first home, they're right there with you. If you're planning for retirement, they're still your biggest supporter. It's about having a financial teammate who believes in your potential and backs it up with real tools and real people who actually care. See what genuine partnership looks like at usbank.com because together we're unstoppable. That's the power of us. Equal housing lender. Member FDIC. Trademark 2025 U.S. Bank. I once interviewed the CEO of a credit bureau and he confessed that his assistant has a better credit score than he does. Why? Because she's more organized.

1:52Yep, even the head of the credit bureau can use a little help in the credit score department. If you can, too, then listen up, because Chime has a card that can help you do just that. Chime turns everyday spending into real rewards and progress. Not like old school banks that charge you overdraft and monthly fees. Built for you, not the 1%. Imagine cash back and credit building with your own money, finally on the same card. No annual fees, no interest, and no strings attached. And when you get qualifying direct deposits, you get 1.5 % cash back on eligible Chime card purchases. Chime is not just smarter banking.

2:27It is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to Chime.com slash MNN. That is Chime.com slash MNN. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services, a secured Chime Visa credit card, and MyPay line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. MyPay eligibility requirements apply, and credit limit ranges$20 to$500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See Chime.com slash fees info. Advertised annual percentage yield with Chime Plus status only.

2:53Otherwise, 1.00 % APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on-time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See Chime.com for details and applicable terms. I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab.

3:15Okay, money rehabbers, what do a magician and Sam Bingbenfried have in common? They can both make your money disappear. Okay, so I'm not going to quit my day job, but today I'm talking to a guy who did quit his day job to pursue magic. Not only can Oz Perlman, aka the Wall Street mentalist, make your money disappear, but he can also do much cooler tricks like turning ones into 100s. I would love to know that trick, please and thank you. Today I talked to him about how he left his comfy finance job to take a bet on himself and what steps he would recommend anyone else take before making the same leap themselves.

3:52And for the grand finale, Oz did a trick for me over Zoom that blew my mind. I was dying dead deceased. It was fucking crazy. I'm also going to post this video on our Instagram at Money News. So if you don't already, follow us to make sure you can see it first. Not overselling this, I promise. Oz Perlman, welcome to Money Rehab. Thanks for having me on, Nicole. So excited to talk with you. You are a mentalist, but you began your career at Merrill Lynch. That's right. I did. They call me the Wall Street mentalist now. So which path your life takes you in, I never would have predicted. Fascinating.

4:34Two of my favorite things smushed together. Obviously, being a mentalist is so, so fascinating. And I want to get there and even put you to the test. But we're on Money Rehab, of course. And because I'm a nerd, I want to hear about your Merrill Lynch time first. So what were you doing there? What drew you to Wall Street? So I didn't have any idea of what I wanted to do. I think like a lot of people, you know, late teens, 20s, I had no clue. I started in computer engineering, which I didn't like at all. The first time I did write a 3000 line program, I go, this is not for me, but I had a very good mathematical mind.

5:10Even when I was a kid, I would tabulate when I was like eight years old, how much the pizza would cost with the tax, 8%. My parents were like, how do you know this? Before it'd ring up. So I just love doing that stuff. I switched to electrical engineering. I got an internship with Merrill Lynch. And then lo and behold, it turned into being an associate, kind of an analyst there initially. I worked in technology. So I kind of was a project manager, if you will, that helped the people doing finance, the investment bankers. So I was not really directly in finance, but I was, you know, call it lateral.

5:43I started learning more and more about the business because I was helping them manage some of their projects and buying servers. And then you left Merrill, right, a big institution to take a big bet on yourself. Being a mentalist was kind of your side hustle and then you turned it into your main hustle. Can you explain or paint the picture of that time and how you made that decision to go out on your own? And I kind of got to that point where I was so busy. Every weekend I was working. After work, I would go work at restaurants, and I was the magician at the restaurant. So I had a real mind for sales and the fact that I knew who my target market was, and I marketed to them.

6:22I wasn't going to go do stuff at like a Chuck E. Cheese because I didn't want to do shows for kids. I want to do shows for adults. And I was doing this on the side, and I think I came to a point where I didn't know that I could do this for a living. but I just was so busy and I had an actual aha moment with the CFO of my company where he didn't know I was hired internally. I was at a party. I did something for Merrill Lynch and I did a trick, speaking of money rehab, where I take five$1 bills. I snap my fingers, they turn to 500s. And this guy, his name is James Gorman. He's the CEO of Morgan Stanley.

6:56He says to me, he goes, and he's Australian. He goes, he goes, we got to have you working here, mate. And everyone's laughing and I go, I do work here. And he thought it was a joke. He thought it was joking. And I go, no, man, I work in your global technology service department. He goes, and he literally looks me in the eye. And you know, you have those moments in life where I can see it. He looks me in and goes, what are you doing working here? And it's like, you know, the CEO of the company, my boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss goes, what are you doing working here? Yeah. And I think just in my mind, a switch flip.

7:26And I go, what am I doing working here? I guess your interest in magic, in misdirection, I suppose, predates your interest in Wall Street, right? I was reading that you were performing at kids' birthday parties when you were a teenager. Yeah. So I was doing this since I was a teenager. When I was 13, I got into it. I saw a magician. I was blown away. And then I got every book. I read it cover to cover. And I was like, not even 100%, 150 % into it. And then how did the mentalist stuff happen? So mentalism is kind of like a specialty, right? It's a subset within magic. So magic is all about fooling your eyes.

8:04Mentalism, while fooling is a part of it, is kind of taking you on a journey through your mind because there's no props. You don't need a deck of cards. What you need is to know how people behave. It's almost like behavioral economics. When you see somebody who's really sharp, they know the way the market moves because they know that people, individuals, act rationally. Groups act irrationally. So I know how to predict people's behaviors in certain instances. I know how to influence them. And I can kind of take you on a journey of showing that I know how you think. And I can kind of predict what you'll do before you even do it in a lot of instances.

8:38Oh, I can't wait to experience that myself. But before we get to that, so did you think about your experience in building your brand as you were leaving, Meryl? Or did you kind of make it up as you went along? Is there anything you wished you known then when you first took the leap? Oh my God, so many things. So at the time when I went for this and I said, I'm going for it, there's no playbook to be a mentalist. Like there's no book that says, here's how you become a star that I've ever found. You gotta make it up as you go along, like you said. So I think one of the key things in life is find the people who have done what you wanna do How did they get there?

9:17And I think that unless you ask them, you'll never know. I reached out to a lot of magicians I saw on TV. I would do good old fashioned email or call someone on the phone or try to find somebody who knows them and work your network. The next thing I started doing early on is you don't want those pie in the sky goals of, oh, well, I want to be on TV. That's a ridiculous goal. Say, I want to be on this show within the next nine to 12 months. How do I do that? How do I do that? And start looking at patterns and say, well, who books the show? A TV producer. How do I get in touch with them? Or even better, how do I have them get vouched for by somebody who knows them well?

9:56If somebody knows you really well, is blown away and you find out, oh my God, I know the producer of Ellen, put me in touch. Now you've got a qualified lead. Honestly, most of my job was not entertainment. It was sales and marketing. And I realized that very early on. My goal really wasn't to be the best entertainer. It was to be very successful. And those are different. Obviously, if you have a great show, that's terrific. But there's a lot of people with great shows you've never heard of because they didn't market it effectively. They didn't promote their brand effectively. They did a lot of things.

10:27I don't want to say wrong, but they didn't realize what the laser focus was to achieve their goals. And you have to write those goals down. People don't do that, I find. I did. And how did you figure out the best way to sell yourself, so to speak? So that's a great question in two regards, which is not how do you sell yourself, but what is yourself? So what was my product? And it took me years to figure that out, honestly. But now what I really sell to companies is memorable experiences and a value that goes beyond entertainment. Like I'll give you a great example. I did a show recently, a pharmaceutical company.

11:02Let's say you have an incoming CEO, this pharmaceutical company. this CEO was there for three months. They had a merger. The culture's a little bit shaky. Some people got let go. This is a meeting where people are kind of on edge. And this new CEO, people are more scared of than like this person. So what I did was I brought them up. I did a fun trick with them, made them look like a star. I humanized them. They showed all of a sudden that they took their armor off and everyone loved it. And they loved it too, because at the end of that meeting, everyone came up to them and go, oh my God, how did he do that with you?

11:34And did you know, were you in a, and suddenly people that never would have spoken to this person, this new CEO went up and they had a conversation piece and opened up. And I got an email from that person the next day being like, you have no idea what that value was. I'm providing a value that goes beyond entertainment. That's what I strive to do. And learning my target market was at a certain point I'm relating to corporate audiences. I'm not really going to perform in casinos as often or tour like a music act. I'm a corporate entertainer. That's my background. That's my unique sound proposition.

12:07So how would you explain that to potential clients, brands? Would you work with agencies? Would you do all of the above? So for me, my number one marketing tool, and I think you have to figure this out in whatever your industry is, you've got to know where are people discovering you. And is that by word of mouth? Is that on Instagram ads? Is that just by finding your social? like learning where people are discovering you is huge. For me, it's mostly word of mouth. People see me, they love what I did. They want me to do that at their XYZ event that's similar. Some people see me on TV. And then my biggest tool is my promo video.

12:43It's three minutes, which is kind of long. I even have one that's one minute that if you watch it, even if it's muted, you get certain things that hit you. Like I want to get inside your brain the same way a really good advertising agency does and realize what are you thinking? while you're watching it? Am I creating credibility? Are you seeing people you recognize? I'm always dressed in a suit and tie. That's what I perform in in most instances. Now, a lot of entertainers are more rock and roll. A lot of people that do what I do are not gonna fit that mold and kind of be square. But I made that decision about eight years ago because I knew the people that are booking me and what they're looking for.

13:19So it's funny, I'm creating the brand based on my target market and knowing this from talking to bookers. find these people that you work with and then ask them for candid advice be like hey what have you liked with people you've booked in the past what have you not liked and the people that are your target consumer if they can give you that knowledge or if you can take them out to lunch or you know buy them a gift basket find creative ways people do well with flattery and bribery you know but there's nothing like sending somebody a great gift basket and then you're like wow you really went the extra mile.

13:54Handwritten notes. I used to send people a photo as a postcard for 10 years. At every gig I would do, I would take a photo with the birthday boy, the birthday girl. I did private parties. And I would always send the parents a picture of me and their kid smiling and laughing with me doing something magical. They get that card thanking them, telling them how great the party was, pointing out a few nice details about their child, which everyone loves to hear. It's all about benefits to your clients. It's not about me. It's about showing you that like I'm going the extra mile for you to make this a unique, memorable experience.

14:28Totally. I mean, I probably built my career on handwritten notes and really thoughtful, random gifts that I would send people like not extravagant, but something that they had either spoken about or we had spoken about. I've sent Argyle socks. I've sent cat poo coffee. I've sent a lot of weird stuff, but it's it's paid dividends. Right. I like how the listeners are in the cat poop coffee, cat poop coffee, argyle socks, check. Nicole, we got this. We're taking our business to the next level, baby. That's all you need. Hold on to your wallets. Money Rehab will be right back.

15:11And now for some more Money Rehab. so i'm curious i know part of the strategy behind mind reading tricks is actually planting somewhat subconscious unconscious you tell me idea into people's minds so what can people listening do to utilize some of those strategies when they're at work like asking their boss for a raise getting people to do things for you it's kind of like breadcrumbs it's creating that path of breadcrumbs that leads you to the prize. So I think making a case for you to get a raise is over delivering, constantly exceeding expectations. And I think you've got to be your own best cheerleader.

15:54You want to do it in a way that's not grandiose, but showing where you've delivered time and time again, and not just letting that go. And I think that's really important. I don't want to say you build a case, but you show how time and again, you're willing to take on responsibility. When I get calls for TV shows and somebody goes, can you do this? I always say yes. I might have no idea. I might hang up the phone, cold sweats, hyperventilating into a bag, and it's like, oh, what am I going to do? But I'm going to say yes, and then I'm going to figure out how to do it. People that rise to the challenge, you see the cream rise to the top, who makes that senior leadership position?

16:28It's usually the person who's the first at the meeting to go, I got that boss. And then not only do they hit it, they hit it out of the park. So you want to be that person who kind of shines in your field. What can I do that differentiates me? And if I can't differentiate, what in my market makes me the best? And define those for yourself. Don't hope other people define them for you. Yeah, but like, how do you leave breadcrumbs for your boss if you want to raise? You can't just be like, so, Mr. Gorman, it'd be awesome if I could add a zero to my paycheck. Well, I think first off, timing is everything in life.

17:07So read the tea leaves as to when the good timing is. You can catch people at certain moments. And I've had moments in life that are, you know, call it luck, call it timing or a healthy mix of both. But when someone's in a great mood, that's the time to ask for something. So try to start noticing people's patterns. Is it right after a holiday or vacation, they come back all loose and relaxed and suddenly you've got a captive audience versus if they're super stressed. When I used to get gigs at restaurants, who wants this nerdy dude who's 14? I was like four foot nothing, walking up to the table.

17:39I knew it was a heavy lift. What I would do, I learned early on, go when they're not busy. So between shifts, between 2.30 and 4, there's nobody in the restaurant. Everyone's there hanging out. And now don't go in asking for something. If you're a salesman, people are on guard. If you're a customer, they treat you well. So when I go up, I go up to like the restaurant, I get something like a lemonade and then I'd show a trick to my waiter or waitress because they have to serve you. And they're like blown away. Oh my God. And they're going to naturally go up and get somebody else. Can I bring my friend?

18:10I go, yeah, bring them over. And I would get five or six waiters, waitresses, bartenders around me. And I go, is the manager here? And they go, yeah, bring them over. Now you're giving them a value. Now I don't leave without getting a job. And what I would do again, this is not apropos to you getting a raise in corporate, but I want to see the parallel. I now give them a no-lose proposition. I go, hey, look at all the people you get in here at night, right? Why don't I do this the same way you were impressed? Why don't I come here on a slow night for you like a Tuesday? Don't pay me a penny. No money.

18:42It's very hard to say no when someone's offering something for free. I go, when every single person leaves that night, they're going to tell you they had the best time. They're going to come back again next week with friends. And now instead of getting tips, I would tell every table, don't give me a tip. When you leave, tell the manager and the hostess that you had the best time ever and how much you want to come back. And they go, of course we will. And I would land nine out of 10 of those jobs when I would do that. So make a case that's undeniable. Show proof that you've delivered and over-delivered, right?

19:14Take on some big swings and big responsibilities. And like I said, know the right time to approach it and always ask for more than you want, because you can always go down when you can negotiate. You never go up. So let's say you want a 5 % raise, you start at a 15 % raise. And they go, what, 15 %? What about 10? You go, all right, I didn't want to do it, but I'll work with you and we'll do 12 and a half. Bam. You never start with what you want. Number one thing to listen to from this whole podcast, always start bigger and you can work your way down and never take it personally. Negotiations are about business.

19:49They're not hating you or rejecting you. It's business. It's not personal. Could not possibly agree more. Sorry for the long rant. I got motivated and excited. We love it. It's such, such good advice. And it's such good sales methodology to not sell and to play this long game, right? Because if you wanted a paycheck right then and there, you probably wouldn't have gotten it. In fact, you were already in a deficit by buying a lemonade and getting there. I'm already in the hole. And And then talk about money when you're in the power position. So again, I would come back two weeks later and say, this is going great here, isn't it?

20:26And then we talk about money. I provided value to you. So it's only fair that we'll talk about how you can provide value back to me. Plus now you want me because now you have customers coming back and they're expecting me to be there. So in whatever business you're in, whether that's upwards to a boss or you run the business is negotiate. once you have the power position, realize who needs who more and act accordingly. Smart. And I bet at that time, you probably weren't rolling in it. So like you really did need the money. I don't know where you were going home to after like if you were struggling to pay bills or something like how do you keep that aside?

21:03Like how do you not show that you're really literally thirsty or hungry? Fully. So there's a real power to saying no. You know, they always say there's a term like it takes 10 years to become an overnight success. I quit my job 10 years before I was on America's Got Talent. And that show was like what blew up my career. That was the first big thing. Suddenly people knew who I was. And instead of me just doing restaurants in New York, I was doing shows all over the country. At that point, I had to turn down a lot of work from people that had hired me before. And suddenly you hit another rung, your rates go up.

21:34And a lot of these people can't afford to pay you and kind of take it personally. So you need to know when in your career you can say no but know that sometimes even if you're thirsty you don't want to come off thirsty you do not want to say hey i'll do this and devalue yourself which is very easy when you're on the come up because you want that paycheck and you don't realize that if you negotiate down whatever you negotiated down to is your rate for everything because now you're going to be negotiable with everyone so if you decide you are going to negotiate down take away something of value.

22:08If your price is$100 and you say, I can't do it, will you do 80? And you go, all right, I'll do it. Then you have no integrity. So you need to take something away. Say, well, I'll do this, but I'm not going to be able to do this thing on stage and I'm going to have to stay a half hour less. Now you've shown why you reduced your price. I think that's very important in any type of negotiation is find a reason for why you're willing to, I'm not going to say capitulate or give up, but why you're reducing your cost. But what if you need it? Like, what if you legit don't just want it, but need it? So then if you legit need it, you need to know when the timing is right.

22:45That's kind of like the same thing. Don't go to your boss when they're super stressed and be like, hey, man, can I have a raise? Or can I, what do you think? That's a terrible time to do it. So set yourself up for success and get a little piggy bank going. Get yourself comfortable enough that when you decide to make those types of big moves, whether it's leaving to go out on your own, try to get a raise, trying a new position where you might take like a haircut on price on like what you make. I know a lot of people that change professions, made less money, but they traded their happiness. And trust me, we only live once.