AI Hype Vs. Reality 2024 - The State of Emerging Technologies w/ Salim Ismail | EP #115

28:37So I think the idea of agents being able, when you ask a question of Google, for or whatever it becomes, I'm not exact, Google for. Great. GPT -40, whatever is next. And it can spin up a multitude of agents to go do a bunch of research, a bunch of different areas, and then come back with a consolidated answer. That is a big deal. It's a big deal, and Eric Schmidt talked about this, and I think we're going to cover that. It's unbelievable. I hate the term, agentech AI. I just... Why? I think that was pretty cool. I mean, it sounds like a drug. I had to look it up the first time. I am. Yeah. Why not just say agent -based.

29:22Anyway, that's just my biases or whatever. Real quick, I've been getting the most unusual compliments lately on my skin. Truth is, I use a lotion every morning and every night religiously called one skin. It was developed by four PhD women who determined a 10 amino acid sequence that is a synolytic that kills senile cells in your skin. And this literally reverses the age of your skin. And I think it's one of the most incredible products. I use it all the time. If you're interested, check out the show notes. I've asked my team to link to it below. All right, let's get back to the episode. So this is from the co -founder of Zapier.

30:01He says AI language models have stalled in the progress of AGI. An increasing scale will not help what is inherently limited technology. I'm not gonna play the video here, But there is a lot of conversation around will we get a GI right? This is almost all these things become religious in one standpoint There's a group of folks who say no, we're not gonna get there. We don't have you know listen the Nvidia chips the the GPUs and the and the current The card large language models genera i and the amount of data Just isn't enough and others like are you kidding me? We're already there I have a little insight that we did that I'd love to talk about here.

30:50Okay. I love you. So I did a little short conversation with Hodlipson, who's an AI researcher, does has a lab at Columbia where they build self -assembly robots with recursive algorithms to figure out how robots can self -improve and survive and build in survival bias, etc. into the robots and he did something really profound and he has an angle to this and I think really is the more most In depth and clear that I've ever seen around the question of AGI and he basically said the extent of self -awareness of any being is the ability to view itself in the future Like you and I are pretty good at knowing thinking what we might look like in five years or what life might be like in five years and we can contemplate that a Mosquito can't do that, right?

31:38A dog can do it for like a few hours type of thing. So he took that. Well, I mean, like a dog can do it cause it's anticipating a walk or dinner. Yeah, it can, it has some concept of what modeling itself into the future. In the near future. Yeah. In the near future in that case, we can look out years. Sure. And so basically use that vector and he went to Gemini and Chachipete and said, how would you view yourself in a few years? And apparently the question was shut down completely by the AI, there are guardrails that have been put into these AI models that essentially forbid the AI from picturing itself in the future or in the past.

32:15Okay? And he thinks this is deliberate, that whole vector where AI seem to become sentient from freaked out all the AI researchers and they shut it down. Or this may be what happened at Chanchi PT. And now they've put guardrails and you can't ask the question. So go try that out. Of course, I'm going to go do that. If you finish it, I'm going to ask it. But it's a really fascinating thing to think about is that once you open up that, and somebody will, because once you have the open source models, you can load it up and ask for the question you want, once you get to that, and an AI can perceive itself, create a model of itself in the future, a hard conclusion is itself awareness comes very rapidly after that, and a sense of self emerges very quickly.

32:59that combined with massive access to computation and information changed the game completely. So that's there's something really incredibly powerful that we should double out more into. I love that idea. So it is true, just going back to this, it is true that the AGI models, AI models and LLMs have kind of stalled, but I think this is normal. I remember that conversation I had with Jeffrey Hinton back in 2017 and asked him what's the next steps in AI and he said we've reached the end of what we can do with deep learning. we need the next step and we don't know what that is. And literally a few months later, the transformer paper is released.

33:35I think we've now kind of seven, eight years later, come to the limitations and the boundary conditions for LLMs and now we're gonna go to the next level and again we don't know what that is, but it's being birthed right now as suspect. Eric Schmidt, love the man. He's amazing. He's been an incredible benefactor, the XPRIZE and he's a very expansive thinker. In the news this week, a couple of comments that he's made, one about AI models and one about whether Google is losing the race with OpenAI and why. Let's talk about what he said this this week about what's coming up next year. Celine, why you cover that when I'll cover the Google OpenAI?

34:18Yeah, you know when you look at how evolution works, right? You take half your genes from your mother and half your genes from your father and you cross it and then survive and natural selection will pick the best traits going forward. And I think what's happening here is we've developed these different threads in AI in the case of Eric, he says we've got large contacts with those agents and text action. So we take the kind of genetic capabilities I'm using the term loosely. And now you combine them, the potential outputs and the outcomes will be really powerful and incredibly powerful. And I think I'm incredibly excited where AI goes with this.

34:55Yeah, I mean what could possibly go wrong? I mean, so large context windows, I mean, just to dive in to teach those elements here, we're talking about, you know, loading in books and ultimately libraries, movies, everything, and having, you know, so one of the future versions of AIs are AIs on your employee team, right? So you can imagine having AI agent who steps in for marketing or design or tech. And it reads every email ever written inside your organization. It reads every Slack channel. And so on day one, that AI employee knows everything and is able to hold all of that in context. That's incredible.

35:48So for me, this becomes like the slide rule to Excel spreadsheet shift, right? Every single employee, every single manager will have access to multiple agents that has access and can look at all the information in a firm collectively and will just become better decision -making engines. Again, in one vector, but I think this is huge. Potential here is unbelievable. And then text action is the fact that where AI's don't live in full isolation. There is a point now where you can say that your AI could be dinner, go and find this information, go physically, clean this thing, I mean, especially, we'll talk about robots a little bit, where robots become physical extensions of AI is in the world.

36:39The ability for AI is to... to have agenteic capabilities. I know you'll love that word. Well, I think once you have an AI that can program, which we cross that Rubicon with GPT three and four, you essentially have the ability for any AI to impact the real world. Because so many of our devices are programmable devices and we're essentially turning the world into information which can then be programmed. And therefore, we've crossed that divide. And now, an AI has true agency in terms of what it can achieve in the physical world. There's a really important other piece of just to be, go here relating back to the other one, which is that when we talk about intelligence, it turns out that the evolution of intelligence was almost completely the adaptive need to navigate in the physical world.

37:33And so again, let's cover that more in the robotics part, but that's a huge rationale now for why evolution created intelligence in New York to our cortex to have functions in the first place. All right, let's talk about the second one. Google losing OpenAI, you know, I've got to imagine that at the executive conversations at Google, they're like, WTF is going on here. You know, how did we possibly get into this situation? Well, here's what Eric thinks made them second tier to OpenAI in some areas. Google decided that work -life balance and going home early and working from home was more important than winning.

38:13And the startups, the reason startups work is because the people work like hell. And I'm sorry to be so blunt. But the fact of the matter is if you all leave the university and go found a company, you're not going to let people work from home and only come in one day a week. Wow, pretty damn spot on and Balsey of Eric to say that. And I listen, I know this is, okay, maybe we're going to disagree on this, right? Because in the whole EXO model, you know, it's like just distributed and all those benefits, but listen, the companies that I've seen, I've invested in, the companies I've built, when you're there in the thick of it physically all together seven days a week, you've got I just went and visited Zipline and I just did a podcast with the CEO of Zipline.

39:10When I was physically there, the energy of hundreds of people literally crammed into this office with dashboards up on the walls. You don't get that virtually. You don't get that kind of energy that kind of drive. I mean, it's a new organism that comes out. when I was at figure with Brett Adcock, the team is there, 7 a .m. to 9 p .m. every day. And they're excited about what they're building. I don't know, work from home. Okay. I think there's two different topics that he's conflating here in it. I take the very, very big risk of disagreeing with Eric, which is one of the smartest and wisest people in the world.

39:58I think the work from home versus physical presence does have a factor. And I totally agree with you there, right? There's an energy that comes from, like for example, we just had a massive win at OpenEXO and I can't, I can't high five anybody around me. And there's a big loss from that, that connection, that human connection. Go straight back to the comment we just had around human beings and being physically in mode. You know, year for years, we thought virtual conferences would take over real conferences, but people love the scarcity of the human connection and in -person conferences are more popular than ever.

40:33So I completely get the in -person versus remote work and the difference there. I disagree that that's the reason that AI is opening as beating Google. And I'll take you back to Facebook, okay? Facebook beat Yahoo and MySpace and Google, etc. with this very simple organizational heuristic, which was Zuckerberg set to his developers, if you think your code is ready to ship, just go live on the live site. You better make sure you've tested the hell out of it. But the developers had this unbelievable sense of empowerment. And they were like, wow, the trust he trusts us with this amazing. And they put, we're putting on features 10 times faster than Yahoo or Myspace or Google.

41:20Okay. It comes down to organizational The fact that in Google, if you talk to Google employees today to try and get anything done, there's so much bureaucracy. It's taking forever to do. That's the thing that's slowing it down. I think he's conflating those two things. Operating in a big company today means you have these control framework layers, etc. And I've got all sorts of war stories from Yahoo. But the reason Yahoo failed is Terry Semmel by accident put in a classic matrix structure and managed the company. And that structure is great for scaling and control, but it's terrible for taking risk, and it's terrible for speed.

41:57And if you're on the consumer internet, the two attributes you better have are speed and risk. You look at Google and how much investment they put into Google Plus. They had all the world's top researchers. The product was absolutely brilliant, but all the internal hurdles of having a navigate should connect with the YouTube ID system. and whatever, basically by the time they got through all of that, Facebook was gone. And so this is the issue, I think, of the internal organizational design, much, much more so than whether people come in or they work. I do agree with you there, agility. Agility always wins.

42:31We've studied this to death in the EXO model, right? And I'll just carry out this little quick plug here. We studied the Fortune 100 and said, okay, how many of these use the EXO model or the attributes in the model like autonomous teams, community, dashboards, whatever. And we found that in the Fortune Run 100 over a seven year period, the companies that followed the model the most delivered 40 times a shareholder returns in the companies that followed the model the least. So really comes down to the organizational design as a main heuristic for survival in the future. And this is where companies will end up following this structure because we now have so much proof the more of the model to use the better he'll do.

43:14So I think without realizing it, Eric is commenting on the organizational structure of Google versus OpenAI being comprised of small teams that are just doing whatever they all there are. And the sad thing, of course, and I discuss this with Eric when he was with us at abundance last year, at the abundance summit, was that Google had a massive lead in AI, head of everybody, and was actually being respectful and careful and not putting it out before it was fully tested. And then when Sam Altman put out, you know, Chad G .P .T. it was like, okay, gloves are off, you know, put on the racing sneakers, let's go.

43:58And to give them full credit, they've responded incredibly well. German eyes amazing what it can do. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to take anything away from Google. I they are the drug and not I would still never bet against them But they're they're they've got they've got real competition It's the curse of being a big company the control framework So you have to put in place prevent you from being nimble and today the name of the game is being nimble For sure Let's talk about this so our friend Eman Mustafa previously CEO of Open of OpenAI. Stability. Stability puts out a paper called How to Think About AI.

44:41And I did a podcast with him. I think Emod is pretty damn brilliant. And it's a great paper. We'll put the link in the show notes to this podcast that I think people should read. I'm just going to point out a few things. He is still a believer that AI is going to be creating as many or more jobs than it's going to steal. He talks about one of the ideas that was discussed on the stage at abundance last year of this AI Atlantis imagining you continent is created of 100 million AI researchers who work for a few electrons versus pizzas under the door. And your ability to get access to intelligence and use it is demonetizing and democratizing around the world.

45:38I know you had a chance to look at this a little bit. Any comments about what EMODs thoughts are here? I'm in total accordance with almost everything that EMODs said. I've been on the soapbox of AI's. who won't take all the jobs, I'm very clear about that. I finally have a decent rationale around that, by the way. I'd like to hear that. So I was part of a kind of a working group with Eric Brinjalsson and a few others on AI and employment, right? And those are really powerful framing that I've not forgotten. And they said, look, a job is not just a job. I feel like a customer service person. It actually, you take that, let's say you're a financial advisor.

46:19There's different components of that job that can be broken down to a set of actual tasks. And the tasks would be interface with the customer, do some research, make investment decisions and act out on those investment decisions, etc. Well, an AI to say the 27 tasks that go into being a financial advisor might automate like 10 of them, but it doesn't automate the rest of them. And so what happens is a job doesn't you lose the job you lose the tasks You automate the tasks which makes you more powerful and you spend more time on the other areas Which is human interaction and thinking about the future etc And therefore the recent aIs don't take all the jobs It's they're not covering the job they're covering one specific task or other even even aGI only cover specific areas It'll increase but more and more that's why the you will have amplified jobs, not radical job loss, except for the areas we're doing one thing at a time.

47:21If you were in the industrial revolution of widget stamping, a human widget stamping out things on an assembly line, that job went away because it was one thing. So that I found was the best framing I've seen for why AI's won't take a lot of jobs. So listen, I do think that is the case today that AI's can do 80%, but not 100 % of a job, and therefore they're freeing up people and humans do the whole job with the supportive AIs. But I have a hundred percent confidence that AIs will get to a point where they can do a hundred percent of the job. And from everything I've seen, what I used to think would be the holdout of humanity, that interpersonal relationship, the ability to be compassionate and understanding and patient and that human connection, holy shit, I've seen AI's do a much better job on that than humans.

48:24Agreed. Agreed. But I think this, I'll take you back to the autonomous driving conversation, right? Okay. We had autonomous cars since the Google car in 2008. And we confidently predicted that in a decade, you'd have more than 20 % penetration of autonomous cars out in 12, et cetera. And the answer of the reason is that even in an autonomous car, those little edge cases of a bicyclist overtaking another bicyclist and now you have to kind of go wider because of that or just avoiding bottles, we can't do, there's all these edge cases that we can't cover 100 % of because human beings are so good at adaptive physical intelligence that a human robot driver can't cover all of that and is very far away from that.

49:12Therefore, we're very far away from that domain. I think we're going to end up with the same paradigm around this. However, two -year point, I think what we'll do is reframe what we mean by a job so that a -as can take more and more of it and therefore the human being gets squeezed over time. There's a lot. I really commend this paper to everybody. You could listen to my podcast with E -Mod on this subject, but if you haven't yet go and - And E -Mod tweeted the whole paper on his thing. So at E -Mod if you want to go check it out. Yeah, for sure. You just have to read it like four times to get your head around it.

49:45But it's beautifully written. All right, last subject on AI before we go to other fun subjects like Nouralink and Robots. I added this because I think one of the conversations that's not sufficiently being discussed is the power requirements of AI. So today, the US has is generating about four terawatt hours per year of energy. And if you look at energy, I should have put the chart on here, but if you look at energy historically of the last 20 years and our current predicted growth in energy, it's pretty flat. The US is not adding more capacity at the rate that it should be. China on the other side of the equation has blown through the US.

50:43It's like tripled its total capacity on its way to co -droopling its total capacity. India has been increasing and doubling.

50:53And there's an estimate that by 2030, AI is going to require 100 % of today's US energy grid production. AI is a very hungry beast. And so we're going to need some new sources of energy. And the reason I added this is I think, you know, generation for nuclear is one of the most important technologies that's being held back by public opinion and regulation. I think it's super safe and so China demonstrates first entirely melt down proof nuclear reactor. That's incredible. It's like why not have nuclear energy, right? We're going to have fusion eventually got it and solar is on the increase, but Gen 4 nuclear that is fail safe, meetings when it's when it's fail when it fails it's safely contained.

51:48I put this in my backyard how about you what are your thoughts here? I completely agree I think the whole small nuclear and meltproof nuclear is the future to cover the base load until we generate enough battery storage that we're solar can take over and other things. I think what I find powerful framing here is the same conversation that's happening in Bitcoin where people go, oh my god, Bitcoin consumes the energy that Portugal uses and therefore we should shut it down. And what's happening is we're finding all sorts of like, for example, if you have a hydroelectric dam in the far north of Quebec, it takes so long for the transmission thing.

52:28You've lost the energy by the time you get it down, you were useful. Therefore, the hydroelectric dams that's empty, however, now you can put a Bitcoin facility next to it and essentially turn that energy into something useful. About six months ago, we crossed 50 % Bitcoin mining by renewables. The next marginal 50 % will be just, the next chunk will be all renewables. I think the same thing happened with AI. We'll start putting AI data centers in the next slide. Which is a wherever there. We'll put it within our jobs. Yeah. A month ago, I was in Kazakhstan. And there's a there's a valley in the east of Kazakhstan with the wind just flows and they've put a gigawatt wind farm there It's so far.

53:11It's not that useful for anything But an AI data center and a Bitcoin mining thing beautiful So I think the when we think about the fact that we have what 8 ,000 times more energy hitting the earth than we use We'll just start tapping into that to do all this and power all the other stuff So I don't worry about energy at all. Well, I worry about it in the US if it becomes the limiting factor for the US being able to stay ahead in the energy and the AI race. I also worry about it where, if it's easier for large companies to build coal plants or natural gas plants, because they're not going to stop, right?

53:49This isn't all out AI war and in Microsoft and Google and Meta, they're all going to be just buying as much energy as they possibly can. and if the answer because of regulation and because of ease of paperwork is, you know, God forbid, carbon producing, then you got a problem. I think the way the root commentary you're making is the regulators in the US need to take a very bold move here. Wake up regulators. I think I think that's absolutely correct. Everybody, I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that's very important to me. and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love.

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56:43All right, let's go back to our episode. All right, let's go to one of our favorite subjects in yours, Bitcoin News. Do you still, I mean, listen, I remember you and I are on stage at an ex -price event a few months ago and like every other word was like, by Bitcoin, by Bitcoin. We're not giving financial advice, but by Bitcoin. This one, Morgan Stanley tells wealth advisors they can pitch Bitcoin ETFs in a first for a bank, big bank. fascinating, right? I wanted my mom, who is 88, high mom, good to see you. She watches our podcast here. And I said, like, you know, go tell your, your, you know, investment advisor to buy this ETF.

57:27I mean, ETFs were made so that it's super easy to own Bitcoin. And back when we were talking about this, I don't know when it was, when I was talking to her about this eight months ago, it was like, no, we can't, we can't sell you that. And like, huh, that's so strange. Now it's going to be pushed. Thoughts. Totally agree. I give a talk to one of the biggest financial planning groups in the world that has about 10 ,000 financial advisors. I was like, so what's your Bitcoin strategy? They're like, oh, we don't allow our financial advisors to talk about Bitcoin to their clients at all. And the financial advisors are like, are you kidding?

58:06Our clients are asking us about Bitcoin, and we're not allowed to answer your kill on us. Why? Because the regulatory risk they have of the worry that if somebody gives financial advice on Bitcoin and it's not an approved method of any kind by whatever, they face legal exposures, they've shut down that conversation. Again, going back to mindset and regulatory similar to the nuclear conversation, I think doesn't underline driver here that just makes this inexorable, which is the fact that Jeff Booth's observation that he wrote a book called The Price of Tomorrow that you should all go read. And he in the book, he basically shows that over the last 50 years, every dollar increase in global GDP has come from a, with a $4 increase in global debt.

58:50So we're growing the global economy with debt. And you can't, it's structural. You can't pay it back. you can't just write it off. So that that that that's not that does not end well. It does not end well and look at the debt in the US right now we're creating a trillion dollars of debt every hundred days or so. And we're now paying more interest on the US debt than we then the US spends on its military. Okay, that is a pretty ridiculous comment and it's not slowing down there's no mechanism. This is the problem with our democracies. There's no mechanism to look down the line and go, hey, we got to stop doing this.

59:25And so this is a huge issue across parties. And nobody's looking at it. You don't hear it mentioned in the in the in the political debates at all. And this is a massive problem. The escape hatch between that world and the ETFs connecting to Bitcoin now gives a kind of an atomic bomb lifeline and a shelter where people can escape through that into the Bitcoin world, which is why we're also optimistic about Bitcoin. The recent drop by the way for people that are tracking it, those huge off, it turned out Germany sold a massive chunk at the same time that Mt. Gox was paying back a bunch of their folks.

1:00:04Huge amount of Bitcoin got liquidated. This is the best buying opportunity ever. I remember Michael Saylor's comment that you get Bitcoin at the price you deserve. I'm just really a silly. And so, I want to give you credit here, because you're on the stage. I can, I just so in detail, remember you at our Singularity Executive Program, 2012, they're about, you're on stage to the room. You know, I just got an off talking about six Ds or whatever and you step on, you say, Have you heard about this thing called Bitcoin? And you start talking about Bitcoin, I'm like, what the hell is this Bitcoin? You know, we have, it's important to look back at the history here just for a second.

1:00:51When Bitcoin came out in 2009, a lot of people kind of just ignored it, even though they were deeply excited about digital currencies, why? Because they'd been so many attempts in the past that it failed, right? And so they everybody watched for a while, myself included. it. I've got Bitcoin go for five cents of Bitcoin to 50 cents of Bitcoin to five dollars of Bitcoin to 50 dollars of Bitcoin. And how much higher can it possibly go? Yeah and then at 500 dollars of Bitcoin it's a hard emotional choice to make when you knew it was five cents of Bitcoin. That's a really big thing to cross and yeah I remember finally buying a few at that level.

1:01:30The there are two types of people that come up to me from those days. The ones that listen to bot Bitcoin and they're hugely grateful and the ones are like, should I wish I had listened and bot Bitcoin? It's completely binary around that. So I think there's there's, this is just one of those things where you, I think the way Michael Sailor put it was really best, he said, go spend a hundred hours researching Bitcoin and then if you don't like it, come back to me with some salient points and I'll have a conversation. Yeah, so. And nobody does. You know, it's interesting. I look at one of my largest holdings, if not the largest holding outside of real estate, is Bitcoin.

1:02:08And so when it drops from $70 ,000 to $50 ,000, first reaction of the amygdala and the animal brain is holy shit, run and hide. And there's got to be a judo move here for those who are Bitcoin believers to say, oh my God, time to buy. right? And so Sailor is there and you know I think I'm there at this point too. You know I was a great there's a great meme of a cartoon where someone said you know dad was it true that Bitcoin was below $100 ,000 in your day? You know? That's that's wonderful. Yeah I actually look forward with Lee when it drops because I'm thinking oh I could buy some more. I just hope an afspare cash would do that, but I do get this burst of, oh my god, I wish I could buy some more.

1:03:00So the big news here has been a conversation by at least two of the three presidential candidates about the idea of holding Bitcoin and Treasury of the United States, let alone what MicroStrategy is doing is putting Bitcoin and Treasury for its stock, which is played incredibly well. Right? Micro -strategy is one of the top performing stocks in the S &P. So we've talked about this, right? There are six Ds. When you digitize something, it's deceptive and then disruptive. It dematerializes, demonetizes, democratizes. And the phases of Bitcoin, it went from the early entrepreneur to high -end entrepreneurs to institutions and will we see governments?

1:03:53So what's your prediction on when a, we're seeing governments right now, but when the US might do this? I think, I don't know about the US just because the US dollar is so fundamentally important to US hegemony around the world that making a major move in Bitcoin would have a huge impact on the dollar. So maybe stabilizing it. Maybe people have confidence that I think it's one powerful way for the U .S. to deal with its debt is to just hedge it. But if I was the U .S., I'd do it quietly and not talk about it because that and I thought I think is happening right now. I think what's happening is you have to recognize that after micro strategies and after L Salvador took on Bitcoin as its reserve currency, that every CFO in the world of a public company and every sovereign and wealth fund is looking at this going, huh, I need to be thinking that, taking down to account.

1:04:49And for those of us that are bullish on Bitcoin, if 1 % of the fortune 1000, put 1 % of their treasury into Bitcoin, that would make it the same price of gold, which is roughly a million dollars of Bitcoin. So if you do the math, the more the adoption takes place, and note that in 15 years, now people not figure out how we have hacking Bitcoin, right? There's a $60 billion with Bitcoin, and you've got to see, I think there's a lot of people trying to get into that wallet, and nobody's managed it. Yeah, it's the greatest treasure hunt ever. I don't think it's any technology risk, and I'm at 99 .99 percent sure any, but the only question becomes, is there political risk?

1:05:37right? I remember having a conversation with a minister from a foreign nation, I'm dinner with them and say who was? And they're like, your government really wants to shut out Bitcoin. I mean, in terms of this current administration, right? So I've got to learn all of that. I don't talk more about it, but I can answer that very easily. Please. It goes back to, if you shut down Bitcoin, you know, when I send you Bitcoin, I'm sending a string of text and numbers, how you interpret that string of text and numbers is up to you. So it turns out in the US, specifically Bitcoin is protected by First Amendment.

1:06:13There's a strong legal case around this. There's a great anecdote around PGP if you know that story. Right? Should I recount that for folks? Up to you. I mean, it's really important. Please, because I don't want to. Especially if you think of Bitcoin in the US. So pretty good privacy was an email encryption that was invented in the late 90s if I remember it, right? And the US Department defense desperately tried to stop the propagation of PGP into the world because then they wouldn't be able to read emails globally, which of course they wanted to do. And the PGP creators were like, well, everybody should have this.

1:06:48Why should it just be restricted to this? So the DOD put a full restriction saying, I tar regulations, you are absolutely forbidden to export this. So they looked at them and said, okay, what do we do? So what they did was they printed the source code for PGP on the paper. Facts that did the UK, we sent OCR to the code and were able to recreate Bitcoin. Department of Defense took them to court and the court said, first amendment, pal, you can't stop people from extracting the opinion. So there's a really strong precedent on first amendment and then property rights. Anywhere there has property rights, you cannot stop Bitcoin from propagating.

1:07:24So there's some very compelling arguments to especially in the US, but globally, anywhere where you have property rights of any reasonable level, you won't be able to stop it. They're trying to slow it down, on ramps, off ramps, etc. But they're not going to be able to stop it. I just did a great, another podcast with Bill Barheight ahead of Abra, which again, people go and listen to it. That's how where I hold my Bitcoin. Where do you hold self -custodial on a stick and a few other metrics. Does you like these? Do you pucker really hard when you pull out that stick to go and do something with it?

1:08:02Well, it's really what you do with the keywords and how do you secure those? Yeah, because the stick is, is thing. But, you know, this is, this is with a great thing about capitalists, right? Safe custodial models like Apple will appear and people move to a swan is another one that's really good at this. So there'll be a whole bunch of, there's so much economic incentive for helping people with that problem. the equivalent of a digital bank safety deposit box is a really powerful one. Do you want to give your non -financial advice that you gave at X -Prize here? Which was, oh, non -financial advice would be take 10 % of your net worth at the minimum and put it in a Bitcoin and close your eyes for 10 years, if you can.

1:08:46Does it true that you pulled out a mortgage on your house and bought Bitcoin? point. Well, we sold the house and my condition with Lily to selling the house, so I wanted people to put a big chunk of that into Bitcoin. So Bitcoin is almost about the equivalent of my real estate holdings. Yeah. All right. I'm excited for us to keep this conversation in future months. Let's talk about neural link news. Elon has his second implant and and talks about human AI comms. And this is one of the conversations that took place a little bit at the abundance of the past year is about the idea that if AI and humans are going to link up or will AI take off without humans, let's listen to Elon for a moment.

1:09:38The long term aspiration of Newerlink is to improve the AI humans and biosis by increasing the bad with over at the communication. Because even in the most benign scenario of AI, you have to consider that the AI is simply gonna get bored, waiting for you to spit out a few words. I mean, if the AI can communicate at terabits per second and you're communicating at bits per second, it's like 200 tree. Okay, so first of all, if we can communicate at, you know, at kilobits per second or megabits per second and it's communicating at terabits per second and still getting it aboard, do you remember the movie, Herr, I just rewatched it?

1:10:25And there's a point at which the star of the movie is talking to, to his AI and he finally gets the idea that it's not a monogamous relationship. And it goes, how many people are you talking to you right now? And she goes, 8 ,736 or something like that. And I find that fascinating. Well, this is the whole bandwidth issue, right? I think that movie, if you haven't watched the movie, her, HER, please do go watch it. It's probably the best framing we've seen on the realistic outcome of AI. Because probably with tensed always portrayed is the matrix, the terminator, the whatever, and the robot overlords trick over the world.

1:11:12And if you're lucky, your pets, and if we're unlucky, we're food. It always goes that way. And but the reality is much more likely that an AI evolved so quickly past us, they look at us as ants and go, you know, you're a little one liter brain in your head, Vitalik accepted, is not just not interesting enough to talk to, I'm talking to millions of AI's in parallel. take the top. It goes, it just have a nice life. It just, it just, it just, it just, a nice life. Thanks for all the fish. Thanks for all the fish. And I think that's the most likely outcome, which I'm kind of okay with, you know, if that's the progression of life, that's kind of okay.

1:11:47But I think what Elon is doing around this is really, really important. And the, the next conversation around bandwidth is critical. Yeah. I mean, right now we communicate when you and I are speaking, what is it bits per second? Is it for bits per second? BPS. Yeah, no, but it's like is it 40 bits per second? It's like in single digits. I mean, for bits per second. Yeah, it's not a lot. And you think about the megabits and gigabits that we have on our networks. There's no comparison. Yeah, so here we go. Think about this, you're typing on a keyboard, right? I mean, it's literally that's the fastest we can do it.

1:12:27There's not a lot of this per second. And it's shockingly slow. Let's hear Elon about making it faster. Here's going to be gigantic. Because we'll increase the number of electrodes dramatically. We'll improve the signal processing. So, you know, we, even without only roughly, I don't know, 10, 15 % of the electrodes working with with Nolan to our first patient, we were able to get to achieve a bit per second. That's twice the world record. So I think we'll start like vastly exceeding the world record by origin magnitude in the years come. So it's like getting to, I don't know, a hundred bits per second, a thousand, maybe, maybe if you like five years now, it might be at a megabit.

1:13:19But like faster than any human could possibly communicate by typing or speaking. Obviously, if I find that compelling, right, I mean, I want as much as possible. So let me ask you the question here, Selene. They open up neural links to the general public. Are you like, get me one baby as soon as possible? No. No, you're not. No, I'll tell you why. So I go back to the, so I'll tell you why I'm incredibly excited about this. And I'm why I'm like, okay, okay, come on. Let's just get an update from the Shabier Head. They could just go straight in. The USB port on the side of the head is, you know, that's that kind of old dream.

1:14:08I think the reason that it requires physical intervention is a tough one because our phones evolve much faster than any implant would evolve if you put it in, right? So there's that you'd have to have this like deep thing going into your brain, which is fine once it gets to I just don't want to be the first test subject In that in that model, but I didn't say test subject I said it's you know the FDA's approved it. It's commercially available now. I don't get one I would wait a little I'm always weirdly I'm a lady doctor and hack new technologies I'm always two two phones behind everybody else just because I'm I use it so materially that I can't afford to be at the bleeding edge and have some stuff and work or lose things, etc.

1:14:48So that's just me personally. But the I see why I'm excited and why I'm eh on this. I'm incredibly excited at the general conversation of increasing output of the human brain. That's a really powerful framing. And I think it's I love the first principle thinking that Elon brings to the table on any of these conversations that brings everybody's thinking up to that level. And then you have to think in that way. And the fact that he's without realizing it, coaching tens of millions of entrepreneurs around the world to think in this way because he does is incredibly exciting for the future. Here's where I get a little bit more if you think about it.

1:15:26He kind of makes this comment in this clip that we put out X amount of, we're roughly a bit per second is our output if you average it across today. But you know, we just talked about why in person is so important because when you're in person face to face with somebody, there's a ton more happening than just my communication patterns back and forth. There's the pharaoh mones we're putting out. There's our body language. There's visual cues. There's all sorts of verbal tonality that goes along. There's a ton of bandwidth occurring between two people on a conversation, much, much more than just the pure bits per second being output.

1:16:05But that information is being converted to neuronal signals. And your brain is only able to process a small number. So as we're having this conversation, there's traffic noise going on outside, there's air conditioning comes on, and we don't notice that because I'm focused on the wisdom that Celine Missmale is speaking to me about right now. Yes. And so there's no reason why, in fact, in AI can't actually pay attention to all of it. Do pre -processing and share with me the most important information because I'm ignoring 99 .9 % of the information coming to me right now. And I have an attention focus on what I think is important and it may not actually be important.

1:16:57Or there may be other important information that I'm missing. My point is that we have all sorts of mechanisms to do that for us in many cases. So I'll give you a small example. You and I both follow a few thousand people on Twitter or X. And then those folks we found curate the information out on the web and news stories and breaking tech news in a powerful way. And that's a pre -processing and filters down for it. So we do a pretty good job of that. And AI would do an incrementally better job, but not a game changing, better job at that. If I'm sitting in front of a person, all the signals that I get are useful about the world, but it's not, you know, the fact that in AI, I might be able to look at the signals of 10 ,000 people in a room in a big conference and get some sense of that, but it's not probably going to affect my decision making on a moment by moment basis, right?

1:17:52Where I think, let me flip it around I'm excited. If you can increase the bandwidth levels and then have brains interfacing more powerfully, the potential, I think it'll reshape our brains unbelievably powerfully is a mechanism for, we need a, if I had to wave a wand and fix a human being, human beings globally is a species, I would basically find a way of cutting out the amygdala, right? You talk about this. It's constantly scanning for bad news and danger and it takes over the rest of the brain and floods it with cortisol every time it perceives that. It's a completely useless device for today's world because the amount of time we're in actual physical danger is seconds out of a year.

1:18:33And so, let me give you a broad deal of that. You do so much potential to that. If you have the ability to interact with high bandwidth, we could actually then emphasize the Neo Cortex and of more processing power at a rational level and diminish the impact of the amygdala. So, I agree with you and we can go broad on that. The amygdala is just your negativity bias where you pay more attention, 10 times more attention, negative news and positive news. But we have all these other cognitive biases, is familiarity bias. There is a recency bias. All of these things, it's like, we suffer from positivity bias.

1:19:13We do, we do. Though I think that's unbiased, but that's a different story. But imagine you're having AI that's able to tell you, listen, that's not actually true. You have this piece of information from six months ago, which countervails that, and let me bring that forward. So in other words, human bias alert, and we can call it bullshit alert, but human bias alert, I think AI could play an incredibly good role because the reason we have cognitive biases is because the human brain cannot process all the information being thrown at it. So we take these shortcuts. Yeah. Okay. So a visual is coming to me.

1:19:57Okay. Okay. Imagine I have a headset display and I'm walking around the world doing whatever and I'm buying a bar of chocolate and an AI is scanning my brain and constantly bringing out these are the biases you're operating under right now. the cognitive biases that are forcing and just having that feedback loop of knowing what biases are played at any given point would be incredibly powerful and give me a feedback loop because this is where I think things become really exciting as the recursive feedback loop when you know what you're thinking why you're thinking something that allows you to reach shape how you're thinking.

1:20:33This is the whole basis behind. But we're limited. And LP and. And so limited right now by this, you know, you know, two and a half kilogram, you know, unit above 14 watts of power. I just, I just can't wait to plug in and expand beyond that, but you know, that's me. I'm gonna throw one more little thing in this. Okay. Okay. You know, just, you know, I've done a lot of mindfulness meditation, really very passionate. Are you sitting? You just be aware of what's happening in your body. Just imagine that I could be fully aware of all the activity in every cell in my hands right now. And I could be fully cognizant, the excitement and energy around every cell in your body, which has its own mainly many sub -universals.

1:21:15Or you truly instills a billion chemical reactions per second. Just that is a profound thought in terms of could I just contemplate that more profoundly? Forget interfaces elsewhere, etc., etc. So there's unbelievable. Without psychedelic drugs. They give us a shortcut to what's possible and I think there's the ability to contemplate a broader with broader bandwidth, the unbelievable reality we live in is amazing. All right, let's go to Elon again on on patience outperforming gamers. We'll feel pretty confident that I think maybe within the next year or two that someone with a neural link implant will be able to outperform a pro gamer.

1:22:03because the reaction time would be faster. You know, what's fascinating, I remember when I did a long form conversation with Elon, after we announced the $100 million Musk carbon prize, I was asking them about the first neural link patient, which was CHIMP. It was CHIMP NZ called Pager, and it was playing Pong, and I said, did you play against And he said, yes. And he said, who won? And I think, Pedro won, but I think Elon may have said he did. I don't know. Well, but it's fascinating that we're going to get there. The Olympics are looking at esports as an Olympic game. And we're going to question is, will you be able to be enhanced when you're playing those games?

1:22:58That will be fascinating. I mean, this is a long trend, right? Which I think, you know, we have really good evidence today that the best leadership skills in the world are taught if you play World of Workcraft. So, do you like your son play World of Workcraft? Not yet, because he's, I think he's too young. He probably plays that stuff with that, he plays half of that stuff with that telling me anyway. But I think the opportunity to really develop a powerful skill, deep human skills using this capability is massive. When you talk about AI's beating the pro gamers, et cetera, that's great. But we've seen that in chess, and we know the outcome, what happens.

1:23:41It just changes the game a little bit. The difference here is, again, directly from the Neo Cortex. And a lot of these are Twitch games. A lot of these are reaction time games. And so in the reaction time is minimized because you're going straight input output. But I mean, it's, you know, I don't know is that cheating? It is to some extent it's just doing things better and differently. Gamers spend a ton of money buying a like a mouse that is connected directly into the motherboard so that they have that few micro seconds advantage. For me, it's for a lot of this. But the general concept of interacting with the brain and having a broad event with the process Let's do signal processing is incredible.

1:24:28Here's our last slide here. And I think this is the numbers folks take away. So prior to NURLINK, the world record for a human using a device is somewhere on 4 .2 to 4 .6 bits per second. Nolan is at 8 .5. And we heard Elon in a previous video talk about going to Megabit. When I think about the notion that there's nothing more important for a company or for a nation than its cumulative intelligence. Right? The ability of a company to perform its mission is a function of per capita intelligence, I think. Maybe you disagree with that. I disagree with that. Okay. Tell me where you come from. I'm going to bring out my EXO bias here.

1:25:21A huge amount has to do with how it's organized, right? If you have all of the most powerful in your own, that's a huge amount of organized identical, but one group is more intelligent than the other. Yeah, of course. That's going to do better. But the other organization always beats bandwidth and brain power. But both, we've given a choice to take both here. You can't do both, but I think there's so much mileage to be gained by just organizing better and not being top -down command -controlled, slow -dissuer making. That's what limits intelligence. For example, the basic intelligence in any institution, take the nuclear energy discussion we were having earlier.

1:26:04That limitation is not a function of intelligence. It's a function of the ability to execute and recognize we need a different framework for doing something and operating from a different model and a different framework. Yeah, but it's the changing of models that's hard. Yeah, and we just made my point, right? Which is right, you know, intelligence and regulators, different conversation, different page. Different motivations. It's a motivational alignment problem more than anything else. Did you see the movie Oppenheimer? If you did, did you know that besides building the atomic bomb at Los Alamos National Labs that they spent billions on biodefense weapons, the ability to accurately detect viruses and microbes by reading their RNA.

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1:28:10You'll find it at viome .com slash Peter. That's about robotic news next. Are we going to jump into that? All right, let's go to the program. All right. So, um, so we're seeing a lot, uh, in the world. If I think about the robotics right now, we talked about this, uh, again, at the, at the Biden Summit, there are like 30 well -funded humanoid robot companies on the planet. Optimus and Figure are Tesla, their robots called Optimus and Figure, Brett Edcock's company, this release Figure II will talk about that in a minute. The top two in the US, and there's a whole bunch in China because China needs robots.

1:28:54Let's listen to a quick note from Elon on the numbers, the size of the market, and then we'll talk about this in more detail. The optimist number is like, they're really just, they're like so mind blowing that you're like, is this real? But because I actually think the market for human or robots is in excess of 10 billion units, like more than the number of humans, because each one is one and then there'll be others that are involved in industry and stuff. So if they do sell, if you're $20 ,000, that's $212 million. This is just an insane number. That's why I like, I wonder, what does money even mean at that point, you know?

1:29:35Oh, it's money even mean at that point. So, so, so, Seleme, the numbers here to reflect on, and I got these exact same numbers from Brett Adcock and I did a podcast with him recently, $20 ,000 a unit, that's what the price sort of converges on and that's like $100 a month if you're going to lease it and you know, $10 billion of them in the world. Well, I think I again have, I like going to the extremes and just considering both sides of this. I think at one level it's incredibly exciting. The best framing and metaphor of robots comes from the AI conversation with EMA3. When you have a bunch of, if you're the head chef and you have a bunch of sous chefs organizing everything before you, you become way more creative, you execute way faster.

1:30:31Because I can, right now, if I had a sous chef AI in the kitchen, and I wanted to make a really complicated Indian recipe, like I spent a huge amount of time gathering all the freaking ingredients, Just that would be a huge game changer in terms of my ability to be a great chef, right? So I think this is where robots are able to do amazing things over time. But I think the entire economics number has become irrelevant just because the change in productivity such a game changer. I mean, you know, numbers in terms of GDP or something in the match. What's economics economics is so broken, right? I mean, GDP is a function of the number of people working and the amount of technology, and the amount of energy they have access to and all those things.

1:31:20And all those things are infinitely slow. Well, it's worse than it's actually terrible because it doesn't take account deflation. So if I, we spend half a million dollars per breast cancer patient in the US on average, right? If you have the ability to detect wax cancer early and save all those lives, GDP actually goes down. So that's not a great, GDP is a terrible metronome for success of the human race in the future. It's just the best one we've come up with that's easily measurable for the future. So this is an important point where technology becomes deflationary and we have to navigate that for the future.

1:31:56But that's again a whole other conversation. I'm going to play this in the background as we're talking about. This is Figure 2 from a company called Figure AI. I went and visited his plant on the podcast with Brett. He shows us a little bit inside. It's a beautiful robot. I actually saw designs for Figure 3 as well, which take this yet to another level of beauty. And I don't know, I think that we're going to see these every place. And so, you know, we've had the argument about you said, why do they have to look at humans? And I think they're going to look like humans because that's the world we live in.

1:32:44And they are multi -purpose. And you know what, my conversation with Brett, who, you know, he just raised like $700 million dollars from open AI and Microsoft and Nvidia and Jeff Bezos and incredibly you know what makes this possible is the multimodal AI where you're going to just talk to robots and tell them to go do things for you. He made a point, let me make one another thing. He made a point that I think is really important and I would love your reflection on this. The point that Brett made was listen as we head towards AGI or digital superintelligence, we need robots. Otherwise, these AIs are going to be asking us to do their bidding.

1:33:31And that's going to be a pretty depressing future. Okay. So very valid point. I still sit on the cautious and pessimistic side on this going back to the autonomous driving mode. I'll give you one other triangulation on that, which is the Rumba vacuum cleaner robot. People, you know, everybody are really excited about those and they're terrible because you have to move everything for you for the robot. And now you're doing the work of the robot, which is exactly the point that you just made, right? Everything you do is servicing so the robot can do, and you spend more time rearranging the room so the robot can do its thing than if you use a vacuum in the place.

1:34:10Yeah, but in the first place. But these human -like robots will be up to you. Yeah. Maybe the vacuum cleaner. But I think that those small nuances will take a lot longer to work in there than we think. Where I get really excited about this, by the way, is the high -mind capability that these robots, that I think will be very exciting. Yeah. I'm going to skip the Nvidia robot slide other than to say, you know, every company out there is in some way, shape, or form looking at working with robotics. OpenAI has got other projects, Google's got its projects, and we're going to see robots. I just tweeted that, damn it, I posted, not tweeted, I posted.

1:34:58Give me a damn verb, be a long please. I posted that CES this year. We're going to see a ton of robots, but everything is going to be talking to you. right, everything is going to be generative AI enabled. It can see you and talk to you, and that's going to be just, you know, sort of improvement to your at CES this year. I think it would be hugely amazing. I'm, there's not often I kind of feel tempted to go to the chaos and jungle that is CES, but this might be a year to go. Yeah. I really, we're good to our last subject here, which is biotech and other cool stuff. This was an article that came out and there's a particular genetic variation that was found that increased lifespan in mice and by 25 percent.

1:35:53And I think what makes this interesting is it's actually in human trials as well. Well, I think what I want to point out by this slide is that we're continuing to find things that are extending human lifespan or extending mammalian lifespan and that we're just at the beginning of this journey. It's still early games here. How long do you want to live? How long do we want to live? of, you know, I'm, I, there's a big metaphysical conversation that we don't want to get into here about living forever, et cetera, et cetera. I think the best framing is having a great health span, which you talk about a lot, right, is that's a really important one because having a vibrant life as opposed to just a long life is really, really a key success factor.

1:36:49I think the world is so goddamn amazing. I would like to be around for a while long enough to see this massive transition that we're going through, which, you know, I say this often, I think the next 30 years is going to drive the next several centuries of human humanity. I think it's and I think we navigate the Mad Max versus Star Trek. Sure. That we have is going to be really, really interesting and critical. And it's just we, you know, goes back to your comment about we must be in a simulation because it's just you just to goddamn interesting today to be right. I mean, we're at the 99th level of a game.

1:37:24I mean, to look at it that way, right? It's like it would be the we are about to evolve into something new. It's like that line from 2001 Space Odyssey, which I can't remember. But it's like, the future is just unbelievably awe -inspiring. It's the singularity. By the way, can you ask you a quick question? Ray keeps on holding to the singularity date of 2045. I mean, that seems like really, if we've got digital super intelligence by 2030, don't you think it's going to move faster than 2045, you know, what's up? So I'm right now plowing through the singularity is nearer. Yeah, I just finished it.

1:38:07And what I'm struck by as far as I've got into it is a the unbelievable pressience of his commentary from 2030, 40, 50 years ago. It just blows your mind. Who is this man? I mean, he can't be human to be making these kinds of comments. That's one observation. The second observation is, I notice he changes what the singularity is to talk about more as a metaphor than a real thing, which I think is the right way of framing it. It's a great metaphor for the fact that we just can't predict past a certain event horizon. And let's just live with the fact that we can't predict it. But in that case, we have we have serial singularities.

1:38:49Oh, I always we always talked about this at Singularity University where there's non -stop small S's happening all the time. The iPhone arriving was a singularity, right? Bitcoin was singular. You couldn't predict. You couldn't predict Uber. You could predict the asteroid impacts. I call it Gutenberg moments. There's black swans. There's just an increasing frequency of those happening at a ridiculous level that's going to just change everything we do and how we do it going forward. and the ability to absorb that and act on it and then make sense of it is the biggest intelligence quotient we're going to need.

1:39:28We're going to have to have over the next decade and two. Yeah, I agreed, but I mean, I think of a, a, I singularity coming where I can't predict what's coming after. I think that's already there. In my OpenExo world, we have a sub -community about 600 folks focused just on AI. And they meet weekly just to try and process what happened this week in AI and try and make sense of it. I mean, it's just, I would say that we've hit the singularity already in AI. The pace of change is faster than we can even talk about it or recognize it and make sense of it. Yeah, I get it. All right, let's go on. I think one of our last slides here, life bio is a company that Davidson Claire had started and you know, David made history when he showed that epigenetic group programming using three out of the four young monocop factors was able to bring back the earlier state of of youth of cells, in particular, it was in the optic nerve.

1:40:44This is Dr. Sharon. I'm not going to Rosenweague Lipson, who's the Chief Science Officer for Life Bio and for David's Company. It's quick. Take a quick listen here. What we're doing is we're building on the work of Dr. David Sinclair, where he identified that you only need three of the Ammonocca factors, off four socks, two and K -Lev four, which allows you to not take all the way back to a stem cell state, but rather to make a more youthful version of itself. So we do it in our version of it is an ER100. So ER100 is a two -vector system. Okay, so we have two vectors and it allows us to use a TET on docs -indusible system.

1:41:29Short form means we can control it, hoping to be in the clinic in 2025. So the point here, which is pretty amazing, is that in the clinic means for humans and we're using epigenetic, you know, age reversal in humans. In particular, I think they're going to be doing it for a number of eye related diseases and blindness reversal, but they're in primates right now and it's working. and I just want people to get excited about the future in terms of, you know, age, slowing, stopping, perhaps reversing aging. And God knows a lot of applications. I think the broader implications, you know, what do we do with pension plans and unemployment benefits, you know, all that stuff is kind of a structural change is just coming from life extension or unbelievable.

1:42:27But I'm really, really excited about this. I know you spend a huge amount of your time now on the longevity stuff and you're kind of doing an unbelievable job of popularizing it and getting people used to the conversation, right? I think that's the key part. This is, you want to talk about singularities. Breaking through the aging stuff is something that we've not really been able to do as a human species that in any really meaningful way for our entire four billion year history of Earth. And now all of a sudden we're hitting this point where we can completely change the game of biology. It's amazing.

1:43:02All right. Last subject here for today, life on Mars. So we saw some data come back from NASA's Perseverance Rover, which is cruising around getting data. What it did was it found a particular rock that in that rock were three elements that were critical. First, it found water in the rock. Second, it found organic compounds that were part of life and precursors. And then it found evidence for chemical energy sources in the rock. And when you have those three things together, typically that spells life, I just saw this morning in article that they also found liquid water on the surface of Mars.

1:43:49So, you know, I'm excited about two, three things. Number one, the notion that I think there is life on Mars today. It's microbial, it's subsurface, it's in the permafrost, in the water, and just finding life on another planet just changes everything. The second thing is going to be... It does. Go ahead. I say the second thing is going to be interesting is there is a theory that because Mars cooled first because it's farther from the Sun That life evolved on Mars first and there's an exchange of material between Mars and Earth as asteroids Strike the Martian surface the ejecta reaches escape velocity and so it's going to be interesting if we find life on Mars and compare it to life on Earth Did it originate on Mars first?

1:44:43And then there's a whole pan spermia model, which is life, you know, evolved elsewhere in the universe and it's just floating through space and it's seeded planet as it intersects. All right, now over to your wisdom. Well, I mean, there's no question in my mind of the pan spermia model being the real one, because we found tardigrades can survive in space with this. There's absolutely no reason that a life form should be able to survive in space if it derision, I didn't know anything yet here we have them. So this is pretty clear that life is evolved and many, many, many, many places. It goes to the whole Drake equation, which we don't need to get into right now.

1:45:21But if you want to check it out, but the reality of life being pervasive around the earth, it don't even then question is, how do we dance with Fermi paradox, which I think we have a reasonably good response to the paradox is being there must be life all over the goddamn universe why haven't we seen alien way the hell are they and the best model out the answer I've heard is the transcendention hypothesis by John smart you get to virtual technical reality technology and you can simulate anything so you go inward rather than trying to go outward is just too hard physically to go at what I do so that reality that this is not surprising I'm just thankful that we've actually found it so that we can shut down all the religious idiots.

1:46:07Sorry, we haven't just to be clear that article doesn't say we found the precursors for it. I know, but the one of the big questions in everybody, I think is, where is the primary you'll lose that we think we've seen and here we have it on another planet. And by the way, we're filling in the gaps of how life will go to start. Titan and Ganymede, Europa, you know, the moons around Jupiter and Saturn are likely to have even in more advanced life. You know, what's fun is we're alive during this period of time, right? Starship, you know, Starship Flight 5 is going to be going up soon. Can't wait for us to talk about that in our next podcast conversation.

1:46:43And it is going to bring people, you know, 100 people to the surface of Moon and Mars. And take us out to that or planets. It's going to be the, you know, the, whatever you want to call it, what was the trend, what was the most important? Like the 707 of aircraft, right? And that became the KC 135 tankers and really a first transatlantic, really wide body. Jet, it's going to allow us to go there and we're going to find out. And it's - I'm going to do a final plug here for X -Prize because notice that you're, you know, you created X -Prize because you noticed that Lindbergh crossed the Atlantic and all the teams competing developed cancelary technologies that could create a commercial aviation industry.

1:47:28Right? And boom, you put a honeypot down and for the space world, and now we have a close to a trillion dollar space industry. And we're doing that nonstop across the board. So the future is so, so exciting. It is. And I didn't mention in the beginning, Seleme. Seleme is also a member of our board of directors of the express foundation. He's Godfather to my two kids. I'm going to add your your additional, anyway, I love you so much buddy. And this was a fun conversation. I really, really enjoyed it. It was super important. And I want to debate hotly some of the other topics we'll do that next time.

1:48:01Yeah. And if you're enjoying these conversations with Suleiman myself, please subscribe. Let us know. I'd like to do this, you know, once a month where Suleiman and I get together and argue and disagree on all of these things. Suleiman, where do people find you and your companies. At Selimismail is on x -twitter and openingxo .com. Yeah, all right buddy. All right, you're off on vacation. I'm off to Indonesia and India, family stuff, and then back in a couple of weeks. You must be a God when you land in India. I mean, you're Indian and I'm sure. I try and hide actually because I'm scared that once people see that they'll steal my passport and I won't be able to get out.

1:48:42to keep you here. Alright, be well, take care.