AI Panel Discussion W/ Emad Mostaque, Ray Kurzweil, Mo Gawdat & Tristan Harris | EP #96

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1:11This is not a question of technology, this is a question of human fear. The fear here is that the other party is going to beat me. There's so many ways that we can make AI a part of the solution, but we have to look at all the ways that have been misincentivized so far. This is a moment where we have to remove the shackles of technology to be very open and honest. I think we need to use technology in our benefit, but not let it use us. Let me kick it off here. Imad, how do you feel about Sentient? Do you feel that these models are becoming sentient or conscious? I don't think so, yeah. I think there's still like weights and ASCII files that you are like a C, if you put something in and something else comes out.

2:00However, as you combine them with humans working on them and in agent -based things, I think you'll see new forms of emergent intelligence and potentially sentience from that. Mo, how about you? Do you imagine we're going to see sentience? defines sentience. I mean, if you think of us as a sentient, then that's a question. If you think a tree is sentient, that's a different question. If you think the universe is sentient, that's a different question. And I mean, how much difference are we, you know, to ask a code and, you know, we're DNA code in a very interesting way. So I define it as human level of sentience.

2:42And then I'm gonna go to Annie and I'm gonna go to Selim next. Yes. What makes us human is that we are, we have free will. They have free will. What makes us human is that we can procreate. They can procreate what makes us human is that we have emotions. and they have emotions. If you define emotions as fear is an understanding that a moment in the future is a little less safe than a moment right now, then they have the same logic. It's a very complex question, but I will openly say it's an irrelevant question, because if they simulate sentience, then that's the way we should treat them. Interesting.

3:19Annie, and I'm also looking forward to this top question in the slide. Annie, what you got? Hey everyone, great, it's great to see you back here in person. The question that I have, we just came back from the Beneficial AGI conference in Panama and we were talking about humanity and where the fear is coming from. Do you believe, how can more of humanity get involved in the creation of super intelligence, super AGI one and two, do you believe this super intelligence, super AGI truly belongs to the world and if so, should companies and governments own it or should it really belong to humanity? That's a huge question.

4:05Mentor of mine said with AI, it's like which entity would you trust to be a trillion times more powerful than it is? Would you trust a corporation to be a trillion times more powerful? Would you trust a government to be a trillion times more powerful? And then what does it mean for something to be a trillion times more powerful and then have some kind of democratic accountability to the will of the people? In our presentation, we tried to focus on, we all want those super intelligent benefits. And one of the challenges in the way that AI's are currently trained is the benefits are directly connected to the risks right now.

4:46We want the donuts, we don't want the diabetes. The thing that gets you the perfect AI biology tutor for every middle schooler is inseparable from the thing that knows how to tell you about how to make biological weapons. If you want the first, you can't get the other one. The thing that makes cool AI art is inseparable from also knowing how to make child sexual abuse material and removing out the controls. And so I think that's one of the key challenges is how do we get clear about what we don't wants so that we can steer towards the world that we do and then have the controls in place as best as we can.

5:20And the problem is how do you control a technology that runs on laptops and smartphones and is moving in a ubiquitous decentralized training direction? I want to go to Slydo next, then Selim and then Zoom. Is there any discussion happening around mixing spirituality with AI? Can AI connect with God? Anybody want to take that on? So, as a former theology student, yes, that's right. So I think it's interesting because what this AI does is we take hundreds of thousands of gigabytes of images or trillions of words and compress it down to a few gigabytes. And that can't be compression of data, it's compression of context.

5:59So when looking at Islamic theology, for example, the 99 names of Al -Azant al -Alaq, like fasting, is the representation of the divine aspects of somadiate or freedom from want. When you can press this technology down, you can say in Dali3, make it happier and understand a concept of happiness from being trained on the human corpus of happiness. So when I see this technology, what I see is certain aspects of the divine through the context window shifting of that. Because what we're trying to do with lost spirituality is get beyond where we are right now and understand reflections of something a bit beyond.

6:35And that's what a latent space is for me. It is the concept of happiness, the concept to creativity, the concept of fulfillment, and these technologies can help us appreciate the world better. Appreciate other stories and tell the stories of each other, just like it says. You know, we made you diverse so you could better understand each other. Over the years, I've experimented with many intermittent fasting programs. The truth is, I've given up on intermittent fasting as I've seen no real benefit when it comes to longevity. But this changed when I discovered something called ProLon's 5 -Day Fasting Nutrition Program.

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7:51Selim. Yeah, a clarification question. A member of our faculty. For each of you, which is a beef that I've had for a while, we worry about AI getting smarter than human beings, right? And the question I have is what do we mean by smarter? Because we have the IQ test with measures the speed of thought processing and the ability to match concepts across frameworks. We don't measure emotional intelligence, spatial intelligence, the eastern concept of presence and awareness. So what do you mean by smarter is my big question that I've not had a good answer to. What's smarter for you, Ray? Well, I'm holding this because I believe almost everybody here has one and it definitely makes it smarter.

8:32We know all kinds of things that we didn't know even five years ago. I generally ask people when I speak to them, how many people have their smartphone? Almost everybody says yes. Five years ago it was maybe 50, 50, 10 years ago, almost nobody had it. And it's a very small period of time. We've enhanced our intelligence by carrying the best we have of machine intelligence and it's really merging with us and also machine intelligence is learning from us. So it's really part of who we are. Out source. Stacy, I just want to quick follow comment. The best comment I think we've ever heard about this comes from you Ray when we were talking about consciousness and you said language is a very thin pipe to discuss topics is rich of this.

9:27Thank you for that comment. Thank you, Selim. Stacey. So when we were looking at the floor caudrance earlier and down at the bottom of two areas where we have the villains and all the different things that could happen there, is there a way we can leverage AI to mitigate those things from happening. Obviously we talked about child abuse materials, but all of the different things that we're happy with here. Can we leverage AI to help us with that? Totally. That's the invitation that we want to make to the whole world as this is our urgent challenge. When the framers of the Constitution were thinking about how do we prevent untrustworthy centralized power and governance, they were trying to do that with old mechanisms as just law and institutions.

10:14Now, Larry Lesseg wrote in his book, Code is Law, and we now need to bring new technological answers in addition to sociological answers, to how do we check on trust with the power? We have things like zero -knowledge proofs. We can also use AI, for example, to find consensus opinions and democracies, rather than social media, which is sorting for what is a cultural fault line of inflammation and then incentivizing people to tweet, to drive up outrage and anger, to divide society on every fault line. You could have AI that tries to find the synthesis of different perspectives and rank for the unlikely synthesis.

10:47When do clusters of users who typically tweet different things and are angry about different things? When is there actually something that they tend to agree on that's a shared value and what if we were sorting by unlikely consensus and sorting by division and outrage? There's so many ways that we can make AI a part of the solution but we have to look at all the ways that's been misincentivized so far. I love this question on Slido that will go to Anusha. It says here, what are the key skills that us teenagers, I'm guessing it's a team table here can learn to excel in the age of AI. I think one of the most important questions.

11:21So, teens, listen up to the answer. Who wants to do IMAD or MO? You want to? So, we've got teenagers here. What should they be doing? I think that, you know, you've seen the code models come out. You've seen the art models come out, but I believe that they can build content, they can build boilerplate, they can't don't do art, yet they can't do actual proper programming. A large part of what you have is the leadership organization and systems thinking is the most important thing you can have because again you must think what if I had that new continent with a hundred billion talented people? What will I do to make my processes better, to make the world better, to make my life and other elements better?

12:05I think that's the best mental model to think about what you should have and those skills are the things you have problem solving skills. And you should also use it every single day. I think one of the final questions and all of the things was, what should we do? Everybody in all your organizations should use one of these Technologies at least half an hour a week and report back what they find. And you'll find some incredible stuff. How many folks here are using Gemini or chat GPD at least half an hour a week? Right? I mean, my comment to my team is I wanted open during every board meeting, during every staff meeting, I wanted as a tab open on my machine all the time.

12:37There are so many times where I stop myself from doing something, oh my God, that's just going to be so much better for me to do in Gemini, right? And it literally is like holy shit moments where I would have wasted half an hour and hour of my time. It's boom, it's done. What teenagers should do is actually answer these questions. How can we relieve ourselves of these risks? and they'll be just as good as adults. It's not like you need to be a certain age to be able to answer these questions. Great point, Ray. Everybody, I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that's very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love.

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15:32I'm sorry the CEO of the X prize here with us today Thank you I agree that AI is inevitable and it's moving very fast also like what you know most said about changes in society and a shift where you know as parents we become responsible parents however this is not something that's going to happen anytime soon as we can see the state of our world I would even question human intelligence as being intelligent so with that given and the fact that these These models are using resources of our planet, energy and water resources, even more than human beings. And if we give more power, more control, there will be a resource contention which causes the wars that we fight as human beings.

16:23And now we're adding very powerful machines to fight this wars with us or against us. How can we create a pathway where we slow down? We can't stop it, but we can slow it down and Give ourselves time to figure out the answers to this question because one thing I heard today is that all of us were saying we don't know And we don't know how to sub it But is there a way is taxation of all the companies and things that go into Powering these models on energy and water a way to slow it down So we can actually find time to find answers to our questions. Mo, can this be slowed down? Is there a velocity knob and on -off switch?

17:09No, no, no is my answer unfortunately. Once again, as I mentioned in the first inevitable, this is not a question of technology, this is a question of human fear. The most active motivator humans can ever engage with is fear. And the fear here is that the other party is going to beat me. And, you know, the second biggest motivator in our world is greed. And there is a trillion dollar pie to be gained from those who can create the next big thing. And so, I would probably say it's not a wise thing to hope for a slowdown. I think the right thing to do is to embrace that intelligence in itself is a good thing.

17:56and just directed in the right direction. I mean, we saw this with Google, right? I mean, Google had the tech. They, you know, the whole, the first ethos of this was, don't put it out on the worldwide web, and don't give it permission to code itself, right? If you don't want this to go, you know, to dispatch to the right. And unfortunately, their hand got forced, and then you heard Sergei recently say, put it out too early. There's a lot of pressures there. I would say I think the one of the solutions to this is actually open because our releasing of the image model meant that dozens of people didn't need to train their own and we optimized it for the edge so it wouldn't require these massive compute requirements.

18:40Because you have to send them to university once and then you can put them everywhere. So built open models so other people don't have to and then optimize them for the edge so it doesn't use up all the resources rather than gigantic GPUs. I think that can mitigate it somehow. Nice. We go to Karim on Zoom. Karim, where are you and what's your question? Yes, hi. I'm Karim from Casablanca, Morocco. Well, my question is to each and any one of you first thank you for all your your presentation. They were awesome and now I like the fact that some of you are not pretty pretty close or agree with each other.

19:20My question is as human being, how should we handle our identity knowing that we have AI today and quantum computing coming in a very fast pace, which will also completely cope with the curve that we showed us today? How should we position ourselves in front of this tremendous intelligence. We're going to hear about that a little bit later. And tomorrow, yes, if you thought things were moving fast, hold on, we're about to hit warp speed. Who wants to take that one? Questions of human identity in the face of all this are super hard. A friend of ours says that, AI is like the 24th century crashing down on the 21st century.

20:17And if you think about that much change happening that quickly, like imagine if 20th century or 21st century technology was crashing down on 16th century governance, right? The king assembles all of his advisors and send in the knights to do something about Wi -Fi and video games and like, what are you going to do? And you know, I think the thing that is universal to bridge on the question that was asked before about slowing it down is a lot of the people that you know we talked to people in the AI safety and AI risk community quite a bit and what everyone seems to be able to agree on is that a lot more comfortable if this change was happening instead over two years but over 20 years.

20:55And Jeff Bezos said that society does adapt to new technology but it needs time for its immune system to come and I think one thing to think about as a principle is how can the immune system of a society have greater compute processing power than the rate of evolution of the mutation of threats. And right now, the mutation of threats has greater compute behind it than the immune system of our society. So we need to, I think, correct for those asymmetries. The question of identity is a very dangerous question, and I'm being philosophical here, but we've just ended millennia of gender identity discrimination if you want.

21:34And the idea of defining an identity necessarily leads us to believe that one identity is either superior or inferior to the other. And that by definition might mean in the long term that we try to treat AI differently even if it has rights. I think the idea here is to try and welcome AI, as I always say, as our artificially intelligent infants. I think this is a very big stretch at the moment, but more and more. I mean, you're working the morning today, Peter, while you're talking to all of those bots, it's just the dose level, the very entry level of how they will fit in our society. So we might as well welcome them, rather than identify them and discriminate against them.

22:21It's going to be merged with us. We already carry around a lot of digital intelligence today. And that's actually how this will be manifest, merging it with ourselves. Did you know that your microbiome is composed of trillions of bacteria, viruses, and microbes, and that they play a critical role in your health? Research has increasingly shown that microbiomes impact not just digestion, but a wide range of health conditions, including digestive disorders from IBS to Crohn's disease. Metabolic disorders will be considered a type 2 diabetes. Automimmune disease like rheumatoid arthritis and multiple sclerosis.

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24:28Again, that's Viam .com slash Peter. Paul, and then we're going to go to the Slido question. Hello, my name is Paul Abril. I'm a programmer. I've been a member since July and I want to first thank Peter for organizing. This is very unique. Unique community, very tough walking and talking to like many people. My two questions are for one question for Mo and one question for E -Mod. question for you, Maul, is, uh, do you agree with Lank, Yandek Hoon's, Lank Hoon's idea that LLMs can't take us to AGI because of the reason that he said, well, according to him LM's lack planning and lack imagination and memory, what are your thoughts on that?

25:37I think LM's are just one part of the memory, like type 1 versus type 2 thinking, and we have systems of planning and coordination and others. And again, just like organizations, we have people of different specialist types from the strategic people to the tactical people. So any age I will be a composite system as opposed to an individual one. So LM's themselves can't take a CGI, okay? one part of it. Okay. And this is a question for, I mean we shouldn't call them LLM's because they already deal with it far more than language, pictures, cures for disease, lots of things that we don't consider language are already being dealt with.

26:23So, they should call them sneak in a couple more questions. What one last question. OK, make it quick. OK, I'll make it quick. So this question for Mo. I know that you're emphasized that with all of this, the most important thing is human connection. And the internet is great for making human connections. But when all of the things were all flooded with bots and fakes, how can we maintain In the advantage of the internet, yet still have actual genuine connections? I think the answer is very straightforward. Leave the internet and go out, honestly. It seems to me very, very clear, Net. Yeah, this is a moment where we have to remove the shackles of technology to be very open and unhonest.

27:23I think we need to use technology in our benefit, but not let it use us. I'm going to combine these two questions up here. So the first one is how do I invest in AI, given that EMOD is right with a three -year future visibility? Now, it's how do you invest when it's moving so damn fast? What companies are building the infrastructure? And then another question EMOD that you might speak to is the effect of AI is having on our education system, because you're extremely passionate about reinventing our education system as I mean, I think the bot museum that Steve Brown is building as you've seen those incredible bots of Aristotle and it's amazing what he's done, right?

28:05So if I want to learn about ancient Greece, I can have a conversation with Aristotle or Socrates or Plato and not have to read it, it's amazing in that regard. Yimad, what do you think on those two questions? Yes, I think he used the mental model of where would 100 ,000 graduates benefit this business or other things. Later on this week I'm launching a democratized AI fund, an angelist rolling fund that's zero -madgerant fees, zero -performance fees, to invest in the best entrepreneurs in this space. Anyone can kind of participate in it. I've given 20 million super -compute hours over the last few years to people like that.