Apple’s AI Crisis & ChatGPT’s World Domination w/ Dave Blundin & Salim Ismail | EP #162

26:57I can't believe it. And so this Sesame website got so overloaded with people playing with it, that it was up to millions of concurrent users and then you couldn't get in. I think it's back to you. It's settled down now. You can play with it if you want to check it out at Sesame .com. Here's the next article from TechCrunch. It said, Earth's AI algorithms found critical minerals in places everyone else ignored. This is the story of abundance. This is the key point I was trying to make in the book now, God, 13 years ago, that everything things there, we just haven't found it or got it in a usable form yet.

27:33So, AI discovers copper, gold, silver, and in regions overlooked in Australia, combining historical, geological data and custom drilling. I mean, we've talked about this salim a number of times, haven't we? We have. I mean, the data point I used to use before was in the last 20 years of a 40 % of all oil gas deposits have been discovered using digital searching new sensors. So therefore that's just going to go to other areas. This was a matter of time. It's fantastic to see it. I think it's such a great example of democratization and demonetization. Right hits right to the core of your abundance thesis that technology delivers a domain, any domain from scarcity to abundance.

28:18Yeah. Do you know anything about the sensors they used to discover this? Because the story was new to me. I don't, but I'll tell you, there's a great story I wrote about in, it was probably in bold. It was, this is the gold corp. McEwen John. Yeah, yeah, no, it's, yeah, it's Rob McEwen. He owned a large gold mine. And he gathered all of his engineers and geologists together one day and he said, show me where to find the next six million ounces of gold. And they basically said, huh, I have no idea. And he goes, you're fired, right? And then what he did was something very unusual. He took all of his geological data, which for a mining company that's usually kept in a safe.

29:09And he, he didn't, the web wasn't up then. He put it on DVDs and he announced a gold corp mining competition. I forget how much it was. I think it was a half a million dollars. It was half a million dollars for whoever could find the next six million. Yeah, and so anybody who wanted could write to him and he sent them a CD -ROM of all their mining data, like all the secret stuff, right? And what was amazing, he had hundreds of teams enter and the winning team, there were two teams at one One was in I think Australia and I think the other one was in Russia and They never visited the mine and they found the next Six million ounces of gold by looking at the data, you know the answers in the data Chris market cap went from 50 million to three billion At a cost of a half a million just by breaking conventions It's such an incredible story.

30:07And the way they did it was they saw patterns in the data. This is, oh, we might nickel. And when we see that pattern, it typically indicates that deposit over here. And so they use the pattern recognition you might have for nickel or some of these other metals. And they applied it to gold. And the gold people always had their own way and never looked at the nickel data. And so that's why cross mapping, they thought, this is where we think you'll find a bunch. And they found it. Yeah, that's great. I remember the original question was, how big should I have the go -processing facility and his people were saying, we don't know, I'm just golders, isn't there?

30:39And he's like, what am I paying you for? Yeah, Rob is now. It's way behind me. Rob's a trustee or important member of the X Prize, one of our benefactors. So it's been fun to get to know him and his wife Cheryl. Yeah, Dave, you were saying. So this reminds me a lot of the original thesis of the Avatar X Prize where the whole goal was, you don't have to go places to do things. Because why would you go places? You've got high -diff cameras anywhere. And then in this particular case, the data is going to be not visual anyway. It's going to be some kind of out of I -Band sensor. So what's the advantage of going to Australia to look?

31:18And it makes no sense to say where you are, get the data to come to you. So it's a good early use case that proves the point. I should also note for our beloved listeners that both Dave and Saleem are members of my board directors, the X Prize, which is fun. I get to see you want to quarter those meetings. I mean, next on time you. Okay, hang on. Just get them to inspire teams to work on the hardest problems in the world. Is about as fun a job as you could ever get. So this is an awesome thing. It is, it really. Yeah. All right, so, God I love this next title here. Apple's top executive calls AI crisis ugly and embarrassing.

32:02So, oh my God, it's about time guys. I mean, listen, I tweeted this a dozen times. Siri sucks so bad. It's like, it really pisses me off. Oh, God. I'm just saying. It's like, stand up for Apple because I'm not going to. No, no, no. It's a standard big company innovator's dilemma. If you're a big company, it just takes forever to roll out features, right? And you have to go through a control framework, and systems testing, integration testing, privacy testing. My favorite story around this is a Yahoo, when I was running their incubator, it typically took Yahoo, but eight months to roll out a new feature.

32:38Because you'd code the feature and then you had all this testing, brand testing, all this other stuff. 100 teams would look at it and send it back to you. And then Zuckerberg comes along and says to his developers, If you think your features are ready, go take it live on the site. Here you go. You better be right because it'll cost you your job if you take down the site. The developers are so excited. They were rolling out a feature a week and totally blew past Yahoo, My Space and everybody else. This is the difficulty at Apple, which is the control framework of being careful and cautious in a big company.

33:09Totally takes out the ability. If you're on the consumer internet, the two characteristics, you better have or speed in risk. Well, I feel like I'm living a living I'm living a repeat movie here and I hate to say it But I mean I loved my original Mac, you know, I'm sure you did you to Peter and then after Steve Jobs got booted It got so bad that you just literally had to move over to a PC and it was towards her or or a son at the time But and you hated every minute of it, but you just couldn't live on the Mac anymore such a piece of and then the Newton came out and it's like, the whole company was basically bankrupt.

33:47Then Steve Jobs comes back and then the next wave of Max, that were Linux based, which is unbelievable, like out of nowhere. And it's the cult of personality. This is the thing that Elon Musk has mastered now. You just have to be a cool leader online that people wanna work for to get the critical talent that you need to stay on the cutting edge. And so you need a through line, you need a through line of a vision. You know, one of the things I learned years ago is the best movies in the world have a single director and a single writer and they have a clear vision and they execute on it. The movies that are crap are the ones that have gone through 15 revisions and there's third director.

34:29Committees. And it's a mess, right? So if anything, jobs was the orchestra conductor that had a very clear vision on this. The problem is in Apple's defense. Yeah. In Apple's defense, this is about as hard a thing as a big company could ever face is when you integrate some cutting edge new thing when you don't know it's how long it's going to be around, even if it might only be a week before it's out of date by the time you've implemented it. So the speed of the development of AI's Dave referenced earlier, it makes it unbelievably hard as to when do you place your chips? Well, that's the biggest pathetic, but putting that aside, this is what makes America work and what makes it great is the constant turnover of talent because at the end of the day, startups have no chance whatsoever against huge companies like Apple, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, except for the fact that this happens.

35:24And so that engine of turnover is actually very, very healthy. I hate to see the dysfunction in my devices, but it does keep the start -ups moving, and it's just the nature of talent. Can we talk about your worst iPhone -series moments? Mine that really pisses me off is like a text, Kristen, and her name is right there. That's who I'm texting. You can spell the name. It's K -R -I -S -T -E -N, and it will spell her name three different ways in the course of the text. It's like, no, no, it's right there. And it spells my name, P -I -T -E -R. It's like, honestly, I mean, what, I mean, consistently spells it with an eye in there.

36:06It's like, stop it. Um, I don't know. Can comment as I use an Android. Ah, okay. I, I, I, well, that's my wife. I mean, I'm saying, Epping Apple, like, 10 times a day, she hears it. It just a litany of things. But the thing is, you know, I'm not price sensitive, I'm ultra time sensitive and I need things to work And and that used to be Apple's brand, right? You know, it's it's and now it's you know, we make money on every song We make money on every movie download. We got like okay, but what's the core mission guys? I mean just make it the out of the box experience. That's perfect Make it beautiful make it work.

36:45Yeah. Yeah. Yeah for sure All right Here's another fun story from Fox News, Texas private schools use a new AI tutor. Rockets the top 2 % in the country. And I actually know this story. Price McKinsey is who runs this school. Is a friend. She's been a member of my abundance 360 membership. And she's built this school in the Texas ecosystem, serving a lot of... A lot of the families out of Tesla and SpaceX. And, you know, the joining story here, which I think is fascinating, is we just saw that Beijing made a proclamation that in September of 2025, right, this coming fall, primary and secondary schools will baseline AI as part of their educational program.

37:42And then Estonia did the same. And I'm pissed that we still think of AI as shackles for our kids or cheating for our kids versus a jet pack. So thoughts here. I mean, Dave, you have three amazing kids. You have been mentoring them in AI for amazing kids. Yeah, mentoring them in AI. Talk about this. Would you? Yeah. Yeah, you know, I don't know if you remember, but Mira will check one of our partners here wrote an entire book with GPT2, which is incredible when you think about it. Nine said, took it to Davos in 2019 and showed all the world leaders on stage. I wrote an entire book using AI, get ready for what's coming.

38:26She might as well have finished the presentation by saying, buy and video stock and try and get invested in open AI if you can't. All the world leaders were like, I don't care. I don't know what you just said. I'm very confused. Just like, oh my God, talk about being asleep at the wheel. But the kids are all over it. Now I was really, you know, kind of because of what we do. I had all four of my kids go through MIT's, you know, Success 191, Introduction to Deep Learning, which anyone can take online. So I had them all go through it early. So, you know, my wife is the best wife ever, unbelievably supportive of all of this.

39:04I'm just happy to lend the kids to any of these AI missions. But now when you talk to the kids, they're like, yeah, it's crystal clear that education is completely going to go to AI. What I can ask the AI today, even with today's technology, any of my classes, anything that the teacher says is already in there, and it's much more efficient for me to talk to AI to get the same lesson. So they're going through the motions, trying to get through it as quickly as they can, knowing well, they're they're going to switch over to all time or full time AI based learning from here forward. So, Liam, this plus the previous, this plus the previous slide about Apple, except it reminds me of and the 21 year old discussion reminds me of my favorite commentary here from Douglas Adams who wrote, Hitchhuckers, Gone to the Galaxy.

39:51And he said, anything the world when you're born, we call that normal. Anything that's invented when you're young, that's called a career and anything I've And that's after your 35 years old is just bad. It's just bad for the world. It's a great glimpse of human nature to see stuff and just not get it unless you're below that age where it's native to you. I'll be really interested to see how this plays out because the data is going to be crystal clear that this is a better way to learn. The kids are going to be clamoring for it. Meanwhile, we have all these teachers unions. And I've been talking to the governor here in Massachusetts.

40:23We have a phenomenal governor, Morah Eliech, who's brilliant. and it's going to be a challenge for her though, because it's one of the biggest unions. And then I'll have all those two jobs. I'm the immune system. Yeah, so you're son and my son, my two sons, they're all 13, they're middle school. How do you think about this? Well, what I'm seeing is the school allows them to use a chat GPT, but theoretically not for homework. What I see him doing is looking up a math problem, them looking it up on AI and coming back, looking it up over, coming back. And frankly, he watches how the AI solves it and he learns from it, and then he does it.

41:04And how much more different from real life, I mean, that is the way in which we learn. But you watch a master at it and we mimic it. And you get the concepts in your head and then you do, you ground it by repetition. I think that's just a standard pattern. It's just that, you know, if you go back in history, learning and education was one to You had your tutor, you were an apprentice to a master, you had your guru, if you're in India. And then we turned into a one to many where you had one teacher and many students, right? And then with the internet, we turned it again many to many where every one, many students can have many teachers.

41:40But now we have we've blown open the supply side and the teaching can be any one AI could teach the blow the socks How far most any teacher in the world. And that is going to change the game. There's going to be some countries and some educational systems that take advantage of that. And we're going to go from push -based education where you can try and get kids into a classroom when you're trying to cram algebra into them, into pull -based learning systems where you take on a project, you pick an MTP, and you pull down the learning you need for the tasks you're trying to do. And I think as we make that transition, it's just really painful for the legacy systems.

42:13Yeah, I think the future one of the major issues. Yeah, I'm going to be a major issue. I mean, I went into my kids in new school because I took them out of the old school. I really had to get them into a school that was much more progressive and learning and philosophy and and I think leadership skills. And the realization I've had is if you allow your kids to use AI in middle school to solve middle school problems, it's meaningless. But you could give your middle school kids college problems and Have them use AI and learn to use these tools to do extraordinary things that they never thought they could do it drives confidence It drives you know sort of up leveling of their ambitions I think that's really what we need to get to Dave.

43:01Sorry. What are you gonna say? Well, I mean there was a period of time where every one at MIT Did to learn to use a slide roll and you know obviously became Absolutely stupid at some point where we're in that moment It's just happening way too quickly for people to adapt. But I can't tell you how many middle school and high school students that never would have written code are now vibe coding with lovable or replete or cursor and loving it. And vibe coding is just flat out fun. But you're creating the exact same stuff that a Python developer or a C developer would have done last year. And that is just great for the kids.

43:38But when you look at the underlying curriculum that they have to go through in middle school and high school, like that curriculum hasn't been updated since Isaac Newton. The world hasn't been, seriously, that is the exact calculus. The chemistry, yeah, we added a little bit of quantum to it, but it's basically the same chemistry, same biology. But human knowledge has grown, what, a billion X? Is this the right thing to learn? just because there's an SAT or an AP test for it, that's why we're gonna learn this, that's just nutty. And you'll never use it again. And you'll never, you know, all the, I just looked at a friend of mine when my cousin's sons were taking his SATs and I flipped open the book to look at, you know, his ACTs and SATs and I'm looking at the questions or asking, I was like, this is crazy.

44:28When, you know, I knew this stuff and I would never use it again for the rest of my life. Well, no, me, what you what you do need to know has grown so much in that same time, Frank, you don't have time to cram useless stuff into your brain in today's day and age. And so you're doing a, the education process is doing this massive disservice by occupying all the time. Yes. Great. So, Lee. Yeah. You have that realization of what you're not going to use this stuff when you leave. Unfortunately, that hit me in the middle of university because we I went through this co -op program and I would be going out to work every four months.

45:04And I did a couple of work terms that control data, helping design some large -scale chip boards, etc. And I come back to school and then listening to some lecture where I, I ordered something, is ordering a light, a star at X number of light years of radius. And what's the orbital path? And you're like, I am never going to use this. Please let me get out of it. And I barely got my degree. Oh, I got to see it. Lord help us. It was about 13 years ago I had my two kids, my two boys, and I remember at that moment in time I made a decision to double down on my health. Without question, I wanted to see their kids, their grandkids, and really, you know, during this extraordinary time where the space frontier and AI and crypto is all exploding, it was like the most exciting time ever to be alive.

45:52And I made a decision to double down on my health. And I've done that in three key areas. The first is going every year for a found upload. You know, found is one of the most advanced diagnostics in therapeutics companies. I go there, upload myself, digitize myself about 200 gigabytes of data that AI system is able to look at, to catch disease at inception. You know, look for any cardiovascular and cancer, neurodegenerative disease and metabolic disease. These things are all going on all the time and you can prevent them if you can find them at inception. So super important. So fountain is one of my keys.

46:32I make it available to the CEOs of all my companies, my family members, because you know, I help this in you wealth. But beyond that, we are a collection of 40 trillion human cells and another 100 trillion bacterial cells, fungi, a virus. And we don't understand how that impacts us. And so I use a company in a product called Viome. And Viome has a technology called Metatranscriptomics. It was actually developed in New Mexico, at the same place where the nuclear bomb was developed as a biodefense weapon. And their technology is able to help you understand what's going on in your body to understand and which bacteria are producing which proteins, and as a consequence of that, what foods are your super foods that are best food to eat?

47:25Or what food should you avoid? What's going on in your oral microbiome? So I use their testing to understand my foods, understand my medicines, understand my supplements, and viome really helps me understand from a biological and data standpoint, what's best for me? And then finally, feeling good, being intelligent, moving well is critical, but looking good. When you look yourself in the mirror, saying, I feel great about life is so important. And so a product I use every day twice a day is called one skin, developed by four incredible PhD women that found this 10 amino acid peptide that's able to zap senile cells in your skin and really help you stay youthful in your look and appearance.

48:15So for me, these are three technologies I love and I use all the time. I'll have my team link to those in the show notes down below. Please check them out. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed that now back to the episode. So let me, let's turn the subject to coding because I've seen a number of people out there, EMAID on the abundance stage said this number years ago. you know in five years it can be no more coders and so learning to code traditionally right people are saying is now dead don't teach your kids to code. Dave what do you think about that? Yeah it's amazing how I'm not a zoe the edeliker actually I think I think this is a common thing in your in your network feeders that if everyone going back to Ray Kurzweil said exactly what they said five or 10 years later, they would be Jensen Huang.

49:07But because they're such great forward thinkers, there was a head of the curve and that was exactly right. And it's all happening, you know, faster than anyone would have anticipated. And we're in a transition point right now where if you want to build industrial strength software, you still need to code. But you know, it's going to be game over within, you know, certainly within 2025. And then everything will move to vibe coding. But the good bet right now is to build whatever comes easily through vibe coding. Don't even look at the code. If it doesn't do what you want it to do, just wait. Because as soon as you get in there and try and debug it, one of our companies blitzie here writes 3 million lines of code in a single night.

49:47So 3 million lines of code, that would be $300 million worth of R &D that would have taken you three years if you had $300 million lying around. And you got it in a single night. And then if you say, well, it doesn't do exactly what I wanted to do, let me start debugging it. How did you keep that? Three million lines of code. You did. So what you do instead is you just keep talking to it and fix the modules you can through voice and then just wait a couple months and the rest will get fixed too. And that's where we are. That is insane. All right. Our next story is dominance of Gemini. So Gemini 2 .5 Pro is the most powerful model yet and free.

50:24So I love this. First of all, I love Google. I've had a long love affair with Google just because I knew Larry and Sergey and Eric early on and they were big supporters. The ex -price, I'm super biased about it in that regard. And I still go back to the fact that Google really led the charge AI to a huge degree with their papers on attention and on the early work that they did. and they chose not to release their AI code early because they felt like it wasn't, society wasn't ready for it, but when OpenAI released ChatGPT and the world was like, oh, OpenAI, it forced them to take action. We've had that conversation before, Selim.

51:13So I like the fact that they're still up there and leading the charge. Thought, Selim, how do you feel about all this? I think this is what Dave talked about earlier in the leapfrogging. All these models just can step past each other in different ways. I was kind of blown away by how good 2 .5 was. It's really, really impressive. Not all these different domains as well. So really, really happy to see it. And it gives, you know, the Larry and Sergey understand came back to kind of drive the initiatives here. It really talks. Yeah, it talks. It gives you the sense of why a founder led initiative is such an important thing.

51:51You bring that energy of that original vision and the drive and the passion, and then everybody is motivated. So I think it's a bunch of different commentaries here, but I thought the model was fantastic. It's funny. I've got Jim and I, 2 .5 and Theropic, Chad G .P .T. and Garak open always on my Chrome tabs. And I'm just, you know, it's interesting what I use for what. Anyway, Dave, what are you thinking here? Well, first of all, I gotta say, one of the best things that ever happened in the Nobel Prize world is Denis Osabis got a Nobel Prize and then Jeffrey Inton who I've loved since 1988, I guess, 1986, because he invented back propagation, but they had to really stretch the definitions of the Nobel Prizes to give two guys AI, the high guys prizes and chemistry and physics, but it was the right two recipients.

52:47So Dennis is sitting on the... Huge props to the Nobel Committee for doing this. That took a big leap and I really, really respect them for stepping out of their comforts on the field. They have a real challenge. They have a real challenge out of their comforts on. They're going to have a challenge going forward, right? because almost every single major discovery is going to come on the back of AI algorithms. Well, that's why it's so brilliant that they cracked open the door here because, you know, they're just early on recognizing that that's the way it is, but these innovations are still huge benefits for mankind.

53:20So the fact that it came from an AI person and not from somebody who toiled away in a chemistry lab for many years is that's totally fine because they just, They just like it's a lame you're dead right it was incredibly gutsy of them to give out those two prizes There's I have fun, you know, I was just in Helsinki I've a lot of fun with the Nordics because they always complain about it's hard to compete with German engineering and And I'm like okay, give me one internet innovation that has come from Germany ever and there's never one and yeah You look at Scandinavian you've got PHP Skype You name it came from came from that and one of my you just read the two that I know I don't know any others There's a bunch of them.

54:02Oh, okay Spotify, you know, you just the list just goes on but the the my one of my favorite stories is I was doing a session with the Copa the in Copenhagen at Neil Borershaus where they did the Copenhagen interpretation And I was talking to the head of the Carlsburg Foundation. He gave me this amazing story. In the 1830s, the master brewer at Carlsburg Brewery invented the yeast that didn't get you sick. For that up to then when you drank beer, you got sick. And so the lawyer got all excited saying, wow, patent this for like a tiny money by licensing this yeast by the people. And the brewer is super upset because he was a beer fan.

54:41So you made a hundred and forty copies of this yeast and sent it out to the hundred and forty major breweries around the world without telling the lawyers. It was a first great example of open source. He opened source the beer and ten years later the amount of beer drunk in the world had risen ten ex. Wow. It's just a great example. Have you checked out humanity's last exam? It's the hardest. I was about to ask you. Tell us about it because I mean that is, I mean that feels like the the measuring stick we need to be paying attention to. Oh my God. So it's so, Gemini's up close to about 20 % on that test, which is nutty.

55:20You ought to splice in a couple of example questions from that test. You could never answer even a single one of them. There's the hardest questions in every field of human endeavor, including math and physics and everything else. But just the domain knowledge to understand what the question's asking you is off the charts for any normal human being. and this model is at close to 20%. Does it solve the ability for men and women to understand each other's thoughts? Yeah, no, that's out of range. I want to ask you what you think of Lama, though Lama 4 will be up before too long. So to me, the Gemini 2 .5 release is just leap -progging, but it's exactly what you'd expect.

56:01Every time there's a release from any of the big guys, it leap -progs everyone else for a little while. And so I think that what's interesting to me is that the team at Google has to be very, very cautious with safety and security and privacy in there that new paper out and everything. The team at OpenAI is fundamentally Microsoft's bet in addition to being OpenAI and they'll leapfrog this, I'm sure. But then Mark Zuckerberg to me is, I got to tell you a story actually, Mark Zuckerberg is the sort of founder, leader still in control, driving AI with open source. and we just invested in a Harvard team yesterday and signed the deal in Mark Zuckerberg's dorm room.

56:42It's got some great pictures of it. And they're trying to walk right on their footsteps, but it was super fun. But what do you guys think, do you think Mark will then keep up with these guys? Or not? Well, I think the great aspect here is the fact that open source will, we have a section in the book in the EXO book called Open Beats Closed. And we've seen over time throughout history that open models, beat closed models. And we're at that point now because there's just so many more eyes and attention that can go to it and evolve it very quickly. I'm super excited about what we're going to see in Lama 4.

57:17And so Elon is the other sort of founder, originator guy in the race. You think he'll go like you get to pick on one pick one. Everyone has their specific advantages. So you got four choices and maybe there are others too. Maybe deep sea goes a fifth choice But which one would you bet on I tend to bet on Groc I Just think he's got an unlimited checkbook and he's got a massive amount of data coming from X and from Tesla and from humanoid robots Yeah Selene I think bet for what purpose do you mean betting on building the best next model or lasting over time? Good question. How about just the humanities last exam benchmark who has a score two years from today?

58:06Oh, I think it's gonna be an unknown entrant. I think something's gonna come out of the blue. You heard it here for the folks. Okay, because we've seen it throughout history. You know, we thought nobody was ever gonna be Yahoo and then Google came along, and blew that past. Facebook came along, blew past that. Opening outcomes longer, nowhere, and blows past everybody else. So I think that's the pattern that we've seen throughout history. You'd be hard pressed to bet against the unknown entrant. Well, I think Elon was very, very early to recognize that who gets the chips is a huge factor in that question.

58:45And so he put himself in a position that where he has a lot of control over, or first of all, what gets manufactured at TSMC and Intel? A lot of control over that, and then who gets the supply? He had a lot of control over that, so that is a pretty important and he gets access to the core -faker. Get access to transformers and electricity and the entire supply chain for getting intelligence out the door.

59:09I miss the idea of testing a human IQ on this. We were measuring human IQ, and then we had GPT -03, or O1 with 120. We haven't seen any UIQ data coming out. I'm looking forward to that. All right, here's another one. Open AI and Macrosoft, now back and Thropics, Master Control Program. Who wants to take this on? Dave, do you want to give us a quick one or one on MCP? Well, so, in Thropic, so MCP is basically, you know how with ChatGPT, you can do almost anything. You ask it to do something on your laptop and it says, well, I can't control your laptop, but here's some code code that would do it.

59:50Like, well, what do I do with that? Well, you know, open the terminal session, paste it, like, I'm not doing that. So, you know, they can go with operator. The problem with operator is they can like, delete everything on your laptop. And so, Dari Omade is actually the god of this. So he is an incredible forward thinker in terms of how to get productivity while still having safety and security. And so somewhere in there, you said, well, here, MCP, this is gonna be an open standard. make it free to the world, but it's a way that the AI can access controls like your laptop, but also information that maybe other agents or maybe just stuff out on the internet that helps the AI serve your purpose.

1:00:33And it's a simple protocol that enables all this. And it's really pretty brilliant. I think it might be very similar to HTML, where HTML was not super complicated, but it just flat out worked and we're still using it today. and here we all have the internet, what a game changer. So MCP is very much like that kind of breakthrough in terms of having the AI empowered to help you without wrecking everything. But I love the fact that both OpenAI and Microsoft have backed that. It's part of the sort of open ethos. All right, let's go to our next item here. Just a quick shout out if you go back to that.

1:01:12Yeah, sure. Our storypeeder is what I loved was this was based on OAuth, which was a protocol for sharing identity across web sites. And something that people should look into is the Internet identity workshop where all the folks working on identity systems at eBay, y 'all will get together and they go to kind of go, how do we handle cross site identity and etc. and OAuth was a protocol that emerged out of that. So this is literally the community practitioners getting together to create a protocol. And what I love to see with the MCP is you're seeing the same thing happening again is the practitioners and the space are getting together to say how do we do this in an inappropriate and responsible way and some really really happy to see that.

1:01:52Yeah, not 100 % convinced that the other guys adopting it is them being altruistic and saying yeah, great invent. I think it might be more of a hey, let's make sure we're close to this. It's still like a great extent. Yeah, there's definitely that. Yeah. It's the 40th anniversary of the IIW workshop, the Internet Identity Workshop, which is an unconference. It's been going for 20 years where all these things. It's amazing to see these folks getting together and trying to figure out the block and tackle problems of interoperability at that level. So nice. Just to shut up for them. All right. Speaking about the importance of safety, Google releases a paper on AGI safety by 2030.

1:02:39And what could possibly go wrong? So I don't know if you had a chance to see the paper I took a look at it. And it talks about a wide range of areas. I was with Eric Schmidt down in Miami at the FII Miami Summit. I had a conversation that was super critical. and he said, you know, the biggest concern isn't the upside. Of course, it's the downside. And, you know, the biggest concern isn't US versus China. There is concerns there. We can get to that if you want. But it's everybody against the dystopian user. It's the person who uses AI to cause havoc. You know, the number one example they use is a bio weapon that gets produced because, in fact, that technology's gone easier and easier.

1:03:33And Eric said we need something like a three mile island disaster, something that makes global news, but doesn't actually hurt anybody. And scares everybody. So, so that we adopt, you know, reasonable guidelines. That's funny, I interviewed Sam Aldman at MIT, an IA two years ago next week actually. And we talked about, well, he said proactively, actually the worst thing that could happen in AI is if we get into some kind of a hypercompetitive all -out race, you know maybe an arms race with a foreign nation or something like that where nobody feels like we have the ability to slow down and think we have to move full speed because otherwise somebody else is going to bypass us.

1:04:19But that would be terrible, that would be awful, but thankfully not happening right now and we can think our time and think about it. And sure, I think of that recording actually because like, oh here we are. Two years later, yeah. That is the case right now. Everybody is all out. A billion dollars a day being spent in AI is the latest estimate again. And it's unconstrained. There's no velocity knob. It's all to 11 and no on off switch. So I have a 10 -general question please. topic that I'd like to ask Dave. I think from not about this paper because I think the approach taken by the paper is perfectly thoughtful and so on.

1:04:58I struggle hugely when how do you clearly define AGI? And Dave, do you have or have you seen a decent definition of AGI? Well, I mean, I've seen some actually really good definitions that are crystal clear, but then everyone disagrees whether that's AGI or not. So, you know, where if you said take all the information up till about 1910 and then try and have an artificial Einstein discover relativity given that data. If it can do that, then you know you're over the threshold. That's a great benchmark. Let's code it up. Then someone will say, well, that's not a, it doesn't have an empathy. Like, okay, well, that's perfectly legit as a complaint.

1:05:42But, you know, it's really clear that the AGI was originally defined that everybody agreed it's the Turing test for like 50 years, right? Yeah, and so we blew that up. I think it's crazy to change the definition right at the finish line. Oh my God. The Turing test, by classically defined, was passed a long time ago and no one noticed and no one cared. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's over there. We're exactly there. Yeah. So from here forward, Richard Socher has really great thinking about the different types of intelligence going forward. the 10 pathways that he's carved out, he promised us that book he's supposed to write on, where that is.

1:06:17But it's really well thought out, you know, thought process. So from here forward, it's not about like, like, do we really care whether it's equal to a human when it's doing superhuman protein folding, superhuman cell simulations? And do we really want to make an AI that acts like a human anyway? Isn't that the disaster scenario? Can we just make it not, not self -aware, of it's super capable in all these areas that help humanity. And it's a very doable thing. Why don't we just do that and then everyone will be happy? Yeah. OK. I'm with you. I'm going to move off the subject of AI for a moment and move to one of my favorite, which is flying cars and share a short video.

1:07:00So the title here, and this is from the South China Morning Post, China clears first flying taxis for commercial take -off. So here we go. Let's take a look here. Those of you who have been with me for a while have probably seen a variation of this vehicle. It looks like Ehang from China, one of the very first to be produced. I remember with Martin Rothblatt purchased like a hundred of these vehicles for use in delivering lungs in the United States. And then she went and backed beta in the US. So, Selim, you and I have chatted about flying cars a lot. I mean, for F6, why can't we have these yesterday?

1:07:42It's so much easier to fly a car than to drive a car autonomously. We've got Sony less constraints. I make a controversial comment that Kobe Bryant would be alive today if we'd have cleared autonomous flying cars 20 years ago or 10 years ago. The technology is there. It's regulatory. It's infrastructure because you have to have dedicated gates at airports, you have to have special fueling mechanisms, all that stuff, licensing, you know, takes a long time to unfortunately just for human beings to get all that stuff into place. This is where an authoritative government like China can get it done quickly because they can just look through it and say make it happen, and etc.

1:08:21I think it's a game changer. I can't wait for it to happen. I think we should have done it ages ago. Just airport commutes are just a disaster. Yeah, you have what we wouldn't line to get to JFK. Oh, there was a 30 minute, it's like LAX on a bad day, right? It's like 30 minute delay at 1 a .m. in the morning. Some, some they were doing something and God knows it. Like harvest stuff forever getting coming to pick. Yeah, it's just doesn't make any sense that we can't break through that stupid barrier. At least for airport runs, you know, prices not a issue. People pay a fortune just. Well, there's a dozen well -funded EV talks.

1:08:58electrical journal. I know. Take off my mind. I know. If I was the Trump administration and you got that one thing done, you would get so much like visual publicity from people flying around. They're flying cars coming. Jensen's have arrived. Yeah, sure. I mean, they are coming. You know, we've got archery aviation and joby, both are probably the two biggest ones in the United States. And the plan right now, as far as I know, is when the Olympics are coming in a few years here in to have them up and operational. The problem is, I mean, the old adage, the FAA is not happy until you're not happy.

1:09:33Right? Okay. So you know that that was anybody figure out. And so we had, you know, we have drone delivery as well, which is finally broken through. We have, you know, wing, which is part of alphabet and zip line. And they're making, you know, millions of deliveries now where drones are flying, basically autonomously, so funny. I don't know if you remember hearing the CEO of wing talking about this, that these little drones flying now their operational in Dallas and the local other cities, they have to get a part 135 license. A part 135 is, part 121 is united and jet blue. It's large airplanes carrying passengers.

1:10:25135 is smaller aircraft carrying passengers. And they have to abide by the part 135 rules, which means your airplane has to have a seat belt on it and needs to have all of the paperwork on it. And of course, you got these little drones. And we need to go. Yeah. Well, it's something we were talking about, I don't know, maybe six months ago. I don't know if you acted on it. but Island real estate is dirt cheap, either in the middle of a lake or off the coast. And that's because it's hard to get to, but this is gonna be like the best. And also, we were ahead of the curve talking about the land around nuclear power plants.

1:11:04And lo and behold, it's gone way up in value. But one of the smartest things you could do right now is start a little fun to buy Island real estate in anticipation of the arrival. We have a fully developed business plan, and developed by one of my community members for exactly that. We did a quick study. It turns out if you could just circle Toronto Airport in Chicago Airport with a 200 -mile radius, there are something like 10 ,000 islands and lakes. It's a ridiculous number. And you could go around the world where there's a decent rule of law and just snap these up. There's no way they're going down in value.

1:11:38And now you get this. And then you drop on them, just put a drone landing pad on each one and just wait. Well, I just took on the office on this topic and everybody says, you know what China can win some races? That's okay. This is one we don't need to win. We can just import these things. You said we need to get the regulatory thing figured out very quickly. But as long as we were competitive in the core AI race, there's a good one to concede because there's so far ahead of us anyway. And just to improve. I would pay the tariffs for that. All right. So here's another race that's going on between the US and China and It's the humanoid robot race and of course this year I had Brett Adcock the CEO of figure on stage with me at the abundance summit and Their recent release was that the figure two robot can now walk like a human Let's take a look at this at this video here So this is figure one which is walking like an old cripple man.

1:12:38And here's figure two coming along. So it still looks a little bit awkward to me. Doesn't it? I mean, but it's getting better. But I'll tell you what's amazing. Kudos to Brett and figure. They have figure three that's coming out shortly. They got figure four. They're iterating a new robot design like every 12 to 18 months, it's extraordinary. But I used to be a super fan of the Atlas robot back when it was being powered by hydraulics. And now it's gone electric and it's amazing. So let's take a look at the Atlas robot. This video really freaks me out, check this out. Look at Atlas running like that, right?

1:13:31And I mean, it's much more human crawling.

1:13:39I mean, very human -like maneuvers, right? And see what it does next. That's so cool. Some tumbling. I mean, imagine this in the Olympics, in gymnastics Olympics. It's a little unfair. Yeah, I know why it should be fun. these right? Right? Head stands.

1:14:05Oh wow. Okay, now we're gonna that's the only show you're off. Actually, I mean, but check that cartwheels. I mean, honestly, it looks like this, like look at the beginning here again, it's running. Check this out this running gate. I mean, amazing, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Um, so you know my beef, why the hell only two legs? Yeah, because it'll be Or six. And it would be a second cent to be one out of 100. So much more flexibility. I think we spend too much time trying to make it human. So we can. Yes. I'll get off. Forget this argument. You've made the last three conversations we've had. Putting aside.

1:14:43It that was, you know, at least running was super human like. You know, imagine that running after you down the street. You know, Great. Go back to the thing that I'm, that does blow my mind about this is once you teach one of these a skill, all million other humanoid robots have that exact same capability. And that sure ability is something we've not achieved in human beings. And I think this is where humanoid robots have unbelievable applicability. Well, I also think that, you know, the reason we're doing humanoid robots is not because, you know, Elon says, well, look, the world is designed for human shapes.

1:15:21Blah, blah, blah, that's not true. So what's true is that this inspires a whole generation to work on robotics. And once you have the supply chain of components and also the software, you can make any form factor in no time after that. So why start with a humanoid and not with a spider or something? Well, if you start with something creepy, then you just turned off a whole generation. You start with the video we just looked at. You've inspired a generation and that's more important at this moment. That's what I think they recognize. Yeah, Brad, that's the kind of wisdom that cuts through all of the crap we talk about sometimes Dave, thank you for that.

1:15:56That's great comment. Yeah, I suppose I throw compliments to me. All right, here's a couple. I do appreciate it. A couple of final stories here. Feeling the future, a new wearable tech simulates realistic touch. I want to say, new wearable tech stimulates a realistic touch. So this is a fruit of the moon is coming out with this new tech. Okay, well that'll sell. Yeah, so break through in haptic tech stimulates pressure, twisting, stretching under full motion actuators. So I mean, listen, this is the, we saw this in Ready Player One. This is reality following science fiction. This is the emergence or the, you know, are diving into the virtual world.

1:16:48Comments? The porn industry is going to have a field there with us, obviously. The historically always been breakthrough innovators in some of this. I think this is where that whole example of putting away kitchen dishes and then you simulating. This becomes really interesting for the avatar use case. If you can do haptic sensing and the robots on Mars and you're on Earth or your off -site off planet, it becomes just some incredible things you could do there. So lots of applications. Yeah, I don't know about, I mean, I totally agree conceptually, but then when we did the Avatar Exprise, the latency kills you.

1:17:29When you start talking about something on the moon or something on Mars, I mean, the Mars, you're talking about minutes. You know what just happened, Dave, we talked about this at the abundance summit. Quantum communications has made instantaneous comms possible. So it's, I mean, that blew me away. So all of a sudden, you know, distance doesn't matter. You have instantaneous communication capability. So who knows? Yeah, but if that works, I may have read about it and definitely Einstein might you might agree my not agree But you know a quantum entanglement is pretty compelling so it is I guess I don't know I'm not a I'm not that deep into physics to know if it's real or not but it is If we have quantum in tang, we do much more interesting things than haptic pressure, testing, and touch, etc.

1:18:19We're going to do way past all of that. That's a good point. But no, the instantaneous communication from year to Mars and eliminate the 10 -minute latency, if that actually works, then we are either immediately going to discover 10 ,000 other civilizations in the galaxy or we're going to know that they don't exist. And so that's pretty interesting. It's all the Fermi products. Amazing. You know, to wrap up with one Bitcoin story, Trump family enters Bitcoin mining with New Venture American Bitcoin. You know, at the same time as we're recording this, there's been sort of a meltdown of all U .S.

1:18:56stocks and Bitcoin dropped, you know, a good 10%. What happened to the idea that Bitcoin was an uncorrelated storage wealth? Yeah, it's still not uncorrelated. Yeah, it's still super correlated. Well, I mean, everything, the ETF, everyone moving to indexes, which are stupid, I don't mean that they're literally stupid. They have no thought about what they buy and sell. Yeah, the ETF position of the world can't go much further without it being like everything will move together because people are pulling money in and putting money out of ETFs, and they're just selling indiscriminately. And what you saw, like halfway through the day, and tell us way down, and then suddenly somebody realizes, oh wait, Intel's got great news today.

1:19:45It's immune to this. And it's like the one thing green on the ticker. So it's funny how they created this huge R opportunity in the middle of the day. And of course, all the quant funds are making 40 % returns like clockwork. How does that work? Well, it's just picking up on that ETF in efficiency. So, anyway, that's a bit of an aside kind of geeky. I think what's going on here though is data centers are an absolute, data centers and chip access are an absolutely dominant part of economic success going forward. And what do you know? Bitcoin mining is a great way to make money on idle data center power supplies.

1:20:21And I don't like this hugely correlated with inference time compute and training compute buildouts. And so, of course, the Trumps are going to be in the middle of those conversations and recognize the opportunity. Nice. Agreed. All right, Dave, I added the story for you. CoreWeave shares a rip nearly 42 % higher rising above IPO price. So tell me about CoreWeave. So CoreWeave is a heavily levered kind of a bellweather of where AI IPOs are going to go. But it's a tough case because it's got so much debt. And so what's amazing to me is that they wanted to price They had a little shaky demand, so they came out at 40, which is still great.

1:21:04It traded down and everyone got scared to death for one day, and then it skyrocketed. Now even with today's meltdown, it's way up from its IPO price. That is, to me, very much the Yahoo moment. Remember when the internet was starting to take off and Yahoo went public and that just blew up in the markets and then they stayed open for a good solid five, six years after that. But this to me, we could look back and say, oh, okay, this was the bell weather that said the markets are back open. There's only been one, well, it says right there in the bullet, 2021's last time we had anything like this.

1:21:39That's a long time ago. And so I'm hoping, and I really feel like this is going to crack open, not only the IPO markets, but also the M &A markets for all these AI companies. and that's what we desperately need. The alternative is that we lose the race in AI, but this has to happen for the machinery to keep running. It's great. So we really, guys, of super thrilled to see it also because the markets need to open up. And I think that was one of the core promises of the Trump administration is to open up both M &A and the IP markets. And it's great to see the sentiment behind me because Dave said the next few will have as much excitement around them by definition, and it'll be kind of amazing.

1:22:25My crack open the whole paradigm. So Dave, listen, I loved having you on this episode. I like what it's like. Most of them haven't looked forward to it all day. Yeah, it's great. So everybody, listen, I know you love Celine more than me. I got it. He's just better looking, more intelligent, all of that. Let me know what you got that. Does that come on in the comments or something? Well, let me know what you thought of having Dave on WTF. I love bringing the most intelligent people. I know into this conversation to sort of give an understanding of what's happened in the past week and just as the speed of this accelerates and it's accelerating rapidly, love having more intelligent people in myself to analyze the news, give opinions, set me straight.

1:23:13So, also the insider's view because Dave, you've got so much direct knowledge of all these startups and who's doing what in the space is fantastic. Well, I don't know if you remember Peter, but all the conversations we've had with Mike Sayler and Sandra Bonsal and just walking around the streets of Cambridge. This is just like the virtual version of it. It's been the most fun I've had in weeks and just absolutely overjoyed that you have me on. I look forward to having you back, for sure. All right, guys, have a, get some sleep, Selene. I know you've been traveling the globe and Dave, thanks for joining us, buddy.

1:23:48See you guys next time. If you enjoyed this episode, I'm going to be releasing all of the talks, all the key notes from the Abundance Summit exclusively on exponentialmastory .com. You can get on to band access there. Go to exponentialmastory .com.