Cathie Wood on the Bitcoin Halving, Apple/Open AI & NVDIAs Dominance w/ Cathie Wood | EP #108

33:36and where we're gonna have drop -in employees, drop -in programmers, drop -in physicians, drop -in lawyers. And it's just, this is what's gonna enable a startup to come from nowhere and become the single person billion dollar company and disrupt the large players who didn't see it coming. But. I just take that, you know, when the cloud happened, the barriers to innovation came down. and even more so now that we can all become natural language programmers or prompt engineers or I think the barrier to entry is coming down and the costs of all of this innovation are coming down. Not so much the large language models but the cost of most innovation is coming down dramatically.

34:28Let's go to our topic number two, a subject that your audience, my audience loves. So we had Bitcoin. We just had the having. It happened with little fanfare, little change. And the question is, where is Bitcoin going? It was 70 ,000 or there about a month or so ago. It dropped down to below 60. I bought more Bitcoin. How are you feeling about things? What are you seeing as the future here? Yeah, I think so we have four people at RQ are working on crypto generally one dedicated to Bitcoin on chain analytics and judging by those We are We believe halfway through this bull market and and halfway doesn't mean we're halfway through the price increase because as, you know, at the end of a bull market, prices tend to go parabolic.

35:27So we have no idea where that would be. But we feel very strongly just based on on chain analytics, looking at them versus the short 10 year history, 10, a little bit more than that history, that were halfway through the bull market. What's very interesting, since the ETFs were launched in January, many people think, oh, all right, the boom and you know we we had we've had a very nice showing David versus Goliath we're we're in we're in the fight and very happy where we are yeah but not one major what we call them wirehouses like Morgan Stanley UBS Wells Fargo Bank of of Merrill Lynch. Not one has put Bitcoin on its platform yet, a Bitcoin ETF.

36:23They're all doing their due diligence. And I think what's going to happen is within the next few months, one will. And it may be not the big ones. It may be an independent RIA, like LPL. They tend to move a little more quickly. Once you get one with a spot Bitcoin ETF on its platform, the others will fall in line pretty quickly. It was so funny. My mom was like, where do I put my retirement money? I said, put it in a Bitcoin ETF. And I said, who manages for you? She says, Merrill Lynch. Let me talk to you, Merrill Lynch person. We're not allowed to do that. And I'm like, mom, change who manages your money, please.

37:08You know? Well, she, any of the big ones, she's not going to have any better luck. But you can go to an online broker, Robin Hood and others. They tend to be a little bit more adventurous. Kathy, when you were on stage with me at the abundance 360 last, you were saying you saw a million dollar per coin price. Are you still there? Yes. By 2030. Yes, 2030. So our bull case, bull is over 1 .5 million. Our base is in the $650 ,000 ring. So about 10 fold from here by 2030. and there are three big building blocks. Institutional is one, and I would put the, it sounds like retail distribution, but these are institutional decision makers at B of A, Merrill Lynch, and so forth.

38:16So that's one. The second is, this is a replacement for gold, so we assume that it's going to subsume 50 % of the gold, what would be the gold market, especially as younger people are looking to diversify. And then it is an insurance policy in emerging markets. You know, I just visited El Salvador and had the pleasure of meeting the top officials there and they are blazing a trail, making it legal tender and giving their populations or showing the way for other countries to give their policy. What a brilliant move. Yes, it is a brilliant. What about the president? President Bukali is going after two big ideas and we're talking about them.

39:06AI and Bitcoin and my mentor and friend Art Laffer who joined me on this trip. I think is going to be working with that government. It's only a $30 billion economy. Can you believe that? Wow. And here we're talking. And they're going after, they're being very progressive. They're putting in tax policies that are going to encourage innovation. So I think that's a very big idea. Think about that. El Salvador, the entire country, 30 billion. Wow. Time to buy some real estate in El Salvador. Wow. Yeah. Honestly, and I wish other nation states would follow suit here. What an incredible gift to your populace.

39:50And I know our children see that. And the future is – Argentina is moving in this direction. We've talked to the economics ministers there. They're not ready to go the Bitcoin route in the way that President Bukalius, but they're moving in that direction. They're thinking about it. And then the other insurance policy is for anyone, but in high net worth individuals, but anyone as a protection against confiscation of wealth, whether that's inflation or outright confiscation because of corruption. And that is the story of South and Central America, unfortunately, and an important one. Are you tracking anything that would disrupt Bitcoin?

40:40Are you concerned at all? I mean, US politics are interesting. We just saw a rather shaky presidential debate. We'll see what goes there. I don't want to talk about it. But it's interesting. I was meeting with the minister out of Saudi Arabia and who was telling me in, I don't even confidence, but he was saying that his understanding was the US really wanted to block the continued growth and proliferation of Bitcoin. And I can't imagine that that's possible anymore. Do you? Yeah, we don't think it's possible. And it's so interesting how serotonously Bitcoin really has got into the hands of 50 to 60 million Americans and has become an election year issue.

41:34In fact, for many voters, it is the election issue. And that is why for the Financial Innovation Technology Act of the 21st century, so fit 21, I was able to attract 76 Democrats. I think when the Republicans basically turned this into an election year issue, whether accepting campaign donations in crypto or saying that they would protect the right for self -custody, that's a big one. That's a very big one for Bitcoin. And we're very much aligned, even though we have an ETF, and that could be a centralization vector. We think both are true, self -custody for the early adopters and those who learn more about the ecosystem.

42:37But then just getting people into understanding what this is, how powerful this movement is, that is the role of a spot -bick coin ETF. because once you own a spot Bitcoin ETF, you want to learn even more about it. You know what, understand the risk profile of a return profile. It's the easy button for those of you who want to get into Bitcoin. Your predictions are your team's predictions for 2025. What do you see Bitcoin going? Yeah, we tend not to do one year, but if we're in the middle of the bull market, I think the next spur is going to be the platforms putting the spot Bitcoin ETF on it.

43:26So, and I do think that will happen this year. We were told by some of our prospective clients, the platforms themselves that they would need six to nine months to evaluate it. So here we are entering the six month. So I would expect in the fall, one or more will put its, put the A spot, Bitcoin ETF or many of them on their platforms. And I think that will be the next wish then. You know, it's interesting. I remember in the last, I think it was the last having. Many people, you know, we went through the having and everybody waited for a pop and it didn't happen. Well, first of all, it didn't happen because there's a lot of anticipatory buying into it.

44:19But I've watched it kind of, you know, just state, shall we say, and then all of a sudden. So those two could coincide in the fourth quarter of this year. It could be pretty exciting. All those platforms need to do is spend an hour with Mike's sailor and I'm sure they'll excel right there. Well maybe not. Okay. They're risk of verse. So they don't, they want, they don't and Mike is an incredible evangelist for the space. But that doesn't feel safe evangelism. It has to, I'd like to think that our research and we've done a number of white papers, our our first one starting in 2015, I'd like to think that that kind of methodical approach and studying of the subject.

45:10And someone like Art Laffer, who he couldn't be more excited about Bitcoin because for him, he really believes that the Fed, many people feel that they have managed monetary policy over the years. So, you know, we've prevented terrible things from happening. If you look what happened before the Fed came about in 2013, what happened then is prices were stable, we're on the gold standard, and the economy was very volatile. And you ran into, you ran into booms and busts, but they were very quick. They were over in weeks. We lead up for years to a crash in 0809, a poster child for that. And here we are again.

46:04We had zero interest rates. And I wonder what the fallout for private equity, private credit, putting enormous sums into real estate and then leveraging it up. We're starting to see the fallout, whether it offices. and the post -COVID right with the office. And multifamily, multifamily now, even in the areas where there's been large in migration, so the sun belt. We're beginning to see multifamily in excess. So we're going to, we're going to, we'll continue to see, you know, crises, I think, hopefully nothing like, oh, eight, oh nine, I don't think so, but still, you know, 0 % for a very long period of time leads to reaching for yield which leads to bad behavior.

46:56Yeah, gluttony. I think it's the term that I would put towards that. Did you see the movie Oppenheimer? If you did, did you know that besides building the atomic bomb at Los Alamos National Labs that they spent billions on biodefense weapons, the ability to accurately detect viruses and microbes by reading their RNA? Well, a company called biome exclusively licensed the technology from Los Alamos labs to build a platform that can measure your microbiome and the RNA in your blood. Now biome has a product that I've personally used for years called full body intelligence, which collects a few drops of your blood, spit and stool, and can tell you so much about your health.

47:39They've tested over 700 ,000 individuals and used their AI models to deliver members' critical health guidance like what foods you should eat, what foods you shouldn't eat, as well as your supplements and probiotics, your biological age, and other deep health insights. And the results of the recommendations are nothing short of stellar. As reported in the American Journal of Lifestyle Medicine after just six months of following biomes recommendations, members reported the following, a 36 % reduction in depression, a 40 % reduction in anxiety, a 30 % reduction in diabetes, and a 48 % reduction in IBS.

48:17Listen, I've been using Viome for three years. I know that my oral and gut health is one of my highest priorities. Best of all, Viome is affordable, which is part of my mission to democratize health. If you want to join me on this journey, go to Viome .com slash Peter. I've asked Naveen Jane, a friend of mine, who's the founder and CEO of Viome to give my listeners a special discount. You'll find it at Viome .com slash Peter. Let's go to our third subject, my favorite, and it's the disruptive tech conversation. You and I share that DNA and that fascination and that focus. I put into that category for our conversation today, humanoid robots.

48:58I want to talk about Tesla's autonomous robotaxi, which is a huge, huge deal. I think people realize how big the opportunity is there, and you have obviously with the work that you've done. and then biotech with alpha -fold. And I want to get your thoughts on the sort of the biotech winter and if that's over. So let's begin with humanoid robots. Now we've got Tesla bot, also known as Optimus. We've got figure and figure two. We've got out of China, we've got Unitry. And by my count, there's like 30 other humanoid robots that are recently well capitalized. We've got Vinod Kosovo saying, we'll have a billion by 2040, Elon, Brett Adcock is saying maybe closer to 10 billion by 2040.

49:55I asked a friend of mine, I said, what's it gonna be like when you've got a humanoid robot walking down the street? And he says, normal. Well, you know, it's so interesting that he says that because we walked down the street with our air pods on and we're all talking. I remember when cell phones first came out. I wouldn't, I was an ordinary adopter because they were so useful, so important, but I would not talk on the street because people would think I was crazy. You know, so people talking to themselves. Yeah, I do agree with that. We think it's a $25 trillion dollar market broken down half between manufacturing and half non -manufacturing.

50:38Sam Corris has done a lot of work on it. Yes, Brett Adcock, we went Charlie Roberts, our chief investment strategist, and I went to - Well, I love Charlie's amazing. Yeah, yeah, and we went and his specialty, of course, is multi -owned. Yeah, absolutely. But we went to see figure AI and it is amazing and I think I think rumors of this week are they have been courting two very large companies testing with them and they may have sealed a deal. Not sure about that, that's rumor mill stuff, but it's starting to move very quickly. No doubt about it. Yeah. I was over it with Brett. My venture fund is an investor in figure and I had a chance to, we've all seen figure one, and I had Jesse figured two and plans for figure three, and the speed of innovation there is amazing.

51:37I mean, I said to him, I haven't seen anything with this level of energy and iterative innovation since I was at SpaceX on the Falcon one days, and they would literally iterating as rapidly as they possibly could. Yes. It's amazing. And Optimus, I think the other, I think this came out this week, or else it's another one of those rumors. But now Optimus is starting to work in Tesla's factories. So I think they have a question. And with a $10 ,000 price tag? I mean, so now like, that's the question. I love Elon's Optimus. And we both have an abundance mindset, an optimistic mindset for sure. And I think maybe his timeframes are becoming a little more realistic, but $10 ,000.

52:32Now, I have to imagine if you price a Optimus robot by weight and complexity compared to a car, yeah, $10 ,000, if a Model Y is running at $30 ,000 or $40 ,000, that's probably appropriate. If it's $10 ,000 and you can finance it like you do a car, that means you've got, a 24 -7 humanite robot in your house or apartment for a hundred bucks a month. That's insane. Right, so our work, and as you know, we use rights law, and what we have found that is that in the industrial... Define rights law for folks. Oh, okay, sure. Well, it's a relative of Moore's law. Moore's law is a function of time, and it worked very well in the semiconductor industry for years.

53:23Now that semiconductors have hit up against the laws of physics, it's not working so well. What is working well is right -slot, even in the semiconductor industry. Right -slot is not a function of time. It's a function of units. And it says, for every cumulative doubling in the number of units produced in this new technology, cost decline by a consistent percentage rate. And what we're finding is that in the industrial robot space that is the steepest cost decline. It's 50 % for every cumulative doubling. Now what's fascinating about industrial robots, again you'll see this in big ideas, is that But I think in all of the world today, there are only 700 or 800 ,000 industrial robots.

54:18So we're at a very low base from which we're starting this cumulative doubling. So 1, 2, 2, 4, 4, 8, and so forth. Very low base. And the reason there are only 700 or 800 ,000 is they're locked up in cages because they're so dangerous. Now of course with sensor technology that is changing. That's a huge gating factor here and that's why we do expect to see billions over time. So based on our industrial robot cost decline work, I think Elon is close to the mark. Yeah. Yeah. And I think again the implications of this, right, where everybody, this is your homemaker in one sense, your cook, your elderly care, your baby care.

55:10I mean, I don't think we will see that, but if you've got, you know, AGI, and of course the robot revolution is riding on top of the wave of AI, 100%. And then you've got incredible capability coming. And the question becomes, you're either gonna see this as a dystopian future. or you're going to see it as a utopian opportunity. You know, I don't know if you know the gentleman, Sadguru, who is a Indian. I don't know if he's a native Indian. So, Sadguru, I was on stage with him and he said something and he said, listen, exponential technology is the means by which humanity takes a vacation from survival.

55:58And that just really struck me. It was a beautiful, beautiful statement, right? So we spend all of our time struggling and surviving and technologies that means by which we can relax now the question is what do we do with our time? You know can we find new or higher purposes can we up level humanity in a way that We use those robots and that intellectual capacity to do even more extraordinary things Well, I think yeah, I think people were asking the same thing in the early 1900s, right? late 1800s, early 1900s, around farming and the reason for being and couldn't imagine how their lives were going to change.

56:38And that was the last time we've seen multiple innovation platforms evolve at the same time, telephone, electricity, internal combustion engine. And you know, many people thought jobs were going to disappear, tractors, right? There were just, there weren't going to be any jobs. Well, they forgot about human ingenuity and how creative we are and how resourceful we are. And I think we have no idea that kinds of jobs that are going to be created in the next 10 years. We have no idea. In the early 1990s, with the early days of the internet, We couldn't even imagine Uber or Airbnb. We just couldn't imagine it.

57:22It was impossible, right? So. I agree with you. Let's go to a subject that you've been speaking passionately about. And I fully endorse your passion and love the research, which is on Tesla's RoboTaxies. We have an announcement coming up shortly, but a lot of them use there. talk to us about what's coming, what the implications are, because it's huge. It is huge, and there are so many doubters. It's very interesting. I think the most important, one of the most important pieces of work, not sure if I shared it with you, although it is in big ideas, is the safety work that - I saw the graphs in big ideas.

58:09And again, by the way, where do people go to download the big ideas, a document. Yes, it's arc -invest .com. And in there, you will see a chart showing the safety of a cruise automation car, a waymo car, the average car in the US, a Tesla car before FSD, and a Tesla car after FSD. I'll just give two of those. The average car on the road in the US has an accident every 200 ,000 miles. The average car with old FSD think six months ago has an accident every 3 .2 million miles, 200 to 3. You know, Volvo built its brand, it was the sound safety. I think Tesla, I think we're trying to tell this story, but that Tesla should be using this.

59:09So we believe that with unboxed manufacturing, with this August 8th announcement, Elon has been sending messages to his employee base, his supplier base, to the extent he has not verticalized, and to ultimate consumers that we're getting very close to the days of a robot taxi driving us from point A to point B, safely, quickly, and cheaply, inexpensively. So, as you know, we've put out our model, and the Last year, we assumed that our price target, that two -thirds of it would be due to a robotaxi. Our confidence that robotaxi is going to launch within the next 18 months, maybe two years, is very high, so much so that you'll also see in the Tesla report that we put out that you can find in the same site, that we would be shocked if it isn't within two years.

1:00:25There's, you know, the probability of later we think has diminished significantly. Given the breakthroughs in AI, how quickly Tesla is harnessing them, how much data it is continuing to collect. And, you know, Tesla said, or Elon said in his shareholder during the shareholder meeting recently, that the disengagement are happening so rarely now with whole self -driving that he's worried about boredom, you know, of the humans who are overseeing this. They're not finding disengagement. So they are getting very close. Unbox manufacturing means they will be manufacturing both human driven cars and rogotaxis in the same facility, no more assembly line, completely, you know, new first principles thinking.

1:01:19and they'll toggle between the based on demand. So we are getting close and we also think we'll learn more about master plan four on October 8th. Might be wrong on that, but you know, because he didn't put out master plan three more than maybe a year or a year and a half ago. So, but that's how quickly the world is. Yeah, I think, I mean, Tesla for me is the unsung hero of the decade ahead. and so your position there is fully validated in my brain. And it comes from the work they're doing obviously in their vehicles and their lower price vehicles and really I mean they're gonna decimate internal combustion engine cars.

1:02:02It's just gonna be cheaper, faster, better, higher performance vehicle period. And it's pretty good. Yeah, sorry, it's been, again, I've watched the traditional auto manufacturers. They've rallied in here, why? because they're pulling back on electric, they're pulling back on autonomous, and raising dividends and increasing share repurchases. That's just more nails in the cockpit. They're manipulating the wrong direction. But it's coming on top of that, of course, is Tesla is an energy company. Tesla is an AI company. Tesla is a human -eyed robot company. Tesla is a replacement for Uber. and all of these things, any one of them can double triple, you know, get close to 10Xing the valuation of the company.

1:02:54So the question of to ask yourself is, will Elon fall this time? Will he not be able to perform? And I think the recent pay package he received or at least received validation of is all the motivation he needed to push through and he will be, we talked about this last time and it's now even more evident, he will become the first Trillionaire hands down period. And I don't think that's very far away. Yeah, we would absolutely, we would not be surprised, Tesla alone. And in our model, we don't include much for Optimus. We just assume that Optimus becomes, you know, a huge productivity booster within the Tesla organization.

1:03:39We're not assuming any outside sales at all. So, you know, that's a call -option energy storage. We is much more of a call -option for us. Elon thinks it can be as bigger, bigger than autonomous. We would find that hard to believe because we think autonomous opportunity, 8 to 10 trillion dollars. This is for the entire ecosystem, not just Tesla, in revenue generation. This is including China. Of course, Tesla is now going to be participating in this space in China. It's definitely... That would include... Yeah, it is. Some people say, you know, we're debating this ourselves. You know, did China invite them in because China wants to reverse engineer what they're doing because Baidu and Apollo are not up to snuff yet, or are they letting Tesla partner with Baidu for mapping reasons?

1:04:39There's a big divide there. I tend to think China wants to be first on robotaxies, meaning more ubiquitous robotaxies, and they want to learn more from Tesla, just like they did in the VVs. Speaking of this, let's not forget China is developing their own humanoid robots as well. We've seen Unitry there, which was announced at $16 ,000 price tag. The tariff doubled it to $32 ,000 and then Elon came out to $10 ,000. I found that within a month of the announcements fascinating. But it's moving fast. And again, we have to realize all of this is writing on top of the AI wave. Absolutely. Another field writing on top of AI is the whole biotech world.

1:05:36Yes. I do and I love so much. And it has? How are you feeling about that? Well, it's been crucified in the market. Yeah. This is a classic healthcare analysts don't like technology. It moves too quickly, break things, in a regulatory environment, you can get in trouble. Tech analysts don't like healthcare, because there's too much regulation, too many reimbursement obstacles. And so we have this, what is brewing in the multiomics field, is probably more transformative than in any other field. Sure, transportation. We just talked about it. That's pretty transformative. But we've kind of gotten the hang of what this is going to be because of Uber and Lyft longer run.

1:06:30We know we got it that conceptually. But the idea of being able to diagnose cancer before stage one, thanks to the convergence of sequencing technologies and artificial intelligence. and then we'll be able to cure disease because of CRISPR gene editing. I don't think the market believe that. It is, but what's so interesting to me about this is CRISPR therapeutics has, it's two of its therapies, one for beta thalassemia, one for sickle cell disease. They have been approved not only by the US but also by the UK and Europe. And back then, I'll never forget, I had the privilege of interviewing Jennifer Daudna before she won the Nobel Prize for CRISPR -Cas9.

1:07:26And I remember back then she was saying, look, I don't want to talk about efficacy at all. All I care about is safety. That is the thing we have to prove here. So here we are not even well maybe roughly four years later Not only have we proven it out on safety But efficacy bethousi me that cured

1:07:51Single one one and this man the first trial participant now in the trial for almost four years used to go to the hospital 17 times per year for on an emergency basis for blood transfusions. Now, here we are. It's been approved. It's a low single digit billion dollar company. This is a very big idea. And yet the market has no time, no time. And what they're looking at, it's so interesting because I think one of the callous and brothers just came out with a new gene editing technique on bacteria. And so that was the scare story. Well, that's going to take a decade, you know? Meanwhile, we can cure one disease after another, after another with existing technologies.

1:08:48You know, the marketplace has done a... Well, it's interesting that the entire pharmaceutical biotech industry has gotten beat up because of not having revenues, even though the market potential is massive. I've seen this in my own companies and it's awful. It's better to be a private company and grow than being a public company because you're being beat up and trading below cash levels. It's crazy. But what I think the market hasn't realized, and what I'm, you know, a lot of my work is right now, Kathy is on longevity. It's the big, you know, there are two big markets on the planet, AI and longevity.

1:09:29You know, what would someone pay to add 20 or 30 healthy years, real vital healthy years on the end of their life? I think it would be the majority of their net worth. I think that they would pay 80 % of what they had in the bank account. If they had really the ability to add decades of health on their life. If you think about that way, it's a huge marketplace. Not only that, there's going to be a massive shift in where investors allocate healthcare dollars. If we are curing disease, right, then we're done. You know, I mean, that's an exaggeration. It's going to take years and years. But what are these big pharma companies?

1:10:14They're huge distribution, S -G -N -A engine, sales, general administrative, and the sales person has to go in year after year to make sure that his or her companies' drugs are top of mind. Well, guess what? You're not going to need them, right? No, there's a big disruption coming on the top of the food, on the pharma industry. I was having, I had dinner with Demis Hassebus, the CEO of DeepMind, Sir Demis, I should say. And we talked about AlphaVol3. So AlphaVol1, as you remember, was the AI engine able to predict the exact folding of a protein based on amino acid sequence, a super -compining problem for 50 years.

1:11:01So AlphaVol3 gets released a few months ago, and it can now predict the interaction of all molecules, like here's a carbohydrate, a protein, a, you know, whatever, and sugar molecule, and how they interact together. And where they're going next is amazing. They want to be able to create an AI model of an entire cell, and then an AI model of a tissue, and an organ, and an AI model of you, to know that this drug works just perfectly for you. And the secret of why do some people make it to 120 and some people die at 70? It's not random chance. It's in the biology of the human, and we will understand that.

1:11:48We have the information. We have the information, and year by year, each of us will find more mutations, and the sooner we find them, now that we can and we couldn't before, the sooner we'll be able to correct them, edit those programming errors out. So, yeah, it's going to transform healthcare. You know, it's been fascinating to watch. I just told you what we think is going to happen to the large farm accomplices. Yes, sure. But they have the cash. Yes. This market is treating companies with big cash and - The GLP1, I mean, it's crazy what's happened with the GLP1 drugs making the most valuable companies in the planet.

1:12:31Right. Well, and that was, you know, that was discovered brute force, the old way, right? And more power to them, it is. But what if we cure diabetes? CRISPR -theraputics has diabetes, both type one and type two, on its roadmap. and if Sam Colcarnie at CRISPR thinks that it's possible, I believe it. And, you know, these are the new platform companies in a sense. You know, this reminds me of Genentech. I remember the wrestling around Genentech in the early days. And Genentech launched the biotech age. The market's not even really looking at this, and it is astonishing. And I know one of the showstoppers right now is, oh my gosh, this cure, one and done, is $2 million.

1:13:23Well you have to do the cost -benefit analysis of not going to the emergency room 17 times per year on an emergency basis. And we do have to look at value -based pricing, okay? Maybe it's 100 ,000 or whatever upfront and then for every year that this disease does not recur, the insurance company should be willing to pay. We need new business models, absolutely. Absolutely. What's happening here? But what you said is really important just now. These are cures versus the versus amelioration of the problem. So the farm industry has survived by not curing diseases, but by treating symptoms of the disease.

1:14:06And so once you get the disease like AIDS, for example, we're not curing AIDS right now. Now we do have the ability with CRISPR to cure someone who has an HIV infection. We can go in there and disrupt it and it's coming. But we're going to give you drugs for the rest of your life. And it's your customer for the next 50 years. Congratulations and welcome aboard. Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting in the Hepsy world. This is where we got the sticker shock first. It was Gilead, Solvaldi was the drug and everyone was up in arms, right? No, we're not paying that. Well, the system is, that is one of the biggest drugs out there.

1:14:44The system is paying because it is saving so much. In the long run, yeah. So I think that's, as you say, many people do not, most people don't like change. And especially in the healthcare space investors, they just know phase one, phase two, phase three. That's what they know. Cures they don't know. It just doesn't register almost. See, let me make this, let me make this commercial for you rather than you doing it. This is where you differentiate from the majority of the investor thought leaders out there, Cathy, in a beautiful way. You're not going after the Mag Six, right? You're going because they're the dominant players today.

1:15:27That's great. But there's a thousand extraordinary young companies that are innovative, of hungry and interrating at a much faster rate. And that's true both on the AI tech side as well as the bio -pharmacide. And your ability through your research team to find those companies identify them early because they are going to disrupt the, you know, my analogy here is the dinosaurs of 65 million years ago, right? So these dinosaurs are fat and lumbering and moving along and this asteroid come and strikes the earth and it changes the environment so rapidly that the dinosaurs are unable to adapt and it's the furry mammals that are agile, they're able to adapt to this rapidly changing environment that are the ones that survive and thrive.

1:16:18And the asteroid striking there today is AI and these exponential technologies that are changing the game faster than you know you can snap the head of a CEO of a large old -style company. It's a great analogy and so we do look at companies like Nvidia, we get information. Where are they choosing to invest themselves in their venture fund? And so recursion therapeutics, perfect example. But you know, and is enabling drug discovery, you know, at warp speed compared to other, compared to traditional methods and again the involving AI very importantly. One thing I will say and this I just found out this week very hopeful that that Roche, Roche, some people call it, Genentech there, is using it because we've been puzzled why aren't these companies you know racing after these new ways of doing things.

1:17:22It has to do with talent and the kind of talent they have and there will have to be a changing of the guard, just like there was from pure chemistry to molecular biology, right? Now you have to bring technology into it and the way we started this was healthcare and technology in the investment world. It seems as though the types of investors clash or the analyst's class, you know? They operate at different cadences, and they have different risk tolerances. And that's what I think we're dealing with, with your companies, with our companies, but truth will win out. Yes, and an exponential tech and innovation will disrupt it all.

1:18:11And it's not just to close us out here, it's not something if you're, wherever you are in your life cycle as an entrepreneur, as a parent. This is not something that's 10 years out or 20 years out. It's the next two or three years. This is the most exciting time ever to be alive. Kathy, congratulations on a 10 year run for ARC Invest. The next 10 years are going to be awesome. They're going to be wild Peter and thank you for all you do to enlighten people. It's So important, get on the right side of change, right? Yeah, yeah. And I enjoy our friendship and looking forward to seeing you next March.

1:18:55But more so to see where you're making your bets. And tell us real quick, where do folks go to find out about some of your funds? Yes. So the site I gave you before, arc -invest .com is our research site. Our fund site is arc -funds .com. And that includes both our ETFs and our venture fund. Fantastic. Kathy, you have a beautiful day. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.