David Sinclair (Harvard Professor) Reveals Age-Reversing Science to Look & Feel Younger

27:54Exactly. And my students are great and that they are. And I met I came to your lab book was a month ago and I met many of them and they're brilliant. Yeah, they like my children actually and on some days that the I love them all the more than my engineering. But yeah, they're very very special group and they are working so hard to change the world and make these medicines a reality. Yeah, and we'll talk about, But the insanity of funding cuts in a little bit and the importance of the work that you're doing. So anything else you want to add on the information theory? Do you have experiments planned that will just nail this down?

28:39How does a theory become like just accepted gospel in fact? I think it happens at one funeral at a time. I mean, I've been very pleasantly surprised that the theory, which is called Itoa for short ITOA, is being well accepted by the community. And there's more and more evidence every few weeks about this. I think what will really convince people is when we disrupt the observer we call it. So this backup copy based on Claude Shannon, I'm a big fan of his and you know that. And so for those of you who don't know about Cloud Shannon, just briefly, Claude was a scientist at MIT and Bell Labs who figured out the information theory of communication.

29:25So the reason we have an internet is because of him. And the same mathematics and concepts I poached and used them for aging. And so the information theory of aging is all about the preservation of information and having a backup copy, which at the time he called it the observer. So we still talk in my lab about finding the observer. and the observer keeps the backup copy of the original signal. And if you lose it by the time it gets to the sender, you can go back and retrieve what's missing from the observer. And so what we think is that the observer has a physical, as I mentioned, a state. It's got information there.

30:02We think we've found that information. It's novel biology. And what when we show, if we show, that breaking that system prevents age reversal from happening, then I think that the community will believe us. Love it, love it. So we just launched about 18 months ago, something called the $101 million HealthSpan X Prize. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. I think you're in the process of registering for that competition. Yeah, registered. Oh, you registered fantastic. So we've had like 625 teams from around the world. And for those who haven't heard me speak about it before, This is an ex -price, one of our largest.

30:45We raised $157 million. GSK is a big sponsor of it as well, but our primary two sponsors are General William Chip Wilson, the founder of Lemon, who has a muscular distrape called FSHD, and he put in 36 million, and then a group out of Saudi Arabia called evolution, think health and evolution. They put in 40 million. I'm a multi -million dollar donor, we have a lot of incredible people who are supporting this. And the goal is, can we get the smartest people in the world, including you, working on reversing the loss of cognition, immune, and muscle? And I'm amazed the variety of different approaches.

31:28And I'm excited that that your lab will be participating. But we're seeing like a huge range, I mean from Cylar medicines to gene therapies to so I want to ask you beyond your own work. The state of the union for you know, age reversal for longevity, is it still an uphill battle in the scientific world in the funding world? Because it used to be a stigma if you said you're doing age reversal work. It was like oh this person's insane. Yes. Is it gotten, has that gotten better. Not much. Especially age reversal. There's still the old school in my field that doesn't like the word reversal. But it's somewhat better that at least saying that you work on longevity as an Estigma.

32:20And there's a lot more funding outside of academia for this, of course. But in academia, there's less money than ever to study this topic, which is surprising given how much potential it has to change medic. Yeah, interesting thing is it's coming a lot of the funding from this is coming from the crypto community. There's a great alignment between, you know, people who believe in crypto is a long, you know, Bitcoin long term vision for capital as well and longevity. We've seen Jeff Bezos and Yuri Milner back Althos. We've seen Brian Armstrong back in your limit. We've seen Sam Altman back retro.

32:57So it's good to see some of these multi -billionaires backing these things. I mean, I for one, if I had that level of capital, I'd be backing it like all of them. Yeah, well, one or more of these companies could dominate pharmaceuticals in the 21st century. I mean, it is a trillion, multi -trillion dollar marketplace. Yeah. I mean, I'm on stages and perhaps you are too. And I ask, okay, you're seven, you're eight years old. You know, this is a room of family offices wealthy individuals and You know, you're slowly degrading as people do in that in the last decades and Someone comes up to you and says listen here is a therapeutic It will give you an extra 20 healthy years not 20 healthy years right now like Where you were you know in your 50s?

33:46How much of your wealth would you give for that? And if they're honest, it would be the vast majority, you know, 80 plus percent. And when I think about that, that is, you know, tens of trillions of dollars. So I think it's a giant market. I'm hopeful that we'll see a lot more funding coming in from people, both philanthropically and investment ones. Me too. Actually, the story I like is if you ask someone in their 30s, what would you do to trade with Warren Buffett. No one says they trade with him, no matter how much money he has, because he's older. So the years you have are worth everything to you, more than money.

34:30Agreed. Agreed. Everyone, as you know, earlier this year, I was on stage at the Abundance Summit with some incredible individuals. Kathy Wood, Mo Gadot, Vinod Kostla, Brett Adcock, and many other amazing tech CEOs. I'm always asked, hey Peter, where can I see the summit? Well, I'm finally releasing all the talks. You can access my conversation with Kathy Wood and Mogadot for free at dmandis .com slash summit. That's the talk with Kathy Wood and Mogadot for free at dmandis .com slash summit. Enjoy. I'll ask my team to put the links in the show notes below. So what else are you seeing out there that could be a viable age reversal therapeutic?

35:13Are you seeing any particular without naming necessarily labs or anything but approaches? Well, there's a few. So I work on epigenetic reprogramming at life biosciences and these companies you just mentioned they're also chasing us. So we started a little earlier than they did, but they're trying to catch up. So that's a big area and why I'm hopeful that one or more of us is going to succeed. So that's whole, I think that's, for me, the most promising. That's why I'm putting my own money into it as well. What else is important? Well, I think that there's factors from the blood. So we know that plasma freesis, exchanging your plasma has some benefits and looking better all the time.

35:55Like therapeutic plasma exchange. That's right. Yeah, I've done that five times now. Right. Yeah. I've, I think I've done it maybe a few times, but I really believe in it because there's a lot of animal data and some human data coming that looks good. But what is it about that that's beneficial? We're actually trying to turn that into a pill, but stay tuned for that because it'll be easier than I've seen for an hour. But that sounds promising, right? That there's something in our blood that's keeping us old or fresh that comes in that makes us young. There's some factors already companies are working on.

36:25But I think there might be a few really good ones that you could take as a drip and rejuvenate. There was a promise of GDF 11 years ago. I mean, the problem is a lot of these companies get funded with seed capital, but being a biology medical company is expensive and they run out of capital. Yeah, it is. And I think there's something that we haven't found yet that's going to be more rejuvenative. So we're screening these proteins in the blood and genes that do epigenetic reprogramming. And so you could imagine that there's a peptide perhaps or a protein that is circulating in the blood. And when it circulates, it triggers these genes that give rejuvenation.

37:12So we're looking for that. Stem cells, it's been a bit slow, but we're starting to see a resurgence of stem cell interest in approval. So the FDA now approves certain types of stem cell therapy. Yeah, and we've just seen states begin to become much more lenient. So Florida is in the process of passing regulation to allow you to do stem cell treatments in state. I think it was Utah. Is there already other places? Which is great. Because before this, you go to Panama or Costa Rica or Antigua to do it, which is fine, except you don't have your medical team around you and you're operating XUS. Right.

37:51So presumably fountain life is going to get into that? Yeah, fountain life we have two centers right now in Naples, in Orlando, and we're opening up Miami, and those will all have hopefully the most advanced stem cell therapeutics available, as well as other cellular medicine, NK cell supplementation. Yeah, which kill cancer cells? Yeah, and natural killer cells, your innate immune system, you know, kill cancers. We're always developing cancers and we depend on our immune system to find them and kill them. And the same NK cells also went down infected, virally infected cells. Yeah, well, we're working on a new type of stem cell, a very rare type.

38:28We should, we should talk because there's something that there's a stem cell that actually turns into the tissue that it lands in. And that's different than current stem cells. Oh, yeah. Interesting. Okay. I think that area has promised to, um, Sinescent cell killing chemicals somewhat promising. I saw Elto's sport accompany or is merging with a company that works on that. It's been a little slow, a little bit disappointing with Unity. Yeah, it's so surprised. Unity biosciences goes public and then their data comes back and they crash and they're slowly, slowly, you can go back. It wasn't a complete failure, just they didn't reach the endpoint.

39:07So there's a lot of variability, so that's part of the issue. But I think they'll keep pushing on and they'll find something. These synestin cells are important. We know from a lot of studies that if you delete these cells, you can improve metabolism and a bunch of things. Can you can you use epijectory programming to move synestin cells back to normal healthy cells? We have a project in my lab on that. And so far it looks like yes, we can do both rejuvenation of stem cells, so that they don't cause havoc, but they normally cause a lot of inflammation and even cancer. So we can stop that with reprogramming.

39:44But in some cases, we can even rejuvenate them so they grow again. Normally they're sitting. Just for folks, there's something called the hapholic limit, which is, is it 50 cell replications there abouts that a cell should replicate 50 times and then have the decency to die. And if it doesn't, it can become a cancer cell or a senescent cell, which is pumping out these inflammatory factors. Yeah. And so you can either kill them or you can cure them. And so it looks like we can cure them, but we're not sure if that's a good thing. We have to figure out if curing a senescent cell will just give us more problems.

40:19But at least in tissue culture, it looks like reprogramming does work in that regard. And also you might, somebody might be asking, you might be asking, if you reprogram a cancer cell, what happens? Oh, yeah. Fascinating. I have good news on that Okay. Do tell one of my graduate students who work on this for a few years and we have a lot of evidence that many types of cancers are killed by reprogramming, which is interesting if you think about it. Oh, so you have a cancer cell. It's growing. You've discovered at stage three or stage four and it's through different parts of the body. You hit it with an epigenic reprogramming cocktail, right?

40:57And it has a decent Cedar die. Well, I think it freaks out and realizes it wakes up from its zombie -like state and says, oh my goodness, my chromosomes are messed up. I better kill myself because one of the ways to become a cancer cell is to ignore its DNA damage. They're filled with DNA damage. And when we wake them up, they can, so if you wake up a normal cell, it goes back and it gets younger. But if you wake up a cancer cell, it looks like it realizes it should kill itself and it does. Amazing. That's crazy amazing. All right, so I want to dive into a couple of your companies that I'm tracking.

41:37I've had them on my stages at the abundance platinum event, which I do every fall. For those of you interested, David and I will be together in Boston, our abundance platinum trip this year is the last five days of September. If you want more information, you can go to abundance360 .com slash longevity. Life biosciences and metro biotech. Two very cool companies. Let's talk about each of those. So we start with life biosciences. This is the more recent one. This was founded in 2017 -18 and they're the ones that have shown in monkeys that you can basically cure blindness and get vision back. And so the first studies will be in January if goal goes well.

42:20So you've gone originally from mice to monkeys, so non -human primates, and it worked as expected in both cases. It was better than expected actually. And so far, there's no signs of any reason why we shouldn't go into humans next year. It's going to depend on the FDA, but we're planning to submit what's called an IND shortly. And hopefully by this time next year, we know if it's working because the studies are are straight into patients. And so is it a single injection? What is it? Oh, good question. It's a single injection. So with macular generation, it's very common to get one injection or more.

43:01You don't feel that it's nothing bad. And what this virus does, so the AV you mentioned, goes into the nerves at the back of the eye. We just turn it on by giving the patient some antibiotic, toxic cycle. It's toxic, right? Yeah. And which is, by the way, is just the trigger that turns on. And that segment of DNA is just... Yeah, so we put in those three genes on inside the virus. So we normally have these genes. We're not changing the genome, but by putting these three genes in the virus, we can control them better. And now that what's called docs -inducable, and we could have used any chemical, doesn't have to be docs, but docs is...

43:38Such a safe drug. In easy way. And it's been in research for decades, so we chose that. But yeah, so by this time next year, we should know if it can improve vision in people that have gone blind either from a stroke in their eye or from glaucoma. Amazing. How big will your phase want to be, you think? It's a small study, right? You start with one and then two then ten. Yeah. And we're just raising money to go into our phase two study already. Awesome. Any other elements of life biosciences besides that specific. Well, some of it's, you know, I'm bound by confident generally, but I can say in general that But the company has, that's phase one, by the company.

44:18Let's call it stage one, not to confuse it with clinical trials. Stage one is proof of concept in the eye. Does it work? Two shots on goal, two diseases. Stage two for the company, which is already underway, is using AI to convert to chemicals. So you have a pill instead, or an LNP, which is the lipid nanoparticles. You don't use viruses. Whole body, rejuvenation. They're already doing that. And then so stage three would be going into multiple diseases and eventually whole body rejuvenation. All right, so let's pause right there and focus in on this. So I think one of the realizations is for those who develop a disease when you were younger you didn't have the disease and so if you're able to actually induce some type of age reversal You know does that cure the disease in mice.

45:08It's working great So for instance, glaucoma is an age -related disease. You make the eye young again in the animal. The disease goes away. The body can heal itself. And that's been really not the approach of medicine. As we know it, medicine, as you know, your trained doctor, is, oh, we treat the symptoms of this disease and slow it or cure it. But we don't use the body's own healing properties. Now we've uncovered the ultimate healing property. We believe that we've uncovered the ability that salamanders have to regal grow limbs and fish grow new tails with similar process. And we just turn on these embryonic genes and now we get youth and now the body can heal itself.

45:46So besides vision, what else have we tried? Well, in my lab, we've done Alzheimer's disease cured. Wow. Some muscle diseases cured. ALS, pretty cured. And that's important because in my partner's family, we have ALS. So that's, we're rushing to fix that one. And we published it with a collaborator that we could alleviate multiple sclerosis with this as well. So so far, we have not seen a disease or an injury that could not be effectively treated with this therapy. Now, doesn't mean everything can be cured, but what it's telling me is that diseases that we've been treating really would just been addressing the symptoms, not the underlying cause.

46:31And finally now, we're treating what's really underlying most diseases, which is the aging universal aging process itself. And the challenges today's medical system is built all around just treating the symptoms. It's built around keeping you alive and treating what's possible, but not curing you. I mean, it's really quite insane. Whole body rejuvenation, again, by taking a set of pills. do you so we don't see like when arm get younger than the other arm we don't see any of that going on. So the notion is that if you're going to be able to reverse the aging of a particular system, skin or muscle or you know hepatic that it's going to hit all tissues, all organs.

47:29Well, that's the ultimate goal and we're already testing in mice how that works. There was another lab, our collaborators out of George Church's lab where we collaborating with George, you know, George is in my department at Harvard. We collaborated initially on building these viruses and they did the experiment that I thought was really interesting, which was just to inject the virus, not just into the eye, but injected into the vein of the mouse. And if we're right, the mice should live longer. And even though this was a Hail Mary experiment not optimized, those old mice that they treated lived another 109 % longer.

48:06Okay, so I have to ask you this question at this point. Yeah, we talk about mice, mice are the lab mice are experimented on everything. And a typical lab mouse lives how long 24 four months, thirty six months. Yeah. Yeah. Twenty 28 months. Twenty eight months. Okay. Why aren't we seeing mice that are are living not two years, but 10 years at this point? Well, what's going on there? Because I think we were taking the wrong approach. What happened to the field, unfortunately, in the two months? By the way, I just, I just noted, noted this real quick for, for reference. In June of 1982, Richard Weinjrad and Roy Walford at UCLA showed that life extension of 30 to 40 % was possible through calorie restriction to get a mouse to what is currently the record of 53 months.

49:00So you just have to starve the mouse and you can almost double its lifespan, which I don't think anybody here wants to do. No, it'll certainly make life feel longer. But yeah, those guys showed early on that you can extend lifespan through diet, but it's not pleasant. But now we're seeing combination drugs. There was one published last week that combination of two anti -cancer drugs could extend lifespan of my 30%. So we're approaching the same levels of extension as we saw with those early studies, but ultimately we want to make my sleep five times longer, ten times longer. You think we'll get there?

49:37I mean, I don't care about the most sleeping longer. I just want some additional evidence that you know, remove the needle. Yeah, well our field has made lower organisms live 10 times longer. So what is it about mammals? That's harder. I think we were just taking the wrong approach. We were saying, oh, let's try this molecule that turns on this longevity pathway or that longevity pathway. Most of these longevity pathways that we worked on starting in the 2000s with molecules to tweak them, we were just slowing aging. We weren't reversing aging. I think with this new age reversal approach and these technologies, the gene therapy and these new cocktails that we have in my lab, we have a much better chance of being able to repeatedly reverse aging and get them out to a lot maybe five years.

50:21And this is, I'm excited about this because remember I said over the holiday break, within four weeks, we made them basically young mice again. We want to try this over lifespan. And we've got a good chance, I think of going when might you do that? When might you run that experiment. Well, as soon as we have the money to do that, right? So let's all right, we're going to we're going to talk about money in just a little bit. I do want to hit on a basic idea that I want people to understand, which is the idea of these seven Sir two engines or these proteins. And the battle between between DNA repair and epigenetic drift, right?

51:04So, they find understand from reading your book and speaking to you what we have are these seven -cer -two -ins that are conserved across almost all life. Yeah, even bacteria. Yeah. Even bacteria. And as they have two functions in the cell, right, one is to repair DNA damage, and one is to make sure that the right genes are on and the right genes are off. Is that basically a case? Yeah, yeah. And as we get older, and I'm pitching this back to you, because this is how I explain on stage, we're accumulating some DNA damage. And of course, the, you know, the seretoons are going back and forth between these two functions.

51:46And as we get older, our internal NAD levels drop by as much as 50%, right? And NAD is sort of the energy currency in the cell that powers these seretoons. And so if they're having less energy and having to go back and forth between DNA repair and epigenetic drift, our epigenal loses and we get aging, is that correct? Mostly. Okay, correct me when I'm off. Even without the decline in NAD, we have problems. And we showed this in a mouse that we published in 2023 and the journal Cell was that even if we distracted the certunes from the main role of silencing genes, when a mouse was young that was enough to make them age 50 % faster.

52:30And these were called the ice mice. Indusible changes, the epigenomice. And so we created non -murogenic cuts and that distracted the sort of two ends from where they were on the chromosomes and they went elsewhere and often didn't come back to where they belonged. And that just for three weeks was enough to trigger the domino effect of aging in those animals. And they didn't just look old. They were all by every measure. The tissues were old. The phisolgios old, the DNA methylation clocks were older. And then we also did a little experiment to reverse the tissues at the end just for some fun.

53:05Just for some fun. Your lab must be a blast to work in. I wish I go back to my medical school days and come and knock on your door and volunteer. I spoke about AI in your research because that's new since we last really went deep. I mean the entire, the explosion of the AI field and understanding, especially as applied to basic sciences. So tell me, how are you using it? What's it doing for you? Well, it's central to everything now. We barely run an experiment without consulting our AI agents. But we want to... Let me tell you about two areas. I think it's interesting. The first is in visualization.

53:44We've developed algorithms called dash AI. I forget what it stands for, but basically the idea is that we can visualize old and young cells using a microscope and tell very quickly within nanoseconds what age those cells are just by looking at them. Fascinating. And that's important if we're sure. And as we are screening, be genes and molecules that control and reverse aging. And measuring what matters. Yeah, yeah. And so we have a curve that stretches from 20 -year -old cells or cells from 20 -year -olds skin cells, the 93 year olds. And within nanoseconds, you can, not you, but the computer looks at the image and can say, all right, those cells were 93 last week and now they're 20.

54:31And so we have chemicals that do that. So that just gives you super rapid screening of all kinds of chemicals. Yeah. So that's using robotics and AI visualization. That's one aspect. Yeah. But really what blows me away is the other part, which is we believe we've found And the four main levers to reverse aging, what I mean by that is that there are enzymes that control the epigenome. There are four main pathways and you want to pull back the lever, so inhibit three of those and push one. And that combination is the winning one. And so we have chemicals that do that, but they're cocktails. We publish some of these.

55:11These cocktails work on these four levers. But what we really want is just one simple safe molecule, because it's easier to develop as a medicine that does those four things. Now, if you'd said to even a pharmaceutical company with a billion dollars, did you do that? They would have said probably five years ago, no way. Right? Doing one of those liverpools is hard enough. Which I mean, decades and billions of dollars. Yeah, optimizing and physical screening and making the molecules by hand as chemists. But now we can just take all known molecules and virtually screen them in a couple of months against all those four targets and come up.

55:50I mean, so when you say Take all known molecules. We're talking about actually physically doing this in a p -tree dish. Oh no goodness We're talking millions of years. So what are you actually doing? Yeah Well, we virtually dock them into the enzymes and the AI is is It's precise enough to create an actual physical model. For sure. I mean, Demacen is team solved all of the structures, as you know. And so that made this all possible. Now we can just be the number crunching. And so, yeah. So normally, this docking would be done by hand, by a person, would take days to do. And now it's just done like this, this, this.

56:33And you can do billions, actually trillions. and there are libraries of virtual molecules, but also there are actually physical libraries. So what's happened is we've now got a set of 100 top candidates, some synthetic, some natural, and we can just order them, like you would on Amazon, bring in your chemicals and put them through our AI -assisted screening. Crazy. So earlier you said it was gonna be a cocktail of four molecules that you're trying now. Yeah, we published six and we're now down to three. Three, okay. And if we're, if you believe you get down to one, well, we're testing them now and they look good so far.

57:12Amazing. Amazing. I want to turn to a subject that is, that's a bit painful and recent and, and very impactful about this longevity future, which is funding. It's been a travesty of the massive cuts in science. And I know you've been hit hard by it. How hard have you been hit? Well, I spend more time as a psychiatrist now than a doctor, than a scientist. It's tough. The poor kids in my lab who are innocent and this are really suffering. What percentage of your lab is funded through that of government grants? The majority of government funded and all of those grants were terminated. 100 % of those grants were terminated.

58:03Yeah, they're all gone. Any explanation as to why? Harvard's in the target of federal government. It's not just the doge activities. It's Harvard's being specifically. The single doubt for quote unquote anti -semitism, but taking it out on my poor students who are like my own kids, it's rough. Well, they're taking it out on the rest of us too. If this science gets delayed by a year, that just puts another percentage of the population at risk of dying. Well, we may never know what medicines will never exist in our lifetime because of this, unfortunately, because the Harvard Medical School is the crown jewel of research in the world and to stop all that research.

58:45I met one of my colleagues in the cafeteria last week and he's a leading guy in in his field and I said what are you gonna do now that you've got no money? He goes I had a good run. I'll go home I might write a book. It's done. He's over. It's clear. He's ended. He's done But I'm not giving up a young enough fight Yeah, it's too important to get as you should. I want to help you You know one of the things I realized is Probably the single thing that the US could do to solve the US debt is give people an extra 20 years of health. Yeah, absolutely. We've crunched the numbers. I know. So talk about that.

59:25There was a study at Harvard, London School of Business, and Oxford on that. What did the study say? What was the financial application here? Yeah. So I teamed up with a couple of great economists. And they calculated that in the US, extending healthy lifespan just by one year, by keeping people out of nursing homes and giving them back to the community and making them productive, was a value to the US economy of $86 trillion. That's just one year. That's doable. 36 or 86. Did I say 36? No, you said 86. I think it is 36. It is 86 million. No, 86 trillion. We will fact check that. Okay. But, and then it was 366 or 7 trillion for 10 years.

1:00:13Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. These numbers are staggering. This is like the defense budget. I mean, this is people staying active and generating in the economy and not having to pay out on healthcare costs. That's what it is. And then people spend money, right? They're traveling and they're buying things. I use my father as a role model. And he's on our program or whatever. he's doing well. The update on him is he's turning 86 and when most men at his age are in the ground or on the shelf, he is as young as he was when he was in his 40s, right? He acts, moves, travels, thinks and joins his life like we do.

1:00:52And he's not slowing down at all. He still drives it night without glasses, you know, he has to take a test because he's old, but you know, he passes with flying colors. So think about if the population on average was like him, What kind of a world would it be? These people are valuable, every life is valuable. You can even put dollars on every life's value. It's millions. I tell people, if you're 80, but you feel like you're 50, you've had all of your relationships, are you going to want to retire or are you going to want to just go for the next thing? The reason people retire is they're in pain, they're out of energy, or they're forced to by regulation.

1:01:32Yeah, or you don't like your job, but there's there's skill badacles and we live in a world where you can reinvent yourself pretty quickly And so I look forward to people like my dad who started a new career in his 80s Yeah, he was now supervising clinical trials and he's giving back to the communities He's living with one of my nephews who's raising my dad my dad at 86 nailie 86 is raising his nephew It should be the other way around right but now he's so healthy he's taking care of his grandkids. And it's better that way because imagine life the other way around, and you don't have to actually have to imagine it, just go to Japan where people are age are taking care of not just their parents, sometimes their grandparents and their kids and sometimes their grandkids.

1:02:16That's a huge burden on a generation to take care of both the people who are sick older than them and the young people who either don't have jobs or need help in other ways. David, how much funding did your lab lose in total? It was millions, and we were just at the beginning of some of these grants. And one of the grants, by the way, was a career grant given to Kelly Rich, a postdoc who has actually been speaking out in the media as the cruelty of these cuts to her and the lab. She was working on ALS in a race to try and help Serena's mom. And we were making good progress. We showed that these reprogramming chemicals and genes could treat neuromuscular disorders in mice.

1:02:58And we, not that far away with AI of having something that she could take as a pill, perhaps some natural molecules, and to have the funding cut without really any explanation was more than a blow to us. And so we've lost a lot of money and also the spirit to go on. We have a lot of amazing people at Watchers Podcast, a lot of people who have made their their wealth and digital assets and who are entrepreneurs. And I think there is a very close connection between those who are deep in crypto and Bitcoin and Ethereum and those who love longevity. And there's just, they go in connection. So I want to do two, three things.

1:03:41And I mentioned you beforehand, I want to do this and this is not something you asked for or something I want to do. So there are, and I'll speak into camera here, there are three ways that I want to invite you to join me in supporting David's research and his lab. Again, this is not a request he made. This is something I feel compelled to do because I care deeply about this work. I care deeply about having it available personally for my family and for all of us. And hopefully what you've seen here so far convinces you that there is real value that's being created and honestly for the small amount of money that you spend, it's a travesty because it does compare a few million dollars to trillions of dollars of upside, let alone lives being saved.

1:04:32So there is a link we're going to put in the show notes that is to donate directly to is lab at Harvard. It's tax deductible. You can donate from $50 to $1 ,000 and welcome you to do that. And I'm sure they would be super grateful for it. The second thing is we're going to put up a QR code here. For a moment, you can pause the video or go to the YouTube video if you're listening. It's an audible to see it. But also put the links in the show notes below, where you can link to a coin -based account where you can donate stable coin, Bitcoin or Ethereum. And I welcome you to. I really, I hope you guys shock us and surprise us with your generosity.

1:05:22If you're one of the many Bitcoin well billionaires out there listening to this podcast, I mean imagine what your donation could do. It could move the needle here in an extraordinary way. I always like to lead whenever I'm asking for any kind of donation. So something I'm proposing, I just proposed it to David before this, is the creation of a program called Friends of Sinclair Lab. And David, we talked about this. This would be for, I want to keep it intimate enough so that the people who donate at this level get the benefit of building a relationship with you and getting early access to knowledge.

1:06:06But the idea here would be people who donate $50 ,000 and I'm going to be the first to step up and donate $50K. Historically, my largest donations have been to the Ex -Prize Foundation and to our longevity, our health spend prize and also to Dean K. Mett first robotics and also to David, I'm Tony Robbins and I donated a quarter million dollars early on to support David's work. So this idea of friends of Sinclair Lab, if you want to join me at a 50k or greater level, send an email to let's you misspell it out here, friends of Sinclair Lab. So FOSL at at dmandis .com. My team will order respond to that, get some information about you.

1:06:54Please don't use it as a email to communicate with me or David. That's not what its purpose is. If you're serious about this, go ahead and send an email there with your contact details and we'll respond. And what we talked about for those who join the Friendsist of Clare Lab, let's see what we said. But number one, we'll do a quarterly Zoom. I expect this will be a group of 10, 12, hopefully 20 people that will spend some time with you'll do personal Q &A with them. And we'll set up a dinner either at the abundance summit in March, every year in L .A. Or we'll set up a dinner at the Platinum, you know, our abundance Platinum longevity trip.

1:07:41Sound good? So far, yeah. Okay. Well, there's other things. Okay. What else? Well, I think that the friends who get to know me personally, like you have, we do spin out companies. There's these age reversal chemicals are going to be spun out soon. They're huge. Cosmetic, hair, skin. So friends at the sink level have, you know, burst right on really knowledge and a chance to get in. Get in as a senior. Share with me in that. Yeah. Yeah. I also think, uh, I've been lucky enough to have spin outs myself. So I'll also put in my $50 ,000. So we've got $100 ,000 so far guys. So let's do it. Yeah. The future is too important to not let it happen.

1:08:20You know, a lifetime. Yeah. Agreed. I mean, we hold two different futures in superposition. And we have to choose which one we want. Yeah. Let's not be in the universe where, you know, things don't happen. Let's make us get us into that universe where we're just thriving as a species. I love that. I love that. So please join me. Please join David. It'll be a blast. I'll get a chance to spend more time with you. I mean, this is a subject that just gives me such incredible hope. This is the most exciting time ever to be in life. And if you want more of it, we're going to make it happen right here right now.

1:08:58All right. And can't wait to see who joins us on the Bitcoin crypto and universe. So... Well, I just want to make a comment about crypto in general. I think we're in a new world. We have a currency that will exist for thousands of years and it's only going to go up. First of all, I want to talk about the people that own crypto, the ones that I know and Brian Armstrong is one of them. They have the power to do big things and they can come together as a community by either funding things or giving incentives to people to achieve greatness. The other thing is, think about this, that the currency is only going to go up and the longer you live, the more you're going to make, But in general, I think that, especially when it comes to Bitcoin, I think the people that own Bitcoin can really do great things with that.

1:09:43It's an amazing currency. I own some myself as well, which is what I'm going to use to donate here. And I've seen this incredible correlation between people who love longevity and people who love Bitcoin. For me, Bitcoin and Ethereum are my largest assets more than anything else. And I do believe that we're going to have a world where as we're living, you know, past a hundred, maybe hundreds of years, having some asset that doesn't like just vaporize and get taxed away to nothing is super important. Yeah, well, what's the killer of longevity assets? It's inflation. Yeah. And so the cryptocurrencies is a way to avoid that.

1:10:23And it's suddenly going to go up. You know, we can live a thousand years. We can go to other planets. We can own crypto. That's the future. And we all have that one thing in common right now, aging as a disease and a common biology to solve. We do. We'll stay healthy for longer, but ultimately we have to be able to reverse aging if we're going to make it for a long time. So while we work on it, let's stay healthy, but then let's just fund these research projects and make the future a reality. Yeah. David, I want to talk about another area, which, and then we're going to go to AMA questions. I put out a tweet, I'm going to be with David, what questions do you have?

1:11:00Like, so we picked the top 20 or so that we're provocative and fun. But before we go there, I want to talk about what your longevity protocols are. So what are you doing? I mean, honestly, you look great, dude. And I appreciate the fact that you're a poster child for this industry. Hey, thanks. Yeah. I went online and or at least my team did and found something published at nad .com. I'm not sure how real it is because I don't think it's they probably put it together from conversations you've had. I'll put the link in the show notes as well for folks if they want to see at least what was reported.

1:11:42But let's run through these and tell me what's real, what's not real. Okay, you want to see the list here? Yeah, sure. Okay. And what's the main thing? There's a laundry this year and I take like 80 supplements and meds a day. Yeah. Well, you know, I do advise people on their longevity. So they get an inside of look, but I'm happy to share some of the key things for everybody. I'm still on the standard stuff that was in, it's become standard. It wasn't standard when I published lifespan, but now it's become, you know, NMN has become a billion dollar industry now. Amazing. I mean, honestly, due to you and just to clarify things, you're not backing any of these supplement companies.

1:12:24In fact, they use your name and their likeness without your permission. Right. Yeah. Yeah. My lawyer has been a fair amount of time and my money on stopping that, but new new companies pop up all the time, especially overseas. But yeah, I don't, I don't currently sell anything. So the main things are, so let's start with the basics. Do what you do. So there's the sonners, there's the exercise. Weightlifting is important, especially for men, or Pilates for women, bit of weightlifting. And then eating is important too. Serena is a trained nutritionist and chef and longevity expert. She came in and changed my life to four years ago.

1:13:05I stopped eating a lot of meat. Have you gone vegan completely? No, no, 90%. What would you say? I said, it's 1995. Yeah. I eat out and sometimes I break the rules for celebration. Sure. But I want to enjoy life. But I'm definitely planned focused and and a few things happen when I switched to plants as my main diet I felt better. I could eat more which was great because I love food Yeah, and my mind cleared and that might have also been because I gave up alcohol almost all Yeah, so just another point. I have given up alcohol except for you know on a celebration Yeah, I noticed a difference. Yeah, I mean I'm so sensitive to alcohol.

1:13:44It just makes me sleepy and And you know, weight gain if you're if I'm if I'm drinking too much, but I used to have like a little bit of wine now Tastes of wine tonight is an exception. My deputy family the Reese family is having the bar mitzvah their son And so my friend is like I've got the best the best bottles of wine So I was okay. I'm gonna drink a glass of wine tonight. Well, you look like you're looking after your weight really well I know you've I think you've never looked so good But in terms of weight, gaining weight is a bad thing. It puts our bodies into abundance mode. I've talked before about abundance mode versus adversity mode.

1:14:22We can have abundance mode occasionally. You can eat a steak. You can eat a lot of our food. But for the majority of the time, you want to be in adversity mode. So that's why I try not to eat more than two meals a day, if I can, sometimes one. And the plants help, because the plants seem to signal also to the body. they've filled with polyphenols that also give the signal of adversity. GLP ones, let's just plug that in right here. What's the evidence right now? Your mind is a pro -launcheivity medication. Pretty good, actually. Certainly, if you're overweight, getting it weighed down, but in addition, some of like you and me would it have longevity benefits?

1:15:02I think if it's used judiciously, I wouldn't use it chronically because there are some side effects, including muscle, lospital, also some kidney and pancreas issues, potentially even blindness is a risk. The disease that, or the incident that we're going to treat next year with the age reversal is called blind. Yeah, so that's um, uh, non - ischemic, autoretic, non -autoretic ischemic optic neuropathy, nion. So that, the rates of that have doubled and tripled around the world because of these drugs. So it's not without risk. So you've got to be careful using these peptides. But I think as a way to turn the body into a more adversity mode, they're excellent.

1:15:44I have tried them not to lose weight, but just see how my blood work turned out. And I saw some improvements. I think with your doctor's advice and permission and. And there are many of these drugs at this point, right? Yeah. And they're getting easier to use. So there's an oral version now. I can see in the future that they'll be part of longevity programs. But again, I'm not endorsing them, I'm not saying you should definitely go do it. And I think one of the things that's important to note, and I just again want to reinforce, if you're using a GLP1 to lose weight, the challenge is you lose the weight, you also lose muscle.

1:16:25And then when you stop the GLP1, you just put on fat. Again, you don't put the muscle back on. But there's an easy solution, right? workout. Yeah, you've got to work it out. Some effort involved, but just, you know, some sit -ups, push -ups, and whatever. And use the GLP1 drug as a way to get into new habits, right? Getting you habits of not eating as much or going to a, you know, what meal do you miss if you're going to miss a meal? Right, first, breakfast. Yeah, and I have a late lunch. And the thing with GLP1s is, even if you were to just fast and stop eating as much. You are going to lose muscle mass.

1:17:01It's not just that the drugs are causing muscle loss. It's what happens when you don't eat as much. And so really you do have to keep the muscle mass up. And I wouldn't use testosterone alone to combat that muscle loss. It really is better to be working out to stop that. And clearly, you're a good example of that. NMN, what source do you use? What sources are out there? Because I remember when Tony Robins and I were writing our book Life Force. When we looked at this, a lot of the NMN sources were not reputable out there. And then, of course, a lot of companies have stopped putting NMN out for sale because of what's going on with Metrobiotec and the idea of having NMN become a medicine versus a supplement.

1:17:53So what give us some knowledge there? Well, the first is about NMN as a supplement on, can you trust it? And, you know, I'm not in the business of testing products. It's not what I do. But I do test NMN sources when I give it to mice. And we have a study that we're just revising showing NMN extends lifespan, mostly in female mice. But it did improve frailty and a lot of health -related things. So we do test NMN and we've tested a bunch of them and We find that there are things in there that you wouldn't want in there like endotoxin Which is highly inflammatory parts of bacteria and so if you're gonna If you publish a data No, I won't it's it's only We might publish it.

1:18:39I mean, it's super useful. Yeah, maybe you have we should do that. I mean some you know And somebody should be, well listen, you've made NMN household name. I guarantee, the number of people, well, whether you like it or not, because you talked about the value of this, you didn't do it to try and sell NMN. You did this because you're talking about its impact on increasing NAD levels in resellularity. And I haven't made any money off it. In fact, I've invested a lot of money in some critical trials. No, I mean, there's been like 30 million dollars worth of my money and others to do clinical trials to test a version of NMN in humans.

1:19:17It's cost me a lot to try and validate NMN as a molecule. One of the advantages, if metrobotac has a particular crystallized NMN that they're testing in a wide range of medical conditions, right? That's right. I don't see why they can't exist in the same universe that supplements, which are not under FDA approval usually, they're not prescribed by doctors, but there's an ultra -pure pharmaceutical grade crystalline stable form that has been shown to work that can be prescribed. That's been shown, even for fish oil, GSK, actually, our friends at GSK may have fish oil, and it's still available in the market.

1:19:59Yeah, and it's a pharmaceutical, it's a drug. Yeah, because of its purity. Yeah, Yeah, and so but I you know the reason I would use the Metro biotech NMN if and when it becomes approved as a drug is because I'm assured of quality and purity. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And then to get to the FDA thing, you know, I see on social media people accusing me of being the one to take off the market. That's absolutely not true. I think everybody should have access to it. Otherwise, why would I talk about it. I do think though that there should be some better regulation on how pure this stuff is because there was a study that showed that I think it was roughly half of them didn't have what was on the label.

1:20:39And it's a part of it. And it degrades over time. Yeah, exactly. And then I'm crystalline form. Exactly. But what happened? I'll explain what actually happened. So Metrobiotic, it's not my company. I've invested in it and there's a chairman and a board. And so they made the decision that they would support the FDA looking at an amendment as a supplement. And there's a law that says if you're using a molecule in clinical trials, it shouldn't be sold as a supplement to protect the $30 million investment that the people are putting in. I believe I'm on record. I'll say here that I was not in favor of that I didn't want Metro Biotech to get involved with the FDA that was not my decision, but I don't run that company.

1:21:27There are very few companies that I actually have 100 % control over, but I am learning that it's better to control the company that you're the figurehead of. But in this case, I couldn't stop that. But I think where we're at now is that there's some gray zone about. I mean, I'm seeing NMN for sale. Yeah, let me clarify something. So ultimately what you're trying to do is raise your intracilar NAD plus levels or NAD levels. That's the end goal. And the Sir Tuan's need that NAD work. It's the powerhouse. Yeah. So NMN can cross the cell membrane and inside the cell gets converted to NAD. Correct?

1:22:09Yeah, you know, academics will argue over everything. I don't think it's still 100 % agreed upon as to how NAD is made from NMN. There's some work by Shinemi at Washington University that there's a transporter even high up in the gut that absorbs it into cells and through the gut membrane. But there are people who say, oh, NMN has to be broken down first before it gets into NAD. And then there's NR, Nikitin and my Rob aside, which is what's used to make NMN in the cell. Right. And so you have this sequence. So some people are arguing that you should take NR. Some people are going to take NMN. Other folks are doing, you know, NAD IVs.

1:22:51And am I wrong in believing that an NAD IV is not getting into your cell? Oh, I think that NAD drips will raise the intracellular NAD probably because it gets broken down and then gets reabsorbed. Yeah, but But the unfortunate thing with NAD drips, even though they're very popular, is that we still rely on anecdotal evidence that they do something. And I would love to see some more studies on that. But what I can say about oral NMN, we have spent money studying that. And we've, when I say we, the scientists that conducted the study and I was one of the middle authors on that, have shown that NMN in small groups of people improves blood pressure and cholesterol and lipids and even seems like it works on strength and endurance.

1:23:38So in terms of living up to what we saw in mice, it is looking promising. And there are at least five clinical trials at Metrobiotect now looking at whether it's efficacious in a disease state. Our time is kidney function. It's all on the website. And so with five and hopefully six shots on goal, the idea is that one of those will work. The other thing that's interesting is there's a new molecule that they saw that so m a b 626 was the old molecule Yeah, 626 is my birthday by the way That's where it came from and then 725 almost happy birthday So 725 is the new molecule and maybe 725 and this is the of Anthony survey my great colleague who passed away during COVID And he was at Cornell.

1:24:24We miss him dearly. And so that hopefully if that makes it onto the market it'll it'll be his legacy. Nice. A quick aside, you probably heard me speaking about founton life before. And you're probably wishing, Peter, would you please stop talking about founton life? And the answer is no. I wouldn't, because genuinely we're living through a healthcare crisis. You may not know this, but 70 % of heart attacks have no preceding, no pain, no shortness and breath. And half of those people with a heart attack never wake up. You don't feel cancer until stage three or stage four, until it's too late. But we have all the technology required to detect and prevent these diseases early at scale.

1:25:02That's why a group of us, including Tony Robbins, Bill Cap and Bob Hourry, founded Fountain Life, a one -stop center to help people understand what's going on inside their bodies before it's too late, and to gain access to the therapeutics to give them decades of extra health span. Learn more about what's going on inside your body from Fountain Life. Go to FountainLife .com slash Peter. And tell them Peter sent you. Okay, back to the episode. All right, let's run down a few of these. So, uh, Faisatin, Lepoic acid, uh, EPA, DHA, Elletoring, uh, comments on those. Um, yeah, I mean, Faisatin is a molecule we actually first discovered to be a longevity molecule before it was known as a, uh, Centolytic.

1:25:48Yes. Um, Faisatin and Corsatin together. Although the, the, the people that now talk about Faisatin just ignore our research, but that's how is that the Australian pronunciation of it? What's it in versus vice it in? Yeah, I think it doesn't matter what you say if I'm a T. I .n. But we showed the seat in is a sir to an activator just like was virtual and so I think it might be doing both things is to either calm down or kill innocent cells at high doses and at low doses it activates the sir to and enzyme which is what we want, because I think of any ideas, the gas or the petrol for the enzyme, and then the accelerator pedal are these polyphenols, like, physic and nirazertral, and together they have a double whammy of benefit.

1:26:34Lopoic acid, I did a PhD on that when I was in Australia. I've always liked it. And then I started taking it about 15 years ago when I was introduced to one of my heroes, Denham Harman, who came up with the free radical theory of aging, and he was still in the lab at 92. And I said, what's your theory? What's your secret? And he said it's alpha -lipporeg acid. But the free radical theory of aging has really been kind of disproven, hasn't it? Yes, but I still admired him for being a lab at 90. Sure, but I mean, for those people who are thinking, oh, I need to be dealing with free radicals, that appears not to be one of the primary reasons of aging.

1:27:16Well, indirectly it is because we know DNA breaks, organic, accelerate aging and free radicals can damage DNA. So, but it's not the the holy grail. It's taking antioxidants doesn't extend the lifespan of animals very much. Okay. You mentioned Altaurine just had a paper published on it. Yeah, just came out in science. Ruffael de Cabo is a very good friend of mine for 25 years. And he was the one that just showed that Altaurine levels don't decline apparently in humans or monkeys are at mice. I just like, you know, I started a year ago because of all the news about it, you know, it's yeah. And now, now it doesn't look as promising.

1:27:58Put it that way. And so I would say it's not going to hurt you. But I think there's less likelihood that it's going to extend your lifespan. By the way, NMN 1 gram. That's what I take. Is there any, if you do two grams or three grams, is there a problem with going more than a gram that you know of? Well, I'm just curious. Well, I always want to have in the bunch of supplements. So I'm like, yeah, well, it's published that both one gram and two gram have benefits. And that one gram will double your NAD and two grams will roughly triple it on average. But I, in my personal opinion now, I don't think it makes sense to go any higher.

1:28:38Your body will just beat out anyway. And there's no point taking the risk. But I know one gram and two grams seem to be safe in short term human clinical trials. Got it. We've talked about resveratrol, spermingine, vitamin D, vitamin K. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Lodos aspirin. Still, yes. Okay. And that's interesting, because a lot of people have heard, at least through the great vine that aspirin shouldn't be taken. So here's the deal. And when, you know, I actually read the papers, I don't just read, would, are, when you go going to the literature, the reason that doctors are mostly against aspirin these days is that they're balancing the risk reward.

1:29:21Now the reward is prevention of clots and cardiovascular risk. Now the risk is that you get stomach bleeding. And based on the numbers, it wasn't clear if it was worth taking aspirin with the risk. But that's for the average human. And there is no such thing as an average human. The really medicine should be breaking it down is to the U -peater what's good for you. Do you want an aspirin or not? And, and by the way, I, everything we've spoken about so far, I do take, including aspirin. 81 milligrams a day. 81 milligrams, right? Maybe aspirin. So take a coded one. Yeah, I do. Yep. So that reduces the risk of any stomach issues.

1:29:58But here's the thing that, that there are people at risk of cardiovascular disease. And then it does make sense for them to take an aspirin. It makes perfect sense for me to take it because I genetically have high levels of L .P. Little L .A. Yeah, I do too. By the way, I'm so excited about the new drug that's coming out for L .P. Little L .A. Yeah, it looks promising. Yeah, just it's in phase three. It should be coming out in like the next 12 months. Yeah. I mean, because right now, you know, there's very little it moves and it'll there. Yeah, it's really hard to bring it down. I know from experience.

1:30:27Yeah, you and I are the same boat. Try methylglycein. I don't take that. Either do I. No, okay. I've, there's this unfounded claim that NMN and NAD boosters to plead your methods and that you need to take this to supplement it. That's just based on wild speculation. There's no evidence from anything we've done that that's true. So I stopped taking midformin. Are you on it still? Occasionally. Occasionally. I'm on burberine instead. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. Now I've found that midformin was really rough on my stomach and the old ride I get I find it's rougher. but burbering seems to be great. So I do that.

1:31:05I stopped metformin mostly for the focus on muscle growth. Yeah, there's that, but also I want to speak about that. Please. Because I find that most people don't read the papers. And if you do, what you see is that this claim, even from some doctors who talk about this, is that it blunts muscle growth. And when you actually dive into the data, you see that the graph was misrepresented. And it... Wow. Guilty is charged. Yeah. Well, the one thing you should never do as a scientist is cut the Y -axis off and exaggerate the difference. But that's what they did. It's only a five percent. Why? It just looks better.

1:31:44Huh. All right, let's go to the next one, Rathamaiasin. So, huge claims... I mean, many of the longevity experts said, okay, there's one drug that probably has longevity impact, it's ripamysin. And, you know, I've been tracking that. I've been reading on it. And it's enough up and down where I stop taking rap mice. And I have a very low senile cell count. How about you? What do you think about rap mice? I'm less excited about it. Yeah. It was the darling because it works really well on in bright animals and seemingly might even work in dogs. But in humans there was a study that came out there was probably six months ago that compared the effect on the epigenetic age of people in different clinical trials.

1:32:38And while some things worked really well like Clark restriction, what else was important, being a carbos worked really well, met Foreman, looked better than I I thought it would. Rapa Mison had no effect on the age of the epigenum. And so that combined with the known potential risks of down regulating the immune system. Let me explain later why I think that that's bad. I decided only to take it rarely. What occasion would you take it on? I'd probably take it four times a year. So it just pulsed. Yeah, and I'm monitoring myself. So I know if it has benefits or not. And I do see some. Are you monitoring your immune system?

1:33:17You're monitoring more? Everything. Yeah, I'm honored to my immune system. I'm counting the cells that I have the different types and cytokines and inflammatory cytokines and I want to keep those as low as possible. Keep down inflammation Inflammaging. Um, so I want to talk about why downregulating your immune system might be bad. Yes. Now you want to downregulate your inflammation But you want to have really active immune system when it comes to cancer and viruses And those two things are real risks as we get older. Sure. There are endogenous viruses that come out like CMV. And as CMV is is ponacious.

1:33:52It's in it's you know it's an epidemic out there. I mean one thing that people don't realize is there's something called immuno exhaustion right where you're immune system is fighting all these battles against herpes against CMV against I mean different viruses do you think are endemic in the human being? I think it's it's approaching a thousand now when you do deep sequencing. Incredible. And if they're fighting those viruses, your innate system is not there to fight cancer. Yes, there's that. And the other issue is that these viruses like CMV, they lead to what our immune disorders, potentially like CMV is linked to multiple sclerosis now.

1:34:33Interesting. And so you do not want CMV circulating. And that for that reason, I don't want and chronic downregulation of my mean system. Yeah, yeah, that's important to note. Okay, let's jump into a few other elements here. So thank you for that. Is there anything else that we didn't talk about that's high in your supplement med list? Oh, there's lots of it. Let's leave that for the friends. So maybe the friends of Sinclair Lab will have it and deeper dive and book two. And book two. Okay, by the way, for those who are fans of David's first book, Life Span, which I probably recommend more than my books.

1:35:10His next one coming out in 2026 is called Life Span Survival. So I can't wait. All right. So are there any special supplements or additions for women that you want to call out? Oh, gee. Well, that's a whole separate category. and Serena, my partner is an expert in that. I usually defer to her, and I don't want to claim to be an expert on female hormone therapy. But I do believe that hormone therapy is anti -aging. We see that in the literature. And also there are some ways to delay menopause and perhaps even reverse it. And I talk about that in my book as well. So I think mostly for women it's hormonal, but there's other things like iron protein that they need certain times of the month as well.

1:35:56Do you know Jennifer Garrison at the box? Sure. Yeah, so Jennifer is another place that Tony and I have supported her research. And she put forward, she was at ex -price visioneering last October, and that's where we compete onto all these ex -price ideas and her work in what was being called the double ex -price for women's longevity and particularly ovarian longevity won the competition. So in the middle of designing that ex -price, which is, which will be super cool. Well, she's great. I have a superstar in my lab who, uh, either way, it needs our support. Maria, uh, she's a, she's such a superstar.

1:36:38This morning she gave lab meetings. So our lab meetings go for three hours on Friday mornings. And she outlined her project to use these age reversal, uh, breakthroughs on women's fertility. Well, we need to get her either competing for the prize or helping to design the prize. for sure. Yeah, she's also by the way using menstrual fluid as a biological clock and diagnostic factor, which is a great idea. Amazing. So, sauna, do you sauna? As much as I can. Yeah, you know, I just purchased something called the healing sauna. It is a deep infrared sauna. It's relatively relatively small about, you know, about yay big.

1:37:20It's got a chair in the middle. And it zips up around you with your head sticking out the top and you have two arms slots. So I get in the morning, I'm on my computer doing my email. And I'm like, you know, in about 30 minutes, I get a great sweat. And you don't want to sweat too much. You want to sweat enough to get the toxins out, but not so much that you start losing other vital. Right, and turn on the heat shock proteins in your skin and maybe deeper. Yeah, that's all important. And the science for a sauna now is very futile. It is. It's a couple of thousand dollars for this thing, and it fits anywhere.

1:37:57So if you want to increase your, so it's super easy, and I actually, I love it. I might look into that, because often the problem is we don't have space in our houses. So this is actually small. It is. It's like the size of this table. It's no bigger. And it collapses. and again, you sit in a folding chair inside and the elements are inside and you basically zip this thing around your neck. It's got a frame and it works. Does it get hard enough? Yeah, I get, I mean, I get a really great sweat going in 30 minutes. It's not like instantly like 10 minutes, but I enjoy my 30 minutes. I'm meditating or I'm watching a video, listen to a book.

1:38:38What's it called again? It's called Healing Sonnet. Healing Sonnet. Yeah. I think you're just healing sonnet .com. Okay, so one big question is fasting and fasting mimicking diet. So when I looked into it, there was a lot of confusion about whether fasting actually moved the needle for humans. What do you think about it? I know a lot about it. In particular, I was just recording my next podcast and it is on fasting and cloud restriction. And there's 80 pages of notes. show notes. So yeah, so you have to do fasting the right way. There's with all these diets, if you do it the wrong way, it can harm you, right?

1:39:20But you need to be educated. You need to make sure you're not overdoing it and you're supplying yourself with enough vitamins, minerals and protein. And so yeah, I do it, but I do it in a scientific way, and that's part of the challenge. If you don't do it without having a regular blood test at least once every few months, I think, you know, it's probably, it's somewhat risky, but in general, fasting has been shown for forever, you know, since humans were. Sure. In fact, religions have built in fasting into their, you know, the annual clock. Yeah. So I still believe in the science of fasting and it just has to be done the right way.

1:39:58And actually, there are some papers that show that if you do a vegan diet, this is just separate. but in a good example, a vegan unhealthy diet will make you live shorter, but a vegan healthy diet will make you live longer. You just got to make sure you're eating the right things. And the same with fasting, you've got a time it with your circadian rhythms, you've got to eat the right food at the right time. You can't just eat french fries once a day and hope that's going to make you live longer. So I'm very vocal about the notion that sugar is a poison. Me too. I regard it as a poison. Yeah. I just want to echo, I mean, so a couple of data points here, right?

1:40:34We are eating in our diet today. If you look at the numbers, on the order of 10 times more sugar than we did a couple hundred years ago. And one of the things we just are getting ready to publish this data found life, right? So everybody coming through found life, we upload them and get 200 gigabytes of data. It's like one of the most complete data uploads you can possibly do in five hours, full body MRI, brain, brain vasculature, coronary CT looking for soft plaque, not calcified plaque. Soft plaque is what kills you these days. If you have a high calcium score, it doesn't mean much unless the calcium is blocking your coronary artery.

1:41:13If it's cement on the side of the walls, it's stable. But it's the soft plaque that could evulse in the middle of the night, block your artery and you don't wake up. We do low dose lung CT. we do Dexascan, Metabolomics, 140 blood biomarkers, your gut microbiome, retinal scan, skin scan, all of that. When am I gonna get it, scan? Dude, please come, please. Are you just teasing me? No, I'm serious, no, please come. I'd love to try. And as my guest, we're opening up LA here in the first quarter of 26. And of course, we're operational in Dallas today. We're opening up Houston before the end of this year.

1:41:54We have New York going or Lando and Naples going and opening up Miami. So we've got congratulations. Thank you. Really. Really. I remember when you were just talking about it. We looked at what correlates highest with heart disease. And it wasn't LPLLA or triglycerides or LDL or HDL. Well, it was your hemoglobin they wanted to see. And I mean, it's like you can control that. Well, you can. And it starts with good diet and lifestyle and exercise for sure. But the drugs now that are available, you can either prevent the absorption with a carboce, you can pee it out with this DLT2 inhibitors. You can take metformin or boudrein.

1:42:41And then there's others. And so yeah, if you've got a good physician, you should be able to control your blood glucose these days. Of course, the GLP ones, you shouldn't forget. It's crazy. Okay. One or two more subjects, someone going to the AMA. We have so many fans of yours that have written out questions here. I just got back from Hong Kong. And one of the things that I was speaking about there was the notion that a breakthrough through in China, works in Chicago, a breakthrough in Boston, works in Beijing, we all share, all a billion of us share the same fundamentals of longevity. And so unlike AI, which is a battle, sort of winner take all, the idea of being able to give people longevity is something that is arising tied for everybody.

1:43:36I'm curious where, So when I run my platinum longevity trips, we're currently doing them one year on even years we're in San Francisco and San Diego, which is sort of a cluster for longevity. And then on odd years like this year, we'll be visiting you and George and a number of other incredible people in Boston, Cambridge and Dean, cameins in New Hampshire, which is another cluster if you would. What's going on in the rest of the world? What's hot? Where are the clusters of longevity work? Well, there are nations that have stood up and said, we're going to invest in this. And so in Asia, it's Singapore, in the Middle East, pretty much all the countries, but Saudi Arabia, UAE, and now Qatar are big on longevity.

1:44:29And then it's just distant, third and fourth and fifth. The Western world is not really getting into it besides the US. It's a little bit in the UK, a little bit in Australia, but other than that it's just pockets of really good labs but not really in industry yet. I wish that in the same way we just saw a couple of trillion dollars put into AI by the Middle East that they would get longevity religion. I mean, it's, you know, and start pouring trillions into into this space. And I hope we can get there. Yeah. I hope we can get there because I do fundamentally believe this is, you know, you've spoken about this.

1:45:13You've been really the first person to speak out that aging is a disease that when we're able to cure and reverse this, it is going to uplift every society. And God knows that South Korea, Japan, China, Italy, most of Western Europe need longevity. They're disappearing as nations. Yeah. Well, that's the other thing. It used to be that we're going to overcrowd the planet if we are slow down aging, but we need those, need the current existing people to stay healthy in productive because they're running out of people. Like, we see, are we seeing good work coming out of, uh, out of China as an area?

1:45:54Do you know that? Are there scientists? I'm just, I'm curious what's going on there. They are more than a decade behind the US right now, but we're seating to them right now. We're, you know, we're cutting our science by more than half and, yeah, oh my god, all that stuff. So I think kind of is laughing all the way to, uh, to the IP patent office. And we really risk our lead in this area. And while AI is neck and neck, we have a big lead in longevity, but we could lose that. Yeah, for sure. All right, let's jump into questions from your fans. All right. So the first one was what role is AI playing in your search to reverse aging?

1:46:32We heard about that already. A very big role. Yeah. When did it start becoming a big role in your lab? We started using it about three years ago, but now we don't go a day without it. And think about this, what we do now in two months would have taken thousands of years to do. You can say it, but just let that sink in. The predictions that I made five years ago are out the window because of AI. Now I'm much more optimistic. So the new book is going to update those predictions. Exactly. Yes. OK. Fantastic. At Safiya 3000 says, is there a role for epigenetic reprogramming to end ovarian aging and restore ovarian function?

1:47:20The Maria will answer that in my lab PhD student. So yes, we do believe that we can reverse ovarian aging. We already were the first group with our Australian offshoot to show that you can reverse infertility in old mice. That was a shocker because people said, oh, mammals run out of eggs, right? But we took 16 -month old mice, which had become infertile six months earlier and reversed them and made them produce pops again. Wow. I know it's possible, even with NMN, it worked. Wow. So we're going to try the even better technology, the stronger technology, the epigenetic reprogramming. Incredible.

1:47:58And, you know, most men are very ignorant about ovarian aging and yeah, I mean just to pass along some facts for folks, something like only five or six species on the planet go through menopause. You know, it's three species of whales, a norwall, and humans go, which is crazy. You'd imagine everybody does, but no, that's not the case. And if you're a guy, the age at which your sister went through menopause actually correlates with how long you'll live. Right. It's really a good indicator of longevity. Fascinating. All right. At Glenn Orgin asks, how close are we to making partial cellular reprogramming safe and scalable for human use?

1:48:46What's your current stance on NAD plus boosters? Are NMN, NR, and IV NAD plus still viable? Or is there a next evolutionary evolution emerging? Is gene therapy still your most promising delivery method for Yamanaka's? We've sort of covered many of those. I don't know if you want to add anything on there. That was a very long question. But testing your memory. Yeah, it really is. I think what we're very close will go into our first humans hopefully by this time next year we might know if that works. From then on it's probably a year or two before we do whole body rejuvenation. That works. Imagine.

1:49:23I mean, it feels like it's science fiction. It feels like it's the future. It's like we're the Star Trek universe with AI at this level and talking about whole body rejuvenation. I mean, what an extraordinary time to be alive. It is. It is the future. The future looks so bright. We have to make it happen. Yeah, we absolutely have to. So at ETHOR, our nods ask, when can we expect results on human to see human trials. This is the life bioscience is work. Studying in January. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. At Nixon, uh, wants to know when is your next book coming out? Uh, we shared that. So it's 2026 and it's called life span survival.

1:50:15I'll tell you what it's about. Please. Yeah. I love that. So so life span was more of a textbook. It was why do we age? Yeah. And how does this all work? And what will happen to the planet when this happens, book two is really answering all the questions that I've been getting since. And it's so think of life span to the book as the guide book. How do we optimize our bodies, looking at our evolution, the genes that we all carry, how do we individualize our lifestyle supplements, medicines to maximize our longevity? And then what do we do for the next 10, 20 years going forward? And I look at it from the individual perspective at the molecular level all the way through a society.

1:50:54Fantastic. At Dana Brilliant, right, what's your exercise routine? How much protein do you eat? Okay. Her name was brilliant. I like that. Yeah. So the routine is whenever I can, I get to the gym and often I'm on planes. So it's hard to work out on planes. But the, I think it's very important a few times a week to get to the gym or at least at home have something, some weights you can lift and then walk around on a treadmill, moving, moving, moving, and keeping, especially after the age of 50, you've got to keep lifting weights otherwise you're going to lose it. Smoking is the new, I mean, sitting as a new smoking is, I like to say.

1:51:32And for me, the tricks are, I have a, you know, a stationary bike. I take my Zoom meetings on my stationary bike. It works well. Yeah. So if you've ever been on a Zoom meeting with me, it looks like I'm in space because I'm standing, but I'm moving all the time. And so yeah, I don't sit down during the day. I try not to at least. So that's one trick. Protein, I eat a lot of protein, but it's mostly plant -based. Sure. So, you know, for me, I put on 10 pounds of muscle mass about two years, you got 18 months ago, and my job is to keep it on now. And it was creatin. Do you take creatin as a supplement?

1:52:09No, but I'm considering it. Yeah, I mean, it looks like all upside, no downside for me. So I do five grams of creatin and it was one you know one gram of protein per pound of body weight. And there's a lot of debate on how much protein. Our friend down the street here is at UCLA is not liking so much protein. Well I tend to - Walter Longo. Yeah, there's Walter. And also Dudley Lamming is my student he's not a professor and he's done some of the most work on looking at amino acids and how they affect longevity. And there are some really good amino acids and there are some that will reduce your lifespan.

1:52:50And there are what's called what's called branch chaining amino acids, loosey and I saluey and veiling, that are the bad ones and you get a lot of that from meat. So I try not to eat a lot of meat. Plants have less of these amino acids. What's your favorite protein source from plants? Oh lentils. love lentils, love lentils. Yes. Okay. Aoko, Nova 1 asks, Dr. Davidson Claire, what single experiment would you definitely falsify your epigenetic noise? Okay. What experiment would falsify your epigenetic noise theory of aging? Is there something that if you ran it would disprove that theory? Oh, yeah.

1:53:29It's easy to disprove it theory. It's much harder to prove it. But lots of things could disprove it. For example, the ice mice, if we had accelerated the epigenome aging, so changing the methylation powder and the gene expression and those mice were normal and didn't look old, then I would have thrown out the theory. But they did look old. And that was the reason that I thought it's likely to be true because the chances that it would fail were 99%, but that 1 % it worked. Wow. Alright, at good to think with, asks, what AI advancement would be the most useful for your research? Oh, that's great.

1:54:09I would love if AI could tell me who the observer is, where the observer is. We've been working on that, but I would love it if they said, we just analyzed all the world's data and it's got to be this result. That would help. That's my dream is before I die to figure out how does the cell rejuvenate. Juvenators and have that have that have the AI published the paper for you as well. Well, that's almost doable now. Yeah. But I think that also being able to do drug development even better than we do now. So to be able to say this one molecule is your candidate for going into humans would be amazing.

1:54:45We're not there yet. You know, it says top 100 but going down to one and like you said, having a digital twin and being able to simulate the interaction with all the proteins in the body and say, Okay, that one's probably going to be toxic, but this one will work. That would be, we're probably only a few years away from that. And eventually you'll just do it on your phone. We'll talk about, oh, let's cure whatever disease on your phone. By the time you get home, it's told you how to do that. That's, yeah, I love that. I have a question that pops in mind here. There's a crazy statistic about the non -reproducibility of research data.

1:55:21I mean, is it like half of the research out there? I'm not sure if it's that high, but can't be reproduced. Well, what's going on there? Yeah, that number is an exaggeration. Okay. We sometimes struggle to reproduce people's data, and it's because you're using a different cell line, different water supply, different handler, the mice don't behave the same way. So it's not that the people are faking it, it's more that science is complicated and variable, it depends on where and how you do it. And some labs rejoice in disproving things. I don't do that. I always assume I'm the one that it's not working, the reason it's not working.

1:55:56But there are labs that thrive on not reproducing people's data and it's super easy to not reproduce someone's result. I could easily do it, it's changed one thing, it's not going to work. So there's that category. But of course there's a lot of research that isn't done rigorously like this touring paper. It might have been due to just inherent variability taking one time point. But when you look over the lifespan of longitudinal, the same humans, you do see it. So there are sometimes there's some bad science, but I think that number is exaggerated. I'm very happy to say that none of our papers have ever been disproved or had to be retracted or changed their conclusions.

1:56:29I stand behind my scientific record, and we work really hard to make sure that everything we do is very reproducible. In fact, we don't publish something unless our lab and another lab can reproduce it. That's super high standards. Okay. Hey, at Robert ZX writes, what one area do you want to see more innovative startups tackling? Is there something that... In longevity or... I assume so in the biotech longevity world is... I would love more labs to be working on finding new ways to reverse aging. Right now we have pre genes that we know work. That's our technology and we have some small molecules working on.

1:57:10But then it's, you know, it's all white space for people to get into. We do have some competition, right? We've got altos and the others. But I think that this area is similar to AI. There's just that there's so much that can be done. And it's not like one company is going to win everything. If you're talking about potentially being able to treat end or cure most diseases, you could have hundreds of companies being very successful in this area. And I would like to see more jump in. One of our mutual friends, Dr. Zeverankov from Encyclical Medicine, has built an amazing lab that is AI and robotic driven.

1:57:51So the AI proposes the experiment, the robots run the experiment overnight, get the data, iterate on the theory and so forth. Does anything like that exist in Boston right now? I'm not aware of it. But that sounds... That's the future for sure. Yeah. Alex is onto it. Yeah, I think that humans will just play a minor supervisory role in the future of drug development. Now, right now we humans are more creative than AI. We can imagine things that AI cannot, but that is only a few years from mobbing, superseded by AI that can have an imagination just like ours. I, by the way, actually, I believe that we're going to see consciousness in these machines.

1:58:33I just tweeted out, because I just finished listening to a book about the evolution of intelligence. Max Bennett, I think, is the author. And it's a great book. And he talks about how we evolved our intelligence. And it starts with language, by the way, which now we're doing LLM. So early stages of human evolution over the last million years. But there's not that many steps that between once you've to ask on my family and I was looking for a book to read. I think you just found it for me. You remember the title of it? I think it is the evolution of intelligence. Fantastic. Oh, it might be a brief history of intelligence.

1:59:14Every day I get the strangest compliment. Someone will stop me and say, Peter, you have such nice skin. Honestly, I never thought I'd hear that from anyone. And honestly, I can't take the full credit. All I do is use something called one skin OS one twice a day every day. The company is built by four brilliant PhD women who identified a peptide that effectively reverses the age of your skin. I love it. And again, I use this twice a day every day. You can go to oneskin .co and write Peter at checkout for discount on the same product I use. That's oneskin .co and use the code Peter at checkout. All right, back to the episode.

1:59:53Jared, uh, Michaels writes, when will poor people be able to extend their lifespan? Yeah. So one of the things that we get critique on all the time is the expectation that it's going to be super expensive. And it is initially the gene therapy is not cheap. But as I've said today, we're working on making it as cheap as possible. I could see it being a dollar or less a dose eventually. Well, I mean, by the way, patents run out. So even if the company recoups its money, it'll eventually be like aspirin. I mean, you know, Moderna's COVID vaccine was between $1 or $2 a dose when you're providing something to a billion people gets really cheap.

2:00:36Yeah, and actually based on what my lab is doing now, I see no reason why, for a few cents a day, everybody could afford a longevity pill. Yeah, I mean, it's a beautiful vision. All right, let's see. V or Vladimir, Adelnor asks, what is the difference between the current longevity metrics and actually being young? I can at age 22, going and getting a fight, get drunk, doing overnight while still operating many high skill work at perfection, whereas longevity folks can't do any of that. We can? I don't know. I feel like I can do anything like that. But listen, I'm not, I'm not going to put all Niders like I did in my 20s.

2:01:20Yeah. Right. Well, our organs are not optimized still. They're gene expression. So the epigenum has degraded. You and I have lost some of that information. So our liver cells are not pristine anymore. They are behaving a little bit more like a nerve cell or a skin cell. They're more like a mullange of cells. So we need to reboot them so that they know how to be perfectly liver cells again. So that's why I think you and I cannot do an all nighter now and get away with it. But that doesn't mean we can. I mean, I now look at an old person, I don't see them as an old person, I just see someone who needs a reboot.

2:01:54I love that. I love that. Hey you, my reboot can come on over here. All right, at Jake, Kingsley says, what are the second and third order effects once aging has been cured? does life have more meaning before it because it's finite? So this is, it gets in the philosophical conversation here and I love your thoughts in this. I definitely have opinions, please. We may share them. I am not enjoying this conversation because I'm worried about dying. I'm enjoying it because the moment is fantastic. And I don't think if the fact that I'm gonna die one day makes this any more enjoyable. I believe every day is a joy, it's a gift, and you make the most of it.

2:02:39And whether I'm gonna live 80, 200, 400 years, I'm gonna enjoy this moment just as much. You know, I remind people, listen, the average age for most of human history was like 30. Are you enjoying life now less because we've increased it two and a half for threefold? I don't think so. I'm having a blast. I want to see as much of it as I can. You know, the impact of AI on purpose is going to be interesting. I think that that's something important to do in this world of extraordinary abundance and cognitive superpowers. Can we continue to keep ourselves engaged and excited about the future? There is another thing.

2:03:24When I have my longevity platinum trip, one of the first exercises I do with people is I say, okay, I want you right down the piece of paper, what you would do with 20 extra healthy years, right? Right down. And most people can, most people can sort of think about 20 extra healthy years. Now I say, well, you do with 50 extra healthy years. And people's minds start to break. It becomes much more difficult for them to do that. What would you do with 50 years? Well, what would I do? Yeah. I'd keep researching and get us into new places. I had somebody ask me once, why don't I work on climate change?

2:04:02And I figure if we soul of aging, that was work, something else. I mean, I love research. I love knowing things for the first time in human history. I'll keep doing sciences, science for as long as I am funded and can do it. I love life too. It's just, it's so much better than the alternative. If you look at my father, you know, I didn't expect my father to live beyond 80, nor did he, by the way. And he is loving life like you wouldn't believe. He's out every night with different people and a lot of them are good friends and women and they younger than him. It turns out when you're 85, 86. Most people are younger than you.

2:04:40There's that and if you're a man you're you're there's not a lot of competition at that age. But yeah you know look at him you know he would not say I wish I died at 80 like some people say he wants every day and he wouldn't mind another 20 years. I think what we may have to do is society is do what Sweden did, which is they recently pegged their longevity to their retirement age. And so as longevity goes up, you work longer. It makes sense. You can't just sit around drinking cocktails. Yeah, and we'll have a revolt when that happens, but it makes sense. But it'll slowly in chop. Let's say longevity goes up by a year in the country you work for next year.

2:05:19Again, what's the alternative? George's die, you know? But I I think again, if you feel great, if you've got the energy, if you've got the cognitive clarity, if you've got the mobility, right, you're going to want to do stuff. Yeah. And maybe there's a world where we've got AI and Android's where we don't have to work for us. We have some version of UBI, but health is still going to be the most valuable asset we have. Yeah. All right. So, second and third order effects, one other thing that people ask is, oh my God, over population of the planet from people living longer. And of course, I think everybody listening to hearing the moonshots knows the numbers here, right?

2:05:56We're the replacement, a placement number of children per family is 2 .1. Almost every country on the planet is below that. Some dramatically, right? South Korea is like 0 .7 children per family. Japan is not far from that. Italy is evaporating most of, most of Europe. You know, the US is the economy is a screwed by the way unless they do something. Well longevity is critical and Robotics and AI are gonna be critical and somehow incentivizing people to build family. I think it's critical Yeah, or extend the fertility age of women. Yes, a lot of women these days leave it till too late Yeah, I mean, it's not fair to them.

2:06:40You know, I had kids at 50 I'm 64 now. You're a young man. You're 64. Yeah. You're looking great. Thank you. I feel great. And my kids are 50 and I keep on telling you, yes, when you're 50, I'll be 100 and I'll still kick your butt. Yeah. Well, I think we men, we tend to take it for granted that we can be fertile and fit for most of our lifespan, but women, it's not fair. And they sometimes these careers take 40 years. as a scientist, you're not mature until you're 40. And Hollywood paints all these pictures of women in their 40s, having kids. And that's a struggle. That is struggle and it's through in vitro fertilization or egg donors and it just is not communicated.

2:07:28And after 30, it's a precipitous drop in fertility. So if you're a woman in your 20s, look at those numbers and realize that after 30, it's going to go down dramatically and try to make life's plan until we figure out a solution. freeze eggs. Is that yes? I'm pretty specialized eggs if you can. And follow these protocols. It's every indication that we can delay infertility by delaying aging. Yeah. Right. A mad scientist asks, if aging is fixed and we all live for 500 years, what will happen next? What are all of the pros and cons of life past 150 years of age? I, you know, listen, I revert to Star Trek.

2:08:11It's like, there's a lot of universe out there. I just want to see it all. I also imagine, you know, uploading. I think we'll get there. We just mapped the Connecto Movedra Safala. Did you see that work? Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. And I had on stage at my abundance summit last year, a gentleman, Michael Andreg, who is working on mapping a mouse, and he wants to, he believes the technology now exists is to map a human brain fully uploaded. The problem is it's destructive in process. Yeah. That's a slight downside. I'm gonna have my AI up on the cloud over the speakers that will say, hey Peter, you've successfully uploaded, you can kill yourselves now.

2:08:55I'm like, yeah, there's a good black matter episode on that. I know, listen, I'll hit this for a second. I am pissed off at Blackmer. I'm pissed off at Hollywood because we humans need a positive vision of the future to aim for. You know, we need a story that is compelling and abundant and hopeful. And we don't have many of those. I mean, Star Trek was the one that really lit me on fire. We need more of those. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And especially when it comes to longevity, it's usually, Oh, something's going horribly wrong. Yes. Yeah, exactly. At Sharon Banks says, maybe ask about Lungelleby's economic impact.

2:09:43Keep it insightful. So I want to drill down more into the Harvard London School of Business Oxford paper, because I want to understand how we get to tens of trillions of dollars from one year of additional healthy life. because that's what it's saying. Yeah. I mean, the global economy is $110 trillion. Was this for the US? So it was for the globe, do you remember? It was just US for one year extra. It's the value to the economy. And the value is the keyword. The value is how much people willing to pay. It's called the willingness to pay WTP. And the way economists use this number is they say, what's it worth to you to have an extra year of life.

2:10:33And the reason that the number balloons out astronomically is that there's a positive feedback is that for every extra year that somebody lives, that it turns out they want more of that and they're willing to pay for more of that. Yeah. And that's one of the main reasons. And then of course, you can take away a lot of the healthcare issues. The longer somebody lives, the less burden they are on the economy. and that also factors in. But healthcare is expensive. Somebody's got dementia or ALS like my mother -in -law. This is super expensive. That's just one person causing tens of thousands a day to be looked after.

2:11:12If that, if she was still healthy, a 76, she'd be still earning, she'd be looking after... She'd be spending... Yeah. Yeah. So this is what Gemini says. Research published in nature aging in 2021, you were an author on this paper, right? Yeah. By a team, including Harvard and Oxford economists, showed that a slowdown in aging that increased life expectancy by one year is worth an estimated $38 trillion to the global economy. So again, I find those numbers is crazy. I wish I'd been able to feed that information that you wanted at the beginning of his, like spend the government money solving aging, and then have to worry about any of this other stuff.

2:12:00Yeah. That would have been much better. At Cassie Nova says, what are the most effective over -the -counter modalities available today for under $1 ,000? So we talked about some of those supplements. I don't think any of them more expensive. Exercise, you know, is probably, I would think exercise like the most important modality. How do you feel about that? I think, yes, what you eat and exercise, those are the two big ones, relatively easy. So a little bit more technical to get your supplements right because it's tailored to you. But cardiovascular disease, there's something that I've been taking for a couple of years now.

2:12:38And that actually has been shown in studies to reverse cardiovascular disease. It's called netokines. Oh, yeah, I take netokines as well. Right. Yeah. So I take it for, you know, push COVID on airplane flights, just reducing clouding potentially. Oh, so that's the short term, but the long term benefit was there was a study with 1086 people. Uh -huh. A Chinese study, but it was very well powered and they showed that up to 95 % of the clock got removed in one year. Wow. just by taking, but you need at least 12 units a day. They're called FU units, but not FU, but Fibrillitic units. So I've been doing that and it's been, so far great.

2:13:24I measure my carotid with ultrasound and there's no no plug build up there at all. So it's hard to reduce that, but I do take it as prevention. Let me see where I am on. I'm out of kindness. is an enzyme that digest Fiberin, which is part of 100 milligrams of your luck. I'm 100 milligrams and not a can. I said, I don't know how many units that translates to. Yeah, I would say if you don't want to take a lot of pills, at least 6 ,000 units would be a good start and then work out from there. But of course, do this with the knowledge of your physician. Yeah. I have an army of doctors, I hire. I have theory of them that working for me at Thalton Life's Hill.

2:14:00That's true. But not everyone can do that. But still, just in general, just as a warning. If you do change your lifestyle supplements, just make sure you're doctor knows for sure. Yeah, for sure. And you know, one of the things I really so desperately want is and there was a question only about what people should build. I want an AI model that will take in my genetics, take in my recent blood work, take in my goals. Like I want higher cognitive clarity. I want more muscle. I want more longevity. What are your goals? Are you prioritizing them and then how many pills a day you're willing to take.

2:14:34Yeah. And it should spit out a prioritized list. Because right now you go to one doctor, you'll get one set. You, you know, listen to you or me, you'll get another set. You listen to another person that are set. There isn't optimal. There truly is. So it wouldn't be that hard actually. No, it wouldn't be. The data is out there. We're working on that. But you go to doctors and most doctors would say, what's an Edo kinase? They can't keep up with the literature. It's just too much, but AI can. AI can. Let's talk about something that you and I might differ on. I'm curious, sleep. I suck at it. How do you do?

2:15:08I got a 92 last night, which is very happy about my orroren. I won't tell you what I got. I will tell you because I'm going to look right now. Last night was awful. I mean, I'm usually very proud of my sleep last night. I got a 64. So lowest I've gotten in like a year. And I think it was, I've been so going 24 -7 this week getting ready for being gone for two weeks and whatever it was, but I made up for it today, definitely. Good. Well, I try my best. But you said to me once you think you can get away with less sleep. I have figured out how to do that. Okay, great. Tell. It's about the amount of deep sleep that you get.

2:15:54Sure. And so I've got to... which is the most important thing. A supplement that I take that puts me straight into deep sleep. Is it a Dora drug? Is it Serena makes it, Serena cells it actually. So, but I'm happy, you're not promoting her, but I can. What is it? It's called sweet dreams and it's changed a lot of lives. It's a mixture of Reload O's melatonin, 5HTPs, L -fionine, it's magical to me. And where would I find it? What website? Even if she wasn't my partner, I would say, that's what I take. because I used to have insomnia really badly. I'm off Ambien now. Oh yeah, Ambien's just terrible.

2:16:29You just get it on our website, serena -loves .com. Okay, fantastic. Oh, thanks Peter. Yeah, no, I'm not here to promote it. No, I get it, but you know, we share what we know that works for us and that's all we can do. Yeah, oh, another disclaimer. Yeah. Just want to make sure everyone knows that my thoughts, my opinions and even what I just said have nothing to do with Harvard Medical School. They're just my employer. They're not medical advice. No. Okay.

2:17:00Sam Rankin -Mah asks, what are the top 10 practical longevity tips? Top three for each organ. And which five longevity gadgets do you recommend? So let's go with the last part. We can go with gadgets. Gadgets, yeah. What are you using for gadgets? In our home, we have a red light bed. It's a big one. You have the Thor, the lie down one. I have panels right now that use a panel of fronters. Yeah, it's a big thing with a lid that looks like a tanning bed, but it's not. Yeah, I love that. So I do red light many mornings as I possibly can. Yeah, the other thing I've been doing is I have a red light portable and I put it outside the shower shining in.

2:17:43And so as I'm in the shower, I'm getting red light through a V2 and it's also a steam shower, which is nice. So that's one red light. I use that on my head as well. Yeah, I have a head right I cap for hair growth the ostimulation. It's doing okay. It's working. It's Still can't believe you 65 so 64 sorry didn't mean to age me. That's okay That's fine. You know, I've gotten to a point where I'm stating my age with pride versus hiding it because I Am I am 64 and that's it and I'm just like you know for me that is a call to action to remain at highest health status for as long as possible because we have incredible tech coming our way and I want to intercept that longevity escape velocity.

2:18:28Well, you're also a role model and you know, I feel like I feel like I'm 28 or 29. That's my internal, yeah, that's my internal number for myself. Yeah, I would say physically you look like you'd be in 30s, 40s and you move just like you were in your 30s, 40s, I bet. Yeah. And by the way, my father is stronger, a fitter and more flexible than I am with better balance. And he's at 86. So it's very doable. I, you know, on my birthday a few weeks ago, and I pumped out 100 pushups in a row, which was, you know, when I was in my 20s, the most I could do was 40 and I got to 50 and I've increased it from there.

2:19:04And I'm not saying that to brag. I'm just saying I use it as a measure for how I'm doing In fact, in my longevity guidebook, I put my measurements that I've been measuring over the last few years in terms of squats and pushups and all of the implant posts and such. And it's important for you to measure yourself, of course, you get a lot of data from your Dexascans and your MRIs and so forth. The data does matter. Obviously you have an or a ring on too. I have a ring and I don't say what type it is. Okay. Fair enough. Do you use or have my my CGM on do you just you do yeah, not every week but You know when I when I feel like it's probably five times a year or something and different brands are better than others You want to try what and research what works?

2:19:54But monitoring your glucose a lot of doctors Maybe not a lot of doctors, but I've seen some doctors say it's it's irresponsible for people to have access to that data should be to doctors. Yeah, you'll, you know, look online, there are some doctors who are dead against CGMs unless you got diabetes and even then, which I'm dead against. First of all, who you to say that I can't know about my own body, right? That's insane. And that I'm not educated enough to understand this. I would say a lot of the people out there are just as educated about glucose than their own doctors. So I'm definitely in the camp of we have a right to know our own genetics, our own epigenetics, our own glucose levels, and information is power.

2:20:31As long as you're telling your doctor what you're doing and talking to them about it, you got to do Dr. Supervision, it's fine. When I talk to my doctors, they say, can we see the data? If you'd love to see it, you know? Yeah, one thing that is I'm curious about your thought here, I hate the notion that the government prohibits me from participating actively in experimental treatments. If I'm at the end of life and you know my option is death in some of the romance, why do I have to leave the country to go and try an experimental treatment? Why if I'm of sound mind or if my family agrees? You know right right to you is it called right to right to test right to use?

2:21:23Right to try? Right to try is getting going. But it's done under doc to supervision. You don't just, I mean, you're a doctor, but most people don't just say, I want to try this, give it to me. It's done under doc to supervision. So your physician makes the decision with you. So just the idea that, oh, it might be uneducated decision is not true. Same with you with an Asia, you know, they're, they're, you have to go overseas now. If you want to do that. And if you're and agony every day. I mean, who we to say that you shouldn't do what you want with your life? All right. And Trophy asks a question I'm curious about.

2:22:00How long do you want to live? So there's an interesting one. I'm on stage. I'll ask people in the room here. How long do you think you're going to live? You have a number in your brain. And where do you get that number from and why do you believe it? And I find it fascinating that this mindset that people have this number can make as implications, right? Your mind is a very powerful force on how long you'll live. So you're asking me those questions? I'm asking you how long do you want to live and why? And why is the important part? Right. If you're willing. No, it's fine. I think it's a better question to ask, when do you want to die?

2:22:50And as long as I'm healthy and I have friends, I find that there will never be a day when I want to die. And I think that's true for just about everybody. You know, if you're sick, frail, lonely, depressed, that's when those thoughts come in. But I don't know anybody. And I've talked to thousands and thousands of people and big crowds like you. If you're healthy and have friends and family, do you want to die tomorrow? No one ever says, yeah, take me out. But when do I want to die? Never. I don't like the idea of being dead. I think it's pretty boring. But, you know, it doesn't mean I believe I'm gonna live forever, but I also don't think that if I'm staying healthy, an active and having fun, why would I want to die?

2:23:34Why would anybody want to die? Yeah. Oh, David, I truly love what you do. I consider you a dear friend and I'm grateful for you in my life. Let me recap a couple of things for listeners at home. David's new book, Life Span Survival is coming out in 2026. And number of you asked, when is this podcast coming back? Well, David's podcast is coming back. It's coming back this fall. What's it called? Well, I've spanned with David Sinclair. Awesome. And I asked earlier your producer, and if you want to get on his list to get access to it when it comes out, go to DavidAsinclair .com. What's the A -stand for, by the way?

2:24:19Andrew. Andrew. That's my dad, yeah. All right. Go to DavidAsinclair. My name is Peter H .D .avandis and Harry is my dad's name too. I sort of honor him with that. So David A. Cerclair .com and you'll see a subscribe button there. Please do I will. A couple of other things. Please join me in supporting David's research and his extraordinary team at his lab. In the show notes, you'll see a link to be able to donate at a 50k to a thousand k a thousand in case $50 ,000 level through Harvard Medical School. It's tax deductible. We'll put up once again here the QR code for the coin base wallet, where those of you can donate either stable coin, Ethereum, or Bitcoin.

2:25:12I hope you'll join me. And I would love to get a massive surprise from somebody who comes in and says, listen, we're going to match your $2 million budget. it. Here's some Bitcoin. Yeah. So my my love runs on three million a year. Three million. Okay. So three million dollar. But someone does that. Then I'll give them my entire protocol. Yeah. Everything. I mean, what's it worth in success? This is a micro investment for the impact on humanity. Yeah. And they'll be spinouts too. Yeah. And oh, by the way, you were there when it's Steve Aoki's. Oh, yeah. So we were at an auction and we were the auctions.

2:25:48We were. I feel what you offered, but mine was a tour of my lab, and that went for 100K. So all the friends are welcome to have that as a bonus to come by my lab and see what we're up to. And the third approach is joining David, who had myself as 50K level donors for Friends of Sinclair Lab, just send an email to FOSL at dmandis .com and then we'll connect you back to a site where you can tell us about yourself and if you're serious about joining friends to Clare Lab, you'll see David and I once a quarter and we'll talk about what's the latest and greatest what's going on your lab, what the investment opportunities are what the breakthroughs are we'll see it, it'll be super secret.

2:26:36it. It's direct access. Yeah. And we'll do it. We'll do at least one dinner. Yeah. Maybe more. Yeah. So David, where do we find you on Twitter? That is David A. Sinclair. And then on Instagram, it's David Sinclair PhD. Okay. Fantastic. But he listened. This was fun. I enjoyed this. I really, really did. It was really great to catch up again. I'm going to see you in in Boston at the end of September. And by the way, if you want more information to join me for my five day five star longevity platinum trip, it's capped at 60 people. We spend five days together with the most extraordinary scientists in the world, like David, like George George, like Dean came in, go deep for those days, you can go to abundance360 .com slash longevity and learn more information about it.

2:27:26Excited to spend the weekend with you. And then in March at the abundance summit, again, it's been a few years since you were there and so much progress in this age of AI, it's awesome. It is. Yeah. And every year it just gets better and better. And I also want to speak on behalf of everyone listening. I think we all feel the same way about you. You're a unique individual on the planet. And thank God you exist. Because you make things happen that otherwise would never be in history. And you've already shown that you've done that. But maybe with longevity, that'll be your legacy too. Yeah. I hope so.

2:28:02I look forward to partnering with you on that. Thank you, my friend. All right, buddy. Be well. You too. If you could have had a 10 -year head start on the dot -com boom back in the 2000s, would you have taken it. Every week I track the major tech metatrends. These are massive game -changing shifts that will play out over the decade ahead. From humanoid robotics to AGI, quantum computing, energy breakthroughs and longevity, I cut through the noise and deliver only what matters to our lives and our careers. I send out a metatrend newsletter twice a week as a quick two -minute read -over email. It's entirely free.

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