EP#42 What It’s Really Like to Live in Space w/ Anousheh Ansari

33:10And I knew there were millions of people like me who would do the same. And as long as we understood the risk, and still we were willing to take that chance and build something and risk our lives to go to space, I think it was all right to make that choice. If we play it safe, we will never advance in anything. So I think it was an important step. And I don't know if you remember the challenge of accident happened before. Yes, I do. Yeah, and that was actually another wave of, you know, negative sort of sentiment around our competition. And that, you know, even NASA has accidents like this. What makes you guys, you know, small teams to think that you can go to space and you will definitely kill people.

33:57And we wrote an eye -roading op -ed on this as well. And I talked to a few astronauts to see how they felt about this. And they all said that it's actually dishonoring the memory of those astronauts who gave their lives because they're in this knowing that exploration and expanding humans' footprint in the universe is important. And they're willing to give their lives and using their debt as an excuse not to do it, it's actually dishonoring their memory. And I truly believe that. I do as well. I mean, you know, risk is the game that we enable to live, you know, humanity at a higher level. You know, I remember something that most people don't know is we set the rules for the UnSari exprise.

34:48You have to build a three person spaceship. You know, we figured as a pilot and two paying passengers and you had to fly it to 100 kilometers altitude, land safely. It within and two weeks make the trip again, you could replace up to 10 % of the dry mass, and it had to be 90 % or more privately funded. So in spaceship one, where Mike Melville was sitting up front of the controls, there were two empty seats in the back. Yes. I wanted one of those seats. I remember the day of the flight I was selling, but I'm happy to replace one of those bags if you want. And uncle, I was like, now that you can't do that.

35:28Yeah, we gave the option to the teams that instead of risking three lives. You know, it was interesting. It was important to have a human in the pilot seat would not have been the same. Would it had we had an autopilot flying the vehicle then Mike Milbel on that flight? And in the back two seats, we had all kinds of memorabilia. But I remember when I flew on there, do you remember, did you fly some things? I didn't, I don't remember. I'll have to go back in our time machine and do that. I flew a copy of the spirit of St. Louis, the book that Greg Maronac had given me that inspired the unsurrected prize.

36:12I flew Atlas Shrugged, I'm a huge iron fan, and then I flew the man who sold the moon by Robert Heinlein, which had inspired so much for me. And then we flew certificates that we used for fundraising with the X Prize and bags of pennies that we gave out to people and so forth. They had to come up with something like 400 pounds of ballast back there. So he flies on September 29th and then the rules were you to fly again within two weeks. So what does Bert do next? Well, he definitely didn't want to wait two weeks. So he wanted to make a memory of the second flight. So I think it was October 4th.

36:57Yes, which is another date in history, right? It's the anniversary of Sputnik, October 4th of 1957, where the Soviets beat the Americans to orbit a satellite in space. Yeah, so he notified us that that's when his second flight will be and we were scrambling to make sure we get ready to cover it. and then be there and bring everyone else there. So it was an exciting two flights, both of them. I remember getting up very early and surprised by the line of cars in the darkness of the early morning, Mojave, all these cars and headlights. I'm like, oh my god, all these people are coming to watch the launch.

37:39This is important to a lot of people. Yeah, we had God probably, I know, 30 or 40 large satellite trucks and 10 ,000 plus B was like a giant party in the middle of the desert And it was it was insane And what was crazy was you know Mike Melville had flown that corkscrew flight Five days earlier and what Bert and the team this was the genius of the group he had was they figured if they just flight, a more shallow flight profile, it would be stable. So they didn't have to modify the vehicle at all. So I don't remember our our Charles Lindbergh who won the Unsorry X Prize. Yes. In extraordinary pilot, Navy pilot.

38:21Or who that was? Yes. Brian Vinny. Yeah. Brian. And flew a picture of perfect flight. And I remember Brian was told us that the morning, you know, these guys are getting up at 3 .34 o 'clock in the morning for their flight. And he had barely gotten his sleep the night before. And his mother -in -law steps up to him to give Mahugan. She's got a large big gulp soda in her hand and she's coming to wrap her hands around him and he's thinking in back of his mind, what is she going to do with that giant big gulp soda where she's going to put it? And she puts it down in his flight suit. So he does the flight, the space with all of this sorta sticky on his back.

39:06And he does the calculations of like, you know, extra six ounces of weight, how much less altitude is that gonna be? Anyway, crazy, crazy. And that was an amazing, amazing day in history for us. It was. But it was just the beginning of your space adventures, Mud was L. Yes. So let's take you back to the connection for the Cosmodrome. How did you get into cosmonaut training? Okay, my entire life revolves around express. So we were celebrating the first anniversary of winning of the competition, the answer is express. And we had a big party and invited who's who of space agencies and Buzz Aldrin was there.

39:50And also, of course, all the express family. And we had also invited Erick Anderson and he brought the next person who was supposed to go to space. It was a Japanese businessman and they were there. And Erick told me that he doesn't have a back -up and I know how interested you are in space. Do you want to be a back -up and just learn about the Russian space program and how it works. and because this was something on my list of I wanted to do, I didn't know how that was. What year is this roughly? This is 2005. So, and for backup, you mean go to Russia and train in Star City. Correct. And so my original plan was to go to space with Space Jamont.

40:44And then I knew that I have to wait until they get it commercialized and all that. So I didn't know how long that would take. And this opportunity came and the only question I asked, I was like, would I be in the same room as the other astronauts? Would I be training next to them and said, yeah, you'll be part of the whole crew? You'll be a backup crew. So that was the only question I asked. And then I packed my bags and then I was off to Russia to train for nine months and be in a boat weather. I want you to describe the luxurious accommodations that is the star city training facility. So how would you describe it visually?

41:26It's, I don't think it has changed much since Gagarin flew to space. Let's put it that way. In 1961, yes. And you and Jaime came with me for my qualification because they had to make sure I can enter the program. So you both came with me to star city and I remember there was this capsule, So the old -sauce capsule in the big hall that we entered. And you and I were sat inside and I meet Puktis head in and it's like, you're really going to fly this thing? It's like, yes. It was so old, everything pushed button and old screen. Then the operating system was dust. It was pretty old. I remember everything was cement and an asphalt and the stairs were crumbling on the way up.

42:22It was a it was definitely it was a it was a one star. Chip going back in time. Yeah. Yeah for sure for sure. And so you're you're going through training and you're expecting that you're going to be on the ground watching as the launch vehicle takes off for 11 days on space station, but that dream of standing on the ground and watching it was dashed, wasn't it? Definitely. Fortunately. And it happened very quickly. So before that, if you remember, there was a launch. So for the crew before us. And I got the opportunity to go watch the launch. And if I had any doubt in my mind that I wanted to go to space, my god watching the Soyuz launch just made it that much stronger in my heart.

43:23I'm like, I'm going to do, and start a negotiating. like so when is the first spot that I can sign up to go and while I was thinking about that finished the training and the entire time I was training I decided that I'm gonna train as if I'm going to space because I wanted to I was giving it my all and and I even designed my patch which was very presumptuous of me but like eventually I'm gonna go to space so I started designing my patch and everything. And then the training ended. I remember very clearly the training ended. It was the last day we finished our last sim and Hammit was coming to help me pack to get ready to go home and then the astronauts were going to quarantine to Bikernor.

44:13And on my way to the airport, I got a call from Eric and it's like Eric is the CEO of space adventures at this. Yes, and Eric calls me, like, do you want to go to space? And I'm like, Eric, this is not funny. I'm so depressed. Yeah, exactly. I'm so depressed right now. I was very depressed. The last, the best time I had in my life, I'm scoping to an end. And I'm like, no, I'm serious. The person was supposed to go, had a medical condition and they had just this qualified team and they said that Anucia has passed all the trainings, she scored very high and she's probably even more ready to go and it's just a matter of a few more to go and I screamed so loud I think blue case.

45:05How long have you days before flight is this? So this was three weeks. Three weeks before. You're ready to go back to Plano, Texas and instead you turn the car around. and head back there. Yes. And my first call after, of course, Hammond was there. And as soon as I saw him, he's like, guess what? It's like you're going to space. I'm like, yes, I'm going to space. So I got really, I didn't know what to do. I had only three weeks, so I couldn't prepare anything. And my first call was to you, Peter. It's like, Peter, I'm going to space. What can I do? What should I do? What experiments should I do?

45:46And I remember you told me, it's just right about your experience, right a blog. And I'm like, I don't know how to write blogs. Just write whatever comes to your mind. And I said, okay, and you had to actually pull some strings and get permission for me to actually publish that blog for X -Prize, true X -Prize. It was an extraordinary. And so, how many days on the Space Station were you? Yeah, so you launch how long to get to the space station, how long are they coming back down, give people the flight profile. Those folks may not know what it's, you know, it's like, you know, how quick you can, you can hail your taxi and get to the space station and back.

46:24So back then, it would take two days to get to the space station. So you spend two days inside the capsule, which is not the best part of the trip, because the capsule is pretty small. I was with other two crewmates and you know inside the capsule you're sitting and your knees are to your chest and it's very tight and Then you can get out of your seat once you're in orbit, but you know There's just a little bit more room for two people standing close together and that's the space you have for two days together And that's also the time when your body is going through a lot of changes. So I had motion sickness I had like tremendous headache, my back hurt, you know, the bodies are adjusting.

47:10So it was, that was the, you know, the hardest part of the trip I would say. And then after two days you get to the space station and compared to the capsule, it's like a luxurious, you know, castle with all the different modules. And I was really happy to get there and stayed nine days on the space and returned to Earth with a different crew who had just completed their six months. Your favorite moment, like the favorite thing, like what do you, when you close your eyes and you remember being there, what is it you remember? There are two very special moments that I remember. Of course, the first one is when I saw Earth for the first time and I was still in the capsule.

47:56It was after we got to orbit and they had just told us that we can open our seat belts. I sort of slowly flew up and I had the, you know, a portal next to me. So I flew up a little bit to the portal and I looked out and it was daylight and I could see Earth. And it was such an emotional moment for me and I just, it was so beautiful. And it was like there was this energy and this warmth coming from Earth and I was in the capsule so it wasn't like I was actually feeling it, but it was there I could feel it and I started laughing and at the same time crying. It was bizarre and my teardrop started accumulating under my eyes and one of them started floating and I saw my teardrop floating and that made me laugh again.

48:53So it was just back and forth, You know, a really big, strong mix of emotions. And then after I got enough of watching our planet and then started getting dark as we turned, I decided I'm gonna fly. I can do a Superman now. And I pushed my feet down so hard that I flew so fast, I hit my head to the top of the other module. And then I was summer -solving. all the things they told you not to do at the beginning of the thing in space I was doing. I was a kid. I was a kid in a candy, so I was just experiencing all these sensations and feelings and sights and of course I got very sick after that. Did you did all the motion sickness eventually go away?

49:44Yes, I had to get a shot. I got so bad I had to have a shot and that makes you drowsy, So one regret I have is the first two days inside the capsule. I was very drowsy because of the medication. But by the time we got to the space station, I was adjusted. I was ready. I was excited. So my body went through all its changes before getting to space station, which was the best part. I could just enjoy the experience out there. Yeah, no, that's that's awesome. You come back down and

50:23We begin our journey together on the exprise so you've been a trustee of the exprise since your family stepped up to underwrite the first unsauri exprise and a been a you know extraordinary Co -conspirator I'll say in this in this journey And we were lucky enough to pull you in as CEO. How many years ago now? About three years ago, three and a half years ago. Like I take it tell you, you know, it's the first three years of your next 300 -wicked day. I'll offer you all the longevity services in the planet as long as we keep you as our CEO. And Nushan, I want to talk a little bit about mindset, which I tend to focus on in this podcast, because I think it's what I like to say is that what enables the most successful people on the planet is their mindset.

51:15It isn't the money they have, it isn't the technology they have, it's the way they process information and see the world. So let's kick off with a conversation on a passion and purpose driven mindset. that because I think you're someone who very much exudes passion and purpose. What's your advice to people when they're saying, I'm not sure what I want to do, I'm not sure what my purpose is. Do you have any advice for folks to help them find their passion and their purpose? Yeah, I think it's good if people leave some room for exploration and experiences. That's the only way you can find your passion.

52:00So as I said, I have a very curious mind. So I love trying new things. And sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't like it. I think that's very essential to being able to find your purpose and your passion. And a lot of people are looking so hard that even if it's there, they miss it because they think it's form -related. and there's like they need to take a test to find out what their passion is. And it's not like that because passion comes from an experience that leaves an emotional sort of footprint on you. And then you, you know, you want to have it again and you want to have it in a bigger way.

52:40Or something that maybe it's an idea that you watch something and again I love sci -fi stuff. So I always got ideas from just watching what the future could be and then trying to make it happen. So I think Curiosity and allowing yourself to experience different things and having an open mind to these new experiences is a big part of finding your passion and and you know risk -taking is Core to all of it because if you want to play it safe You will never try something new and if you never try something new you, how would you know if it's something you like or you're passionate about? So those are, I think, very important factors.

53:22I love that. And it goes back to another mindset, a focus on which is a curiosity mindset, right? Which I think you exhibit in spades. Is there, you know, do you think you're born with a curiosity mindset or is that something you develop over time? I think we all are born with curiosity mindset, but some start putting limits on it and sort of killing it. As kids we're always curious, every child is curious because they're just learning. And you can either develop it and let it grow or you can sort of start and then kill it. And a lot of our system, sometimes parents, sometimes society, plays a big role in really killing that sense of imagination and curiosity in young people.

54:13And that's one thing that if I have a chance to give advice, is don't let that die in you because that's the best gift we have as human beings. Is this imaginative mind that the curiosity that we have allowing us to imagine things and then building it later. It starts with that whole concept and it's very unique to human beings. I don't know anymore any other species that we've studied enough that has this type of capability. Oh, love that. And that was part of your patch. What was your mission, what were your mission patch? Imagine being a change inspired. So I had these three things on top of my patch.

54:55So the first part was imagination because without imagination you don't go anywhere. You have to first see it, imagine it and then do it. So the second part is the action part, be the change. So if you want something, don't wait for other people to do it for you, you have to do it. You have to make it happen. You have to create it. So it's part of the famous Gandhi quote of be the change you want to see in the world. So you have to manifest that yourself. And then the last part is when you do the first two parts, inspire others to do the same. because this work will be a much better place and more fun place to live in if everyone follows those steps.

55:35Everybody let me take a quick break from my episode to talk about something important for your diet. Now as you know I'm a huge longevity and health champion. Part of my focus is on exercise, sleep, and diet. When it comes to diet I'm super careful on what I eat but throughout the day when I need energy I'm looking for a snack and one of my favorite options is macadamia nuts and there are four reasons I want to share them with you. First, macadamia nuts are high in mono unsaturated fats which are the good fats for your heart. It lowers LDL and raises your good cholesterol. Second, they taste great and the rich in fiber which helps with digestion and gut health.

56:16Third, macadamia nuts contain antioxidants and flavonoids, which protect your cells from damage and inflammation. And finally, macadamia nuts have a low glycemic index, which means they don't spike your blood sugar. They truly are the king of nuts. I get mine from House of Macadamia, which offers the best macadamia nuts in the world. Their source sustainably from South Africa. They offer a huge range of delicious, nutritious products, including roasted and dipped macadamia nuts, macadamia nut bars, macadamia oils, which are actually better than olive oil for cooking. If you want to try house a macadamia products for yourself, you can get 20 % off your first order by using the code Peter20 at checkout.

57:01Just go to houseofmacadamias .com, backslash, Peter20, and enter the code Peter20 at checkout. out. That's houseofmakadamias .com slash Peter 20 and then again use the code Peter 20 to get that 20 % off. Trust me, you'll love them as much as I do. Now back to our episode. One of the things that I love is the fact that the X Prize has a significant number of women in leadership positions. I've often said it's time to give women men have screwed up in offlets and it over. What's your advice to women out there who are, you know, interested in non -traditional, what has been historically non -traditional female careers and or want to be entrepreneurs and leaders?

57:55You know, what do you say to all of them? So I think this whole concept, the podcast about mindset and I think mindset plays a huge role, whether you're male or female. But in women, I think a lot of times we limit our limiting belief system is what limits us. We are scared to try big things. And part of it, I think, has to do with the fact, and again, I grew up in a different culture, but girls are always told to be perfect by their parents, especially their moms usually. It's like you have to look perfect, dress perfect, your hair has to be perfect, everything has to be perfect. And when you're trying to be perfect, you don't try things that you may fail at.

58:43I remember my grandmother used to discourage me from playing in a game where I had to run and I could fall down. It's like you can have a score on your skin. And if you want to ever be in a beauty page and you can be in a beauty page, I'm like, who wants to be in a beauty page? I want to run, I want to climb, I want to go up the tree. So I think those types of things as a child puts a sort of this limiting belief system that there are certain things a perfect girl cannot do. And I think we need to get rid of that and try everything and not be afraid of failing. So anyone who wants to try something worthwhile, they need to prepare themselves for failure.

59:25And to me, I even don't like the word failure because to me, anything you want to do that is new, you're going to make mistakes and things won't work the way you thought. So to me, their lessons are not failures and you just need to understand what went wrong. So next time you don't make the same mistake or make adjustment to do it better. So I think those things are very important in women who want to be in leadership position. And I also, especially I want a lot of women in the STEM and tech -oriented businesses, because I think our society will be run by technology. And the fact that the voices of women leaders are missing at the design tables, at the discussion tables, the world is being built in a way that it won't be women -friendly.

1:00:20So I think it's important for women to be at the discussion table, at the design table, at the leadership role to do that. And the last thing I would say is, and this is true for me, when I did things, I didn't think about being a female engineer or a female CEO or a female dis or a female. I was me, I was a human being. I was doing things the way I believe should be done the way I would if I switch places. My leadership has always been that if I were the employee, what would I want to see? And I would try to do that. Or when I worked for someone else, what things worked and what things bothered me.

1:01:01So I never went to business school. I don't have a MBA. So everything I did was from intuition and just doing the things I liked in other leaders and not doing the things I didn't like in other leaders. So it was, it's something that I recommend for women. And when you look for mentors, I don't think you just need to limit yourself to female mentors. I think female mentors can understand some of the challenges that women leaders face. But you can always learn lessons from anyone. And I would actually like that diversity of experiences when you're trying to tackle a problem that's facing you. I love that.

1:01:47I love that. Let's talk moon shots. That's our business in next prize. And, you know, is this is the idea of going big and or going home something that was inherent in your mind as an entrepreneur? Did you gravitate to this idea of going after the world's biggest problems. I mean, I think I don't think that's for everybody, right? I think some people just like to stick in their knitting and do the 10 % incremental work. And other people like unless I'm changing the world and not interested, you know, is that, do you agree with that or what's your experience here? I agree. And so here's the way I look at it.

1:02:31Being an entrepreneur, starting something new is It's very risky. It requires a lot of sacrifice. It's hard. I think sometimes people make it sound like it's always fun and games and parties and you get to be your own boss. So you can sleep as late as you want. It's the farthest from the truth. It's hard. You have to be all in if you want to succeed. You have to be dedicated, passionate, and you need to be ready for a lot of failures and adjusting and getting up and taking the next step. So if you're doing all of that, it's not worth it for a 10 % increment. If you want to do that, go work for a company.

1:03:15That's what they do. Large companies will, they do incremental change. If you want to be entrepreneur, you need to take big leaps and make sure that your time and energy and the sacrifice you make from your personal life, which you have to make is worth it. So that would be what I would do. And that's why a lot of things, projects or products that we built was way ahead of its time. So we were changing something. To stick on the focus on women leaders and entrepreneurs, I have to imagine it's difficult to have a trade against family, a trade against kids, a trade against how you spend your time.

1:03:57What do you tell young women in their 20s and 30s who are going all in on this? Well, that's exactly the sacrifices that you have to make. You have to have a passion strong enough that you feel like it's worth it because, as I said, you're giving up a lot to be able to do what you do. So you need to be sure that this is something you really want to do deep down in your heart. And unfortunately, it is a sacrifice right now, but it doesn't have to be Peter. I think in the future, as business leaders, look at things other than just quarterly profits. And even that, I don't think it's an issue. Just being open to creating and accommodating people of different background and different needs to be part of a team, whether it's a leadership team or a design team, that diversity and inclusion will give you a much stronger, better product service or company at the end of the day.

1:05:08So I think it's worth making some accommodations to create that environment that invites everyone, one invites women, invites people of different race and background. And I think business leaders will get to a point that they will understand that and they will embrace that. And this whole notion of putting people in boxes eventually will go away. That would be my idea or where we don't have to put people in any box at a woman or a man or a, you know, African American or a gay or, or, well, I don't know why we create so many labels. We're just humans. I mean, I love the way you run the organization.

1:05:49Did you have any mentors or anybody, you know, role models that you looked up to in Russia that really shaped your life here? Not people that I worked with as a kid. My idol was Albert Einstein. I read about how he came up with a theory of relativity. And to me, that was mind -boggling. how could someone sit in a small office, patent office, and imagine how the universe functions and imagine it so differently than what was believed to be the way the world works. And the fact that you can have such strong imagination and be able to just see things like that in your mind and then try to prove it to me was that's what I wanted to do.

1:06:39I want to go beyond what's in front of my eyes to be able to see and imagine things and then go prove them or go build them. And that was my fascination and why I so strongly believe in this magical gift we have, which is the gift of imagination. But in terms of mentor, as I said, the way I sort of tried to shape my leadership studies is around what I'd liked from other leaders around me and what I'd disliked and build on that. Very human centric type of approach, not textbook approach. Let's turn to XPRIZE. We've launched $300 million in prizes. You really have done an extraordinary job in building the structure for growth going forward.

1:07:31give everybody a quick overview of like what does the ex -price do at its fundamental if they haven't heard about the ex -price how would you describe it? So I describe it through actually why I was drawn to it. So ex -price launches massive competitions to really focus the world's attention on a problem that has been left unsolved and it's important to humanity and then incentivizes the best minds from all over the globe to focus on solving it. And the way we incentivize them to really break down with very clear objectives how you would solve it. So, demonstrate these three things. Go to 100 kilometers to a twice within two weeks the way you described it.

1:08:19So, very clear objectives that people can get, wrap their mind around, okay, I need to build this, that does A, B, and C. And this way they are, you know, excited and they come together and form teams to build what we want because we only award the winners once they build and demonstrate that they've accomplished what we asked them to accomplish. So it's very different than some of the awards and prizes that award or did our ideas or past work. This is very future forward looking. And at the core, the thing that really draws me to express is the fact that our mission is to build a hopeful, abundant future for everyone.

1:09:02And the world needs that. And that's what we try to do with accelerating innovation and breakthroughs and solving the world's problem. We are driving the world toward this vision of an abundant and hopeful future for a bit. Do you think that X Prize sets big enough challenges? How do you think about this? Because I'm always saying, is that going to happen anyway? Or is this going to be a big enough prize? And should we be going more into the area of crazy? So to speak, where do we balance between an incremental prize and a prize that's so crazy that it will never get won. I mean, these are things, you know, I think about it, and you have to run an organization.

1:09:55You know, I just have the, I have the luxury of being chairman and throwing ideas over the transom to you. So it's a really good question and a question that we ask ourselves as, you know, you ask yourself and as a team, leadership team, we ask ourselves too. And in the past we've been very opportunistic to find that intersection of an idea that there's enough interest from a sponsor to actually help us launch it because we can come up with a lot of crazy ideas and people will tell us you're crazy and we won't be able to get it off the ground. So we have to have a different approach which we're working on which is the next phase of expires.

1:10:34But today, the way I think when I look at the world, there's so many immediate problems that we can't just focus on crazies without understanding that people have shorter termings. And again, short term for exprise is not next year or the year after. It's like a five year horizon, five to ten year horizon is short term for us. And our long term is always looking at, you know, 20, 25 years, 30 years into the future. So I think we need to balance both and we need to have a good mix of very challenging prizes where we probably won't have to set a time limit that you have to win by this time. And that will basically allow teams to work on their own over a long period of time and eventually get there.

1:11:25And then with our some immediate issues around climate, energy, biodiversity, health, that requires still big risks and big steps and no one else is doing and X -PRISE can accelerate those breakthroughs and I think that's also very important for us to do. So I think we need to have a good mix of both. So any favorites that you know of your ex -price children like you know and I'm curious if you've like any of the ex -prises that we've launched that you've said man that just isn't gonna happen or you know or anyone's that you're like wow that's amazing. I love all of our ex -prises but I'm a techie I'm a geek so I definitely love our avatar competition and it's a favors of mine.

1:12:16So tell people what you have to do to win this avatar, this all -nip on airways ANA avatar express. The part that I love is that the actual price initially was like they were thinking of is it possible to build a transportation like the one you see on Star Trek? Yeah, a quantum teleportation. Quantum teleportation. Yeah, that's what I really wanted to but we had to see what can be done in the span of 10 to 15 years. And so it ended up being an avatar competition where you're not, you know, dematerializing yourself, but you are transferring your senses, your actions, all of your emotions through an avatar to a remote location.

1:13:05and it would feel as if you're there and taking those steps and actions and feeling like you're there actually. So it was a bringing a lot of different technologies together and integrating them and advancing them in a way that will give that sense of being in a different location without physically dislocating yourself. So it's haptics, AR, VR, AI, robotics, vision systems, all of it coming together and building an avatar. And then you have a suit that you wear and put on your goggles and the suit and the gloves or whatever. And then you would feel like wherever your avatar is, you would feel it's there and you would be able to pick things up and send things and move around like you were physically there.

1:14:01Nice. You and I were in Israel for the attempted landing of the Israeli Google Lunar X Prize team. So this was an interesting one, right? We had challenged, gotten Google to put up $30 million for the first team who could land on the moon, send back photos, videos, robe, and send back more photos and videos and the competition ran at a time. Yeah. That was one of our audacious competitions to ask a team to actually build a system and launch it and land on the moon. That was tall order. But many teams attempted. I mean, I was really encouraged by the number of teams from different countries who actually built hardware and they were trying to negotiate catching up right on someone's rocket to get to the moon.

1:14:56But we were in Israel and one of our team's best IL who continued their work even past the exploration of the competition and announced that they're going to make an attempt. And the part I love that when they launched they actually had a little card that they were going to use to show that they've launched and how close they get to the moon. And they had the express on it because the team, I remember the team members were young kids when we had an anti -history express and they were inspired and their interest in space was picked because of that prize. And then they became a team competing in our Google Lunar Express.

1:15:37So we had shaped their lives and they're the pictures. a photograph of a selfie taken by the spacecraft in its trans lunar injection. And so the moon is behind the spacecraft and the photo shows the ex -price logo in the foreground with the moon. That was amazing. I love that. That was amazing. I was just being there and hearing their stories and the excitement they had created in their community, the kids that were looking at them like they were heroes because We always call our teams our heroes, but now they were the heroes of the nation. They were the small team of young entrepreneurs and landing in lunar lander and they almost made it there.

1:16:19They were like this close They did land it just with a high velocity impact Yeah, we're in Israel at mission control and it's just it's just crowded you and I and mission control along with We had the present country was there and the head of their space program was there and they're in orbit around the moon, which was a big accomplishment of self getting into lunar orbit. They hit the engines to break and they're coming down and nothing hardware is a software glitch, the app software. And they unfortunately didn't do a soft landing so close. And I think they're funded to go again. They're funded to go again.

1:17:10And the best part was many of the teams who didn't even go that far. They all have received contracts from different space agencies because they all had a lot of innovations. So that's what we do at the X -Prize, even if our failures are big successes because we advance technology, we create innovative approaches to things that have not changed for decades. So that's the beauty of express competitions. Everybody, this is Peter, a quick break from the episode. I'm a firm believer that science and technology and how entrepreneurs can change the world is the only real news out there worth I don't watch the crisis news network, I call CNN or Fox, and hear every devastating piece of news on the planet.

1:17:58I spend my time training my neural net the way I see the world by looking at the incredible breakthroughs in science and technology. How entrepreneurs are solving the world's grand challenges, what the breakthroughs are in longevity, how exponential technologies are transforming our world. So twice a week I put out a blog. One blog is looking at the future of longevity, age reversal, biotech, increasing your health span. The other blog looks at exponential technologies, AI, 3D printing, synthetic biology, AR, VR, blockchain. These technologies are transforming what you as an entrepreneur can do.

1:18:37If this is the kind of you use you want to learn about and shape your neural nets with, go to demandus .com, backslashblog, and learn more. Now back to the episode. So how would you define a moonshot mindset, Anusha? If you were to say that some of the most successful people entrepreneurs in the planet have a moonshot mindset, what is that? What does it take to have a moonshot mindset? I think you have to start with a clean sheet of paper and then start from the end point the destination and push yourself to think about what do I want to see? What is it that I want to build? If I had no limitation whether it's money, resources, engineering, technology, nothing, if the world was perfect and I could stop my finger and create something, what would that thing look like?

1:19:30And once you have that vision, then you can step back and figure out how to get there and how to build it. because a lot of people start with something that's there and how they can improve it. And you will never end up in a moonshot if you're starting by trying to improve something. But if you look at a problem or something that's just you want to build and start with the end in mind and envision it without any limitation, I think it will ultimately end up in a moonshot thinking. It's a practice, I think. I love sometimes when you get there through conversation, because if you get just two or three crazy people around and you start throwing ideas there and then someone say, what if this and what if that?

1:20:19So another thing about moonshot is, I don't think you sit there in a room by yourself and create your moonshot. You come up with an idea in order to make it into moonshot, you need to bounce it by a few crazy people around you. Yeah, I agree with you. It's in conversation. I would say sometimes it could be in conversation with the author of a book, right? So reading a book and hearing ideas and having that rattling your brain. So for me the original and sorry ex -price came out of a reading of the spirit of St. Louis that Greg Mariner gave me and then calling a few people like Byron Lichtenberg and and Jim Burke and Greg, and then asking them what they thought of the idea and when they told me it was a crazy idea, I said, good.

1:21:06It's like, you know, and I think that's an interesting point, right? Because if you go with your moonshot idea and you bounce it off of people and they tell you it's a crazy idea and never work, how do you deal with that? I think you're asking the wrong person because I was always told anything I wanted to do. I was so nice, but you can't do that. I said I want to go to space and nobody believed me. So I don't pay attention. Whether it's moon shots or other things, I live my life without caring what other people think. It just has to sit right and be right with me inside my heart, something I want to do.

1:21:48and then, you know, I say, well, even if it's crazy, I'll try it. And I will never have regrets because I know I tried it and then I failed at it. But if I never try it, one, I don't know if I will make it. And two, I will always wonder what if I did it? Let me ask you, you know, why would you say moonshots matter? You know, are we taking enough, are entrepreneurs taking enough moonshots? Are countries or philanthropists taking enough moonshots? and why do they matter? I don't think we are taking enough moonshots. I didn't matters because that's how we make fundamental change in society. And if we learn one thing what the pandemic is, change happens.

1:22:30Nobody's safe. You can't live in safety. But you like it or not. But do you like it or not? So, to me, when you take the chance, when you do something, at least you control or not control, but you at least predict the change a little bit. And you know, you decided to take the chance. So you have, you feel like there's some agency in the change that's happening to your life because you chose to go in that direction, take that path. So big changes in society happens through moon shots. I think nothing that has really transformed societies in a positive way was done with just incremental thinking.

1:23:15So, moonshot definitely matters. And I think it's a shame I don't see people with means taking moonshots. It's usually people who don't have much to lose, so they take bigger chances. And to me it's good and it's always, you need to have that. But if you mix that with people who have lots of capital to invest in something, where There are one percent of that capital can really help drive loan shots. It's a shame that they can't take even that. You're hitting on a pet peeve. I mean, there's many individuals who've got 50 or $100 billion and I was like, what are you going to do with that money? Have you not figured out?

1:24:01You can't take it with you. And if you leave it to your kids, you're going to destroy their lives. So what are you going to do with it? And it really does drive me nuts. So there's a few people, you know, Elon's been taking big bets, despite let's put Twitter aside for the moment. And you know, Mark Benioff has done an incredible job, Eric Schmidt's done, but there's a lot of just money sitting on the sidelines, just accumulating. Why do you think that is? Why are, you know, the world's billionaires really being quite conservative and quiet? Is there like something happen when you get you know three commas?

1:24:43I think it's the scarcity mindset that Peter you talk about because they're always thinking that I may lose it. So if you're thinking that I may lose it, you can continue trying to protect it and nothing is enough because you could lose it. And guess what? Things happen in the world that you may lose it anyway. So why don't you spend at least a fraction of it? So if you're a few billionaires listening this conversation, take just one of your billion and launch $100 million X prizes. And I guarantee you, we will do really a lot of great work with the capital you put forward. And we do. I mean, we have 26 years of experience to show how we bring 10 to 30 times the money invested in a prize in terms of investment in ideas and innovation in that field.

1:25:35So to me, if you want to have an impact in the world, if you want to leave a legacy, what better leverage for your philanthropic dollar than 10 to 30? And it's fun. It's definitely fun. I mean, you had fun as the as the benefactrix of the Anzariya enterprise, yes? I loved every moment of it. I loved the board meetings. I loved the visionary session. I absolutely loved the visionary and events and it was not a chore to go to any of these meetings. I couldn't wait until the next one next year. My theory about why billionaires don't fund this. You don't have to be a billionaire. If you're a cent a millionaire and you want to put a $10 million prize, that's aligned with our vision, happy of the conversation.

1:26:15But I think there are two things I think about one is that they, and I've told this to Steve Forbes and Kip Forbes and the Forbes family. I think that the Forbes list gamifies wealth retention. And so I don't want to drop the number 13 to number 43 by giving away a few billion dollars. And we need a countervailing force here. We need the equivalent of the Forbes contribution list that has them raised up the ranking there. That's one reason. And the reason I think is that when you get to that point of wealth, you like directing where the money goes. I think you like saying, no, let's use that design for a rocket chip.

1:27:04And I'm going to invest in this individual versus letting, you know, the crowd compete against each other. Any other reasons why? I mean, for me was the, that last point, it was the opposite it because I was an entrepreneur and I always looked at putting money in building things that I directed. But then I also was fully aware that I would go higher team, tell them the designs, what we wanted to build and, you know, wait three or four years or longer and usually it would cost more and I would not end up with what I wanted exactly. But, you know, the big appeal of a competition to me was that I will put my design out there of what we want the people, the teams to build.

1:27:49And I don't pay anything until they actually build it and show that it works. I mean, as an entrepreneur, what better way to innovate, you know, to build something you want to build is ask everyone in the crowd, source it to the entire world and ask them to build it for you without paying them. And then someone else pays them to build up for you and you only pay up to the winning team to the best design. That to me, like, it's no brainer. And if you want to have an impact in the world, you know, just creating that many different innovation and companies out there, that's the best legacy you can leave.

1:28:27I tell you, I went to space so people know I'm an astronaut, so usually that's an attraction. But when I go speak at universities, the students who come up to me, many of them were maybe in high school or even younger during an anxiety experience. And they were inspired by that idea and they ended up going to aerospace engineering or taking a field of interest in space. because before that they never heard of space in any exciting way. They never thought that there would be a path for them. And all of a sudden we created the opportunity and they're like, oh, I can be part of this whole new marketplace, a whole new set of jobs that are opening up and I don't need to just think about working for NASA which would be a limited opportunity.

1:29:19So it really has driven a lot of people in a field that they wouldn't go study in and they're excited and they're They come to me and thank me for sponsoring it and I get that more than oh you're an astronaut So what better legacy? I want to thank you to Anusha I mean I would have been up the proverbial creek without a paddlehead you guys not stepped up I mean I had I remember before before we announced you as a sponsor or I would have teams calling me up all through the week saying, you have the money yet? Are building our spaceships, do you have the 10 million? No, I don't, but trust me. I will find that someone out there has to be intelligent and I'll have to do this.

1:30:00So was it worth it? Was it worth putting up the money for the prize? Oh my God, every penny and more. I'm so happy we were the lucky ones to be the sponsors of this prize. I look out there now. and this whole industry that has been built around space, I truly believe, and I know there has been even scientific papers written that traced it back to that pivotal moment of the competition and making this paradigm shift in people's mind, changing mindset, that it is possible, that yes, entrepreneurs can build spaceship and go to space, and I think that was the pivotal moment and just like your inspiration, the spirit of San Luis, it was that pivotal moment for aviation.

1:30:50Express was a pivotal moment for this whole new age of space and commercial space exploration. I mean, people are having conferences, space investment conferences. Nobody would invest in penny when we launched the competition in space. The old adage was the best way to become a millionaire in space was to start as a billionaire. And it was so true. It was like, you know, the only way you can go raise money from somebody is if they had not invested in space before because they were to blast it all. So at the end of this podcast, I ask every guest a question, which is the following. And I'm going to ask you, because I think it's beautifully self -referential.

1:31:30So if I could snap my fingers and fund and launch any X prize you want, what would be a grand challenge, a problem that you would want solved? Do you have a passion or a favorite X prize out there? I have several. It's such a hard question. Well, I will accept more than one entry. OK. So one is definitely space related. And it's a very futuristic. It's one of those crazy ones. OK. Yeah, I love it. Space is big and I want to travel fast and go far. So I want a different type of engine. I want a warp engine or something close to it that allows us to travel much faster and go further. That's why I'm like, so you want faster than light speed or do you want a pro -cancer?

1:32:19No, I'm happy with the fraction of light speed. So you're open to sublight. You're open to sublight, but something else. like where do you want to get by when? Like you want a couple of day travel to Mars. Do you want to go? Yeah, yeah, I think that would be a good speed for you That would be good speed for me. Okay, so then sorry We can on Mars would be great But other than that the other two things and one I don't know if there is an expiry's in it But it's it's something I love to do One that I know there's an expires, I want to find a solution for abundant sustainable clean, almost free energy.

1:33:08Because I think if we have access to that, so many problems and everything can be solved. So that's one. And my last one. Let's double click on that one. Okay. So, almost free, abundant, sustainable, clean energy. But we're talking about going beyond solar and wind. Yes. Yes. So, in other words, it's easy and it sort of can be go anywhere. So, this sounds like conversations you and I have had with a few individuals out there in the cold fusion zero point energy. Is that the air in area of passion? Yeah, if it's cold fusion, it can be done. Yes. If not, is there another way? But I think whether it's food, water, circular economy, anything.

1:34:04Energy tips everything. If you have abundant energy of abundant clean water, you can desalinate anything, pull it out of the atmosphere, and then half the disease burden the planet Earth is due to unclean drinking water. So energy tips water and medicine health. And so the last thing is I have a deep passion for empowering young young people. And I want to find a really strong way to give young people a voice, especially in a geopolitical situation that we live in because I think their voice will bring sanity and balance in the world versus leaving it to power hungry politicians that live all over the globe now.

1:34:51I love that and I agree there's a level of purity and hope that comes with those voices. What age group, if you were going to empower them, what age group would you focus in on? I would focus on probably 15, 16 to 25. You know, I've often thought I've had conversations when I was in Dubai, other parts in the world. But I've often thought that having a competition to send the youngest people into space would literally put them on a pedestal to speak to the passions of making the world a better place. So, you know, it's how do you elevate them, but how do their voices get heard around the world?

1:35:43Because they're so smart and they have access to so much information. They're much more capable than when I was the age. And they can do so much, but they're not taken seriously. They're not invited and involved in a lot of the social making because we think they're kids and they're much much more on than we believe they are and we need to empower them and give them the opportunity to make their voices heard and act it on. Not just hear their voices because we can also put them behind podiums and they can talk and then we walk away and do whatever we were doing before but really empowering them in having a voice that will be actioned.

1:36:30I, you know, we talk about in ex -price our global visionary mechanism of sourcing from the experts out there, which ex -prises we should go out after. I wonder if we should have a category of it where we ask 15 to 25 year olds what they think we should be going after, independently of the traditional, you know, experts, which sounds like a four letter word to me sometimes. We're bringing a lot of interns into our conversations and hope to build a strong youth program and continue to build it up. I remember visionaries when our benefactors would bring their young kids. They loved it. They had a blast.

1:37:17us. Yeah. Well, Anusha, I'm sorry. Dr. Anusha, I'm sorry. We have a few honorary degrees that have come your way. Allow me to say from my heart of hearts, thank you for being in my life. Thank you for stepping up and underwriting the An -SariEx Prize. Equally important, thank you for coming back to the mothership and leading us and being my partner in creating change in the world to go back to your patch design. Thank you, Peter. You have been a great influence in my life. You have a very strong gravitational field, and you've changed the trajectory of my life for good. And I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

1:38:01Thank you, Nisha. Have a beautiful day. Thank you, too.