Google Invests $40B Into Anthropic, GPT 5.5 Drops, and Google Cloud Dominates | EP #252

19:32There's a subset of people who use the open-source models and the Chinese models. and they don't really care. I think they should care at some point that's going to come up. One question I have for Alex and Dave is how do you protect against the code or prompt injection in these open sources, their way of defending against that? If there is, then there's a huge case for this because everybody here is looking for the low-cost approach, right? But for the most part, I'll be blunt, the conversation is not around which model and open source are closed is like, what do we do with AI? Like literally at a level of lack of sophistication around this that you would expect.

20:19But the option is also there for startups then to leapfrog lots of people and build aggressively for the coming madness that's upon us.

20:28Dave Blundin:Yeah, it's almost an impossible question, Salim, because if you sit on the sideline and you don't use this stuff aggressively, you fall way, way behind. But if you start using it aggressively, you're generating thousands or millions of lines of code before you even know it. And so then the odds go up, right? So I think what you're trusting right now is that the guardrails that Anthropic and OpenAI put on their models, they're very, very cautious when they're pulling in code, open source or otherwise. I mean, almost annoyingly cautious. So you kind of assume they've done a very, very good job of filtering out, you know, nasty code injection, but the numbers work against you at scale, you know?

21:10Dave Blundin:So there's no, there's no simple answer. I mean, you could, you can, when I got into it, I was like, Hey, I'm just going to look at the code. I'm not going to just run it. I'm going to see what it does. That's a joke, right? That's just laughable. It's generating so quickly now that there's no chance you could even scroll through it. So, uh, you have to use AI. It's like a lot of things actually, you have to use AI to protect against AI. There's no other, other way to get the scale. So it's tricky. I know that wasn't much of an answer, but it's tricky. You know, one thing I'd love to point out here, we talk about this on occasion, but I don't think we've ever really spoken about it in detail.

21:45The Kimi K2.6 uses something called a mixture of experts, an MOE. And it's interesting, and just to take a moment about this, if in fact you have a trillion parameter model and you ask a question, It's basically accessing all trillion parameters every time to analyze every token. And what they did here is they actually created, you know, a set of 30 plus experts. And so that, you know, some percentage of all the parameters are dedicated to one expert system. So if you ask a coding question, you know, the orchestrator looks at this and says, okay, this is a coding question. We're going to send it to, you know, experts number 3, 7, and 12, and only uses a portion of the parameters, right?

22:35It only uses, you know, instead of all the experts, it uses some sub-fraction thereof, and it saves money and saves time. And, you know, how many different models are using that right now, Alex?

22:49Peter Diamandis:Sparsity, which is the term of art I think that we're talking about here, is endemic to all frontier models at this point. It's also the basis for the human brain. If we look at the brain, most neurons don't at any given point in time have action potentials that are going in and out. So sparsity is a great way to reduce the memory footprint of models. To my knowledge, all of the frontier models use sparsity one way or another. It's also a good way to, another term of art, regularize the models. So to make sure that particular weights or parameters in the models aren't overfitting to the training data, one of the age-old techniques is just blasting away individual weights or parameters in the neurons, making them disappear entirely as a so-called regularization technique.

23:36Peter Diamandis:So sparsity is everywhere at this point, and it's only going to, I think, become more important with time as we try. You know, one of my holy grails is, as I've mentioned on the pod previously, I'd like to see a million parameter or smaller diamond or black hole of a model at the end of the scaling race. And I think sparsity and cranking the knob on increasing sparsification in these models is one possible path to getting us there.

24:06Dave Blundin:And just to add something to what Peter said, the MOE innovation, mixture of experts innovation that came from DeepSeek, is actually layer by layer. So most of these neural nets are about 140 layers deep now. And it'll route the expert layer by layer. So it'll say, look, within this layer, I'm just doing basic image classification. and this layer I'm doing deeper thinking and this layer I'm doing higher level math, you know, as it moves through the neural net, it'll actually route to, you know, now I think up to 128 different experts layer by layer. And so it'll find the optimal pathway through the entire neural net.

24:42Dave Blundin:On top of that, you can also have dedicated experts like here's a surgeon, here's an artist, here's a coder above and beyond that. But MOE is actually within the neural net layer by layer. All right. Next story is OpenAI unveiled GPT 5.5 literally just seven weeks after GPT 5.4. Greg Brockman calls it a new class of intelligence. It's natively omni-modality. It's able to process text and audio and video and images all in a single unified end-to-end architecture. it has a 37 point increase in over 5.5 over 5.4 in long context reasoning which means 5.4 and 5.5 are both a million token windows but 5.5 can actually remember the beginning of the million tokens and provide you know complete context across the entire thing token efficiency 40 fewer tokens with the same latency and i love this hallucination is down 60 over a 5.4 Let's go to our resident genius.

25:48Alex, what do you make of 5.5? How important is it?

25:51Peter Diamandis:I think it's very important, both intrinsically and also relative to 5.4. So I want to highlight two key stats here. The first is the leap from GPT 5.4 thinking to 5.5 thinking. That's probably the biggest leap overall on Terminal Bench 2.0 specifically. So one way to interpret this, TerminalBench is a benchmark that's focused on the ability to agentically operate from a command line terminal. Where is that useful? For codecs and for cloud code type environments. So one way to construe this huge leap, which is larger than most or all of the other leaps that we see in terms of other benchmarks, is that 5.5 is being very seriously focused, benchmarked, if you like.

26:38Peter Diamandis:although I really, having used it, don't think it's narrowly overfitting just to creating and making codecs a better cloud code competitor. But it very much feels like a release that's intended to strengthen OpenAI's codecs. That's thought one. Thought two is my favorite benchmark among all of these is Frontier Math Tier 4. Frontier Math Tier 4, which I think we even had a New Year's bet about that we're going to have to revisit sometime later this year, is one of the best proxies for the ability for AIs to solve professional-level research problems in math. And what do we see? We see from GPT 5.4 Pro to 5.5 Pro, approximately a 2 % leap in approximately the last two months.

27:28Peter Diamandis:What does that tell me? That tells me that we're seeing now approximately 1 % gains per month in research level math coming from frontier AIs. And we're getting closer to approximately half of all of the frontier math tier four problems getting solved. So you can extrapolate this and realize if the present rate just stays the same, which I guarantee it won't, it's going to accelerate. But even just at the present pace, we're talking about essentially all Frontier Math Tier 4, all professional research-grade math problems being solved in the next four or five years. So math is cooked. I'll say it, you know, second time, math is cooked.

28:12Peter Diamandis:A bunch of other things are cooked as well. But things are moving so quickly now that on a month-by-month basis, we're able to see the hardest of these benchmarks creep up 1 % per month. So not long now. It's worth pointing out that the API pricing on 5.5 is twice that of 5.4. So it's$5 per million input tokens versus$2.50 on 5.4 and$30 per million output tokens versus$15. I like the simplicity of that pricing. Dave, have you been playing with this at all?

28:44Dave Blundin:Yeah, absolutely. And I think what Alex said earlier in the pod is really, really important and insightful. Like Noam Brown is saying, wow, maybe the weights don't matter so much as this chain of thought process is just way ahead of any expectations on how intelligent it can get. From a user's point of view, that first benchmark, Terminal Bench, if you ask it to do something complicated, like configure an entire system for you, download some software, integrate it, make it all work, connect it to my Outlook, connect it to my whatever, it just works. and that exactly ties to that first benchmark.

29:19Dave Blundin:It just flat out works. And so it just feels like this incredibly capable, brilliant assistant no matter what you're trying to do because of that first benchmark. Then the last benchmark, the frontier math, or second to last, frontier math, you know, Demis Hassabis came out and said, yeah, I think it's kind of a coin flip. This was on Alex's innermost loop. You know, it's kind of a coin flip now on whether just the existing architecture scaled up solves everything. Yeah. I think CoinFlip, he's moved a long way. He has. You know, we need new breakthroughs.

29:53Peter Diamandis:We're out of breakthroughs, apparently. I remember 10 plus years ago when I was chatting with Demis, he used to say there were five breakthroughs remaining between where we were then and AGI as he construed it. Now we're out of them. It's half a breakthrough or zero breakthroughs at this point. You know, next week, we're going to be on with Ray Kurzweil again. We're doing that May 4th event for the launch of We Are As Gods. And I'm curious, we should ask him, you know, what does he think? What's required to get to true AGI or ASI? Are we just going to extrapolate what we're doing or do we need breakthroughs?

30:26I think that that requirement's been falling.

30:31Dave Blundin:It is a bitter lesson. I mean, it's starting to feel a lot like, actually, Alex, you know, would be great for that is to put together a chart of Dennis's number of breakthroughs, which because at Davos, it was down to two. Now it's down to 50-50, then it's zero. But you mentioned five. That was what, maybe a year and a half ago? So yeah, that'd be a really cool chart.

30:50Peter Diamandis:The five number from him was when I was chatting with him in, this is 10 plus years ago. Yeah. Okay. Well, you know, some sort of exponential decay of breakthroughs, clearly. Alex, you said it a little bit earlier, you know, this is ultimately a compute race. So let's talk about that. You know, a couple of stories here around Google Cloud and Google Cloud is dominating. So what do we see? We see Google announcing at Google Cloud Next 2026, their major conference. They unveiled their eighth generation of TPUs, in particular TPU 8T for training and TPU 8I for inference. Now we have training and inference chips separately, just like Amazon has their Tranium chips for training and their Inferentia chips for inference.

31:42These new TPUs are three times faster in training performance, 80 % better performance per dollar. They're designed to run millions of agents in real time. So Google is really all in on the agentic era. Sundar Pichai, the CEO, who I had a chance to spend some time with last weekend, he made it crystal clear. It says over 16 billion tokens per minute being processed, and 75 % of Google's code is now written by AI. So fascinating. Dave, what do you make of this?

32:14Dave Blundin:You know what's surprising to me is that the price performance of the TPUs is landing right on top of NVIDIA, not much different at all, which is surprising because it's a completely different architecture. It uses a systolic array design. I mean, it could not be more different from a GPU under the covers. but for whatever reason, it's all kind of canceling out and landing identical, which is fine from Google's point of view because now they have their own total, you know, chip fab through data center, through model solution. Yeah. I'm still, I still believe Google's the winner in the long run here across the board.

32:48I don't know if you agree with that.

32:50Dave Blundin:TerraFab is a big thing. That's true. I'm sorry. Yes. Okay. I'm thinking in the open AI and Anthropic ecosystem. You know, TerraFab. On the other hand, Google owns a material percentage of SpaceX. They do. They do. I don't know if you saw there was a tweet out recently about Google's investments that were made. And they just had massive returns on their investments on SpaceX, on Anthropic, across the board. Huge returns. Yeah, I was at a board meeting yesterday, a company that I'm the chairman of that has massive cash flow and a huge cash balance. And they were like, well, I don't know if a public company can really do seed stage investments.

33:28Dave Blundin:I was like, have you looked at Google? They have multiple hundred billion dollar gains on their investments and they don't even do it for the money. They do it for the knowledge. Well, and strategic relationships, right? Larry and Sergey were just bonding with Elon and they said, OK, Google is going to invest a billion dollars. And now it's worth, you know, God knows how many hundreds times more.

33:50Peter Diamandis:It's also just investing in the future. Sure. I remember conversations with Larry and Sergey about the nature of the frontier. And I think to their credit, they're investing in the frontier and SpaceX is part of it. And also compute. Epic put out this really, I think, eye-opening stat in the past week that Google now accounts for approximately a quarter of all of the AI compute on the planet. And I'm sure 8th gen TPUs will be part of it. I think it's also worth keeping in mind that the TPUs at this point are being designed by TPUs. I have a number of friends at Google who are responsible for designing next-gen TPUs, and they're all just using Google AI to do it.

34:31Peter Diamandis:The recursive self-improvement goes all the way down to the silicon at this point. Our next story in the Google ecosystem, again, also announced at their large Cloud Next conference, is Google commits to 960 ,000 NVIDIA Vera Rubin GPUs for their A5X. So pretty extraordinary. A5X is Google's new bare metal virtual machine instance, delivering 10x lower inference costs and 10x higher token throughput. Just an interesting FYI, Vera Rubin, for whom these chips are named, was an American astronomer who discovered the first conclusive evidence of dark matter. I love the fact that Jensen is naming chips and systems after famous individuals.

35:20Now, what I find fascinating, this goes back to the conversation a minute ago, is that this cloud is two times bigger than Colossus 2 and 2.4 times bigger than Stargate Abilene. So Google is winning on, at least based on what they're building and plan to build. Again, Dave, thoughts here?

35:40Dave Blundin:Well, you know, part of the, just to touch on one thing you said there, Peter, part of the acceleration we're seeing in society as a whole is that all the really, really smart people are working on real tech now. Yeah, hardware. Hardware and space and medicine and like real tech. And, you know, if you go back to the meta era, the Facebook era, the rewards were all in either, you know, cheesy consumer experiences or banking. and doing deep tech was kind of a like a way to to die poor so it's creating a whole new era for society you know the post-ai era we all knew it was going to be very very different but now the rewards are in actual deep tech that benefits humanity in really big fundamental ways but i think if you just counted the number of people that you know that have been pulled into this vortex you know it would have been just a few percent working on world-changing deep tech real stuff just 15, 20, 30 years ago.

36:35Dave Blundin:Now it's almost everybody that you know is getting pulled into do something big and world-changing, and it's actually working. And so that's a big change for society. So that's helping accelerate things as well. All right. Our next story is Anthropic is cutting deals for cash and compute. I mean, huge amount of capital flying back and forth between the Frontier Labs and the hyperscalers here. So Google commits to a$40 billion investment in Anthropic. So last week, Google committed to a ton of money,$10 billion in cash right now at a$350 billion valuation. And note, we talked about this last time, Anthropic on the secondary markets is now at a trillion-dollar valuation.

37:19So this$350 billion is coming in at roughly one-third the cost of what others are paying for it. And they committed to another$30 billion if Anthropic hits certain performance targets as well. They're going to be providing five gigawatts of TPU compute committed over five years. That's the equivalent of literally providing power to three to four million people. I'm finding this pretty extraordinary. We're going to see in a moment a conversation where Anthropic has cut deals with Amazon in a similar fashion. Actually, let me go ahead and hit that, and we'll talk about this money for guns conversation that's going on.

38:01So Amazon and Anthropic are trading cash for compute. So here's the second deal. Amazon is investing a total of$33 billion. They've committed to$25 billion on top of the$8 billion they've already invested. In return for Amazon's cash, Anthropic is committing to spend$100 billion or more on AWS over the next decade. Anthropic will run Claude on Amazon's custom Tranium chips. And Amazon will provide five gigawatts of AI compute capacity for Anthropic. So, I mean, we're seeing Anthropic becoming beholden to both AWS and Google in a significant fashion. Gentlemen, thoughts on this one?

38:45Dave Blundin:Well, it's so funny to me. Like, obviously, Anthropic needs much, much more compute and is growing. Oh, actually, a very good friend of ours, Peter, I won't mention him on the podcast, but he's an investor in Anthropic. And he was telling me at the board meeting yesterday, he can figure it out from that comment, but he was telling me at the board meeting yesterday that Anthropic, under the covers, is thinking they might hit between$40,$50, up to$70 billion in revenue by the end of the year. We talked about$100 billion by the end of the year a few pods ago. But still, I mean, they were at 30 billion last month, doubling, tripling.

39:17It's extraordinary.

39:18Dave Blundin:And the only reason they wouldn't hit those numbers is because they can't get enough compute to keep up with the demand. And one of the things was they didn't release Mythos because they didn't have enough compute to deal with it, right? So it's a limited release of the capabilities. Yeah, and OpenAI cut Sora. I think one of the reasons is probably compute. Which is energy. Yeah, which is energy. And I think that it's so funny to me to see all these deals. So, okay, so Dario needs compute. He signs up with Amazon. You know, Google's already a shareholder in Anthropic. And now OpenAI is going to be running on GCP and also on Bedrock on Amazon.

40:00Dave Blundin:So you can get it through Bedrock. So everybody's partnering with everybody else, but it's all bottlenecked at TSMC. Like, this is all great. You can all partner with each other up the yin-yang, but whose chips are actually going to get made? And you don't see TSMC in any of these podcasts, in any of these deals, in any of these meetings. And you saw Jensen actually recently say he doesn't have any long-term agreement with TSMC. They just kind of make it up as they go. So all of this is bottlenecked. And only Elon is talking about, look, the fundamental constraint to all of this is the tariff ab.

40:35Dave Blundin:And I already locked up$16 billion, could be$45 billion of Samsung's capacity. The only three companies in the world capable of making any of this are Samsung, Intel, and TSMC. And that's the actual bottleneck to all of AI. Only Elon will talk about it. Alex, is it compute or is it energy at the end of the day right now?

40:55Peter Diamandis:I think they're indistinguishable at this point. I think permitting for on-site energy is a major limiting factor. I think it's probably on balance more of a limiting factor at this point, maybe not a year from now, than TSMC. But it is a limiting factor. Having powered land, having data centers that you can take all of these, you know, infamously Microsoft, even in the past few months, spoke about having lots of GPUs that they'd love to rack mount in a data center, but lacking the powered land and lacking the data centers to plug them in. And I think at this moment, energy, at least in the US, but I agree with Dave that in the medium to long term, semiconductor fabrication supply chains, doubly so if there's any geopolitical conflict, are likelier to be a stranglehold once we solve our energy story.

41:46So let's talk about the not investment advice segment here. You know, where do you invest your capital? You know, if compute and energy, I mean, I'm seeing the energy stocks beginning to fly. A friend of mine just had this IPO of X Energy and it popped like 30 % in the first day. We're seeing Bloom Energy and other energy stocks beginning to skyrocket, creep up over the time. So I don't know if you're going to invest in chips. Do you invest? We saw Intel pop up and AMD. I mean, all of these guys, that entire ecosystem of chips and energy, ultimately, if they're really the constraining part of the innermost loop here, I think the most demand is there.

42:36Any thoughts, Dave?

42:38Dave Blundin:Oh, so many thoughts. You could go for an hour on just this topic. But invest like crazy in anybody who has access to chips and can find a power supply. That's pretty straightforward. There are power supplies everywhere. where all these legacy manufacturing operations, aluminum melting and all that, uses a huge amount of electricity. And swapping it over to data center is a massive increase in the value of that energy supply. But you have to have a line on the chips. Then at the kernel level, because the chips are so constrained and the demand is through the roof, at the kernel level, anyone who's writing software at the kernel level that empowers AMD chips or legacy GPUs to participate, or just makes the inference more efficient on NVIDIA chips, those companies are worth a fortune.

43:27Dave Blundin:So anyone who's building kernel-level software is a brilliant investment. And then in the vertical use cases, Anthropic rolled out something called Skills, which you should absolutely play with. It's just a way to use the context window more efficiently by designing skills that the AI can then pull in So rather than have to reinvent everything every time, just build a skill, and then you can call on the skill very efficiently. So companies are now discovering they can refactor their entire business or their entire whatever they do around 100 or 1 ,000 different defined skills. But those skills then become the defendable intellectual property within that vertical domain.

44:08Dave Blundin:So, you know, any vertical domain where you're racing to build out the entire skill database for that use case is also an unstoppable investment theme right now. I could go forever. The other thing that's interesting is that both Google and Amazon are getting their shares in Anthropic at one-third the going rate. I find that extraordinary. You know,$350 billion valuation versus the trillion-dollar valuation. Well, it shows you how important the compute is. I mean, again, you're going to be sold out forever if you can get the compute. And these hyperscalers are kind of hedging their bets, right?

44:44They're not picking a winner. They're buying every horse in the race, you know, because this, you know, AGI, ASI race is just way too important to lose. So, they're just investing left, right, and center.

44:55Peter Diamandis:I would also just parse these as the market doing what the market does. Some of the participants, some of the frontier labs like Anthropic have an insatiable hunger for the compute. and they have the revenue generation to generate the demand and sustain the demand. And so if you're anthropic, you're going to go to every possible source at scale of compute that you can find, whether it's Amazon or whether it's Google or whether it's other sources. You're just going to go and seek, as a hungry customer for compute, whatever the market will provide. I don't think necessarily the story needs to be any more complicated than that.

45:34Peter Diamandis:it turns out the world demands a lot of compute to solve some of these really interesting problems in code generation and otherwise. And what we're going to see over time is all of this demand is going to translate into supply. It's going to translate in the short term into what looks superficially like a bit of a circular economy between, call it the top 10 or 12 companies after We see the IPOs of SpaceX and OpenAI and Anthropik. But that's going to diffuse throughout the economy over the next few years, would be my prediction. People are hungry for compute. Salim was hungry for bandwidth. Salim, welcome back.

46:12I see you're in a stationary situation. I'm from the airport now in a stationary spot. So let's see. Dude, I'm just going to call you Waldo from now on. All right. Let's move on. A couple of fun stories. I'm going to add this segment every time for the podcast, which is what did Claude just kill? So this is the stock chart for eBay. And this comes out from Anthropic Research. It says, new Anthropic Research project deal. We created a marketplace for employees in our San Francisco office with one big twist. We tasked Claude with buying, selling, and negotiating on our colleague's behalf, basically doing what eBay does.

46:52and we see a drop in the stock price. You know, I think this is, you know, eBay's not really dropped anywhere beyond this, but I think this is going to be more and more common. Any thoughts, Dave?

47:05Dave Blundin:Well, I think a lot of this is just, you know, immediate knee-jerk fear reaction, but then things kind of settle out and you realize, wait, Anthropic is going to build all kinds of marketplaces because they can, but it's not going to hurt eBay, you know. I think what you're going to see more and more is AI is growing so quickly that it's going to largely grow around the legacy economy. So around the banks, around the insurance. It's just going to be its own world. And it's going to be feeding on itself and building just, you know, colossally large constructs that some people are not even aware of.

47:35Dave Blundin:And it'll all happen very, very quickly. So I think eBay will be fine. Salim, any thoughts here, Salim? I have a slightly different take. You know, there's so many places because lots of problems in companies exist because coordination is hard. and AI makes coordination easy. And that's going to threaten big chunks of places, marketplaces, customer support, listing optimization, dispute handling. There's a huge categories of these that will become authentic workflows. And I think the bigger question about what did the AI just kill is what workflow category did it just encompass and automate? You want to hear something cool related to this?

48:15Dave Blundin:The data center CEO that I met with this morning, We were talking about data centers going into space because power is basically free. Solar is basically free in space. And he said data centers, there's power all over the planet that's not tapped, that doesn't disrupt society at all. That's not why data centers are going into space. Data centers are going into space because there's no regulatory authority preventing it. You try to do anything on the earth. I mean, that's not true. You still have to, if you're going to be flying all these data centers and communicating, you need licensing, you know, domestically and the ITU for bandwidth.

48:53I mean, there are going to be regulatory hurdles that, you know, Elon and Google need to get, especially if you're launching 500 ,000 satellites. I mean, when you're putting up a debris field like that, there's going to be pushback. There is going to be pushback.

49:09Dave Blundin:Yeah, it's interesting.

49:11Peter Diamandis:I'll square the circle here and say, I think in the short term for sun synchronous orbit, yeah, that requires FCC and other approvals. In the long term, if we start to, say, launch AI data centers from the moon, that will probably, and we're building them on the moon, that will probably require fewer approvals, at least under the current regulatory regime. I'll let you go back. That's 20 years away to actually get manufacturing on the moon. I'm talking about - 20 years away, Peter? You know, listen, if you look at it deeply, I mean, I know 20 years away is infinity. I get that. But we're talking about, I mean, just to be clear, the stuff I'm concerned about is the next five years, right?

49:57But if you're launching, we talked to Elon about this, you know, 500 ,000, you know, V3, you know, satellites in a constellation. There's going to be debris issues. You know, Elon pushed it off by saying, oh, you know, we'll have super intelligence to figure that out. I just, you know, we have this, everything, everything looks amazing from far away. But the reality is by the time it comes closer, there are real issues. And so it's not going to be just the promised land of going to space. We're going to have challenges going there still.

50:36Dave Blundin:Yeah, it's interesting how the timelines line up too, because between here and there, there's all kinds of constraints. But between here and there, we'll have solved all math and we'll have discovered all kinds of new physics. And so— Listen, I'm the space cadet. I'm the super space enthusiast here. And I can hope for nothing more than that vision to happen. But it's always easier on the promised land.

51:00Peter Diamandis:Peter, I'm gobsmacked to hear that you think it's going to be 20 years before we have fabs on the moon. My goodness. Fabs on the moon manufacturing and pumping into Earth orbit with mass drivers. Yeah. You think that's 20 years away? Okay. Maybe 15. But it's not the next five years. Do I hear 10? It's hard for me. It's hard for me. I guess optimist robots will improve that. Demand will improve that. But, you know, the concern is if you have a, you know, in a, not an explosion, but a collision of spacecraft in orbit generating debris, we still don't have any mechanism for removing debris from orbit.

51:41And so it's going to be a challenge.

51:44Peter Diamandis:I'll make two dramatic predictions here. Your concern is, briefly, your concern is Kessler syndrome? Kessler syndrome, yes. It's going to sabotage moon-based fabs? No, it's going to sabotage the next five years of 500 ,000 satellites in Earth orbit. I mean, right now we have 10 ,000 satellites from Starlink, right, which is the most ever pumped into orbit ever. And we're talking about 50 times that. And we're talking about not just the U.S., you know, Amazon's going to do their best, right? Jeff is not going to stand still while Elon's doing this. And then you've got Chinese constellations. So do you double or triple that number of satellites in orbit?

52:26I mean, listen, I can't wait. And it's going to have challenges. Salim, you were going to say? Yeah, I'll give a couple of thoughts here. With just finger in the air here, I think humanoid robots are five to seven years away minimum at mass scale in widespread adoption. Okay? Minimum. I don't agree with that, but that's okay. I agree. I understand. And I think a fab lab on the moon and consistently doing fabrication and all that stuff is 15 years away minimum. So I'll say that. Not that it's not coming. It's just a question of it's a when, not an if. Oh, my goodness.

53:06Peter Diamandis:This is lunacy, utter lunacy here. We are the Moonshots podcast. Yes. Can we get back just maybe to Project Deal and Anthropic? I think we're missing an important point. Everyone who hand rings over the latest Anthropic project purportedly sabotaging or killing some SaaS company, Anthropic doesn't want to be triggering SaaSpocalypses left and right. There's relatively little economic motivation there. I think if you look through the through line, through all of these Anthropic projects or research projects, other than the alignment ones, Anthropic, all of their projects can be explained by, and corporate strategies and unhobblings can be explained by a very simple principle.

53:50Peter Diamandis:They're trying to maximize the economic value per token. That's all that they're trying to do. I love that. Claude code, it turns out through Claude code, code gen is actually quite economically valuable per token. Turns out, per token, it's more valuable to generate useful working code than, say, to generate video or cat images or whatever other consumer plays OpenAI and some other frontier model providers we're chasing. They've dropped that now. Everyone's focusing on CodeGen because on a per token basis, it's so economically valuable. So I would look at projects like Project Deal, running a marketplace, running a business, as Anthropic looking for new ways to increase the per-token economic value of their output.

54:36Peter Diamandis:It's as simple as that. I think it's brilliant, Alex. Yeah. That's absolutely brilliant. Thank you. To move us along here, we're coming into the battle season. It's Elon versus Sam in OpenAI. This just got posted today. So today is the start of a very important day in the AI world. The trial between Elon and Sam and OpenAI begins in the Oakland federal court. The jury selection is happening right now. So I just put this up to keep us posted. We'll be learning a lot. Of course, Discovery is unveiling a lot of text, a lot of emails that I bet both Elon and Sam and a lot of other people would rather not have erred in the public.

55:20Any thoughts here, gents?

55:22Peter Diamandis:I think it's sort of sad that it's come to this. It's going to make, just one remembers the Bill Gates versus Steve Jobs docudramas that were made from critical Apple versus Microsoft era. This has, I think, a similar feel to it. It's sort of sad that I think this ended up in court versus settling earlier on. But I do think many will, I think history will probably view this as sort of an iconic struggle that will get the full Aaron Sorkin, if not similar, like movie treatment. This will be the full Hollywood type. Totally agree. Titanic battle. Yeah. Salim, any thoughts here? How's this playing in Guadalajara?

56:06No recognition awareness at all. And that's probably a good thing. This is kind of soap operation. I'm with Alex on this one. It's just heavy drama. We wish it hadn't come to this. It would have been great to get these guys to settle off the thing. But their positions are hard and baked in. And so it's going to come to this. How do you unravel the movement from OpenAI to a for-profit company? I mean, do you back it up to a nonprofit? And then what about all the capital invested in OpenAI? Does that disappear if they lose the case here? I'd like to do it more.

56:40Peter Diamandis:I mean, I've said, I think, on the POD in the past that if the model of changing nonprofits, large nonprofits, to public benefit corporations can be scaled, I'd love to do this to a number of major American research universities. That's not my question. My question is how, you know, what happens to all the capital invested, you know, literally hundreds of$122 billion in the last couple of months? You know, there's so much pressure for this court case not to be won by Elon. Well, I mean, if you're following the detailed TikTok of the way that this trial is being structured, it's being structured in two phases.

57:16Peter Diamandis:The first phase is more of deciding whether the claims that Elon et al. have made are, in fact, the case. And the second is the equivalent of a reward-type section, deciding what awards, if any, to make as conditioning on the first phase. But I think there are a number of details in this court case that are notable. One is, so jury selection. There's been public reporting that already selected members of the jury are aware of entanglements that Elon's had with the present administration and may view him negatively as a result. I think that's the fact that jury members are being selected reportedly with some political influence seeping in.

58:07Peter Diamandis:I think that's very interesting. I also think it's interesting that the district judge in this case has, again, reportedly decided that she's going to take the jury outcome as an advisory opinion, but that if there is an award, she's going to decide ultimately from the bench on the final award. So there are a lot of nuances here. Wow. Dave, any thoughts, opinions here?

58:34Dave Blundin:Yeah, do we ever figure out if we get to see it live? No, it's not being broadcast, but I'm sure they're going to be sort of court reporters giving us a lot of details here.

58:43Peter Diamandis:You can wait for the full Hollywood treatment in a couple years. By the way, there will be a Hollywood treatment of this. It's guaranteed. With every other major. Of course, it may be an AI generated feature film, but nonetheless. It will be for sure.

58:56Dave Blundin:Well, I'm surprised how many texts like personal texts have already come out. You know, the emails get discovered right away and all your email gets thrown out there for the wild to read, which is crazy, but it happens. But texts traditionally have not been thrown out, but yet we're seeing them all. So I don't know exactly how that's happening. But, you know, for Elon to win, he doesn't have to win the case. He just has to slow down OpenAI. I mean, in the middle of the singularity, if you lose three months, you're basically lost. You're cooked. All right. Another fun topic. A few stories here.

59:31It's about AI surveillance and privacy. So let's check this out. OpenAI's Chronicle uses agents to build memories from screenshots. So Sam Altman described this one as telepathy-like. So Chronicle runs on OpenAI's codecs where background agents are taking periodic snapshots of everything on your screen. The screenshots are sent to OpenAI's servers for processing. Agents use optical character recognition and visual analysis to extract the context of what you're doing every minute on your screen. Structured memory files are created and stored locally. And, you know, we talked about this before, AI monitoring everything.

1:00:15Ultimately, it's sort of the camel's nose under the tent of being able to replace any worker. You know, we have significant privacy concerns that come up on this and no one's raising that. I don't know if you guys remember when I was researching this. So Microsoft had launched something recently called a recall. It was a product that they put out there and then they retracted because all the cybersecurity people said this is a privacy nightmare. It's litigation bait. And they pulled it back. But when OpenAI announced this product, no one's pushed back.

1:00:55Peter Diamandis:Can I first of all point out what a beautiful double entendre from Microsoft's crack product marketing department naming a feature recall and then recalling it? Nice. I think what we're seeing here is one big architectural kludge. And I think it's going to be kludgy, both from Microsoft's perhaps ill-architected recall, as well as OpenAI Chronicle. This wants to be built into the operating system and the hardware. It doesn't want to be an add-on. I don't think, I'll just speak for myself, I don't want an agent taking constant screenshots of my desktop, sending it to a server, and then parsing it, sending back results.

1:01:35Peter Diamandis:This should all be built Apple-style. I would hope that Apple will get its act together in the next few months and build this into the window manager and the compositor and the operating system. The operating system is rendering the screen. Why can't the operating system understand what it's rendering? I mean, this is ambient AI is the term of art here, where AI is monitoring everything all the time and enabling you, right? This is, in one sense, this is what I did this past weekend with my OpenClaw, with Skippy, where I gave it access to everything. Every single granola gets put into memory, every WhatsApp message, every email, every calendar, everything.

1:02:15And it just makes it so much more useful. And I think something like Chronicle as well would just enable it to be, like Sam said, telepathy.

1:02:25Dave Blundin:Well, that's the quandary. I mean, a lot of people who get in trouble with AI, you know, or they get stuck, it's something they're doing on screen. The AI doesn't have visibility into it. But if you unlock that, the AI can be incredibly helpful, but it's also seeing literally every mouse move. But when we talk about our moms are still not using AI, why not? This is a big unlock, a big part. The voice interface and this are the two big unlocks because it can then say, oh, I see what you're doing wrong. In fact, let me just do it for you and save you the trouble. And that, you know, all these configuration screens on any Apple device and, you know, the menus are ridiculous now.

1:02:59Dave Blundin:Like, you know, the number of layers of configuration you can do. I think something like some crazy stat, like 70, 80 percent of all iPhone users never change any defaults. Yeah. It's just too confusing to do anything. So this is a huge unlock for all of that. But like you said, it's hugely intrusive. Right now, you know, I take screenshots and I send it to Claude or whomever and say, hey, can you please help me figure this out? But this is going to have sort of a, you know, sort of an expert over your shoulders, always there to support you if you need it. Well, most people, when they first start playing with AI, like Alex's standard first query, you know, to test a new model is build me a first person shooter.

1:03:42Dave Blundin:It's a better prompt than that. Sorry to bastardize that, Alex. But people want to do something visual and graphical to learn how it all works. And then when it doesn't work, they want to show the AI, hey, this doesn't look right to me. Fix it. So they screenshot it just like Alex or just like Peter you just said. They screenshot it. But here this is just a much more convenient way to get video, not just a screenshot, back into the AI's brain and say, look, this doesn't look right. Fix it for me. And so you have a much more fun dialogue with the AI. But you have to accept that privacy is being compromised there.

1:04:18Peter Diamandis:I'll take a very different position here, Peter, on that, which is I think any loss of privacy here is just due to this being an architectural atrocity. This wants to be built into an operating system like macOS. It wants to take advantage of the secure enclave. It wants to have secure hardware that's cryptographically guaranteeing that as it captures pixels that come out of the compositor and the window manager and the renderer, that all of those are securely handled and kept local. The reason that this is one big privacy dumpster is because it's not being baked into the hardware and local operating system.

1:04:55Peter Diamandis:But that can be fixed. And it will be fixed. And I want that. You know, I've often said I'm going to give up everything, every piece of detail because I want my AI systems to be that much powerful. Salim, you're back with us. Talk to me about what do you think about this? I think this is a I agree with Alex. Two other things, though. One is that this is going to cause massive privacy issues for workers. I'm worried about Big Brother watching over them. Already today, there's a crazy statistic that 44 percent of Gen Z workers are sabotaging AI's efforts to automate their own work. They're putting in the wrong data, throwing off the AI training.

1:05:31It's really crazy what's happening right now in workplaces. So I think this will just exacerbate it and bring this whole conversation to the front.

1:05:39Dave Blundin:I talk about a losing battle. You're far, far better getting on the wagon than you are trying to do that. That's such poisonous behavior.

1:05:46Peter Diamandis:Protect your job.

1:05:57Thank you.

1:06:27Thank you.

1:06:57Thank you.

1:07:42All right, here's our next story. Basically, world ID verification integration into Zoom. And here it is. So the backstory, I think that's important here. So in 2024, engineering firm called Arup, A-R-U-P, lost$25 million after an employee in Hong Kong authorized a series of wire transfers during what appeared to be a routine video call with the company's CFO and several colleagues. The problem is that everyone on the call except the victim turned out to be an AI-generated deepfake. We've seen similar attacks in multinational firms in Singapore. and the impact of this is huge, right? So what we saw in 2019 to 2023 was$130 million in losses due to deep fakes.

1:08:322024 was 400 million. 2025 last year, it was a billion. It's projected to reach$40 billion by 2027. And so step in our friend Sam with his device called the Orb that takes a photo of the back of your retina and you verify on Zoom that you're an actual human. It uses world ID and a real-time face authentication from a selfie as well as video. And it says, yes, yay, verily, this person is a human. So, and you get a verified human badge on your Zoom link. Did you just say yay, verily? That's fantastic. We're right back in Shakespeare here. That's awesome. Yay, verily, you're a human. I love it. You still have to go and actually scan your eyeball in one of these orbs.

1:09:25Has anybody done it? Have you guys done this yet? No.

1:09:28Dave Blundin:No. Apparently, it's bouncing all over Africa. People are scanning away, but I haven't done it yet. But I love it because I don't know if I told you, Peter, but I was on stage here at a company-wide meeting, and we took a little five-minute break in the middle, and our controller came up to me and said, Dave, I'm so sorry. I only got half of those wire transfers to China out. I'll get the other out right away. Seriously? What are you talking about? So I got back on stage. I'm like, I wonder what she was talking about. So then the whole second half of the company meeting, in the back of my mind, I'm like, wait a minute.

1:09:58Dave Blundin:So I got off. When I got off, she said, okay, I got$300 ,000 out. And I'm like, what are you doing? She's like, well, you told me it was an emergency, and we've got to get the money to China right away. Why would we be wiring money to China? I don't understand. So anyway, only about$75 ,000 got across the border. We never got that back. and the rest of the FBI got into it right away. But I'm like, man, digital transfers like this, everything should be logged anyway. I really feel like the digital fraud world is going to get solved, and this is a big part of it, but everything should be logged all the time.

1:10:35Dave Blundin:It shouldn't be that hard to deal with digital stuff. I'm much more worried about chemical, biological, radiological stuff than I am about digital stuff, because I think we're going to get it fixed, and this is part of it. Yeah.

1:10:48Peter Diamandis:Alex, any thoughts here? This is Minority Report. This is the sci-fi future that we're catching up with. Apple, with its face ID, was focused on the face, not on the retina. But if you remember the Tom Cruise, Steven Spielberg Minority Report division, this is it. I think it's been interesting to watch as worlds evolve from world coin. And it's been interesting to watch as the company bounced back and forth between more crypto-focused and the economics of it versus the identification of human as a human side of it. But it seems, you know, from a distance, like the human identity verification side is ultimately the bigger seller than the crypto side.

1:11:34Peter Diamandis:And to the extent that's the case, as resident crypto bear, I'm very supportive. We will have that debate, Salim. Don't worry about it. So there's a wild irony here that the more AI scales, the more valuable verified human identity becomes. This is kind of interesting. Yeah. Sorry, Peter. Yeah, no. So here's this next story that's related. So Grok creates a realistic AI French woman with a reflective ID. I'm going to play this little video here and take a look at it very carefully as she holds her driver's license up to the camera. Look how beautiful and real this looks.

1:12:21So this was posted and it went viral by this gentleman, Dr. David Lutzke. He says this AI French woman was created by Grok, complete with perfectly reflective ID, a few more months and video ID verification may no longer be reliable. So, I mean, how many times have you taken, you know, a picture of your license or your passport and uploaded it? It is going to become more and more difficult. We're going to have white hat, black hat competitions up the wazoo here. Alex?

1:12:52Peter Diamandis:Well, I would maybe just comment the IDs themselves should be verifiable with a centralized database. That's how you can maintain a single source of truth. And whether people are flashing IDs or not, maybe less of a centralized database, not a blockchain. But good one, Peter. Good one. I'm just poking you, buddy. I'm just poking you. I also think, you know, there are so many other technologies that we have to bring to bear. We can do hardware level cryptography, for example, chain of custody for video. It's not that as a civilization we lack the technologies to ensure that any video or images actually originated from the real world without tampering.

1:13:35Peter Diamandis:It's just that we lack the demand for it right now. And I would predict that if ever the situation of deepfaking gets so bad that it's causing real problems at a societal level, that'll just unlock all of these technological solutions, including hardware level crypto for cameras, cryptography, not cryptocurrencies. that the market will speak for itself and we'll get all those tech. And I'm still waiting for the laws to come out that require all, you know, Grok and every other video generation to really identify it as AI generated. There's a bill work. I covered in my newsletter, Inhermost Loop, there is a bill right now, bipartisan bill working its way through the House that will cover elements of deepfake fingerprinting like that.

1:14:22Yeah, yeah.

1:14:23Peter Diamandis:Yeah. All right. Let's move ourselves along here. We're going to talk about the economic impact of AI. There is a lot going on. Token maxing, word of the year. So this is from a report from 404media.co. Startup CEOs who are token maxing are bragging that they are spending more money on AI compute than it would cost to hire human workers. Astronomical AI bills are now in a certain corner of the tech world, supposed to be the marker of growth and success. Look how much I'm spending on my tokens, everybody. You should invest in me so I can spend more on tokens. Dave.

1:15:00Dave Blundin:No, this is a warped story. This is a great thing. The way you get left behind is by not trying. That's the worst thing you can do right now is not get in the race, not play with AI, not try. And token maxing is fine. Like, you know, a CEO that's proud of the fact that they're consuming a ton of tokens, you can come and optimize it later in the year. But get every one of your people on their AI platform like now, like yesterday, and go ahead and start burning the tokens. And then you'll have no trouble making it more efficient later if you get in the game now. So I think it's great when a startup CEO says, I burned, you know,$3 million of venture money on compute.

1:15:43Dave Blundin:Fine. You're learning a ton along the way. And, you know, nobody incinerates money for very long. You know, they're not that irrational. So this is just sort of the backlash story. What was the Jensen factor? It was like half your salary in tokens. I'm saying, yeah, I'm saying you're full-size. Like I'm telling everybody by end of year, so you have, you know, you have nine months, 50-50 is a good target. Half payroll, half token use. And then again, you're not going to have any trouble optimizing it. You know, the token use is effectively about a 10x force multiplier. So if you're one-to-one, it's like I've got one humans and 10 AI equivalents in my bucket of endeavor.

1:16:22Dave Blundin:So I'm actually underinvested in tokens at that point relative to human salary. So one-to-one is a better target, I think. Salim, are you doing that? Well, I think the bigger, the more healthy question is, what's the ratio of tokens to reducing iterations and maximizing efficiency rather than just a raw spend? I think for now, raw spend is fine, but that's kind of vanity metric, right? You're better off kind of looking at it as to what extent can you compress iteration cycles? That'll be where it will end up. It's what Alex, you said earlier. It's dollars per token. Exactly. Economic income per token.

1:17:01I think that's a great term.

1:17:02Dave Blundin:If you ask a great, great salesperson, how many miles did you fly this year? Sure. That's a terrible metric of sales productivity. But if the answer is zero, it tells you it's a bad salesperson. Like, I think it's great when a salesperson said, oh, I had a million mile year last year and they're proud of it. Like, that's great. You know, it's not the right metric, but it tells you they're like, they're proud of what they do. And token maxing is a lot like that, I think.

1:17:27Peter Diamandis:Alex, close us out on this one. Yeah, I've seen a variety of asset allocations in recent months between humans and AIs. I think tokens to humans is one interesting way of framing that. A pessimist will look at this and say, this is replacement theory. This is humans being replaced by AIs. How awful. An optimist will look at this and say, how incredible we're empowering fewer people to do more and achieving higher per capita productivity within an organization. What I don't hear very many people asking is, where does this end? So right now, I see asset allocations, humans to AIs, or at least human labor versus AI compute budgets ranging from one to one, one to two at some of the frontier labs.

1:18:13Peter Diamandis:It's an even more asymmetric ratio. The question in my mind is, is there any stationary endpoint? Is there a fixed point as this evolves? I tend to think it's going to trend towards one to infinity effectively, that as we start to phase humans out of the service labor force, we're going to see all tokens and no humans. It has to. There's no other way around it. The capitalism will demand it. Totally agree. Until the humans merge with the tokens, at least. Token per neuron. All right, Salim, this was your story. So UAE launches agentic AI government models. This is from Sheikh Mohammed, the prime minister of UAE, the ruler of Dubai.

1:18:59He says, the UAE is launching a new government model. Within two years, 50 % of government sectors, all sectors, all services, operations will be run on agentic AI. The UAE will be the first government globally to operate at the scale of autonomy. Salim, brief us on this one. Yeah. So I did a talk for his highness three, four years ago and talked through where this is doing and you know minister al-olama the minister of a has a good friend of both of us peter years and mine and they are going full speed on this i gotta give them massive credit this is the benefits of the of the uh authority you can wield when you have a benevolent uh yeah i think you can just get it done and and and the when you have that you have to make sure that the the whoever's in charge is doing the right things for the country.

1:19:54And the ethos here is 100 % alignment. And they are going at a massive speed on this. Just to give you an example, I was given a golden visa, right? And I was asked to be the test case. And the thing was, could you get a golden visa authorized and issued within five hours? And they were freaking out going, you know, Singapore takes five days. And His Highness said, okay, do it in five hours. And they were for them, But they got it done. And so there's an ability to cut through legacy thinking in a very powerful way. And this is such a massive competitive advantage. We're actually working with a few of their folks in the prime minister's office on this.

1:20:36And so we're very, very excited about where this goes. There's another quote from Sheikh Mohammed. He says, quote, AI is no longer a tool. It analyzes, decides, executes and improves in real time. It will become our executive partner in enhancing services, accelerating decisions and raising efficiency. So, I mean, you can do this in an absolute monarchy. You can move this fast. I mean, what's shocking about this story is a speed at which it's moving. Right. You can there's no parliamentary approval, no public debate or consultation. And the question is, you know, can Western democracies even keep up?

1:21:13I mean, you're going to see this in probably Saudi, maybe in Singapore, other Middle Eastern nations. Can we see anything like this in the U.S.? Actually, yes, you can. And I think we will. You know, I tell the story of it used to take six months to get approval for a wind turbine. And I think it was Colorado, one of the western states. And then they finally just got together and mapped all the power lines and water mains and flight paths on a GIS, plotted on Google Maps and made it available. and now it takes like 30 seconds, right, to get approval because it knows where everything is. It doesn't need to take six months.

1:21:49And I think there's the economic impetus of this. This is the basis where I think AI can make the biggest and most incredible difference because in prescriptive workflows, you can absolutely completely automate and almost all of government, certainly implementation or policy enforcement is prescriptive workflows. We know exactly the steps to renew your drivers like this. We know exactly what needs to take place. So there's no reason why that can't be handled automagically with AI in a very short future. Step one, give a person a super frustrating experience. Step two, make them wait in line longer than they need to.

1:22:26Yes. Anyway. Dave, do you want to jump in on this story?

1:22:32Dave Blundin:Yeah, I don't think the U.S. has ever copied a good idea back from another country since the American Revolution. And, you know, we stole the British legal system. But since then, I don't think there's been anything. But this is the opportunity. Well, I mean, look, you're exactly right. You know, a monarchy can move very, very quickly. The rate at which things need to be regulated and new services need to be rolled out is way, way, way faster than any government in history has ever run before. So only AI is going to be able to do it. So if we get a great system together in the UAE, we're inevitably going to want to copy it back to the US.

1:23:06Dave Blundin:I think Peter asked the right question, though. Is the U.S. ever going to like the way Congress works? Are we ever going to take a good idea and bring it back in? Yeah, I'd bet against that. But, you know, it's the right thing to do. Weirdly, on this one, I'm more optimistic than you guys, which is weird. All right. Let's move on. We're going to have some fun here in the biomedical space. There's a new wave of biomedical innovation that's coming. And, you know, I want this segment here to give people hope. We talk about longevity escape velocity on this pod. We talk about the health span revolution.

1:23:43Well, it's happening. You know, I was with Demis last Saturday at the Breakthrough Awards talking to him, and he's absolutely convinced that we're going to cure cancer and solve all disease inside of the next, you know, five to 10 years, hopefully on the five-year side. So the first story here comes out of OpenAI. OpenAI releases ChatGPT for clinicians. So it just gave away to all U.S. clinicians, these are physicians, nurses, physician assistants, a free AI co-pilot. And this co-pilot outperforms all human doctors. So they have a health bench benchmark they use. It scored 59 versus 43.7 for human clinicians.

1:24:27Pretty extraordinary. They validated this on 700 ,000 model responses, and they got a 99.6 % accuracy using their physicians evaluating the AI versus human responses. And pretty extraordinary, something that will up-level, I think, medicine nationwide. And, you know, from my standpoint, I've been saying this for a while, I think it's going to become malpractice to diagnose a patient without AI in the loop. There is so much going on that no human doctor can possibly, you know, understand it. You know, at Fountain Life, we upload 200 gigabits of data about you. And across your genome, full imaging, full, you know, microbiome, metabolome, you know, 140 blood biomarkers.

1:25:14Humans can't analyze all that, but AIs can. So, gents, any thoughts on this? Alex, do you want to weigh in?

1:25:22Peter Diamandis:Yeah, I'll chime in and say the professions are cooked. Yes. This was a widely expected release. This wasn't a surprise. Those of you watching early releases, leaks out of OpenAI saw this coming months in advance. You can even know from those leaks what the next one to drop is, what the next profession. It's law. There's also one coming for management consulting and financial work. OpenAI, thanks to GDPVal, has, in some sense, mapped out all of the knowledge work verticals and is in a good position, thanks to their own internal and now external benchmarking, to know the relative strengths of their model as appropriately fine-tuned or post-trained for different verticals.

1:26:06Peter Diamandis:So I would expect to see many, many more of these chat GPT-4x for different verticals. In the case of clinicians, thanks to OpenEvidence and work by Epic and the form of UpToDate and other clinical AIs, this is already a somewhat crowded market that OpenAI is coming into. If I were OpenAI, I would release this sort of product more as a reference design and a way to ensure that capabilities that are built into the underlying models and then post-trained via a variety of evals are broadly available and that OpenAI maintains its status as a favored foundation model for clinical and biological work.

1:26:47Peter Diamandis:Maybe they'll try to monetize this as best they can. Right now it's available for free. But I tend to think it's worth more to OpenAI, more as a distribution channel for medical knowledge and one that they can build on. OpenAI has released a variety of statistics over the past year for how many people are self-diagnosing or otherwise trying to treat themselves using ChatGPT. And I think offering a standard regulatory compliant channel for that is a very clever way to then do a sales up pitch to biomedical enterprise and life sciences in general, which is probably where the real money is. It's also a data aggregation strategy, right?

1:27:29I mean, OpenAI is going to be getting a huge amount of data, far more verified than I feel this way or I think I might have this, you know, bringing in a million plus clinicians into the loop. The other thing that's worth saying here is that, you know, at least current estimates are that we're going to have 86 ,000, a shortage of 86 ,000 physicians in the next 10 years. But it's going to be interesting, right? I have two nieces that have gone through medical school, my sister, myself, lots of friends. And you're spending literally between college, medical school, and postgraduate training in whatever field you're going into, you're spending well over a decade and half a million, close to a million dollars to get this degree.

1:28:16And will you even need it? Is a medical doctor going to need to be in the loop or is it a nurse plus an AI that's going to be giving us all our medical advice, our diagnostics, our therapeutics with a optimist robot giving you surgery? There's a lot of change coming here.

1:28:33Dave Blundin:Yeah, a huge amount of change. And also it'll be a great case study. And like we're not about replacing doctors here. We're about detecting thousands of things that were not previously detected and cutting them off early and extending longevity and making life better. And, you know, it's not a given to me at all that the number of doctors goes down. Just the number of things we want to do goes up 100 or 1 ,000x. Are you going to spend that much money to go through medical school and get this little profession when the AI is doing the diagnosing?

1:29:04Peter Diamandis:Of course, this is about replacing doctors. I mean, let's call a spade a spade. Of course, when fully developed, this and comparable solutions are about automating away medical practice. How could they not be? And also, by the way, nursing and also, by the way, the HMOs and drug design, OpenAI and other frontier labs are all pursuing drug design and drug delivery. Of course, it's about the full picture of if you're going to solve medicine or you're just going to leave millions of human doctors practicing as sort of meat puppets for the AI. No, this is going to be the end to end solution. We're just seeing the beginning of it.

1:29:42Peter Diamandis:I agree. A couple of comments here. One is, you know, in an ideal world, the doctor is getting a cognitive exoskeleton with all of this, right? You get this amazing capability to expand your own intuitive thinking. But Alex is completely right. But on the other hand, you're going to get a huge backlash here. This is a very regulated industry. Remember a few years ago, Texas passed a law banning telemedicines, okay? Just outright banning it because, you know, for every spot on my hand, I must have to go to a physical doctor. I can never do that over video. So the immune system response is going to be very, very fierce.

1:30:15I expect to see this battle play out heavily over the next few years because there's vested interest up the yin-yang. And healthcare has the third worst immune system ever behind religion and education and academia. Yeah.

1:30:28Peter Diamandis:I'm not so sure that the immune response, if you look at what happened with the broad transition to electronic medical records, like Epic-based systems, for example, every clinician that you speak with will complain about Epic. They'll complain about EMRs, how much EMRs distract from direct interaction with the patient, all of that. And yet every major medical system is either completed or is in the late stages of, at least in this country, their EMR transition. If they can't resist EMRs, how are they going to resist strong AI that outperforms humans? Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. EMRs are kind of an add-on helpful aid because it saves you in documenting the process, etc.

1:31:09Get rid of paperwork. Yeah.

1:31:12Peter Diamandis:The clinicians hate the EMRs. They hate the interface. They hate the process. Of course. But they're going to hate this 10 times more because it's a direct replacement for the cognitive ability that they've trained for 10 years to do. So just my prediction is huge regulatory and immune system backlash on this one. And my prediction, AI labs have been using health care as the reason why they can't slow down, as well as the fight with China, right? If we slow this down, we're going to lose lives, has been sort of the heralding call. Totally, totally agreed. Everything Alex said earlier about there needs to be a wholesale replacement of the medical system is absolutely correct.

1:31:51But the path from here and there is littered with stones and speed bumps.

1:31:57Peter Diamandis:For the record, and this is sort of an interesting... Go ahead, finish up, Alex. This is an interesting micro-debate. For the record, my intuition, and I interact with a lot of clinicians, is the exact opposite. The clinicians hate the EMRs, but they love the AI that helps them do a better job of what they want to do. And there may be an extent to which AI interfaces like this end up being framed as the solution to all of their EMR woes. Until it takes their job. Well, of course. That's the way this works. Let's move this along here. Our second story here is AI to reduce wasted donor hearts. And I love, you know, I just want to show a number of stories here of how AI is going to be interfacing and changing the medical practice.

1:32:44So I don't know if you guys are an organ donor. or I am, anybody else? Yeah. So currently there's 4 ,000 patients who need a cardiac transplant today. There's 103 ,000 who need some type of a transplant, kidney, liver, lung. And when an organ donor is on the table, end of life, and the physician has to analyze the organs and decide whether they're viable for transplant, you've got like 15 minutes, typically at two o 'clock in the morning to make that decision. And so in the heart world, only a third of the hearts are ever actually chosen for transplantation. So here comes something called top heart.

1:33:23Yeah, just a third make it out the door. So here comes something called top heart from NYU and Stanford. And top heart is able to look at 20 different variables, right? Typically, the physician is looking at how old is this person? Do they have a drug history if they know? And looking at coronary artery disease to say, should we ship this off? Their goal by looking at 20 different variables is, you know, give that surgeon at 2 a.m. in the morning a second opinion. And they believe that they can get an additional 500 hearts into the organ replacement ecosystem. You know, this is on top of the fact that there's an entire, you know, sort of synthetic biology world going on right now to provide an abundance of organs from bioprinting and xenotransplantation.

1:34:09you know, pig organs, you know, the antigens being replaced by human antigens. This is the work of George Church at Egenesis and Martine Rothblatt at United Therapeutics. So, you know, this is an abundant story of going from a limited number of organs to an abundant number of organs. Alex, are you tracking this as well?

1:34:31Peter Diamandis:I'm tracking the space broadly. There are other advances as well, like trying to create a national market for organ donation versus a bunch of state markets. that would be greatly enhanced with improvements in vitrification and cryopreservation. I think it's good that there is a vibrant and growing distribution channel for donor hearts. I think that's great. But I also think it's very painful that the need for one human to die, or at least that one human dies and donates a heart to another human, that's such a zero-sum type situation. It's painful to think about. And while it's great on margin to have more efficient ways of distributing donated organs, I really, really would like us to get as soon as possible to a situation where donor organs are completely unnecessary.

1:35:31Yeah, and we will. I think eGenesis, Dean Kamen's company, advanced organ generation, they go from your skin cell to a pluripotent stem cell to regrowing your heart, liver, lung or kidney. A lot of this is gonna be up and operating by the end of this decade, hopefully sooner. Can't come soon enough. Yeah, and of course, as we have autonomous cars, having less car accidents, the ability to have organ donors is gonna become reducing, though still motorcycle accidents are probably the number one reason we get organs donated. Let's move on to our next story. And this goes in line with the fact that we are beginning, we're at the beginning of the slaying of cancer, right?

1:36:17So this is a great story. Pancreatic cancer mRNA vaccines show lasting results in trials. So I don't know if people have been tracking this, but we now have these cancer vaccines. And this is using mRNA. We used it as a COVID vaccine. This is actually the ability to create an mRNA that activates your immune system against the cancer that you have. So there are more than 120 of these trials going on against lung, breast, prostate, melanoma, pancreatic, and brain cancer. In this particular case, a five-year survival rate for pancreatic cancer has just gone through the roof. Historically, it's 13%.

1:36:57If you have pancreatic cancer, it's a death sentence. Only 13 % of people are able to survive that. So in this report, eight out of 16 patients who generate a strong immune response to the vaccine, that's 87.5 % still alive after six years. So how does this work? You have a surgery to remove as much of the tumor as you can. you sample the tumor, it's sequenced, and then that sequence is identifying 20 unique mutations in your cancer. That is then built into a personalized mRNA that activates your immune system like killer missiles, activates your killer T cells to go after and attack your cancer.

1:37:40So this is a breakthrough in how we deal with cancer. And the fact that you're durable after six years is pretty extraordinary. I remember this incredible quote from Raymond McCauley, our biotech guy at Singularity, he said, mRNA vaccines are the first battle in the last war against disease. Amazing for me. And I think this is showing up. My daughter works on this.

1:38:06Dave Blundin:My daughter works on this over at Moderna, actually, mRNA vaccines. and it's uh yeah i mean modernity got a bad rep on their mrna for covid but this is the holy grail right i mean being able to go from your cancer to here's the injection that's going to save your life is extraordinary well and if it works i thought they had a pretty good rep that's the amazing thing it's it's a universal solution like if you know when alex talks about all of math is cooked this is the difference between in the old days i solved one math problem now i have an ai it solves all math. This is the equivalent in biology where if it works, it should work everywhere.

1:38:44Yeah. Alex, you're right. I mean, mRNA was a, was, you know, project warp speed. I'm just saying afterwards, a lot of people are coming down on mRNA vaccines.

1:38:54Peter Diamandis:There's a lot of politicized griping over mRNA vaccines in general, but there's going to be political griping over almost anything at any scale. I do think, I think back quarter of a century to Eric Drexler and Engines of Creation and the National Nanotechnology Initiative when the U.S. Congress was sold a story that with billions of dollars of congressional and national investment that we would get medical nanorobots that would swim through our bloodstreams and still waiting. Cancer cells. Well, we're getting it, though, but we're not getting it with diamondoid nanorobots. We're getting it with these lipid nanoparticles and Moderna and Pfizer-style mRNA vaccines.

1:39:35Peter Diamandis:I think it's interesting to almost as a retrospective to say, we actually got the nanorobots. They're just fat. They're not silicon. They're not diamondoid. They're fat. Yeah. We're using our own machinery to do the battle for us. That's the other angle. I mean, do you have a prediction, Peter, given that immunotherapies in some sense, like really, really coarsely immunotherapies, we've known about some form of immunotherapy for 100 plus years. And people who were infected with a virus 100 years ago, in some cases, or bacterial infection, showed tumors shrinking. We've known at some level that some form of immunotherapy would work.

1:40:17Peter Diamandis:And we're only now figuring out how to fully weaponize it and operationalize it. Where do you think this goes? You think like in 10 years, we're all wearing Apple smartwatches that are looking for evidence of tumor DNA or RNA in our bloodstream and then send our daily mRNA update to a programmable implant or something? I think that is basically it. Either they're implantables or you'll be sampled on a regular basis. I mean, the goal, of course, is find it at the very beginning, especially if there are solutions. There's one more point about this that I think is really powerful. This is personalized medicine is actually becoming operational.

1:40:53And that's a huge inflection point we've been waiting for for a long time. Here's another example, again, just to give people hope and to see the data, you know, longevity mindset is about seeing this over and over and over again, saying, yeah, the world is changing. You know, the things that used to kill us are being either solved or delayed. So the single shot CAR-T infusion shows strong response from melanoma. So it's not just a strong response. It's 100 % cancer-free after a single shot. So this was an unexpected result. Within two months of treatment, all 20 patients in this trial had minimally residual disease, MRD negative, right?

1:41:30No disease identified after they were assayed again, meaning that all patients, you know, had a median follow-up of 15.3 months without any show-up of their melanoma. So it's game-changing in timing. So how does this work? You draw blood. You identify you have melanoma. The doctor finds it. We should all be scanning ourselves all the time. We do this at found using visual at a minimum. If you have a family history of skin cancer, please have yourself checked on a regular basis. So the doctor draws blood, extracts your T cells from the patient, genetically engineers the T cells, right? A gene is inserted giving those T cells a new receptor called a CAR, a chimeric antigen receptor that is specifically programmed to recognize the protein from your melanoma.

1:42:18Your T cells are then re-injected back into your body, hundreds of millions of them, and they go identify the melanoma and they slay it. For the first time ever, this type of a therapy, we're using the term cure on this particular type of... I mean, it's extraordinary. Amazing. Just another example of what's coming.

1:42:38Peter Diamandis:This is both amazing, but can you see the clumsiness of it requiring blood extraction and then CAR T cell creation in vitro? Why can't we do this in vivo? Why can't we do this in individual cells even? We're seeing the beginnings. This is almost like a horse and buggy era of immunotherapies, but surely we should be able to do this in a fully autonomous, like intracellular environment. Take the win, Alex. Take the win. Oh my God. Yeah, I want my FSD. Yes, and you shall have it. All right, here's one more story. And this is a fun one. So, you know, MRSA, MRSA, people have probably heard about this.

1:43:25It's methicillin resistant staphylococcus aureus. It's a killer infection, right? This has been typically in hospitals. It's now getting out into the community. So 2.8 million people have MRSA infection every year. kills 35 ,000 people in the US alone. The problem is all the first line antibiotics for MRSA have failed. Methicillin, penicillin, moxicillin, and now even vancomycin, which has been the antibiotic of last resort, is no longer working. So this particular drug, Candesartan, is now being used. It's a FDA approved BP medication for blood pressure and it works to basically stop and inhibit a MRSA infection.

1:44:14And so this is an example of taking the existing drug and it's now fully usable by the scientific and medical community because it's been approved. We know it's safety protocol. So I love this. Do you remember, Salim, on stage, we had at The Abundance, we had David Fagenbaum from - Yeah. Yeah, so this is a similar to his story. I've just tell a story and just congratulate him. A donor to his foundation. So here's the story here. So in 2010, he's a 25 year old medical student. He comes down with this rare disease, rare disease called Castleman's disease. And they throw everything they can at him.

1:44:58And he's literally read his last rites. He has four near death experiences. and then as a medical student, he starts experimenting on himself and he discovers that his disease is caused by a hyperactivation of the mTOR pathway and he says, well, if it's the mTOR pathway, I can probably downregulate it using rapamycin and he does that and he finds out that it works. So he's been remission-free for 12 years and he comes up with the idea, are there other diseases out there for which an existing approved drug can be used to cure the disease. And here are the numbers. There are 18 ,000 recognized diseases out there, but only 4 ,000 FDA approved drugs.

1:45:41And so he's now using AI to match the existing drugs and repurposing them against new diseases. And it's working. I think that's such a great example of citizen science also, right? Take a personal problem and then just start hacking the way through it. I think we're going to see hundreds of thousands of this example. And this is where people should pick and understand why are we so excited about technologies? Because this is now possible. And this was not possible 10 years ago, five years ago even. And now it's just going to become more rampant. And any problem can now be solved by kind of just focusing on it, attacking it with AI and going after it.

1:46:18It was incredible. Solve everything, right?

1:46:22Peter Diamandis:Solve everything. And also, I would say, historically, like before this era, off-target indications were dirty word or dirty drugs that have lots of off-target side effects, highly undesirable. But now, if we have amazing AI models of individual cells and the body, suddenly off-target side effects, they become a secret weapon. And we can repurpose drugs. We can combine repurposed drugs. I'm very bullish on this space. I advise I have a portfolio company, Sengem Therapeutics, that is focused on increasingly on AI for repurposing medications for anti-inflammatories for other purposes. I think this space has enormous potential thanks to AI.

1:47:07Yeah, amazing. For folks who are interested, you go to everycure.org. You can see what David's doing. It's a nonprofit and support his work. He's brilliant. All right. Let's get into some fun conversations here. The robots are indeed coming. A few stories to report here today. The first is the ping pong champion of the world is now an AI-driven robot. Let's take a look at this little bit of a match here and we can discuss it.

1:48:01The background music is killing me. Sorry about that. Anyway, so the robot's using nine cameras and three vision systems. It won three out of five games. Let me pause this here. It won three out of five games. I'm surprised it didn't win all five games. And of course it will.

1:48:22Dave Blundin:It doesn't have a lot of topspin, actually. It's just very nimble. Note that this is the worst it's ever going to be. That's kind of incredible. The speed of response is amazing. Yeah. This robot's called Ace. And it's, you know, I'm not sure if I would see this in the same lineage as Deep Blue or AlphaGo, but it's the beginning.

1:48:42Peter Diamandis:It's totally not. This is a much lower dimensional game than any of those board games. For sure. It frankly is astounding to me that it took this long to reach human performance in table tennis because it's such a simple game. You only have a handful of degrees of freedom in the ball. You have the position. You have its linear momentum. You have its angular momentum. And I think that's about it. The rest is just modeling the trajectory and maybe doing a little bit of Monte Carlo tree search for tactics that your opponent might take. This should have been solved years ago. I don't know why this took so long.

1:49:15Dave Blundin:Well, let's answer that question, actually, because that's really well said. And this is very similar to many, many robotic operations in your home, in a factory, you know, and whatever the barrier was, I think it's probably related to the vision system. You know, it's not a high margin problem, right? You know, it's really like investing a billion dollars to solve it. But now, because the vision systems and the feedback systems are dirt cheap and easy, I bet it was solved by one or two people in like a few weeks. And that means all these other home robots can now be built by one or two people in a few weeks.

1:49:52Similarly, there's a tennis playing robot also, which I'm excited to play with, which would be really cool. But it's all the same vein. It's all the same category.

1:50:03Dave Blundin:Salim, total no-brainer. The, you know, if you ever use a ball machine, then you go pick up all the balls for like 20 minutes with a robot that does that is literally MIT class 270 could have done it. What's the barrier? And I'm sure the barrier is related just to the feedback control and the vision, which you can now just use with a transformer. Well, also people that are in robot labs don't play tennis, so they don't have an incentive to go do that good work and other things. They don't have socializing. Not to generalize. Actually, I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole, but there's a massive correlation between successful founding entrepreneurs and the MIT tennis team.

1:50:40Dave Blundin:It's basically 100%. It's crazy, including Warren. All right. Here's our next story. The Tesla CyberCab is now in production. Take a quick look at this video here. So, Dave, you and I saw this, and we saw the production line. We were in Austin in December and December here. Of course, no controls, no steering wheel, no pedals, an operating cost of 20 cents per mile. And Elon's announced he's going to sell it for$30 ,000. I think an incredible investment, if you can afford it, is you buy 10 of these and you put them out in your community and it earns money for you while you sleep. When is this expected?

1:51:27Dave Blundin:If you're just listening to this podcast and you're not watching the video, go find this video clip. Yeah. You know, in the podcast, you got to see the interior of this to believe it. It's like you're walking into a car, but it's just a love seat. It's only a two seater. Yeah. Which is, you know, which is the average load for an Uber is like 1.2 people per Uber. Right. So two seats makes total sense. It does. Well, look, if you have four people, just push the button twice and two of them come. Yeah. When is this expected, by the way? I need this to get my kid to school, so I don't have to do that.

1:52:01Dave Blundin:So, I mean, production officially started this past week, April 24th. And, you know, the challenge is can they really build at the rate that they want? They want two million of these per year as their goal. Yeah. Are there regulatory hurdles or that's been passed now with Waymo? No, it's there. It's the same as Waymo. Okay. Yeah, it's town by town. It's state by state, town by town. But if you're covered, yeah, you just get in and go. The difference is a Waymo, because of the LiDAR and all the camera systems and just the base, I think the vehicle probably, you know, it tops out over$100 ,000, probably$150 ,000.

1:52:39I'm not sure if they get into higher production if it's going to be coming down. But at 30K, this is insane.

1:52:47Dave Blundin:Yeah, no, there's so many parts. If you look at the parts just laid out, you know, because there was that great exploded car in the showroom. For ice versus electric. Compare it to a consumer gas-powered car and just in raw part count. And it's got to be 80%, 90 % reduction in components versus a gas consumer vehicle. I'll give you the statistic I always have in my head. The number of parts in the drivetrain of a combustion engine car, about 2 ,000. A Tesla has 17 moving parts in the drivetrain. It's just the future of transportation is so good. It's just better technology. Yeah, and it doesn't need a huge battery range either.

1:53:27Dave Blundin:It can just go and hang out and recharge itself whenever it wants. Another one will come. And guess what? On the transportation technology line, here's the next story. Here, Joby Aviation. This is Joe Ben who started Velocity 11 with Rob Nail, if you remember Rob. Sure. Celine. So Joby just did its first air taxi flight from New York to JFK. let's take a listen to this news report out of New York and hello I live in New York hello I know well this is going to help you out buddy check this out getting to New York airports is a nightmare electric air taxi demonstration took off from Kennedy airport and made the short trip to the west 30th street heliport at 11 a.m this morning if you were to drive that 16 miles it would take more than an hour in this cutting edge plane roughly seven minutes Joby Aviation's goal is to make this type of travel the gold standard, pointing out several pluses, including zero emissions, and how quiet it is, 100 times quieter than a traditional helicopter.

1:54:32This so-called air taxi would shuttle people from JFK to the West 30th Street heliport, as well as the one at West 34th Street and the downtown Skyport. The aircraft seats up to four passengers. There's one pilot, room for luggage, and it will fly between 1 and 3 ,000 feet. Right now, Joby does have the green light from the FAA for this phase. And if things pan out, the company hopes to have its fleet up in the air and running within the next year. But for now, for the next week, you will see this aircraft that kind of looks like a large drone buzzing over our area. It's a time machine, gentlemen.

1:55:10Can you imagine that? I'll be standing at the heliport with my bags ready. I love it. I can't believe they got the noise down. That's so cool. EVTOLs is a lousy name, though. I just call these things flying cars, for lack of a better term. We need a better term than flying cars, a better term than EVTOLs.

1:55:28Peter Diamandis:It took too long. We were supposed to have these by 2015 in Back to the Future Part 2. Here we are in 2026. Why did it take so long? We need Mr. Fusion. You think Mr. Fusion is the reason we didn't get our flying cars on time? I think so, absolutely. That's what the movie said. Oh, man.

1:55:42Dave Blundin:Well, in our robotic segments here, we had two back-to-back Alex, why did this take so long questions. So let's begin on that.

1:55:49Peter Diamandis:Yeah, I'm very much in it. Why did everything take so long? I guess. Hello, regulatory. You think it's regulatory, Salim? You think regulations are why we didn't get it? The technology's been there for quite a while. This is a long, it takes a long time to do permanent. Ask Peter how long it took him for the zero G. 11 years to get approval to do something that NASA had been doing for 20 years. Anyway, yes, the FAA is not happy till you're not happy. That's the rule.

1:56:17Dave Blundin:Well, I think we've got to answer that question because a lot of the AMA questions are around what are the jobs of the future going to be if white collar gets obliterated? But I think a lot of the answer lies in these last couple of segments. Robotic stuff is going to be abundant imminently, but it doesn't just naturally happen. And so if we can answer Alex's two questions on what are the bottlenecks, those are jobs. Whatever those bottlenecks are, those are your jobs. Those are AI models. If there's a bottleneck there, the AI will solve it. This episode is brought to you by Blitzy, autonomous software development with infinite code context.

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1:57:39Ready to 5x your engineering velocity? Visit Blitzy.com to schedule a demo and start building with Blitzy today. All right, let's jump into AMA with the mates. So guys, thank you again for all the comments that you give us on YouTube. We read them all. I have Skippy read them all as well and summarize. We pick out eight questions that we can answer every week, so please keep them coming. And let's go to those questions. All right, so gentlemen, pick your favorite question off list number one. Saleem, do you want to go first? I'll go with number four, as I know that world a little bit, which is what's the future of large consulting firms like Accenture or Capgemini?

1:58:24This is from at Steve Bottle 1501. It goes full on into the transformational effort that's going into enterprises here. Traditional consulting is in very big trouble if it remains a pyramid of junior labor producing analysis and decks. AI totally destroys that model. But consulting firms, you know, in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. In a volatile world, your clients are slower than you are and they need help. The model will have to change. The future of consulting won't be like a people pyramid. It's an intelligence platform plus domain expertise plus change management. And we've been holding the change management side for a while.

1:59:07The winners are going to be bringing agentic workflows and benchmarks and governance and implementation capacity to their clients. The losers are just going to keep selling headcount. From an EXO perspective, consulting is from experts to rent to a transformation operating system. And the companies that help their clients do that will win. Yeah. You know, we've talked about this before, that in the old scarcity model, you put a wall around all of your experts inside and you meter them out by the hour, right? And that is going to get collapsed. Alex, why don't you go next?

1:59:45Peter Diamandis:I'll take question number two, which asks, everyone can be an entrepreneur with AI as a tool. However, what action do you take when you genuinely don't have a creative idea for a direction? For most, the answer is none. And this is from three billionth random user. I don't agree with the premise. I think, and one of the reasons why one of my funds, O2 1T Capital, backed a firm started by friend of the pod, Alex Finn, called Henry Intelligent Machines, or him. is to solve the problem of creative ideation for starting new ventures. I think just as AI can take over as an operator of a business or a fleet of businesses, AI can also automate the process of creative ideation for those businesses.

2:00:31Peter Diamandis:And I think in that world, in the HIM world, if you will, the role of the human, sort of a one-person owner or magnate overseeing a conglomerate of maybe hundreds or thousands of AI-run micro-businesses, the role of that human entrepreneur then becomes one of a tastemaker. You have opinions. Everyone has opinions as a consumer of goods and services. But those opinions can shape the taste over fleets of AIs that are providing the creative ideation for businesses that they bring to you. They say, hey, I want to start this micro-business for you. You like it? Yes, no. And then the human can have an opinion.

2:01:14Peter Diamandis:The AI is performing the ideation. The human and the generation part, the human provides sort of the discipline and the taste and the discrimination for which ideas pass the filter, which ones don't. And that's the solution. That's how we square this circle of humans, not actually in extremis needing to generate all the creative ideas themselves. Yeah, agreed. You know, idea generation has never been the limiting factor. You just have to get around different people or just notice the problems around you. It's historically been execution that's been the issue. You know, go check out Pulsia. I think it's pulsia.ai, which is AI slot backwards.

2:01:56If you sign up for that, it will scan all of your background and it will generate ideas for you. And in fact, it will generate a website of a business based upon what your passions and interests are. Anyway, fascinating stuff.

2:02:09Peter Diamandis:And I'll say it may be instead of Pulsia, I'll talk my book here since I have a financial interest in this one. Check out meethenry.ai. Okay, fantastic. Dave, number one or three?

2:02:22Dave Blundin:I'll take three and leave you with a hard one. Thanks. Have it out. If you eliminate entry lever jobs but keep experienced jobs, what happens when the experienced people retire? isn't that like eliminating babies from humanity, says Todd Marshall 416. I don't think it's quite that dire, Todd. Eliminating babies from humanity is about the worst thing could possibly happen. If you eliminate entry-level jobs, well, look, this was going to happen anyway. If you think about, you know, actually, we have a weekend place up in Vermont, and the Simon Pierce glassblowing factory is up there. And if you want to blow glass, you have to apprentice with a senior dude for like a year, like a decade, and then they let you make glass.

2:03:09Dave Blundin:It's like a page out of 200-year-old history. That mode of operation is going to go away in all forms of white-collar work, no matter what. So, the rate of change of the world and the singularity is so fast that the entry-level career path was kind of a dead end anyway. So, now Meta announced a 10 % layoff, which is really going to be more like 30 % according to the insiders I know. And they're definitely not hiring new entry-level people in the middle of doing the layoff because AI can do all the coding. That was not the career path you wanted in the first place. So we're going to have to find a new way forward.

2:03:47Dave Blundin:But I think AI is going to be the ultimate teacher. We're going to save a ton of time on, like Peter was saying earlier in the podcast, the four years of medical school followed by four years of fellowship and internship, eight years of your life after you're already done with undergrad. It's just way too much time. So it's all going to move to AI-based nimble training. And then, you know, this massively expanding economy creates huge amounts of new opportunity every day, but it's opportunity that didn't exist the prior day. So the entry-level job wasn't really likely to lead you on that path anyway.

2:04:20Dave Blundin:So it's all got to get refactored. It's nothing like people stopping having babies. I think it's so well put, Dave. Really well put. All right. Question number one I'm left with is from Gianluca Paciani, Paciani808, who asks, you guys say AI will create jobs, but for whom? It looks like AI is creating jobs for AI, not for people. So Gianluca, the fact of the matter is in the long run, yes, AI will be able to do any job. I think that is the case. But people still like working with people. People still like hanging out with people. And I think it's ultimately going to be the fact that two things are occurring.

2:05:06Number one, as every technology destroys a layer of jobs, right, new jobs are created on top of that. You know, internet killed travel agents, but it spawned millions of social media managers, app developers, YouTubers, and everything else. So there are going to be new layers of jobs coming out. And yes, those may well be displaced by AI again. At the end of the day, the question is, what are you passionate about and how do you use AI to help deliver that? There's going to be a human interface layer for a lot of things because people like hanging out and interfacing with people, you know, us meat puppets.

2:05:43So it's going to be navigated. It's going to be important. And I'll just remind you one other thing. The idea of a job is a recent creation. And most people don't love the jobs that they have. They have the jobs they have right now because they, frankly, you know, need to put food on the table and get insurance for their families. So if you could do anything, what would it be? Would it be to work? I mean, in a future of universal high income, you know, where everything is demonetized to such a point where you don't have to work, then you start doing the things that you love. So that's my take on it.

2:06:19All right. Let's move on to our second set of questions. Alex, why don't you go first?

2:06:28Peter Diamandis:Well, let's go with question number five. Wasn't all of this originally predicted by Ray Kurzweil to be happening sometime around 2040? Are we genuinely that far ahead of schedule? And this is from Brett Avalon. I'm not sure, Brett, what all of this you're referring to may mean. But I do think broadly we're well ahead of where friend of the pod Ray thought we'd be. I think we achieved, as I've mentioned on numerous occasions, I think we achieved AGI, which isn't Ray's concept, but was popularized by Nick Bostrom and co-conceived by Ben Gertzel and some others. I think we achieved that by no later than summer of 2020.

2:07:12Peter Diamandis:And Ray's proximate, you know, Ray may say I'm misconstruing his timelines, was predicting his version of AGI by 2029. So call that a nine-year gap. Ray, and I've discussed this with him on the pod, is predicting the singularity, his version of the singularity, by 2045. My version of the singularity isn't a point in time. It's now. And certainly not in 2045. It's now, and it's an interval, and we're right in the middle of it. So are we genuinely far ahead of Ray's schedule? I think I think we are. I think Ray would probably at this point and has arguably said that we are in some ways ahead of his schedule.

2:07:56Peter Diamandis:And I think the benchmarks reflect that. And I think the 2045 timeline that he provided where the super intelligence would be collectively smarter than all of humanity, I think we're going to hit that so far ahead of 2045. We'll ask him next week. We'll be with him in six days. From the horse's mouth. Yes. All right. Dave, why don't you go next?

2:08:21Dave Blundin:I'll take the hardest one on this one. Number eight, P. Doom, probability of universal destruction of all humanity estimates. Musk and Hinton say 10 to 20 percent. Emma Day says 25 percent. Altman says non-zero. He actually said more like 10 percent when I interviewed him. How can any of these CEOs think it's acceptable to have a one-fifth chance of human extinction? they all agree with you that it's completely unacceptable and they all say stopping research and letting China run forward isn't going to solve the problem and so they trust them they each individually trust themselves you can debate whether that's good or bad but they they do and that's why they want to not lose the race individually and that's why they're pushing forward at full speed.

2:09:10Dave Blundin:I think, you know, Musk and I think along the way, Amadei have both suggested a six month pause, but it wouldn't work. At the same time, they say it, they say it'll never work. It won't happen in the real world. So I'm just going to keep moving as fast as I can. But they 100 % agree with you. This is completely unacceptable, ridiculous. And the lack of government involvement across the world is utterly insane. So that doesn't solve it in any way. It's Just that is what's actually happening and that's what's going to continue to happen. And I'm continually shocked, as is Alex, I know, with our inability to get any kind of government reaction to what's now the obvious.

2:09:52Dave Blundin:We were telling him a year ago when maybe it wasn't 100 percent obvious, but now it's 100 percent obvious, yet still so slow. So anyway, there's your answer. Sorry, it's not a better answer.

2:10:03Peter Diamandis:I'd be curious, Dave. Do you think that they believe their own estimates here or is this a case of revealed preference where they think maybe it's more socially acceptable to estimate a higher number, but actually through their actions they're revealing a preference that suggests their internal estimate is much lower?

2:10:22Dave Blundin:I think it's lower. I don't know if much lower. I think they all have the same, you know, chemical, biological, radiological terrorism is the number one risk. And so I think it's probably lower, but I don't think it's like 0.001 % low. Interesting. Salim, you have two to choose from. I will take number seven, which is when white-collar jobs are erased, where does the consumer demand come from to buy from all these new entrepreneurial ventures? This is from Atki Tilligman. You know, this is a tough one, right? This is the central political economy question of AI. If productivity explodes, but income does not flow to the people, demand collapses and the system becomes unstable.

2:11:17Capitalism needs customers, right? So we need new distribution mechanisms. We need lower costs. We need new ownership models. We need AI dividends. You need equity participation. You need sovereign funds. all of this points, and this is similar to the previous question, where, you know, on an optimistic side, AI makes goods and services cheap while giving individuals more well-leverage to create income. That's the good side. The pessimism side is that you have extreme concentration, and then you have massive collapse of the economy. The path we take is a governance and an institutional design choice, not a law of nature.

2:11:54So governance and our institutions need to for being wiped up and smell the roses here. We have to rethink this whole thing, the social contract, which is what we're basically talking about, was essentially being wiped out. And we can be optimistic about it, but the pessimistic case has a very big downside here. All right, the final question in our AMA today comes from at James Williams, CU2QQ. How can a new CS engineer get experience to become a lead AI engineer if you can't get a job in the first place? James, first of all, you know, as we've said many times, getting a job is the old model. You know, the old model of do well in high school, get to college, get a diploma, get hired as a junior person and work your way up the chain.

2:12:41That is vaporized or at least being fully vaporized right now. The option right now is build yourself outside the job. Build in public, right? Basically, go and find something that you're passionate about. It's based on your massive transformative purpose, something you care about. We're going to be launching an XPRIZE in this area very shortly. And use the tools available today to build and ship. And your GitHub is now your resume. Companies are increasingly hiring if you want to get a job versus start a company yourself. They're increasingly hiring based upon what you've done. I remember Elon said, I don't care if you have a college degree.

2:13:23You know, I care about what you've done. You know, that is your degree now. That is your resume. Show me that you're brilliant at what you build, not what you happen to learn in some college or graduate degree or entry-level job. So build in public, the barrier to entry has never been lower for you to build something extraordinary that shows your capabilities. And once you do that, you're probably unlikely to be going after a job. you're probably going to want to partner with a couple of friends and build a product, a company, a service yourself. So that's my answer. I'm sticking to it. Just we're advising a couple of universities around this, Peter, and one of them is an engineering university.

2:14:06And we're like, well, what is an engineering degree? And it's pretty clear that the engineering degree of the future will be go build some stuff. And at the end, what did you build? And you get a degree granted on not what you learned, but what did you build. Yeah, I love that.

2:14:20Dave Blundin:And if you haven't done anything to start yet other than listening to the podcast, add Alex's innermost loop to your daily regimen first thing in the morning. And that alone will inspire you to shift gears and get into this.

2:14:33Peter Diamandis:Oh, thank you, Dave. That's very sweet. For those who want to read the innermost loop, just go to alexwg.org and I provide links to Substack and X and Spotify, et cetera. But I appreciate the promo, Dave. It's very kind. All right. Our outro music today, which is beautiful, is from Hitham Said. It's A.I. Topia. All right, gentlemen, get ready for some beautiful video and audio.

2:15:06Dave Blundin:Everyone living with no needs in sight A home made to order with fancy little lights No need to worry, it's paid for, don't scare The mortgage is dead, no debt will you bear

2:15:28Dave Blundin:Energy is endless, we harness the sun Combine with safe atoms forever in fun Needs to make widgets, our farming is done No punching a clock, it's all just begun The bots and models will take on the pain For us to live heavily on Earth once again Passing the time and thoughts and desires Enjoying the peace, no chaotic fire All right, thank you to my brilliant Moonshot mates AWG, I wish you a beautiful week Dave and Salim I can't wait to see you guys next Monday We're all together again We're going to be physically at MIT At the book launch of We Are His Gods We're going to be recording a podcast episode there Can't wait to do it face-to-face

2:16:30and check out what's right above me is a world vision camera or uh identity camera right literally right over my head no it's just uh it's just an omni cam it's just a surveillance camera but I couldn't resist. And by the way, it's not easy standing in Guadalajara or holding a laptop at eye level because there's nowhere to put it down. You did pretty damn well as a mobile. I've got my exercises for the day. A mobile mate. I saw you moving around. Were you trying to avoid like policemen or something or what? No, I just have to shift positions down there and shift hands and once in a while lean on something.

2:17:05There's nowhere to sit here that's easy and I don't want to risk losing connection that I fought so hard to get. Oh my God. Okay, if you've got an outro song or an intro song, please send it to us, media at diamandis.com. We'd love to hear it, see it, and potentially play it. And thank you for subscribing to this. And thank you to all of the fans out there. I know all four of us run into you on the street, at the airports, at events. Amazing. It's really great. If you see us, do come up and say hi. Yeah, for sure. Although not too many. All right, take care, folks. Bye, all. If you made it to the end of this episode, which you obviously did, I consider you a moonshot mate.

2:17:46Every week, my moonshot mates and I spend a lot of energy and time to really deliver you the news that matters. If you're a subscriber, thank you. If you're not a subscriber yet, please consider subscribing so you get the news as it comes out. I also want to invite you to join me on my weekly newsletter called MetaTrends. I have a research team. You may not know this, but we spend the entire week looking at the meta trends that are impacting your family, your company, your industry, your nation. And I put this into a two minute read every week. If you'd like to get access to the Meta Trends newsletter every week, go to diamandis.com slash meta trends.

2:18:21That's diamandis.com slash meta trends. Thank you again for joining us today. It's a blast for us to put this together every week.

2:19:04Dave Blundin:We'll be right back. wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms slash college pc.