How to Eat to Live Longer in 2024 w/ Dr. Helen Messier | EP #76

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28:08It really is something that is, for me, one of the most important things I offer my entire family, the CEOs of my companies, my friends. It's a chance to really add decades onto our healthy life spans. Go to FountainLife .com, Backslash Peter. It's one of the most important things I can offer to you is one of my listeners. All right, let's go back to our episode. Let's jump in, so I was saying what are the absolutes? So the absolutes are, listen, sugar's a poison, minimize your sugar, measure what's going on, try yourself going through a 22 day sugar fast, do it with a group of people. That's one piece of advice.

28:46The other sort of, I think, absolute piece of advice is the idea of a whole plant diet that I think everybody can benefit from a whole plant diet. So what is a whole plant diet? Yeah, I mean a whole plant diet is really just what it says is is eat plants You know they eat everything and it's close to its natural state as possible, right for the You want to not too much and again mostly plants is really the they have you want to think about diet but Whole plant food diet is plant forward doesn't mean that you have to be vegan doesn't mean you have to be vegetarian It just means that you should eat really focus on getting plants first and making sure that you Get all of the phytonutrients all of the so why why plants Helen you know I Been a vegan I've I've gone a whole keto diet I've done everything I'm back to sort of Mediterranean diet But when I see literally I see plants on my plate I attack them I'm like, okay, the Brussels sprouts, the asparagus, the spinach.

29:59It's like, I've learned to love my plants, but why is that important? Why is that important? So plants have so many important things. So one of the things that plants have in the only place we can get it is fiber. Now fiber is not only does it fill you up, not only does it control how fast sugar is absorbed into your bloodstream, so it controls your blood sugar, but fiber feeds are microbiome. And our microbiome is, you know, there's all of the trillions of microorganisms that live, it lives everywhere in our body and our skin and our, you know, everywhere. But the vast majority of them live in our GI tract or in our gut.

30:40And those microbes turns out to do so many important things for us. You know, the list could go on. I think every day there's hundreds of papers published on how important the microbiome is for our overall health. And what plants do is that fiber feeds the beneficial microbes. That's absolutely critical. We do not get nearly enough fiber in our diet. You know, if we look at a lot of times, this is only my own kind of hypothesis, but I think we talk a lot about the paleo diet being all meat and the animal that our caveman ancestors would kill. But if you think if you look at what our ancestors ate in terms of fiber, it would be in the hundred gram per day range You know even if you look at traditional populations now.

31:28It's around that Typically the USDA recommends 35 grams a day for people most of us get around five or ten wow We don't get nearly enough Well, you know by the way one thing that we said about microbiome, we'll talk about that more. I mean, every day the research is showing how it's connected to every aspect of your health, your Alzheimer's, brain clarity, cancers and so forth. And then one of the things, I just, you know, you and I talked about this for me a little a little bit ago, a few months ago, which was I had to take some antibiotics for some after my some dental work and I tried to avoid it but I took it in the final result because of a sinus infection but oh my god I hate antibiotics.

32:21It's like they've saved our lives, they've added decades on to your year but keeping your microbiome in good state of health is so important. We'll get to that. I just want to put that note in for folks to think about do not take antibiotics if you have a viral infection, there's so many reasons not to do it. So please, please, please, think about antibiotics. Not only do the antibiotics, and yeah, with the caveat, if you need them, definitely take them. But if there's any doubt, you know, like you said, a viral infection is antibiotics don't kill viruses. They kill bacteria, not only do they kill the bad bacteria, they also kill all of the good bacteria and you're got that way, those beneficial microbes we talked about.

33:01And I will talk later about your mitochondria are in fact bacteria that were incorporated into cells and antibiotics can actually damage your mitochondria. I don't want to dive into the rabbit hole right now. I want to get back to food. So whole plant diets. So one of the things that I recently learned and I found it really an important tidbit, which is the order in which you eat your food can have a massive benefit. So let me lay it out. When you're looking at your plate, eat your veggies first, eat that fiber first, then eat your protein. And then if you still have hunger, you can eat your rice or your bread or your carbs.

33:47So why is that? Yeah, absolutely. So the order that you eat, it will fill your stomach up, and it will slow the absorption of the sugar from those rice and carbs. if you have the fiber in the protein in your digestive system first, you have much lower glycemic response to those foods. So that's a big reason. Another reason is you get filled up with the good stuff, and then less room for you to eat the stuff that's not so good, sort of that, you know, the nutrient poor food. You want to eat the nutrient dense food first. And, you know, the other thing that's in the plants, we talked about fiber, but all of the phyto nutrients.

34:25So phyto just means from plants and nutrients being, you know, all of the such important components that why do we eat? We eat to get building blocks for our body, the protein, and to get energy, and also to give cofactors for all of the biochemical reactions that we need to stay alive. All of those enzymes that carry out those biochemical reactions, those are required cofactors. And that's what vitamins and minerals are. They're cofactors for these enzymes. We can't carry out any of these reactions without those. So that's really important as well, that, and that comes from the plants. It's, I think that's really critical.

35:09And the other thing plants give us is antioxidants. We will get into the whole oxidative stress and free radicals. We can go down that rabbit hole if you like, but free radicals damage in the process of making energy, you know, taking an oxygen in the food we eat, those mitochondria, which you're going to hear over and over again because we're talking about longevity. So they're so important. They have, they have smoke essentially. Think of them as a power plant that produces a bite. They're burning something. They're burning something. And that smoke is reactive oxygen species or what we call free radicals.

35:47And those free radicals cause oxidative damage. So, you know, think of when a metal piece of metal rusts, that's free radical damage or oxidative damage of the metal rusting. So think of that rusting inside our body. It will damage a lot of our proteins and cell, or cell membranes get damaged quite significantly with those free radicals. So in order to deal with that, if we didn't have antioxidants, again, we would all die. We make antioxidants, but we also need to get them from our diet. A couple of key points here as takeaways. Again, please think about this tonight when you're eating dinner or lunch.

36:26Attack your veggies first. Get that fiber in, you know, I like to pour extra virgin olive oil on all my veggies and really consume olive oil in that capacity. So that's the first thing. And then your protein, we can talk about protein from legumes, protein from beans, protein, from fish, chicken. I don't take and read meat. but then the final thing, and I typically skip it because I feel myself on the veggies and the protein can be your carbohydrates. One of the challenges is you go to a beautiful French or Italian restaurant and what's the very first thing they do, they feed you a giant bowl of bread and a glass of wine.

37:04And it's like, so pro tip here, when they bring it to the table, say can you please bring this back with the main course? Because if it's sitting in front of you, you're going to eat it. Or if you need to, make sure that you soak your bread in the extra virgin olive oil to blunt the glycemic response of the bread, but better yet to eat it on the back end of your meal. Exactly. There's another thing you taught me, which is eat the rainbow, and that doesn't mean fruit loops or skittles. So what does eat the rainbow mean? People would try to make it be fruit loops and skittles. But yeah, eating the rainbow just means eating all of the colors of the rainbow.

37:47Because the phytonutrients, the densest nutrition in these plants, are come from the colors. So think of the green and kale and beans and peas, think of the red and tomatoes and strawberries, think of the oranges and carrots and the blue and blueberries and blackberries. That's like, so you want to get what I tell people is try to get one, at least one food of every color every day. That's going to give it because the key, one of the keys of diet is variety. You know, it's great to, and you know how much I love broccoli, Peter. I love broccoli too. But the key is you can eat a big, laid -of broccoli, which is great, but you want to get variety, want to get lots of different types.

38:33So really go for those colors. And when my kids were little, I used to have them check off the colors of the rainbow, make sure they got one of So that's another thing that I attack for Ociously. It's like, you know, we were at our longevity platinum dinner and my team's amazing. They feed us great longevity diets. And I remember in front of the group was these plates of like, you know, every color out there. And I was like, I was just grabbing, grabbing at them. And so, you know, the order which you eat your food, the color of the food, putting off the high glycemic index. Let's talk about one second, nuts, beans, legumes, and then how many calories to consume per day?

39:14Because that is all over the place. So how much protein do you consume? Where do you get your protein from and how many calories? That's an important part of our diet conversation. Yeah, yeah. I think, honestly, calories, I think it is important you don't want to over -consume calories. But to your point, if you eat the right foods first, I think that's a good thing. I think it's really hard to get too many calories when you eat plants. That becomes very difficult. You'll be full before you can have too many calories. Right? And so really go with that first. And then the calories tend to really take care of themselves if you do that.

39:54I used to calorie count. I used to, I don't think, I think, from an ease perspective, just focus on the good foods. And then don't stuff yourself. Stop when you're about 80 % full. Before you go for those seconds, you want to wait about 15 minutes. It takes about 15 minutes for the food to register from your stomach to your brain that you've had something to eat. I can... That's so important, right? You ever have that feeling like, oh my God, I ate too much. Like, it sneaks up on you because there is that delay. And... That's right. Chewing your food and waiting and having a conversation. and then there's vitamin O.

40:35Talk about vitamin O here. People are going to, hold it, what's a vitamin O? I don't remember that from medical school. Yeah, that's, I love it. The vitamin O and that came from Mark David who's just a fantastic, wrote the slow down diet. It's oxygen. Make sure you breathe. So how, and we talked about, you know, taking a deep breath right now. When you eat, but how you eat, right? So everyone, let's do this together. or take a deep breath. And then let it out, out breath longer than your in -breath. And suddenly, I think you can feel how your nervous system switches. It switches from that sympathetic nervous system, or the fight or flight nervous system.

41:17And it switches to your parasympathetic nervous system, which is your rest and digest nervous system. So all of our bodily functions, whether it's urinating or salivating, you know how you're stressed, your mouth dries up. You're clenching them. Yeah, all of those things happen only when we're in a parasympathetic state. And the key is that one or the other can be active at one time. They both cannot be active at the same time. So you're either sympathetic or you're parasympathetic. And so when you eat in that parasympathetic state, you actually make the best use of your food. you're going to digest your food, you're going to absorb the nutrients, you're going to utilize them properly.

42:00If you eat in a stressed state, you tend to just take it all and store it away as fat for a later date. You don't get it. I remember just like, you're food. Shouveling the food in my mouth just to get it done and then get back to my work. And the worst thing, and you said this the other day, and I grew with you, is sitting there watching Crisis News Network, watching CNN and having dinner as bombs are flying and people. It's like that's the worst state to have had, you know, to eat. Yeah. Over the years, I've experimented with many intermittent fasting programs. The truth is, I've given up on intermittent fasting as I've seen no real benefit when it comes to longevity.

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43:23Now back to the episode. It is. If you think about how we tend to eat in our society, right, in our culture, we eat when we're driving, right? We'll go through the drive -through and eat when we go through, and that's obviously stressful. We eat at our desk when we're trying to do work. We eat. We read. We can never think of how many times you actually sit and pay attention to your food and don't do anything else other than maybe good conversation with a friend. How many times in our week think about that that we actually pay attention, taste our food, chew our food, pay attention to it versus just kind of shoveling it in because you have to get some calories in.

44:03You know, my sister made a good point. This is part of from cultures around the world. This is why they say a prayer in the beginning or gratitude, grace, it's slowing you down and it's getting you into a conversation, it's preparing your body to absorb the food. So yeah, really, really important stuff. Protein. So, and intermittent fasting, a lot of conversations here, a lot of depth on diet. So, I'm focused this year on building muscle mass, which comes from lifting weights and creatine and other supplements we'll talk about that later, but it's also getting enough protein in my diet. But then you hear conversations around, no, too much protein is not good for longevity, so help me dissect the situation around protein.

44:56How much should we get? Yeah, and I think a lot of it does, we do need protein, number one. So let me say, we do. Proteen makes up the building blocks, our muscles in our body is really made up of protein. collagen and our skin, our bones. So protein is essential and we also know that our muscle mass is a key determiner of our longevity. So if we get weaker, one of the best predictors of mortality in longevity is just grip strength. So overall strength and muscle mass is very important for longevity. So that's really critical. If you think of the elderly frail people that not only do risk falling and all of those things but just And we'll get to this conversation in depth when we talk about exercise.

45:48Yeah, yeah, so, so how much protein should a person get? Yeah, so you need protein in order to build muscle mass and you know, and I think part of it depends on how active you are. You want to like with exercise, you definitely want to be able to lift weight or some kind of resistance training is really important to build and make use of that protein. You want to make sure you digest your protein appropriately because undigested protein can get down into the lower reaches of your colon and then your bacteria will start to ferment that. That becomes a problem because they produce a lot of harmful substances from that protein fermentation.

46:26So you definitely want the protein that you eat, you want to be able to digest and absorb it appropriately and you want to make use of it by exercising. Having said that, the estimates are somewhere around 0 .8 to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight every sort of daily. And so that kind of gives you a rough estimate. You know, people obviously with kidney disease and other things, they have to be a little bit more careful with the protein, but that's a general kind of. So I weigh roughly 150 pounds and I take in 150 grams a day. And one of the things that's interesting is you can't just take in 150 grams at a sitting.

47:10No, it's spacing it out through the day. That's exactly right. Yeah. And that stimulates muscle building is when you actually space it out during the day. So that's really important. And you don't want to just fast all day and then eat a 20 pound steak. You know, the idea is to definitely space it out to the day. And so you stimulate that muscle kind of building throughout the day. I think that's really important. And you know, we can get into the whole MTOR AMPK and fasting if we want to. Well, let's touch based on it a little bit because I used to focus on intermittent fasting. and I would typically dinner at six or six done by seven, and then I would fast until the next day at about noon, one o 'clock, have a lunch and dinner, skip breakfast.

48:00And I've changed that. And one of the reasons it looks like the data of intermittent fasting in terms of during the day doesn't impact all -cause mortality, but it does impact my ability to take in enough protein. So I said, I'm going to actually take in a protein shake. I use a kachava, which I enjoy as a plant -based protein shake. I do every morning. So what are your thoughts on intermittent fasting? Yeah. So, you know, there are some evidence out there for intermittent fasting being good for people with metabolic syndrome, you know, sort of that whole insulin resistance and that abdominal weight.

48:45So if you're really overweight or obese and you need to lose that weight, Intermittent fasting can be helpful. But if we pull back and we look at kind of what are you know what we did in terms of evolution, what our humans kind of did. Remember we talked about the feast in the famine, you know how you feast in the fall and famine through the winter. I think that there is a role for going for periods without eating. One of the challenges if you go for longer periods without eating is you do lose muscle mass. So when people lose weight, there is a portion of that weight that you definitely lose body fat, but you also lose muscle mass.

49:27So that's something you really have to be careful of. It's because you say one of the strategies for fasting, because you know, some people do a four or five day water fast where it's like just water and electrolytes and that's it. And that's really hard. There is a product that I love that I write about in longevity, which is the Prolon fasting mimicking diet, which is a little bit different. It's a five -day diet, but day one is like 1200 calories in day two through five is like 800 calories and it's nutritional. The studies that they've done, if I understand correctly, and you can amplify, is it's actually more beneficial for you than just a water diet?

50:12Yes, absolutely, absolutely. So the fasting mimicking diet, you get a little bit of food, so it's easier to do because you're not completely not eating. So you get some olives and other things. They also give you something to kind of feed your mitochondria energy without the sugar. And that can be helpful. And they've done some really good studies on it. You know that people lost body weight, right? they they lost that kind of fat mass their waist circumference their blood pressure went down their cholesterol markers improved So there are you know there's been some good studies around the fasting mimicking diet that have been very beneficial You know sometimes I I use it you know in patients as well Just to kind of kickstart them often people with autoimmune diseases and that kind of thing that kicks start using the fasting and the making diet is a really great way to kind of really get them started, especially around elimination diets we can get into that later.

51:15But so there is benefit. I think that you know some people there's still some you know not sort of misunderstanding maybe around fasting and women versus men who is it work better for, I think all of that is we're still trying to tease it out. But there's a role for going for periods without eating and a role for eating. And so doing that once in a while can make sense. Hey everyone, I want to take a quick break from this episode to tell you about a health product that I love and that I use every day. In fact, I use it twice a day. It seeds DSO1 Daily Sinbiotic. Hopefully, by now, you understand that your microbiome and your gut health are one of the most important modifiable parts of your health.

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53:31I've gotten rid of sodas. I don't want, first of all, sugary sodas. And then I don't want the plus fork acid that comes from that. What are your thoughts on sodas? I would say don't. Okay. I mean, fair enough. Yeah, I mean, I can't really think of anything good that comes from drinking or soda, whether you say artificial sweet. Coca -Cola is definitely not good for sports in this podcast.

53:58Okay, so soda's don't. Fruit juices. The same thing. Fruit juices are really all sugar. fruit is different because fruit comes with fiber, the other things that slow down the absorption of the sugar, but the fruit juices are pretty much all sugar. And if you wear that CGM and you monitor your blood sugar when you drink say orange juice, you'll probably notice it go really high. Yeah, spikes. All right, here's a controversial one. And too much fructose isn't too good either. All right, alcohol, vitamin ETOH. So let's talk about alcohol. Is it lemonade? Is it partial? You know, there's a lot of people who swear by it.

54:52I have personally basically gotten rid of alcohol, 99%. I will have a half a glass of red wine once every two or three weeks. I'll have a shot at Dequila on a special occasion. But otherwise, I minimize my call intake. How do you think about alcohol? Any benefits for you? Yeah, there is. A lot of people will say, yeah, there's studies show that there's a protection, a cardiovascular disease. If you have a glass of red wine a day and it's the resveratrol. But if you really look at the evidence and the scientific literature, there's really no benefit from alcohol. You know, as sad as that makes me to say, there's nothing really good that comes from alcohol.

55:40It doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it once in a while to your point, Peter. But be aware that alcohol is a poison. You know, it has a lot of damage. It kills our brain cells. It kills our gut cells and causes, you know, this increased leaky gut, so to speak. It takes a big tax on our liver to actually detoxify it. Even though it can make you sleepy, it doesn't actually improve your sleep. It can actually disrupts your deep sleep and your different phases of sleep. There's really nothing good that comes from alcohol other than maybe in a social situation where you can... a social lubricant, yeah.

56:24Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And unfortunately, I mean what I have noted is if you're trying to keep your glycemic index down tequila is probably the thing that spikes that your blood glucose the least. Yeah, sometimes you'll see that alcohol will if you're wearing a CGM, alcohol can drop your blood sugar. That's very common, but that doesn't mean that, you know, it's lowering, it's not a good way to drop it. All right, one last topic here is water intake, which most people I think don't sufficiently do. That's correct. We have to out water. Our body is made up of mostly water, and we need to drink that and replenish it.

57:12We lose water all the time just in evaporation and urination. It's really critical. I would say a vast majority of us are walking around dehydrated. You know so many times that we also confuse thirst with hunger and a lot of times when we're thirsty we're going to interpret that as hunger and we'll eat instead of drinking and so one of the things You should do is really anytime you feel hungry. Number one drink a glass of water do that first if you're still hungry then okay go ahead and have something to eat but absolutely drink the water first because a lot of times it's because you feel it because you're thirsty.

57:54Is there any downside to sparkling water to carbonated water? Yeah so you know I like it you know I've got my pellarino here. There's certain soda water for example is quite salty it will make you feel first year. But if you like the bubbles, there's not really a huge downside of. And alkaline water? Yeah, you know, there's a lot of conversation around that. A lot of controversy around that. I've yet to see some really good data around the alkaline water. body alkalinity fruits and vegetables are going to really help with that more than the water. If we think of our stomach, our stomach is very acidic.

58:47And so you want that hydrochloric acid, you want that acid in your stomach. And so I think the alkaline water is fine. I don't think there's harm. But I think it's more important just to drink water. good clean water, you know, water is filled with toxins, so make sure it's clean. A lot of the water bottles even, you know, getting the plastics is a challenge. It's a challenge getting good clean water. So I'll wrap up on a few of the products I use here. I use athletic greens as a, you know, if I'm drinking water out of a, you know, a couple liter bottle, just to flavor it and to get a little bit of additional nutrients.

59:26I'll use athletic greens. One of my favorite products that introduced this year is Nutra 11, which is a hot protein drink in the morning. I'm addicted to it bluntly, and I get 20, I replaced coffee with it, which I talk about coffee. You know, I get some 20 grams of protein, and it's flavor with monk fruit as zero sugar, zero carbs, and again, I'm addicted to it. Caffeine, I used to, you know, when I was in medical school, you know, I would five, six, seven, eight cups, you know, keep me going. It was like I pride myself on being able to down down a few cups and go straight to sleep. But now I'm like, holy cow, I can't do that to myself.

1:00:13How do you think about coffee? Yeah. Now coffee in and of itself is filled with antioxidants and a lot of really beneficial a nutrient sin coffee. So coffee is a good thing. Now some people are more sensitive to caffeine than others. Caffeine can increase your heart rate, it can cause adrenaline, cortisol to be released, and some people can handle a lot more than others. Now genetically we can metabolize coffee. It's the SIP -1A2 gene. If you guys are interested, if you're the C in the SIP -1A2, the year you will be a slow metabolizer. I'm a slow metabolizer. I love my caffeine, my coffee. I used to think I was a fast metabolizer, but my genetics came back.

1:01:00I'm a slow metabolizer and you enjoyed, you know, one cup a day, Peter, that's it. And I tried to go to like one or zero a day. Yeah. So the idea is to, you know, limit it if you're a slow metabolizer. or just limit, kind of maybe stop drinking it by noon so that if you do, otherwise you'll have a lot of difficulty falling asleep. All right, so I think we gave diet a pretty good run for its money and hopefully people have taken away some concrete things that can do immediately and it's not expensive to be clear. These are things that you can do immediately that are available to everybody and a lot of it is the way you change what you eat, when you eat, the order you eat it in.

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