How to Reprogram Your Mind To Become Successful w/ Roger Hamilton | EP #67

24:43Typically, it's amazing. It's not about a business deal. It's typically about my kids. It's about the basics of life. I mean, good health, my children, which went to the doctor game last night, loved that. The other thing is in the morning when I meditate, I have played a game where I said, can I be 20 or 30 % more grateful and happy today? Just and like, and so when I'm encountering people, it's like just just being that much more grateful and happy and the two go together. What about you, what do you play with as gratitude practices? What one thing I started in my 20s and I still do today is practice of eight questions, which I ask myself in the morning and I might be on a run, I might be basically in meditation, I might be having my breakfast, but I'll always take the time to do them and I use questions rather than any kind of mantra because I never know what the unconscious is going to serve up.

25:39But the questions help me direct myself into different areas where gratitude can show up. So the first question that I ask myself is, what am I grateful for, which is an obvious one, right? So there's always going to be something that shows up. If things are tough, like, oh, everything's very wrong, sometimes I'm grateful for the learning that's coming out of that, right? But there's always going to be something to be grateful for. The second thing that I ask is, who do I love? And I find that's a super interesting one, because it's another formal gratitude, right? But it's a stronger form. And what's super interesting about that is, I have a rule.

26:11I think most of us do if you've got some crazy or mad email that comes through as like you want to just like answer back at this Person who is creating an issue and then you realize wait no I'm gonna sleep on it, right? And the next morning by the way that's always the right answer Always the right answer exactly always and then when the next morning is like you do I love sometimes the other ones that show up It's like oh, okay, and then you realize there's a whole different way to deal with it right? Yeah, and there's third one which is probably that when I find most valuable at war three of these is why am I so happy?

26:40And that one has been super powerful for me because we've all gone through tough times of light. In fact, I don't see success as something which means you go higher. I see it means something you go further out to see where the waves get bigger, right? Which higher highs low, low is both ways. But if you are able to be navigating in such a way that you've got the horizon, you've got the balance, you're going to be fine. And why am I so happy? There's always something to be happy about, even if you don't feel happy. And that's a fascinating question to ask, right? It's because it forces your brain to say, am I so happy?

27:08Okay, now why am I so happy and start to list reasons that then self valid date exactly that you're so happy That's right. That's right. And it's very difficult to ask that question not smile right so so these three are My I talk about showing up stepping up giving back right and you got a shot for us Which is just have a level of self -awareness of what paradigm you're living in right and anything that's not serving you Well go say well who else is being happy in the same situation? What did they learn from this as well? So after that is about the rest of the day. So the kind of stepping up part, I always ask myself for four and five.

27:40And I think even if someone just says something similar to those first three, similar to what you do where you go to focus at it, that already totally changes your state. The next part, which is the stepping up part, I ask two questions, what am I committed to? Because this is not to do list, it's just a commitment. Like what is that commitment? And how committed am I? Which is always a percentage, right? Because sometimes I'll be committed to something but it's just not fixing itself, I'm not sorting itself out. And I realize often it's because I'm not as committed as I think I am. So that just helps me without any to do lists or any action to just be present to what my direction is.

28:14And then my final questions are all about kind of the whole giving back part. I asked, what is my intention today? So that's why I do it at the beginning of the day. Intention is not again about actions. It's about putting it out there like in terms of the energy. Like if you're scowling all the time, you go around wondering why no one's smiling at you. right? It's because you're putting out there the negative energy you're going to get it back as well but you put out the right energy of intention and sometimes that intention actually the one after that which is what is my wish which is how's the universe going to give back?

28:44Buckness of Fuller he has this concept of lag where he says there is a lag time between thought and manifestation and if you're on the right journey if you're purpose driven you'll get rewarded very quickly right. My intention is that I get the right person who's going to come and help fund my project. They might just call me during the day, right? If I'm on purpose, if I'm on purpose, it's like going through the current, I might have to wait months, so I'm still not going to get that call. So I can then help guide myself on that. And then the final question is why am I here, right? And that is a very much a purpose -driven question as well.

29:14And we'll dive into purpose here, in which is one of the most important. You know, try and experiment if you're listening to this, enter your next business meeting and begin with gratitude. Begin with why you're so grateful to have this meeting, to have the opportunity to get to know this person or grateful about how far you've come. People love hanging out with grateful individuals instead of coming at it from what you need and what you want. It's a transformative change and a whole tenor of the conversation. Absolutely. And especially relationships, family. Relationships for 100%. Coming to it from the point of view of that gratitude.

29:52Otherwise, you'll be always focused at where things aren't right as opposed to what's already exactly where it's meant to be. It's a concept called being in the gap, which is, you know, if you measure yourself on how far you've come versus how far you want to go, which can be infinite, right? It's that ratio is really important. I mean, one of the things I do in the morning to to be in a grateful state is I will look at all the things I need to do during the day. And I will say these three are the most important. If I accomplish these three things, then today is a massive success. Right. Instead of at the end of the day, all the things I haven't done.

30:36So set yourself up for a win and to be grateful at the very beginning of the day. Two final things I think are really important around this concept of gratitude and practice, which is, first of all, is as much about what you don't do as what you do. So, for example, if you go through mantra and then use straightaway get onto social media, right? Guess what, right? Like the whole of what the algorithm works on is conflict, right? Everything is about who's dissing who, right? Who's mad at who, right? The opposite of gratitude, right? No one's like nothing about gratitude is showing up on the top of social media.

31:08So if you want to see conflict, if you want to see all of the things that make people feel they deserve more or things aren't right or that person's wrong, you're going to find it there right? So that's a really important thing as well. Have that in context later when you're gathering information or when you're connecting to people and realize, you know, that's where you basically better have your armor on already. Because if not, you're going to go into battle and you're going to get wiped from the side, right? That's one thing super important. It's protecting protecting your mind. Exactly. Exactly.

31:35Exactly. We'll talk about longevity later. I'm very careful about what I eat. And at the same way, I'm very careful about what I let into my mind, what conversations, what's on TV, who I'm hanging out with. All right. Our next one, Curiosity and Growth Mindset. Love this one. How do you define it? So for me, the Carol Dweck's book Mindset, which is all about the difference of a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset is everything to do with the fact that if you're stuck in a situation and you have the opposite of a curiosity or growth mindset which is a fixed mindset there like this is the only way or this is the only way I know you're constantly going to get stuck because you have no flexibility in the way you're thinking or you think there's only one right answer.

32:24Unfortunately a lot of the education system is built this way right. It's like fixed mindset if you get the right answer you get an A if you get the wrong answer you're going to fail right. As is not about needing to know in order to do. You're not gonna learn how to write a bike by reading a book on how to write a bike. You're gonna need to do in order to know. So that's more the entrepreneurial mindset, which is I'm not gonna actually know the right way unless I actually experiment, try new things out. And whatever was the way things were working, this is why we see multinational as collapse, because the model that did work, especially in fast -changing times, it no longer works.

33:00And if a board has a fixed mindset, that that business is going to collapse. So understanding that the curiosity in growth mindset is probably something that maybe 50 years ago when you had a stable job, when companies were going to be around forever, wasn't as important whereas today it is essential because it's how you then find the best answer, which is going to be different from what I was yesterday. Yeah, the world actually valued a fixed mindset. It valued knowing how to work on the assembly line and do A, B, and C. And I don't want you to deviate. I don't want you to be curious about what's happened on the side of the factory.

33:36I want you to do A, B, and C over and over and over again. And this is our educational system today. We want people trained to the test. We don't want them to be, you know, their minds wandering about what else is going on. It's interesting, you know, a curiosity and growth mindset today is enabled to a large degree because of our ability to experiment. There was the tyranny of certainty. I want to explain that. The tyranny of certainty was in the old days you would hire a consultant who was certain about how to market something or certain about who will want a particular product. That's the best you could have done back then.

34:16Today, I don't care what the expert says. I define the expert as someone who can tell you exactly how it can't be done. I want to run the experiments. I want to try a thousand experiments and actually see who wants what? You know, this is Amazon, this is Google, this is every tech company out there. You're ability to rapidly experiment and try a thousand different, you know, flavors of a product to find out what people want. There's a lot of time people don't even actually know what they want. That's right, that's right. And there's a level of humility. Humility is linked to gratitude as well.

34:49So if you don't have gratitude or that energy, which is that there's already enough that I don't know if they'll hold on to other best ideas or I have to be right, which is one of the worst parts about not having gratitude, which means that you then are like, well, I don't want to look stupid, so I better pretend I'm right when I'm not. I still remember my first mentor when I was 19 years old. I never met a millionaire before. This guy was from Columbus, Ohio and I was at Cambridge University at the time trying to start up my first business. This guy is my broncing. He came out to see me in our little business where we had with these students creating like these maps with little logos for, that we're getting companies to charge to be on the maps.

35:27And we thought we're doing pretty good growing it, but for sure there was so much I didn't know and I was getting really stuck in the business and he looked at what I was doing and he says, you know, Roger, I don't think you're ever gonna be successful. Because every time he was giving me a suggestion, I was like, no, we thought about that already, right? We tried that already. So I don't think you're gonna be successful. And I said, well, why do you say that? And he says, because you're smart. And I go, what do you mean? because we swap you from Cambridge, you swap, you know what the answer is already.

35:53And I'm like, okay, well, how did you get successful? And he goes, well, I've got success by knowing I'm stupid. Like, because I'm stupid. I mean, I'm never going to think I have the right answer, right? And even more so, I'll be hiring smart people like you to come out with all the answers for me, right? I love that. And I was like, okay, that's all. And so true, always hire smarter people than yourself. That's right. I mean, the curiosity mindset today is so critically important because because you can know, one of the things when I drop my kids off from school in the morning, they're sick of me saying this, but I say ask great questions.

36:24I think the ability, the curiosity mindset, the growth mindset is one that is always asking questions. And the day before something is truly a breakthrough, it's a crazy idea. And I just, I heard that first from Bert Rutan, who had built a spaceship one that won the I'm sorry, X -Prize, an adult spaceship too that Virgin Galactic is using. I was like, huh, day before something is truly a breakthrough, it's a crazy idea. I said, fastening, because if it isn't a crazy idea, then it's an expected and incremental improvement. But if it is a crazy idea, then where inside your organization are you trying crazy ideas?

37:08Where are you playing with crazy ideas? Where are you curious enough to say, well, what if we don't actually build bookstores anymore and we only provide books online? Could that work? Most breakthroughs, most new business models, and business models for me are where the real juice is an entrepreneur. Our experiments that people try and say, look, there's a signal here. And I'm going to try a little bit more and try a little bit more, but you need to have, if you're in a fixed mindset, you're going to just keep on doing the same thing that is always done. You're going to depend upon the expert consultant, and you're not going to go and try things that people knowingly believe will never work.

37:58Yes. Yes. I think there's also a kind of really interesting sequence that leads largely to a fixed mindset, which when you reverse it creates more of a curiosity mindset just in terms of like a, you know, an actual process that people can follow that I've done with World Financial News. The three C's, right? That basically, when you go through the normal education process where there's like here's a recipe, don't deviate, just do this thing, which is very much fixed mindset. It almost starts by saying, okay, first thing you need is you need clarity, right? So like, okay, if you don't know how to do that mass exam, start by reading the book and getting clarity, right?

38:34Okay, now I've got clarity, now I can take the next step. So what's the next step? Next step is certainty. Certainty that I know the answer, right? So until I get clarity, sorry, I can't make a decision. Number of times, you know, you'll be of someone and they'll have you started the business yet. Well, I haven't started yet, so I'm still trying to figure it out. I'm still trying, like, so you get stuck on that first part because there's no clarity. After you get certainty, which is absolutely, I know exactly that I can do this. Now you can commit to doing it, right? Now, if you actually look at anyone who's got a super high curiosity mindset, it almost starts the opposite way around.

39:05It starts by having the commitment first. I love the story of Elon Musk, where he's like, I'm going to figure out a way to get to Mars no matter what. How you going to do it? I don't know yet. Richard Branson, I'm going to find a way to basically go, how am I going to do that? I remember you telling the story when you were launching the XPRIZE, and he was like, well, I don't know how I'd do it, but I know that if I come and see who's one, I'm going to have the right person who can come and work with me around everything. But that first part, which is saying, okay, let me just start with certainty, even in the face of uncertainty.

39:33Like, I like this is what's gonna happen. I'm gonna get the commitment towards this. And the fact that it's not about whether it's gonna happen, it's just a matter of when, right? Like this might take a little longer. And my experience is that those who are successful is because it's not an opportunity that might happen. It's an obligation that must happen, right? The moment you like, okay. It's burned. It's burned the ships, it's committed to go. That's right. Some people have a health scare, where suddenly they realize I gotta change my health. And then they're so committed to changing it, they start getting very curious very quickly as to what they don't know.

40:01because if you don't have that commitment, you can be curious, but still not committing you go off somewhere else. Once you've got that commitment, then the certainty draws other people in. Other people will come along and say, well, then I'll help out on this as well, right? I still remember when, just on my Richard Branson, went to Neckar Island once I know we've both been there. When I had never met Richard before, as part of one of these entrepreneur groups, and I was all super excited to meet him. And it was like the middle of the day, we were gonna have dinner at night, and I went down to the beach bar and Richard Branson was there, right?

40:33And he was just here, like, having an hour and a three minute. And he's like, oh, okay. So I went on and said, hi, Richard, I'm Roger. And he goes, I'll wait for you for a minute. I said, from Bali, he goes, oh, have you, do you know about the Green School? Green School, a school there that I was the chairman of the board in. I was like, yes, I'm the chairman of the board. I'm super into the Green School. And I know you've been there. And he goes, absolutely, you know, I'm trying to figure out at the moment how to make version unique, which is a charity, think more entrepreneurial. How do you do that at Green School?

40:57Have you figured out ways? And I'm like, well, let me tell you what we've figured out. And then I start realizing, as I'm talking to him, I've been here for less than five minutes, and I'm giving the billionaire some advice. Like, how did this happen? Yes. And it's because he has this incredible talent for learned incompetence, meaning he knows answers. But he doesn't come saying, I've got these ideas. He comes with basically, I've got this commitment of where I want to go. How would you do it? Like, I don't know. Like, you know, what would be the way? And so the actual clarity comes by people filling the gap.

41:32I love by saying here's ways, right? Learning competence. And so I want to talk about how do you cultivate a curiosity and growth mindset? And I think that's the first one. It's always asking questions. Yeah. Right. It's finding people, you know, success leaves clues. Tony Robbins always says that. So who are the successful people that you can learn from? And also it's asking crazy questions. We'll talk about this in the moonshot mindset, which is, okay, I understand how I can go 10 or 20 % bigger. How do I go 10X or a thousand percent bigger? What is the crazy idea that if it succeeds is going to transform the entire industry?

42:16And it's difficult to get into that mindset. But I think it's it's absolutely mandatory if you really want to go and transform the world. I think that moonshot mindset almost it definitely becomes easier if you had some small wins on being curious about things you didn't know how it was going to work out but then it did work out because you were curious enough and you attracted the right people. Then the moonshot becomes easier because there's a very fine line between visionary and delusional. Right.

42:49I'm going to go to Mars and people believe it. I say I'm going to go to Mars. People wouldn't leave. I have no experience of credibility in actually launching rocket ships. So there is an element of not just internal trust, which is confidence, but external trust, which is credibility, where you almost have to earn the right to some extent. A number of people I have who will come to me with a massive moonshot. And I'll go, OK, you still got to build your credibility a bit more to get there, which means go be more curious, spend more time around the people. that actually can get this done. Because often we will, I still remember with my, my sister told me I was sure I was team mindset.

43:25With my sister when we had a swimming pool, I was seven years old. And she was always like coming off some really great dives and so on, I figured I'm gonna come up a dive she's never seen before. So I was practicing, practicing, practicing while she was at her ballet classes. She came back and I said, Elaine, I want to show you this dive that I've got, right? And so, and I even put a name to the dive. So basically she should go show me so I get onto the swimming pool and instead of like pointing forwards I turn around backwards and then I dive in and she goes oh I know how to do it back die too and I'm like How did you know that's what is called?

43:56I had You can't know this right and so for many for many of us we're we say okay I'm gonna go out and change the world But then we haven't already connected with the other people that are already doing that and realize wow It'll be so much easier working with others to do that and and that's a super important point about But gratitude and trust today leads you to the right people that then makes the moonshot possible. You know, I want to echo that and expand on it, which is having the humility to ask. Right? So one of the things I've started doing a lot is I'll go into the Twitter verse. I still haven't been able to call it the ex -verse.

44:35And ask people, what are your practices or what do you do? And when you can reach and get ideas from all corners of the universe, it's amazing what you can learn You know some people say oh my god, I don't want to ask because I don't want to give away my idea ideas are Free the difference between an idea and executing an idea is infinite and so being able to you know Don't worry about giving away your idea. Yes believe me someone else has thought of it a thousand times It's the person that executes on it and makes the difference. Yes. Anything else on the curiosity growth mindset? Do you think it's important?

45:12I think that exactly what you just said this whole aspect about being interested in letting go because you because you have to let go of being right, but you also have to let go of being the center of whatever game you're playing. So and what I mean by that is if we think about most opportunities or even the illusion of lack, even money, right? Like for some people it's like, well that's fine to say, you know, for me to go out and do lots of things for the resources, right? I just don't have the resources right now. But you don't need the money if you know the people with the money, right? You don't need the resources if you know the people with the resources.

45:48So, so the thing is, well, how do I build the real capital that's important, which isn't financial capital, that comes afterwards. It's actually the social capital people, you know, or the intellectual capital, the things, you know. And if you take an example like the Game of Football, right? Because because everything's a game and games have rules. And if you realize that the people with a high mindset are living in a paradigm, which frankly just operate by different rules. So let's imagine that you're looking at the game of football, you think the whole point of game football is to kick the ball, right?

46:16Like no point going on and not being able to get the ball. So football, you mean what we call soccer here in the night? Soccer. Soccer here. But actually, we could use American football as well, right? Just even being able to actually just get hold of the ball. What happens after you go chasing the ball, you never get it, why? Because it's always moving faster than you can get to it, right? plus people hate someone who just outchaste in the ball instead of actually being a team player. So you get off at the end of the game and you're like, that didn't work so well, right? I never got the ball.

46:40And then you ask others around, well, did you get a ball? Yeah, I got a ball. How many? I got a hundred balls. You got a hundred balls, right? Like, what about you? I also got a hundred balls. Like, what everyone got a hundred balls? How's that even possible? Right? When we talk about someone being a millionaire, it's not like they're just sitting there holding onto their million. It's the fact that they've got this flow, which allows them to actually be, like, you know, moving through with the ball passing from person to person. And you go, oh, okay. So you didn't get the ball by chasing it. You got the ball by being the opening or the place where it was most valuable for others to be.

47:08Right. So that curiosity mindset is really interesting one because it isn't just about what am I trying to solve or what thing am I trying to achieve for myself? It's what's the actual game that's being played here? What's the way I could be a value to other people in this game? You know, I call it the difference of being able to create a job instead of get a job. Because if you there's someone you really want to work with, right? like, you know, you and I went out doing some things together, which came from me asking, what is it Peter's looking for? You asked him, what is it Roger, other people are looking for?

47:35There's always a way to fit in. If the curiosity is about how to be a value to someone else. But it's starting with gratitude and giving. Exactly. Exactly right. I'll share another story. I learned it early on and I've never, ever forgot this. So I'm a sophomore at MIT. I'm running my first real organization ever called students for the Exploration Development of Space. It was a college -based space organization. And I was looking to raise $5 ,000, be able to typeset and print and mail a brochure. This is before the internet existed, before it was dark ages. And so I went to a place called Draper Labs, which was on the campus at MIT.

48:20And I got a meeting with the head of Draper Labs. and I went and pitched my heart out to get a $5 ,000 donation. And the guy said, I love what you're doing. I'm sorry, as a, we're a nonprofit, we're not allowed to make donations and you have a good cause and so forth. And I was just about to leave. I was literally opening the door and I turned around and I said, is there any chance, remember I'm trying to raise $5 ,000 to print the brochures and mail them out to the chapters. I said, there's there any chance that you could provide the printing and the mailing in kind he goes, oh, that's easy. And over the next few years, I got $50 ,000 worth of free printing and mailing.

49:04And so it's, how do you ask the question in the right way? Right? And so whenever I'm speaking to an entrepreneur and advising, I'm saying, never walk away from a meeting without having learned something, without having asked a number of questions understand how could I have done this differently, what could I have said differently, approaching it from a different place. And it's that kind of curiosity which will continuously have you learn and win in different dimensions. That reminds me of a story, exactly the same thing, especially for anyone listening who might be, I don't think I have a lot of resources right now.

49:42And then realizing it's actually the connecting of the dots that, in trusty, which makes a difference, I was, this is kind of giving my age a little bit, about going back to 1995, I was just finishing my first publishing company that I had and I basically was looking to get into technology. And there was Blenon, which is one of the biggest event companies in the UK. They were running something called Live 95, right, which was basically all of the electronics. So you had PlayStation launching there, you had Microsoft 95 launching there. It was all technology and it was consumer -fet. So you had like hundreds of thousands of people coming to Earth, called London.

50:14And I was like, I really want to go work with those guys to learn about all this because like don't have the technical knowledge myself. So I basically knocked on the door. I went in and met the event organizers, then was Bob Denton. And I said, Bob, I want to come and work with you. And go, sorry, I'm not hiring anyone right now. I said, no, no, no, I'll do it for free. I just want to be a value. Let me work with your PR company and see if I can add any value at all. He goes, okay, well, you go speak with the team there. So I went to the team and I said, look, I'll share my value with you in this way.

50:42You tell me who would be the top celebrities you'd want to have come and work with you. And then I'll say that it's my challenge to go get them, right? They said, well, how many? And I go, I don't know, one male, one female. They said, okay, at that point Joanne Lumley, who was in absolutely fabulous, like she was like really big in the UK. It's like, yeah, get Joanne Lumley for us because we can't get her, right? And then get Frank Bruno, who was like the heavyweight champion of the world at that point in the UK. And I'm like, okay, all right, I'm gonna figure this out. So so first of all, I said, okay, I'm gonna go to the different different exhibits, right?

51:14There was Sony, like I mentioned, with the PlayStation. I said, would you be up, if we could get Frank Bruno, would you be up for basically paying for him if we brought him to your stand, right? And they were like, okay, sure, we can do that, right? So I caught up the agent, that was an easier one. It's like $100 ,000, they said, okay, to that. And so we did that deal. And then I then did the same with Joanne Lonley. I contacted her team, I said, how much does it cost? And she goes, she's not doing anything at all for money because she's got enough money. What is she interested in? Well, she's she's working for Princess Trust right for charity So if you could find a way to actually help in the charity site and give a charity check for like $150 ,000 Well, then we'd be interested.

51:52Well, it was pound because you're in UK. So I said okay, okay I'll figure that out. So then I was like, well who's gonna put that money in and Radio one which basically was gonna be Sharing from the sage. They actually had a live booth there. I went to radio one and I said how many sponsors would you need to have in order for you to go 150 ,000 check. If we can get Joanna Lomney on here, could we have three sponsors, right? That would cover the 150. And then you just do a shout out for them to national radio. And they go, sure, we can do that, right? So then I could, then went out because I knew in the North of pay 150, but three people would pay 50.

52:25And then I brought both back and we managed to get both from on board. And I then ended up basically being the head of the PR there. But this, and I was like in my early 20s at the time, but I knew I had no resources myself. But from everyone one who was there, if I could connect the dots, that'd be the value there. And this is curiosity, not at the point of what can I get, but how can I help everyone get what they want and be the one that's joining those dots, right? I love that. It's true entrepreneurial energy, right? It's not accepting no, and there is an answer. There is always an answer, and then being curious about what that answer is and finding it and it's running experiments and it's coming up with ideas and asking people and just being relentless in that regard.

53:14And it's ultimately like we began the conversation, it's committing to it, burning the ship. That's right. And then saying, I have no choice. It's like, you know, when I announced the $10 million and sorry, I didn't have the money, it was like, I know there's someone out there. I don't know who it is. You know, 150 knows later, I found out that it was the Anc family, but there's always an answer. And I love that story when you share it because if you had deviated from that commitment and certainty It wouldn't have happened but because you always were committed and certain is interesting because a lot of people talk about Perseverance as a quality I personally feel perseverance is the in -product of this Commitment certainty if you know is gonna happen one way or the other of course you have to persevere right because you can't give up If you haven't made that commitment perseverance almost impossible, right?

54:02Yeah, and it's true I was absolutely clear. There was no question. There is somebody out there. And you know, give everybody, kept them saying, no, no, no, no, no. But there's a lot of wealthy people and corporations out there. There was going to be somebody. It was, you know, there's a great quote that I'm going to get sure I'm going to attribute it to. Maybe it's Martin Rothblatt. You know, every no is a step closer to a yes. And so celebrate those notes. I would add to that that every no, you need to take away why are they saying no and learn from that. You don't accept just the no and walk away with your tail between your legs.

54:40Learn from it. Even get a suggestion and an introduction as to who might you pitch next. All right, let's transition to one of my favorite mindsets, a moonshot mindset. I'm going to define it. So I've had the chance to have Astro Teller who's the captain of moonshots at used to be Google X, it's now X at Alphabet, and Astro's brilliant. There's a lot of YouTube videos of him speaking. He had him at a bonus 360. I've had him a number of times, right? His one, I think his maternal grandfather was a Nobel laureate, and his paternal grandfather was the creator of the hydrogen bomb. I mean, really incredible lineage.

55:27And Astro defines a moonshot mindset as going 10 times bigger when the rest of the world is going 10%. So a 10 % increase, you know, for most entrepreneurs it's pretty good. 10 % more revenue, 10 % more customers, 10 % lower costs. And we can go and achieve that by working harder. Right. You can work harder. You can take, you know, your organization and fine tune it and squeeze 10 % more product. profits out of it, but going 10 times, which is 1000%, you don't get there incrementally. It requires really clean sheet, reinvention of what you're doing. The example that he gives that I love is if you've got an automobile that's doing 50 miles per gallon, I'll use miles per gallon here, and you want it to go 10 % bigger to get to 55, you can do that by light -weighting the vehicle, maybe changing the tires, the aerodynamic flow.

56:30But if you want to go to 500 miles per gallon, there's no way to get there incrementally. You really need to reinvent and start with a clean sheet of paper. So that's for me a moonshot mindset. Do you have a different definition? I totally agree. It is, I mean, a new paradigm, think of a paradigm a little bit like a radio station, right? if you're going to be at a whole different frequency, you can't just be going incrementally to, like if someone says, OK, whatever my earnings are today, salary or company, what would life look like if it was 10 times what it is today? Like in the years time, if it was 10 times, what would I need to be doing differently?

57:06How do I need to be thinking differently? I still remember in Singapore when I started publishing company there, I'm now in my kind of like, you know, middle or late 20s, and I was doing it very much the traditional way I knew how. I was like raising the money, kind of like doing the printing. I had a magazine called the Singapore Property Guide. I knew a lot of the real estate agents at the time. And as I was going through how I'm going to grow this business, I was thinking very incrementally, like, okay, maybe I can increase the revenues a little bit. I can do this and do that. And one day this guy comes in, his name's Patrick.

57:37He was one of our top clients. He was a real estate agent. And he goes, Roger, I'm going to be an entrepreneur just like you. And I go, what do you mean? He goes, Sim Wong -Hoo, who was a founder of Creative Labs. he was giving like $10 million checks to startups in Singapore. He goes, I'm gonna get a million dollar check from Simonghu. And I'm like, you're a real estate agent. What's the business? What's the business? He goes, I don't know. I'm just gonna get a million dollar check. And I'm gonna like, okay, good luck to you. And I'd never seen a million dollar check, right? Our business was getting to our size, but it was a whole bunch of people spending $10 ,000 or $1 ,000 at a time.

58:10A month later, he comes back, he's got a million dollar check. And I'm like, what happened? And he goes, I told you, I do it. I did it and I said, but how? It like what business and he goes, oh, it's a business on cordless mice like for the computer. I'm like, what do you know about that? And he goes, nothing. He goes, well, how did that happen? You as well. I went basically into the, I went like everyone else had to go through like the application and everything and I got in front of Simohu and his group. And I said, I'm committed to taking your million and turn it into $10 million. Right? And I'm going to do it in something which is what you yourself want to have happen here in Singapore, which is through technology.

58:48And so Simon who says, so what's your business idea? And he says, well, before I give you my business idea, I want to know what is one of the biggest opportunities that you believe there is within the space that if someone came in with that, you would go for it. And he goes, well, right now we're trying to figure out all the accessories for the new laptops coming out. We're looking at the biggest one as a quarter's mice and how someone can figure that out. He goes, how many entrepreneurs have come to you pitching that idea? And he goes, well, not so far. He goes, well, then I'm going to be the one.

59:13I'll pitch that idea. I will commit to doing that because I'm more interested not in what my business idea is but having you as my mentor. So you get behind me. I will get the team. We'll make it happen because okay done. So you got really in that way. So I was like, oh my god, I'm really missing something here. And over the next three months, I said, what if you can get a million? I can get three million. And so I said, all right, why can't I get that three million now? Because I'm thinking too small. I'm thinking about one property guide. What if I had a whole bunch of products and I went to the VCs to basically tell them that this is what I had and What if I had someone running the business that I'd enjoy running it?

59:47So there's a guy called Peter Watkins who was the publisher at E -Map which is one of the biggest publishing companies. I knew him, he was an Australian who I went out for drinks once in a while and I said, Peter, you're not happy where you are? What if you came worked with us and we turned our business to a 10 million dollar business? He goes, your business is not a 10 million dollar business. It's not but it will be after I raise a 3 million. So he goes, okay, all right, I'll come on board but like when can you pay me? I said, well, give me three months, then I can pay you, but come and work for a couple of months for free, and then I'll pay you afterwards.

1:00:13And he goes, okay, so he came, like he took a leap of faith, because you see how certain about it. I then basically went out to all the different VCs, three I, which is one of the UK bench capital firms, they just got really behind the idea. And then three months later, I had this $3 million check. And for me, and I, those are the days of photocopies, why did a really big photocopies start? And for me, that was such a huge paradigm shift that would not have happened if Patrick hadn't come in. Basically saying he was already thinking differently, right? You know, I'm super passionate about longevity and health span and how to add 10, 20 health years onto your life.

1:00:49One of the most under -appreciated elements is the quality of your sleep. And there's something that changed the quality of my sleep. And this episode is brought to you by that product it's called 8 -Sleep. If you're like me, you probably didn't know that temperature plays a crucial role in the quality of your sleep. Those mornings when you wake up feeling like you barely slept, yeah, temperature is often the culprit. Traditional mattresses trap heat, but your body needs to cool down during sleep and stay cool through the evening and then heat up in the morning. Enter the pod cover by 8 sleep.

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1:02:00Visit www .8sleep .com that's e -i -g -h -t -s -l -e -e -p .com slash moonshots and you'll save 150 bucks on the pod cover by 8 sleep I hope you do it. It's transformed my sleep and will for you as well Now back to the episode You know, sometimes seeing an example is all you need to flip a bit and say, I can do that too. Yes. Yeah. And there are countless examples right now. So the moonshot mindset, so what it is is thinking at a new level and you can't get there incrementally. You have to literally commit to this new level and who do I need to be? you know, how do I need to act? You know, one other thing just to be clear, you don't achieve this moonshot overnight.

1:02:54If you look at the moonshot historically, the Apollo program between, you know, for which this is named, John F. Kennedy announces the intent of the moon in 1961 and we get there eight years later.

1:03:12If the first DARPA Grand Challenge to the first driverless cars. You know, it's a 10 year. And I joke that these are, you know, overnight successes after 10 years of hard work. For me, the Ansari Express was an 11 year overnight success. And so one of the elements that's super important in going after a moonshot is you truly have to care. You truly have to have an emotional energy. There has to be something that's driving it. It can't be something that, if I ever got into after something that it's just for the money, I'm going to give up before I get there. Going for something big and meaningful to make the proverbial dent in the universe is hard work.

1:03:58And it means failing and failing and failing over and over again, but having the emotional energy to look yourself in the mirror at 3 a .m. in the morning and say, nope, I'm going to keep going. I refuse to give up. This is possible. I've committed to this and so you have to look at what is the underlying emotional energy driving that moonshot And that emotional energy can be a positive awe You know like I love this, you know what are my companies? Was the company called zero gravity corporation? We do these weightless parabolic flights We went together, yeah, and you know my high points was flying Stephen Hawking in the zero G And I committed to that company of May of 93.

1:04:41It became operational in September of 2004. It was again 11 years of not giving up. But I was so committed to this. And there are other people who are driven by a negative emotion, like they've been hurt. They are someone their family's been harmed. I refuse to let this go on. I'm going to solve this problem. And so, you know, if you're going after a moonshot, you know, Elon's proverbial going to Mars or transforming into an electric economy, you understand that there is deep, seeded, emotional energy driving that. And so this is not a, you know, get rich quick scheme. It's a massive commitment of emotional energy.

1:05:26I still remember the first time I came to one of the programs of Singularity University, right? That's where we met up. And I was in Bali really thinking a lot about where the world is going, you know, is the Singularity coming. And I was watching some videos of yourself in Ray Coast while talking about Singularity and then Singularity University happening. At that point, I was at the Green School. I was focusing very much at like the education system, but not at a massive scale, right? I was talking about how could we grow things? But when I came out and we went on a couple of different field trips, and one of them was to one of the DNA printing labs.

1:06:08I never even remember back then, but I remember sitting there and we were all getting white coats. And there was a guy at the front, like some kid with jeans, like giving out Pepsi's and stuff. And I thought he was just working there. And then he stood up and he says, okay, guys, just to let you know why I invested in this company, the reason that this could change the world. I'm like, so speaking to the guy, I need to say, who is this? And he goes, oh, that's Luke Novak. He's one of the, the town mafia. And he's like a billionaire. And I'm like, well, and everything he was talking about was all about the big goal, right?

1:06:39And what they were looking to achieve. And I remember coming away from that, thinking, I'm thinking way too small about what's possible in education. And that's when I set that goal of entrepreneur curriculum. Can we reach a hundred million students? But once you start thinking like that, like well who has done that and so I met with Simon Khan when he'd hit 100 million and he was sharing how he did it what he did. It is about saying, look if I'm used to going you know 10 kilometers an hour on a bicycle and someone else is going about 1000 kilometers an hour could they have a rocket ship or a plane.

1:07:10What is it I need to learn from them because it's actually easier flying a plane than cycling a bike right once you get a going and this is about basically understanding that these are paradigms or vehicles And that was my shifting turning point as you already were talking about moonshots at that point. And I was like, yeah, like this is what allows you to stretch your own Thinking because as Seng goes, you know, if you think you can't you can't you can't you can't other way you're right, right? So it's about what can you now do to shift to different? Sure. How big is genius you now? So we're now about to reach five million students We've been growing by about 50 % a year.

1:07:47So we are on we're on track for that 100 million number which is the key, basically growing by 5 % a year by 2030, we'll be at that number based on that. And so like you said, it's not overnight. It's something which takes time, but it's a journey itself of you getting there. And knowing the solutions will change because the world is changing, right? Like we're now using AI faster than we thought we would because of what's happening with AI. Similarly, we're now using more with the Metaverse, working directly in VATM because that's now growing. So what's so interesting about a moonshot, it's a little bit like a horizon where you don't worry about changing direction and not knowing where you're going.

1:08:25If you know your destination, you can use the wind even if it's going the opposite direction to you. Sometimes that makes you go faster. You attack and you'll still get yourself to where you want to go to. But if you don't have that clarity of what the bigger goal is or what the bigger why is, you're going to constantly be sick with all of the shifts that are happening. It's so true. And the challenge is most people look at the successful launch of winners out there. And they think it's an overnight success, right? They don't know how hard people have had to work and the challenges and the failures until you dig in and you realize this was a massive commitment and it was achieved, the success was achieved on the back of a thousand failures along the way.

1:09:09Yes. It's interesting. One of the great stories I love is told by Bill Gross, who's the CEO of Ideal App out of Pasadena. And he is a consummate entrepreneur. He runs this massive incubator venture studio and he started hundreds of companies. And he did this. You can find it as a TED Talk and a deal detox by Bill Gross. And he talks about what was it that allowed some companies to succeed and other companies to fail. And he looked at I think like 100 companies that succeed, He asked questions. He was curious. He began not knowing the answer, came in with the curiosity mindset. He said, was it the experience of the entrepreneur?

1:09:57Was it the amount of money they had? Was it the marketplace they were in? When he looked at a dozen variables, it finally came down to, I don't want to call it, effectively luck, but it was how long the company was around, and it's timing to intercept an opportunity. So if you're a company that's a flash in the pan, you've got to raise a lot of money or you fail, versus a company that is able to generate revenue and succeed day by day by day, stay in the game and intercept an opportunity. So listen, SpaceX exists because the space shuttle blew up and there was a commercial launch contract that they won in 2008, they're about.

1:10:45Airbnb and Uber exists because of the 2008 financial crisis, and people needed additional revenue. Zoom exists because we had a pandemic, and everybody needed to have a capability for education. And so if you can stay in the game and have a big vision, then you're able to intercept you know opportunity along the way. Absolutely. I think this goes back to what we've just been going through. You've been going right back to gratitude mindset, curiosity mindset, when people go, okay, so it's all fair and good that if you're on the right wave when things take off, but how do you actually position yourself to even be where that wave is, right?

1:11:27Because all those companies you mentioned, they were just started by the time the wave came. And the truth of it is, if you see people surfing wave, it's really too late to surf that wave. It's really common gone. And too many people are holding onto the wave because they've been on the wave and now it's crashing and they're like oh no my business is changing at my industry changing. When you realize that all of these different individuals who who got positioned, they did position for the wave, they might have thought the wave is coming but they were doing it much more for who they were right.

1:11:55So the first couple of mindsets are very much around self -awareness and the three elements that make up the trivia and the Renaissance learning is self -awareness, self -mastery, self -expression which is very different from calculation and memorization and what we're going to call today, which is how to be about a computer. This is how to be about a human, right? So it's a whole piece of humanism. And self -awareness, one of the tools we use is the Ikigai, which is the Japanese concept of your... Ikigai, yes. Yeah, whatever. ...which is a combination of four things, which is what you love, your passions, what the world needs, which is your purpose, what you're great at, which is your genius, and also what you can get paid for.

1:12:29So you can actually have self -expression, whether it's a entrepreneur, whether it's a chef, whether it's a musician, and link these together. But this is what we should be grateful for. Like grateful for the fact we got unique gifts. Like we're living in a world where we're being divided by our differences when we should be getting united to our uniqueness, right? They were all actually at a place where we can honor and be grateful for what we have that other people don't have and then connect with them based on that as well. So we have, that's what we do with a test on this to get to scale where people go.

1:12:59Okay, now I know what kind of team I need. Now I know what I'm great at. Now I know what I shouldn't be doing. and that then leads into self mastery, which is where these consciousness show up in terms of how to live through these consciousness. And then of course self expression becomes easy because you're now doing it. You're living your life. Absolutely. Yeah. Let's talk about what it takes to have a moonshot mindset because it's not obvious to everyone. And how do you create a moonshot mindset in your organization? And should everyone in your moonshot in your organization have a moonshot mindset?

1:13:30So this is definitively affected, impacted by who you hang out with. Yes. So if you're hanging out with people who are constantly telling you, listen, your ideas are crazy. You're never going to get there, you know, and you're just pounding on you for like, get a job, stop thinking your Elon Musk, you know, stop all of these things. It's just debilitating. On the other side, if you're hanging out with people who are dreaming big and are equally looking for something, a huge moonshot, if you look at, for example, the PayPal Mafia. So there's a great book about the PayPal Mafia. So all of these guys are thinking about reinventing the financial industry.

1:14:16This is Peter Teo, this is Elon Musk, this is Reed Hoffman. And it's pretty amazing that Elon already had X .com way back then. I remember exactly this. Yeah, and he's coming back to implement that early dream. But those guys lived in a moonshot mindset ecosystem. Yes. And they played big with each other. and then when finally PayPal got sold to eBay, they all went through separate ways, but they all then went after their own moonshots. And very much succeeded. So I think if you want to play in a moonshot, I mean, this is one of the things that I love about, you know, the abundance 360 community, everybody in there to be part of it, you need to have defined your massive transformative purpose and have a moonshot that you're working at, you know, genius you getting it 100 million students and the multitude of other moonshots that you have Roger and then you realize and you share learnings you share experiences you when you realize that your dream is achievable You just need to be asking the right questions really driven by that passion Then when you hit a brick wall you don't give up and you will hit a multitude of brick walls and whether or not you keep going or give up is definitively your mindset.

1:15:43What's interesting about this is the extent to which success can lead to a moonshot or actually see up to the right around. The moonshot, that leads to success. I think one of the best examples of this, frankly, is the expiry. The fact that you start by saying what would be a moonshot within this particular cause or industry or challenge framing it and then seeing what happens when people go, okay, well then I'm up for this challenge. right and then you got all these different companies competing to achieve that same moonshot and they will learn from each other right So they don't do yeah, and for sure The key to all of that is defining the moonshot in the first place right and I'd really love the way that When you when you set up the x -price and and how far has come from that first one which is going to space to all the ones that are now getting created And how much everyone who comes in is not a single person that will regret the time and effort that comes into it because of everything they learn, and the fact that every one of those x prizes, right, with very few exceptions, does pool the whole industry forward?

1:16:40I'll hit one last topic on moonshots, which is if you're running a company right now, one of the things that Astro Teller taught us was you don't want your entire organization being a moonshot organization. If you've got a company that's successful and it's generating a good profitability, ability, you want the core of your organization delivering your product and services and that 10 % margin and just doing it really well. What you want is on the side, you want a moonshot team. And that moonshot team is reporting directly into the CEO. It's led by someone who has the attributes of a moonshot mindset.

1:17:25And what you want is the people in the core organization really focused on delivering the product and service. You want the people in your, on the edge of the organization focused on 10X. And you really want to say, listen, if you're in my moonshot group and you're thinking 10%, you're fired. I don't want you thinking 10%, that's not your mission. Your mission is a thousand percent. It's 10X. It's running experiments that are going to move the needle. And then ultimately when you create something that's extraordinary inside the moonshot organization on the edge, we're then going to bring that into the mothership to then operationalize it and give birth.

1:18:08We're seeing this right now as for example Microsoft is bringing all of the open AI capabilities into Microsoft, Sweet, Word, and so forth and Bing. So it's fascinating. So where the moonshot thinking exists in your organization? And also, by the way, if you try inside of your company to have that moonshot organization resident inside the group, there is going to be an immediate immune reaction that will squalch it. So when Steve Jobs created the Macintosh team, He put it in a separate building with a pirate flag over it saying, you know, stay away. And you know, this is the proverbial Lockheed skunk works.

1:18:54Yes. Right. A separate building, a separate team reporting directly to the CEO with a mission to do something impossible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's an element to the fact that when anything withdraws, right? is always going to go through the different seasons and it's going to get to a point where like you say, it needs to be able to deliver at a level where you've got the financial growth of the company. And what we're talking about here is really the pain of something which becomes a big enough challenge that it needs to be solved at a huge level. I remember a chat with I think it's Terry Fadel who was the founder of Nesta.

1:19:35Tony Fadel. Sorry, Tony Fadel. Tony, Tony's, I don't know if he's still there now, but he brought his kids out to Green School and he was out in Bali for a while. So we had our entrepreneur meetings there. So he came to one of the talks and I didn't know this, but before Nesta, he was also on the iPod team, right? He was working with Tony and, sorry, working with Steve. And one of the questions to him was, look, he's been on $2 billion products. What's the difference of a billion dollar product compared to a hundred million dollar product. And he said, look, everything I learned about that the big world changing difference came from Steve Jobs.

1:20:09And he says that what I learned from Steve Jobs is whereas most people, they think they've got a product, they think they've got a solution and they're ready to go. Steve Jobs was spend much, much, much, much, much longer on turning that problem into a world -sized problem so that it could then go out and make a much, much, much bigger challenge. He says, look, at the very first start when they were thinking about the iPod, they said, what's the problem we're solving? It's like, what the problem we're solving is the Sony Walkman has got one CD, it gets scratched. If that was basically digital, then that would solve the problem.

1:20:38And Steve's like, that's not a big enough problem, right? That's, that's like, that's not a painkiller that we're going to be delivering. That's like a vitamin, right? That's like, okay. So how do we turn to painkiller? And he says they spent about six months just going deeper and deeper. No, the real problem is that you have more in your musical library that you want to listen to at the same time. No, the real problem is that there's music all over the world that you all friends are listening to that you don't know about. And so it just got bigger and bigger and bigger and the end point was not just the iPod but iTunes, the whole platform, the whole thing where basically you're now solving something for the world.

1:21:08And of course, you know, you can see that this is the genius of Steve Jobs, right? That in the core of this idea that this is an opportunity versus this is an obligation, there's something about a moonshot which isn't just how big it is, it's the level of commitment that other people want to put to that same thing. Because all talent today is looking for the right companies to work with where they think they're doing something meaningful. If you're not working on a moonshot, you don't get to that talent, because that talent has gone off to work with someone who is. That's amazing. So I think that that, for me, was a really big eye opener.

1:21:39It's, if you want to get 10 times bigger, think 10 times more, go 10 times more in the microscope, 10 times higher quality, work 10 times better will make 10 times bigger, right? So how quality will make quantity, and that's something which so many people miss out on because they're so busy rushing to try and get somewhere Yeah, versus slowing down to speed up right and getting it right speaking of of ten times Let's talk next about the exponential mindset. You know, it's the core of Singularity University. It's also a lot of what you teach at genius you It's the core of abundance 360 You know an exponential mindset for me.

1:22:17I define as someone who realizes that we're not living in a linear world. That the speed of change is exponential and it's accelerating. The, you know, primordial example I give as a conversation I've had with Ray Kurzweil that says in the next 10 years, we're gonna see as much change as we have in the past century. Which is amazing. All right, everybody listening, you double, you know, linear mindsets, one, two, three, four, five, an exponential mindset is exponential growth, this doubling 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, a quick reference to memorize, double something 10 times, it's a thousand times bigger, a double at 20 times, it's a million times, double at 30 times, it's a billion fold, and our brain, the hundred billion neurons, hundred trillion synaptic connections are wired for a linear world, but we're living in an exponential world.

1:23:13And this is where people get, and companies is get disrupted because they're thinking linearly and their competition is implementing and thinking exponentially. Do you have a definition that's different from that or add to that? I can give you an example because I think the definition is absolutely right. Like the opposite of an exponential mindset is a, what you could say is a linear mindset but that is still assuming that things are going to grow or stay the same. But some people I think have actually got, instead of a multiply mindset, they have a division mindset, which means they think things are getting less.

1:23:49And as long as you think that's where things are going, you're going to hold on to what you've got, and you get right back to the beginning, which is the fear of loss. There's a little exercise which we did when we were running workshops around the world, where we would have a group of maybe 500 people in the room, and we basically would just play little game where you get someone onto the stage and I just basically do a little grid, like, you know, 3x3 grid, take a pan, put it zero in the middle, right? So of course they're like, okay, we'll put an X, right? And then zero, F, and we'll play an awesome process and no one wins, right?

1:24:21I said, okay, all right, well you obviously don't have to play. Okay, so here's the game. Everyone, you have one minute. Choose your team, like basically in that one minute, you can each have four of these grids, maximize your score. Boom, go. And then, and so everyone's off, going, going, going, and at the end of the minute, okay, how did one do? Who in other words zero, right? A lot of people like we got zero, like we just like zeroed out every time. Some people are like, we got five. Some people are like, we got 10. How did you get 10, you knew that? So then it's like, okay, so, play it again.

1:24:56So we do the second time and of course, some people are like, wait, hang on, if they got 10 and I'm getting zero, what are they doing differently, right? and they'd say, oh, look at that. They're actually helping each other to go XXX, oh, XXX, OK, now they've got three. It's like, oh, they're not even trying to fight each other. They're trying to do this together. And it will get to a point where, OK, now, how much? OK, you got 10. You got 20. You got a hundred? How did you get a hundred? How's that possible? Oh, you don't have two people in team. You've got eight people in your team, right? You're in three dimensions.

1:25:22So you're actually getting this way, this way. And at the end, there are getting thousands and thousands of points. And it's the same game as just that the rules we assume is that you're trying to stop the other person from getting through in a row and you're trying to get free versus maximizing score. And so there's an aspect of everything we just talked about before in order to get exponential. You have to have a gratitude mindset, right? You've got to have a moonshot of some sort, which is going for something bigger. You've got to be curious enough to try it again and try it again and know that the first time you're doing it is just the first iteration.

1:25:51But if you start realizing that not only are we living an exponential world where all the success comes from those who understand and are flowing through that, I mean, this is what Warren Buffett says, you know, the greatest magic in investing is compound interest, right? This idea of things keep on accelerating. But for so many people because they're still stuck in a zero -sum game, they can't even think of how to get beyond that. And these are all the unwritten assumptions that we actually had that put us in that space. And we'll talk about this when we get to an abundance mindset as well, which ties in.

1:26:25The challenge we have is the majority of the world lived in a linear situation that if you wanted to double revenues, you would have to double the number of people working and the number of plants. And of course, that's not the case anymore in a digital world where you can replicate a piece of software for zero marginal cost and you can transmit a piece of software for or zero marginal cost. Things get very different very quickly. A few stories that I love is the story of Kodak, a guy named Steven Cesson in 1975, invents the digital camera. And he walks into the board of Kodak with this thing about the size of a small toaster and he goes, here it is, the future of Kodak, it takes point zero one megapixel images in black and white and records it on a tape drive.

1:27:20And of course, the board of Kodak is going, that's insane. We're in the paper in Chemicals business. And of course, one of the challenges is, you have to be careful of what business are you really in versus where do you make your profits today. So Kodak did make their profits on the printing the photographs, the paper, and the chemicals for developing the film and so forth. But when you go back and read what George Eastman, and the founder of a codec, you started the company in particular to preserve people's memories. And when this alternate technology of digital photography came along, which was much more aligned with his original intention and his own purpose, they missed it.

1:28:07And they were just in fear that this demonetization and this democratization would destroy the company. and a few decades later, Kodak goes bankrupt. And what's interesting is the same year that Kodak goes bankrupt, a company called Instagram is acquired by Facebook, now Meta, for a billion dollars and they had 13 employees. And today of course it's a hundred billion dollars on Meta's balance sheet or more than that. And so this shift of mindset of thinking, okay, Well, if we're going exponential and we're demonetizing things and democratizing things, our market is going to get massively bigger.

1:28:53And the other thing is where we make our money is going to change or the business model is going to change. So business models for me are Nirvana. I'm always looking for one of the most interesting and exciting and reinventing business models. And we're going to see a lot of that in this exponential world. I've always seen so many of it right now, right? I'd love to talk to yourself and Selim Ismail did recently on the fact that we're going to see billion dollar businesses having impacts to millions, if not billions of people, which could be three -man or three -woman companies, right? And this is because of this ability to leverage at scale now.

1:29:29And I think that one thing that definitely in my experience, in terms of breaking out of that thinking that things need to be the same is constantly be looking at back to the 10X that comes from the moonshot. Like if our company was doing 10 times or 100 times more, what would that mean for the company? Like where would the bottlenecks be? What would it be things that we can't be achieving? Because you guys are dealing with this many queries and something we're going to have like 100 times more. Like how can we look at this whole thing differently so that we actually argue it up for it? What are the ways that we could be attracting a lot more people out there that are then coming on board and being part of a bigger movement.

1:30:08Who could we pan right with? That would already make us 100 times a size. All these different elements and these things, ways of thinking about scale, are very scary or even unbelievable to someone who's still at the point where it's like, I'm still just trying to figure out just how to make enough of my family, right? But when you're in the right environment with those areas where things are scaling and growing, which is where the world is going. And it's what I love about all the different areas of the singularity that you've built and the way that you've got all these different industries that themselves are huge, achieving rune shots and going exponential, and the learnings that happen across different disciplines, right?

1:30:47That's where the real learning comes in at the moment, I believe. I've learned so much by watching what's happening within the long -jewelting movement or what's happening within, you know, not just education, but entertainment, and seeing just how much you can learn from what other people are figuring out within those areas, which did not be used to be how things were, where university makes you specialise, or you make you specialise, and so you miss out on the mindset that you can be learning versus just the knowledge. Everybody wants to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that's very important to me, and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love.

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1:31:58We have four across the US today and we're building 20 around the world. These centers give you a full -body MRI, a brain, a brain vasculature, an AI -nabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque, dexascan, a grail blood cancer test, a full executive blood workup. It's the most advanced workup you'll ever receive. 150 gigabytes of data that then go to our AIs and our physicians to find any disease at the very beginning. When it's solvable, you're gonna find out eventually. Might as well find out when you can take action. Fountain Life also has an entire side of therapeutics. We look around the world for the most advanced therapeutics that can add 10, 20 healthy years to your life, and we provide them to you at our centers.

1:32:46So if this is of interest to you, please go and check it out. Go to FountainLife .com -slash -peater. When Tony and I wrote our New York Times bestseller Life Force, we had 30 ,000 people reached out to us for fountain life memberships. If you go to FountainLife .com -slash -peater, we'll put you to the top of the list. It really is something that is, for me, one of the most important things I offer my entire family, the CEOs of my companies, my friends. It's a chance to really add decades onto our healthy life spans. Go to fountainlife .com, backslashpeter. It's one of the most important things I can offer to you if one of my listeners.

1:33:30Alright, let's go back to our episode. So let's talk about why an exponential mindset is important. I'll throw out the first and I'd love your thoughts. every business company industry is going to be disrupted and reinvented this decade. No company, no industry is going to survive the convergence of AI, robotics, AR, VR, blockchain. They're going to be reinvented. And there's a constant force towards massive demonetization and democratization. And so you're either disrupting yourself or someone else is. And so putting on this exponential mindset hat and saying, how will we disrupt ourselves? What will it take?

1:34:20How do we bring down our cost tenfold? How do we increase our market reach tenfold? And then a hundredfold and a thousandfold? And how do we make stuff free? Right? I think is a trained inquiry that entrepreneurs need to be taking on, or you're not going to survive. You agree with that? I totally agree with that. I think the moment you look at exponential areas of our entire society and say they're going to be inevitable, and this is where I guess really interesting, the whole difference of basically, where everyone trying to fight for a piece of the pie versus realizing we're in a bakery where you can just keep on baking more.

1:35:02So because of that look at something like electric cars. If you say, well, it's inevitable that you're actually going to have the cost of solar power continuing to come down that you're going to have the ability for batteries to be able to continue to become more efficient. It's inevitable that that eventually is going to be far better on the economics for there to be, uh, uh, uh, cars then, then, then fossil cars. You can say the same thing about scripted currencies, right? And the idea that if you have basically instantaneous settlements and you also have the ability to have distributed trust, it's inevitable.

1:35:38Uh, take education. It's inevitable, then education or content will eventually be free, right? Because it's already going that way. And the best teachers will be AI is exactly right. So, so, so when you say what that's inevitable, it's just a matter of when. Then you can already be gearing up for being in the right place, right? time rather than later on going well that was a surprise because it wasn't a surprise right and I think that's where your your 60s are exactly about understanding and predicting where we're going to be seeing exponential growth because things actually become free of charge and they become fully decentralized.

1:36:11Let me take a second and explain the 60s thank you for that so I wrote about this in either abundance or bold. And the first D is that is digitization. We're digitizing everything. We're digitizing architecture, biology, manufacturing, everything is getting digitized and everything. And one of the things that as an entrepreneur you should be looking at is if you see something that's not yet digitized, mark that as a massive opportunity. And when you make things ones and zeros, in the early days, it's slow and deceptive growth. The deceptive is your second D. So that first digital camera, the first year was .01 megapixels.

1:36:57Next year was .02, .04, .08. And to the board of Kodak, it all looked like zero. It was a flat line. And you know, you might not actually blame them for like laughing at this thing that is, you know, on a tape drive and black and white images. But 30 -dabling, doubling later, it's a billion times better and film is gone. And so the third D is disruption. So digitize something. Early days, it's deceptive. Same thing in 3D printing. I remember the early 3D printing, how slow it was, and how limited it was in the materials, the plastics that we're using. Now we're 3D printing at extraordinary rates across all kinds of colors and materials.

1:37:43And it's like amazing, Nirvana 3D printing. The same thing in AI. AI is 60 years old. It was first conceived of at a conference in Dartmouth in 1956. And you had this slow, slow, slow progression. And now all of a sudden it's here and disrupting everything. So you're going to see this over and over again. And the fourth D is what I call dematerialization. And dematerialization is the things that used to be atoms are now becoming bits. So on your phone, the proverbial example is that we have thousands of dollars, millions of dollars of free things that used to be a video camera, used to be a thing, a collection of books and records, two -way video conferencing equipment.

1:38:29It wasn't long ago that that would have cost you tens of thousands of dollars and it's now free on FaceTime or free apps out there. So, all of these things become fully dematerialized and they are ones and zeros. And when they become ones and zeros, the cost of replication is effectively zero and it is demonetized and then because they can go everywhere, they're democratized. And so as an entrepreneur, with an exponential mindset, you're looking at how do I digitize something to dematerialize it, demonetize it, democratize it. And if you're a linear thinker, if you're an old school thinker, it's scared that shit out of you, right?

1:39:07Because it's all, oh my god, my margins gone, my business is gone. It's going to be gone. It's just a matter of, are you going to inherit the next iteration or someone else? Yes. I think it's super interesting as well, because for many people when they hear about the 60s, it can make you think, oh, does that mean everything's going to just be automated and free? And the reality is a lot will be, but it also then transforms industry. So you take something like the travel industry. And I remember like listening to you 10 years ago and thinking, hmm, this is going to totally change the way that people are operating online because the money's going to move, right?

1:39:43It's not going to, like, it's true. No one goes and pays for a travel agent now to just basically book your flight, right? Because that all just happens automatically. And it's much faster, it's much cheaper to just a little more. But that doesn't mean there aren't more people in the travel industry that just gone to the experience side, right? Now, there's a tour operators. Now, they're the ones that are actually creating even better hospitality and new willing to pay more money for that than before. And education's the same thing. Like the teachers, they're not the ones who are transactional saying, I'm just going to teach you what's in the textbook.

1:40:10Because you can just basically get that from a video online much, much more effectively with kind of gamification. But someone that can guide you and personalize and make it transformational for you, they're all going in that direction as well. So for sure, this is about not just saying, well, If the way I'm making money right now is going to have to change the whole industry is changing That doesn't mean people aren't spending money. They're just spending it more on quality instead of quantity Yeah, right trans and and that's a really important thing. How are business models changing as a result of these so that you don't end up Basically just being again going back to business models in exponential organizations 2 .0 that sleep and I released earlier this year We talk about you know the the concept of better than free.

1:40:53And it's the concepts that come from this, it's personalization to a large degree. And there's a whole slew of elements that yes, it's free, but I'm gonna pay for added elements to it that take this freemium opportunity and make it even more viable to me. Yeah, just a quick story about this whole thing about shifting mindset and how all these mindset that link with each other. I was in South Africa, this would have been about 2016, so a while back and we were at a conference there. And at that point, South Africa, a lot of the entrepreneurs, business people were super negative about the country.

1:41:33They're like, you know, it's fine for you to come from overseas, talk about like, you know, opportunities elsewhere, but here in South Africa, not so easy, politics makes it difficult, economy makes it difficult, our land exchange rate makes it difficult. And I'm like, guys, this is all mindset. Like this is, if you think this way, it's gonna be true, right? but you also happen to be on the seat of the fastest growing continent in the world and it has the highest density entrepreneurs in the world and you're talking in this way, right? And we had just gone on a Safari like the weekend before in Kruger and it was just incredible and the experience we had and we were talking about just the elements of like how nature works and how you can put that into the idea of business.

1:42:09So I said on stage, I said I'm going to be investing into South Africa and it just came to me in my head It's like we're going to get a Safari here, right? And everyone just gave a standing ovation like we're going to bring money into to the country and everything like this. But I got off the stage and my team were like, Roger, you know, you just said, we're gonna buy a safari and I'm like, yeah, we are. Like I'm just committed to this place. We're gonna make it happen. They're like, how? I have no idea how. We'll see. And then someone came up from the audience and said, oh, you serious about getting a safari?

1:42:35And I'm like, sure, yeah. And he goes, well, because like my friend is one of the best real estate agents for safaris. I said, well, then let's look up a core where we can go and go through the whole thing. So we did, because you do realize you can't get a mortgage for safari, you're gonna pay full cash for this thing, right? It's going to cost you a lot of money. And I'm like, okay, well, we'll figure it out of way, right? But like, just book out where do we can go see them? So the next trip I came back, we had a number of different ones we went to have a look at. And there was one absolutely beautiful one in a place called MidiCree game lodge.

1:43:01And I met it with the owners there. And I was looking at the price tag. And I'm like, I don't know, like this thing was what, 5 million. And I'm like, like, that means putting down 5 million cash. I said, but actually, I'm going to basically make commitment that we're going to buy it. It's going to give enough time for uncertainty become certainty, right? So two years we'll do it, and we'll do some vendor financing. And then from there, I then, on the next event we had, just said, hey guys, who wants to be one of the investors here? We had some people who said, we could be interested, but we got to see the numbers.

1:43:27We brought them all out to have a look at the place. And I said, hey, I'll tell you what, we're going to run some conferences and events at a Safari just like this to show that we can actually bring in the business. And if we do that, we'd be willing to invest. And they said, well, yeah, you can do it for us. So we did it. We could see that we could make it work. They then basically said the problem is that, you know, this whole thing could be taken away by the government if they want to. I'm like, all right, what's the way around this? And one of them said, well, have you thought of basically bringing all of your different resort ideas together into one?

1:43:55And on that weekend, they came up with the idea of us bringing it all together and one, I went back to Johannesburg and someone says, hey, we can list the company and actually get us started to raise the money that you need to do this. So by 2017, we did an IPO of the whole company. We raised the funds. It allowed us to get the whole thing started. And then we saw what The real value is, is the fact that we're bringing entrepreneurs from different parts of the world, that entrepreneur resource company now is part of our new or stock exchange company, without spitting it off into a separate company, and we've got licenses of people who currently run resorts and cafes that are now willing to pay to have a license for entrepreneur resource to be building.

1:44:33And it's become this multimillion dollar business that all came from basically just this absolute commitment we want to have to Africa. I love that. Absolutely, love that. And by the way, I fully agree that Africa is a rising star, massive rising star of the youth, the entrepreneurial energy there, the resources, you know, India. I think it's, you know, China's waning, India is rising and Africa is right behind it. So that there's this hungry energy, which is, which is really a core part of entrepreneurship, largely because for a lot of them, like, hey, I got nothing for you. So, and that is one of the biggest challenges for mindset.

1:45:11If you think that you have something to lose, then you're never going to take the steps, which don't even have to be risks, actually, but then more about what you're willing to give up on in order to go on to the next step. It's also just the getting your mind into that creative space. Yes. It is possible. I don't know how yet, but I know I'm going to solve it. Yeah. Now, Africa, just another example is, you know, It was not 20 years ago, 20, 25 years ago, where it was like a seven -year waiting time to get a landline from the PTT, of course, and then boom, mobile, explosives. That's right, yeah.

1:45:50Huge opportunity. And we're going to see these greenfield reinventions of industries. I'm waiting for EV tall. One of the biggest challenges with Africa is the road system from the rains and so forth are awful. But let's skip building roads and fly through the air, right? That's coming not too far down. So on the exponential mindset, how do we cultivate it? Let's talk about that. I think one of the ways to cultivate it, again, is by who you hang out with. Yes. So one of the things I'm really focused on at abundance 360 and you are a genius you is pulling people together and showing example after example after example of how an exponential mindset reinvents this company reinvents this industry and get people to start to think about it.

1:46:47I think it's really forcing people to think about how would I digitize every aspect of my business and what does that mean? Do you have other means by which you might cultivate an exponential mindset? I think what's super interesting is this whole idea of how what you think might be big to someone else is small. That whole conversation, oh, and also what you were saying about Steve Jobs earlier. Yeah, but also recently, like at the abundance 360, when you had Tony Robinson stage and he was talking about his moonshot, about 100 billion meals, right? And where it started with a billion meals, in fact, I started 100 million meals, and then a billion.

1:47:27And when they were getting together to say, well, we've now achieved a billion meals, what's next? 10 billion? And he said, well, what would it look like if I had to be 100 billion? Like, because you know how big an issue this is. And when they started thinking that way, and thinking, well, we can't solve this the same way we've been solving it. So we're talking about a much, much bigger moonshot. But at the same time, if we're going to go down this route, who out there would be willing to sponsor 100 million meals? right? Like there's people giving away in the giving pledge billions of dollars.

1:47:56And so, you know, connecting up with the Forbes summit, like, you know, connecting up with the people that had the money and then bringing together the solutions, right? And working together with the guys out in India that figured out smarter ways to actually go to scale, right? Working together with feeling America, working together with the UNICEF and where they already had models that they were already working at scale one as well. No question that scales are relative. So if you really care enough about something and you can see things going exponential, there already are people there who are thinking about the consequences of that.

1:48:29And there's usually not the government, right? There's usually the entrepreneurs at that level. Probably the most impressive exponential thinker I've met besides Ray Kurzweil is Elon. And he uses something called first principle thinking. So, remember, I was at a lunch with him and the head of Fiat and Elon was talking about the early days of Tesla. And when they went after the Roadster, they assumed that the Lotus body would work and that the batteries would get better and better. And it turned out the Lotus body didn't work and the batteries that he planned had to be changed. And he was in so deep at that point financially that he couldn't cope backwards.

1:49:19He had to go forwards. And so they had to reinvent everything as he's done over and over again. But the element of zero of a first principle thinking is he went and calculated what is the spot price of the cobalt and the lithium and the nickel that you would need to create these batteries. If you were to buy those materials in bulk off of a particular exchange, and then what is the price today for the battery? And you realize it was a massive reduction that was possible. And so that gave him the faith that they could do that. The same thing in SpaceX when he went to Russia to go and buy a rocket and realized these guys were selling 50 -year -old ICBMs.

1:50:06They took the warhead off and they put your payload on. They were charging ridiculous money. You throw the whole thing away. If we look back at first principle thinking, what if we could make a reusable engine that could be fired hundreds of times and reuse this thing, how low could we make the price. And that gives you the confidence to look at the exponential curves that will get you to the price point and the market size, the nirvana that you want. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think, I mean, absolutely right, like the way he explains it and the way he thinks of everything from scratch, not just in terms of what the pricing is now, but what it could be in a year or two based on technology and how that's changing as well.

1:50:48And really what that's all about is again, challenging current mindsets or current mind view worldviews that people have had based on old structures and all systems. And I think that probably that's one of the biggest things in all of these mindsets is like we said, like we really got a mindset. But if you've got a mindset that's been taught to you or that's been drawn to you, which isn't serving you, you've got a question and saying, what am I actually believing? You know, a belief is simply a thought which comes with certainty, right? So am I really certain about that before, is there an actual different way to do this?

1:51:19And we see all the biggest breakthroughs happen when someone has questioned something, shifted it, and then people go, why didn't I think of that, right? That's something that anyone could have thought of. But it comes down to basically quality, like you say, not of the answers, but of the questions that we're asking. Yeah, now I agreed. An exponential mindset isn't easy. Our brains are wired for linear thinking, all right, we evolved on the savannahs of Africa 100 ,000 years ago and the world was very local and linear. It was local because nothing affected you that was not within a day's walk unless it was an asteroid strike on the planet and nothing changed, you know, generation to generation millennium to millennium.

1:52:01So our brains are wired in a linear fashion. Our brains are wired of I'm here and there's a lion here. can I get to the tree before the line gets to me? I mean, fundamentally. And today we are continually surprised, disrupted, blown away by this exponential change. So even I tell people, listen, we're gonna see a hundred years, a century worth of change in the next 10 years. What does that look like? And despite the fact that we'll talk about that, people have typically an inability to think beyond a linear extrapolation of today. Yes, yes. And it's really tough. I think, I mean, I love the whole story of the rice and the chess board, right?

1:52:51Yes. And that whole idea for anyone who hasn't heard it, that the inventor of the game of chess, so the power goes, basically, he went to the King of India and says he's this great game of chess and the King goes, Well, this is an amazing game. Like, how much do you want for this? Like, you know, you name your price and it goes, well, just give me a grain of rice on the first square and then just double it on the second square. Once we're up to six four squares, I'm good. It's like, perfect, no problem, right? It will give it to you, right? And then when you actually work out exactly how much that is, and the first half of the chessboard is a doubles up, you end up with maybe a field.

1:53:24It's 10 ,000 kilograms of rice. That's right, that's right. By the time you get to second half of the chessboard and you keep on multiplying it, you end with basically a mountain of rice bigger than Mount Everest and more than ever, Rises ever being created in North Humankind. And so of course, when the Emperor hears this, then he chops off the guy's head, right? But that whole story, that's someone who understands multiplying. And we do this as an exercise with entrepreneurs we're working with. If they really are in that exponential mindset where they're saying, I want to go for something much bigger, let's say someone says, okay, I want to make an impact to a million people, or I want to make a million dollars.

1:53:57We'll see where they're at right now. Maybe they're at 10, maybe they're at 100. But say, OK, well, how many more zeros you need to add to this? And it's super interesting because even the word zero, because if you are at 100 or 1 ,000, let's say, and you wanted to get how many more zeros you need, you only need four more zeros and you're at a million, right? So it's like, OK, so each of these is a paradigm shift. What does it look like when you're 10 times more? What does it look like when you're 10 times more? How long is it going to take you to take four steps? There's only four steps, right?

1:54:23OK, maybe one year for each of those steps. And the word zero comes from the fero, which is basically a placeholder in the Sufi system. And it was the Earl of Pibinachi, right? Earl of Pisa, who basically brought this into the numbering system in the West. And Zapiro broke up into two things. It broke up into the placeholder zero, because before that there wasn't a numbering system. And it also broke into Cypher, which is basically code. So for example, if I go to Japan and I don't speak Japanese, I haven't decoded it, then all of it means nothing to me. But if I learn that language, suddenly it opens up a whole new world.

1:55:03And so each of these paradigms or mindsets shift you to a different level, where that allows you to then go, oh, you know, another zero, it's nothing now is everything, next one nothing now is everything. And once you do that, it's like, wow, I just got four steps to take, and I can get to that exponential growth. So if you're thinking, I've got to add, you're going to constantly add complexity, you're never going to get there. But if you're just simplifying and then multiplying simplicity, It's like, oh, we do this. That can multiply very quickly. Then you can get much bigger, much faster. And that's what exponential thinking is all about.

1:55:33Everybody at his Peter, a quick break from the episode. I'm a firm believer that science and technology and how entrepreneurs can change the world is the only real news out there worth consuming. I don't watch the crisis news network. I call CNN or Fox and hear every devastating piece of news on the planet. I spend my time training my neural net the way I see the world by looking at the incredible breakthroughs in science and technology. How entrepreneurs are solving the world's grand challenges. What the breakthroughs are in longevity. How exponential technologies are transforming our world. So twice a week I put out a blog.

1:56:12One blog is looking at the future of longevity, age reversal, biotech, increasing your health span. The other blog looks at exponential technologies, AI, 3D printing, synthetic biology, AR, VR, blockchain, these technologies are transforming what you as an entrepreneur can do. If this is the kind of you use you want to learn about and shape your neural nets with, go to demandus .com, backslashblog, and learn more. Now back to the episode. Alright, one of my favorite mindsets. So let's go to our next one, the abundance mindset. that. I came across the abundance idea that led me to then go right in my first book with Stephen Kotler and then launch the abundance conference.

1:56:56I was at Singularity University. I remember I was with Ray Kurzweil and Neil Jacobsstein, who is heading our AI group, and we're having a conversation. The conversation went something like this. Everything is becoming more abundant, great, okay, interesting idea, but show it to me. And the realization was that technology was a force that turned scarcity into abundance. And we started talking about this over over this lunch. And it was like my favorite example is, you know, we used to go and kill whales to get whale oil to light our nights. Then we ravaged mountains to get coal, then we drilled kilometers under the ground and now we're living on a planet with 8 ,000 times more energy from that hits the surface of the sun than we consume as a species and now we're about to unlock fusion energy, right?

1:57:53So there's this massive abundance of energy and you said it slightly earlier, I give two examples of an abundance mindset and how technology can unlock abundance. And so, you know, I'm 5 '4", if I have an orange tree in the backyard, and I go and I reach for all the oranges I can reach, at some point I've reached everything I can, and oranges are now scarce, until I invent a ladder that gives me higher reach. Now oranges are abundant again. The other example I give is if you have a pie that you've baked, and you've got, you have expected four people over for dinner, but eight showed up. all of a sudden you got to slice the pine or thinner and thinner slices.

1:58:38And abundance minds say, there's no screw that. We're just going to bake more pies. And so this is what technology enables us to do. Right. Go from film photography, which is expensive. Remember the days you used to like hope you got that photograph and you'd pay for all of the photos to get printed. And now you just take a thousand photographs and hopefully you got the one you can see it right then and there. So I believe there is nothing truly, truly scarce that you can flip everything into an abundance mindset. I'll give one last piece and I'd love to hear your thoughts and it's the notion that the core wiring of our brain are default thinking, right, that evolved again 100 ,000 years ago on the Savannah's of Africa was a scarcity mindset and a fear mindset.

1:59:30because that's what saved our lives. Scarcity, you would hoard because you never knew where your next meal was coming from, fear, because there was clear and present danger everywhere. And so that mindset is we're always battling against that as our default mindset. How do you define abundance in your mind? You're, I'm totally with you that abundance and lack. And lack is one of the most debilitating sets, because then you always feeling you have to hold on, right? Like I got to keep my piece of this pie. We have one of the docuseries that I'm working on with Jeff A's and the docuseries company that's now part of Genius Group is about the World Gap.

2:00:16Because I think a lot of people think of the World Gap and the idea that some people are getting richer, like as you say, a pie, right? Because if it's a pie and that person's getting richer, I must be getting poorer, right? Like the money's coming from somewhere. And if instead of thinking about it like the pie where you got this fixed thing and we realize just how much new money has been printed, we realize how much new creativity is come into the marketplace like this is not a zero -sum game and you think about it a little bit more like an actual race where you got two people in their running and one person figures out you know what I could actually build a bike right and now they're cycling and then because they figured out they didn't have to run and now they build a bike they go well actually I could build a car actually I could build a rocket ship and so now they're going so far ahead by the end of the race, the World Cup is so high.

2:00:59Now, you don't have to keep this person off his rocket ship for this person to go faster. You're not going to go faster, right? But there's nothing stopping you from also having a bike or also having a rocket ship, right? And you can learn from that and do that. And that I think is exactly like baking more pies. It's like, it's like knowing that no one's necessarily taking something away. And this seriously is your assumptions that the government or someone has made it, or with the education system makes only X number of people get an A. So then the only where you get one is someone doesn't get one.

2:01:26But those are manufactured games, right? I love this such an important, so this wealth poor gap. Again, I just, I wanna double down on this because of the important conversation, but I'll be to understand, because I do believe we're heading towards a world where we can meet the needs of every man, woman, and child and create abundance, not a world of luxury for everybody, but a world of possibility, a really important distinction. You know, for most of human history, it was the king and the queen on the hill, right? The Pharaoh, the emperor, whatever you want, and everyone else in Squalor. And it was, you know, very little at the top in the mass majority.

2:02:07Now we've moved people into middle class and so forth. And yes, we're also, you know, spreading the wealth gap, meaning people are getting wealthier at the top faster than the majority. But there's going to be a point where there will be billionaires living on Mars and everybody has access to all the food, water, energy, healthcare, education that they want and need. And the wealth cap will be huge. But does it really matter if everybody's the base of this pyramid has been raised to a point of abundance for everybody? That's what I'm working for, right? It's very interesting this, because everything you're sharing and even this whole idea of this wealth gap, you know, being a race, like there'll be people listening to this who'll be like, look, that's, that's time to talk about, but the game is rigged and I can't even get to pay, even with my business, my job, for what's needed based on the cost of living, right?

2:03:08And it's super interesting because there has to be a systemic change or at least in small groups, if not the whole nation. I was speaking, this was probably about 20, 2009, 2010, was a group in London. And this was at the time when there was these London riots that were taking place. And it was for very much the same reason that there's a lot of civil unrest in the US right now, just this sense of unfairness that the system is rigged. And they were all fighting, they were looting the stores. And they're just like, this is what's going to happen with the singularity. When AI comes in and the super rich get even richer, we're going to have meltdown of society.

2:03:44And I said, well, it's kind of interesting because coming from Bali, where I was living at that time and in Bali There really is no poverty even though if you took the theory that if someone's under two dollars a day, then they're in poverty In Bali because everyone lives in banshars, which are groups of 100 families and they all look after each other No one goes wanting everyone gets to eat right if someone didn't have a job They'll look after no problem until they find a job In fact, the work job is basically the second job they have the first job as the village job And the village job is the fact they have festivals every week or second week, somewhat dances, summer singers, summer musicians.

2:04:22And everyone has a role to play, which is meaningful. And so, and then the fact that they might make some money, and that's part of it, that's not the biggest reason of why they're actually living this society. And when people from outside come in and you realize, wow, like I can't spend money in luxuries because no one's driving a Ferrari, no one's got a big house. Everyone's just loving the fact that they've got sunshine, they've got sea, they've got paradise. and if you've got extra time, because why are you gonna make all that extra money, the real key thing is what's your job gonna be? Not a job in terms of paid production, because that means you're always gonna be out of a job, but paid self -expression.

2:04:55Like, what is it that I want to do? I wanna work with my childhood school. I want to learn a musical instrument. I want to work in the fields. I wanna start a business. Like, whatever it is you want to do, you can do it, but it's because it's what's most meaningful for you, not because it's what you need to do to make money and then retire. And I think that that's a whole reshaping where we're seeing this in groups in the US, right? Where groups are getting together and saying, let's just rethink what we're even trying to achieve here. And I think that's an absolutely necessary part of abundance.

2:05:25Coming to terms with the fact that everything already is abundant, I'll share one extra piece on this. I think it's really important, which is there's a huge difference of pedaling in lack resources versus sharing abundant resources. So money, if I have a hundred bucks and I want to share 100 bucks with you. I'm left with 50 bucks, right? So that's a scarce resource. If I have an idea and I share an idea with you, it doesn't become half an idea, right? It grows in size. If I have a connection and I make that connection and I share it with you, Hey, Peter, go speak with this guy, right? That doesn't make me and I have half a connection, right?

2:05:57It's become a stronger connection both ways. Trust is grown, right? If I share responsibility, if I share power, all these things allow you to grow. And the people I see who are have a abundance mindset, they choose to share abundant resources, which means they're more the share than the more they grow, whereas those who have a zero -sum mindset, they won't share anything, because they think that anything they're sharing is gonna Make them have less, and then they're focusing at scarce resources versus focusing on bunners. Beautiful. Absolutely true. And I think about the friends of mine Who are in the closest with they are entering every conversation giving first.

2:06:36Yes, mm -hmm. Right? but they are sharing, they're supporting, what can I do for you? And they're coming with an abundance, an abundance mindset. The realization is exponential technology. I had a, I was tweeting and texting with Elon and talking about abundance, which is a concept he talks about and he loves. And I said, when am I gonna have abundance, he goes after AGI, right? So artificial general intelligence. And it's true, you know, the things we spend money on right now, the best physicians and the best teachers in the world will be AI, which is going to be effectively free, right? When you have an autonomous electric car, the cost of transportation is a quarter of what it is if you own a car.

2:07:23You know, the things that we want, I mean, the ultimate, and there's a book called Zero Marginal Society by Jeremy Rifkin that talks about where are we going eventually in a post -capitalist when I've got nanotechnology, right? And I can take a nanobot and make you one, and you can drop it in the soil and say, make me an electric Ferrari. And what does it need? It needs energy, and we're going to have a massive squanderable abundance of energy. It needs information design. Well, lots of open source design available. Information is becoming more and more free. It needs the raw materials. And you might pay for some raw materials, but it's in tens of dollars, not tens of millions of dollars.

2:08:06So this is a future coming our way. It's hard for people to see that. It's extremely hard. We forget how we are creating abundance in our lives that we then take for granted. The ability to turn on the faucet and get water versus go down to the creek for an hour to get water is buying you back an hour of time. The ability to, you know, it used to be if you wanted to do a research project, you'd go, you'd drive to the library, hope they had the book, then go find the book. Now you just Google and a few seconds later you have. So we're buying back time. We'll talk about a longevity mindset, which is for me, adding decades onto your life.

2:08:51And typically, you know, so I don't think there is anything truly scarce, right? time is the most precious of them, but there are ways to buy back that time or to make time or efficient because no matter who you are on the planet, the wealthiest person or the poorest person, we all only have 24 hours in a day. That's right. It's how you use your time that differentiates the wealthy and the less wealthy. So how do you get in abundance mindset? It's a tough one. It's a super tough one and a metaphor that I like to use because then people really get to see where they sit in this Spectrum is the metaphor of the candle right because because candle has two parts It has the wax and has the flame and and really a bundled mindset is realizing it costs a candle nothing to lighten up The candle right like it's nothing and it can just keep on growing But there's a zero sum part of the candle which is the wax right?

2:09:49So if you've only got this much wax and okay, can I share my candle with anyone else if you're in that wax Well, first of all, you can't see clearly, right? It could say this wax, but secondly, you're not going to want to give any of the wax to anyone else because you're going to end up with less. But if you realize that, as you say, the whole turning from material to immaterial, right, this whole idea that the whole point of the wax is to turn into flame. And this is why we talk about igniting your genius, right? That we've all got a genius inside that most of us aren't even aware of. We're taking for granted.

2:10:14But if we actually were to ignite it and for what reason to light others, right? And then you realize, that was the whole point of the candle in the first place. The abundance is in the ability to be able to pass on the light to others. The lack or the idea that I don't have enough is the idea that I need to hold onto the wax, even at the expense of turning off the candle, right? Turning off the light so that I can actually hold onto more wax and then of course you never get anywhere in life. There's a story which for me really brings us home to the heart, because I think abundance is all about the heart as well.

2:10:46And it's a story which came out in our library. We have a library at our resort in Bali and it's kind of one of these magic libraries where people come in, they donate their books and so I always finding new books in there. And there was one that someone would come from India and I only ever saw this book once and then someone must have taken it. But there was a chapter in the book which was a story of a range drop. And the way the story goes is that one day is raining and this range drop for the first time is a range drop. and it's kind of like falling out of the sky and it plops down onto a jetty going out to sea.

2:11:16And it's like, wow, this is cool. I'm a raindrop. This is amazing, right? And it's looking around all these other raindrops. And then as it looks around it sees that there are other drops that never get to be a raindrop because they go past a jetty right into the sea, right? So suddenly, it's like, this is terrible, right? Like, like, I may not be here forever, right? And so there's an aspect of this whole idea of abundance which also comes with the fear of mortality, right? It's like, I got to hold on to what I have because everything's transient. And so as it's like worried about this, it notices that the wind is picking up and there are drops which are blowing off the jetty into the sea and it's like, oh my god, if I don't hold on tight, I'm going to end up disappearing totally.

2:11:55And so it's now trying to hold on and trying to be small, which lots of us do. And as it's doing that, just trying to hold on, it notices that the sun's coming out and even the ones that are holding on are evaporating. So now it's like, oh my god, like now what do I do? I have to go to choose to actually jump and take the leap of faith or I've got to basically just stay here And I'm just gonna evaporate anyway And so then it's like now got a big choice. What do I do and it's thinking about and things well Like I know for sure. I'm gonna evaporate here But I don't actually know what happens if I go in the sea like I think I'm gonna disappear But maybe I'm still a drop.

2:12:25I don't know So it decides at the end is gonna take the courage to just just jump and go for it So list itself up the wind comes picks it up. It flies off. It braces itself. And in a moment it hits the sea it realizes it hasn't disappeared and in fact has become the whole ocean. And this, like pretty much every religion, every spiritual experience has got within this a sense of true abundance, that we're not a drop in the ocean with the whole ocean and the drop. Every leader I know, everyone who's ever shaped this world has come in with that level of energy. And it's that energy of always having more to give, right?

2:13:08Because there's always more, which then makes the universe work through, right? Because that is the key to all of this, is the consciousness of being aware that the mindset which allows us to be able to really have an impact on others is only when we expand ourselves to the size that they are as well. That's beautiful. You know, I think a mission for entrepreneurs, I define entrepreneurs, someone who finds a problem and solves it, right, ultimately. And so the more entrepreneurs, the more problems that are solved, I always think entrepreneurs are ultimately today, exponential entrepreneurs are about creating massive abundance in the world, right?

2:13:44If you look at the greatest entrepreneurs, whoever you might think of, Steve Jobs, when you have millions of dollars of free apps on your phone. It's a massive amount of abundance. And so the question is, where is there scarcity in your life? Where is there scarcity in your company, in your industry that you can turn into abundance? Someone is going to do it. And if you can, there is a massive opportunity. And it isn't about the idea of charging for that, but it's the business models that are wrapped around it. And so, you know, for me, I'm working a lot of my energy right now. Roger is in the healthcare space, you know, building fountain life and how do I constantly demonetize and democratize?

2:14:43Right? So it's super expensive to have all of your upload, 150 gigabytes of data and imaging and so forth. But my job is to leap ahead and figure out how do we eventually provide that to everybody for free? And what are the steps in the decadal decrease in price and increase in capability? And it's a challenge. It's going to take 10 years, but we're going to get there. And so I encourage entrepreneurs to be thinking about how do you take something that scares? You know, the typical consulting business is one where you put your arms and barricades around a group of individuals and you meter them out a little bit at a time.

2:15:25Yeah, right. Yeah, by the hour expensive, law firm, whatever the case might be. And of course, here comes AI that is going to disrupt that entire business. Right, it's going to become effectively the best legal advice, the best consulting advice is going to be your AI engine that you've built. So scarcity to abundance, it's really overcoming this core mindset that we have of fear and scarcity. And this, we're heading towards a world in a world of abundance. It's a world for me that's more peaceful, more loving, where every mother knows that her children have access to all the food, water, and J -Healthcare education that they need.

2:16:11And that's really a world that I want to help create. Absolutely. I think there's no better truth than the one that says, you know, a man, you get to see the true measure of man when they have everything or when they have nothing, right? And this whole aspect about what does abundance look like? Sometimes it's almost the opposite. There's this kind of thought exercise, which is very interesting one, which is what would happen given that we're all kind of like in this race of one form or another. Unless we somehow transcend it, what would happen if tomorrow we woke up and the entire monetary system of the world had collapsed and you couldn't use a dollar, you couldn't use a pound, you couldn't use anything.

2:16:51What would then happen, right? And it's super interesting because every time I've ever had that conversation with people, For some people there's actually a level of relief, right? It's like, okay, that's good. That's normal chasing But the second thing is no one thinks oh, we might as well just pack up bags and dive right? I said no, we'd figure it out right? We'd actually find ways that we had can trade value with each other we look after each other We'd bring everyone along the ride and we realized how much we're kind of in a game at the moment Which is the musical chairs game where they where we think they're gonna get taken away Where where what we would actually do if we actually were to be in a world where we were actually having to to figure it out from scratch, like first principles, we would think differently about what we do today, like let's imagine that, like tomorrow, that this would be the case, and you knew that someone had some fruits that people go pick up to eat, right?

2:17:40Someone's got a truck which basically could go pick up the fruit, okay, someone who's done really badly by people has got a truck and someone who's, like everyone might, so he's got a truck, who are you gonna go send for the fruit, right? It's the one that you trust more. Okay, well, if today there's things you can do to be more trusted tomorrow, What would you call this person? That's big with, and you realize the behaviors that we ourselves would have to be better human beings. If we actually were living in a world of abundance, where we're not having to chase each other for things, it would be a different world.

2:18:06And the people already living the abundance, exactly as you said, they're already thinking in that way. They're not waiting for it to happen, but they're creating it through constantly giving, but giving the things that are of highest value. And I'll just share one thing about effective giving, because I think this is where a lot of people get it wrong. It's like, I gave and it didn't come back. Well, it's like, I went to a baseball game in San Francisco and everyone behind the picture were all having a glove because they knew if the ball came back, they went throwing the back of the pitch, right?

2:18:38Like, they get the ball, that's it, it's out. So being very aware that if you're playing the game and you're on the pitch and there's other people playing, even your opposition, they're going to keep the ball in play, right? Because that's how you play the game. You hit it to someone off the pitch, someone outside the line of trust, right? You're never going to see the ball again, right? So it's really important to know there's a whole bunch more spectators than players in any game. And what's going on in the world today is very similar. There's a lot of people who will grab and not want to give back.

2:19:04But that's no reason not to play. That's no reason not to find out who is living this world of abundance and play with them, because they're there. And then you're going to be able to win the game together. You get to choose your community. Yes. Choose it wisely. Mindset number six, purpose -driven mindset. One of my favorites, I think one of yours as well. I speak about a massive transformative purpose. It's the thing that wakes you up in the morning, keeps you going through the day, keeps you going through the night. It's giving your energy to your life. It's at the end of your life looking back, did I live a purpose -driven life?

2:19:49And it's one of the things for me when I think about what I want from my kids most. It is one of the most important things. I want them to be good people, good men. I want them to live a life of purpose where they're self -driven to go and create and uplift humanity. How do you think about a purpose driven mindset? I find purpose driven super interesting because it's the whole basis of everything I've done in my life is what's the bigger purpose and the biggest benefit because when you're thinking about okay it's very clear I think to a lot of people that the opposite of abundance is lack but what is the opposite of a purpose driven mindset?

2:20:30I personally feel it's an anxiety driven mindset right like because if you don't have a purpose or something you're driving for then then everything's going to feel like it could be better or everything's going to feel like it's not quite right and anxiety comes from it is kind of like when should I start how should I start back is that if a gun goes for the 100 meter race, you're running, right? Like you're just going to, because you know why you're there and you're heading for it and you don't let, you don't let yourself get anxious about what could be or how, how, how, you don't sweat this more stuff, right?

2:20:59Because you've got something much, much bigger that you're focusing on and everything is just either an obstacle or a lesson. That's all right. So, so everything contextualized. You don't compare to other people because you think I'd like to be more than that because that's not your purpose, right? Your purpose is this. So without having that purpose, which is that really clear direction of why you're here, you're constantly gonna not just yourself, but your whole team is gonna get caught up in all the wrong stuff because you don't have that true North. So I think that has been the bit, now that isn't how I myself got that purpose from mindset and I got attracted to what you do and how you do because you have such a strong purpose from mindset and then you attract all those people also that have the same thing as well.

2:21:36But for me the kind of like the siren call that stopped me from doing what I was going to do, because I was studying to be an architect. I was at Cambridge University. I was thinking at that point, this is my life. I've got to get a profession. I'm going to go get a job. I wanted to build buildings. So I love designing. So I thought that's what I was going to do. But then I came across Buckminster Fuller. And I remember the first time I met you, I talked about this as well. He created the geodesic dome, so he is an architect, but he's also futurist. I didn't ever heard of his futurist before. And he was talking at that point about the final exam.

2:22:10And he was like saying, all the world's challenges can be solved with technology, because they're all distribution challenges. When we say we have poverty, it isn't that we don't have lots of money. We've got plenty of money. It's just not a bunch of people. Or plenty of food or plenty of energy. So technology can solve these problems. And he's saying, even in the 70s, there was already enough technology to solve all the problems, but we weren't solving them. In fact, a lot of them were getting worse. And he said that wasn't because of technology, that was because of human consciousness. It's our inability to work together to use this power.

2:22:37And he says, and this is not just an exam for humanity, it's the final exam because technology will keep on accelerating. And without using the word singularity, he was pretty much saying that will come a point where judgment day will happen. And at that point, we either have accelerated a conscious this enough to harness technology, and we'll know that because we would have solved the worst problems. But if we failed the exam, it's because we didn't raise our consciousness and technology would destroy us. Yes. And I remember that when I heard that I was like holy cow like I can't be building business building buildings that need to build consciousness right and businesses is one of the best ways today to do that but that shift and and me choosing that path was was spot by someone who's very purpose driven right like his whole life was about that purpose and and and I think all of us get impacted in some way where it becomes infectious if you decide on something that becomes your must Yeah, let's talk about why a purpose driven mindset is so important.

2:23:32I'm going to give a couple of examples first in this world of increasing abundance where I mean literally the amount of deals amount of opportunities the amount of amazing things the amount of you know mental candy available If you're not clear about your purpose your Your time your attention is split everywhere If you're clear about your purpose, you're then able to grab a piece of information and opportunity, an individual, and if it aligns with your purpose, work together. And if not, you can say it's amazing, but put it aside. So your purpose driven mindset allows you to properly select and focus in on the opportunities and challenges coming your way.

2:24:19really important because the number of opportunities and challenges is just skyrocketing. Without a purpose, you'll squander your attention, your time, your capabilities. So that's one important thing for me. The second major reason for a purpose driven mindset is my experience is I hire for purpose. You know, if I'm looking at two individuals and I can detect someone who's really driven by a purpose, I don't care where they went to school, I don't care what their experience is, if that's their mindset, their purpose, they're going to excel and exceed against everybody else. And so I can detect that.

2:25:05I love what Jeff Bezos says that there's two types of entrepreneurs, there are the missionaries and there's the mercenaries, right? And it's like, you know, missionaries are doing for the purpose, the mercenaries are doing it just for the money. And he says, I only ever support the missionaries, not only because working with purpose -driven people is far more inspiring, but they're actually the ones that end up becoming more successful anyway, because they're attracting others that are also more purpose -driven. Yeah. For sure. Other reasons for purpose -driven mindset in your mind? I'd like to go back to the thinking that I've been going through, because I love your mindset model so much.

2:25:42Having models, I say, where this business model is, where this role model just gives so much context to where you're going. I think one of the most important things is coming back to the idea of Pavlov's hierarchy of needs, where when we started talking about the first couple of mindsets, it was very much about, how do you just make sure the foundational things are happening? So you're not living in fear, living with no foundation, right, because you've got gratitude, etc. The next level up from that, which is actually saying, okay, now that I've actually got the kind of like, you know, physical things that I need, I need the safety, right?

2:26:11And that whole thing about knowing, okay, I didn't have to worry about if I lose my job because I'm curious. I'm always going to find a way to add value, right? And then after that, you then have the whole connection side, which is the third aspect up, and the whole key there around, okay, well, if you actually have moonshots, they're going to bring the right people in. If you've got, you know, exponential thinking, you're going to attract all the right people through with you and that leads to the recognition part or the self -esteem part. This final part is self -actualization, right? And this whole thing about purpose, where you realize, okay, well, you can get to a certain level of success outwardly, but inwardly is the real key at the end.

2:26:44Like passion can push you, but purpose will pull you, right? And at times when you look at people, what they're clicking out doing for the money, they've got plenty of money, right? But they keep on going. And that's when you want them to keep on going, that's going to have the greatest impact in the world, is because of the higher value of what it does to your own spirit by actually being driven by something greater that you can leave a legacy with. You know, doing anything big and bold in the world is hard. And unless you've got that emotional, why driving you, you're going to give up, I'm absolutely clear.

2:27:16I mean, I've always been a very purpose driven. My purpose driven mindset was around opening up space and around solving, you know, of grand challenges around supporting entrepreneurs and now around health span and longevity. There were a few times in my life where I went after what I considered the equivalent of a get rich quick scheme. As I got into it and I realized it isn't quick and it's hard and then I don't give a shit about it. And then I was like, okay, just drop that right here and right now. And often those, whatever those schemes are, what are those projects are, They'll attract the wrong people.

2:27:54And so as a result, they become serious. So even if you think you're gonna make the money, you end up losing it even faster, right? And this is... And your time is precious. So one of the things as well is when you're working on something that's purpose driven, and you love it, and it's calling to you, even at the end, if it doesn't succeed, you have learned so much, you've grown so much, you've fed your heart and your mind, and you've met amazing people on that same journey in life, So that it's been a win even if the business doesn't succeed in that regard. Really critically important. So I talk about a massive transformative purpose and I define it, my massive transformative purpose today is to inspire and guide entrepreneurs to create a hopeful, compelling, and abundant future for humanity.

2:28:44So when I teach at a Bunnins 360 to define your MTP, and I like to think about it as having someone you're serving, it comes very much back to Ikigai that you mentioned earlier. So who are you gonna serve for me? It's primarily serving entrepreneurs. How are you gonna serve them? What is it that calls to you that you're good at? I love inspiring and guiding them, right? So to work with the X Prize is around saying, you know, inspiring them. This is the end goal, guide them, you know, this is the direction to go. And then what is your end goal? What do you want to achieve? And for me, it's about, you know, creating a hopeful, abundant, um, and compelling future for humanity.

2:29:30So I define that I say that every day, one or twice a day, sometimes more than that in the shower and that clearly gives me the ability to select who I spend time with, what I spend time with. And so, I'm always saying note to it, right? What do you say note to? You know, Martín Rothblatt has an incredible quote that she shared. She said, the successful people in life say note almost everything. The most successful people in life say note it, everything, right? And it's like really hard. Yes. It's got to align with that MTP. Yeah. Absolutely. And you know, it's really interesting. If I even in mind, I wanted to just share this because we were talking about this.

2:30:12And we'll put this, like, if you don't know, Roger is an incredible artist and his notebook is a work of art. It's like you've heard of the Leonardo da Vinci's notebooks. There's a lot of Roger Hamilton's notebooks too. I will put this image in the show notes. Actually, I've got the abundance. We're not being at the abundance. This goes all the way back. Oh my god. I've got the ones from a decade ago. Oh my god. Oh, it's hilarious. In fact, this was this is the kind of making the notes we were talking about for genius you. Just hold it up to the camera for one second so people can see. This is just one of the human longevity ones that we did at abundance.

2:30:48Right. This was another one. This was a month of 360. I think 10 years ago when you talked about the 60s, right? So that was here as well. Wow. But I wanted to share this because I'm honored. Yeah. So you you made this win on the flight over. I was on the fight over in Austin. Can you There's something around how mindsets, if we link mindsets to consciousness, because it is about just shifting away from, it's actually the opposite of knowledge, right? Because as they say, I don't know if he knows the more he thinks he knows versus the amount of wisdom the more he knows the more, he knows how much he's on that.

2:31:23And there's an aspect to all of this, which is like we say, it's not what you're thinking about, it's what not to think about, right? And it's like this is the right, like, I'm going to delete those. Those were old habits, old beliefs compared to where we are now. What's super interesting, and I think a lot of people don't know this when they look at a rainbow, is the colors of the rainbow were actually defined by Isaac Newton, right? Before he wrote the principle here, he wrote a book called Optics. And of course, you look at a rainbow, it's got infinity numbers, not the colors in it, but he knew enough about kind of like the levels of consciousness from Egypt, from India, that he said, okay, I'm going to use basically the seven chakra colors as basically the seven colors in a rainbow.

2:31:58Now, what's really interesting is that like a lot of people don't realize this and I'm half Chinese my mom's side and I'm half Scottish So I always link the East and Prosthes with the West. Beautiful. But one thing super interesting that I think a lot of people don't realize when they're doing yoga or they're looking about Shakur energies is that we're talking about consciousness levels that they basically went and said there's a hierarchy to understand and consciousness Which links the Pavlov which links to basically the way we think and just to go through it very briefly so that we can see how this fits together But when we go to school, we're actually learning some of the lowest levels of consciousness.

2:32:29So we've created, and I've brought a book about this, called the Million Must Plan, that there's seven levels starting from red to violet. But below red is infrared and above violet is ultraviolet. So we've really got nine levels. And the very beginning bit, which is the victim mindset, which is basically like the one that's infrared is the one where it's like the whole world is happening to me and I have no power over anything right. And that's the mindset and a lot of people get that mindset. In fact, when we're kids, we're kind of taught that's what we need to be like. we're surviving to our parents.

2:32:56To move from that mindset to the next one, which is red level, which is survivor, having just enough to have nothing, right? Like a lot of people go for the whole life, even with big -paying jobs, where their self -worth is such that they'll just spend everything they've got and they'll basically just lose everything they've got and they'll always end up back in the same place. And a number of entrepreneurs I work with who are trying to grow big businesses, but they haven't solved their own issues yet, which are about their own mindset, about self -worth and about how money and resources are flowing through themselves.

2:33:23This is where basically, if they don't turn on gratitude mindset, they can never grow because they're always going to think they're not good enough, right? This is just a reality of it. And they're self -sabotage. That's right. And I see so many people self -sabotage themselves and they're like, holy cow, if I just got more grateful, I would actually keep more and attract more than what I'm doing right now. Yes. And it wouldn't be such a bind, right? The one above that, which is the orange level, which is the worker, is the one that goes, you know what, I can be positive, but not by just going out playing, I got to actually earn the right by being in a team and showing I can show up and like being in the football team without having to do one holding the ball the whole time And that worker mindset like my dad He got his self -worth when he was in the police force in Hong Kong by basically working hard like we'd get to a We get to weekend like and I'd come back from school and he'd be it'd be life.

2:34:13I'd such a good week He'd be sitting on the balcony with his beer and I go what happened that and he'd be like I just worked so hard Yeah, but what happened is like I just work so hard and someone at that level by the way if their self -worth is linked to hard work They'll hate the fact that the government is paying someone, you know social security for not working right? Yeah, so it's like that's not fair So and there was a look at the people above who I'm working so hard We've got there in business to go they must be cheating They didn't so so so this is orange level and the reason this is important is orange level basically is like you know You're going from root chakra You're going to and I put it all in here so you can look at the art love it you're going to say, and this is where basically someone who's like, if I don't have a growth mindset, gratitude mindset to growth, I can never go beyond that.

2:34:52So people who are working hard their whole life, who go, there's no way I can learn anything new to go start my in business or go do my thing. They'll listen to someone we're talking about here and go find for them to talk about, you know, moonshot mindset, but I'm just trying to get to the end of the month and get my pay. But when you go, oh, if I was curious, how does someone who's younger than me, who is not as hard working, who's not as lucky, who's not skilled and they're making 10 times more than me, how are they doing that, right? And there's always a way, right? And then going from those free, which we call the foundation prison because they're all about your own personal self -awareness on yourself, you then go to the next free, we call the enterprise prison, which is frankly the entire way that the 11 trillion dollars a day that changes hands or operate in the economic system.

2:35:33And that's the player who is the one who is one person doing more things, which we've all had experiences of in the startup, the green level, which is now hot. So will is like I will do things they'll have a big to do list. Right. So when you say something like look at the end successes, what you say no to, they don't have not to do list, right? They just got to do list. So it's like I'm going to do all these things and it's bearing down on me. Well, that changes if you have a moonshot mindset because once a moonshot mindset, other people are going to come and help you do that moonshot. Like that's the whole kind of like learned, learned competence side.

2:36:03And then above that green level which is hard now and these by the way all show up across any knowledge that you look at in terms of true wisdom. There's a great book by Stephen Covey. Most people have heard of the seven habits. Sure. The seven habits are all about having to go from yellow level, one person doing more things to green level, all people doing one thing. It's like how do I become part of an orchestra as now a performer, not a player. So a player goes worker player performer and going from yellow to green is where then you can now go exponential, right? Because you've got the abundance mindset.

2:36:34Other people are coming in to connect with you. You can go exponential because you have a team where you've earned the right to be at the level. Exactly. You're sharing, you're working, you're not hoarding. Exactly right. Exactly right. And after that book, Stephen Covey and his son, we've worked with a lot, we're so called Stephen Covey, and he wrote a book called The Speed of Trust, which is really the currency we're all reading on now. Yes, trust. And that, and he talked about the eighth discipline, which is your voice. And this is where the abundance side comes in, the leaders of tomorrow are the ones that are coming from abundance.

2:37:04But those three, if you do that right, then you master the enterprise prism where you can start a business, you can build trust, you can add value. But the final three, we call the Alchemy Prism, is where asking question, why is purpose driven so important? These final three are not the people in the audience watching, they're not like the spectators. They're not the players, the performers, all the conductors, the conductors are the ones that basically are at the blue level that don't have to pick up an instrument for they make all the music. Once you understand that and that's where investors sit, right?

2:37:36And investor, if they see you're not doing good job with CEO, they're not going to come in and basically trying to be the CEO, right? They're going to find another CEO just like, you know, a conductor who sees a violin is off key isn't going to come in and try and basically play the violin. They'll just get another violinist or a different violin. But the key thing above that is you then have the three that made the music possible. We have the trustee So we're seeing in the world today all these different people who can Move mountains just through their trust, right? Like Warren Buffett people pay millions just have lunch with him Richard Branson that people pay millions to use the version brand People now you have trust within the exponential community.

2:38:12Oh, if Peter's behind that we supporting that right then I want to be a part of that as well because people trust him and he and this is where the trust is so important. Trustee in a theatre is the one who actually allows the theatre to happen. And the problem is, too many of the trustees have been our politicians or people basically are saying, trust me and we don't trust them anymore. And this is why it's so important because if you're not purpose driven, you're never going to build the trust at that level. And then one above that, which is basically where we get to the third eye, this is basically now where we're getting to, where we're about to get to, with longevity, this is where you're going to the composer level.

2:38:46And composer is the one that makes the music. So when you We talk about something like poverty. Poverty is just a bad composition, right? Like I said, like in Bali, it's a different composition, so people don't feel poor. Whereas we are all living in music that's gone off key, and we're wondering why it sounds so bad when we're trying to play it, right? But that's what's happening right now today. And the notes just happen to be back notes, right? But it's the same thing. It's the fact that we basically are all trying to make music, which isn't in harmony. And everything we're talking about in mind sets allows us to re -homonize.

2:39:16And then the final one, Legend, is ultraviolet. that that's basically where a legend on a map is a symbol, right? When Steve Little leaves us, he leaves behind a symbol on the map, which is one about quality and technology, right? When Nelson Mandela leaves, he leaves a symbol, which means something quite different. And that's when this energy can really go way beyond ourselves in our lifetime as well. So I think one thing really important is that these mindsets are more important now than ever, but they're all linked to ancient truths. And they're all linked to basically the man's search for meaning and man searched for wisdom that goes back thousands of years, right?

2:39:51And so I wanted to share that because I think it's so important that people realize this is not just a nice thing to have, but it's like a must -have if someone wants to be raised in their consciousness. I love this so much. And I want to remind everybody listening, the mindset that you have was inherited someplace. Where did you get it? What mindset do you have? What mindset do you need? and how do you shift your mindset? These mindsets can be honed, they can be created, they can be amplified, they can be shaped. It's not overnight, it takes time. Our mission here is to give you the hints to start to think about this.

2:40:30It's a little bit every day. Our brains are neural nets just like Google's machine learning deep neural nets are, you know, and it's example after example if it's example it's living and breathing with the right people. It's reading things that amplify that mindset, that seeing examples over and over again. And it is really the most fundamental thing that we can learn. I criticize our educational system today. My son in fifth grade was like learning the state capitals. And I'm like, you don't need to know the state capitals. That's why God created Google. right? But understanding mindsets and how to hone them and which mindsets to choose is far, far, far more important.

2:41:20Even I think so many of us because when you're the boring frog, you don't even realize the damage that the wrong mindset is doing. I didn't realize this with the education system when at Green School, which was set up by John and Cynthia Hardy when they wanted to homeschool their kids, they basically thought, you know, there's no better place in Bali for like a beautiful place that you could be learning about changing the world right through the environment. So they created Green School. If you look it up online, you'll see the most beautiful like Cathedral of Bamboo for school. And to give you an example of just the shift of going from a scarcity or a dependency mindset to an abundance or resourceful mindset, that takes something like art, right?

2:42:03When we set up the art class there, we said, you know what, art actually already is teaching dependency, because why? When you start the art class, you start with the kids going, okay kids, here's some paper, here's some paints. Now let's paint something. Well, of course, they're gonna think they can't paint anything if they don't have the paper and the paints, which is like going out and I can't get money unless I have a job. As opposed to what happened at Green School where we said, okay, paper, let's talk about paper. Where can you make paper from? Or did you know that cows actually, you can use the cow dung to make paper?

2:42:33Let's go make it, right? Paints, okay, purple. Did you know you could make that from eggplant? Well, let's go make it. And so the kids started... All of a sudden, it's all a bunch of... It's a bunch of... And they don't start the art by basically just having equipment that someone paid for. They start the art by creating the equipment, creating the palette. Of course, that's what entrepreneurs do as well. And you think, my gosh, that's not taught at school at all, right? or even worse, like everything we've been talking about, which is get with the right people, copy from them. We know at school that's called cheating, right?

2:43:02So it's just understanding how much that we are all being coded, often by absolutely the right, the wrong values and wrong beliefs. And then we then wonder why it takes so long when we get out there to have to unlearn these things. Yeah, right. I'll close out our purpose -driven mindset with the realization that, again, I'll say this, doing anything big and bold in the world as an entrepreneur, taking a moonshot is going to take a decade. It's not easy. You need to have that emotional juice, where emotional beings. I think of your massive transformative purpose as a canvas, talking about art, and this is what I care about.

2:43:45This is what emotionally drives me, opening up space for reinventing education, or reinventing healthcare. care. And then a moonshot is a target on that canvas that I'm going to achieve A, B, and C by X, Y, and Z. This is what I'm going for. This is the shot I'm calling, right, without a target you'll miss it every time. But it's got to come back to that emotional and emotional driver that is fulfilling that gives you a purpose in life and that attracts amazing people to you. When you have a strong MTP and you're proud of sharing it, right? If you develop your massive transformative purpose and I have blogs on this and you can go to my moonshotplanner .com which is an AI engine that will help you develop your MTP and develop your moonshot for free.

2:44:39When you have your massive transformative purpose, If you're not sharing it with the world, then there's something wrong. Either you need to have something you're willing to share. And when you do share your MTP at cocktail parties on stage in what you write, and people know who you are, what you stand for, where you're focusing, it's the universe is then gonna bring those people to you, right? My friend Roger's gonna say, oh, you've gotta meet this person over here, right? or have you seen this business over here, it's incredibly powerful as a magnet to bring amazing opportunities and need me into your life.

2:45:19Yeah, it's, you know, I'm going for my own realizations as well, how easy it is as you go through the hero's journey, right? Where basically you go through the road of trials and things get thrown in your way, talking about like MTP and just constantly reminding yourself of it when I mentioned earlier about the fine exam and Bucky, right back then, long before I knew you and long before I'd heard about the concept of singularity, he was already talking about not just here's the problem, which is we're going to increase consciousness, but here's a solution, right? And he said the solution is that we need to play what he called the world game, right?

2:45:53And what is the world game? Well, in theory, it's something where everyone can have fun, everyone can basically make an impact together, but he died before he created it, and it was just earlier this year after we did our IPO on New York Stock Exchange last year and for the whole last year, all I've been doing is trying to basically battle with Wall Street traders and trying to solve all the challenges of having a public company as I've been managing to. I've been saying I've been suffering from PISS post IPO stress syndrome. But then as it was happening, it was like, oh my god, we could be 24 months, probably not more than 48 months away from the Singularity right now.

2:46:34Like we're only talking two to four years. And everything that I set up of my life to basically be able to hope, raise consciousness, and whatever small way I can with our group, like time's gonna be up. Like this is it now, right? This is where we're in the 99th level of the game. Absolutely right. So then it's like, holy, like now's the time. So I didn't get on this now. So we had a session last week where we launched a World Game. And this is our way of playing with all of our five million students around the world. and what will be 10 million fairly soon, and where basically everyone who's coming on board, we've got cities, we've got countries, we've got leaders in these cities and countries, we've got a goal of 100 million, in income and 100 million in impact to show that it's possible to do good and do well at the same time, and working together with Tony and his 100, and we're gonna be doing 100 million meals as impacts as part of this too.

2:47:22And I can tell you, the shift in two things, number one, my energy of actually going, okay, everything else is small stuff, right? because it is about like basically reminding yourself why you're here. And number two, the amount of attraction, like this next week, I've just got full of all these different meetings with different people who go, I'm gonna come play. Yes. And so I would definitely say this for everyone as well. Like you say, not just what mindset do you have, but what game are you playing? Like because it all comes in. Absolutely. What game are you playing? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Let's wrap up here with the game of longevity.

2:47:56So we are all on this planet born at an incredible time to be alive. And for me, I want to see as much of it as I can. And I'm out there building businesses, proselytizing and speaking about longevity mindset. And I define a longevity mindset as someone who understands that we're in the midst of a health care revolution, that we are going to be extending the healthy human lifespan by decades. Why? Because of AI, quantum technologies, biotechnology, capital flowing in. I remember when I was in medical school, I remember reading about, and then seeing a TV show on Long Live Sea Life that certain species of whales, Bohydra Wells could live 200 years, then Greenland Sharks could live 500 years and kind of babies at 200 years old.

2:48:57And I'm like, wow, if they can do that, why can't I? And I said, it's either a hardware problem or software problem. And this is the decade where we start to solve those problems. And the question is, if you believe that these breakthroughs are coming, this idea that Ray Kurzweil talks about longevity escape velocity, there's going to be a moment in time with it for every year, your life, science, extending your life for more than a year. If that's coming like Ray believes in 10 to 12 years or George Church or David's in Claire in the next 15 years, then if you believe that, then your mission should be, if you love life and you want to see more of it, should be to stay in the greatest health you can for the next 15 years to intercept those technologies coming our way.

2:49:50And for me, that's a longevity mindset. It's this level of belief that we can create longevity. We can extend the healthy human life span. You may have a different definition of longevity mindset. How do you define it? Well, I'll tell a story, first of all, which really impacted me when it comes to those who think about time on larger time scales, right? Because that is a large part of what this is. And I've seen this again and again, when you look, I remember seeing a quote, if you go to your apartheid museum in Johannesburg, there's a quote which is on the wall from Nelson Mandela, from I believe it's like the 1950s or maybe early 60s, where he says I will be the first South African black president.

2:50:35Right, like this is when apartheid was at its bifar worst that he actually had that vision to know that he had to do this because, and this would be before he got basically put in jail, especially all that, right? And he was just like, no, I'm in this for the long term, right? So there's something about that long term, we know this with Elon Way, he's talking about, you know, basically how little time we have in the, you know, tens of millions of years, right? And even like some of my master's son, when he talks about singularity and basically look, this is, you know, he's got a 300 -year plan.

2:51:02I was in Japan and so we heard from a mentor who was working quite a few of the wealthiest people when Japan there and he had this whole presentation where he says, look, you guys in the West are totally obsessed with size. How big you can get, how quick you can get there. Here in Japan, we think about something quite different, which is how long you can last. Sting, right. We've got thousand year companies here. He says, did you know that Japan is one of the few countries, if not the country in the world that has preserved this monument the most? Like, you go to most European cities and all the monuments are in stone and they're all basically eroding.

2:51:36You won't find them in Japan. why? Because we wanted our monuments to last the longest, so we built them from wood. Because if they're built from wood, we will keep replacing them in the pieces, and it will always be brand new, but it will still be there a thousand years in the future, right? So there's something about longevity and the way you think about, not do I get a thousand times bigger, but how do I last a thousand times longer? And he showed us actual slides of the number of Japanese companies that were a thousand -year -old companies as well. And we did exercise with our group to say, okay, guys, whatever your goals are in terms of how big you want to be, let's have a conversation about how long you want to last and how that changes your thinking about your business.

2:52:15And it was super interesting because people started by thinking about the business, but they ended up thinking about their family, right? They started thinking about next generation, the generation. What example are you leaving to those that might come 100 years in the future and see that we were here at this pivotal time and that we had an opportunity to do something and And did we do something? Did we do the right thing together at the right level of consciousness or not? And it became a very philosophical discussion later on. But to me, that's a huge part of longevity. And I'm interested for you to share how you, before you were very focused at the whole getting to space.

2:52:53And then how your MTP and your moonshots have evolved into longevity space and what were the key things that made you. Interesting. I grew up in the 60s and it was the Apollo program and Star Trek that really captured my attention. And I was enamored with going to space. And as I got to meet astronauts and learn about the government space program, I gave up on government as the means of getting there. And the idea of becoming a government astronaut where I might get a chance to fly, half the astronauts who are selected never fly. They're called penguins because they have wings but they don't fly.

2:53:27And then my vision of flying was I go up every weekend if I wanted to. That just was not going to happen that way. And I spent 30 years, I built the International Space University, zero gravity corporation, our first X Prize was for space flight, you know, space adventures that sent eight clients to the International Space Station. And it was great. And then I met Ray Kurzweil, and I realized that opening up space was going to really happen from the convergence of exponential technologies, right? We're seeing that with now Starship, material sciences and AI and manufacturing and computer simulation and so forth.

2:54:07And that's amazing. And so I needed to focus really on exponential tech on solving big world problems. X -Prize went from just a space X -Prize to grand challenges and Galaghe University came in. And then I realized that, wow, okay, this was about a decade ago in my early 50s, 51, 52, and space is moving slow, and tech is going fast. And I want to see the next 100 years. And it's like selfishly, there's a lot I want to do, a lot I want to see. And I don't, I, you know, rebel against the idea of an 80, 90, or 100 year lifespan. And I start remembering, oh, BoHeadwells can live 200 years and Greenland sharks live 500 years.

2:54:58why can't we? And then all of a sudden, we start to see these technologies coming into existence, again, AI, quantum technologies, biotech, and so forth. And it's like, huh, here's the tools. And we actually may have the ability to extend the healthy human lifespan. And I don't need to extend my healthy human lifespan by 50 years or 30 years. I happen to add an extra 10. And then and then intercept all the breakthroughs during that 10 that add 20 and then intercept the next ones that add additional. And so it's out of a love of life and a massive curiosity and wanting more time to see my moon shots build.

2:55:46And that's been driving this. I also think health isn't you wealth and I think there's no greater gift you can give anybody. right? So where I invest my personal funds, my venture funds are in health tech, biotech, and in AI, I think, the two biggest wealth creation engines out there. And I think ultimately, we're going to see the six Ds hitting this health. I think we're going to completely demonetize and democratize and it's not going to be just for the wealthy, it's going to be for everybody. And it's going to transform society. I think a world in which you care about the world more because you're going to be around longer is one that I want to help create.

2:56:38It's super interesting because biology comes after chemistry, like when we digitize physics, like starting with basically like, you know, chemistry and biology. And the fact that the core of our biology is the most digital machine which is DNA, right? So the fact that we are going down this route where as we digitize this everything becomes personalized, everything becomes something which becomes predictive. And what's super interesting as an extra payoff? Because I think the thing about these mindsets is each of them comes with a payoff. So I'm 55 years old right now. I recently met up with one of my school friends from school, right, like way back when I was like, you know, nine years old.

2:57:25He's retired and I meant to see him and we went for a walk and I swear he could be like double my age in terms of his physique and everything and it's like he's like just giving up on life, right? That's where he's at and I'm like, wow. And you think at the turn of the century, like 1900, 100 the average 40 age with 40 years old right so like 55 years old now I wouldn't even be here 100 years ago But then at the same time I go out see Richard Branson Neckar Island He's wind surfing at like you know 70 plus and I'm like But this is all basically about where you're pulling your energy from right and there's something about longevity itself And this whole idea that I at 55 and like well, I may be getting halfway there because I intend to live a long time But the biggest thing that I feel keeps me feeling young is the fact that I'm drawing my energy from, I believe, a different source, right?

2:58:15I feel there's three different sources, and again, this is more metaphor, but the three sources that we tend to generate energy from, if we're at the bottom prism that we talked about in consciousness, the only energy you can get is pretty much like elected power, right? Meaning you're gonna wind up the radio to hear the radio. And the problem with that power, and we call that motivation, right? So if I can motivate myself every day, well, the problem is if you forget to motivate yourself, then you've got no motivation, you've got no energy. And people at that level, especially if you're full of toxic foods, especially if you're full of toxic and you're in shifts environments.

2:58:44Like it's just, we so difficult even get through each day. And you see people age him way too early because they're trying to tap into that power. If you take some of these mindsets we talked about, and you're here for a bigger reason with a bigger group, at some point you go from elected power to connected power. That's when you like, oh, I don't need to write another radio. I can plug it in, right? And this connected power usually comes with community. It comes with our people. Where you just know, when you show up, Knowing how it's going to come and have podcasts with you, I knew it's going to be more energized at the end of the podcast That even will be stopped because it's energizing at this different level and and of course that's great But if you disconnect then it also goes down right?

2:59:20This is why some people are unhappy with their spouse or their partner because they had such a great energy And then when they left then they're like, oh now down here and and when you realize that when you leave this planet That's also a disconnection right then it's like well, well then what right like there are people that some who are watching this podcast have had more of an impact on them, even though they lived thousands of years ago, and they never met versus their next door neighbor who might have died five years ago, and they've forgotten already, right? And so it's like, what is that lasting power?

2:59:48And above connected power, there's another one which is reflected power, right? That's like solar power, right? That's like as long as there's some shines, right? You don't even need to plug in. That's what you run on, right? That's what we see the top. And so the purpose -driven energy, right? There's a Greek, there's a love the word enthusiasm, which comes from the Greek word, for enthios, which is in God, right? Where you're, there's this energy source, you're enthusiastic, but you're not just enjoying something. There's a level of enthusiasm. You love what you're doing. Like, I was, I've been so excited about this conversation with you today because there are very few people I play pitching catch with in these mindsets.

3:00:25And I think it's one of the most important things. I want to get to the top of the mountain and shout to everybody. Listen, your mindset, it matters choose it, develop it, hang out with the right people, what's on your walls, what are you reading, what are you watching, you know, mindsets matter, please. It is one of the greatest things that you've got. And the payoffs, you can't really explain it until you get to it and then you give it a sh - And then it's like, oh, now I've got this energy. I'll give you an example, right? The numbers are pretty extraordinary that purpose individuals who are purpose driven and who are optimistic have, you know, So a significantly longer lifespan, right?

3:01:02And it's measurable. I've written about it. I think it's a 17 % increase in lifespan if you're defined as an optimistic individual. And at the end of the day, who do you want to hang out with? People who are optimistic and purpose driven or people who are depressed and trying to just make their way through the day? A huge amount, like longevity of your phone has everything to do with basically how many apps are sapping the battery and basically the level to which you're able to charge it as you go. And we're exactly the same. We're like energetic beings where it's not simply about what you eat or what you don't know about your body or putting yourself at risk by just not understanding that there are tools out there that allow you to get predictive on what might happen to you.

3:01:50but also toxic relationships like we said, toxic media, like all of these things are affecting your energy and that means also affecting your longevity, right? So when you realize, wow, like getting surrounded by the right energy, getting in with the right purpose isn't just good for the world, is good for my own lifetime and who I become and having an interest in longevity mindset totally changes the outlook you have and it stops you sweating the small stuff happening today because it's nothing like, like what was the small stuff that you're worrying about in 2003. Most people can't remember what that was, right?

3:02:22Because that wasn't as important anymore. And so why worry about it today? There's this story I'd like to share. I know I shared it with you when we were last speaking, but those listen podcasts is the biggest piece on longevity. I believe when I heard myself, and this was, again, on my trip to Japan, and it was when we were doing a tea ceremony where everything is just so deliberate and like just for the reason that there is this concept in Japan of every moment being precious for itself, right? So like we're only like here having this podcast at this moment with people listening, this one moment.

3:02:58And while it's recorded, the actual experience itself basically is one moment in time, right? And we were like, wow, this is incredible seeing this sense of presence by thinking about time. And so we were in this big garden, which was actually a museum for banh entries. And we went outside and heard that these were worth millions of dollars because someone was a thousand years old. And we saw this old man and he was in there kind of like actually tying the tree. And so we went up to speak to him, say, here you're the gardener here. And he goes, no, I'm the owner. We get the owner of this whole place.

3:03:30He goes, yeah. And he goes, well, how much is all this worth? And he goes, I don't know, 100 million. And we're like, where did you get the money for that? And he goes, or you made as money in diamond noodles. So this company now we had this thing. So we're like, well, why are you doing this instead of having Godness do it? And he pointed to this tree he had there, and he said, look, this tree is over a thousand years old. Now, I don't know what your ancestors were like a thousand years ago, but I know I had great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandparents. Like we're talking about over 12 to 15 different generations.

3:03:58And every generation looked after this tree. And every generation relied their whole life on the next generation to keep up their work. And here I am after 12 generations, how can I not look after the tree, right? I let all of them down, all of my ancestors, and we're like, wow, and he goes, but that's not all. After me, this tree will last for another thousand years. And so that means that my children, and my children's children, or whoever is a generation who decides to look after the tree, if I don't look after the tree now, then they can't look after the tree. So this is an obligation that I have in my lifetime time to carry on this chain.

3:04:35And this is why I do this every day because I must. And that really impacted me when I'm like, well, I'm also here not just for my life. I'm here and the people I meet every day. I'm here for all those that made it possible for me to be here and for all the people afterwards as well. And longevity that changes everything. It ties together the purpose driven mindset, a gratitude mindset, you know, a moonshot mindset and these are all intertwined. That's a beautiful story. Roger, this has been an epic conversation and we could probably keep going forever. Talk to me about GeniusU, where do people find you tell them what they can learn on GeniusU?

3:05:18Who have you built GeniusU for? Great. It's called Genius because there's this great saying, everyone's born a Genius, but you for your judge of fish by disability to climb a tree, it will go for its whole life believing it's super great. So it's pretty much basically a whole new way of thinking about education lifelong from, like we've got pre -schoolers with their parents learning how to think about discovery through their primary high school, through their university. We have a university just outside Los Angeles here, all the way through basically to entrepreneurs, investors, learning exactly these things, like how do you shift mindset?

3:05:53And more importantly, how do you do it in a way that's right for you? So when someone comes on, the first thing that they do is they take our genius test. You find out am I more about dynamo genius like you and me where we're great at starting things, not so great at finishing it, so we better get the team. Right? Are we better at like some people are more like you know, tempo genius and we won't go through all of them right here, but but we all have got natural geniuses that work for us. And what is happening now, very different from what was happening a couple years ago, is the next step is you meet your genius AI.

3:06:19So we've actually worked in with GPT -4 to each individual. So if I go to GPT -4 and I go, do you know who I am? It says, I'm an LLM, I don't know. But like with our genius, yeah, you've brought your Hamilton. And so the whole way that it actually allows me to then say, well, I'm going to, I actually have some question. I'm going to be on this podcast with Peter. What kind of things should we talk about? And it knows who you are, it knows who I am. It knows what we're trying to achieve. It then basically says, based on your passions and purpose, here's some thoughts. So the whole idea is exactly as we say, there should be someone looking after and guiding you, that's your personal Aristotle, right?

3:06:51And that is true. Yes, I love that. And then from there, it then goes through basically choosing what path you want to follow, you want to be an entrepreneur investor, and then what community you go into. And we've got this clear philosophy, which is exactly what we're talking about, learning through doing, connect, learn, earn, act, review, and instead of student debt, we have student credits. You get you earn credits every single time you do a step. And then you can redeem those credits on the actual platform as well. So we've gamified the idea of education. And right now there are teachers, because they used to say teachers didn't get paid what they should be getting paid.

3:07:24There are teachers making millions of dollars, but you'll find them on YouTube or you'll find them as best -selling authors. They don't necessarily have got programs that are endorsed by the Department of Education. But our goal is to basically take what is the peripheral side, which is entrepreneur education, which is basically unlearning what we learn at school to learn again, and bring it into the full education system so that you can get your high school diploma or your degree program funded off the back of it as well. And that's really the ambition. Is it possible that 100 years from now when we saw that there was a need for a new education system, we could have been a part of the solution.

3:07:57And that's what I'm amazing. So where do people go to learn more? Very simple, geniusu .com. So genius and then you just the letter u .com and then they can just start the journey straight away. Amazing. How do I say this, dude? I'm grateful. Thank you for a beautiful conversation. I truly hope people took a lot of way from this. Please, as you're reflecting on the conversation that Roger Hamilton and I just had, ask yourself, what mindset do you have? And what mindset do you desire to have to navigate the decade ahead? Hang out with people who support those mindsets, read the books, the podcasts that support those mindsets, take the time to train on those mindsets.

3:08:43It's like going to the gym a little bit every day, a little bit of meditation, gratitude, curiosity, you know, moonshots, abundance, exponential, purpose -driven longevity. It makes life a lot more fun, doesn't it? It does, and I'll say this as well, Peter, like, and for everyone who's listened to this, This is a moment in time, like we said, but it's been a decade where, at the time, when I first met you, yes, I was in Bali, yes, it'd been some levels of success and things I'd done. But the way you opened up my thinking to a much, much bigger game, which does, like, mean, okay, I'm going to give up some comforts because I'm going to have to basically put myself in the line and grow something much bigger.

3:09:26But that's the hero's journey, right? That's the part where it's like, are you up for the call? And so much of what you were sharing back then, you know, what I'm doing now and everything that I'm part of is kind of like living proof that once you follow and apply the things you talk about, they really do end up being something that can change not just the world, but also change yourself. Like there's a huge difference between someone showing up every day saying this is my work versus this is my life's work, right? And I think that's a huge part. Amazing, amazing difference. And thank you for being a member of the abundance 360 community, because you shine a light and people get inspired by you.

3:10:04Anyway. Thank you, Peter. Thank you, buddy. Plus, that's great for me.