Returning to the Office Won’t Work in the Age of AI - Jack Hidary & Nadia Harhen | EP #135

26:09And the final C is community, community and connection. So maybe it's two X -Racies, but we'll put them in one. But community and connection, what is that about? That's about work where you thrive. It's about what is your support structure, Peter? You know, very often a company says, as we're here to support you, and they might have great benefits and so and so forth. But the fact is supporting someone means that you wanna recognize and respect where they are gonna work best, where they're gonna live best, where they're gonna thrive as people, where they're gonna realize their potential. In example, they may have a local university that they love that they wanna take more courses at.

26:50They may have a set of family and friends around them that can support them. And let's say they want to have kids. You know, if you're having kids, you don't have a support structure around you, God bless. Okay, that's gonna be difficult. That's gonna be difficult. So to have your employee, it's more fulfilled employee because you can't support all the stresses at the same time. And if you've got, you know, if you're able to have your home life and your emotional and social life thriving, it gives you more capacity to give to your company. And let me say, you know, a number of things that people have said before is that we think of company as a community.

27:30Sometimes people say it's a family. I think that's not the right term. Families are different. You have your crazy uncle who comes for Thanksgiving all the time. You can't un -invite them, unfortunately. But workplaces more like a community. We respect each other. We treat people like adults. We are outcome -based. We set forth clear goals. And by the way, where do those goals come from? They don't come from on high from Mount Olympus, okay? They come from the conversations and the offsites themselves. It bubbles up, Nadja has been running a great process with her team. What is going to be our outcome goals for 2025?

28:06Once a year, Peter, once a year we gather the whole company. We're still small enough, we can do that, and we choose a university city. Last year we did it in Palo Alto at Stanford. This past year, right now, this past few months, we just did it at Cambridge Mass at Harvard MIT. We're choosing some new cities now, so if you're in South Africa, how frequently do you have these meetups? Go ahead and not do. We want to talk about that in your team. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we have our company White Offset, as Jack mentioned, once a year. Just because we're getting so large, we used to have them twice a year when we were only, you know, three people.

28:45then we became 50 people. But now we just do that once here. Our team itself, so we meet, and our team is becoming so large at AI simulation. We meet once here as well, but what the subteams do, so our engineering and product and UX team will meet together. In fact, they just had an offsite out in Vancouver. Our drug discovery team will meet together. That's about a group of 20. And so we have these little pods. And so there's always touch points going on and depending on what work is being accomplished, we have different cross -functional teams that also are invited to those meetings. And so there's not a lot of time that actually passes when you're not interacting in person with your colleagues.

29:26It may seem as though, well, you're always at home, but you're really not. You're with a customer meeting and understanding their pain or you're with your colleagues solving for that or you're with your family. And so people are just able to be a lot more well -rounded and taken care of and accommodated in this sort of setting. Everybody, I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that's very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love. Companies called Fountain Life. It's a company I started years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented physicians.

30:00You know, most of us don't actually know what's going on inside our body. We're all optimists. Until that day where you have a pain in your side, you go to the physician and they Berncy Room and they say, listen, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have this stage three or four going on. And you know, it didn't start that morning. It probably was a problem that's been going on for some time, but because we never look, we don't find out. So what we built at Fountain Life was the world's most advanced diagnostic centers. We have four across the US today and we're building 20 around the world. These centers give you a full body MRI, a brain, a brain vasculature, an AI -nabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque, dexascan, a grail blood cancer test, a full executive blood workup.

30:49It's the most advanced workup you'll ever receive. 150 gigabytes of data that then go to our AI's and our physicians to find any disease at the very beginning when it's solvable. You're going to find out eventually. Myz will find out when you can take action. Found life also has an entire side of therapeutics. We look around the world for the most advanced therapeutics that can add 10, 20 healthy years to your life. And we provide them to you at our centers. So if this is of interest to you, please go and check it out. Go to foundlife .com, backslashpeter. When Tony and I wrote our New York Times bestseller Life Force, we had 30 ,000 people reached out to us for Fountain Life memberships.

31:36If you go to FountainLife .com, Backslash Peter will put you to the top of the list. It really is something that is, for me, one of the most important things I offer my entire family, the CEOs of my companies, my friends, it's a chance to really add decades onto our healthy life spans. Go to FountainLife .com, Backslash Peter. It's one of the most important things I can offer to you as one of my listeners. All right, let's go back to our episode. Peter, if I can talk about another innovation, which is that, of course, what is the role of the senior executive in this new 3C structure in the third way?

32:12What is the senior executive supposed to sit in some ivory tower in Mount Olympus and send out commands? No. That is a prescription for failure. The senior executives, we believe in service leadership, and that's something that's embedded inside the third way, which is flipping the whole pyramid. It says that as a senior leader, my job is to ask Naja, Naja, what do you need to succeed? For greed on outcomes? For greed on outcomes for 2025, let's say, Naja, what are the resources you need? And along the way, how do we adjust and make sure you have those resources? Resource doesn't have to be just money and budget.

32:47It could also be Naja telling me, hey Jack, I really need your help opening the door to that partner. I need your help opening the door to that particular customer. I need advice on how to work in the university. to help her succeed. That's right. That's my job. That means that the senior leadership, we've got to be on the move. Yes. And then the next job is to help her team succeed. And that's my job. Yeah, and the same way. Agreed. And I love that. It is a service mindset from leadership. And I've seen so many companies absolutely fail when the CEO's got this massive plus real estate office and it's like, you know, come and pray at the temple of.

33:26Yeah, I don't have an office peter on purpose because my office is typically traveling and recently I just flew to New York in order to be with one of the team off sites. It was really exciting. Time they're dealing with a number of different ideas about what's their next roadmap. They're not sure whether to put this feature first or that feature. They're having a lot of very good discussions. Not my job to decide by the way. I did not apply on that particular point. I was there just again to support and understand how could I be helpful to that team. And then a few weeks ago, I flew to a different off site to pop in there and see how it could be helpful there.

34:04And so as senior leaders, what I tell my senior leaders when I bring them aboard, you got to sign up for this. This is something that is not typical. You're not going to be showing up at an office and clocking in and once in a while. As a senior leader, we have a bigger burden. Yeah. Do you make an investment in the employees' home office? Absolutely. So we make a lot of investments when people are onboarded. The first thing we do is make sure they're set up well in a home office. I can ask Nadia to talk more about that. I want to talk about something else though. There's also skill sets that we invest in.

34:37I'll give you an example. Every single person that gets onboarded into our company gets media and presentation training to give speeches, to give talks. Why is that? Here's another part of the third way, Peter. In the old way, in the big companies of the world today, you are not allowed to just go and give a talk on behalf of the company if you're not the CEO or one of the senior leaders. You've got to go get permission, fill out three forms. I've been involved in several large companies in my career and it would take months sometimes for me to get permission to go give a talk. And Peter, I've had some experience giving talks as you know from your conferences.

35:14And you do a beautiful job of it. And thank you. And so it was a frustrating experience because I wanted to represent the company. I wanted to let people know about the incredible things that company was doing. We flipped that script again. What we do is we say to everyone the default position is yes, go give that talk. Don't ask permission, don't fill out forms, go give that talk. By the way, we're treating like an adult. Here's a folder on our drive that has all the materials that you can use in your talks And sure enough, we've had hundreds of talks given by our folks over the past two, three years.

35:50That is some stark contrast to a number of, let's call it the trillion dollar companies out there today. I won't name names where, you know, I'm speaking to a division president or a senior VP or whatever and it's like come and speak at this event. I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to. It's kind of insane. I'm sure people, you get this when you ask people to come to your podcast. I can't be like, oh, I have to go get permission, right, to come on your putt. And why people doing that? We consider everyone in our company, our advisors, our full -time employees, ambassadors. In fact, not just the people, we also have this residency program, and I'll ask Knight to talk about that.

36:29And we consider them ambassadors. Maybe Nadja, you wanna talk about that a little bit in terms of how we empower people to go out and speak on behalf of the company, and also the residency program. And let me just frame this one second before you jump into that for everybody listening. If you're an entrepreneur, if you are a senior executive and employee to company, the whole conversation here is to show you a third option, a new way. And especially if you're a founder, CEO, here, the value of becoming an exponential organization. And Sleeman, I wrote about this in exponential organizations 2 .0.

37:11And talking about the speed of change is not, there's an impedance mismatch with the old ways of doing things, the old ways of working from the office. And if you really want to create a truly exponential organization, it is this geographic arbitrage getting access to employees around the world. that's setting up the infrastructure to enable that agility, which is probably the single most important asset you can have. Highly over structured organizations will fail as there is rapid iteration and change in how we do things. And just that's the frame I really want to bring this for folks to listen to.

37:52Nadia, please, over to you. Yeah, one of the really incredible things about sandbox and it's part of our core values is that we have this incredible learning culture, which is I think fits into that community and connection. See, and as part of that, we believe in continuous education. We love to hire the folks that are tinkering and are experimenting with AI or at the edge of things. And so we often find ourselves you know, like having our off -sites at these universities, recruiting from these universities. We have programs because we're at the edge of technology. We actually have to train the next set of folks that might want to come work for us because these skill sets don't naturally exist.

38:37They're not learning this stuff. And so we have an entire education team that works on creating course work and various degree programming at NYU as an example of this. And so this learning culture and creating a community around it It is really deeply rooted in who we are. I appreciate that. Jack, first of all, I hope you'll write this up as a third way and get this out. Let me dive into a slightly different direction here, which is Jamie Diamond recently said, the next generation of employees will work for three and a half days a week and live to 100 years old. I agree with the 100 years old part and more.

39:20At least 100 years. At least 100 years. Yes, exactly. But hey, don't get me a star out there. I'll take you on, buddy. But the three and a half days of work, if you love what you're doing, I don't know. I play seven days a week in what I do. And it's always a balance between a home and work and everything. But as I was on stage with Tony at one of the abundance of Tony Robbins, and the abundance of it's recently, we talked about, it's not life -work balance, about life work integration. And I think that is really what you're talking about. How do you integrate this in a way that's meaningful? What do you think about these predictions of Microsoft Japan tested a four -day work week and productivity jumped 40%, Jamie Dimon's comment about three and a half day work weeks?

40:12What's your thought about that? Here's my prediction, Peter. I think that the best organizations, the exponential organizations, the organizations that have breakthrough to breakthrough Be it in our tech sector or be it in other sectors will be organizations that treat people like adults that are outcome -based When you're outcome -based, you know what falls away? Nursery school games like how many hours should I be working today? How many days and which days and so on and so forth? We really consider this very very old language. That's a signal when someone kind of is talking about that at a company I'm like, okay, I get where you're coming from you're getting from you're coming from the old idea of periods and schools and reading bells and bells and factories and you know why do we have periods and bells ringing in schools right we know that we know because it came from the industrial age from the factory and so and so forth.

41:04Is this really where we want to go as humans? Is this unleashing the human potential? I don't think so. So sure there may be some roles and jobs but I think those are going to change also. Maybe we can jump and leapfrog also Peter now into talking about human -nord robots because when people say, okay, Jack, that's all well and fine for the kind of skilled work that you all are doing with physics and chemistry and breakthroughs in new medicines for Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. But how about these distribution centers and warehouses? How about light assembly? What are we going to do there in terms of hours and so on and so forth?

41:40What I would say is hold onto your seat, Peter, because big change is coming. people are underestimating, underestimating the impact of humanoid robots. It's moving very, very quickly. Amazon has got a pilot right now with three or four of the robot companies. We'll see announcements. I'm sure I have no information from Amazon, but I'm sure we're going to see announcements in the next 18 months from Amazon. I actually know a lot about that. I just wrote a report called the Mediterranean Report. And folks can get it Mediterranean Report .com. which is I looked at probably about 40 of the human art robot companies and reported in more detail on 16 of them and the predictions right there are billions of dollars flowing in obviously Optimus 2 and Optimus 3 from Tesla.

42:29We've got figure AI with figure 2 and figure 3 coming online right now We've got Apollo We've got digit from agility these are robots that are working in industry today. The numbers folks should realize are the following, right, these are two arms, two legs, 10 digit robots able to do most all things they're enabled by multimodal AI, meaning they can see and understand what they're seeing, they can have a conversation with you, understand what you're asking for, communicate back. And the price points, these level of complexity, you can get to a price of typically dollars per kilogram of weight for a system of that complexity.

43:14And both Elon and the CEO, Brett Atcock, of Figure AI predicts at $30K for a robot that you could buy it at, translation that's leasing it for $300 a month, which is $10 a day, $40 an hour. What's it like if you have a minimum wage job at 20 bucks an hour and you're competing against a robot working 24 -7, no drug testing, no problems with their boyfriend or girlfriend? I think we're going to start to see a lot of those jobs, you know, sort of transformed into some other job. Yeah, look, I do think that we have to get ahead of this. Amazon has put together a billion dollar fund to get ahead of this proactively and say, this is a retraining fund.

44:05They're going to start training the hundreds of thousands of people. I'll let them speak for themselves, but just as an observer, I'm impressed by the fact that they're taking a proactive stance. I'm sure Walmart will be doing that pretty soon. Walmart's got 2 .5 million people in that company of which 2 million are folks working in the warehouses and distribution centers. and we know where that's going. When we look at Zara and other companies who do fast fashion and have factories in just five spots on Earth, what's gonna happen is you're gonna start seeing basically new factories pop up in all kinds of places that didn't pencil out before, but now pencil out with human or robots and guess what, those plants, those factories would be very near the main street where they're gonna sell those goods, taking fast fashion from 10 weeks now, down to maybe five days, right?

44:55That's going to be much faster fashion. I know people are very excited about that. I believe that. So both of you guys, I mean sandbox, AQ, ASTANCE for AI, QSTANCE for Quantum, just for folks, to realize that deeply embedded in the AI world. So let's talk about AI employees. So there's predictions of I'm going to be having conversations and working with individuals who are fully AI agents, and I'm going to communicate with them. I'll be on Slack with them. I'll be on Zoom's with them. And they interact with me as if they are employees, but they're actually AI's. How far are we from that? And how do you think about integration into your workforce?

45:39It's happening already. First of all, let's look at coding. Coding essentially is the parrot on your shoulder, the copilot. that we and others are already seeing, say, a 10 % increase in productivity. Microsoft is reporting greater percentage productivities across some of the customers who've really adopted it. I think that's gonna happen. I think I would expect a benchmark of 25 % increase in productivity in coding using a AI as your co -pilot. So essentially that's an AI agent that you're interacting with and is helping you create the code but also most importantly, debug the code. That's often what takes the longest in the coding process and also think about interactions.

46:21As you know, recently there was a massive outage of more than 8 million computers because of the CrowdStrike update. That's something where an AI agent, a little more sparse in the system, could have looked at that interaction of that update and those systems and realized, hey, I think we better not press this button on this update, on a Friday and destroy the entire planet. And so AI agents, I think, will help us in that way. And so on the coding side, absolutely. I think there'll be a lot of AI agents also that will be really good at brainstorming with us. I think it's really good as a socratic dialogue to have an interaction with an AI agent as your brainstorming a new feature, as your brainstorming a strategy.

47:06Again, it's not that the AI necessarily comes up with a strategy. That's not really the expectation, but I do think it's really cool to have that dialogue, have somebody really push you who's not a human. You know, the study's shown now, Peter, that people are more willing to open up to a robotic therapist, to an AI therapist than a human therapist. I mean, feel less judged. Yes. And also, they're not rushed. You know, it was interesting. There was a one of the American Journal of Medicine published a paper on empathy. And the AI agents were judged to be like, you know, I don't say it was maybe 4x, maybe it was an order magnitude, more empathic.

47:48So, that reason, you don't feel judged by an AI. And the AI doesn't say, I'm sorry, I've got another patient waiting for me, it just gives you as much time as you want. That's extraordinary. I used to think that empathy was the last bastion of human uniqueness, but perhaps not. Yeah. And then I think, you know, another way of looking at this is, as you know, Peter, the kind of AI that's being talked about right now, that's the obsession in the shiny object right now is large language models. And certainly it's going to have a big role just like we said. It's going to have a role in talking to us in a dialogue in helping us code.

48:21That's all the large language models. But we are pioneering and others now joining us in pioneering quantitative models. And maybe Nadia can talk about the interaction. How do you see these two coming together, the quantitative side that's so important and the language side. The language side, of course, trained on social media comments, Reddit, cat pictures, great for some things, but not necessarily right to create a new drug or those kind of innovation. So, AI agents who are quantitative AI agents, Naga, maybe you can help us there. Yeah, please tell us about what is an LQM. And LQM. So the way I think about LQMs is, which is large quantitative models, right?

49:02Well large quantitative models, that's right. It's physics -based, it's first principles -based. And so you are calculating from the ground up, from first principles, the way atoms and electrons and molecular properties behave in the presence of other atoms next to them. It's simulating matter effectively from the ground up and using that data then to train ML models on. And that is what we do at Sandbox EQ. So we don't start with a corpus of information. And the key thing there is that it allows us to move into new spaces where data does not exist. Right. So LLMs really rely on existing data.

49:42And it's wonderful. We have a ton of data. And that is going to be a highly impactful space. And we've seen it already. But it will have its limitations. And that's where we really see the possibility of LQMs impacting new types of materials and batteries and chemistry and creating new types of, you know, drugs and various things that just can't possibly exist today. Help us extrapolate way beyond what we know in the material universe. Jack, you published recently a paper on sort of the breakthroughs you guys have had in recent past, which was impressive. Do you mind just taking some of those off with Nidia's support?

50:21Yeah, I'm going to talk about one or two of them and Nidia, please do so as well. Well, just want to first pick up on Nudge's point on first principles. E -Line is very famous for coming back to the idea of go back to first principles thinking. And others, I think, are now also focused on that. And that's a big mantra for us. Don't just start with data that's out there. Start to think about what are the principles? What are the equations that can generate data, pristine data, data that then talks about that dynamic relationship of that electron to that electron. That is truly the first principle.

50:54the principle of down to that subatomic level. So, really proud of the work of the team. I'll just cite a few things that are happening right now with quantitative models. Let's take, for example, navigation. More and more in our world, Peter, and you know this, you are so focused on space and aviation and so experienced there, you know that GPS is brittle. GPS cannot be relied upon anymore. It's being jammed in large portions of the world. It's out here and there. and so pilots around the world are having difficulty, both in the civilian space and into the defense space. And the team, a very small team at Sandbox EQ, literally just about 11 people, again, using the three Cs, using this approach that we talked about, embedded themselves with various customers who have this massive point of pain.

51:43They've been on site with the United States Air Force again and again and again, flying up in their planes, particularly the C17. The Air Force has spoken publicly about this, so that's what we can talk about this today. And just recently, completed a two -year testing cycle that resulted in the final C17 run, where they flew up with our AI and the sensors. The sensors are feeding a huge amount of quantitative data about the magnetic field of the Earth coming from a quantum sensor. And that data has to go into a GPU, in Nvidia GPU in this case, and have that AI that we developed, reading that in real -time Peter so that it can look at the map of the world, the magnetic map, and look at where the magnetic field is underneath that plane, and then figuring out where it is in space, in the airspace.

52:37And sure enough, we pass that taste. What they do is they take you up in a C -17 Peter, and without letting you know when it's going to happen, they shut off the GPS four times in that lengthy flight and you, your AI, has got to navigate that plane. But most people don't realize is that GPS is being spoofed in some places. It's giving you the wrong signal which can drive you or fly you into territories that you don't want to be in. And no one's going to spoof in any way, shape, or form the Earth's magnetic field. So, yeah, you'd have to have another Earth and bring it over here, which I don't think you'd have any time soon.

53:13But the point is that that's a breakthrough that happened with a very small team. You know, Margaret Mead said, never underestimate the power of the small team, a committed small team for change. And sure enough, and that's the only thing that will. And sure enough, that's what we have across Sandbox Mead. We're split into smaller teams that have their own ability to innovate and collaborate. So that's an example where I don't see how either return to office would have resulted in that breakthrough or work from home. There's no way that either of those would have resulted in this breakthrough, where we had to spend weeks on end at the customers.

53:47We had to bring in experts from all around the world to make this happen. There's not many people I think that would have been. Agility is the key word for it. Agility of your team, the ability to form and reform both in space and time as needed. Real quick, I've been getting the most unusual compliments lately on my skin. Truth is, I use a lotion every morning and every night religiously called one skin. It was developed by four PhD women who determined a 10 amino acid sequence that is a syndolytic that kills senile cells in your skin. And this literally reverses the age of your skin. And I think it's one of the most incredible products.

54:31I use it all the time. If you're interested, check out the show notes. I've asked my team to link to it below. Alright, let's get back to the episode. Now, do you maybe want to talk about PFAS or some of the other breakthroughs we recently announced? Yeah, I'm worried about these forever chemicals and people don't realize we're poisoning our world. And as a mom and, you know, I bet you that's something you think about. Please tell us. Absolutely. It very much hits close to home because we know today that PFAS, it's a set of chemicals that are unable to be broken down. They're man -made, they're in the environment, they're in or drinking water.

55:07and we know today that babies are born with them. I'm nine months pregnant and my baby might be born with PFAS. And you're nine months pregnant right now? Yeah, I am nine months pregnant now. Oh my God, thank you for joining us. Wow.

55:22But, you know, I mean, they're, that thank you so much. But it is such a problem for our industry. One of the things that we are extremely proud of at Sandbox is that we were able to breathe computationally for the first time in human history, that bond energy of a PFAS molecule. And that is the first step in figuring out how to degrade this from our environment, but then also to create new alternative PFAS, right? That have the same properties that we know and love so much. We love our teflon. You know, we love our waterproof coats and things like that when it rains. We love these materials. They're very useful, but they're extremely toxic.

56:04And so, you We're very hopeful that with simulation technology, like the ones we've built today, and bringing together the teams to make these world records, to break them, to continue to collaborate in this way, on these break -throughs are really, it's a proof of our model here at Timhax. I want to talk about your predictions, Jack. You know, I spoke about this a little bit before. What are your predictions for the future of work here? And people are fearful of AI and humanoid robots taking their jobs. How do we deal with that? Interestingly enough, all the predictions thus far to date have proven false.

56:49All of the ATMs that we thought were going to take away all the banking jobs, or more banking jobs, and ever before, or all the computers are going to take away accounts, jobs, or more accounts, and ever before. How do you think about this? few things for a SOPEEDER. We're going to see huge divergence within every sector. We're going to see winners and losers, and we're going to see that happen on the basis of both the use of AI, or lack of use of AI, and also how they do the work they do. So in terms of AI, if we see a company out there, let's say, for example, take the automotive sector, and we see a number of companies out there, and some companies will adopt AI, And of course most of the old companies will use large language models for customer service and they're going to have some productivity, some cutting of costs probably measured in the single digit millions to tens of millions.

57:39Great, everyone, that's table states, Peter. Everyone should be doing AI based customer service and those kinds of areas, predictive maintenance, for example. Again, everyone should be doing that as well. But there will be some automotive companies who say, we're going to actually use AI in this deeper way to create the next product. We're going to create a new material. We're going to make the car out of a material, for example, using more carbon composite as one idea that's going to lightweight my car so that whether I'm using gas or less or whatever I'm using, it's going to be more efficient.

58:11The same thing can be said in the battery and energy industry. We're going to see that divergence as well. the same thing in Pharma. There'll be some Pharma companies that take hold of this AI and use it to cut it from eight, ten years down to one to two years of pre -clinical work and really have a high success rate in clinical trial and there's others that will be slow adopters. And so that's the first day of verges, but the second vector of divergence is going to be how they do the work. I'm going to put a bold, you wrote a book called Bold Peter, I'm going to put a bold prediction out here.

58:42Those companies in the big sectors of our economy that choose to either go down the rabbit hole of return to office only or work from home only. I think they become the codex and Westinghouses and Polaroids of the future. That's my predictor. Blockbuster the list here. Blockbuster and so on and so forth. And so what I think is going to happen is companies that really want to thrive, companies that want a great workforce, companies that want to have a global footprint because that's what their customer base is, global, then they're going to choose a third way. We're putting out one idea for a third way.

59:17People listening here, Peter, should maybe think about their own third way and how to take the three C's and maybe combine them in different ways. I don't think there's one size fits all. This works for us and I think others can take some of the elements. But one big message we're trying to share, Peter, is don't get locked in. But so here's my big message to people who want to quote unquote play the AI Space what how do I invest in the AI space what company do I invest in? It's actually a red herring just to look at the AI companies themselves Peter what I would suggest to people is The bigger way to play AI is to look at the biggest sectors of our economy finance Pharma energy so and so forth and say who are gonna be the winners and losers?

1:00:00You're going to see a vast divergence over the next five to six years. If you're talking about something in the warehousing distribution space, such as a e -commerce or retail, are they going to adopt humanoid robots faster than their competitor? Are they going to be more efficient in how they do that? Look at Amazon. They've been back to Agility. So this is what's not spoken about Peter. People get obsessed with the AI companies themselves and great to get the attention. Thank you. Fantastic. But the bigger point not discussed is how are we going to see this divergence in the biggest sectors of the traditional economy?

1:00:37I agree. I do want to take your prediction here. What's going to happen with jobs here? Oh, on jobs. Let me start and then I'll try to nod you as well. Well, I believe that AI will produce literally millions of new jobs. Yes, there'll be some displacement within certain job categories where, for example, if right now you're somebody who's picked back and shipped into warehouse, I do think that an AI -driven human or a robot will take that job. And by the way, that's going to save a huge amount of ergonomic stress and injury, you know, onto humans. And we've got to get proactive. Again, Amazon being proactive, I hope others start to do that as well to say, hey, that person's job is going away.

1:01:21So there are specific jobs that will go away, but let's find a new role for that person. Net net over five to ten years, I think the net is millions of millions of new jobs, whole new job categories as well. So very optimistic about that. Naja, get your opinion too. Sure. I mean, you know what the way I see this going is that we're just going to have more human AI collaborations. It's just going to up level everyone's thinking it's going to up level people's roles. It's going to create new roles as Jack mentioned and It will have new products right we will have personalized technology solutions personalized robots personalized AI Assistance personalized agents.

1:02:00I think it's going to hit the consumer market in a pretty unique way in the future But what that will do to the workforce, the employees, to really focus us on critical thinking and decision -making and Outcomes -based metrics which are set up here with the three C's really Empowers us to take advantage of Peter, let me add to that prediction. Mickey even more pointed today's global GDP is roughly 110 trillion per year GDP of the world 110 trillion per year US is about 25 % of that my My prediction to you is that as AI flows through both on the language side and on the quantitative side creating new value, new products, new pharma, we're going to see a doubling of the GDP of the world.

1:02:47Now that's a bold prediction because what economists are used to is talking about a 2 % increase in global GDP, a 3 % per year increase. That would take many years right to get to a doubling. That doubling is going to happen pretty soon. This is something Peter, you've talked about so many times in singularity, in other exponential and abundance in other places. We are not mentally prepared as a side right now. I agree with you. This is the roaring 20s from a multitude of different reasons. As soon as you get labor and cognitive costs diminishing and dividing by zero leads you to infinity. It's an extraordinary world ahead.

1:03:25Absolutely. So I do think that the best organizations, if I can make a prediction, Peter, are going to be outcome -based. They're going to treat people like adults. They're going to take the best of multiple parts of these models and move ahead in their own way. They're going to make use of AI in all its forms, physically embedded AI, physical formula AI, which is robotics of all kinds. It could be a human or a robot. It could be an arm that's used and we'll also see revolutions in terms of the interaction of Humanoid lighter robots along with the big industrial robots that we're used to seeing.

1:04:02We're going to see the use of AI in all kinds of community and also again in mental health as well. There's a mental health and loneliness Epidemic in our country when we think about older people the idea of retiring has got to go away I'm not saying people should work for every in the sense of the kind of work we think today, but the point, the kind of work you do, Peter, when you say, you don't even feel like working, right? Because you're doing what you love. Anybody who wants to, a good argument for not retiring Google, the correlation between retirement and death. That's right. As soon as you've given up on a purpose in life, having a purpose is one of the single most important things.

1:04:41And having something to look forward to, a friend of mine says, having a future that's bigger than your past, right? That's, that is a vibrant life. And hopefully, as we see the health span revolution materializing, that is able to give people the vital energy and you're not in pain. We'll see people wanting to desire to work because our birth rate's been dropping. We need that as well. I mean, it's an extraordinary world ahead. And Peter, let me just say if we can marry that longevity that we're getting with the golden age of education. And I'm not sure if I can continue this education. Exactly.

1:05:17So I have a friend, 54 years old, just became a doctor, started medical school at 50 age of 51, just graduated. She's gonna become a practicing doctor now, not because this is the best way to earn money per se. She wants that, she dedicated to this idea of spending the next 30 years of her life practicing medicine. And that's a beautiful thing. Let's encourage more of that, right, where we want people to have second and third whole pursuits. I'm not even using the word career because I think that's an old term. Not if you have any thoughts on that. I kind of think about it from the drug discovery side.

1:05:58You know, one of the key areas for us is in neurodegend and you know, it's sort of our near term beachhead. And as we solve for that, the next thing to go after is longevity, right? from, not explain neurodegenerative. What are the kind of diseases in neurodegenerative? Sure. Sure. So neurodegenerative diseases, I mean, these are Alzheimer's parking since... Neurodegenerative diseases that affect us at the end of our lives. And if you live long enough, you will be subject to them. And I think we will live through a world with the help of sandbox where we see these diseases be treated very successfully.

1:06:33And so then you look at life expansion. And it's coming back to all the things that you all were saying. I mean, that is the ultimate final frontier of medicine. Peter, we're very fortunate at Sandbox, they queued to have one of our new partners and customers as the Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's research. And they've asked us to use R .A .I. to help the labs that they fund accelerate the breakthroughs, accelerate the treatments, accelerate biomarkers. And we had the opportunity and the privilege just a few weeks ago to attend the Michael J. Fox Foundation gathering where Michael J.

1:07:14Fox was there. I'm getting emotional talking about this because it is an emotional subject. It is very inspiring to see him, to see the 22, 23 years that he's dedicated to this. He's raised over $2 billion in this period of time to galvanize to invest in research And now AI is coming to help. It's coming to accelerate the work that he has funded and others have funded This is an incredible moment Peter Peter if I can turn the tables for me and ask you You're somebody who speaks to folks like us. You're somebody in touch with so many people at the edge What are you seeing from your vantage point in the growth of the exponential organization, be it a for -profit, be it a university, be it a nonprofit, what excites you about this moment in time to jump to the exponential organization?

1:08:06Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, one of my funds is a group called exponential ventures out of Adba MIT with Dave Blunden and what we're seeing and find young teams out of MIT in Harvard because they're, they pull in from around the world and they're there and they're what exactly you're saying, they're in a foxhole situation where they're finding out, oh, I like this gal, I like this guy, they work hard, they're smart and they form sort of a nucleus. And today the incoming MIT freshman, 70 % when I start a company, right, which is extraordinary, never was that way. And a lot of those are AI companies.

1:08:49And so I think there is a two different drivers today. One that people want to do something that's meaningful. They just don't want a job. They want to contribute to society. They want to have the ability to be part of a massive transformative purpose. And the second thing is they want to have the agility to live their life where they want, how they want. And I think old -style companies trying to recruit into very structured formats are going to have a hard time competing, just very fundamentally. And I think the tools of collaboration that were, you know, listen, COVID gave us a gift and that gift was driving a new expectation of how we work, sort of breaking the old model and giving us a set of collaborative tools that everybody adopted.

1:09:43I think we're also going to see this transformation hitting education too because today we still have a very old school educational model in elementary, middle, high school, college, all of that. So a lot of transformation coming, how we work with each other. Agility for me is the number one sort of measure of success. If you multiply intelligence times agility, you get magic. That's great Peter. No great great to get that point of view as well. Also shout out to our friend, Dub Siamen, for writing the book called How. It was written before this period of time. So, but he really focused also on integrity, on the focus on making sure that when you're working with people, there's openness, there's transparency.

1:10:34I also got inspired by that book as well. And I think you're right Peter. It's probably time for us to write this up, to write up the three C's, to write up the third way, and to show people there are alternatives. You don't have to jump into one bucket or the other and suffer the consequences. If you need to give the heads of HR, the employee -based, the executive -based tool to use a data guide. Playbook, yeah, so that they have, because today we just default to the old ways of doing things. It's our cognitive biases you spoke about earlier. Let me just say to both of you, thank you. Jack, I am grateful to call you a friend, a board member, trustee of the ex -price, one of our most nuclear power source.

1:11:26I call you that every time, the loud out amount of energy, enthusiasm, and - Plutonium is right here. Yeah, buddy. I know it is. And Nadia, what a true pleasure to meet you, you're brilliant. And I look forward to deepening a friendship with you as well. So everybody, here we are, there's a new way of work. It's the three -seize approach. You know, I agree with what Jack and Nadia have said, you know, return to office, very limited and working from home, very limited. The question is how do you provide the agility to become an exponential organization to really employ exponential entrepreneurs who are adults that you believe in, you give them outcome focus objectives and let them do their work on income burden.

1:12:13And I love what you said, Jack, as a leader, whether you're running a division of AI simulation, what a cool name that Nadia has or whether the CEO of the company, helping your team succeed, breaking down their service leadership. You guys, thank you for all. Excited to have you back on the moonshots podcast to hear the continued breakthroughs. And I love that forever chemicals are going to be broken down. Forever no more. Exactly. Exactly. That's right. That's right. Well, great to be with both of you, Peter. Thanks for hosting us. Nadia, thanks for joining today. Thank you guys. Thank you both so much for having us.

1:12:53Be well.