The Coming Bitcoin Surge w/ Cathie Wood | EP #88

34:07The highest quality most innovative auto companies in the world. I have no question at all. For a multitude of reasons, the Chinese will invest. And I was talking to some of my friends who run large language model, fun focused AI companies today. And their belief is that China's LLMs are at or above the GPT -4 level already and will be. And one of the things that the Chinese companies have as advantages are a government that puts their finger on the scale and creates regulatory reforms to support them and causes capital to flow in. So there are very few restrictions. And despite that, America does incredibly well.

35:02But that is a... China is going to play big in this in the chip world and in the AI world for sure. I think I think they're property issues and just the massive overleveraging that took place over the 20 years after they entered the WTO just by the dip by the dip leverage up leverage up has come back to haunt them and that they need to change the subject. So what I'm hoping is that it's not Taiwan, but that it is actually their own prowess in AI. Everybody, I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that's very important to me, and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love.

35:50A company is called Fountain Life, and it's a company I started years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented physicians. You know, most of us don't actually know what's going on inside our body. We're all optimists. Until that day, when you have a pain in your side, you go to the physician and they burn in your room and they say, listen, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have this stage three or four going on. And you know, it didn't start that morning. It probably was a problem that's been going on for some time. But because we never look, we don't find out. So, what we built at Fountain Life was the world's most advanced diagnostic centers.

36:29We have four across the US today and we're building 20 around the world. These centers give you a full body MRI, a brain, a brain vasculature, an AI -nabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque, dexascan, a grail blood cancer test, a full executive blood workup. It's the most advanced workup you'll ever receive. 150 gigabytes of data that then go to our AIs and our physicians to find any disease at the very beginning When it's solvable you're gonna find out eventually Might as well find out when you can take action found life also has an entire side of therapeutics We look around the world for the most advanced therapeutics that can add 10 20 healthy years to your life and we provide them to you At our centers So if this is of interest to you, please go and check it out.

37:21Go to FountainLife .com -peter. When Tony and I wrote our New York Times bestseller Life Force, we had 30 ,000 people who reached out to us for Fountain Life memberships. If you go to FountainLife .com -peter, we'll put you to the top of the list. It really is something that is, for me, One of the most important things I offer my entire family, the CEOs of my companies, my friends, it's a chance to really add decades onto our healthy life spans. Go to fountainlife .com, backslash, Peter. It's one of the most important things I can offer to you as one of my listeners. All right, let's go back to our episode.

38:02Speaking of AI, let's go to the conversation around AGI and digital superintelligence. And the first thing I'll say is we passed the touring test without anyone noticing a long time ago, right? So like, hey, everybody, did you notice we passed the touring test 1 ,000 times over in the last couple of years or the last year at least? AGI, you put out a beautiful curve that looks at people's predictions of when we're going to have human level intelligence. right in 1999, it occurs while famously predicted, 2029, pretty balsy, 30 years out to predict a single year and not - And they thought he was crazy.

38:47The volume was crazy, impossible. It's 100 years out, it's 50 years out. And so what did that curve you put out, say? So it said, and as recently as 2019, so that's 30 years after, was it, so he put it out in 1999? Yeah, 1999. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, 20 years later, in 2019, futurists, these aren't just normal, you know, forecasters of technology, but actual futurists. It's a survey, Brett Winton, Artie Futurist, and AI and AI focus futurists as well. Exactly. Exactly. So 2019, those futurists said, AGI was 80 years away today, today, eight years away. So Ray, and if they continue to make the same forecasting error, it could be three to four years away.

39:51And there you go. I mean, Ray may have hit it on the map. nailed it. We'll celebrate him in 2029. Elon's predictions have been between 2025 and 2028. He said, basically, this and Ray got it right. Of course, the question becomes a right. We have human level AI because I still think of much of the AI systems that I'm using right now in their focused area are much better than humans. We don't have have a generalized AI. But what happens next, of course, is where we have a singularity. We talk about a singularity is a horizon beyond which you can't predict what's going to happen next. And there's going to be an AI singularity when AI's are self -programming themselves.

40:46And when we get to digital superintelligence, You know, because fine, if we have human level AI in 2029 by 2030, you know, it's 2x4x10x, because the doubling time in the AI world in terms of algorithms, capital, compute has been less than Moore's law. It's been faster than Moore's law. Yes, every three to four months, forget about 18 months to two years. It's unbelievable, because AI training costs are dropping 75 % per year. AI inference costs, according to our estimates and research, they're dropping 85 -90 % per year. It's unbelievable. And the amount of capital going in, the amount of capital going in now, what do you predict at that?

41:33Number, you mean the amount of capital being invested into AI -related compute companies and so forth. I mean, last year the prediction I think was like about 150 to 180 billion went in and I just see this is a Is a everybody's pouring capital in yes, and so here is the question there that we're getting all the time is this is this a bubble and the way we are Answering it is no, this is not a bubble. This is there's something was electricity a bubble? Exactly. Now, is there too much capital chasing the same thing? That could be. I can tell you we've had in and you know the headlines, I'm not saying anything that you don't know, but we have been pulling away from Nvidia, mostly because we see how well understood that story is and it is and and all praise to Jensen Wong and his incredible team.

42:50You know, they have done so much of the heavy lifting up, you know, as we've evolved to this level. Now, however, it is we're the companies in our portfolio that are hugely undervalued and not recognized for what AI is going to enable are those with deep domain expertise and especially in one of your favorite areas, Peter, the multiomics space. So deep domain expertise, AI expertise, take this seriously. This is going to determine winners and losers. good distribution, whether a loaner with partners, and then finally, most important, harnessing that proprietary data. Data that a company has that nobody else has.

43:43So that's where we're spending a lot of our time. I tell my entrepreneurs, you've got to wrap your arms around your data. What data do you want to collect? What data do you have? What data are you going to gather for sure? So when I'm looking at ARC for investments in AI, Is it the innovation fund? Is it the autonomous tech fund and robotics fund? Which ETF do you have most of your AIS? Well, when we think AIS, ARKW is probably the most focused, but AIS, as I mentioned before, is going to permeate every sector, every industry and and should impact every company. And so our flagship strategy has the multiomics in it as well.

44:27And we think that there will be some of the most profound applications of AI in the multiomics space, which is incredibly out of favor. I know when, when, when, when, Oh, it's been a blood bath. It's been a blood bath. Yes, when the, biotech stocks, yeah. Yeah, and when the, critic, shall I say, see a sale of Nvidia and the purchase of recursion, which by the way Nvidia's venture firm owns, and is very picky about what it owns, too, especially in the life sciences space. They go crazy. They don't understand. They don't understand that recursion is from a drug discovery point of view, getting superior results because of AI and because of Nvidia.

45:25Yeah, you know, my friend, who runs in Silicon Medicine, which is another AI driven drug discovery company. He was creating generative, pre -trained transformers from molecule designs before, it was a term, and it's amazing because all of a sudden drug discovery costs are collapsing. And what people don't realize is AI is the first act. Quantum is coming next. And it's going to, you know, the people, yeah, I don't know how people are going to deal with the disruption, the speed of disruption. We're about to announce an X Prize with Google in the quantum space, by the way. So stay tuned for that and I have Hartmout Nevin who is the head of Google's quantum on stage with me this month and he was telling me that they're about to make some huge announcement in the quantum space as it relates to classical computing and so super excited when quantum starts to become Part of the infrastructure of our day -to -day lives and we don't realize that but things are just instant and magical.

46:43It's coming. And I think it's not, you know, it's it's in the near term. It's within everybody's investment horizon and job horizon and leadership horizon, education horizon. And no one is getting us ready for it. Yeah, you know, just to jump back to the last point because I think something, you know, as we say, new discoveries and just kind of unlocking the the code to life death and death and disease, that is what's going on now, and this convergence between multi -omic sequencing and artificial intelligence. But one of the more practical things that I think astonish people who are in the research business, shall I say, is that the number if we're right, the number of trial failures, and you know 90 % plus of trials fade, 95 % of trials, they fail.

47:45That's going to drop by, we think, 75%. And that's going to be a huge unlock of resources, very practical, huge unlock of resources. And what are the reasons is you're going to select who's in your trial more accurately. Absolutely. One thing people don't realize, when you're taking a drug that's been approved for disease by the FDA. The percentage of people who have that disease for which the drug actually works is like under 20%. Yes. Yes. It's crazy. What's very interesting, again, this is the big idea is if you look at the drugs that the FDA has approved for the proteome, now today, it is only, they target only 4 % of the proteome.

48:38We think with targeted protein degraders and degraders and multi -omic sequencing, that is going to shoot up over the years. This is a slow moving because of regulatory, but to 56, 58 percent. Yeah. You know, one of the things I'll only get to my favorite pet subject on human health span and longevity. We just launched the largest x -price ever, $111 million of capital for the team that I could reverse loss of function in muscle, immune, in cognition by 20 years or more. So we have 300 teams, hopefully we'll get to a thousand teams competing for this X prize. It's funded out of Saudi and out of the US.

49:33But what folks that realize is, we've all accepted death at like 80, 90 years old. It's like just the way it is. And there are species on this planet, it, bow head whales, it lived at 200 years, and Greenland sharks that lived to 500 years have have pups at 200 years. And the question is, why can they and why can't we? And when I was in medical school years ago, for me, the realization was that either hardware problem or software problem. And we're going to be able to eventually solve it. I think this is the decade that we have the tools to understand why we age, how to slow it, how to stop it, how to reverse it.

50:14And you want to talk about impact on society? Uh -huh. Imagine if at 70, 80, 90, you had the energy when you had a 30 or 40, right? There was a study at a Harvard, Davidson clear did that said adding just one year of health to the US population is worth $38 trillion. I have to track those numbers down. I mean, if you Google it, that's insane. Yeah. That's interesting that you say that. I had, when you were mentioning the whales, I was thinking, okay, cold baths, that's definitely one of the reasons, right? I think it has to do with their particular genes that allow them to detect and slay cancer.

50:56I mean, but we now got the tools to go and re -program ourselves, right? The tools around CRISPR and around gene editing and gene therapy. Absolutely. Absolutely. And what's so interesting in the traditional financial world, we own all of the, pretty much, all of the major CRISPR stocks. And yet, you know, and we get questions like, why do you own those? There's no EBITDA there because this is so new, just approved by the FDA for beta thalacemia and sickle cell disease, that's CRISPR therapeutics and vertex. This is what I'm talking about. We talked about at the beginning of this space and podcast.

51:48It is investors in the traditional financial world, not willing to invest in the future. Isn't that something? What is investing? In fact, when I started arc and I was trying to explain to someone not in the financial business why I needed to start art. He ended up replaying it back to me and he said, oh, you mean the future of investing is investing in the future? And I said, yes, bingo, because these benchmarks are all about the past, right? And by the way, I think the old economic systems and theories and practices have all broken. I think they've all, if I had more time, I'd write an economics book because old economics don't bear witness to what's going on today.

52:41Well, I think that there are many economic theories. I think the right one is the Austrian school and that people who understand the world from that angle are making sense of all of this, but I agree that, and I also agree that regulation and government policy is typically in the way, typically in the way. You know, the theme I love is the best way to predict the future is create yourself. And one of the things that you're doing through your investing, I'm doing through my investing or the companies I'm starting is let's make this happen. Let's not moan about it. Let's not worry about it, let's actually go and solve.

53:24The truth will win out and I believe there is no problem we cannot solve. And the best way to become a billionaire is help a billion people. And those convergent principles uplift humanity in a beautiful way. And I think as you say, as far as human longevity, just use first principles thinking, just just because something has been done one way for a hundred years, think automobile production. Doesn't mean that's the way it should be in the future. That's what Elon has done and has helped many people understand, wait a minute, can I think about this in a different way? And that's good. Just challenging conventional wisdom.

54:14And again, the more that happens, the more what you are saying is going to prove to be correct. Truth will win out. Yes. I mean, there's so many subjects to go on. How do you, how do you make short -term trades on these, on these waves of exponentials? What's your thesis there? Yeah. We get all kinds of questions on this as you might imagine, especially anytime we sell Tesla or in video. So we in in high conviction names that are still we believe going to deliver us our minimum hurdle rate of return which is 15 % at a compound annual rate over five years. So on average per year 15 % like a Tesla in spades I mean so much more than that if we're right.

55:11But we will, we will win it when it goes through a massive move to the upside. Last year at one point it was up 150%. And we started taking profits because guess what? Some of these multi -oX names were getting crushed. And we needed, you know, when you have only 100 % to work with, you need to trade around ideas. So take some of those profits from something that's up 150 % and buy something that is down 15 % in the same year, you know, sell high by low kind of a very basic investment tenant. Now, does that mean Tesla leaves our top five? No. In fact, it's still number two coin base in our flagship fund is number one.

56:03Because of the massive move that it has had and you'll he has taking profits there as well. I want to get a move to Bitcoin in a second. I want to ask you another question. I just have to imagine that Elon will become the first trillionaire. I have no way of not imagining that. I think he will. We have to get the court system out of determining CEO pay, shareholders. We were among the 73 % of shareholders who voted for that pay package, just delighted with it saying, wow, if he really will not take a salary, will not take a bonus until he doubled, at least double, minimum, doubles the share price, and then takes the stock up and revenue you up and EBITDA up by as much as these 12 tranches of, if he does that, this stock is going to go crazy.

57:06And it did. It went up 13 fold and they're using some. Only he has performed over the last decade or so. Oh my gosh. You know, think about that. That is, they were using some very, you know, esoteric legal fairness clause. And it was like, are you kidding me? That was so fair to shareholders in taking no pay. Everything in options, all on the come, all on performance. If more CEOs were like that, we'd have a much stronger economy, much better performing companies. Yeah, without question. Hey everyone, I want to take a quick break from this episode to tell you about a health product that I love, and that I use every day.

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59:19Bitcoin, congrats on your ETF. It's done very well. Your number three now? Number three. You know, this was David against Goliath. And, you know, so this is a very nice win for us. Now, we're not finished. And in fact, in our business, what's interesting is the wire houses which dominate our customers. So Morgan Stanley, all the advisors at these wire houses, is Morgan Stanley, UBS, Maryland, at B of A, a Wells Fargo, not one of them has approved Bitcoin on its platform. That hasn't even happened yet. Those are our primary clients. When that happens, wait until you see it. Explosion. Yeah, I used to, years and years ago, I went on CNBC, saying I sold on my gold and I bought Bitcoin and I said, it follows the 60s roadmap, it's digitized, dematerialized, dem monetized, and democratized, and in all of these things, you have slow deceptive growth, and then it becomes disruptive.

1:00:26And we're just at, I mean, it's been a slow disruption, but institutional, in the institutions coming on, and then governments following, I mean, the ship has sailed. Yes, it has. This is not just a technology. It's a new asset class, right? And beyond that, it's a global monetary system. It is the first global private, meaning no government oversight, digital, and decentralized rules based. That's the most important word here. Rules based monetary system in history. It's a big idea. Yeah, it is. I'm going to have Mike Seller on my on my stage, the same place that you spoke last time and we're going to spend a couple of hours talking about this, but not just Bitcoin as a store of value, but Bitcoin related applications.

1:01:32Right? Where's Lightning Network going? This is, you know, Bitcoin is, I've heard you say this, the financial side of the internet that did not exist in the 90s. And it's also the mechanism that AI is going to be using to implement your will through it on the world. Yes. We did something called Bitcoin BrainStorm. We do a Bitcoin BrainStorm monthly. And one of them was the convergence between Bitcoin and AI. And we had, you'll probably know of his developer name, Roespeeth, from the Lightning Network on. And he was talking about how in Africa, already this convergence is redefining division of labor.

1:02:29I mean, the gig economy we understand here in the United States put that on steroids in terms of micro, micro -gig economy in the emerging markets and you have a whole new kind of economy. So yes, very exciting. Yeah. We can see the hash rate exploding onto the scene, having coming. and I hate to ask predictions again, but I think I remember your sort of bare case meeting case and best case, give us some of those numbers as you see them. Yes, well, we have all kinds of metrics, but when I was at abundance, the forecast was, our bull case was $1 .5 million in five years. So that would have been 2027.

1:03:26We still have time. And, uh, and we still think that's going to be right. Um, if you just look at the institutional push into Bitcoin, this new asset class, they have to consider it as fiduciaries. When you use that code, those code words, new asset class, what it means, the correlation of these returns are very low compared to those of other assets. Especially as bonds and stocks are becoming more correlated and need something uncorrelated. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And so they have to consider it. Now what are we saying? There are 19 .6 million Bitcoin out there right now. And the highest it will ever go is 21 million.

1:04:12Well, okay, there's real scarcity value. And what is going to happen? the price increase for every institutional dollar pushing in now is going to be much higher than it was last year, two years ago. It's, you know, we're going to get into if these institutions really want to own it, what I found fascinating recently, just learned it this morning is, typically when you go through a price move, a Bitcoin price move to the upside, you usually see long -term holders, which is a metric. We monitor it's on on chain analytic analytics metric and it means people who have not moved or wallets that have not moved their Bitcoin in 155 days or more.

1:05:06Yes, well normally when you go through a price move to the upside a very nice one like we've seen in the last year that tends to start moving down and it did that true to form but it has reversed in recent days because what we learned is G -B -T -C sold some of its Bitcoin. So that was those wallets hadn't been changed in a long time, right? Now that is done at for the time being. Now that is done and it's going back up again as the price goes up. That's highly unusual. And I think it is because the long -term holders saying, why would I sell now when I know all these institutions, which are nothing in this realm in this new asset class, they have to consider it because it is a new asset class.

1:06:04Yes. I have friends of mine who are just setting up their bitcoins they can borrow against it. No one wants to sell. Everyone is convinced it's on an uptick. And so I want to hear a couple of questions here. A friend of mine who you know, Bill Barhite, who is the CEO of Abra, right, is when the last man's standing, he's done an amazing job. What do you think of as the future of DeFi and the future of banking with regard to this? Yes, and first let me tell you a little story about Bill. In 2017, when Bitcoin was below $1 ,000, and there was a war going on between the Bitcoin Maximilist and you know those focused on the Ethereum network.

1:06:56Chris Berniske, you may know him, he was our first crypto analyst and went off to start placeholder. He decided you know what? We should have a meetup at our office between the Bitcoin and Ethereum supporters and we'll provide rules of Yeah, we'll provide rules of the road. And Bill was the grown up in the room, set the tone from the Ethereum side. And we had such a productive talk that I went out and bought Ether right away. I already owned a lot of Bitcoin because it was so convincing that there's a place for both. And yes, we... Bill is a brilliant adult in this space, yes, for sure. Yes, yes.

1:07:50And so, yes, we're very excited about the Ethereum network and Solana. And so they all play different roles in what I love is there's kind of a little competition. I think competition is always good to keep the other networks honest. And so, yes, we think that decentralized finance, and we do call it now the internet financial system, which is really a crazy way to keep going. in that. Yes. I like that because it really talks about the functionality more than this ethereal idea. It is the financial backbone and it's really the dematerialized and democratized access to taking action in the world.

1:08:40Absolutely. And taking the middleman out of everything. You know, when we get the sand out of the gears. Yeah, well, we did our digital wallet work You know, we're we're saying okay, let's try to figure out how much it how many steps it takes for a merchant or for a consumer to pay a merchant and That was nine steps including the two of them and that's and and you know there are many other middlemen, but these were the most direct steps and that is a one, well, a two to four percent tax on every purchase in the world if you're using intermediaries, credit cards and so forth. So just think about that.

1:09:27Cutting, you know, that tax rate dramatically is going to increase access dramatically. I want to hit on another fun subject. The nine -year -old inside of me is like the robots are coming, the robots are coming. You know, so humanoid robots, Tesla bot friend of mine is one of the senior leaders at Tesla and just showing me what's going on there is amazing, right? Tesla bot 2, Optimus second generation and then we've got, we've got Amica, we've got figure and my count 30 other humanoid robots in your development. Yes, and we think this is first of all, if you look at the right slot and apply it to industrial robots, what we see is based on the 50 % cost decline for every cumulative doubling in the number of robots out there, We believe that during the next six to seven years, that space is going to grow the fastest, even faster than AI.

1:10:38Now this is from a market valuation point of view. I'm talking about how it's valued in the marketplace. We think by more than 80 % per year, and I compound annual rate, whereas we think all of disruptive of innovation will be growing 40 % from roughly $20 trillion now in the public and private market and figure AI. We have taken a position in our venture fund there. So from 20 trillion to 220 trillion by the year 2030. So that's a 40 % compound annulatory of course, but generalizable robotics is going to grow the fastest we believe. Incredible. And my venture fund, Bull Capital, we took a position in figure as well.

1:11:28And of course, I'm a huge Tesla fan. Yes, yes, of course we are too. And it's interesting, if you look at the Elon's prediction on Optimistic at 20 ,000, let's say he's going to be optimistic as he normally is. And that's good. Optimism helps you. you know, if innovators weren't optimistic, they would never start any of the ventures because you've got to be optimistic. But let's say that it's not 20 ,000 for an optimist, let's say, or a figure, let's say it's 50 ,000. You know, if you're leasing it like you lease a car, you know, 500 bucks a month, you've got labor 24, seven sitting in your closet downstairs, working for you.

1:12:13It's extraordinary. It is. It is. We're pretty excited. And the way we value this particular space is it's roughly 50 -50 home and out of home about $12 trillion each. So yes, very exciting. It's a lot. Now the numbers are interesting for those who haven't seen the conversation. I've seen the node, Kosovo, who's a friend, talk about as well as the team at SIGUR that will hit billions, perhaps 10 billion by 2040. These are humanoid robots walking amongst us and millions by 2030. What do you think? What's your projections? We think they are right and that we are hitting the tipping point now. And, you know, Elon does not do anything unless he, well, nothing's small.

1:13:14We for sure, for sure. But unless, again, on a first principle's basis, he can justify it. And so the fact that he's, you know, throwing this weight behind it. And I hope he does get his 25 % voting control at Tesla because, you know, he does to a shareholder. Yeah. I want him to see this through. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. What I love is not only convergence in technologies, but convergence within Elon's companies. So we've got, we've got, you know, Tesla and SpaceX working together. And the other thing, and I'm spending some good time at the abundance of it on brand computer interface scenario that we haven't spoken about much, but the ability to connect your Neo Cortex to the cloud and be able to think in Google or take action, increasing intelligence.

1:14:06The number one greatest asset a company or nation has is the intelligence of its employees or its citizens. If you can up that to some degree, that would be extraordinary. So imagine, neural link and optimists together. right? So I'm able to occupy an Optimus robot someplace and drive it around. We've seen movies about this. And it's not that far away. We agree. We agree. Especially as we're combining what you just said with AGI, how wrong the market has been and how close to reality it might be. You know, So the point you just made, how wrong the market has been, I am flabbergasted. I don't know what the right term is, how confused I am about the public and the markets not recognizing how impactful these exponential technology -driven companies are and how, like are coming as these tsunami -sized convergences are about to transform every aspect of our lives, every company, nation -states are being transformed.

1:15:28And exactly accelerate the exponential growth rates. So I can tell you why. And I mentioned it briefly, but in the reasons, but in a word, people are scared. and they are hugging benchmarks because they don't want to go through another tech and telecom bust. They don't want to go through another financial meltdown. People are talking about another technology hype cycle here. So these are trigger words for them right now. So here's the irony. Here's the irony. In the late 90s, I was idea of the internet captured the investor's imagination and they started valuing companies on a number of eyeballs potentially in 10 to 20 years.

1:16:23I'll never forget when one travel company was worth more than all the airlines put together. So too much capital chased too few opportunities too soon and it ended badly. The technologies weren't ready and they were too expensive. So, but what people do not understand is the seeds for everything happening now were sown during the 20 years that ended in the tech and telecom bubble. They've been germinating for 25, 30 years. We are ready for prime time and unlike the late 90s, they're running away. They're running for the hills. What are their hills? their benchmarks is ridiculous. Old school safe havens for capital, which are...

1:17:13And that will end badly too. That will end badly. Yeah. When I'm looking to predict the future, one of the things I think about and look at is what I call user interface moments. These are moments where complex technology gets a simplified user interface on top of it that then makes the public, gives the public access. So when, when, when, when, with mosaic came along, right, when Mark Endreasing created mosaic, he put a user interface on top of arpanet and all of a sudden it exploded, right, Steve Jobs does that with the phone, with iPhone and the app store and so forth. Chat GPT created a user interface moment on top of large language models in, in all of a sudden, mass, right?

1:17:58So we're going to be seeing these user interface moments coming on, making all of this very rich, very powerful, complex technology accessible to everybody. And in one sense, AI is the ultimate user interface. Right? Absolutely. There will be a future. I keep on in my blogs and my books. I talk about Jarvis because I just love Jarvis from Iron Man. And it's like, it will be my interface where I don't know how to through it. 3D print or write 3D printing code. And I haven't coded in the number of years, but I know what I want. And if I can explain to my user interface exactly what I want, it has all the APIs and everything needed to go and do anything I desire.

1:18:44And you know natural language. Yes, I do. I do. There you go. The challenge is going to be, of course, and we'll have to deal with this is how do we overcome the ill actors, the malevolent actors in society who will want to use this for harm. Therein lies the black hat white hat, the use of AI to support humanity in doing good over evil. Yeah, this brings up the open source versus closed. Just in the spaces with Elon, he was saying, open AI, you should call it closed AI. But we have, and it's in the big ideas, we have a chart in there that shows the rate of performance improvement for closed source models and open source models.

1:19:44Now, if you look at the level, I mean, GPT -4 is just out there. It's way above the rest. But if you look at the slope of the line of performance improvements for open source, it is steeper. It's improving faster. And I'm wondering, I often say with the Bitcoin blockchain, I say, hey, this is a giant neighborhood watch. You've got a lot of people whose livelihoods and wealth are concentrated here and they don't want anything to go wrong. I feel like that should be the case in open source, with open source AI as well. Now, Elon in our spaces said he thought closed would win. And I'm thinking, well, maybe, but could it be that we've seen Lama II and can't wait to see Lama III is good enough, good enough.

1:20:48And I've talked to many enterprises who say, we just need this to settle down because we have to, quote, unquote, hardwire this for compliance and security and all of that. So I just wonder. I just wonder. I'm of the open source open will win. I really fundamentally believe that over and over again. I'm going to have we have hugging face. We have e -mod moustache going to be with us from stability. And I think one of the things that hasn't been calculated into this is we're going to see nation -state players partnering with open source players to digitize the data in their nations and create nation -state language models that are respectful of their culture and of their history.

1:21:41And so we're going to see, we'll see 100 plus major players out there. I don't think it's going to all be Microsoft or Google. I agree with you. I agree with you. I don't think people wanted to be Microsoft or Google. Yeah, though, you know, Google's Google's been an open source player almost every place else I know that's what's so interesting I it is fascinating and I hope that they do take on the the open source bandwagon I will I will not go into Into the conversation about Gemini right now because I don't want to get us into another our conversation Listen, I want to I want to close out and you've been so generous with with time.

1:22:23This has been a fun conversation, Kathy. That's been great. Yeah, I wish you too. Let's talk one second. You have gotten into the venture business since you are on my stage at Abundance 360. Talk one second about your venture fund moment and how people can find out more about that. So democratizing venture, it's an interval fund, which is it's regulated just like an ETF for a mutual fund. And for $500, and we're available on both Titan, which is an Andres and Orowitz funded app, and on SoFi now, just launch there. For $500, you can get access to SpaceX and Discord and Epic and Databricks, which bought mosaics, which we owned.

1:23:13And so a free, free gnome in the multi -ohmic space. So really transformational companies were excited about this effort. And we're really grateful to them. How big is your mantra fund? So it started about a year ago and its grassroots, as I just described, it is approaching, I think it's just about 50 million now. And we know that the wirehouses will look forward to putting it on their platforms when it hits crosses a threshold say 70 to a hundred million depending on the wirehouse. So we're excited about that. Yeah, I mean, because most people like, you know, from my venture funds, your minimum investment is a million, two million dollars, you know, and so it's, and so the other thing, yeah.

1:23:57The other thing, Peter, is we're not charging a carry. We are charging a 2 .75 % fee, but no carry. And that is why we can offer it to retail. Go figure. This is an SEC rule. If you don't earn a million, if you don't, I don't know what the thresholds are, but a million dollars and some other dollar for income, which most of our young investors don't, you can't have a shot at these moon shots. Of course, this is critical for diversification to have some segment of your assets in venture, and you make it possible for them. And congratulations on that. Thank you. Yeah, and where does one go to learn about the rest of the incredible ecosystem you've created?

1:24:45Oh, thank you. So it's Arch -Dash Invest .com. You can find big ideas 2024 on there. And then we also have all of our podcasts we do in the know, which is more economics and a little bit of innovation, that's every month, Bitcoin brainstorm, Bitcoin monthly. And we have something called, it's actually very interesting, it's called the brainstorm and it's Nick Ruse, who's an APM with me and Sam Koras, who's a director of research, basically summarizing our brainstorm from the previous Friday, comes out the following Tuesdays. So definitely stay tuned for that. Nice nice and I would love to have you back on my stage in next year's abundance summit Which is a common theme on convergence and let's talk about sort of you know where things are going someone interested in seeing these tsunamis Where do they invest what it what's your what's your thinking?

1:25:47Anyway, I'm excited for that. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your work. Thank you so much, Peter Thank you for your work. Yes. Yes. We've got a we got to bring we got to reverse this massive misallocation of capital and redirect it, right? And also, if I could, the negativism out there, we are living very most extraordinary time ever, right? We are. This technology's uplifting humanity. It's creating, increasing abundance. And these are good things. And it tends to, sorry, Peter, it tends to gain traction during tough times. So when people are negative and not optimistic is when surreptitiously, deceptively as you say, these technologies start to take whole and then please God, we're into the roaring 20s again.

1:26:38Yes, amazing, amazing. Yeah. Cathy, a pleasure. We're gonna end our spaces here. If you'd stay with me on the video, take care everybody. Thank you for joining us and see you next time.