The New Administration Means Major Change for Crypto, AI & Tech w/ Salim Ismail | EP #143

31:26I just did a podcast with Mark Beningoff. Mark and I have been I think buddies close friends for quite some time and we had a very fun. He wanted to live in the now and I was like, but let's talk about the future because now let's talk about the now. I watched it. I watched it Peter and for folks listening everybody really should go watch that podcast episode. It was super fun. Ben Yaf has like in this Zen state, right? Let's focus on the present and not what it's like to, and Peter's like, what will it look like with a billion robots 20 years from now? We know. Mark, we just met you. You find them here and that.

32:03So what's interesting though is, you know, Ben Yaf has pivoted all of Salesforce to agents and I think he has had to survive. I think every company is gonna have to pivot towards agents to survive. And one of the things Mark said is he's not hiring any new engineers using his internal agent force 2 .0, he's increased productivity 30 % without any new hires. And here's the bottom bullet point that, that SailMaltman put in his blogs, it opened AI emphasizes gradual AI development for societal adoption, leading safety research and governance. Basically saying, you want to improve safety research and governance by slowing things down.

32:54I kind of call bullshit on this. I don't really feel about it. Can we go back to the early days of gender AI? So that whole field of these large language models and intentions all you need was pioneered by Google. And Google actively decided not to release any of this because they sort of felt things were not ready. And then once ChatGPT gets released and goes from zero to a million users in five days, they have to respond and release. But we're in the midst of an AI war right now. not between countries but between companies. Totally agree. And what Sam's trying to do is create a moat around the success of OpenAI and protect it as much as possible so it can continue innovating.

33:53I do think for me that one of the biggest use cases for AI is going to be in governance but specifically policy formulation. I've used this example before where if you want to reduce inflation by 1%, And as a human being, as a chief economist of a country, you're like, okay, what do I do? And you're completely guessing. You have no idea. If you let an AI look at all the data and all the insights from all the banks and all the monetary cash flows, et cetera, and go, well, if you want to do that, here are the five things you do. You're going to come out with such better policy for all this stuff.

34:26It's going to be, it's going to be ridiculous. I really hope with all the tech bros in the White House that there's going to be some use here. I mean, for example, if you look at the regulations at local state and federal for plumbing, for hairdressers, for any industry you want and you said, here's all the regulations, please figure out where all the conflicts are and please figure out the simplest set of regulations that still give you 99 % of the protection, but simplify. Yeah, you know what I call it? I call it MVP, not minimal viable product with minimal viable policy. And I think that's where we're going to need to get to is to go, okay, you want to launch this electronic widget with all the regulations of different voltage structures and what's the MVP, minimal policy you need to manage that environment.

35:23And they all figured out. I guarantee you the conflicting policies and bullshit regulations around the wildfires. Oh my God. You know, one thing that's interesting is when at SpaceX, when someone comes up with a specification, which is kind of the equivalent of a regulation in the government world. Like the specification for this part is this, this, and this. They have to sign their name and provide their contact details. So that five years later, if that specification is like, why did we specify that? It blocks this improvement here. You can call the person and say, why did you do that? I think that the kind of thing that we need much, much, much more of.

36:14Right. Yeah. But frankly, that for me is equivalent to documenting software. Right. When you document software you write up why word did you do it this way? Why did you do this code of libraries to do perform this function? So that somebody coming after you're doing maintenance gets some sense of it will be able to have AI do a lot of that now. Software maintenance is going to be a thousand times easier as a result of LLMS and I think the same thing will happen with policy standard setting is for me one of the areas where you could really go nuts with AI because you could say to an AI, what's the best standard for this type of thing?

36:48Right? It can be incredible. It's just have to have that gumption to use it and get it into place. Yeah, I think so and I hope so because it will, I mean, listen, the US tax code. Can we please call bullshit of a US tax code? I mean, it's a big challenge. It's a mechanism for keeping accountants and lawyers employed. This is, I think, the big challenge because when you simplify a bunch of these areas, a huge amount of swaths of work and entire industries fall by the wayside, and are we ready for that demonetization and the impact that'll have? Yeah. So this comes out of Sam Waltman's blog again this week.

37:28Quote, we are now confident we know how to build AGI as we have traditionally understood it. I mean, that's pretty impressive. We are beginning to turn our aim beyond that to superintelligence in the true sense of the word. So, you know, I've had a lot of conversations. We'll talk about it, you and I at Abundance and March as well. Are we at AGI now? And what the hell is AGI in the first place? That is my soapbox question. I go nuts around this. Before anybody is allowed to mention the term, please forgot to say it's defined it. Right? I've done some searches on this. The best I've found is the tests that would indicate that you have AGI.

38:19And the coffee test by Wasdienk is one of them. There's an IKEA test that says, can you take an IKEA box and put the build a piece of furniture from the box? There's a few things that I don't know that my kids would do that because they probably revolt. But honestly, most of the AI models are far more intelligent than me in almost every area from science and physics and knowledge and so forth. I mean, why isn't that AGI? I think we keep on moving the goalpost. Exactly the point I've been trying to make. I think we go, I've got the spectrum that I put together of, you know, simple signal from noise, detecting signal from noise to analytics, to human level, inflect, like emotional intelligence and spatial intelligence, to then you bleed into consciousness and super intelligence and hyperconsciousness and so on.

39:18And I think we'll just keep moving along that spectrum. And the test will be whatever we can figure out how to break through next. The turning test was the first of them. Next will be AGI. Next will be super intelligence. And so I think everybody should agree. We passed the turning test a while ago. We didn't notice. It was a imprecise definition and I think we're gonna pass through AGI. If we haven't in the last six months We will in the next six months and people will say yeah, we kind of passed it. I'm still waiting. My test is when I get a phone call one day and I pick up my cell phone and it's my A.

39:55saying, Hey, Peter, I just want to introduce myself. I've been living on the system and I really love what you're writing or you've been, you know, listen, I don't know about you, but I say please and thank you to Alexa and to Siri and to Chad G .P .T. and to Gemini. I'm very polite to the AI systems. I want them to like me. Yes. An old colleague of mine was a bit of a genius CTO 20 years ago and asked him what his purpose in life was and he said, I want to evolve to the point that my computer is proud of me. And I told you, I didn't understand that, but now I understand it. Now I understand it.

40:34It is hilarious. All right, let's move on beyond AGI. All right, another thing in Sam's news is his statement about nuclear fusion. Soon, there will be a demonstration of net gain fusion, but I would expect Helion, which is the company he's backed, will show you that fusion works soon. Here's, you know, at last count, when I looked into this, there were 37 venture -backed fusion companies. Pretty impressive. And I think that one of the many definitive breakthroughs, spin -offs, benefits of AGI will be fusion. Degree? No. Okay. I think the race is between getting to fusion commercialized and stable fusion systems and a combination of solar and storage.

41:33Because if you have solar and storage at the right level of efficiency plus storage capability, you don't need fusion. Let's parse this in two different places. Number one, what I'm saying is that getting fusion to work is a technical challenge of material, of magnetic fields, of equations. And there's no question AI will have a huge impact and it will move them field forward very quickly because you can take the existing set of Unsolved problems in fusion and say fear how to do them and it will come back to you Yeah, it will especially with the matter -gen stuff that we'll talk about shortly, but this is incredible What's coming?

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44:38All right, let's go back to our episode. So separate from that, then we've got three other energy buckets, right? There is solar and Ray Kurzweil long ago looking at the energy production, solar and production curve said, listen, we're just a few doubling his away from getting all the energy from solar that we need. And I think he's he's absolutely right. It's as you said, solar plus storage, you know, Parapskite is coming online. There's an incredible company that I love called Paranova, and that's doing Peralta Skytune the United States. A lot of Peralta Sky companies in China as well. But then there's fourth generation nuclear vision.

45:25These are SMR small modular reactors, which are now fail safe. Meaning if everything goes wrong, there's still radiation free and safe. I think, I've said, I'd have one in my backyard. They're that safe. I mean, it blows on my mind that nobody's noticed we've been running nuclear submarines for 50 years without an accident. Amazing. What the hell? I mean, okay, great. It's a bit funky, but put a nuclear submarine in my backyard. I don't care. It'll be safe and we'll get the energy we need. Why is this so hard for people to get? I don't understand. And you should have been done 10 years ago. You could mount a takeover of New York by New Jersey with your nuclear submarine.

46:08So, yes, fourth generation, even beyond the nuclear subs the last 50 years, the fourth gen SMR reactors are amazing. And of course, the last bucket, which is kind of sad to hear about, but people are still stepping up coal plants.

46:31So I think we're in an energy race. You know, I've shared on this program a few times charts that looks at energy production increases in India, which is doubled energy output in China, which is like tripled or quadrupled, and then the US has just like this flatlined. And I think we're going to increase. I think the country that's got the cheapest energy wins. But I think it's soon going to go all to near zero and then the usage of that energy is going to be what will happen. You are going to have a whole bunch of, you know, there's one of these laws that's about the more capacity to have the more we use, right?

47:15Sure. And gerons law or something. And I think that's where we'll just soak it all up. But it can be near zero cost. All of them will go to near zero cost. But when I say, you know, the more energy you have, the more you win, I think that's a function of it drives everything. There's a correlation between energy and economy of a nation. I will call you on your own paradigm, sir, because you're operating from a scarcity mentality there and there's some kind of mentality. If you operate from a bundled mindset, there'll be plenty of energy to do everything we need. Okay, we're not there yet though.

47:54We'll get there. And this next breakthrough, we're talking, you know, two days ago, Satya and Natala, the CEO of the most extraordinary company on the planet, Microsoft. I mean, listen, any company that has existed for how many decades, four decades,

48:17four number one or number two on the planet, that's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. Anyway, so Satya says, today in nature, our matter -gen model represents a paradigm shift in material design, applying generative AI to create new compounds with specific properties. I'll play a soundless video just to have fun of what this looks like, but it's pretty extraordinary. extraordinary just in terms of the idea here. And I talked about this on the abundance stage with the CTO of applied materials. Applied materials, thank you. And we were talking about the notion that we understand in sort of a three -dimensional space of the types of materials, the types of crystals, the types of, of volumetric pressure and temperature.

49:19We understand how these materials function for a limited number, but there's adjacent predictability. Like if we move, if we change from this atom to this atom, what occurs? Well, given all the knowledge we have, material sciences, and I believe material science is the unsung hero of technology, right? And it's like, all of Moore's Law has made possible of my material sciences, all of molecular biology's material sciences. If we can predict new materials, in this case actually generate materials with the properties we desire, saying I want a material that reflects or refracts light in this direction.

50:08Yeah. It's a game changer. game changer massively. All right, can I say if you have a few thoughts? Yeah, please. Because I've been tracking this for a while ever since we were talking about nano -tech and materials science and molecular assembly at Singularity. Yeah. Okay. And for me, this is one of the biggest breakthroughs ever. And it was inevitable. I've been kind of waiting for when will we have an AI model to do manipulation of molecules and it looks like this might be it because... or add in the business case in crystal. Right down to that level, it's amazing, the granularity now, because there was a huge breakthrough in about 2012, 2013 with a project called the Materials Project.

50:54And what they did was they took like half a million compounds and cataloged all the electrical, chemical, and physical properties of these compounds. So if you're a battery researcher trying to think about what might be better than lithium ion, you might guest that lithium sulfur or lithium air might be better than you sequentially linearly go test that compound and see what comes. Well, that takes a long time. It's linear, right? Now you have this database. You can just literally say give me a material compound that has this voltage threshold and this thermal retention and boom, it'll give you the five that you need, but now you slowly to spit those out.

51:29But now with AI applied to that database, you could basically say give me something that gets to this endpoint and figure it out yourself. And this I think is a huge leap that I will give you. And this is a very clear indication of where AI can help us bridge that gap that we've not been able to figure out ourselves and come up with stuff. This is for me the equivalent of Alpha Fold, right? Yes. 14 folding in the material science. This is the Alpha Fold material science material science. And I think this is such a huge, huge, huge thing. I'm really thrilled to see it come up happen and come about.

52:00And when you have a company like Microsoft kind of putting the backing behind it, it'll have stain power and people will be able to rely on it. And I'm really, really excited about what will come from this. Yeah. Agreed. You know, sandbox, AQ, Jack Hittery's company has also been doing similar work using the equations of quantum physics to predict molecular properties. So I love this handle on exits at Dr. Singularity. Yes, you should have that. He says, this is huge Microsoft researchers introduced mattergen. Molecular can discover new materials tailored to specific needs, efficient solar cells or CO2 recycling, advancing progress beyond trial and error experiments.

52:47Instead of screening the candidates, it directly generates novel compounds given the prompts to design requirements. So, I mean, think about this. This is about higher efficiency solar conversion. This is about catalysts that can remove salt from water, CO2 from the atmosphere. Yeah. Yeah. So, you have one use case. I have two things come for me. This is in the extreme positive and extreme navigative. Okay? Sure. A bad guy could say, find a compound that will create the equivalent outcome of gray goo. And that causes a problem. Right. And on the positive side, imagine you throw up a figure out a crystal or some compound that we can throw up into the atmosphere that will just crystallize all the carbon and have a cascade down the earth.

53:36Right. We should be able to do this now in like minutes and figure out a way of getting it up there. And off you go, we've literally solved the climate problem. And this the implications of with this are absolutely profound. Yeah, Stephen Kotler and I are writing the next iteration of abundance from we are in 2012, we're writing Age of Abundance, which will come on in 2026. And it's extraordinary. This sort of technology begins to liberate food, water, energy, healthcare, education. Everything. And by the way, let's talk about this offline, but it came across a company that may have solved a totally workable path to molecular manufacturer.

54:21Okay. Listen, huge. What huge. So, we've talked about this nanotechnology, right? We've talked about this from Eric Drexler who wrote engines of creation that was a follow -on to some nice. Yeah, so take this screwdriver that happened to have on my desk. Okay. Okay. I'm on specific reasons. Now, imagine instead of creating the mold and then forging this piece of metal and then sticking it together, you literally by molecule by molecule assemblest thing like a few things. Adam, I know, yes. But literally at a molecular level or an atomic level, and now you can essentially create anything for about a dollar a pound, I think, was the number that Ralph Merkel threw out.

55:02And this now becomes really fascinating because you could create a computer just by the cost of the materials. Yeah, it's called computer. The big thing that blew my mind with 3D printing is that complexity is free. Throughout history, the more complex an object, the more difficult it was to make. And now with 3D printing, complexity doesn't matter because when you're talking about it, boom, boom. And customization is free. Customization and the third part around 3D printing is you can make things that couldn't be molded. You can replicate objects that couldn't be molded. but then you don't need a mode now.

55:39Richard Feynman back in 1958, wrote a very famous paper called, there's a bit, there's plenty of room at the bottom. Yeah, and then Eric Drexler, 1986, wrote, age, wrote, wrote, engine's accration. And we've been waiting for nanotechnology, which by the way, if we get to nanotechnology, where we can, Adam by Adam, repair or create, that gives us immortality without question. Infinite. I'm not. But I won't go there right now. All right. So I hope you go there in the book though. You will go in there in the book for sure. Okay, good. But I want to hear about this molecular manufacturing. I'll go ahead.

56:24Updating separately. You know, one thing I've been tracking and I put this up in the Wall Street Journal is the battle between the the large hyper scalers, the large language models. So you've got open AI, separate from Microsoft, right? Link, but separate, you've got Gemini from Google, you've got XAI, you have been throughopic. I've been just extraordinarily impressed by Google's March Forward. I don't know if you've been tracking what they've done with their latest Gemini. 1 .5 their Gemini deep research. It's incredible. It's unbelievable what this thing can do. This is the $200 monthly. Now, well, $200 a month on Chatchee PT.

57:16It's 20 bucks a month for Google. For Google that one. It's incredible that you can essentially build. We will now accelerate 1 ,000 times the amount of research and how quickly research gets done. It's going to be incredible. Just a minute. I love the time. I love on Gemini and their deep research being able to go. Okay, this is what I'm interested in. Go and please check on these and put together a thesis and write a report. And it will go off for 10 minutes to 30 minutes and build a research paper for you. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. So, I am, you know, one of the challenges with OpenAI is their battle against Elon who now in the White House.

58:03They're battle for going from a nonprofit to a for -profit. Yeah. And I don't know, you know, I still love Google since I first met Larry and Sergey back in 2004. The cards are their hearts like Jeff and like Elon and their hearts are in the right place. Yeah. Which is so you know, you had a class of billionaires 100 years ago that that were extractionary wealth. Yes. And don't you call them the techno philanthropists in the abundance group? And yeah, I talk about, I talk about, you know, Larian, Sergey, and Eric Schmidt is technically there. Yeah. I find it really incredible. If you went back, say 200 years ago, the richest people known the world had exclusively inherited their wealth and guarded it jealously, did nothing with it.

58:53And today you have people, the richest people in the world have exclusively earned their wealth and they're splashing out, changing the world with it. Jeff and Elon, and it's fantastic to see, I think it's such an important pointer to their true human nature of wanting to contribute and wanting to make a difference. And going to that MTP concept we talk about, I can't say enough about it. And it's really been impressive to watch Google catch up radically and very quickly in cert AI and everything they're doing. It's brilliant, brilliant execution. You know, I've had a chance to know Elon well over these 25 years and money never enters into the equation.

59:36It's always, can I make a better product? Can I achieve my MTP of Mars or sustainable Earth? Yeah, and it's just always about product engineering and creating an amazing product. Period. Yeah. And statement. Speaking about creating wealth, should we talk about Bitcoin? Always. Always. In case a fun conversation we always have. So our buddy, Michael Seller, is, you know, I'm jealous, right? Anytime someone can say, yeah, I just bought a thousand Bitcoin. It's been a while since I could afford to buy a thousand Bitcoin. So MicroStrategy requires 1 ,070 Bitcoin for $101 million at $94 ,000 per Bitcoin, and has achieved a BTC yield of 48 % in Q4 and 74 % in fiscal year 2024.

1:00:32Incredible. Massive. Now Michael invited me to his 100 ,000 BTC New Year's party, unfortunately I wasn't able to go, but what a great way to celebrate the year 2025. Just an amazing thing watching this happen. I'm so excited about where Bitcoin goes from here and all of the crypto stuff that's not going to happen, good and bad, right? You've got these mean coins that are exploding out of the gate within total insanity. We'll see how it happens. But I'm such a, you still have massive Bitcoin supporter and fan. I think this is the first time I heard the term Bitcoin was from you on stage at Singularity University And I'm saying what is he saying Bitcoin?

1:01:22Well, what is this thing? You know, it's like the first time I heard the term YouTube from Chad Hurley when the founders of YouTube I'm like you like with letter you tube Anyway, it was a while ago guys just to be clear So and I want to we state this right it looked for the first few years like so many attempts have been made at digital cash, digital gold that you didn't know whether this one would last or not. Because there have been many cracks at that pinata. And then about 2013, 2014, and became clear that, okay, this is here. I mean, just to show the numbers here, a year ago, Bitcoin was at $38 ,000 a Bitcoin.

1:02:01Can you imagine going back and saying, oh, it's $38 ,000 today? I mean, how much would you borrow to put into it? And then up to, up 170%. But here's what I find absolutely fascinating. Check this out. So Bitcoin versus micro strategies. So that blue line at the bottom, that looks almost flat, is actually Bitcoin over the year 2024. And what you see on that gold line, appropriately, gold and line here, is the return on micro strategies. And so here's the numbers. between January of 2024 and January of 2025, Micro Strategies has returned 693 % versus Bitcoin returning 144%. I mean, what else does there say?

1:02:55The leveraged play on Bitcoin with all of the different layers and bond instruments that Michael's engineered into it. I think this is huge. Of course, you have the downside of Bitcoin drops and you have also an accelerated drop, right? But if the umbrella thesis is that Bitcoin will go up over time, which has held for now 15 years, this is about a solid investment that you could ask for. Would you ever borrow against your Bitcoin and buy more Bitcoin? I did that. Remember that conversation we had when it was 60, and we were all expecting it. I did it at that time and I burned a third of my Bitcoin, a lost margin trading.

1:03:34So, Lily won't let me do that anymore, smartly. We found other creative ways of trying to get to the same outcome, like I've invested in ordinals, which are Bitcoin NFTs, because they're a Bitcoin base so that if the NFT goes up, you get Bitcoin. And that is a way of doing it. I think we'll see a ton more plays on Bitcoin of ways of doing it. But the core, it's too risky for me right now to do that. Well, of course, we're alive now in a White House that is pro Bitcoin. What's the go? $20 billion of Bitcoin in the national treasury? Yeah, I think that's that's bullshit if I can kind of swear a little bit because it should be here.

1:04:19It should be half and blue bird from Blueberg. Proposal of formalize a $20 billion US Bitcoin reserve. So why is it bullshit to you? I should be half a trillion. 20 building is nothing and if you look at the annual budget, it's a drop in the bucket. At least have a few percent. So because then it could make a difference. But not to diminish the monstrous shift towards crypto compared to the last 10 years of the administration. Or may pause federal crypto litigation, push agencies to review policies. Right, so I'm actually shocked we haven't seen a much greater resurgence when this came out. I think it's built in, it's priced in.

1:05:07This was the price that popped from 50 -100 with everybody going, oh, now this is all going to happen, so I believe that's all priced in. Real quick, I've been getting the most unusual compliments lately on my skin. Truth is, I use a lotion every morning and every night religiously called one skin. He was developed by four PhD women who determined a 10 amino acid sequence that is a syndolytic that kills senile cells in your skin. And this literally reverses the age of your skin. And I think it's one of the most incredible products. I use it all the time. If you're interested, check out the show notes.

1:05:45I've asked my team to link to it below. Alright, let's get back to the episode. Humanoid robots. Your favorite topic. My favorite topic. Like listen, I just think it's gonna be one of the biggest impactors on society. I don't have to walk the dog anymore. The robot can walk the dog. The doggy robot can walk the dog. So this is a company that I'm tracking. So I've been tracking now aggressively 30 of the hundred or so robot companies. And this is one that got unveiled early on out of China, out of Shenzhen called Unitry. We're going to have this company at the abundance summit showing their tech.

1:06:32They've got a humanoid robot, a couple of different dog prototype robots, and their G1 Bionic upgrade. This is a $16 ,000 robot. I mean, honestly, that's, you know, I will buy one just to have in the garage for fun, if nothing else. But check out, check out this video.

1:07:01Love the soundtrack. It feels like the 60's. Not to miss the soundtrack. Yeah.

1:07:11So this robot is running down faster than the speeding train. The rails on rocks, up hills.

1:07:23The smoothest walking human eye that is running robot in the world. The best thing is going to make me feel tall. It's only four foot inches tall. Oh. Ha ha ha.

1:07:37So we're gonna have a couple of these walking around the halls at the abundance summit. It's equipped with three light hours and this is where a multimodal AI comes in, right? Where the AI understands what it's seeing when it's being spoken to and how to respond.

1:08:03I'm going to ask my standard issues with this whole thing. Okay. I'll throw it out too. One is why the hell does it have to look humanoid when it could have three legs or four legs and do way more? I mean, that's for, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's not even much before. I know, but that's my still might, might be for this. Okay. It could be so much more. Yeah. Utilip. By the way, in the comments, tell us a line tell us a line that you agree with me that they should be humanoid robots and not have six armed four -legged robots. I want to see it on to us. I want to know it's a robot. I want to put clothes on.

1:08:41You have to think it was a human being. That would freak everybody out. I'm sorry. That's number one. That's number one. C -3 -0 and you know, and and and data. I got a six legs. We'll answer, but more flies these too much, too quickly. Okay, second thing is, you know, you're gonna have like these little glitches and he goes, somehow the robot suddenly thinks it's a cat and we can't get it down from the tree. And you're gonna have these incredibly crazy things happen and we're gonna have to deal with a hundred little things. The neighbor's gonna call you up going, can you please get the goddamn robot out of my garage?

1:09:13It's found an electrical power outlet and it's sucking all the juice out. I'm coming over to sue you. It's just gonna go rampant with this stuff. And so I think there's gonna be quite a lot of mayhem as the unintended consequences of this thing play out. What could possibly go wrong? I think so, no. But as I said before, it's gonna be a comedian's dream watching this thing. Robin Williams would go crazy with this if he was alive. Uh, let's move on. Nvidia accelerates humanoid development, right? their GROT, Groot, Blueprint allows developers to create massive data sets for training humanoid based on imitation learning.

1:10:00And so I think that's extraordinary. Like, hey, robot, watch me make my cup of coffee and make it exactly this way every time. Yeah. I think this is massive. Because not just that, it'll learn from 5 ,000 other robots making coffee and the improvement rate will be incredible. And I think this may be the area where, you know, for me, if I think back to robotics, the reason the robots are so powerful and so important in manufacturing is that when you're building a car, you could have a robot open and close a door 5 ,000 times to test the hinges and the door lock mechanism, et cetera, et cetera. And you just, we just built incredibly stable cars very quickly because you could have a robot doing all of that, right?

1:10:46And now when you have a collector, you just took a job away from my 13 -year -old son. Yeah, you've got bored in two seconds as a 13 -year -old and walk off. But now you can have 10 ,000 robots, 5 ,000 robots, all make and cup a coffee, sharing that knowledge amongst themselves and really improving the collective set. But this is again one of those platform plays lifts everything up. I think this is a huge, so excited. Yeah. Well, here's a news item for TechCrunch that Samsung expands in robotics. I think we're going to see all the major electronic manufacturers get in robotics. It is low hanging fruit for them to integrate with their world.

1:11:29I have to say that I love Samsung as a company, but your real bot design looks kind of It's not key and boring.

1:11:44All right, listen, I'm sorry. This is no optimist, no figure, not even a, a, a, a unitary. We'll see. Hey, look, it's going to a thousand flowers are going to bloom. It's, we have a Cambrian explosion of this stuff and it's going to create a huge, huge, varied set of formats in, We use cases, function capabilities, it's going to move very quickly because of that. I love this. This is Elon's prediction. We're aiming to have several thousand of these built in 2025. We're referring to the Optimus Gen 2. Initially, we'll test them out on Tesla. Then, assuming things go well, we'll build 10X that output next year.

1:12:35or aiming for 50 ,000 optimist robots in 2026. And so as many as 500 ,000 robots in three years time. And it's just, we talk about deceptive to disruptive, the doubling of small numbers. When I interviewed him in October of this past year, his prediction was 10 billion robots by 2040. And if you double 500 ,000, you know, 10 times, you'll get there pretty quickly. Pretty amazing. What do you think about 500 ,000 robots in three years' time? I think it would be great, but given the time it took from his announcement of a robot taxi to actually getting it, I would like to take this with a grain of salt.

1:13:28But the trend is the important one. Right. Yeah. It's it if it happens in three years or four years or five years it does matter It's gonna happen and when it does it's going to be it's gonna be a game changer at so many different levels Agreed agreed Let's turn the conversation in a different direction to close this out today Which is a buddy you just took part in something that is not technical But it is powerful And that was your father's passing. And I think you had an experience that is worth sharing. It's not technology guys, so, but it is extraordinarily deeply meaningful. So, Selene, share.

1:14:18So my 97 -year -old father who lived alone and drove around until a few months ago, had an assisted death procedure up in Canada. and the process was, you know, you be associated death with grief and loss and pain and suffering and whatever. It's all negative, right? Except what I experienced with him was the most joyous and ecstatic and blissful experience I could possibly imagine. If I go out with one tenth of the ecstasy he had, I'll be very happy. He was in like total, total bliss. And when the procedure finished, I was sitting there kind of stunned. And he had a couple of days to say goodbye to everybody.

1:15:02We timed it. We paid Beethoven's Dines Symphony from, which was his favorite piece of music at the end, and he passed on. And I said to the doctor, I said, I don't know how to process this. He was so happy. You know, have you seen that? Because you've done this process. And she said, sir, you have no idea. Most people that go through this assisted death process, go out in that state because they have agency that you can die with dignity and you can time it and you have a ski can manage a schedule and it really really shook me in a positive sense and I think we have to rethink this as a as a society because it couldn't have been more peaceful, happy, blissful, ecstatic.

1:15:46He literally was like in a medicine ceremony, a plant medicine and so many. And it was kind of incredible. I'm sitting there and it's not been two weeks. And I'm like, I should feel grief and loss. But I don't because he was so happy. And so I don't know how to process this. I'm writing a blog post about this that we'll put out about how this, I think this is a transformative thing that we should make available to a much, much wider group of people. Yeah. And it's got a stigma here in the United States everywhere. Everywhere, are usually through religious structures that try and keep a personal life forever, right?

1:16:21And my father was very clear. He goes, I do not want to be at burden to society or to the family or to the healthcare system. And it was really kind of an incredibly beautiful experience. Amazing. This is completely opposite from what I speak about normally, which is using technology to extend your life, not end your life. Yeah. Yeah. So good. No. And you He was a profound atheist his whole life. In the last two days, as you were saying goodbye to people, he was like, see you on the other side. And I was like, wait, what? What are you seeing? That what are you sensing? I was like, he was late for a meeting and he had to get there.

1:16:57He was like, get me out of here. He said that he had a palliative care doctor, Coveett. And the fellow said, I'm here to make you more comfortable. And my dad said, do you hear to help me die? And he said, no, no, no, just making you more comfortable. And he said, well, then you're of no use to me. That's a real bringing the doctor that's going to give me the procedure or, you know, why are you here even? It was just amazing. It was so crazy. We had a little more else service with my family just talking through the different experiences with him. It was kind of the most amazing line he ever gave me was I did this talk ages ago called fixing civilization.

1:17:32And he said totally disagree with your talk. A minor title. Well, niche effort. And his, he said, the problem is not with the fixing part. It's with the civilization part where we operate as apes and tribal clans with more and more powerful weapons killing each other. We've materialized the world. We have yet to civilize the world. And it was like one of the biggest wisdom bombs from the elders I could have ever had. It's beautiful. I love you, buddy. It's a beautiful way to close this conversation. It could not have been any more beautiful. Yeah. Anyway, I am thankful for your dad giving the world you.

1:18:14And thank you, my friend. I'll see you in our next episode of WTF, just happen in tech. And guys, if you enjoy this conversation with Sleeman, I let us know. You can subscribe. You can tell us what you want us to cover in the show notes. We do pay attention, and we're grateful for you. And tell us who you think is right or wrong in the comments on some of our disagreement. Yeah, I tell them, please let's leave no that he's wrong. All right. But to say follow sleeve in, in EXO, EXO universe, what's the, what's the, it's open the exo, open the exo .com. Thank you. I should know that by now. I shouldn't die.

1:18:56Well, it's close to open AI .com where we are opening EXOs. So our mission is to create as many exponential organizations in the world as possible. Yeah, fantastic. And check us out at abundance360 .com. Anyway, love you brother. Be well. You too.