The Tech That Will Prevent and Reverse Chronic Disease w/ Naveen Jain & Guru Banavar | EP #71

29:36It's made 10 days ago So it literally just what you need nothing that you don't so So what I love about what I love about you done and I mean full disclosure my venture fund bold capital is an investor at every stage we're on the board of IOM and it's because I care about the company I care about you as an incredible moonshot entrepreneur and and someone who I care about deeply but I want those listening to to realize the journey you've been on in building building the components one at a time, building the brand, building the adjacencies, right, because and asking that what if question over and over and over again.

30:20And so understanding RNA and understanding first in the stool, but saying that's not enough, we now need to look at the oral microbiome and look at the blood and get a full picture. And once we have that full picture, when we start to understand what it is that is in dysbiosis or dis -ease, as you said, what can we provide to you and what you get on the app? And I've been to user. I probably it's time for me to do my next quarterly check -up in the total body intelligence here. But it's like, these are the foods you should eat. You know, the green light foods. This is yellow. This is red. This is what you should not eat.

31:02and then here's the supplements. And so, and I think one of the things that's important in health, and like I talk about this in fountain and in other companies, is the, is your constantly fine tuning, your body's always adopting and changing. And so this, this iterative cycle of fine tuning it, and making sure you understand, you know, I think the AI element of this has really... It's phenomenal. We were just about to get out of one of the only one more thing here about as an entrepreneur, the billions of what we did was we were moving towards our goal, but to get there, we couldn't have gotten there on day one.

31:45So this is really setting up the underlying framework and the data, right? Now, ultimate goal was to be able to diagnose the disease early, to be able to cure them by having the intervention. So we did supplements And then we say look we don't know how to adjust oral microbiome. So now we launch guess what the oral biotic speeder Right, so we just call now look at the name we are X volume prescription for your oral microbiome Personalize toothpaste to adjust your oral microbiome the reason we are doing it is to understand what is working and what is not working And when we make a particular change Does it change the disease or not?

32:27So now I don't want to say this but you understand now we are able to do the human clinical trial. Understanding the changes that are happening. So we say look These people have this thing and if we change this we believe the disease should go away and we change it and God when they do the test and we say look the symptoms are gone. Now we're not preventing any disease We are not curing any disease. We are not making any claims of doing it. But now we have a part of what changes using these Nutrition elements now based on all this data we collected then we utilize AI and then I want guru to explain the Billions of what he did is he's able to now look at all this data and say no, you know what?

33:13I mean we are able to detect stage one cancer in your mouth or throat This is so good we should take it to FDA and then we took to FDA FDA say this is such a breakthrough we received a breakthrough device designation from FDA for detecting the oral cancer and throat cancer for stage one cancer at 95 % specificity and 90 % sensitivity and Peter here's what I'm gonna ask you That's amazing. Yeah, here to think in 21st century Peter we can land on Mars and you know how we detect our cancer, your dentist rubs the finger on your gum, says I don't feel anything. So you're feeling the cancer in the 21st century is a standard of care.

34:00Yeah, no, it's pretty sad. So Guru, talk about how this data and the analysis and the feedback loop to actually know that that you're, what you're reporting, what you're finding is validated. Talk about that. Yeah. So, I have a concept in my head which I'd like to convey to your listeners, which is the concept of a digital twin. So imagine that every single person on the planet has a digital representation, which is kind of like a model of their biology. And it's not just, you know, one model, it's actually a collection of many models. You know, there's a model of what is going on in your mouth.

34:45There's a model of what's going on in your gut. In fact, there's many models, many algorithms that together forms a twin of you, Peter. Guru, before you got born, our Peter did that 15 years ago and he started a company that whole idea was to create a digital twin. So, my point is this is a biological, is this a biological digital twin? And if yes, I would like to know how far you come so far because I'm going to make the point that we've come the farthest actually presenting next week in a conference at the digital twin community in the US. And I would make the point that you cannot do a digital twin unless you get to the dynamic part of the biology, which is what you can get with RNA.

35:30So now I believe we have a digital twin and without a digital twin we would not be able to predict, I can ask the question, what is the glycemic response of Peter's digital twin to a piece of bread? Bless you. Thank you. To a banana, to a rice pudding, right? So I can ask all of these questions of the digital twin and I get back answers because I know what your digital You know, RNA expression is not only of the human cells, but also of the microbial cells. Number one, number two, I can then create these risk profiles. I can say, what is the risk of Peter to get diabetes down the road? What is the risk for Peter to end up with, you know, let's say, colon polyps?

36:21Or whatever else? I can ask all of these questions on the digital twin because I know what the dynamic biology is doing today. I can fast forward that or I can look at very large populations. I can ask these questions. That's number two. Number three, we can say what might happen to the digital twin if we were inter, you know, if you're providing an intervention and adding supplement A, B or C. What if I add more mutate? What if I add more anti -inflammatory or anti - you name it? So anti -insulin type of ingredients. Then I can see what's going on. So this is the point about experimentation. So when you have a digital twin that is true to the real person, then you can run these experiments digitally, figure out what's likely to work and then you can feed that back into the actual person.

37:22So those are the kinds of concepts that we've built. I get it, but there's another part which is super important that I really want to make sure is understood. It's the fact that when you have someone on the volume system providing the speedotypic data, asking these questionnaires and then taking the full body intelligence and then modifying their diet and then WashRinse repeat, you're getting a lot of closed loop data here. That's what I mean by experiments, yes. Which, and that longitudinal data is so fundamentally. So how many, how many members have gone through this so far, Navine, and how many, you know, longitudinal, how much longitudinal data do you have?

38:06Because that's got to be fine tuning the system. massive. So we have analyzed over 600 ,000 samples, collecting at 52 .55 quadrilion and there is a massive amount of longitudinal data from these people and we have in fact shown that when we tell you this is what your biological score is, in fact it is true. So in fact we do every time we do we reverse we do two things. If we tell you, for example, your butrate pathway is this and next time you say, hey, now this has gotten better or worse, then we should be able to say what other symptoms would have changed if it got better and we prove it. So we have proven that when we say your butrate score is high, that means lot of these symptoms should go down that would actually be impacted with a high butrate.

38:58And if they don't match, we say, look our algorithm is wrong, right? Same thing we do in terms of longitudinal data, then we say, hey, do these scores actually improve when we give them these nutrition? And Guru, if you, I don't know if it's okay to show slides or not, but unbelievable that in three to six months. Let me hit on a couple of points first. And that is someone who's used Vioam two years ago, right? And got data and said, okay, the day it did or didn't work for me, the food recommended didn't change or whatever. The system is is brand new right now, right? In other words, the system is constantly updating the more data you get, the more accurate it is.

39:46And so, and so, I like, how long has the whole body intelligence element been there? How long has that been? Yes, about two years. Two years. years. And then how often are the algorithms being updated? What do you say to somebody who was like, well, I tried a couple years ago, why should they try it again now? For two reasons, Peter. Number one thing is remember, we start with the end of millions to apply that to your biology based on the ecosystem, what we know, that based on other patterns, what should work for you. And then we go NF1. See, see, what's working on what's not working? Keep fine -tuning it for you.

40:32So the point is, even if it did not work for you two years ago, remember, first of all, we now have 10x more data points. So it may work. And secondly, by constantly allowing us to fine -tune, we are able to make it work just for you. So we say, oh, you know, our algorithms say that your butri should have been high and your I mean polyamine production was this and your production for butri's and was this you should have this should have worked But something about you did not work. Oh because we were not taking into account the LPS or the fledgler assembly Great now. We figured it out now. We apply that to everyone.

41:10So every Yes, we are constantly because yeah, so we can't be learning and we are also constantly running clinical studies. We are studying, we are doing studies with external populations, we are clinically validating it, we are incorporating the results back into our system and we are retraining our algorithms based on the learning from this clinical study. So it's happening multiple times every every year. You know, I'm super passionate about longevity and health span and how do you add 10, 20 health years on to your life. One of the most under -appreciated elements is the quality of your sleep.

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43:02It's transformed my sleep and will for you as well. Now back to the episode. So one of the things I've been so impressed by is the science, the science, the science, the publications, the work that you've done beyond just proving it to yourself, but going into peer review journals and getting FDA approval. Can you talk a little about the areas that you've been publishing in and the work that you've achieved and where you're going after FDA approvals. Let me take that. So the very first foundation was in the glycemic response area, Peter. And so all of the sugar response stuff, starting with just for foods and for supplements, but also for diabetic and pre -dibiotic situations.

43:52Then we went into a number of microbiome pathways. So we looked at the oxalate, the butorate, and the putricine pathways and so on. So we have a bunch of signs around that. Then we went into diagnostic biomarker. So we talked about the cancer biomarker, but we also have other biomarkers for IBD. We have it for every disease in the spectrum of the mouth like dysplasia, periodontitis and so on. For the gut, we have IBS. We have the precursors of coloital cancer, all of the full spectrum of all the things that happens in the gut And now we're getting to metabolic disease, we're getting into non -alcoholic fatty liver disease We're getting into autoimmune type diseases like rheumatoid arthritis and so on So we have these biomarkers and we have one by one we are publishing those and then finally we are doing this big Systems biology view of biological aging right knowing everything we know about you talked about them in this dynamic biology, digital twin of yours, we can ask the question, what is the correct way of thinking about this biological human being, which is what is the age of this person, and we have developed these models, we've just published it in iScience, and we'll continue to do this across the board.

45:11Navin, where are you going next with Vion? What is the next element of your moonshot here? or is it cancer detection throughout the GI track? Is it age reversal? Is it handling of all chronic diseases? Can you give me a sense of what you think is possible as you gather this data? So first of all Peter, you know, it was a consumer business is first of all is our way of getting to a person who has suffered so much from our current medical industrial complex. Because whether, you know, again, I'm not saying that people in the medical and industrial complex are bad people, but the incentives are not aligned with the human eye.

45:55It's insane. It is. I think my mission has been, I want to crush and reinvent healthcare and education. Both systems have misaligned in ten years. Absolutely. And I think, Peter, one of the things is that imagine no other industry benefits from keeping, is making you suffer, right? So in medical industrial complex, they only make money when you and I are sick. So your doctor makes money when you and I are sick. The hospital makes money when you and I are sick. Farmers, surgical company and no one makes money when we are healthy. Right. And the person who really wants to be healthy is the person who is suffering.

46:31So our thinking was why not go to the consumer. And this is by the Clinton Christians, instead of the same thing, you do not want to go head on with the system. You want to go around the system to the people. So we did the D2C to show people that they can actually become the CEO of their own health and Empowering them and they go to the doctor and say hey doctor. Can you explain to me this? Why aren't you doing something about this? So really creating that consumer push ask your doctor, right? So then doctor calls us and say what the hell is going on? How do I? How can I be part of this right?

47:06So our goal really is to do and then using food as a medicine both nutritional and otherwise and continue to personalize the product for you. So we did the thing for gut. We did the thing now for oral microbiome. So you oral lozanzis personalized toothpaste. It's skin microbiome. We are able to personalize skin cream for each individual. It's scalp microbiome. We can personalize the shampoo and conditioner for each individual. So really looking at personalization is one. But our ultimate goal really is find hard to detect diseases in the early stages while they are still extremely curable. And so we're really looking after the disease is that really have not been detected early, right?

47:49So the things that we went after oral cancer and throat cancer was because these are detected in stage three, stage four. And I say to say that a lot of these pan cancer tests that are out there and it's a great first step. But the problem is when you're looking for cell -free DNA like whether it is free, no more whether you looking at the grail. In stage one, they are just not enough self -redeionate stage one. So they get really, really good in stage three, stage four, but even for grail that stage one sensitivity is by the stage one sensitivity is 24 .1 % an average. That tells you something that when you get the negative result, it doesn't really mean much.

48:27And that's a fundamental problem we set out to solve because your RNA changes. Even before you develop a cancer, You can see in dysplasia, you can all like a pleasure something is changing in our any that is going to become a stage one cancer Right, so our goal is to look at cancer is obviously detecting them early and Peter I hate to say that this was driven. I lost my own dad to pancreatic cancer and today's Brutal disease and it's not detected in early stage and we are absolutely committed to solving this problem for everyone else. Nash Neffel is never detected in early stage, right? El Sima is really detected in early stage.

49:09Can we develop a early stage molecular biomarkers? Not someone's feeling, but early stage molecular violence. And that's really where we're going. And then using both the food intervention or working with our partners in the pharmaceutical companies to develop a vaccine or a drug to actually solve and cure the disease, not maintain or simply maintain the, suppress the symptom and maintain the disease. I am curious. You're a strict, are you vegan or vegetarian? Mostly vegan, I would say. Mostly vegan. And there's a debate constantly about whether I should be on a keto diet or a of vegetarian or vegan diet and so forth.

49:54If anybody's got enough data to talk about the impacts of one extreme or the other, it would be vioam. So what are you seeing? Well, first of all Peter, what we see is not what you wanna hear. What we see is all extreme or anything. Tell me. None of the extreme diets are good for you. So in fact, a keto diet ages you faster than anything else. Right? value diet does the same thing. And just because you're on a vegan diet, doesn't mean you are having healthy food. Almost all the poison comes from plant. All the drugs come from plant. The spinach may or may not be good for you. So fundamentally, the goal is to personalize to you.

50:37Just because it's worked for your wife or your neighbor doesn't mean it's going to work for you. I can't stress that enough, right? It's like these, all these diet books. I mean, I mean, I probably, there's more diet books printed than any other category of book out there. And it's one to many, they generalize this. But there are a few things that we know, right? Whole plants are important, minimizing sugar is important. But I sort of stick to a Mediterranean diet as best as I can. And I think Peter, it's not just Mediterranean diet. So there are some foods that are bad for everyone. So process foods are bad for everyone.

51:14They are sugar that's bad for everyone, but there is no such thing as universal healthy food There's a universal unhealthy food, but guess what some people is finished is going to call problem if they're not able to digest Oxley if they're gonna have a you know, turmeric can harm them. They have high bile acid, right? So point is you have to now you can hyper personalize for each individual and it's not just This is what I mean. I mean, yeah. If you don't mind, I wanna also say that it's, the same food can be bad for you one day and good for you six months later. And so on. So even for the same individual, you need to know when it's okay for you or good for you and it's actually desirable for you.

51:56So you wanna keep, you know, just like you're exercising and you know how you can handle, you know, various kinds of physical stress, you wanna be able to test yourself and know what you can eat on any given day. You know, I can't wait for Jarvis. I'm an Iron Man fan and Jarvis is my favorite vision of a copilot where it's through the day, it's been measuring everything on my body, in my body. And it's saying, no, stay away from that food, eat that food over there. And it brings, it closes the loop from a quarterly testing to constant testing. And we'll get there. We'll get there. So, Peter, actually, did you see the last movie that was his active visual home movie?

52:35There's in fact, they talked about Wyoming that movie. The literally says, good morning, Peter, you, everything is fine. We just, that you gut intelligence tests, you are, all of your food that you're eating are good. That's great. I love it. I do, do love that. So here's another question for you. You know, one of the challenges, of course, of measuring your full GI intelligence here is that you're measuring your stool sample, mostly from the large intestine and not from the upper intestine or stomach and so forth. So what do you, you know, is there an issue there of not being able to get the, you know, samples from the doggone and so forth?

53:21And answer to Peter is if we could do everything we should, but the point is we're trying to see if you can look at the top of the tube by looking at the auto microbiome. And in general, you we swallow about one and half liter of saliva in our stomach every day. Most of the time, these things will die in the stomach because of acidity. Unfortunately, too many of us are taking the anti acid drug like nexium. And now as you age, your hydrofark acid level goes down and you're not killing your oral microbiome. What happens when that happens? So, Peter some of these oral microbiome end up settling in your gut where they don't belong and for example, it's very a fuseobacterium nucleotum is an oral microbiome.

54:08When it settles in the gut, it's some of the convinced activity becomes high when it's to start to express some of the toxins like FAP2 or FDA2, then suddenly it starts to call cause inflammation in the gut. And that is IBS, IBD and colorectal cancer. Number one cause for colorectal cancer is a huge of activity later. You know, I just want to point out that that Naveen doesn't have a medical degree, but he probably knows more about medicine than I do at this point. You know, I keep on saying Naveen, you know, I've got international spacial diversity and singularity and if I could issue a medical degree I would give one to you, but I'm just blown away by what you learn.

54:53I want to just turn the subject slightly for a moment because listening to this obviously are a lot of individuals interested in their health and their longevity, but a lot of entrepreneurs looking to build successful B2C companies, consumer facing companies, what's your advice for an entrepreneur looking to build to a consumer facing company, what did you learn through this process? So I think Peter, one of the things that a lot of entrepreneurs go wrong is they start to focus on what would generate the most amount of revenue. And I think what I realized was if you focus on what would make the person better.

55:32That means making money is a byproduct of doing things that actually improve people's life. That means focus on what will improve your customers life every single day. And if you stay focused on that rather than trying to make it with bugs, you can create an amazingly great company. So we constantly focus on, would it actually improve people's lives? Would it actually improve their symptoms? Would they actually feel better? We do more survey on our customers than anyone else. Are they actually getting better? In fact, we published them on our webpage 84 % of the people tell us they're more than one of their symptoms actually got better which is to me is mind boggling these that people come to us and say this is what I came to why I'm for and they got better if not we want to understand what is it that we did not do right to make it better right so to me in the healthcare especially you have only one shot at making sure people trust you so in any business you can get away with lot more things in healthcare business, you have to build the trust that you're doing the right things by death, right?

56:38And you're going to still make mistakes, as you say, the things that we knew two years ago are different than we know today. So we could only make the decision based on based on the data we have at that point. As the new science is coming along, we ingest we did 20 ,000 latest research into our things, right? So as a new research comes out, we integrate that into our algorithm. No human being, no doctor would ever do that. Are AI -gun. I like to joke and say, listen, there were 5 ,000 medical articles printed or published in journals this morning. How many is your doctor read today? And that's literally the point is that, so to me, building your AI assistant.

57:18That's right. And I really think Peter, what I think use, and I want to acknowledge this, this company would not exist, but for you, Peter. I mean, watching, learning from you, learning what actually the human longevity actually this would have been their mission they set out to solve this problem and not going to go and you know saying but this is when I became the customer and you know I paid $50 ,000 we were super excited about solving this problem around longevity and we realized that it wasn't actually living up to it is potential we say you know what this problem is what solving and we're going to go out and solve this problem right and to me your encouragement and then as you see we have we have been friends for two decades now.

58:04I think you have had more influence on my life or more influence on our children's life than any living individual right. Thank you buddy. Uncle is doing unbelievable things thanks to you Priyanka is running a women's health company thanks to you I mean I need I mean you took all three of them under your wings and I want to acknowledge you how much I think you and a new, your DNA and your home and your tutelage had a lot to do with it. I was blessed to be able to mentor your three kids. And I really, one of the things I find a blessing is to share your thinking with the entrepreneurs here who are listening because you go deep and one of the you're a passion -driven individual.

58:56I mean you wake up with this in the morning and it carries you through the night and you're monomychal on this which is extraordinary. Which one it takes? This is literally what it takes and if someday if I could give you one advice that would be that. Focus. Focus on one thing that you're willing to dedicate your life to for the next 10, 15 years, dedicate your life to solving that one single problem that you wake up in the morning thinking about it, you know, go to sleep thinking about it, and you jump out of the bed every morning. Oh, I do jump out of bed. I do jump out of bed. What time do you get up in the morning?

59:34I was up in 4am. 4am, I was up at 5 .30. I was I was slacking in that. And what time do you go to sleep, pal? And not in the latest by night. No, yeah, and we've talked about sleep on and all of the elements and people don't realize the sleep is all about getting the quality of sleep and I think if may have few minutes here I could tell you that for me that longevity so just like the hierarchy of needs I have come up with this hierarchy of needs for longevity and there are five parts to it right one is nutrition Without proper nutrition, nothing matter. This is the base. You can have a Ferrari and you don't put the right fuel on your Ferrari.

1:00:18It is just not going to drive well. Once you get the nutrition right, the second thing you have to do is reduce the stress in your body. And here is what people don't understand. When you have a stress, your body is into fight -or -flight response. And when your body in the fight -or -flight response, you've all the non -essential system that body thinks are non -essential shut down. So your digestive system shuts down. Your immune system shuts down and that's the reason people who are stressed get sick more often. So what we do, some of us will say let's do the prayer before we eat. Let's go do the gratitude before we eat and the reason is so your body moves away from a sympathetic mode to pair a sympathetic mode so you can digest your food, right?

1:00:59But point is you have to fundamentally get rid of the stress. Stress was only when we evolved, was only when we were being chased by a tiger. And at that point, body says, look, you don't need to worry about digesting your food because you're going to be lunch for someone else. And that's the reason it does that. So to me, now we live in a society where the constant stress at work, your boss stresses you out. Sometimes when you go home, your spouse stresses you out, right? So we got to find a way to reduce that stress in your life. The third really is exercise. And I cannot emphasize, I'm not talking about you and I becoming a gym rat and pumping iron.

1:01:40But what I'm talking about is taking 60 minutes every single day to do both fast walking and building muscle. They just know alternative. You got to do some strength training and you got to do some movement. whether it is walking fast for 30 minutes, 45 minutes and getting it 20 minutes off. Even a body weight muscle training but you got to do that at least four, five times a day if you cannot get all seven days in a week, right? The fourth part is sleep and again the quantity of sleep is important but not as important as the quality of sleep. So even though I sometimes I get six hours of sleep, but I have managed to get two hours of REM sleep and two hours of deep sleep and I wake up really, really fresh.

1:02:31So it's really that is what you need to focus on is how much of REM sleep and deep sleep can you get. And what I found Peter, even if I take two sips of alcohol in the evening, my sleep is posted. If I eat after six period, my sleep is toasty, right? And so I tend to at least get three hours before eat no eating with three hours before I go to sleep. And these are the things and you need to figure out for yourself by measuring you know what is going on in your sleep. So I have Peter I use eight sleep I use orary I use also have a withings thing underneath me. I want to imagine my sleep every possible ways.

1:03:09I do the same. The fifth one is purpose. Finding the purpose in your life. People who live a life of purpose tend to live 10 to 15 years longer than the people who have no purpose. And finding your MTP as Peter would say, if you have not done that, that's the first thing because that will allow you to live longer, healthier and actually push the humanity forward. That will bring the joy in you, that will reduce your stress. And if you can't find your MTP, Peter, if I may say so, there is no better place than go to abundance and joint -peaters abundance thing and come on back. Peter, I have benefited more from that and a platinum trip.

1:03:51Taking your children, not just yourself, take your spouse and take your family, having those conversations at dinner so you don't sound like an alien when you have those conversations. People that you collect with, so you are able to have intellectual discussion. Even with Neal, Peter, I sit down with Neal and I explain what I'm doing and And he would say, but Dad, you forgot to look at this peptide. That is the conversation you want to have. It's a beautiful conversation. I would like everyone who's listening to it to take their themselves, their spouse and children to abundance and platinum.

1:04:26There is no better way to actually educate yourself, find your purpose and do something about it. Thank you, buddy. I do appreciate it. Abundance 360 comes from my heart. And it's an amazing, amazing community. It's the highest level for singularity university. I'd like to spend a little bit more about the platinum flip as well, because I know I'm going to be speaking there in the next few days into a couple of weeks. Oh, yes. That is another unbelievable proof. Yeah, well, it's not for everybody, but it's amazing. Every year I take 80 people, 40 in September and 40 in October. We go to the West Coast one year, to the East Coast the next year.

1:05:06we visit the top 50 scientists, entrepreneurs, CEOs, who focused on extending the human lifespan. This year we're in Cambridge in Boston, New Hampshire with Dean Kamehman and New York. Next September and October, we'll be doing the trip in San Diego and San Francisco. Yeah, and that's the platinum longevity trip. I mean, I believe people, anyone who can actually do that, I would say highly recommend they go there with their children and spouse. Everybody want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that's very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love.

1:05:44Companies called Fountain Life and it's company I starred years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented physicians. You know, most of us don't actually know what's going on inside our body. We're all optimists. Until that day when you have a pain in your side, you go to the physician and they burn and they say, listen, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have this stage three or four going on. And, you know, it didn't start that morning. It probably was a problem that's been going on for some time, but because we never look, we don't find out. So what we built at Fountain Life was the world's most advanced diagnostic centers.

1:06:22We have four across the US today, and we're building 20 around the world. These centers give you a full body MRI, a brain, a brain vasculature, an AI -nabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque, dexascan, a grail blood cancer test, a full executive blood workup. It's the most advanced workup you'll ever receive. 150 gigabytes of data that then go to our AIs and our physicians to find any disease at the very beginning. When it's solvable, you're going to find out eventually. Myzl will find out when you can take action. Found Life also has an entire side of therapeutics. We look around the world for the most advanced therapeutics that can add 10, 20 healthy years to your life.

1:07:06And we provide them to you at our centers. So if this is of interest to you, please go and check it out. Go to fountainlife .com, backslashpeter. When Tony and I wrote our New York Times bestseller, Life Force, we had 30 ,000 people reached out to us for Found Life memberships. If you go to foundlifed .com, backslashpeter will put you to the top of the list. Really it's something that is for me one of the most important things I offer my entire family, the CEOs of my companies, my friends. It's a chance to really add decades onto our healthy life spans. Go to foundlifed .com, backslashpeter. It's one of the most important things I can offer to you if one of my listeners.

1:07:53Alright, let's go back to our episode. So, Paul, and Guru, I want to dive into the future five to 10 years from now. I'd like to shift the conversation because I'm in the middle of writing my next book, Scaling Abundance. It's the follow on from my first book, Abundance 10 years ago. What a great book, you know, what a great book. Thank you. I loved it. And the story's gotten so much stronger. And I'm in the midst right now of writing the chapter about AI human collaboration in different areas and in particular medicine. And I mean, chat GPT passing the US Medical Licensing Exam last February was like amazing.

1:08:37And it's gotten even more amazing. But I'd like to dive five to ten years from now. It's talking a little bit about what you imagine is going to be possible. So what is medicine and healthcare going to look like? It's non -linear, it's not just doing more of what we got right now. There's going to be some reinventions. Guru, do you want to take a second? What's a vision? Are we going to have doctors? Are, you know, is you're, I'm guessing your AI is going to be your diagnostician. AI -driven robotics will become your surgeon. We're going to be constantly updating you on, you know, Peter, you've got 30 minutes in your schedule, you know, drop and give me 50 push -ups or stay away from that, you know, that Apple Pie in front of you.

1:09:29Give me some concrete examples of what you see coming and possibly when. Yeah, you know what my dream is that we are going to have an angel on our shoulder who is always sort of whispering in your ear and Saying what is the right thing to do at every point in time where you have to make a decision? You know what you want to eat where you know how much you want to walk or not walk you how much you know how you're sleeping Etc. All of those five things that the video is talking about you know don't get stressed You know because of that conversation do this you know in order to de -stress right? So imagine an angel on your shoulder or since we have so much integration, somebody speaking through your headphones or maybe a neural chip or some kind of...

1:10:25Actually, I want to go step further here. I really think it will change your brain, Peter. So you won't even want it. I mean, the fundamental thing is what we are learning that even what's surprising Peter, I don't know if you saw the latest research that came out on GLP1, it is actually reducing the people's desire to drink alcohol, the addiction. So think about it. They're able to fundamentally change the addiction. So what if that thing is constantly not only reminding you but changing your brain to say, I don't want sugar, it makes me sick. I'm not going to eat this because it's making me sick.

1:11:02And every part, everything around you is going to be collecting data. Your mirror is going to be collecting data. You're toilet, you tiles, you wake up, it knows what time you woke up, it's analyzing your sweat. It knowing exactly the way you are walking, you say, Peter, looks to me, you're not feeling well. The way you speak, you're voicing, being analyzed everywhere. we are literally all these data is being collected. It will automatically order the food for you and you refrigerate a based on what is good for you. Yeah, let me just make sure that again, we don't get stuck with the external factors, right?

1:11:35I wanna go deep into the biology, right? I think we need to be measuring what's going on in the biological processes within a body, which means that we are gonna have a variety of, you know, think of it as nanobots if you will, right? We already today have, you know, CRISPR -based machines that are doing making changes within your body, but I mean maybe not 10 years, maybe in 20 years, I definitely think that we will be able to have molecular machines. That will be able to do. Yeah, I actually, on this upcoming platinum trip, we're going to see out of the media lab an amazing entrepreneur has built these, these, their subcellular machines are smaller in the red blood cell that can go and implant themselves along the arterial system, the brain, and can polarize and depolarize can go to different tissues.

1:12:28And so they're here. They're just not evenly distributed yet. I agree. And you know, today in Wyoming are just measuring the, you know, let's call them the non -invasive samples. But you know, in some way, if we can demonstrate the safety of these molecular machines, I think we can get the deepest possible insight into the biology internally. And of course, all the external factors that we all know we can gather data. And that's the only way that you can get the systems biology picture of the world, right? And one last thing I want to also mention is Peter, one of your recent emails talked about experimentation.

1:13:05I just want to, you know, shout out that the reason experimentation is so important is because we need to get to the causality, right? AI has for very, very long including the latest generation, generative AI and so on, right? They're mostly statistical machines which are looking at correlation, but we need to get past that, we need to get to causation. The only way we can do that is by experimenting with biology and with experimenting with behavior and so on and so forth. So the next generation of AI has to focus on causality. That's really the transformation that has to happen within the theme, so to speak.

1:13:43A guru, since we're there, what's your opinion about when we will reach or exceed human level AI? I'm taking a poll these days on all the AI experts I'm speaking to. Do you have an opinion on that? I definitely do. I give the stock about, you know, called the 100 years of vicissitude, which is I traced the path from 1950 to 2050 and I decided to start in 1950 because that was when Turing first put out the Turing test, right? And I picked 2050 because I think there is a 50 % chance of getting to human level AI by 2050. That's my current position. Okay, so you know, he's an expert. I think he's too pessimistic.

1:14:34I think he's an expert. Someone who can tell you exactly how something can't be done. Naveen, are you in the Ray Kurzweil camp of 2029 or the Elon camp of 2027? So I think honestly, it is, I think it may be too soon there, but by 2035, I really believe we get there. So the next 10 to 12 years, we really, really get to the human level AI. And maybe in 2045, we get to the, you know, a much... So what happens to, so right now I did this, I looked at this other day, I said, how many years has it taken to become a specialist? It's about, about 16 years become a medical specialist between college, medical school, internship, residency, fellowship, and it can cost you, you know, anywhere between a half a million to a million dollars in educational fees, it's a lot.

1:15:24What's gonna happen to medical professionals and nurses and the healthcare coaches a decade from now when we've got human level AI, and it's a better, isn't a better doctor than your doctor? What do you think? The answer is, from a technically, there's no doubt in my mind, because no humans has a processing power to address, you know, to read 52 quadrillion biological data. And they just can't, they can't read 5 ,000 research papers every day, and AI can't. So technically it is going to be there. The question you still have to ask yourself is in terms of human evolution, it can technology be there, yes, but would humans evolve to actually trust that and be able to have a same feeling of trust and empathy that they would have from other human beings?

1:16:14So I think the evolution of humanity, which is our wet body, I don't think is gonna keep up with the technology and the nurses and the doctors and the health coaches that are going to become that person who are going to be able to give you that comfort touch you on your back and say Peter you're going to be okay. I have the right plan for you. But are we going to invest a million dollars and 15 years to be coached by AI? They help coaches. They become primarily health coaches driven by AI. So they're going to take the AI and they're going to actually become the 3D hologram that are biological body trust, right?

1:16:56So in some sense we need another person because we as humans are not going to evolve fast enough to trust something that we can't see or know and not look into their eyes in the same way that we do in person's eyes. So I think it's really a question of biological evolution rather than technological evolution, if you know what I mean. I will assist aside, I think it's a side of evolution and psychological evolution, right? I mean, there is a point at which, you know, I joke about this that in the, you know, if you need a surgeon today, there's one question you ask when you're interviewing surgeons.

1:17:33You know what it is, Navine, don't you? How many times did you do the surgery this morning? So the frequency with which a surgeon has done a particular kind of surgery and appendectomy, the umitral heart developed is how, because they've seen so many different variations of that. But there will be a point in the future where AI -driven robots are doing those surgeries. And of course, if there's a million robots out there doing surgeries, if one robot sees a particular case that has all the robots learn from it. And so there will be a point when if you need a surgery and you're in the hospital and you see that human surgeon walking towards you, you're gonna go, oh no, no, no, I do not want that human touching me.

1:18:13I want the robot that's done it a million times this morning. But you may want that person to walk in and say, hey, that robot is updated as of the last nanosecond with all the latest information. That may be something you may want to hear. Sure. Sure. So I do believe that medicine is going to become massively transformed. I also think just like Google for the poorest child and the wealthiest child in the planet is identical. It's not a little bit better for Larry Page's kids, right? It's the same. And I do think we have the ability to massively demonetize and democratize health care, where health care for the poorest child and the wealthiest child is the same.

1:18:55Do you agree with that? I think it's going to, I mean, once it moves into preventative, right? Then, you know, health care as, you know, as we think of it today is just, it's just not going to exist in most ways. You know, we want people to be in the, you know, you'd not be going to the surgeon's operating room, you know, as often as we could, we would go today, right? Good lesson and lesser to the point of going to the zero. We need if you do, because people do stupid things, and I think we as humans would continue to do stupid things, like driving our own cars and getting hit ourselves. Yeah, I get lesser and lesser, right?

1:19:29The point is that, you know, you want to keep people in the wellness sphere, not, you know, never, never, you know, get them into the sickness. Yeah. I'm, I'm just trying to understand, you know, do you, do you tell your kids who are in high school right now to go become a doctor, right? Go become a, no, no. So Peter, I have told all of our kids, as you know, that I believe even the safest thing used to be computer programming. And as you know, now that that's, that is going to be gone. Right. No, no. Computer science is also, it's totally twisted. So to me the best thing you can do is to be an entrepreneur who takes the latest technology and finds what can you do to make human life better with this technology.

1:20:14So every one of the humans is actually going to become an entrepreneur and that is going to be the safest skill that is applying the technology to a specific problem. And they're going to be hallisontal players and there won't be a deep vertical players who are going to just constantly slice and dice them in different ways. Well, I would respectfully argue that entrepreneurs by themselves are not going to be enough. And I would say that you need the scientists and technologists who are developing new, I mean asking the kinds of questions about whether the world, whether it's biology or the universe.

1:20:53right? There are too many questions that I don't believe that AI would be asking all the right questions, all the time it would be based on the kinds of questions that human asks that goes deeper and deeper as well as broader and broader. So I think you need the two types of people and the broad entrepreneurs are taking the innovations that come from the deep thinkers and putting them together to solve problems? Well, you know, I define a entrepreneur as a person who finds a juicy problem and solves it. And so the more entrepreneurs, the more problems get solved, the better the world gets. And we do need scientists, you know, Elon's x .ai when he's looking at building a line AI with humanity, his number one sort of metric for alignment is curiosity creating AI's that are super curious and I love that I love that description.

1:21:47So Peter the three types of people in the world people who find problems they are human beings people who solve the problem they are the scientists and the inventors and people who solve the problem are entrepreneurs so to me that's how I define it. Yeah that's good let me bring it back full circle to to Vioam. You know the the reality is Because the more we are understanding the human body, the more we're realizing how massively complex it is. And I think I have gotten such an extraordinary respect for the microbiome, oral nasal, you know, your whole GI system here. It is an interplay that most people don't realize.

1:22:37I mean, there have been a lot of papers out recently that say, oh, you know, if you Google, you know, Alzheimer's and microbiome, Parkinson's and microbiome, depression and microbiome, you're getting incredible published science in these areas. Yeah. Yeah. So was there anything that shocked you? You know, we did every day. Every year, a couple of years. People were thinking, we were crazy thinking, talking about microbiome. Not only every day they are 10 to 20 research papers showing every single disease from addiction pick a name You want cancer and microbiome cancer therapy and microbiome is literally paper now lady Gaga is talking about gut microbiome That's where you know you have Singing lady Gaga is singing about the gut microbiome.

1:23:27Oh my god That's like that just tilted me all right, so I am curious One of the things that I am working on right now, and I do need to do my whole body intelligence test again. So I need to literally order it right now, because I am working on trying to get my gut back in order with the appropriate prebiotics. What's that? After the antibiotics you took. Yeah, after the antibiotics I took, right. To get, and it's prebiotics and probiotics and so forth. So, if someone feels like they have some dysbiosis, if there's like their gut isn't what it should be, because you've got all kinds of things like leaky gut, you've got your food allergies that develop as a result of that, you've got the wrong kind of flora and the wrong part of your, it's not just taking X -lax anymore, right?

1:24:31It's like, it's a complicated feel. So one of the thing is people are doing these things and hurting themselves. I mean, did you see the research people that this really shocked me? There is shortage of laxatives in the market. You cannot buy laxatives and drug stores anymore. You know why? That three reasons people are why it's happening, which is my boggling to me that why people are doing it. Number one is obviously people are eating really processed foods and all the shitty food that causing constipation. Number two is people are taking these drugs like osempic and manzaro and the way they work is obviously they slow down the food You're the juicist one, yeah, I'd like to make you feel full right so that causes constipation and people are using the lexatives now like another The food disorder instead of throwing up from the front door.

1:25:18They're throwing up from the back door So literally they eating the shitty food and taking lexatives, right? But the point I'm gonna make is be right coming back to what you're saying is that we have don't wait until you see the symptom to see if you've got microbiome is okay. Because by the time you see the symptom, this has been around for 10 years. So by the time you've developed diabetes, your had diabetes in so high insulin for the last 10, 15 years. By the time you see the first symptom of Parkinson's being in your gut for 15 years. I do think if you're listening and you haven't tested your microbiome, if you haven't gone through to look at what's going on there.

1:26:01There definitively is good and bad gut flora, 100%. And you might find things that are really problematic, that of a high correlation with cancer or various neurological cardiovascular diseases, right? I mean, one of the things is your mouth flora can get very quickly to your brain. It's like right there. It does, it's a night, so two problems. They are just like a leaky gut. If you have leaky gums, guess what happens? Identical. Your oral microbiome is going into your blood and you know, a lot of people. So only one thing Peter, I want to correct you. It is not a good microbiome or a bad microbiome.

1:26:40It is a good behavior or a bad behavior. So same organism like P ginger wireless. 88 % of us have a P ginger wireless in our mouth. Only about 15 % of the people when it starts to produce ginger pain is when it becomes virulent and toxic, right? So you want to look at is it actually commensal or is it become pathogenic, right? And by looking at RNA we can say this P -Ginja virus is totally fine, leave it alone, or it has turned toxic, we need to do something about it and same thing in the gut. So it's really the behavior as Gandhi says, banish the sin, not the sinner. Yeah, I love that. So once you get your results, let's talk about how you're empowered, what levers you can move to try and bring things back, And how long does it take to really move the needle on getting your gut flora, your oral flora back?

1:27:47So we've seen Prytics 4 to 6 months to get your basically back into the order. Again, depends on where you start. If your starting point is really, really bad, it may take you here. But generally 4 to 6 months is a good place to start. Actually, our latest study shows that even at 3 months, beyond three months, you start seeing an impact in the effect, not less than three months, but more than three months, yes. And typically, in what if you're on the violin plan right now, you're testing every quarter. Every four, we rip when every four to six months, if you can afford every three months, that's what we should do.

1:28:24If you can't, at least do every four to six months. Twice a year, okay, got it. And so you get the results back. And what are the levers you can move? We said number one food, right? You can stop eating this and start eating that. That's right. But even the quantity so we can say, hey, eat more of this less of this or don't eat this at all. Right. And the second lever is really about nutrients because they go hand in hand when you have a Serious issue with your gut lining you cannot just simply say it's gonna take too long Let's need to put the bandaid first before we can stop the bleeding, right?

1:28:58So we say here's a butreats you need here is you know actual nutrients you need to at least get your body into the place So, getting the right supplements which are personalized to you, getting the right probiotics and prebiotics, one of the bad thing people do Peter is, right after antibiotics, they take probiotics and take a lot of probiotics. And that is actually, despite what experts tell you, that's a bad advice. And here's why. So because when you have taken antibiotics, you're basically wiped out most of your microbiome. And when you take probiotics, you're basically taking 456 screens and they literally take over your gut and nothing else will settle down because now they have too much of that.

1:29:38And now they become any point of time when there is too many of them, they start to basically there is no more diversity that can be done. So the best thing to do after antibiotics to eat very different types of fermented food. Take kombucha, take pickles, take you know kimchi, take kaffir, take yogurt, take as many different type of fermented food, so build the diversity of that and then start taking probiotics and prebiotics to make sure that you continue to build the diversity or else you lose the complete diversity there. Yeah and another thing I would add here is that we have built this sort of a virtuous cycle so to speak.

1:30:17So like experimentation cycle that in fact accelerates this process. As more people do longitudinal analysis, we can see what is working and and adjust all of these things better and better to individual biology. And we are constantly doing that both with external clinical studies, as well as our own internal studies that are improving these randomized, controlled trials. So, Gour, you wanna talk about the latest study we just published on depression on how that, people who had high depression, 74 % of the people, their high pH Q9 came down to low or no depression compared to the control for 14 .9 % people.

1:30:57Think about that. No drug would ever do that. What we did was simply with food and supplements. Amazing. Let's talk about timeline one second. So if you go to biome .com, you order a kit, you get it a couple of days later, I assume. When you and you're gonna provide a, you're gonna spin into a tube, you're going to do a finger blood prick, you collect a little bit of blood and stool. And you send that in, how long does it take to process that information? 10 days. So 10 days later, you get in your app, it complete insights into the thing. At each person's feeder, we analyze not 20 biomarkers like from your blood test, you will get the lipids and this.

1:31:44We are analyzing 20 million biomarkers to tell you what is happening in your body, right? 20 million that's amazing yeah that's it's crazy all right all right um and then you get to get your probiotics prebiotics for your gut which look just like this um and then you get your supplements and then you get your oral lozanzis and very soon you'll be able to get your personalized toothpaste or oral lashinges or what what's in there so they are basically our probiotics prebiotic post -biotics and all of this herbs and I need that. I need to get a hold of that and I will. Absolutely. Where do Navin, you're on Twitter, on Instagram.

1:32:31What are your handles? I'm really good at Instagram and LinkedIn. Find me on Instagram. Find me on LinkedIn and find me on Twitter. I don't know what Twitter is, but I'm actually. Okay. Oh, that's not. All right. Is it just at the end? at Navin Jane. You can find me at Navin Gen CEO on Instagram or LinkedIn or you know okay and for the volume just volume .com. Here's the deal guys at the end of the day do you really know what's going on inside your body and and my guess is that you don't and you can and if you can why would you not want to why would you not want to know if you should be choosing peppers or broccoli.

1:33:17You may think you're eating healthy and you're not. At the end of the day, as well, understanding what's going on inside your body, we are a massive 40 trillion human cells and on the order of 100 trillion microorganisms. It's a dance that we're just now able to understand using AI and massive data. So my recommendation is listen, if you're a great shape, if you feel great, if you've done something else fantastic, if you're curious, check it out. One of the things that I'm so pumped about Navine and Guru is the science in tech you're into the table at lightning speed. Thank you for all of your hard work.

1:34:08So, so grateful. So, so grateful. I'm so thankful to you and grateful to you for continuing to guide us. More importantly, continuing to guide the humanity from your education, your purpose, brings joy to my life that you do this out of sincerity to help millions of people live a better life. Your podcast, I mean, it brings people together, gives them information, they won't get anywhere. So all I can say is Peter, please keep doing what you're doing. You're making a real impact on people's lives. Thank you, buddy. Thank you so much. Yes, Peter, I can tell you that you've changed my life as well.

1:34:43A lot of your articles, blogs, everything else you do has just made a tremendous difference. In my life and in my families, overall trajectory, I would say. So it's been tremendous. Thank you, gentlemen. A real pleasure. excited to have you. We'll come back together in a year and see what the data is telling us and Navine. I'll give you a call once I get my gut intelligence by full -body intelligence back and I happen to know the CEO so I'm going to get a quick detailed rundown with you. Dr. Jane. All right, a pleasure. Love to your family. Take care. Thank you. Bye everybody.

1:35:34And Doug, here we have the Lemo Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their core insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, Lemo, is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera! They see us! Only pay for what you need at LibertyMutual .com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings vary under it and by Liberty Mutual and Churns Company and Affiliates excludes Massachusetts.