Mailbag: incl. Should I go with Private Equity? September 24, 2023

0:00A listener production.

0:07This is the Motley Fool Money Mailbag. Welcome to Motley Fool Money, our very special Sunday Mailbag edition. Specialer than ever, maybe, because Andrew is well and back. I am still well and still back. We are Motley Fool Money. Mr. Page, how are you? Very good. Very good. Keen to get into some questions. I'm glad, mate. The first question on my list. I had someone... Oh, no, sorry. Sorry. I misjudged. Continue. I'm just wondering why you're laughing. I don't know. I don't know. Please continue. All right. A question here from Scott who says what is strongman? See that's why I laughed and you knew full well.

0:47I knew full well. It's all about the theatre Mr Page. It's all about the theatre. Private online investment club. As they say in the movie Gladiator are you not entertained? Probably not actually a good point. Thank you for sharing that with me. Let's get straight to the questions mate. One from Kira who says Hi, gents. My name is Kira. And yes, please feel free to call this out on the podcast machine. Have I mentioned I like the podcast machine, Andrew? It's taken off. As an avid listener to your podcasts, which are great, by the way, I have a question or topic for discussion, please. We hear about the 2 ,000-odd companies listed on the ASX that we can choose from.

1:24However, I've come across some impressive and talented leaders who play important roles in private companies, which leads me down a rabbit hole towards private equity given the australian sovereign fund currently has 16 of its value in pe this is the future fund should a mum investor kira's female which i love and a mum thank you kira also be considering this option too over and above the usual etfs and direct holdings and if so how would one go about identifying and comparing firms products etc could you please start with the basics i.e is investing in pe the same as investing in a managed fund?

1:59I gather fees will be higher than your standard ETF, but is there complexity here that you could cut through? I appreciate the quick answer is just get an ETF, and I can see the appeal of cheaper and easier. However, this is a great platform to go a little deeper and challenge preconceptions. I love it, Kira. Particularly private equity, which has old money vibes that you somehow need to be in the figurative boys club to know which one to invest in. In the spirit of democratizing access to building long-term wealth, are we missing a trick by only looking at the publicly listed managed fund type options.

2:31Thanks in advance, Kira. I love it, Kira. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being one of our many, but not large enough group of female listeners. Thank you for sending in your question too, mate. I love the mum investor. That's great, rather mum investor. The mum investor, that's brilliant. Ram, private equity. You're not going to just buy an ETF, are you? Nah, I wouldn't even bother, frankly. I mean, there's all kinds of asset classes and there is a school of thought that you should have a little bit of everything. I just don't think it's necessary. Look, the evidence, I think, speaks very loudly.

3:03I mean, one of the great sort of sacred cows forever was the 60-40 portfolio, right? 60 % equities, 40 % bonds. Like, why? Why would I hamstrung myself with 40 % government debt, low-yielding, not pass, like hard pass? I'm sure there's a whole bunch of financial planners who are just falling off their chairs. And different strokes for different folks, and it can't be a blanket kind of statement. But for most people, no, you don't need it, and you certainly don't need that much. Private equity just has a very different raison d 'etre to other sort of investment mandates, really. They're basically looking to come in, buy cheap, usually with leverage strip the guts out of it refloat it you know they're not they're not there for a long time they're there for a good time and and they've got a bad reputation frankly now again anyone from private equity who happens to be listening i know you're the exception to the rule and there are exceptions to the rule but for most part you know they look at all the companies that have come onto the asx that have come out of private equity hands they haven't always gone on that well we've we've joked before is if you made me or you uh ceo of a company we could make the next few years results fantastic it's like yeah cutting the guts of the thing out and just you know no cost no investment profits are going to look pretty good because margins are going to go up you know but it just it just it has a consequence and i'm being let me let me let me throw that back at you though you wouldn't want to buy from private equity but if you were the bloke who could list that piece of rubbish on the asx at an elevated price and make a fortune doing it wouldn't you want to be in on that game yeah yeah absolutely it's a bit like the um except if you're assuming that this is just a guaranteed way to make money now i haven't seen any analysis on this but anecdotally i know there's plenty of private equity firms that have just done a horrible horrendous job like awful awful performance right it's like the mythology of short sellers you know oh that's the smart money they always get it right no they don't they get it wrong all the time so does private equity so the the answer the frustrating answer is it depends if you give me the opportunity to invest with an incredibly savvy capable private equity team sure i'm not going to argue against that yeah but i would argue that that statistically it seems to me likely that you know the odds the odds there's probably just as much very ordinary performers out there as there are good performers frankly and uh look at all the private equity that tipped money into things when free money was sloshing around there for a while and funding e-scooters and all this stuff that just ended up in rivers and just blew up a bunch of capital.

5:54I'm being really harsh here. I just think, I think, and I know I always say it, you know, keep it simple. Simplicity is really your friend here. You know, look, on your deathbed, if you've put all your money into a broad-based single index ETF and you look back on your life and go, wow, I got 7.5 % compound over a lifetime. Could have I done better? Yeah, of course you could have. Is it a terrible result? Not really. Did you avoid a whole bunch of stress and unnecessary, you know, false sophistication? You know, I just, how do you handicap yourself? That's the other thing you've got to ask you.

6:33and I'm not trying to say this from my ivory tower. I wouldn't know where to start. I've been in this industry for, gosh, nearly 30 years now. I had no idea where I would even start. So if Kira has an edge that she feels gives her the opportunity and the potential to identify the really great ones and invest in them directly, which is, again, probably not because there's all kinds of barriers that are there, then by all means go for it. But I just don't feel as though it's necessary. i don't think it's necessary either mate i found some data which is unusual for this podcast but i did what you were chatting um this is new york times article about the u.s so blah blah it's also a bit older so it's as of end of september 2020 is the most recent data that was published it was published the end of december 2021 so there's probably more recent data out there but i haven't seen it just quote new york times quote as of september 2020 private equity funds had produced a 14.2 % median annualized return net of fees over the previous 10 years compared with 13.7 % for the S &P 500, end quote.

7:38Now, a couple of things. First is that's an outperformance for private equity, which is great by a bit. Second thing I would mention though is that's a median return. I was going to say, that's yes. Not an average return. And so the median return, now medians are generally better than averages when you're talking about some data sets. For example, average incomes between me and Kerry Packer, or not Kerry anymore, James Packer, don't matter much because the average isn't very useful. Someone's very rich and someone's not, and the other one is me. So, you know, there's that. But median does mean there's a broad range outside that.

8:09Now, I don't know why they've chosen a median. They just have. It's not necessarily bad, but just bear in mind we're looking at different things here. An average S &P 500 is the average of all the companies, not the median company on the S &P 500. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Well, this article is actually not trying to overrate it. This article is actually trying to say it's not as great as people thought. So they're not trying to overset it. They're saying, hey, it's roughly the same and you know what you're getting. Because that's my next point, Kira, is this is the median fund. Now the fund themselves, the fund isn't the manager.

8:37So here's the thing. Normally when you invest in private equity, there's massive amounts of disparate ways of investing in it. But normally you give them your money, you lock it up for five to 10 years. They invest in a very specific subset fund. So it might be the Andrew Page investment fund number one, managed by Page Incorporated. So you're not investing in Page Incorporated, you're investing in the fund that Andrew Page Incorporated is running. So that one fund with a cash box and individual investments, which may or may not replicate what they did last time. In other words, it's really, really, really, really hard to know how likely you are in advance to get anything like the average return.

9:15So when you see that how well Facebook's done or how well, frankly, the guys who took Maya Private, I think made a mozza, even though they sold a dog back onto the ASX. You can see those numbers. You can't see A, how representative it is and B, whether or not the next fund you invest in, which is going to be a very specific, you can't invest like an ETF style thing in lots of funds or you're investing in one fund with the funds locked up for years, hoping it's a Facebook, hoping it's not a insert company here. Milk Run, for example, the one-hour delivery mob that went broke recently. Those are the sorts of things you're taking the risk on.

9:51So I would say I would not do private equity because the one thing the ASX gives you is either the ETF opportunity. And I know you wanted us not to say just get an ETF. So I won't, even though Andrew did. But the other thing is you can do your research on individual ASX listed companies based on their background, based on the current price, based on their products, based on what you know, as opposed to sending someone a check and saying, I hope you find the next Facebook. So that's, I wouldn't. I'm not saying you shouldn't necessarily. I'm not saying you can't. I'm not saying some people won't make money doing it.

10:21I just don't think you can get access to sufficient data to give yourself an edge, a sense you're definitely doing the right thing. Now, you mentioned at the end, by the way, you talk about the boys club and the old money thing. I think that's the impression that they give. They frankly want to, right? Because if you make it sound exclusive, then everybody wants in. You and I want to get access to the things that only the old boys network can get access to. And I get that. I would just finish by saying, going back to the original numbers, in the US for the decade until September 2020. The PE market there was roughly the same, close enough to the same as the rest of the equity markets.

10:57So there is no special old boys club where the results are 20, 25%. It was about the same as the average market return with probably a very big disparate difference. And unless you know you're getting the upside of that, you may get the downside of that median. And so you're kind of putting your eggs in one basket, hoping that you're above average rather than below average. And that's generally speaking. it's it's not a probabilistic way to approach investing in my view yeah yeah hey let's get a question from a question you personally doesn't give their uh give their information good afternoon gentlemen thank you for your service is our unknown questioner please advise knowing if i take your advice and lose money it's all my fault is an asset turnover ratio of 18 bad bad now it's uh it's interesting questions to ask as an absolute number let's go back to asset turnover ratio we don't talk about ratios very often on this podcast ram because uh well frankly they're not very exciting radio but it is important stuff so can you share with our listeners what asset turnover ratio measures and then whether a number any given number is good or bad i don't even know what is it like the is 18 over the is it over a defined time frame of 18 18 times let me Let me do the thing.

12:11I've got it here in front of me. Total asset turnover equals net sales divided by the average total assets. Now, ignore average for now. They use the beginning asset, end asset to average those. Oh, sorry. I thought you meant it within a portfolio. Okay. No, I'm sorry you're thinking about portfolio turnover. So asset turnover is sales divided by assets. And the idea basically is, if you can do a lot of sales with not many assets, that's a good thing. And it is, right? If I can, like a software company, If I can sell something without having to actually spend any money to create the thing I'm selling, that's great.

12:42If I have to build massive big steel mills, then it's a measure of capital intensity. How much money do I have to put to work to make the sale is really what this is measuring. So 18, I've got to say to you, honestly, unknown questioner, I don't know the actual answer. I don't have a frame of reference for what's good and bad in an absolute sense in terms of turnover, other than higher is better than lower. 18 would suggest to me, you've got a pretty capital-like business, generally speaking. Because if you can put a dollar of assets and make$18 worth of sales, that's a pretty good starting point, generally speaking.

13:16So I would think that was probably better than average, but without any way of absolutely knowing for sure. I don't use it, frankly. I don't use it as something that I think is important. What it shows you is other things I do look at, which is capital intensity or returns on equity, for example, or assets would give you similar results. The reason I don't use it is because it uses sales rather than profits. And if I could do$18 of sales, but my gross margin was 1 % on that$18 worth of sales, I'd rather have$9 worth of sales at an 80 % gross margin. I'd simply get more profit per dollar of sales.

13:48And so I'd get more profit per dollar of assets. So I would personally use a return on assets measure if you wanted to use the assets as the base or some other return on equity, profit margins, other things I would use instead of asset turnover. That's just my personal view. rave do you have a similar one yeah no i think that's about right it's also it's that frustrating answer if it depends what's what kind of business are we talking about some businesses it'll make no sense whatsoever like it's just a nonsense kind of number um i i think i think i like to see things where it is relevant that you see consistency or hopefully even improvement over time that's a really great that's a really great sign um i think all investors start as you as you go on this journey we all start with the idea of i'm just going to collect lots of data and crunch lots of numbers and scan lots of markets and find the one that has the best set of metrics um a lot of us do that i know you did i certainly did yeah yeah totally and for most part But I think you tend to graduate from that unless what you are, you term what might be a factor investor and you sort of Ben Graham style it where you do it over literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of companies and just try and play a statistical sort of game, which isn't really practical for the private investor.

15:11So it's not, there's not enough signal in the output given all the variability that you will see within just the one metric and the fact that you really want to look at things holistically as well. So you can have companies that might have a fantastic asset turnover ratio, but just on every other metric is a really bad one. So there's no formula that exists or combination of metrics that exist that will always point you in the right direction. The way I think about it, I think that demonstrates that the most easily, is that if that was true, you would have the JP Morgans of this world with the whole floor of their glass tower decked out with supercomputers and PhDs doing exactly that.

15:57Yeah, that's right. In fact, a few of them do. And in fact, the very fact that they do that arbitrage the opportunity away so it doesn't exist. Yes, although we're back to the$20 economist thing we mentioned on Friday. I mean, just because someone's doing it doesn't mean it's not there. We shouldn't assume that just because an opportunity is there, maybe someone else has done it. Buffett and Munger have been doing their exact thing for 55 years and no one's arbitraged that away yet. yeah well that's that is true that is true so i'm not saying don't look at it look at it you know where it makes where it makes sense to to to look at it 100 but again it's more it's more in the it's more in that direction and it's more as one part of a very large sort of puzzle um so yeah it it's what can i say um the the the problem that you'll have with a lot of these things too is that they're always backward looking.

16:50So you get last year's revenue, right? And the assets that are on the balance sheet that time, it's like, well, what actually assets am I going to include in this? There'll be some assets that probably don't make any, some intangible assets that really aren't relevant to this. Inventory is probably a better asset line item that you want to factor in to this kind of stuff. And then you think, well, why don't I just use inventory turnover and then and then you start this is what i see a lot of investors do they they sort of cut it and slice it and dice it in a way that they find that is relevant to them yeah but it just it gets it just gets it just gets a little bit messy so there's no i know the the tempting answer to give is like oh it's very important always look for something that's above 15 yeah that that's that's the nice answer right um it just doesn't work and there'll be companies And again, I don't want to mention names here, but there's one that I'm particularly fond of at the moment, which historically speaking, it's pretty ordinary on this metric.

17:47I haven't even done the numbers, but I know from the balance sheet and the income statement, look, it's pretty ordinary. But they're in the process of rolling out a strategy where there's all kinds of things happening under the hood, which kind of obfuscates what's really going on. But I definitely want to see improvement in that. And they've started calling out some areas where they have shown improvement in their inventory turnover and the efficiency that is there. I'm rambling at this point. It's just, take it as a data point. Interesting. How does it compare to where we've gone? Where do I think it should be?

18:24Maybe look at some peers and then put that as one piece in a much larger puzzle. I like it, mate. I've got a question from Marcus who this was a month or so ago so he was talking before he says I hear our minister says we are squirrelling away our funds and we should spend it but isn't that what we should do and save for a rainy day I hope the boss comments on the minister's speech I'm not sure who the boss is but I think we've kind of covered that spending the future fund is just madness it wasn't by the way the minister it was a shadow treasurer I think from memory no it was a think tank although the shadow treasurer did say the treasurer was spending too much time I'm thinking about the long term, which I frankly thought was a little bit bananas.

19:03He does say, and this feels like a Dorothy Dixer, but I promise it's not. He says, Scott, thanks for the super advice as my wife was asking. I can't remember what he said. But what can the fools offer? Paid advice, of course, he says. When we retire with our super, I'd really like to live on the interest from my capital. And if not enough, I will work, I will earn some. That's work for it, he says. We do have a service called Everlasting Income. If you want to know more about it, email us and we'll sort out some information for you. that's i don't know a massive plug but uh that's exactly we have a service designed exactly for that marcus um which is designed to turn a portfolio into an income stream um so i will i will answer your question but not not with a lot of detail not for a long time because that's just a bit sucky i'm not here to plug our services um one from but thanks for asking mate i appreciate it one from john hi scott and andrew at 55 i am a gen xer i just missed missed out on being a loathsome boomer it says in brackets aimed at andrew there you go mate gen x is the best generation it really is and they're most under they're most overlooked yeah it's boomers and millennials boomers and millennials what about us what about exactly exactly that movie pictures weren't wrong when they're saying what about me in the early 80s that's an anthem for our generation if you don't understand what what about me is then don't worry about it you're either too young or too old and we don't care we're gen x um uh john says i've also just found your mailbag podcast What a revelation it is listening to you and Andrew.

20:24Is this your Uncle John, mate, or mine? I'm not sure. I don't know. I'll take it either way. Yeah, yeah. Holy Dooley, he says. How you guys talk about the topics of the day for so long and keep it interesting is amazing. Going off on so many tangents, but still managing to come back to the original point. Thank you, mate. We do our best. I have a little thought bubble for discussion, says John. These wealthy boomers with multiple properties and money in the bank will not be with us forever. And when they do leave us, they will leave their remaining assets to their children. who will in turn give a substantial share of those assets to their children.

20:56In other words, the millennials. So the millennials could then become the most affluent generation. What do you think? What do you think, Andrew? Well, this is a very big question because you kind of get to, you kind of wade unintentionally so into ideological waters. Yes, you do. Do you want a society that is very merit-based in terms of your abilities and efforts and risks taken? Or do you just want to have your station in life determined by what grandma and granddad did? You know, I don't know. I'm just going to instantly annoy half the audience to say what I prefer. Go on. I think it's very natural.

21:47It's very human. It's very loving, in fact, to want to build enduring generational wealth for you and yours. Like, you do. I want to look after my kids and my grandkids and so on and so forth. At the same time, I don't want to ever have them in a situation. What's Buffett say? You want your kids to have enough money that they can do whatever they want, but not so much that they can do nothing. To do anything but not to do nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you tend to see, I mean, what's the old saying is the first generation makes it, the second keeps it, the third loses it. Yep. Shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations.

22:24It happens, right? And it's because you sort of, over time, you forget the value of the dollar and you start to take it for granted. You start to see your position as some specific exceptionalism to your family lineage. It gets all very aristocratic very, very quickly. So I tend to err a little bit on the side of inheritance tax. You know, I think it's without, you know, it's not necessarily a black and white, you know, like tax everything as soon as someone dead and take all of their assets away versus nothing. I don't even know what, it's way too complex for me to even, and I haven't thought deeply enough about it.

23:06But they're the kind of questions you're getting at here. so I do think I do think I certainly look so I work from home I go for a walk each day because otherwise I just get deep vein thrombosis sitting at a desk all day and I live in an area where once you see it you can't unsee it I walk past all these older people who living in these assets that must be worth three or four million dollars if they're if they're a dollar you know like they're just they're all falling down um they're out the front in shoes with holes in them and just like asset rich cash poor yeah you think what are you waiting for what are you waiting for i'm not saying you know yeah buy a ferrari and go to town but it's just sort of like i think some unfortunately the chains of habit are too lightly felt until they're too heavy to be broken to to quote Buffett again.

24:05Yeah. And, and you, you, I feel as though there's, some people are just bad at living at a certain point. Like you, you, you, you, you save up and you build this wealth through a life of prudence and hard work and sacrifice. Yeah. And then it's, it's, it's become so central to your, your modus operandi that you actually like, you know, even if you feel as though you're going to live for another 30 years, you can live a very, very comfortable lifestyle and leave some for your kids. And here you are eating cat food, shivering in the cold. Like, what are you doing? So there's a balance to be struck here as well.

24:45I get that people are right to sort of say, I want to live off the income. That's my goal too. Just for the flexibility and the optionality of things. That's a very noble kind of thing. But not all of us are going to be able to do that. And I think you want to strike a right balance. unless you believe in reincarnation. I don't. And even then, if you do, how do you transfer the wealth to whatever thing you reincarnate? Like, you know, a few spins around the sun and you want to enjoy yourself, I think. I don't know. Am I being too... People who say you can get too hard, you can be too hard on this front and then give it to someone and then your kids are just going to, you know, throw it up against the wall and it's like, for what?

25:30I don't know. I think you did right, mate. I think, so a couple of things, back to the question. Sorry, way off topic. That's good, it's good.

25:42So I think the boomers are probably the wealthiest generation ever because of the way that our society has evolved. I'm getting back to your point, Andrew, and to the questioner's point. and i think it's likely that most of that the wealth as a group will get passed down to the generations yes because they're not going to spend it before they die because a lot of it's captured in housing and fixed assets and share portfolios and we have been able to as a society store more wealth than ever i think in monetary terms so i think that's that's probably true as it goes down the generations frankly a lot of that wealth's going to be used to pay off debts and we've talked about house prices before and i'm going to try and keep andrew between the the red and yellow lines or whatever to make sure we don't get off the off course here um the uh so i think that that's that's also probable and so not as much absolute wealth will end up getting passed down because a lot of what we used to pay off debt now that's kind of a function of wealth i guess if you have less debt you're then wealthier because you're less indebted but you know so there's some of that won't necessarily go down the same size and quantum and then to the millennials as you rightly point out with your question i actually share so that that at a generational level that's i think the answer i think you're right john i think that's exactly what will happen now that'll keep going though to the next generation one after that one after that so is it consequential that the most most wealthy generation no eventually in time that will happen because that's how these things will cascade my biggest issue is absolutely andrew's issue i am increasingly am i in favor of it yet probably yeah i probably am in favor of inheritance taxes i call them death taxes if you want let's let's really ramp up the the uh hyperbole and and uh and uh pejoratives um the hyperbole as the kids say uh because i have a andrew's kids will be fine my kids will be fine um we as long as i don't you know get hit by a truck and do something stupid in my portfolio between my super my wife's super and the money we put aside separately our kids will be fine they won't be squillionaires they'll be millionaires they'll be fine uh and as andrew says i want to look after my family so i'm going to do that selfish i'm going to do that.

27:45Okay. That's what I'm going to do. Um, so it'll be fine. If I look at my, come my kids mates, if I look at some of my extended families, uh, family and, and their friends, there are people who don't have by virtue of accident of birth, being able to be born in the right places with the right skills, have the right life experiences and be in the right places at the right times to earn the right amount of money. They won't have that same ability to look after their kids the way I can with mine. Again, I'm not a squillionaire. I'm not going to be passing on yachts and second house. I have one house.

28:17I have a share portfolio. That's it. I have a couple of cars. But we will hopefully die with enough money that my kids are fine and their kids are fine. Others won't have that opportunity. Now think about, we've talked about compounding before. Imagine compounding not for 10 years or 40 years. Imagine compounding for 40 years or 80 years in terms of family wealth. And think about not compounding for 80 years. Now cast this forward to 2030 uh let's go for 2120 or 2110 let's go let's go 90 years in 2110 unless my kids do a stupidly terrible job of this there's a decent chance that they will be able to pass on inherited generational wealth for multiple generations now they have 85 kids and give it all to charity and go live in a you know a um where do you live if you're a buddhist andrew is it a temple somewhere like that anyway i guess you're gonna live one of those places haven't a kibbutz somewhere anyway you're gonna live in one of those places and you give it away then maybe not but if i'm able to give something to my kids and they can use that and give it to their kids and their kids their kids my descendants will have a better chance than the descendants of someone listening to this podcast who is a minimum wage who has not been able to save any money because of circumstances and who has seven kids now is that fair well on one hand is it fair because i worked hard and i deserved to be able to give some money to my kids yes is it fair that their kids start off behind the eight ball and their kids and their kids and their kids are even further and further behind the eight ball because my kids and my grandkids eight ball gets pushed further away or further ahead no it's absolutely not so although i'd be a beneficiary of my kids be a beneficiary of no inheritance taxes i really desperate i think one of the biggest long-term social trends we're not talking about right now is inherited inequality and that scares the hell out of me for our society it makes me sad for people who won't have that opportunity when others around them will have that opportunity and we will end up stratifying the society the way that feudal england frankly and pre-consolidation Germany, the fiefdoms of Germany.

30:11Why don't we end up in that situation? Well, I don't know, but I don't know that we won't. Now, I'm not saying it's going to be that bad, but I think it's a real issue. I think it's a real risk. I think as a society, we owe it to our descendants and frankly, not our descendants, the descendants of other people. If we believe in anything about equality, about a fair go, about an even start, about if you work hard enough, you can make it. If you start with a million dollars to start with zero i guarantee you can't end up in the same place more often than not and that's not reasonable so i think we should be talking about it there you go i think i love that i think the best thing you can leave your kids is um a good education not necessarily a formal one but just it's the whole teacher teach a man to fish versus give the man a fish yes if i had a choice between and it's like it never i can't see a situation where it's a binary choice like this but I can either leave my kids a million dollars each in today's purchasing power, or I can make sure that when I leave this mortal coil that they are well schooled in the idea of wealth creation.

31:13Yeah. You know, I'd much prefer the former, you know, the latter, sorry, the latter. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's something I think is something that all of us can do, no matter of your circumstances. and you will find that it is the most powerful thing that you can pass on as really, really good principles and start early, I think. It'd be really annoying because kids don't listen. I didn't. That's a hard spot. Do you know what I mean? I actually agree with the latter point. I disagree with the former. Oh, yeah? If I could, well, I mean, assuming they didn't blow the million bucks. I just think - But they will if they don't have the right mindset.

31:50Well, I guess that's true, right? But if that's, you know, you're right. If they're going to blow it anyway, of course, that's true. But I don't think you need, you don't even, With a million dollar head start, you don't need to be a financial genius because you bought your house. Yeah. I mean, that'll - Where are you buying a house? Well, not where you live, obviously. No. Not all that can live in your part of the world. But seriously, if you think about that, imagine going through life from day one or 18, having never had to pay a dollar of rent or a dollar of mortgage. I mean, that's a phenomenal, phenomenal head start.