Hormozi Teaches Me Everything He Knows in 90 Minutes

21:47This is many years ago. Obviously, I've really listened to this advice. And so I go in there and the guy's like, all right, I'll get you. He asked me, what do you want? I said, a boss suit. And so I'm 23 or 24, something like that. And so he puts this suit on me and he was like, what do you think? I was like, oh, I look awesome. And then I looked at the tag and it was 16 grand. And I was like, I think I turned white, right? And I was like, oh, and I think he saw me like just like freak out. And he's like, hey, he's like, do you care about the brand? And I was like, no, not at all. And he was like, I got you.

22:20And so he, the thing is, is that he had his lineup already picked for me and he just pulled the second one, put it on me. And he's like, what are you thinking? I didn't even look in the mirror. I just looked straight at the tag and it was two grand. And I was like, thank God. I was like, okay, I can like, my friend's not going to be embarrassed that he sends this poor, you know, his muggle, his non-match folks over peasant. And so anyways, I ended up checking out and he was like, well, you can't have this without that. He was like, well, you want to make sure that you have the little pocket thing and you want the socks, whatever.

22:46So I ended up leaving for 2 ,500 bucks. and I remember after I left, I was like, I spent five times more than I had budgeted for this thing and I realized I was like, oh, but the key part wasn't just that there was something expensive. Number one is that you actually have to sell it because sometimes people put anchors but they don't really like commit to the anchor. If you just say it and then immediately like don't even acknowledge it, then it's just like, this is this thing we put in the sales process. I don't know why it's there. That's dumb. You have to commit to it because the thing is, is 10 % of the time you have a whale and they'll fucking buy it.

23:12You're like, holy shit. But the other 90 % of the time, The key is that the thing that differentiates the anchor from the core offer is a very negligible thing. And so for me, the brand didn't matter. Or like he might be like, do you care what kind of wool this is? I'd be like, I don't care. Now, somebody might. And the reality is they probably don't actually. They just always buy the most expensive thing. Like Layla just always asks, what's the most expensive thing? And then she just buys it. That's how she rolls, right? She just always wants the best shit. You know, whatever. But the thing is, is you want to have a model that allows for that.

23:42And if 10 % of people buy something that's 10 times expensive, you double your revenue. So it's still worth it. And that that's why the anchor should be super fucking high. And so that's an example of a different type of one. But this one is a classic upsell, which would be positioned the way I said, which is a no based a no based yes, we cover the downsell with a feature downsell. And then continuity. Now you already have a continuity business. So there's no real point to like saying, how do we how do we do that? But one of the like, there's a different mechanisms that I use in that on that side.

24:07But one of my favorites is like something called a wave fee. So this works really well with expensive stuff. So we would say, hey, for us to go find this person, it's 10 grand up front or I can waive it if you commit to a year. And so you just waive the fee, but you get the commitment. And the thing is, it's like, oh, if you're not sure, then just pay the 10, you get it month to month, no sweat. And so with that, also you say, and we would stack it. So we'd be like, okay, we're going to waive the fee. We commit to a year. And if for some reason doesn't work out with Carlos, we'll get you another Carlos within 90 days or whatever, no cost.

24:40And so then it's like the, So you decrease cost and you decrease risk with the continuity and commitment, and we create artificial pain in the moment. Now, what happens if they're like, hey, six months in, I want to cancel? It's like, no worries, just pay the fee that I waived for the commitment. So it actually creates a very simple contract, which is like, you just got to pay that on the way out the door. So it also increases stick. So that's like, it has like three prongs to it that makes it, but it's very easy to understand and very elegant. And so that's one of the continuity mechanisms that I use.

25:08Hey, let's take a quick break. Like, you know, HubSpot helped Tumblr solve a big problem. Tumblr needed to move fast. They were trying to produce trending content, but their marketing department was stuck waiting on engineers to code every single email campaign. But now they use HubSpot's customer platform to email real-time trending content to millions of users in just seconds. And the result was huge. Three times more engagement and double the content creation. If you want to move faster like Tumblr, visit HubSpot.com. All right, back to the show. When I'm looking at a business, I'm running through the different mechanisms that we do.

25:41Like, okay, we're having issues. We're having a lot of friction here, right? Now I'm guessing because you're selling continuity on the front end, it's probably not a huge deal, right? Or, but maybe churn is, I don't know. But here it's like, okay, which part of this process needs to get lubricated? Is it we need to lubricate people coming in the door? And that's where we'd use a raffle or a giveaway or sweepstakes or something on the front end. Or it's like, you know, like the thing is, is they're signing for six, but we need them at 10. It's like, okay, well then we need to put more lubrication here.

26:06Or, you know what? we're getting all these unqualified like 80 % of the leads that are coming in are unqualified. We make the business decision. We want to sell to these people. Okay. We have a gross product, a gross margin product that's sufficient that still makes sense. We still have 80 % gross margins on this inferior product. Okay. How do we present it? And that's where the downsell would actually become really key. So I had a business that I close around in my head. And what we did was for the downsell, he, we basically the super high ticket thing that we were selling. He's a PhD for health stuff and he does all this like really weird health stuff for people.

26:38I'll just, I'll just, if you have a problem, he's the last person you go to and then he fixes it. That's his whole thing. Okay. And so, um, what we did though, is we created a downsell that re-upsell people. And so they'd, they'd get sticker shock and he would say, no worries. Um, if you want, I can do it for, you know,$2 ,000 less. Um, but I just won't include a guarantee. And so then people were like, I kind of want the guarantee. And then they'd re-upsell themselves. And so the guarantee is worth that$2 ,000 to me. Which actually gets to show you. So then there's becomes the art, and I talk about this in the book, of how much do I decrease price versus how much do I decrease value?

27:12And so the play between those two, the more you study the customer, the more you understand which components they value the most. And so typically when I'll create a downsell structure, I'm going to think, okay, the first downsell I'm going to give is actually to re-upsell the main thing. Now, if they really can't, because they clearly said no, even though it was a big issue, then I say the next one I'm going to do is going to be a tiny thing with a large decrease in price right and so the first one it's like small decrease big drop in value you know what I'd rather have the main thing the next one though I'm going to have a bigger drop in price with a smaller change in value at that point price is actually exactly right and so then then it's basically how do I ethically lower my price without saying I'm selling different things to different people that way I can change the terms rather than saying because I never discount but I will change terms like oh no they got something different than you which is why they pay less.

28:01If you want, I can give you that. That's fine. But you just won't get what you're getting now. And so that's a little bit of a brief overview in terms of how I think through creating these. But you can see right now, if you were to do just even a raffle once a quarter, that would probably feed all your leads for the next whatever. Yeah. And I think one of the best parts about this is every business has some version of this. This is a different way of looking at a funnel. Yeah. But the cool part of what I think you're doing with your books is you're basically taking the parts of the funnel offer, getting leads through the door, being able to actually sell the first thing to them.

28:35And how do you string together things to maximize the value you're getting for every, that hard earned lead that you already paid for and busted your ass for. And one of the things I like about this is that you've basically codified a lot of what the best people do, but they do it in their business. Then they get rich and then they sort of relax. Yeah, right. Right. Like I don't need to go back. I don't need to even label what each of these things were, but you've sort of looked at it and said, okay, let's call that an attraction offer. What are five examples of those that I've seen? And then you're on the lookout for them.

29:03You see it in this business and that business and you start to put it together. So I think that's very, very valuable, even as a structured way of brainstorming. Because I think most people in their business, most founders will understand, yeah, I want to get more demand and I want to make more money per customer. But these are vague wishes. And I think the key is to sort of not be most people. I have this like rant about most people. i'm like you know we try to fit in that's our nature yeah but it's like most people in america are overweight or obese most people don't like their job most people get divorced most people don't have enough money to you know to pay for an emergency and a procedure you don't want to be most people yet you want to fit in it doesn't really make sense and so i'd love to understand from you where you see a lot of entrepreneurs yeah when it comes to money models what do you see is like what are your most peoples that you're seeing that if we just drew kind of like here's how most people are doing this.

29:56And if you just made these sort of one or two tweaks, you're now not in the most people bucket anymore. You're operating in a different way. Your business is going to have a higher chance of success or be worth more. I would say not enough entrepreneurs or students of business and they're students of the thing. And so I'll give an example. So like, I will never claim to know more about remote work business or HVAC or plumbing or whatever, but like people fly out here, not for that, but because a very good understanding of the variables that crave money. And so it's like, okay, how can we arrange these variables?

30:26And then we will fit, like you said, the payroll thing. I was like, okay, great. You have a thing. I'm not going to be the one who immediately knows that. But I'll be like, there's a slot here that we're missing, right? And so one is they're not big enough students of business. Number two is a lot of times it's like, well, this is what everyone else does to your point. And so like, well, I'll give you an example. I had a guy who did guard services, right? And so they staff like buildings like this, right? With guards. And so he had huge cash flow issues because he's paper thin margins, but it's super sticky.

30:55People stay forever. And it's very commoditized in terms of competing for bids. And so, you know, after talking for, you know, extended period of time, I was like, okay, well, why don't we just say that people pay quarter at a time and pay up front? It's just, oh yeah. And he's like, well, no one does that. And I was like, so let me give you the best overcome in the world. Someone's going to ask you and they're going to say, well, everyone else, you're like, we've just always done it this way. That's all you have to say back. That's all you have to say. it's always why we've done it. And as crazy as that is, that is still the number one overcome.

31:23Perfectly legitimate excuse. Still the number one overcome. Like when I used to ask for credit cards on the phone for someone to show up for personal training or a trial or something, like most places do not do that. But they'd be like, why do you need my card? I'd be like, that's just how we've always done it. And then they're like, oh, okay. And so there's all this, like it's so funny how some of these little lines just make huge differences in your life. You like weaponize the uselessness of most processes. It's like we're all so used to processes that are stupid. Yeah, 100%. Then we're just like, oh, it's one of those.

31:50Got it. From management. And they're like, oh, yeah, retarded. Yeah, got it. In. And so one is, but like when I had to spend probably 30 minutes with him to just like, just get him to just be okay with asking for the money, getting paid quarterly, number one, and getting paid before you do service rather than after you do service. And so, I mean, everyone throws around the word first principles, but it's like very few people actually think from first principles. Like what prevents us from doing this? And I think that's, like, this is the constraint. cashflow, then like, what are all the things we can do?

32:20Can we change payment terms? Which is the first thing you're going to do if you have cashflow issues. Can we push our stuff out net 30 always? Right. Like how can we change this, this cashflow balance in our business? What's the money model of acquisition.com? So this is really interesting. So it's so hard for me because what I have to write about is not the rules that I have to live by. And so my favorite movie in the world is, uh, is the matrix like many people's. Um, but there's the line in the matrix when Neo's looking at Morpheus and he says, so are you telling me that I can dodge bullets?

32:50And he says, I'm telling you that when you're ready, you won't have to. And so all of the things that I write about, like even like selling tactics and things like that, they assume you have no brand. And so like when you have a brand, you have so much demand and so little supply that you can set your own terms. I can have zero attraction offer and make the absolute worst offer in the world. I don't have to make a Grand Slam offer at all because I might say, I don't want to deliver much at all. I will promise zero. I will guarantee nothing. But because then that'll still give me less operational constraints on the back end.

33:23And so at the end of the day, the reason I have the two parts of my logo are, this is a lever and this is supply and demand. And to me, those are the two biggest forces in business. And so if you have - I always thought it was a whale's tail. That's exactly what it is. But those are the two strongest forces in business. And so all of these things are to help lubricate or create or channel demand when you have little. When you have an ocean of demand, it's hard to lose. And so the model that we have is very different. It's almost like a word away model of like, we invite entrepreneurs out here who we think are interesting.

34:01We look at the business and then we say, hey, change these things, call us in a year. And that's basically what we did. We took our diligence process that we were doing for multiple years. And I was like, the catalyst for it was that we had, we're getting all these thank you emails. So all these founders would come in from my content or whatever, and they'd be like, you know, my deal team took six calls with them. And it was like, at the end was like, listen, these two metrics suck. Do these things, see how it works for a year, give us a call. And they were like, this was the most valuable process I've ever gone through.

34:32And then I was thinking like, that cost me a lot of money. And so I was like, what if I just charged for diligence functionally? And then I got, then I could actually staff it better and all these other things. And so that's functionally what we do from the advisory practice that then feeds the deal side. So you have the content, which creates the brand. Yep. What you did is you turned your cost into, whether it's a profit center or breakeven, I don't know. But, you know, something like this. This is your workshops. Yeah. What did you call it? You called it something else just now? Yeah, advisory practice.

35:00Advisory. Okay. Yeah. So this is your advisory. Yeah. And you say, okay, pay us five grand, come over here. Yeah. But then you do have an upsell here to like more advisory. Which is like, yeah. So we just do, so basically from there, it's, this is how we, basically how we see value creation. And so we say like, this is our framework for creating value. If you like this, happy to help you. If you're like, this is cool. I'll go do this. Awesome. But the consulting side is true consulting. It's one thing. Like they come, we identify the constraint. We say, okay, okay, well, we're going to go look at comps.

35:32We're going to look at the different ad strategies of people who are bigger. We're going to say, this is the funnel and this is the offer that we think you should do. And we say, this is all you have to do. When you do that, call us. And so it's 100 % from point to point. It's not like an ongoing thing. It's literally one-time consulting. And that's the quote upsell. And then at the bottom here, you have the equity side. Yeah. Where you're like, great. The private equity side, right? Yep. You're going to buy the businesses that - And the venture arm now, which we do a lot of. And venture. Okay, gotcha.

36:03Interesting. When you started, how much of this was figured out as you go? Oh, 100 % of it. grand master plan, visionary, turtleneck. Some things were master... Yeah, right, yeah. Some things, I would say, the big goals for master plan, all of this mechanics was absolutely, like, figured out as you go. Like, the books and how they've all been structured has been a five-plus year plan. And you'll see what I do at the launch and why. It's going to be awesome. But it will all be revealed. But, like, the mechanics of, like, the prices and like how we do that. Like that was very much born from like, I am currently spending money on this team.

36:43We have way more demand than we have supply. Maybe if I can generate more revenue here, I can staff it better. I can get more luck surface area because I can look at more of these deals. Cause you've probably seen this, like some companies look terrible on paper and then you meet them and you're like, Oh, these guys are awesome. And so we had to do so many, like, I mean, we'd, we'd probably talked to 1 % of the papers that we'd, that would come in. And I was like, I know we're missing stuff. Right. And so that was, that was basically the thesis behind this. I mean, I think it was brilliant. I was like, wait a minute.

37:09So he's basically gets paid for people to come and open up the kimono. They get value too. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. These are not dummies. These are business owners. Like they should be making good decisions. But I was like, wow, that's it. The median size is 4 million. So it's not like they're not small business. It's median. So like there's plenty of like tons of good businesses. Every time we have a workshop, top one's usually between 30 and 100, you know, and there's plenty in the eight, like every single, I don't think we've ever had one that doesn't multiple eight-figure companies.

37:36I want to play a game with you. Do we have the game here? Oh, what is the game? So the game was this. Ruh-roh. Okay, so this is going to be a game that we're calling Make It or Take It. All right, so you're going to have to shoot. I know you're not big in a battle. We're going to have to get up for this. Yeah, okay. So you're going to take a shot. We're going to see how far back we're going to go here, but I think we'll set that as the benchmark here. Okay. you make it, you're off the hook. Okay. You miss it, you have to take it with one of the tough questions that I sourced. We spin the bottle.

38:11I was like, I really like Alex. And I was like, what do people want? So I asked people, what do you want in episodes? The guy puts out a ton of content. Yeah. You know, I'm not just going here to get views. Like, well, yeah, let's do something new. Let's do something fun. And so they were like, ask him some tough questions. So I said, okay, let me think of some tough questions, but let's make it fun how we do this. All right. So first shot, go for it. And then you get a, if you make it, the guy asks you the question. If you make it, you can ask me the question. That's fair. Or I burn the question.

38:37So it's up to you. This is the question at hand. Okay. What's the question? Perfect. So the question is, what do your haters get right? What do my haters get right? Meaning, you know, you get criticism as anyone does. But sometimes there's, you know, some criticism is fair or there's components of it that's fair. So what do the haters get right?

38:59Steroids is one. You know, he's just, you know, he's here for the money. I would say from like the philosophical angle, you know, I would say there are people who are like, you know, say that like Alex doesn't have a life and I'm like, well, yeah, I'm pretty open about that too. You know, so it's like, they will use a fact as an insult and I'll be like, I agree. Right. So that's. I think that qualifies. I think that's one, right? Like they're intending it as a hater comment. Yeah. But you're like, yes, and I agree. I agree. Yeah. And if only you knew. And I'm open with that. Yeah. No, because if you ask these things, like I'm here seven days a week.

39:32Like I work all the days until I cannot work. And then I take a day and then I continue to work again. And I work 12 hours most days. I'm usually here five to five for six. And so. Is that a temporary thing? Are you like, I'm in an era of my life where that's what I want to do? Or you're like, that's who I want to be? It doesn't feel, this doesn't feel like a push. Like if I, when I'm pushing, I work third shift, which is I work 18. If I do that for an extended period of time, that starts to grade me. But like 12s is like, that doesn't, yeah. like five to five, five to seven. I'm like, I still feel like I've got plenty of time to like chill out and do whatever.

40:07All right. This episode is brought to you by Mercury. They are the finance platform of choice for over 200 ,000 companies. Shouldn't be surprised because I use it myself for not one, not two, but I have eight different Mercury accounts. I have seven for different companies that I'm a part of. And then I have my own personal account because now they have personal banking, which is a really cool feature. I highly, highly recommend it. Like I said, I use it myself. And the reason why is because the way that Mercury works is beautiful. It's very intuitive. And you could tell that it's actually made by a startup founder.

40:34It's an entrepreneur. You could tell it's made by somebody who used other banking products in the past and didn't like all the different rough edges and annoyances and decided to actually fix it himself. And really any type of entrepreneur you are, let's say you're an agency. Well, one of the things every agency has to do is be able to send invoices, easily create them, send them to customers and stay current on your balances with all your customers. Well, you can do that inside mercury and so i think that mercury is great highly recommend you check it out and uh thank you for sponsoring the show for more information check out mercury.com mercury is a financial technology company not a bank check show notes for details so let's do another question yeah okay yeah make it or take it all right all right what do i got i love it uh all right if i reset your bank account and your followers change your name and face so i reset you to zero basically drop you in another drop you in another life not another country how long do you think it would take you to get rich again?

41:24And what's rich? Rich would be, let's say for the name of this podcast, my first million to make a million bucks, get a million bucks in your bank account. A year. Uh, and what would be the approach? So you're, you're back to, to nameless, faceless, Alex, Alex. Yeah. Well, having lost everything twice, um, I'll tell you what I did, uh, which was I find a local business that's typically a service that I think, um, I can sell for a lot of money. Um, and they're typically undercharging. And so I will say, Hey, how cheaply will you let me sell you. Basically, if I send you 100 customers, how cheaply would you charge me to do that?

41:59And so I get an agreement on price from them. And then I sell for whatever the hell I would. If I brought you volume, what's the lowest you could deliver the service for that volume? Yeah. And so let's say it's a backcracker. It's a chiropractor or whatever. And I say, okay, how much will you crack back to the absolute cheese list? And he says, 25 bucks a session. I say, okay, cool. So I can sell packages of 10 for 250 and you're cool with it. And he says, yes. so I'm going to go and sell packages for three grand right and I'm going to make the spread and it's because I know how to sell I know how to get leads right and so I mean this is what I did I mean obviously I did in the gym space but that's that's what I did when I lost everything I just went to gyms and said hey um but for them I could I negotiated zero so like you already have all your cost basis I'll just add you customers and then after the first month exactly so I would I would take the first the 500 bucks I'd say like I get to keep that and then after six weeks you can memberships are all yours so zero cac for you i take all the risk i do all the work right and that's and then i would i did about 100 grand every 21 days doing that is there a better or worse type of service business that you'd go for like knowing what you know now like maybe i sold the gym i for sure do health care health care oh my god health care means what white lab coat anything any service yeah like pseudo i call it pseudo medical okay so that's where like i mean that's why i like teeth whitening that's we have a chain of 28 28 stores like i love pseudo medical stuff.

43:13So, uh, laser, you know, uh, laser, laser skin stuff, laser hair removal, uh, you know, the, the chemical peels. Um, I love all that stuff. Like the, the beauty medical like intersection, you can just sell your eyes out. It's amazing. What's the, why you love it? Because of the demand? Because it's huge supply demand, uh, inequality. So there's, if you see, if you look at the stats there, it's insane. Like the amount of demand of like boomers and all this stuff, who like want to stay young and the supply side on it is so low. And the reason I know this is because every single med spa that walks in these doors is killing it.

43:47And I talk to the founders and I'm like, whoa. And I'm like, so how do you market? They're like, we just kind of like open up. We just announced that we're there. We have a website. Yeah, no, they're like, yeah, we have a phone number. People just kind of come in. I was like, they don't know. That's not how it works. That's not how most business works. That's how crazy the supply demand difference is. And they don't think about pricing. They think about nothing. And they make, you know, 40 % more. They have no idea. And so that's why I would go there. That's like a hate signal for you. Yeah, 100%.

44:11When I see a lot of people who don't know what they're doing all making money, I'm like, okay, there's something there that's good. And so that's what I would do because that's what I did do. Right. Thank you. You're up. All right. Let me get another question here that I want to do because I got a couple. Yeah. Because it's like if you need to make$100 ,000 to$1 ,000 ,000, you can do that. Like if you know how to generate leads locally and sell, you just get a service business that agrees to take customers for a price and then you just sell as much as you can. All right. Go ahead.

44:40you want me to burn it you can ask what are you doing uh what did you get most wrong in the past three years okay i'll tell you this i started with a bit of a portfolio approach so i kind of had this thing where i was like i don't want to operate but these guys are operating well i can add a bunch of value similar to what you guys do private equity whatever and i took minority stakes in several companies that have done well but basically when they do well and i add value I just sit there wondering why the hell don't I own more of this company and I realized that I could have made more and really simplified my life with one great business like it doesn't take many great businesses to get to the next levels of wealth you know business can be worth 100 million 500 million like they can get very big and so I would have been better served doing less and I got it wrong I thought that I was being I thought I was playing the game at a bit of a higher level uh when in actuality if I just kept it simple yeah picked one of those business or built one great business, I could have done better than I did spreading my focus with less work.

45:40I made the same mistake. Yeah, we did 24 deals in 24 months and then we consolidated down to five. Yeah. Like, I mean, it's 80-20. Yeah, exactly. You're like, wow, that was dumb. The power law applies at basically all levels of life. It still rules, yeah. All right, let's do the next one. All right. All right, now I've got my... Yeah, I've got to move the benchmark back. Fine, you just ask it, whatever. All right, I was going to ask you, this one's funny. Should entrepreneurs, Should successful entrepreneurs get a prenup?

46:07Should's tough as a frame. If it's your kid. It's my kid. Well, if they're my kid, then they're going to have my money. So yeah, I'd say, yeah, get it. I mean, for me, I asked Layla. Basically, it's like when you want to have a prenup when you have somebody who doesn't want to sign a prenup. Like that's the only way I can say it. Yeah, it's actually a test. So like, um, Layla and I, um, I thought I was like rich when I met Layla, which I wasn't, but like, I thought I was rich. Um, and I said, will you sign a prenup? And she was like, sure. Like, I don't care. I don't want your shit. And so we were on the way to the courthouse to get it the notarized or whatever.

46:45And in a dramatic flare, I, uh, tore, I tore it, I tore it and threw it out the window. Um, because like, it was so not a thing. She was like, I don't want your shit. Like, it's fine. And I believed her and like, we've built everything together. So, but I think that is very risky advice. And so I would say the vast majority of people should have, like, should strongly consider it. Romantic. I like it. All right, here we go. I'm going to give you one. All right. Okay, I like this question. So I'll do this one. Oh, perfect. Bumped in and out, I know. This is an easy one. This is actually not that tough a question.

47:17If you could only follow three people on X, meaning if you had to slim your content diet down to bodybuilder mode, where it's like chicken and broccoli or whatever. Who's your chicken and broccoli of your content diet? People you genuinely value what they're putting out there. I think maybe Twitter is one of your big platforms. Yeah, no, it is. Let's say Onyx. It is. I mean, Elon would be one. So I have two more people to use.

47:46You know what's weird? I'm actually, I totally like use Twitter like a, like I just like let it serve me, whatever. Right. And so I just like love all the threats. Yeah, I just like kind of like just let it feed me, whatever. I'm trying to think about the other accounts that I would be like oh I'd miss them if I didn't see them right it's actually hard it feels like a much who are two years who are two years Naval would be one okay Naval's a good one you know the others I mean I would cheat and be like the news aggregators so it's like oh at least I get all that but I wouldn't actually pick that you know who I actually think puts a really good concept Ankur from Kerry okay yeah I actually like his stuff a lot interesting Yeah, I like his stuff.

48:27That'd probably be my second one. I'd say George Mack. Oh, you know, I love George Mack's stuff. Yep. George Mack. Although I'd cheat. I'd be like, just text me the thing. No, George is really good. I actually really like George's stuff. Yeah, now as I'm thinking about it, it's like, see how it puts good stuff out. Obviously, Williamson puts good stuff out. So, like, yeah, now that I'm thinking through it. It's like, I have, like, this blank. But, no, I like, I think George just has some of the most unique takes. Right. And I think that's why I like his stuff a lot. Yeah. All right, well, thank you for playing.

48:52No, dude, thank you. Thank you. Make it or take it. You took the tough questions. Promozy Hot Hands. Hard questions. Yeah, the three, you know, the biggest errors, man. That's a, because it's like, which ones cost me the most? And then which ones did I miss the opportunity the most? So it's like, I have, it's like, I, it's like, just based on the, like, I thought, I've really beat myself upon this. I have missed more$100 million net gains and multiple$100 million net gains than I have made, which makes me really angry. Um, but then I thought about it and I was like, you always say no to more deals than you say yes to.

49:28So you're always going to miss, you're literally going to miss more winners than you have. Right. But like, but like ever, I could tell you all, like, it's like, I say their names before I go to sleep at night. Like I've, like one of them, yeah. And some of them I'm like, I should, like this one was in the, like, I, there's no, like there was a gym franchise, like buddy of mine. I've known him for years. He's been in the business for 30 years. He finally went on his own to start a franchise. and then I was like, we need to do the business this way and he's like, I just want to run a franchise.

49:56I was like, dude, let's just privately own them all. It's a great model. And I was like, I'll fund the whole expansion. And he's like, I've already sold 40 units. Like, you know, I don't want to flip back. And so I ended up like not doing the deal and he'll exit for probably 120 million. And this is in three years. And I was going to, it was for 50 % of the company. And I was just like, he was a friend. It was fitness for, I was like, there's, I should not have missed this deal. You know what I mean? There's a content creator that I, that I love and have followed for more than 10 years. Talk to them.

50:30You know, we had a, we were going to get a 33 % stake in the company. And from the time that I, we said no to the deal, I'd say 24 months later, they're now probably$150 million company. And it's just like, I have a, I have like four or five of these ones that I'm just like, i should like that was like that one i said no because i knew the amount that he he slash they wanted from me was going to be more than i wanted to commit to like i could they it was like i think they saw it as like an aqua hire and i was like i'm not gonna like i will do this but i'm not gonna dive in i had a moment like this and in silica valley i was yeah i thought i was saying my big miss yeah i was like i forgot which one it was maybe it's like calm or something i was buddy with Alex and you know he was like raising it probably like a four or five million dollar valuation it's now two billion right so I could have easily written a check into com disregarding the fact that at the time I had no money it was not angel invested like there's many reasons I missed that in addition to just not thinking it was going to be a winner yeah um but besides that I I was telling some story about one of these one of these misses and I thought I was like sounding cool because I missed it and literally I just got big dogged by this guy at Silicon Valley who was just like he's like okay welcome to Silicon Valley he's like what are you talking about everybody anybody has yeah baskets of these are you kidding me you want to start like yeah i could how much time you got facebook number one uber's first and second exactly it's like oh i wrote the check i missed did the date you know how many different versions of this and he but he said something smart you know he was first he was like shut up basically he's like shut up you think this is like a really cool unique story yeah not only is this not cool and unique it's actually just a standard cost of entry if you're gonna play this game totally so like what are you talking about yeah but the second thing he said was he's like i think you're taking the wrong lesson from this because i was focusing so much on what i missed out on yeah versus what the root cause analysis of why didn't i do this oh okay i've and i've actually since then changed this where it's like actually a lot of these misses were like deals i liked i wanted to do they want to do it we just didn't chase or kind of follow up yeah enough to like make sure a transaction goes through because doing a deal sure takes a sprint at the end and we actually like operationalized a bunch of those once we once we got over ourselves and the the kind of weird ego of missing uh you You know, life got a lot better for us, but I had to learn that the hard way.

52:44But that was probably a big one. And then a lot of my big misses have been like strategic mess ups. Like one of the biggest errors I ever made at Gym Launch was I started Allen, the software company. And I should have built a CRM for gyms. And that was like, I had the right idea. What did Allen do if it wasn't? It just, it worked leads. Because the biggest pain point they had was working leads. CRM wasn't a pain point. But from a monetization perspective, if I had put them all on the platform, then I would have all their metrics. I would have been to control revenue. There's so many things I would have been able to do.

53:12You could have used the pain to get them into like the sticky forever product. Yeah, 100%. And so like that was probably a$300 million miss. And so like that sucks. That's probably like my biggest strategic miss I've made. I'm like, I literally allocated capital to build technology and I built the wrong one. Right. Like, but I didn't know enough. I mean, I was 27, you know. On the other side of the coin, what are the biggest hits that have happened post the gym launch and whatever? This building. So this was like an unexpected, like, wow, this was way, way more alpha than I would have guessed.

53:42And what do you mean by that? Like literally the real estate value? Or you mean just the serendipity of doing an office? The fact, so I bought this building before we did any, like, it was just like, I just wanted a place to have a gym. So like, I was like, I'm going to buy the building. And Layla was like, we don't, like, we're all remote. And we have like, you know, with the, on the, just the Pure Hold Co, I think at the time we had like 15 employees just on the investment side. And I was like, and so, and so anyways, I was like, I really want this building because it was the, it was old UFC building.

54:09It's kind of cool. I was like, I will figure out a way that it will pay for itself. Right. And so the only reason the advisory practice got stood up was because I was like, well, we have this space. I was like, let's just, I'll make a post and see if anyone wants to come out. And then that's what sprung. That's like, oh, there's huge demand for that in person versus remote stuff. And so then it was like, great. So we meet all these businesses and we generate cashflow. so it's like both things. But like this for sure, like that whole thing would not have happened if we didn't have a building. Like zero chance.

54:38I wouldn't have done it because it was just like, I have the space. Let's try. I just would never have taken that leap. Right. So that was probably a huge like, didn't guess it was going to be a win-win. That's probably like the biggest, the biggest one that's like that. Plus, I mean, you've got like, you know, Michael and a bunch of other guys who are here all the time now, which I think it was very tempting and very easy to be fully remote. Yeah. And I think remote works. remote works yeah but in like the business olympics the people who are serious about it they're going to be together they're going to be co-located uh you know like i paid diego i was like move across the country i'll pay you more just live as like the rule is here's a five minute radius from like we know where i live yeah pick a place you know that that's the only rule of coming out here and because there's you know you can't really replace that oh totally we're 80 so now we're 80 in person and so i think we're at like 90-ish employees something like that um and And so the only thing that we allow as remote is infrastructure.

55:33So HR, well, actually HR is here. So like, but finance can be remote. Certain tech roles can be remote. Legal can be remote. This has actually become my favorite podcast question. I don't know if you have a good answer to this because I think you're so locked in and focused on what you do. But just what are you like really interested in lately? Like what are you very obsessed with lately that's not your core day-to-day work? meaning not like a hobby but just like dude i'm kind of fascinated by this or just like keep reading about this or i keep wanting to meet people in this doing this thing what what's that thing i only have two and they will not be well one's the tried answer which is like i'm reading up on ai just like you are and i spend a ton of hours looking into it um the other thing is completely unsurprising is that i'm actually really into gym equipment like i i like my instagram is gym equipment it's gym equipment are we talking like novelty gym equipment or What do we do?

56:25Like, like kind of like I get all these like your neck cracker. No, no, no, no. Mine's like commercial, like giant. Industrial. Yeah, yeah. Like the stuff that you see at gyms. And why are you so interested in that? What's, what's, get me interested in it. Well, if you, like if you train hard, like you start to notice that like some, some machines are better than others and like, why are they better? And then you start looking at like force curves for like, okay, where does the, you know, where's the tension the highest? And then it's like, does it correspond with where hypertrophy is maxed out for like the range of motion for the muscle?

56:51and like just like what's the feel of the of the equipment and the range of motion and the adjustability and and like what like what kind of bearings are they like you can get you can go like pretty far into this yeah um and so i'll say this there's the there's this a new thing that came out it's called the vultra i'm not sponsored um by beyond power and i think that i think in i think 10 or 15 years gym equipment will look very different and it has not changed for a very long time. And it's because basically magnetic resistance hasn't, wasn't a thing. And now it is. And so like a vulture, for example, is it's like a brick, it's literally the size of a brick, it's this big, it can get to 200 pounds of resistance, right.

57:32But not only that, you can do single pound increments, which is amazing for strength work, because like most people, the like side note for anybody, a lot of reasons you get stuck at a machine or on dumbbells is because the percentage jump is too big. Like girls with dumbbells, it's like the worst, they go from 20 to 25 pounds for a girl. It's a 20 % jump in weight. And so they just can't make the jumps. They just get stuck. Whereas like the perfect gym would have literally a hundred dumbbells that are one pound, two pound, three pound, four pound, all the way up. And then you can make this progressions much easier.

58:02So anyways, it goes single pound increments. You can also change the eccentrics. So you can have it be way harder on the way in versus the way out. And the next thing is you can change the curve. So you can make it like really hard at the front. So for any kind of pulling movement, you want heavier here because you're stronger here, lighter here. on the flip side if you're doing pushing movements you want to be lighter here heavier here and you do that by just telling it the movement yeah you can just move the curve you can change the curve you can manually change the curve and so because of that is this the European company by the way I don't know I somebody sent me this they were like because I was buying the Bowflex like adjustable like two dumbbells but you can do all these weights and he's like I really want to get these and I just wanted to do the one that's probably Nubel okay maybe that was the one that's probably what it is but yeah the best ones right now are the Rep slash Pepin adjustables, they go to 120 and they're all metal.

58:47There's no plastic. It was, I mean, like I can talk to women, but that is probably my, I'll circle, I'll close the loop on the, on the Vulture thing. The reason that I think it's so interesting is that like all the selectorized pieces you see stacks of weight, right? You put a pin in it and there's the stack. Those, they take up so much room because you have to have room. You have to balance the piece of equipment from when people are moving it. And the stack takes a huge amount of space. And from a shipping perspective, it's so expensive to ship 400 pounds plus the machine, right? And so it takes more square footage.

59:18It's more expensive. It has smaller increments. You can't change the strength curve. There's all these reasons. And so they find like the tech is finally there where I think that there will be a next generation of machines where they will only have the electronic. Yeah, exactly. And you just literally plug it into the wall. And the thing is the square footage will be smaller. The actual machines will be cheaper because this is Vultra's gen one. as soon as like the like in five generations it'll be two hundred dollars right now it's two thousand for the brick but it'll be cheaper than weight as soon as it's cheaper than than mass based physics yeah yeah as soon as it's cheaper than mass based wire and there's there's basically no point to having mass based resistance so i i get very excited about that stuff because i think it's going to be really cool for gyms because i i mean i obviously come from that space but the amount of things that you can now be able to do as a gym owner now i don't own a gym right now I do own a gym, it's just not commercial.

1:00:11There's so many more things you can do with customers that like your ability to do like true hypertrophy training in a large group setting, when you have that type of resistance, it's safer. You can't get hurt on it. Like there's all these things that are beneficial for it. So I think that that's my 10-year call that people aren't expecting. I think a huge amount will be magnetic resistance. It'll be cheaper for gym owners. They don't break as often, incremental all the reasons I said, and it's less space. Dude, that was a sick answer. that was the one i was like i don't even know if i'm gonna ask him i feel like i feel like he's like i really liked writing this book and i'm like okay great no gym equipment have you seen my gym no i'll show you okay yeah that's cool yeah you'll see it and be like oh you said you're geeking out on ai anything like what's it you use it a ton what do you use it for yeah i use it a lot um i use it i mean i feel i i just say i'm ashamed i use it all the time and i am ashamed that i'm my use cases i know i should be using it better which i think many people feel that way but I feel like at all levels, everyone feels like they should be using it more.

1:01:11There should be a word for like AI guilt. Yeah, AI. I have this like overwhelming sense of AI guilt. Yeah, I think Elon has AI guilt. You know what I mean? So I would say like, I'm the most interested part that I'm in for like where I'm focused on AI is actually phones because obviously I come from the sales background. And so that use case, like I want - Like phone call? Yeah, like sales calls, customer support calls. Like right now we have fully implemented AI support and it's crushing. It's doing so, it's like, it's amazing. So right now over 90 % of all tickets are being resolved entirely with AI, which is, I mean, you have an e-commerce or multiple, right?

1:01:48Like it's so, it's amazing. And like I'm getting these thank you emails like, you guys rock. Like this was two minute response. Like you guys are on it. And like the whole thing's AI. and so i'm like that it's obviously the text-based side is there but like it's weird because the if you let you like grok 4 i'm sure you got the upgrade or whatever the voice keeps getting yeah they're so like i grok's the one i use for voice um so it's the only one that i do voice stuff with i do all the other stuff with the other ones um but i'm like why like it's so close like the latency is so close that i just i that's the use case that i'm waiting to crack like we've been working on one for a year now and the latencies but it's it's still like it's it's like not it's not good enough that i'd be like i want to waste money on you know leads for it to call but it's like maybe it's six months but that's the one that's the one that i have my most finger like on the pulse yeah that's great um yeah i dude i hired an ai tutor like basically every week because i'm like it's a full-time job to keep up with no advances the use cases etc so i said i'm gonna sit down i was like i'm paying five hundred dollars an hour yeah what you're going to do is you're going to come with a list of like blow my mind point one blow my mind point two but i get to drive yeah right because like you you set it all up but then like i get to be caveman this is how i learn everything just so you know like yeah that's how i learned how to run facebook ads i paid a guy 750 an hour and i said just explain to me how you're doing this and then i'll learn it i think literally coaches are like coaches for adults yeah is this like i don't know why there's maybe an embarrassment factor or like a lack of imagination or creativity um i think it's just like vastly underrated highest roi money also like the difference it's just like engineering right like they said like 10x engineers there's really like an average coach a good coach and like the best coaches is these orders of magnitude jumps and how good they are so the other thing people do get wrong is they just take the first coach that they have versus like be really promiscuous and like you know go date around and like go find a coach that will just like rock your world because whether it's fitness or food or what i have like probably six or seven coaches like in rotation right now in my life for ai or in general i have ai no just general okay i I have my food girlfriend.

1:03:54She calls me every morning. Helps me think about how am I going to eat today and helping me uproot all my bad habits through that. I have my personal trainer who does a very specific functional training thing that I like and I do. I got a basketball coach. There's people like, you're not going to the NBA. What are you doing? It's like, well, I love playing basketball. I decided being better at basketball is more fun. Not yet. This is more fun. It's like I can go to cardio or I can have an NBA trainer train me. Oh, it's awesome. It's way better than just doing cardio. and you know so why am i why would i not do that so i just have a bunch but like it's become to the point where it's like comical it's like yeah i'm just like looking for an excuse like no but that i mean what other coaches can i add to my piano teachers everything i'm such an advocate of this um for anyone who if we're still even rolling but um they've all left yeah they've all left no but like um i think the some of the highest ROI money you can spend is one-on-one tutoring like just like like every time i really need to learn something what you said like i just like Like, I will pay you a huge amount of money to just sit with me.

1:04:52Which, by the way, is the killer AI use case, right? So, like, that's going to be the thing where once we get it, I forgot what it's called. Have you heard, like, the Bloom Two Sigma thing? Basically, there's this long-term study. People want to fix education. So, if rich people fund, like, how do we do it? And then they go do the research. And they're basically like, the number one way to get, like, an actual Two Sigma, which is, like, standard deviation jump in outcome is one-on-one tutoring. Problem is, doesn't scale. So, they wrote it off. Yeah. So for the last 30 years, we've just been like, well, we know the thing that works.

1:05:19Yeah. It doesn't really scale. It doesn't, you know, can't be affordable. So we'll try all these other things. Yeah. But it's like, hey, wait a minute. It's bad. That's now viable. And so let's see what happens. Are you in Austin? No, I'm in the Bay Area. No, you're in the Bay Area. Alpha School. So I talked to Joe about Alpha School. And I mean, the stuff they're doing is wild. But the issues that they're encountering has nothing to do with. Education. Yeah. It's everything to do with policy. Right. Such a pain. But it's like, okay, two hours a day, we're moving at twice the speed. So that's one-fourth the time, twice the speed.

1:05:53They're moving at eight times the speed of a normal school, and their scores are top 98 percentile. So it's like eight times the speed and the quality metrics there, and then the other six hours of the day is the kid just learns whatever. They code apps. They do public speaking. They do budgeting. They learn all these other life skills. and it's like, God, did you hear, did you see that clip by Alexander Wang? Hopefully I didn't. Scale? Yeah, yeah. Which clip was it? Well, he's like, I don't want a kid until it's native. Yeah, until it's native and I was like, man. That was one of the more insane statements I've ever heard.

1:06:26Yeah. In the good, like, that's the good weird of Silicon Valley is you'll run into people, very intelligent people. He's on the edge. Yeah. Who will say batshit insane stuff with a straight face and then you're like, wait, am I insane? Yeah. Or is he insane? I can't tell. He's probably right, Yeah. But he's crazy. He has way more context on this, which is what scares me. It's like, when you have one of those, it's like, well, you have to know something. Like, if we have the same information, you might be crazy by my standards. Right. But if I assume that you are intelligent and can make good decisions, then it means you know something I don't know.

1:06:54And so that's what frightens me from the AI. Or you have different values. Yeah, exactly. But like, you know, Peter Thiel had a great, one of the great Peter Thiel, like sort of insights was when he went around and he was like, university is a bubble. And he was basically saying like, you have to look at university as a bundle. Yeah. Education, great, sure, 10%. Babysitting, maturation of 18 to 22-year-olds. Social, there's an insurance policy for parents where you're like, I don't know, just go to college. I feel like that's what I needed to do for you. And there's like a filtering thing, which is like, well, we trust that Harvard filters you, so we'll just trust their filtering process.

1:07:30So like college does all these different jobs. And his take was basically like, if you want to disrupt it, you don't just disrupt the whole thing. you have to unbundle the bundle and figure out what to do and so like i feel like this is just such a common business thing which is like oh healthcare sucks or this sucks yeah it sucks cool but until you've realized that that thing is actually a bundle yeah you really have no shot at like upending it in any way right you've got to take one part of that bundle and just 10x that yeah and figure out a way where the other stuff doesn't apply to you because you didn't promise that and if you could do all that like it works you know yeah like you know the way i think about what you do is you're a teacher on youtube which is not a surprise to you but like people think of YouTube is like either a social media.

1:08:07Okay. Maybe another is just content. It's entertainment. Right. But like, dude, I got little kids. Miss Rachel is the best preschool teacher in the world. Yeah. She has 34 million preschool students who watch her on her app. Great. Like that she is the best teacher. Therefore she should get this huge outsized number of students. Totally. And like Khan Academy was a great teacher. You're a great business teacher. Like I literally look at YouTube like it's a high school. There's just classes to offer. Like I can go to David's and get the history of entrepreneurship that's a an elective i decided yeah totally and like you're basically like business one-on-one or business whatever you know business fundamentals yeah um and it's like great i can go take business fundamentals with my professor you know and like i think when you start to look at youtube as also a bundle yeah of music and entertainment and education then you start to think about how i might use it differently than the average person right because like both you and i probably wish we started on youtube 10 years earlier yeah uh and it was the people who saw youtube as more than what others saw it that actually got that advantage Yeah, no, I think that's really good.

1:09:05Yeah, I think it reminds me of the Nevolta quote that I like a lot, which is technology democratizes consumption and consolidates production. And so it's like, which means if you're the best in the world, you get to do it for everybody. Right. And so, yeah, I actually, I think about that a lot when we talk about our channel, which is like, how do we, how do we just make this the best business content, you know, possible? And that's, I mean, that's the whole goal. It's like, if we just keep doing that, then we'll be okay. Yeah. I think you're doing a pretty damn good job of it. I appreciate it.

1:09:31The hard part is, I'm curious how you do this. Because at one point in time, I think I even talked about this on the podcast. I was like, I think he's great and smart. But then the problem with YouTube, because the goddamn views are public, is they give you an outer scorecard to use. That may not be the one you want, right? I remember once I looked at your channel and it was like, if you're broke, do this. If you don't have enough money for Chipotle, do this. And I was like, dude, he's just going to attract broke people. That's the opposite of what he kind of wants. It's easy to optimize because guess what?

1:10:00there's more broke people who are more desperate that are on youtube with a bunch of time to kill you're going to get two million views on the broke guy video but like i'm never going to click that and you probably want some people like me clicking some of your content totally and so like i think that's the challenge with youtube overall it's like if you take their metrics yeah as your metrics you might have a big problem it's a hundred percent it's uh so yeah it's a thousand percent a problem um and we it's like we just we put as many controls in place as we can and it's still tough. And so right now, here's where it gets like, let's, let's peel a layer back.

1:10:29So where it gets really interesting is that if I make six videos, this is our actual cadence, five of them, I want to be business first, business deep, whatever we want to call it. And then one out of six, I say, I'm okay to just like make it wide, brutally honest truth about whatever, right? That one video will get more views than the other five together. And so then how much does that actually weight the brand. So even if I actually think about my production versus consumption, right? So if I actually put my inputs, like I might have a 50 % philosophy brand, and 50 % or, you know, motivation, whatever you want to call it, right, like mindset, etc.

1:11:07And then 50 % business E. But in terms of my production, it's 90 % of my time is business, it just like, doesn't get the reach. And so it's actually one of the things that frustrates me in some ways, because like, if I like, if I get stopped on the street, I'm always curious, like, what was the you know, what was the thing and so but like business owners for me because like i see the people walk in the door and you have to be at a certain level to walk in there anyways it's like they are more more listening and reading uh in general and like we have the we have a whole series we do called cash gals which is kind of like what we did with the hormosia hotline but i have them in person and then i do the whole the whole thing and it's like an hour and those ones right now average like 150 ,000, maybe 200 ,000 views per video.

1:11:49But like a brutally honest million, like it's just like I could do, like we could do it right now. And like, I know what, like I know exactly what we're going to say. But when I ask who here likes those who shows up, they're like, please keep making those. And so I keep asking them just because I need the reinforcement. Yeah, of course. No, because you need an inner scorecard. I need something. The outer scorecard is only going to tell you one thing. So you have to like instrument, like an antenna yourself to get the signal that you're actually looking for in a way that's not necessarily biased, but if I don't put up an antenna, there is no generic antenna for this.

1:12:22Also a little tiny thing that may be helpful or useful, but we actually just this quarter switched our metric. So we used views as basically, the way that I did it before was like, we will make content about these topics. And then as long as they're within these topics, then we maximize views. So that's the constraint and then maximize within that constraint. We have now switched to subscriber count, subscriber growth, even though subscribers matter zero. Yeah, it doesn't matter for distribution, but it's a great quality. It's a signal of loyalty. Exactly. It's a quality score of like, I thought this was valuable enough that, so now I can still do the same constraints on the content, but then use the subscriber, because that gives us the, because subscriber still has baked into it some element of reach.

1:13:03But if I make a brutally honest video, I'm not going to get the same amount of subscribers I am as like 13 years of business advice, like one of my best videos ever. That's, but hardcore business. this so anyway just something that we've switched to just this quarter i um i have i can't figure so i i basically figured out what do i want which i can't measure so first was what do i want i was basically like i created it but like you know you know in popularity they have the q score okay so i basically was like give me the z score what's the z score the z score for me is a trust score so i was like all right probably should have a t score okay think about it but yeah it was the z score which is basically i realized that all content what you actually want is number of people reached times the quality of the person reached sure times the depth of their trust in you sure and basically that's the equation you ultimately care about so like you can reach a lot of people on tiktok but if they're just like you know if they're not the people you're trying to do like exactly you know it's you have to discount factor because you're not your second variable is not very good and then the third which is like how much do they actually trust you not like they watch that piece of content or they like that thing or they hate watched it and you're like yeah i got views but like actually they're like this guy's an idiot or like and i hate this guy so that's like that's what i wish existed now that's never gonna exist so i had to back channel it basically a shame metric so i said if uh if i make a thing do i want to go put it in my favorite group chats me myself being like i made this guys because there's a lot of shit i make that can get pop that's popular that i would be i would cringe putting it there yeah because they'd be like bro what the fuck is this that's a great we don't we don't need this or care about this like what is this for why did you put this here versus other things like i did this one thing that went nowhere viral virally i did this like i spent like two months just studying the process of creativity yeah i basically realized with ai is like productivity values going down and creativity values going up so i was like how do the most creative people in the world work i've studied elon and all those guys but i actually have no idea how you know all these other guys how they operate so i studied that i put it together and i put it out there again went nowhere kaput but i I've like internalized these lessons deeply.

1:15:03So it's still a win. But that was the one where if I put it in my group chats, my most successful peers were actually like, dude, this is actually sick. Like I actually have, I didn't know this. I took this, I needed this, blah, blah, blah. So I've had to use basically like my own cringe factor of like, do I want to put this in there? Or would I feel like kind of stupid doing that? Would I feel like I need to soften it with some context and some excuses to put it in? Yeah, that's, I think, I mean, I think what you hit on is like such a painful part of creating content is that the entire the reinforcement system leads you away from the actual business goal.

1:15:41I mean, if you do this for business, which I do, like it leads you away from your business goal, which makes it very, you just have to have a lot of discipline of like, this is the stuff I'm going to make and it will underperform and that is okay. And it gets harder when you know how to make the stuff that really hits from a views and all that stuff perspective. The more you know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but you I mean, this has been, it's probably one of the largest focal points that we have for our brand. And I feel like it's an accordion. It's like, you know, if we do just hardcore, hardcore business content, and then we'll be like, all right, let's make a little bit of personality stuff.

1:16:17Let's show a little bit. And then it's like, oh, that did great. And then we're like, oh, fuck, we're way too wide. And then like, so I think we just kind of oscillate. One thing I wish you did more of, just my personal request, was that you did something. It was like a short or something. I don't know who made this. Somebody in this room might have made this, but it was like, you were just talking about your, the gear you wear, you're talking about your shoes. Yeah, right. And I bought those shoes. My Darwin outfit. So yeah, you hold on your Darwin outfit. You're like, I can wear this in the rain, and then the pool, and then I can get out of the pool, go to a restaurant, and it works, I can go for a hike tomorrow.

1:16:45And, you know, I think that's great, because first of all, I didn't feel like, I'm trying to be the Kardashian, so it didn't feel like you were trying to show me something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just like, oh, you want to know something I do in my life? here's something I do in my life. Yeah. What I thought was interesting about that was, A, it was a good find. You'd actually put real, like, your own nerdiness into, like, doing something for your own lifestyle. So it was like, it meant something. But B, every time I wear those shoes, I think of you. And there's something to physical anchors in a digital world that, like, actually matters.

1:17:14I'm a huge believer in that. Yeah. Side note. Like, huge believer. So I think this is, like, a little sauce there. And I think the other part of it was, I, like, made a mission for the year, like a Masogi for the year. and I thought it was like, it should have been about business or like getting in great shape or whatever. But when it was like, oh, I know what I want to do. I was like, I want to learn to jam out on the piano. I was like, and so I just made that my mission and I took it like incredibly seriously and like had a great time doing it. And so just yesterday, I just turned on a live stream on Twitter.

1:17:42I was like, I think they have this feature. I just live stream myself doing like a piano practice, not even like a performance. I was just like fucking around, like trying to learn these songs. I'm not good. I've been doing it six months. Dude, I got so many DMs from like, again, the same thing, like the people who I don't want to send my content to because I'm like you're a billionaire what do you yeah how to get rich yeah right from a guy 10 times less rich than you yeah but I got them being like dude I've been wanting to practice I love how you made time for this is that what did you which one did you get what room is that who's that teacher how'd you find her do you think a teacher is better than the apps and I got so many of those that was like there's something to the lifestyle content when it's really like I got a gym equipment for example like you can probably see that I like I'll light up when I talk about it exactly if it genuinely lights you up and it It shows it's like for other success people who I don't like, I've read all the books now.

1:18:24I don't really need a lot of like how to grow my business. I'm actually pretty good at that. Sure. And so like one cool way I thought your lifestyle stuff worked was it attracted me to that where I probably wouldn't watch like 10 of the other videos. But that one I was like kind of interested in. Really interested. From a different angle. And I think you kind of turned the spigot off on that. I noticed. But like my personal request is give me 10 % of that back. Yeah. Yeah. So this is the dichotomy that has to be managed, which is the thumbprint of the creator, in my opinion, should be the representation of their current life, which means it can change, right?

1:18:55And so it's like, I spend, maybe it's like 10 % of my time is fitness oriented. And so like, maybe 10 % of my content should be fitness oriented. And then probably 80 % of my time is business oriented. Then maybe 10 % of my time is philosophical and maybe five, and this is now 105, but is relationship, whatever, right? And so it's like that, that's my mix. And maybe in a different season and it'll change. And so the content should be, I was thinking it was like, should be glass. It should be like when someone meets me, it's exactly as they expect. The only thing that fucks that whole thing up is the algorithm.

1:19:24Because I can absolutely make that, that, that thumbprint. It's just that this one will get 10 times the views. And so then if you're trying to manage the mosaic of your brand with all the little, all the little shorts as tiny little squares, it's just that you can't control how big the square is in the middle of the fucking face that you're trying to build so that makes sense but that's what i'm saying like those that thing about your shoes didn't get a lot of views but it made an imprint on me yeah i would say like i would carry more weight than like i would say a thousand random views tim ferris said this once he's like do i want 10 000 random people selected at random somewhere in the world to like my stuff or half of davos to be like to really respect what i do he's like one's a big number one's big one's big value right like which one do i want yeah i think there's something similar there and also like you know you were talking about like they have different wallets or different stomachs oh yeah it's like i only have a certain wallet or stomach for like educational business contract me reminding myself i need to do more at work yeah right but i actually have other wallet share to give you interesting on another area my fitness wallet share you could get some of that yeah you can get some of my outfit wallet share or my relationship wallet share as an entrepreneur dealing with you know busy but relationships right like so think of it maybe with your own analogy Yeah.

1:20:37No, I really like that. I mean, we need to be reminded more than we need to be taught. Yeah. So I'm with it. All right. We should cut it. Appreciate you. Thanks for having. Thanks, dudes.

1:20:59My friends, if you like MFM, then you're going to like the following podcast. It's called Billion Dollar Moves. And of course, it's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the number one audio destination for business professionals. Billion Dollar Moves. It's hosted by Sarah Chen Spelling. Sarah is a venture capitalist and strategist. And with billion dollar moves, she wants to look at unicorn founders and funders. And she looks for what she calls the unexpected leader. Many of them were underestimated long before they became huge and successful and iconic. She does it with unfiltered conversations about success, failure, fear, courage, and all that great stuff.

1:21:34So again, if you like My First Million, check out Billion Dollar Moves. It's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. Again, Billion Dollar Moves. All right, back to the episode.