How we scaled to $100M in under a year (ft. IM8 co-founder Danny Yeung)

22:53Danny Yeung:Yeah, I would say, even right now, to be fair-wise, the ads and landing pages, Prozonas, that's quite standard operating procedure right now, right? If you're a DTC brand doing$100 to$200 million, I mean, you have to be doing that, right? Yep. I think for us-wise, any one thing that we've done really well with scaling on meta ads, right now we have anywhere from 2 ,000 to 3 ,000 ads live at any given time. We're testing out 500 to 800 creators on a weekly basis. So it's that constant testing that is really, really important. And right now, the reality is, even with ad buying, I mean, ad buying is like a commodity, right?

23:33Danny Yeung:Now, before, a few years ago, you have to be really, really good at ad buying. but now Meta does all of that for you already. You don't need to do the targeting. You don't need to do all this stuff. All you need to really figure out is how do you get really good creatives and really good creative diversity on the different personas because now you need the creative to do the targeting. So tell me about that creative machine. So you said two things. You said you have a couple thousand ads running at a time. So are those like statics or those videos? Statics and videos, I would say is about 55, 60 % statics and then the rest of videos.

24:08Danny Yeung:And you're doing that with what? A studio? You're doing that with AI? What is the machine that's building all that? A combination of everything. So we have our own ambassadors. Yeah, again, we have, of course, we have like the top 10 very famous ambassadors. Then we have another thousand or more so ambassadors, affiliates that are creating lots of content for us on a daily basis, right? And that feeds the engine depending on whichever personas that we're going to. And a lot of times you have your proven winners and then it's like, how do we recreate all these proven winners? Because, you know, there's also creative fatigue that happens, right?

24:44Danny Yeung:So we have our own creative fatigue score that we identify. So we know, okay, when a ad is potentially going to get in fatigue, which then ultimately will drop that ROAS, right? Again, 300 ,000 above on a daily basis on Meta, you know, which is quite high given that we're only 20 months in, right? And we've been able to scale that. And then one key thing, again, public information, given we're public companies, that if you look at what happened in Q2 versus Q1, Q1, our CAC was$305. Our average order value is about$230. And we doubled our marketing spend in Q2. We doubled it from about$17 to$33 million in a quarter.

25:31Danny Yeung:Our CAC actually went down by$4. from 305, 301. Because you would imagine if you're doubling spend, your cash is always going to go up. And so I think we reached a point where, again, we got the engine running. The brand is also doing very well from a brand position. And we've ran now 200 plus offline events. I think this is something that I haven't seen any other supplement brand do. And why are you doing that? Because that creates content or because that creates loyalty or both? What's the main reason to do 200 offline events? I mean, it's very important for us from day one. This is about an authentic product science.

26:12Danny Yeung:And when we have these events, we have our scientific advisory board members there. They're talking about the product, right? And again, this is not just a marketing aspect. It's a real science behind a brand. They get to meet our formulators and our scientists and doctors. Last week in New York, We did like seven events in seven days, right? As part of US Open. I always say the events are very difficult to scale, right? Right. But I think that's very, very important, especially in the age of AI. You don't know what's weird. We don't know what's fake or whatever, right? And so I think having that offline presence is really important for us.

26:54Yeah, and I think that's pretty counter to where most brands are right now. I think it's so easy to sit at your laptop, fire up ads, tweak your landing page. And clearly you get the scale, you get to measure it, you get the feedback loop right away. You don't have to go get face rejection out in the real world. And it almost means that offline has this disproportionate premium because it's simply less contested. And once you've had an in-person touchpoint and then you go see an ad, it's going to be a completely different experience than if you've never heard of.

27:26Danny Yeung:And I attribute that CAC lowering when we double our spend. We're not talking about, we're talking about like a lot of spend doubling, right? And even July, our CAC fell to$239, right? Yeah. You know, which is, you know, we're spending more than$10 million a month on marketing, right? And then so it was continuing to lower, but I do believe, again, I don't have quantifiable data to say these are all offline, but I'm going to continue to double down on offline events because that's really important to the brand side of things. Tell me about some of the early days of entrepreneurship where maybe your entrepreneurial philosophy got formed or the core skills that are helping you today.

28:09Where were they first kind of originated? Where did you cut your teeth doing it?

28:13Danny Yeung:I mean, so I dropped out of high school. So I was basically a bad kid, got kicked out of high school for fighting. So I had to really learn everything, you know, on the streets, I would say, right? As an entrepreneur, you're always faced with making decisions with very limited information. And I think, you know, for everyone that knows me, I'm very street smart, right? I can figure things out by myself with very little information. Where were you going to high school? In San Francisco. Oh, you were in San Francisco. So you get kicked out. So why telemarketing? How did you stumble into telemarketing?

28:50Danny Yeung:I mean, I think I didn't stumble. I think it was like, well, what do I do? You know, I'm not going to school, right? So, and then as a telemarketer, you know, I was 15. I was good at it. I was good in, you know, kind of like cold calling people. What were you selling? I was selling timeshares. Timeshares. Yeah. Remember timeshares is like, again, this is about 30 years ago, right? So those few years where I was, I was a very bad kid, actually formed a lot of my thinking as an entrepreneur because I always had to reinvent myself, always had to go to a new school, make new friends, and get very comfortable.

29:27Danny Yeung:And yeah, I believe I can survive anywhere. You put me into Nigeria, Africa, whatever it is, I will figure it out. Yeah, the sort of more adversity you face, the more confidence you get when you survive. You know, there's another guy, Craig Clemens, who came on the podcast. good friend, great guy. He's also an e-commerce sponsor. So his company, Golden Hippo does hundreds of millions a year in sales, bootstrapped him and his brothers. He also was in telemarketing. He was selling dating products when he was younger. And, um, you know, he, he was sharing for him. One of the ways he got better at sales was he was going to these seminars and he was reading books and he was just looking for like anything he could pull out one line, one, one copywriting thing, one psychological, um, sort of hook that he could pull onto.

30:11did you do any of that or were you just brute force numbers game?

30:15Danny Yeung:I mean, you have to communicate properly, right? I think you always have to be direct and I've always kept that, right? So very transparent in terms of, hey, especially with, let's say, trying to meet someone for the first time, always tell the team, don't talk about BS, right? I think you just have to be direct and transparent. What's in it for them, what's in it for us. And again, for me, I've always, for each of my businesses, is I'm always trying to deliver greater value first. I think that's very important. I never try to look at what's in it for me. I was like, what can I help this person with?

30:49Danny Yeung:How can I help my partner? How can I help their business? And that's been my philosophy from day one. I think if you have that type of philosophy going in, it doesn't matter if the other partner doesn't reciprocate. You move in, you learn to move on. So you're telemarketing. You learn about the numbers game. You learn that you got to sort of figure it out. get street smart to figure out things to survive. And you learn, it doesn't matter who you talk to, right? I can go up to anyone and just basically, the worst thing that happens is they reject me, right? How many people would you call in a day?

31:19Danny Yeung:It was like night shift at the time when I was working. So it was like 6.30 to 10, I would say 100, 200 people. And of that, what's the rejection rate? Still going to be like 90, 95%, right?

31:37And so was that something did you have to sort of, what did you tell yourself to be able to like kind of quickly bounce back from that?

31:44Danny Yeung:No, it's just, I mean, again, it's a numbers game. You just fail, you know, basically you just tell yourself, hey, you know, the next one is going to be more likely to be positive, right? So you have to just get through it. And I think, you know, to be fair, telemarketing taught me a lot. Yeah, you have to have a dick skin. Even when you talk to investors, same thing, right? When you're early on, they're getting investment. I mean, you talk to 100 investors, you know, only five may invest in you. So there's nothing different about that. It's just you're not getting rejected, like hanging up behind you, but you're still faced with that, right?

32:12Danny Yeung:I mean, give you an example of how that came to use, right? So I was doing my hotel furniture business. I was cold calling basically MGM. Then I got a meeting and then I was able to get a meeting that I was able to deliver the value I was able to get. But without my cold calling days, I probably wouldn't have done that, right? even when I did my e-commerce business you buy I buy which was group buying I remember I went to Hong Kong and I had to go call all the merchants myself right because again you know it's not like starts off with nobody it starts with nobody right so I remember one time I was calling a big restaurant group and then director of marketing he hung up on me and I was like he hung up on me really like he was like it hurt me I was like wow this guy he said some very bad words and blah blah blah to me right and then normally he was like oh shit you probably like you know that was thinking wow who's this guy's boss I was thinking right and then I like found who's this guy's boss he was director of marketing and I cold called the office and it was Sandeep and he owned like 30 plus restaurants this Indian entrepreneur and I asked for Sandeep called the front desk he picked up the phone and I'm like hey this is Danny I just moved to Hong Kong I moved here from the US yeah have five minutes of your time because I have this interesting e-commerce idea and would love to see if I can partner with you.

33:33Danny Yeung:And then he met with me the next day for 20 minutes and he told me, Danny, I don't think your business is going to work in Hong Kong because why would I give 50 % off to customers and I only get 25 % of the check? But you know what? Because you called me after my direct of marketing hung up on you and we're still here. I'm going to work with you and give you all of my dirty restaurants and sign you up and he did that because he knew you know i didn't give up and just was persistent resilience and that changed the directory of the business because he gave me dirty restaurants and i needed one deal a day right so he gave me basically my whole next 30 days was filled by one guy saying yes and of course then i can continue but he was a big restaurant group right it was very and then i would then go to other restaurant groups because he's got him because he was so famous.

34:29Danny Yeung:Hey, Sandeep, the Any Concepts was working with us. Can you partner too? And once you get some traction, etc., then more and more people will work with you. But that's just reality. Someone has to give you a chance. And you just always have to be on the hunt. My uncle Vinny was door-to-door when he came to the country. He came to this country. He was door-to-door salesman of the Bible or I don't know what he was selling. And I asked him the same thing. I'm like, man, you were walking around in the heat in Georgia in the summers, you're walking house to house, knocking on the door, like getting rejected even more than on the phone, like to your face, door slam.

35:05And same thing, 90 to 95 % of people door slam us. He was the top sales guy. And he had a thick Indian accent. I was like, how did you do that? And he goes, oh, I took rejection better than anyone else. I said, well, how did you take rejection better? He goes, I put a price on the word no. So he said, if a yes is worth$100 to me and it's going to take me, you know, for every 20, no's, I get one yes. Then he's like, then every no is worth$5 to me. Right. And he's like, I just, so when they would say no, I would hear in my head, all right, that's five bucks in the bank. Let's keep going. And so he's like, I was adding up the no's.

35:39I was putting a price on it because I knew really like it's a numbers game. I have to keep knocking. And so I have to like sort of see each knock as a success, even though what my ears hear is a rejection. I have to change what I'm hearing. And that led him to be the number one sales guy in the country. He ended up training all the other sales guys. And I think there's a, I think there's something everybody should take from that, whether you're fundraising or whatever you're doing that like, you know, e-commerce, I think a good, like if I looked at our conversion rate right now, I think it's like 2 point something percent.

36:102%, 2 and a half percent maybe. And you know, 97.5 % of people come to our site and say, hell no. Now you don't feel it as much when it's e-commerce, but you feel it when it's over there, you know, so, So it's all a numbers game. Yes. What else? You mentioned MGM. What's the story there? I didn't understand that one.

36:32Danny Yeung:When I started first working in the hotel furniture business, I was doing hotels that were like 50 rooms, 100 rooms, small hotels, right? How small hotels change just doing all of their custom furniture. Sorry, can you go back? Why does Danny start selling hotel furniture? How does that happen? No, because I was doing my restaurant business at the time. I had a good friend that was an interior designer and she was just telling me, you know she's a designer for these hotels and she was having difficulty sourcing furniture and i was like why don't you look in china and she's like she doesn't know how to and i'm like why don't i help you and it's just like okay why don't you help me right and i just did it for her and then but after a few of the hotels i figured out you know it's the same process if i make 50 chairs or 50 tables as if i make two to three thousand chairs right so i was like who is making 2 ,000 hotel rooms right now.

37:25Danny Yeung:And at that time, it was like Vegas, right? Then I started cold calling the Vegas hotels. And eventually, I cold called MGM, and she gave me a meeting. And then I went into the meeting, and one year later, I got a$4 million contract with MGM. How did that feel, that first kind of big contract? I mean, it felt amazing. But of course, ultimately, I wanted to deliver. And so that's why a lot of times, even when we do an achievement or milestone, I always tell the team, hey, this is good, but it's not the end, right? We're just getting started, right? And it's like, even last month, if we had 20 million in monthly revenue, right?

38:04Danny Yeung:But hey, this is good progress, great progress, I would say, but we have so much greater opportunity. So, but yeah, I was of course happy that we're able to get such a big customer. When you were doing the COVID testing, you were kind of in the right place when COVID hit, where you could provide testing. You said a couple of interesting things. One, the ramp was crazy. You said you did like 700 million revenue in a couple of years, which is just a bonkers number. I'm sure there was a lot of free cash flow in that too, not just revenue. Yeah, we made over$100 million net. Net, yeah, exactly. And the second thing was, you said like in Hong Kong, like everybody who entered the country had that.

38:43Sounds like maybe you had like a kind of a really valuable key contract that you won or some sort of like a pretty defensible position. So can you tell the story of that? And also during that, did you know, well, the music's going to stop on this at some point and what happens after that? Or did you say, I don't know, let's just run and we'll figure it out when that happens?

39:05Danny Yeung:Yeah, so I can tell you the backstory on this, right? So I think this is in April, yeah, April of 2020. So COVID was getting very bad. I had a meeting with the chief executive of Hong Kong. I was like, hey, you know, we have a lab. You know, COVID seems to be getting, you know, worse and worse. You know, by the day, yeah, can we somehow provide support and make use of our laboratory, yeah, to basically to provide COVID testing to the community, right? And then, you know, the chief executive said the same at the time, you know what, you know, we have our own public health laboratory, we can do it all of ourselves.

39:48Danny Yeung:So that was that, right? And I'm like, okay, no worries. Because at the time-wise, it was very difficult to get a COVID test in Hong Kong. You would have to go to the hospital and they were charging like$300 to$400 USD for a COVID test. And then I knew the cost of a COVID test is a fraction of that, right? And they were making so much money. At the time, you don't want to go to a hospital to do a COVID test because it means that you may get infected too, right? I was like, you know what? we'll just create our own at-home PCR tests. And so we launched that within about a little bit more than two weeks.

40:21Danny Yeung:And every day we're just trying to help out the community. We're selling it for$100 US when everyone wants selling it for$400. And even the hospitals would call me like, why are you guys selling it for so cheap? I was like, I just want to help the community, right? That was the core reason for getting into it. So every single day we'll be selling out. and in July, yeah, the government actually then again called me. It's like, can we meet again? Because it was getting out of control, right? You know, three months later and they're like, Daniel, we need your help. Yeah, can you help us service COVID testing to the community?

41:00Danny Yeung:I'm like, yeah, we'd love to help. Like, yeah, what do you want us to do? They're like, we want you to test 300 ,000 restaurant workers across 18 ,000 restaurants in Hong Kong. And I'm like, how long of a time? Do you want this testing? They're like, yeah, we want you to do this in three weeks. So that was a crazy operations, right? I don't know why I even said yes to it. Again, we went from 100 ,000, 200 tests on a daily basis to now testing 300 ,000 people in about a month time, which basically meant that we had to scale out from 200 tests to 10 ,000 tests on a daily basis. And myself, my executive team, where we're all in, and there were so many people without jobs at that time, right?

41:52Danny Yeung:And then basically we started mass hiring. At one point, we had like 2 ,000 to 3 ,000 people. What was the bottleneck? Was it the actual tests, the supply chain for the test, or was it the people in the lab to read the test? Because you get the result at home, right? No, no, no, no. You get the result in the lab. Okay, so you would send it in. You have to send it in. This was before antigen tests were rolled out, right? Because early on, you had to do a laboratory test, which is the PCR test. And then the antigen test, which is the quick ones, which are less accurate, only came into play maybe one year after.

42:30I see, I see.

42:31Danny Yeung:Okay, so you said supply chain and hiring people. People, logistics, data, right? And then we were the first company contracted by the Hong Kong government to do mass community testing. And of course, six months later, there was like 14, 15 different laboratories that were also doing COVID testing. However, the thing that stood out from us is I think a lot of it has to do with my technology and e-commerce background and data and all that stuff. was we were the only testing provider that never had a f*** up when it came to false positives and false negatives. And then so when all these other laboratories, they messed up, and then the government got a lot of crap for it, right?

43:18Danny Yeung:Obviously, because if you get a positive during that time, you have to go to detention for like 7 to 14 days, right? And then so this is why at one point, every single individual that landed at Hong Kong airport was mandated a prenatics test because it wanted it to be the most secure and most accurate test. Did you have to do anything crazy to unlock the supply chain there? On a daily basis, you had to be fighting, you know, with so many different other, you know, laboratories around the world, right? You know, to get all the supply chain. So it was like every single day we're fighting. And again, a lot of times you had to just outbid them.

43:53Danny Yeung:And we have volumes, right? So again, but it was a constant battle. Those were some crazy, two, three years of craziness. Yeah. When you, so I, I want my last question, you know, I had a few friends who were doing this. I had one friend who was doing mobile testing. He had like vans that were testing. I had another friend that was doing PPE when, when you couldn't get masks and other PPE to hospitals and whatnot. And people were making money hand over fist and doing this because there was so much, I mean, there's the strongest demand I've ever seen for anything ever, right? Life or death at global scale.

44:24But some of those people, they kind of stashed away enough cash that it was still a success. And some people had overbuilt and then suddenly the music stopped. And now it's like a lot of work for nothing.

44:35Danny Yeung:So give me an example on that exact thing. It was right when we knew COVID was over, I let go of 2 ,000 people very, very fast. And that turned out to be a really good decision. because, again, during that time-wise, you had QHealth, you had Lucera, and these were, at the time, they were listed companies. At one point, QHealth was$3 billion market cap. They had a billion dollars in revenue in the US, right? Lucera, they had another, I think they were$2 billion market cap. They went bankrupt 18 months after COVID because they overbuilt. They built their own manufacturing places. They bought into the at-home testing, which never panned out post-COVID.

45:20Danny Yeung:but I knew that for both sides for a company to survive after this we needed to make a drastic cut and also for the individuals, right? What are we going to do? Why am I going to have 2 ,000 people because there's no testing? We're just going to stand around which is not good for them. Everyone has to move on with their life and livelihood and that was a very difficult decision of course but ultimately it was the right decision for both sides. Today's podcast is brought to you by my friends at Mercury. They make the world's best banking product. I think you know this already. I use Mercury for all of my businesses.

45:54I think I have like maybe seven or eight businesses. We use Mercury as our business banking across all of them. And now they actually just launched a personal banking account. So I have my personal account there. I moved off of Wells Fargo and Chase. I'm just all in on Mercury. Why? I like products that are easy to use. I like products that get me and the problems that I have. So like very easy to make a joint account with my wife. Very easy to spin up virtual cards. One click and I get savings yield. It just has all the stuff that I need in one place. So if you're looking for the best banking product on the market, it's definitely Mercury.

46:23I will fist fight anybody who disagrees with me on that. Go to mercury.com slash personal and learn more. Mercury is a fintech, not an FDIC insured bank. Banking services are provided through Choice Financial Group and Column NA, members FDIC. If you were, I don't know if you meet a lot of entrepreneurs or there's a lot of people that will come up to you that are excited about what you've done and they're trying to do something and they're pitching you an idea. What do you think most entrepreneurs just don't get? What's the one thing if you feel like you could just shake them and say, look, Ben, you just really don't get it.

46:54It's the gap between where you are and where you want to be is this. What do you think that gap looks like for most people?

47:01Danny Yeung:I think, I mean, again, going back to number one, right? You know, I always believe that if you build the best product in the market, it just makes everything so much easier, right? And I think if you look at, again, even, you know, when the COVID testing, We have the best product in the market. So if you have the best product in the market, it's much easier to build foundation, branding, positioning, premium pricing over any of your competitors. And I also believe as entrepreneurs, et cetera, you have to get into the weed of everything. I think some entrepreneurs, they don't like to get involved in every part of the business.

47:41Danny Yeung:But at least from my perspective, what's worked very well for me is I'm involved in every part of the business. Doesn't matter if we're a hundred million company, 200 million, we'll be in a billion dollars, whatever. I guarantee I'll be involved in a lot of the key, all of the key decisions. Because I think that's what separates a founder from a higher CEO, right? I think the founder, and that's why a lot of times these founders, blah, blah, blah, et cetera, they grow their business to 400, they hire a CEO. Oftentimes the founder always comes back, right? because the CEO perspective, they're always much more conservative and they're looking at this from a paycheck where the founders were able to take risks that a CEO wouldn't be able to take.

48:24Danny Yeung:So for example, even when I started IEM8, if I was a CEO, there was no way he would have been able to take that risk. But because I'm the founder, you have so much at stake here, there's no one in the organization that to take a risk as much as me. To be able to make that move, let's get into the supplement category. right? Yeah, I don't know if you've read, have you read Founder Mode, the sort of Paul Graham blog post? Yeah, I mean, I've read that. Yeah, that's correct. I think Founder Mode is very different. Correct? It's like, yeah, we see things very, very uniquely different. I think entrepreneurs, you know, really have to dive into that.

48:59Danny Yeung:Yeah. And, you know, the first thing you said about product, you know, build the best product in the market. I mean, on one hand, that sounds obvious of like, oh, well, okay, yeah. And I would say most people, everyone thinks they have a good product. Yeah, but you have the realistic, right? It's like a big difference. I tell people, how do you know? It's like, don't trust me. Just put it into a cloud. Put it into Hatchim T. What's better, IM8 or, you know, AG1, Doran, Gruens, right? Let's see what it says on a similar product, right? What does it say? Let's try it. It says, if I had to choose one today, I'd buy IM8 over AG1.

49:32So there you go. It says, it's not just 90 ingredients versus 75, because that ingredient count is mostly marketing. I think that it's currently doing a better job putting useful ingredients at disclosed, non-trivial doses in the same daily drink. And then it goes through the formula and it gives a little bit of an answer. So at least, according to ChadGPT right now, that is correct.

49:54Danny Yeung:Also, I'm going to cut that segment out and use it as an ad. That's perfect. Give me my kickback and then you can do whatever you want. Give me 10 % back. I'll be one of your TikTok affiliates. I sold my company to this guy, Mike Whitmire. And he had built the number one ranked result for buying or selling gold online. So anybody wants to buy gold, his company was the premier leader. And I was excited when we sold, because I was like, oh, you know so much about SEO. What are all the SEO hacks that we're not doing? I'm terrible at SEO. I never even tried that as a growth strategy. So I was like, tell me, tell me, what should we start doing?

50:35And after a few meetings, I was like, dude, when are you going to tell me like the hacks? And he's like, well, there's some practices. He's like, there's not really hacks. He's like, so it's like, what'd you do with the gold company? And he goes, I printed out like the page, the webpage for all of us. And I asked myself, honestly, is there a reason you should use us? Why should Google put us number one? Are we better? Are we actually better? Is it easier to use? Is it easier to understand? Is it more friendly? Is it faster? Like, do we have, are we better in any way? And he's like, we had a cold, honest conversation with ourselves that no, we were not better.

51:11And then we decided, well, we actually have to be better if Google is going to rank us higher. And slowly but surely we did, you know, one brick by brick. We just made the actual experience better until we felt we actually deserved to be number one. And guess what? Like at that point, we didn't need any of the hacks. We actually were number one. And I just remember thinking like, oh, I feel like you just taught me like a very valuable,

51:35obvious lesson that I needed to hear from someone like you. I needed to hear from the guy who could shatter this myth in my head that the guys who rank number one are always just doing these clever tricks. And it's like, there's no trick. The trick was be the best. And if you're not willing to be the best, there's no way around. You just got to go through this. And I needed to hear that at the time. Again, it starts with the problem. And I think entrepreneurs, that's how to be realistic, right? Well, isn't it right that as a founder, you basically have to alternate between delusion and realism in a way that doesn't make any sense.

52:09In one moment, you're going to have to be delusional. You're going to have no evidence, but you're going to have to have the faith. Yes. And you're going to have to believe, even though you have no experience in this, the market tells you one thing, smart people tell you one thing, but you believe another. That's delusion. And you got to be a little delulu. But then you have to switch gears and be hyper-realistic. And the guy, you know, somebody who's never delusional, they end up being an employee. And somebody who's only delusional ends up being a failed founder. It's the person who's able to shift gears between the two and know when you need to be in each mode, that's sort of the art of the whole thing.

52:42Danny Yeung:Yeah, and like you said, I had to be very delusional because I knew in my head if we put all these pieces together, we would have a big success, right? But again, going back, I didn't have any experience in this. So you had to build this with the limited information I knew at the time. Yeah. Well, Danny, I appreciate you coming on, man. You have a fun story from telemarketing to now running one of the fastest growing supplement brands in the world. And thanks for coming on. Thank you.

53:22All right, let's take a quick break. I want to tell you about Marketing School. It is a podcast that is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network, and it is run by Neil Patel and Eric Su. And these guys are both marketers who are running businesses. And so if you want real-world tactics from practitioners who are actually out there in the field doing it, this is the podcast for you. Check it out wherever you get your podcasts.