Sarah Williams - President of AIGA NY and Co-CEO of Beardwood&Co

0:08Claire:Welcome to My Life in Design, brought to you by the DBA and design-focused PR agency, Red Setter. I'm Claire Blythe, co-founder of Red Setter. In this series, I'll be speaking to more people who are shaping the world of design, finding out how they discovered that design was a thing you could base a career around, and how they got to where they are today. This week, I'm here with Sarah Williams, co-CEO and co-owner of branding agency Beardwet & Co. She's also president of AIGA New York. She served on the board there for four years, supporting the mission of championing the future of design for all.

0:44Claire:She's won awards such as DBA Effectiveness Awards, Clio's, Dylane Awards, Pack Global, spoken at conferences such as How Design Live, featured in publications such as Creative Boom, Print Magazine and Fast Co. She's worked on brands such as Hyatt Hotels, Yankee Candles, Pottery Barn, Corona, Oikos, and Vath and Body Works. But Sarah, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. So lovely to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you for coming on. I'm really excited about this. So when you were a kid, did you realize that you could base a career around this kind of stuff that you do as a designer? Yeah, it's a great question because I grew up in a very small town in Michigan, essentially the opposite of New York City.

1:25It was a thousand people, a small farming community. So anyone's idea of the words of graphic design were practically non-existent in that community. The closest thing was really laying out an ad for a garage sale in the local news flyer. But I think you know I started to discover music and as I got into my teen years punk hip-hop the album covers you know the liner notes what sort of things what kind of what were your favorites oh gosh well hip-hop's just got such a strong image hasn't it that's awesome yeah I think probably the the biggest broadest would have been the Beastie Boys just because they had such a long spanning career and incorporated all of those genres and everything from like the graffiti style to the photographers that they worked with how they layered all of that together sabotage cover

2:20Claire:always really sticks in my head the photography is amazing yeah absolutely and they had a magazine called grand royal which now a well-known designer jeff mcfetridge was an art director of and so you know when i got my hands on that i think on a sort of school trip to chicago i read it cover to cover till everything fell off, you know, a thousand times. So, you know, kind of investigating those kinds of things, feeling a connection, still not even really knowing that graphic design existed as a career. It was just sort of, this is cool. What is this? I'm drawn to it. I want to be part of something like this that awoke something within me.

3:01And then from there, it was sort of figuring out how do I make my way towards something that looks and feels like this?

3:07Claire:Yes. Did your parents do anything in the sort of creative industries or was it? So my mom was a kindergarten teacher. And I think that had its own creative aspect, right? You're running your classroom, you're thinking about how to inspire your students and connect with them in different ways. And my dad was always an entrepreneur. He had been working in kind of contracting industry, farming industry. What was interesting about that was seeing all of the just grit, sweat, trial and error. I think, again, the passion that drove him, but also a lot of the extreme challenges that come along with being an entrepreneur and someone, again, very driven by his own creativity.

3:56And even in that small town environment, they very much saw that I was drawn to art and did support that. That's brilliant. I am very grateful for that.

4:09Claire:That's fantastic. That just makes such a difference, doesn't it? Because so many people are dissuaded from going into the arts. Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up on the west side of Michigan. And on the other side, all the way over in Detroit, we got word that Pratt was holding sort of an audition where one of their representatives was reviewing portfolios from high school students. And so my mom said, OK, I will drive you all across the state to Detroit, pack up your drawings, your artwork, and we'll just go see what this person has to say. Wow. What was the drive? How long was it? It was about, I think, three hours each way to get there.

4:50That's so reasonable. It's a lot to do in a day. And, you know, for our family, Pratt was financially out of reach. But I think just the sense that my mom said, let's at least go see what this person has to say. And that I was able to get feedback and have a conversation and have some encouragement from this person opened a window to still continue to pursue art within a state university environment, which ended up being a wonderful thing. and I think just again further gave that encouragement and later on say yeah in the future it could be possible to live this dream to move to New York if I kind of keep that that nugget in the back of my mind.

5:36So they liked your stuff and did they give you like instructive feedback and you sort of helped them? They did you know I think it was a sense of seeing that there was conceptual thinking that I was trying to strive for in my work even as a high school student and trying to think about big ideas or trying to think about issues in culture. And, you know, being 15, 16, there was a certain amount of naivety to that. Absolutely. But I think someone recognizing that within your work and also the reinforcement around conceptual thinking, which is such an important part of design as well, being able to think about those big ideas and expand upon them and test them, right?

6:22Do they make sense? Are they right? Can people identify with a concept around a brand in the work that we're doing today? To have someone see that potential in your work in a conversation that's coming from a place like Pratt, it's sort of like, okay, wow. A little lightning bolt going on for me. What a great opportunity.

6:44Claire:Yeah, yeah. So what did that lead to? What was next? Where did you get into the education system? Yeah, so I ended up going to Western Michigan University and knew art and the art program and the art department was where I wanted to be. And I think what was also interesting there is growing up in a very small town, when you're into punk and hip hop and art, it's a little harder to kind of find your people, so to speak. so I think especially in the days before social media exactly so I think just number one getting there and meeting kids from you know all over the state and people who are like skateboarding and into photography and like into the same music I would that already I was just like oh my god this is amazing yeah it was the art department was in the basement of this old building and we would just be there day and night and day and night, but then found out one step further, okay, there is actually this thing called graphic design.

7:46And there's actually an incredible program here. The professor who really found it, found the program and structured the program, Tricia Hennessy had come from RISD. She had worked with people like Wolfgang Weingart. And so I just, again, I think following some of that intuition, you know, sheer luck, but that was this incredible moment where I was able to connect with, okay, design, that's how concept type photography is coming together. This is what I'm drawn to. And here's this program that I want to apply for that's really rigorous. And also finding out that people who had gone through that program were able to go on and find career pathways, whether that be in New York or San Francisco or, you know, other other places.

8:42it just kind of opened that window another step further for me to think this could be a future and I want to go for it.

8:51Claire:Yeah absolutely so what was next after that what's next in this sort of educational thing that you did what's the I don't know as much about the sort of steps in the American system. Yeah so I mean very much starting off with the foundations and back back then and And I think still today it was, you know, let's draw letter forms. Let's cut things out. Let's really tune into kind of the fundamentals and the foundations, understand. You know, I think there was a big focus on the conceptual thinking, the research, which I'm still very, very grateful for. So not just style, but also really training your eye, training your hand and those sensitivities.

9:32And then really, you know, stepping that up each level as you go, as we went through this four-year program and really a focus on developing your portfolio. And the other thing is that kind of culminated in a, they call it an externship, essentially, where we would work with different groups within the university to either help the sort of poetry faculty publish their books or other departments develop material. So we got a chance to have a bit of that client experience as well, even in college. Yeah, that's good. That's brilliant. Yeah. And then they took us on a trip to New York to visit different agencies.

10:17Did you? Who did you go and see?

10:18Claire:Was they people that are still around today? Yeah. So we visited on that trip, Landor, Interbrand. Perfect. You know, it was a really great range between larger, you know, global agencies as well as smaller independent agencies. and I think again each of those steps just made it seem more real yeah you know there still was a big jump to seeing that and visualizing that and actually getting in the door and kind of making it happen but you just have to keep taking each of those steps and yeah seeing what it's like in those environments and then you can start to visualize how do you move yourself towards being there yeah yeah absolutely yeah so how did you get your first job what was the first opportunity you saw yeah so my my first job which my first design job was yeah was at Landor and this was I graduated around the time of September 11th which was obviously a very intense time all around and had this dream of moving to New York and thinking, gosh, is that even really a possibility?

11:36And so it kind of put this big, I think, pause in the world in general. Yeah. I think agencies and any business and any human was sort of like, can we go forward? How do we carry on and hiring was a real I think question mark for any business out there but after kind of chipping away at home I substitute teaching you know applying for jobs so that was yeah talk about other jobs as well actually oh yeah before before this podcast you're talking

12:11Claire:about your sort of job at McDonald's and how that sort of influenced your idea of what a brand is today. Yeah. Tell me about that. It's funny because I go back to that job experience so often, you know, practically on a weekly or even daily basis. Really? Wow. Yeah. My first job was at McDonald's. It's I would I would literally dream about trying to memorize where the buttons were on the cash register. But I think being in that environment, firstly, design, you know, we're here to really partner with our clients, right? And there's an aspect of customer service to that. And also when you're building and working with brands, it's very much about being in tune with your customer, with your audience.

12:57So when I was there, you know, learning to work the cash register, learning how to greet that customer coming in the door, learning how to understand quickly, like what their needs were, what their orders were, how to kind of bring that together in a way very quickly that delivered on the McDonald's experience. It was a very immediate and visceral way to be part of the McDonald's, you know, brand and part of delivering that. And I think being inside an operation like that, you really see how all of the brand touch points kind of come together. So not only the human interaction and the human component of ensuring that that brand experience is coming through, but of course, the interaction of the packaging, the product itself, the built environment, what the communication is like and the menu is like and the drive-through experience.

13:56So every one of those things really is part of that McDonald's brand world or of McDonald's brand ecosystem. And it's very interesting too, because when one of those small moments in a customer's journey isn't functioning, you, you know, you do hear about it and you need to be able to deal with it very quickly. Yes. But when it is all sort of singing together, you also see that immediate sense of delight. So that's amazing. So you've got that really visceral feeling that you can actually just see the effects on people. Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, so many lessons learned from that experience.

14:34And I think something people often think, you know, it's got to you have to have that perfect resume. And yes, one design experience and one job design job builds on the next. But I also think some of those jobs like working at McDonald's or I had a job painting houses or working in a factory third shift, you know, you learn from all of these things. And I think many of those can still very much feed into how you approach your profession. Yeah. So all important.

15:12Claire:Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think it's important to see that it's not just the design jobs. It's every job, really, isn't it? working in business and dealing with people. So tell me about Landor. What was it like? So did you move to New York at that point? I did. Yeah. So very, very fortunately, after, you know, things kind of settled down in New York, I got a call from Wally Krantz, who is a creative director at Landor. And that was actually, you know, very gratefully through this alumni connection at Western Michigan University. And it was one of those things where I thought, okay, is New York just a dream that is going to fizzle and die?

15:52But it was, I think, right before Christmas. And I got, this was again, in the days of like answering machines, a message on the answering machine.

16:00Claire:Hey, Sarah, you know, Wally here. Do you think you'd be interested in an internship in New York? And I was like, oh my God. Yes. Definitely. Was it a paid internship? It was a paid internship. That's pretty good. Yes. And I think at that time, what was incredible coming to New York, coming to Landor, you know, an array of global brands, a very global team in the New York office and working across a variety of disciplines. So to me, it was like, I'm coming here to be, you know, the biggest sponge I possibly can to absolutely soak up every experience to try to also work and prove myself. And also the idea that I have colleagues who are not only brilliant identity designers, brilliant packaging designers, brilliant brand experience and kind of 3D and spatial designers because we're working on a lot of airlines and things like that.

17:05Strategists. Bringing it all together. Bringing it. Yeah, absolutely. And so that I think was also where I really got to understand the branding aspect. So not just design, but really the intersection of design and business and how those two things can inform each other. And that was this next level of excitement for me. And I think, you know, if you would have asked me in college, like, are you interested in business and learning more about the business school and the business impact of design?

17:38Claire:I probably would have been like, that doesn't sound very cool. But once you really get in there and see that and are surrounded by these brilliant people, I think you realize the true creativity and opportunity and excitement in that. And that just, again, was this another kind of blowing my head open of like, wow. Totally. I had similar things around that time. I always used to think, I just thought business was really boring. Yeah. It sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Because it's so wide. But my dad worked for the Prudential and insurance office and kind of my only real experience was going in there and seeing generally lots of men wearing grey suits and that kind of stuff.

18:21Claire:I always kind of looked at it and thought, I mean, he loved it, but I could never imagine myself doing anything like this. It's so dull. I know, yeah. Obviously, he loves it and it wasn't. But it all seemed really grey to me and I didn't really like it. It was my first job at an ad stroke brand design agency. It blew my mind. There was like colour in it and people weren't wearing suits and there were really talented people creating stuff and it just blew my mind. I've never seen anything like that before. Yeah, yeah. It's sort of you feel like, yes, there is a process, but you get the sense of how ideas are really built and formed and built off the ideas and creativity and insights of all different people coming together with different perspectives and the, you know, kind of the dynamite that happens in the best way possible in those spaces.

19:15And if it weren't also for Landor, that's where I met Julia Beardwood and Ryan Lynch.

19:22Claire:I love Julia. She's fantastic. Yes. And I love Ryan as well, but I just know Julia better. And, you know, that was obviously massively impactful, a huge turning point in terms of meeting my two business partners, Julia. So the three of you worked together. What roles did you have at Landor? So Julia was an executive director, very, you know, super senior leadership. So, you know, when I started as an intern and moved into senior designer role, you know, she was someone I, when I first started, I looked to and just like, wow, Julia, brilliant, you know, and kind of very intimidating. But you can imagine you'd be like future business partners.

20:09Yes. You know, as you get as I got to know her work alongside her more. And I think, you know, again, having someone like her recognize the potential within me, that was incredibly meaningful. And I think what was really interesting, Ryan had been there for a few years at the point when I started. But he had both built up time with working with clients and kind of an account capacity, but then really transitioned into building the strategic and innovation practice for Landor New York. And, you know, I think, again, that takes this incredible bravery to say this offering does not exist right here.

20:55I'm going to build it, create it and make it something that's a capability. And so, again, somebody who I felt was incredibly dynamic, incredibly brilliant and had a lot of awe and respect for. And again, down the road, seeing the idea that we're here working together, it's truly a dream.

21:21Claire:Yeah, absolutely. So how did it all happen? And how did the three of you, I suppose that's a big question, isn't it? Because it's over a long period of time. But how did it happen that you now run Beardwood together? Yeah. So Julia had been, I think, around at seven or so years of working incredibly hard at Landor and being an incredible leader. I think at that point she said, you know, maybe it's time to sort of take a little break from this and think about a more consultative role, doing things on my own terms. Yeah. And that led to, you know, once she sort of stepped away and transitioned into that space, people reaching out to her saying, I would love to work with you on brand strategy work.

22:06And that started to kind of build this potential and possibility or people that she knew in her network, clients like Bath and Body Works. And it builds up into an effect of, okay, now there's a foundation. Julia, you've helped us create some of this strategy that we're so excited about. Now can you help us bring this to life? So around that point, I had been at Landor for about four years. And I was starting to think about my next thing. Could I find a place that I wanted to go next? Maybe that was a little bit more intimate, a closer connection to the clients, a closer opportunity to lead in a different way versus a bigger global branding agency.

22:56And, you know, talking around, interviewing around, and then kind of get this call from Julia saying, hey, Sarah, I think there might be some opportunity here. Are you interested in chatting more? And we got the conversation going. how exciting yeah and I think at a certain point it felt like there was this momentum that there was enough design work to essentially create a salary for me yeah enough of a runway right so it's like yeah let's let's take this leap and as I was thinking about it compared to trying to find another perfect agency to hop into with Julia it felt like the opportunity to build something

23:39Claire:with her yeah and was it scary at all or was it just it felt like the natural or maybe both well I you know in a way both because you know I think when you're starting a new job or a new opportunity you never know really what's going to happen exactly it's it's always an experiment and I think I for me it was okay this could lead to something amazing or it could be like longest term freelance-ish gig that, you know, looks like a full-time job on paper. But I think as we started working together, we hired, I hired an intern on my first day. Did you? You know, as we were able to continue to build that momentum and kind of study organic growth, each year we saw that potential to kind of grow and and scale and see that opportunity expand and that gives you you know that builds on your confidence to continue to do more so I feel very grateful number one that from the beginning she brought me in in a way that felt like I was part of it and first employee then wow that's fantastic yeah and I you know feeling part of the conversation and decision making with her yeah but also for me as somebody I very much had admiration for yeah so you had that sort of mentorship yeah yeah and then in parallel Ryan had left Landor and went to work at What If which is a large innovation agency yeah they do and Amazing stuff.

25:21Yeah, yeah, amazing work. And he had done that for about four years going all around the world, sort of parachuting into, you know, various places and problem solving. And then it kind of came time where he was like, okay, I've run around the world.

25:38Claire:Yeah, he's done that now. and sort of like hey you know we're like hey ryan you think you might be ready to kind of come come over here and play with us and he was thankfully that's so good yeah so that really kind of was how the three of us rejoined forces that's fantastic yeah yeah and how long ago was that when was beardwood formed what's the so i should know this we're i as an agency i think officially we're at about 22 years 22 okay i just had my 20 year anniversary right that's what i was thinking of yeah okay yes it it feels literally like you know two years it just goes by so fast yeah it really does definitely yeah are there any particular clients you've worked on at that you're particularly proud of or not that you have favorites but you know what I mean

26:40yes I think one I go back to quite often which was interesting again because it started in our I would say our earlier years as an agency but it was working with Weston hotels and this was you know, now we live in a total wellness economy where every brand, every product, everything we touch has sort of a wellness promise to it. But I think Weston was very much ahead of that and especially in the hospitality space. So they found us through a kind of a shared listing in the marketing community. And we were sort of shocked, you know, like, really, you found us, you know, through a referral network.