Bilt Card 2.0 and the Points Math: What’s a “Good” Return in 2026?

13:53Sally French:I will say generally I hate cards that don't let you have the cash back option because there's so many people who for whatever reason can't travel. So I say just get the cash back and do something with it. And then also the expiration dates, nuh-uh.

14:06Meghan Coyle:So built cash actually expires at the end of the calendar year, but you can roll over$100 to the following year. So they're really forcing you to use it on a regular basis. Let's talk about how you can use it. So there are some redemption options where one cent of built cash gets you one cent of value. So that's considered good.

14:25Sally French:Right.

14:26Meghan Coyle:But the big redemption option that everyone's talking about has to do with this new 3 % fee for earning points on rent or mortgage payments.

14:34Sally French:So this is the one that we really need to dig into because, of course, use your built cash, get that Barry's Bootcamp class. Totally good. But should I use my built cash to pay this fee, please, Megan? Tell me about it because I'm stressed and confused.

14:47Meghan Coyle:Okay, so we're going to get into the math portion already. Here we go. You need to cover a 3 % fee to earn the full one point per dollar on your rent or mortgage payment, right? But all the purchases you make on this card that are not rent or mortgage payments earn 4 % bill cash. Okay. I'm going to totally simplify this for you.

15:10Sally French:Please do.

15:11Meghan Coyle:You basically need to spend 75 % of your rent or mortgage payment on your card in one month to be able to earn enough bill cash to cover your fee and unlock all the housing points. Oh, I don't do that. Yeah. Do you think people do that? I don't know. I mean, let's put this into real numbers that people can play around with. Let's do that. So let's take a$4 ,000 a month mortgage or rent payment. you would need to spend$3 ,000 a month on other purchases on the card to earn enough built cash to earn 4 ,000 built points on your rent or mortgage payment.

15:44Sally French:Unless it's something wild is happening, like, you know, my wedding planning month or I'm planning a big trip, I'm not doing that.

15:52Meghan Coyle:Yeah. And just think about it. Like, you might be losing the opportunity to earn more points on different cards. Yes. Achieve any of your other travel goals. If it isn't all with built, that could be a lot of money to put on one card.

16:05Sally French:Because I get 2.67 % cash back on another card that I use on all my general spending. So I don't want to transfer that to built.

16:13Meghan Coyle:But there is a little wrinkle here, which is that built points are really valuable. So according to NerdWallet's valuations, built points are worth about 1.8 cents each if you're transferring them to partners for smart hotel or flight redemptions. We're talking like the World of Hyatt redemptions, maybe a really good Alaska Airlines redemption. There are so many ways to use Bilt points, but I think it is relatively reasonable to expect you could get 1.8 cents in value from them.

16:42Sally French:That is a good point. If you want access to Bilt's transfer partners, and really the one that I mentioned at the top of the show is Alaska. I was planning my whole honeymoon back from Madagascar, and some of the best flight redemptions involved paying Atmos rewards points. Atmos is the loyalty program affiliated with Alaska. And I do not have Atmos Rewards points because there are no really great ways to get them. You either have to spend on Alaska card, you have to fly Alaska a bunch, but Built offers a great way to get them in that you can transfer Built Points to Alaska. And I have no Alaska points already and I have no Built Points.

17:17Sally French:So I just couldn't even use that as an option.

17:20Meghan Coyle:Exactly. So these Built Cards do give you access. And also you don't have to have a Built Card to earn Built Points. Okay, that's true. But it is probably the most efficient way to earn them. So let's get back to the math. You mentioned, Sally, that you have a card that gets 2.67 % back. Yes, I do.

17:38Sally French:That is correct.

17:39Meghan Coyle:That sounds great. I'm going to blow your mind with this next math. All right. I'm ready. I'm on the edge of my seat. Okay. So the Built Palladium card, that's the premium card. It has a$495 annual fee. That's a lot. It earns two points per dollar spent on everyday purchases. So not rent or mortgage. Okay. Okay. Let's multiply that by the value of the built points, which is 1.8 cents per point.

18:03Sally French:That's assuming that you're getting a great redemption, like an Alaska type redemption?

18:07Meghan Coyle:Right. Okay. So 1.8 times two points per dollar, you're at 3.6%. I'm already beating your cash back.

18:16Sally French:Interesting.

18:16Meghan Coyle:All right. All right. And then we haven't even considered yet that you're also earning 4 % built cash on that. So 3.6 % plus 4%, you're getting 7.6 % return rate on your everyday purchases with a built palladium card. Interesting. I haven't really done this math for myself.

18:35Sally French:I think you're kind of blowing my mind here.

18:37Meghan Coyle:Yeah, but there is a catch. Yes, there's always a catch. Tell me. Of course. So the 4 % built cash that I just added on there is not always worth four cents. Yes. There are only certain things you can use built cash for to get dollar for dollar value, or in this case, we'll call it cent for cent value.

18:57Sally French:So there are all sorts of partners that you can spend this built cash with. I'll give you some options. There are hotel bookings made in the built travel portal. There's lift credits, fitness classes, dining, home delivery, powered by GoPuff, the built collection, which is a special series of limited drops and select items from Bilt. I do think the lift is compelling, but I hate to be tied in to whatever this Bilt collection is. I don't want to get my home delivery from GoPuff. And also the fitness classes, I have my own gym thing. I do like a Berry's every once in a while, but I just don't want to have money tied up that I'm now suddenly feeling obligated to go to Berry's all the time.

19:39Meghan Coyle:Again, these are some of the things that you can redeem built cash for, for that dollar to dollar or cent to cent ratio that you want. But honestly, we don't know what some of the stipulations or restrictions are going to be. Yes. What if you can only redeem$10 of built cash at a time for a Lyft credit? Yes, sometimes they do that. Yeah, and then you have to take like a million Lyft rides a month. Like, I don't know that I want to do that.

20:05Sally French:So when would people find out the terms of all these little silly things?

20:08Meghan Coyle:We're all waiting, you know.

20:11Sally French:But it does seem like you have to be on top of it. And then also you have to remember that there's the expiration date. So if for some reason I'm doing a ton of shopping on my card in December, oh, I don't know why because everyone spends money in December. Then I have all this built cash. But then only 100 of it can roll over. I guess I got to do a lot of berries classes in December.

20:31Meghan Coyle:You're going to be super fit in December. Maybe not the worst. Really ahead on your new resolutions. Okay, but I do want to point out that this is just one way to think about built cash. This is for the optimizers, the people who want every single cent out of these points and built cash. But there are other ways to do it too. So all this to say, if you want to get the most value out of your built points, you probably don't want to pay rent or mortgages with your built card.

21:00Sally French:Interesting.

21:01Meghan Coyle:With the Palladium card, for example, you'll earn those two points per dollar spent on all your purchases. And then again, we're assuming that you can redeem those points for at least 1.8 cents apiece through Transfer Partners. Then you'll redeem your 4 % back for maybe those hotel bookings that you make in the built travel portal. I don't know. And then bam, that's how you get 7.6 % back on your purchases. And you didn't even touch the rent or mortgage payment part of this because you weren't doing that. You redeemed your built cash for something else.

21:32Sally French:So you are telling me that the card that got famous for paying rent and apparently now mortgages, you don't want me to pay rent or mortgages with this card.

21:41Meghan Coyle:Yeah, you don't have to if you want to get the best value out of it. In fact, our colleague Craig Joseph wrote about how he's going to use built cash for those better value redemptions. And he explains it really well. If you want to read that, we'll put the link in the episode description.

21:55Sally French:Okay. Craig has been all over this build news. So shout out, Craig. Yeah. And just to be clear, we talked about this last week on the show, but built cash is a different currency than built points. So already, I think these made-up bank currencies are very confusing. The number of people who have said to me, what is a United Mile worth? I would be a United millionaire if they asked me that, and I got a United Mile every time they ask me that. So built has made it doubly complicated because not only can you earn built points for spending on your card, but you also can earn built cash. To be clear, built cash is not a built point.

22:33Meghan Coyle:You can redeem the built points for this fee to earn extra points. I kind of think about it, if you simplify that a little bit, it's kind of like you're just buying extra built points with your built cash. Interesting. Okay. So that is one way you could use it.

22:50Sally French:That's not really how built frames it themselves. Built frames it as you can use this built cash to buy a bunch of stuff in their network, which are things like Barry's bootcamp classes and lift rides.

23:00Meghan Coyle:Okay. We've been throwing around a lot of numbers. I think we need to talk about the actual cards now and what these earn rates are. Yes.

23:08Sally French:Because also we have to account for the fact that these cards have annual fees, so you are paying potentially a huge annual fee to get that over 7 % return. We will talk about these cards, their benefits, and their annual fees after the break.

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25:21Sally French:And at risk of sounding like ChatGPT, because I know this is their favorite trope, We have to talk about the elephant in the room. Megan, the elephant in the room is, I got to say, the built rollout has been rough.

25:36Meghan Coyle:Rocky, to say the least. I feel like I didn't know what was happening. They would announce something and I'm trying to do all this math to figure out, is that even a good thing, what they announced? You're really trying to parse through all of this marketing language and figure out what's going on. And it is so complicated that I feel like you actually have to tell me how much your rent is, how much you plan to spend on this card before I can tell you if it's good for you or not. Yes.

26:01Sally French:And then we mentioned this earlier in the show, but midway through recording the show, Bill decided on Friday afternoon and Friday evening for our East Coast friends that they were going to change their program again. So this is just indicative of what's going on over there.

26:19Meghan Coyle:It sounds like the card has not been fully fleshed out yet in terms of all of these rewards. And that's really scary when you might possibly commit to spending a lot of money on the annual fees for this card. And even all the spending you're doing on these cards. It's a lot of work to move all those subscriptions. I hate doing that. So yes, this is a lot to consider when you're thinking about getting a new card.

26:41Sally French:Leading up to the card rollout, a lot of people were like, what is going on? Because there were so many leaks. The built subreddit, if y 'all read Reddit, you got to go to the built subreddit. I'm like Michael Jackson popcorn emoji reading that subreddit. But everyone is stressed, confused, angry, whatever over at the Built subreddit. And then with the Friday afternoon change, it just went wild. Immediately after we stopped recording our podcast and then had to go back and re-record, I was like, I am on the Built subreddit figuring out what all these people are saying. The people are not happy.

27:13Meghan Coyle:Oh, yeah. They are not happy. And also, it doesn't help that people from Built are trying to respond. And I get this too, where you're trying to respond to comments and it's just making it worse sometimes. Just admitting that you don't know what's coming next for some of these credits or the Built cash. That's been really hard to watch. So people have to know if they're going to consider these Built cards that they have to be okay with a lot of uncertainty going forward in the next couple of weeks for sure. A lot of uncertainty.

27:46Sally French:I think about the fact that you're putting so much money into not just the annual fee on this card, but you are transferring your credit card payments from those recurring gym memberships and subscriptions over to Bilt. And if something goes south because Bilt changes their terms again and you want to stop being a Bilt customer, that's a lot of work for you. This is not like you're going to a restaurant, you eat there once, it's terrible, and you know what? You never have to eat there again. when you apply for a new credit card, this is something that NerdWallet recommends you might hold onto for many years.

28:19Sally French:Some people hold onto a credit card for their whole life. My dad proudly proclaims that he has the same credit card that he's had since the 1980s, which I do not recommend, Dad. But anyway, besides that, people are hanging onto these products for a long time. You really want to be confident in the company. And I will say this rollout has not inspired confidence.

28:39Meghan Coyle:One of the things to watch as we move forward is more specifics on the built cash usage. I would also look to see if they add caps to any of the rewards rates. Like we said, some of the rewards rates can be quite high. And so we're going to see whether or not they're going to try and put limits on some of these benefits. I am very curious about the merchant specific caps on the built cash, like the lift example we were talking about earlier. I think that is something to watch as we move forward with these cards. Built 2.0.

29:16Sally French:Now, Charitable Sally will acknowledge that the company is listening to their customers. They've made changes because people weren't happy with the initial rollout, and they did pivot and add an option that might appeal to more people or different people. Built itself is framing this as, hey, we're listening to our customers. Some of the other credit card blogs and other podcasts out there, we won't say their names, but they have also been framing it that way, saying, wow, isn't it great that Built is listening to their customers? I hope that is the case. Charitable Sally says that is the case.

29:48Sally French:However, Pessimistic Sally is very skeptical about this, and I'm not so confident it's about listening to their customers as they saw all the pitchforks and they were like,

29:59Meghan Coyle:we got to do something. The customers have to do what's best for them. So Bilt can make all these changes. And if it's still not beneficial to you, then it is totally okay to opt out to not focus on earning these Bilt points if you don't want to and you don't need to. If you are happy with your credit card mix right now, that's something to keep in mind.

30:22Sally French:Yeah. So, you know, we talked about whether or not we would get these, whether I would get these cards, what you were going to do with your current Wells Fargo version of the card, Megan. And I think where I stand is I'm just going to wait and see. I'm not going to rush into this. Bill has made so many changes in the past week that I do want to see how this all shakes out. Of course, over 7 % return on my spending is so enticing that I am not looking away, but I'm also going to wait and stick with my 2.67 % earning card in the meantime.

30:54Meghan Coyle:And I'm going to use every single day until January 30th to figure out what I should do. I'm going to run the numbers again.

31:01Sally French:Good luck, Megan. Okay, let's run through the earning rates and some of the benefits of each card real quick. Let's just ignore the built cash and housing payments thing for now. The earning structure, besides that, is quite simple. For the built blue card, it is one point per dollar spent on everything.

31:17Meghan Coyle:Which is fine. That's great. If you want to get access to Build Transfer Partners for$0, but you probably won't accumulate a lot of points that way.

31:26Sally French:Then there is the$95 annual fee Build Obsidian card. That is the one that earns 2x on travel, 3x bonus categories, so you can choose either dining or groceries. Groceries has that$25 ,000 a year maximum limit. As I mentioned, I am interested because I'm getting the 2.67 % on groceries right now.

31:45Meghan Coyle:I've also heard a lot of comparisons from this card to the Chase Sapphire Preferred card. They have the same annual fee. The Chase Sapphire Preferred has 3x on dining. Similarly, it also gets two points per dollar on travel booked outside of Chase's travel portal and a lot of similar transfer partners, including Hyatt, Southwest, United, Marriott, Virgin, Air Canada. You know, the list goes on.

32:08Sally French:Chase Sapphire Preferred does have some other compelling bonus categories. They have bonus categories for select streaming services and online grocery delivery. I'm not an online grocery shopper, but if you are, that could be compelling. There's also a$50 hotel credit and primary car rental coverage, which I do really like that benefit. The Built Obsidian has secondary car rental coverage, though I will throw that in there.

32:31Meghan Coyle:Another similarity between the old Chase Sapphire Preferred and this Built card is that the Built points are worth 1.25 cents each if you redeem them for flights or hotels in the Built travel portal. Remember those days when you could get 1.25 cents for your chase points in the travel portal? RIP points, boo. Yeah. So this card, the built obsidian card, actually all the three cards earned that 1.25 cents redemption rate in the travel portal for built. But I just find that really interesting. Like if you really miss that redemption rate, if that was the way you were using your points, you could possibly get that again with this obsidian card.

33:10Sally French:We also got to talk about these statement credits. We have talked a lot on this show about all these bougie little statement credits that are honestly annoying to spend because it'll be an$100 hotel credit, but it's going to expire and you got to remember to use it and all of this and you got to book through the portal. So this card has a hotel credit as well. Going back to the Chase Sapphire Preferred, they've got that$50 hotel credit. The built Obsidian card has an$100 hotel credit. This one also has a two-night minimum, which I find very annoying. It's also not$100 up front. It is$50 split into each half of the year.

33:42Meghan Coyle:This part I really don't like about it. I find the Chase Sapphire Preferred Hotel credit very easy to use. There's no minimum for how many nights. I literally use it every year for one single night at an airport hotel. That's just like what it was meant for, I feel like.

33:58Sally French:Fair enough. There's also the$495 annual fee built palladium card. That one earns two built points per dollar on all purchases outside of, of course, the mortgage and rent payments, like we have been saying. I think this is pretty similar to the Capital One Venture X card, which I am a fan of, as you know. And our colleague Ben did write a very compelling article about the two. We will link to that in the episode description.

34:21Meghan Coyle:It's a really good rundown. The two points per dollar is the huge selling point on this card because you accumulate points very quickly.

34:28Sally French:We also got to talk about lounges. You know I love lounges. And the Capital One lounges are so far superior. The built palladium card does give you and two guests complimentary access to priority pass lounges. I think we've said this a lot on the show, but these lounges are super hit or miss, usually super crowded. Usually you're like, thank you for this Diet Coke and cube of cheese. Whereas the Capital One lounges are like, we got caviar. So I'm not super excited about the priority pass benefit on the Palladium card.

34:56Meghan Coyle:Right. And we should mention that the Capital One Venture X card will get you complimentary access to those Capital One lounges we love so much. But I will say the two guests for Priority Pass lounges is pretty sweet.

35:09Sally French:Yes, that's true. And remember, Capital One is changing its guest access policy for the Capital One Venture X card. It's coming up so soon. That is February 1st. They will now charge for Priority Pass guests.

35:20Meghan Coyle:So if you do want to bring, you know, your whole family, like, you know, I love to bring my whole family on my Capital One Venture X card. You're

35:27Sally French:With a goon who's bringing in 12 people on one card. Exactly.

35:31Meghan Coyle:Then this card might actually work better for families or people who are just traveling with people a lot. But again, like, do you really want to bring them to a priority pass lounge? Like, maybe not in the US. I don't know. Depends what yours looks like at your airport.

35:46Sally French:And then also going back to all these coupon book credits that are very stressful to use. The built Palladium card has its own set of those. There is a$400 hotel credit. That is, again, split into half for the first and half for the second half of the year, so$200 per half of the year. They also give you$200 in built cash annually. So, again, that's what you're using to pay for these random merchants that built has decided you can spend your built cash on shadow berries. Similar to the Capital One Venture X's travel credit and their 10 ,000-mile anniversary bonus, if you use the hotel credit and the$200 in built cash, If you seriously are taking all these lifts or doing all these various classes, you can make up for the annual fee based on that alone.

36:28Sally French:We also got to mention the sign-up bonus. It is 50 ,000 built points plus automatic gold status after spending$4 ,000 on everyday purchases in the first three months. Plus, you get$300 of built cash. Reminder, since NerdWallet values built points at 1.8 cents apiece. I'll just do the math for you. That bonus is worth$1 ,200.

36:49Meghan Coyle:So we did all of that. And remember, on top of all that, every single purchase that's not rent or mortgage payment earns the 4 % cash back. So even when you don't think about the mortgage and rent payments part of this, these are really decent earning rates.

37:04Sally French:We do need to talk about Built Transfer Partners. We have been getting Alaska a lot of love on this show, but we should mention a few of the others. What else to use this for?

37:13Meghan Coyle:Ooh, a strong list of Built Transfer Partners here. My favorite of them is World of Hyatt. They are also a transfer partner of Chase Ultimate Rewards. And I have used World of Hyatt points for a bunch of hotels I've stayed at recently, including an all-inclusive in Big Sur just last month. Oh, I saw that. That was really fun. Shout out Alila. Thank you for not inviting me, Megan. Sorry. It was supposed to be a romantic weekend away. I thought my boyfriend was going to propose, but he didn't. I was like, ah. And he has been put on blast on the Built Podcast episode. Yeah, he'll listen and he knows, he knows.

37:51He's already been getting a lot of backlash for it.

37:55Sally French:What are the other bill transfer partners?

37:57Meghan Coyle:They also have Japan Airlines at a really good one-to-one transfer ratio. United, Southwest, a lot of the major hotel programs, IHG, Marriott, Hilton, and a lot of those great international airline partners that you can use those to book cheaper domestic flights even or better international redemptions. So Avianca, Flying Blue for KLM and Air France, Air Canada. These are not all of them. Sally, you're the one who updated that story with the big list.

38:26Sally French:So I wanted to make you name them. You are very familiar. The one that we really got to hammer home though is Atmos Rewards. And I know there's a lot of listeners out there who say, I don't even fly Alaska. Alaska does not fly out of my airport. I don't care. But Megan, why should they care?

38:40Meghan Coyle:Atmos Rewards has some of the best rates on flights in the One World Alliance, and they fly a ton of places. If you are trying to get to Asia, Atmos Rewards Program has tons of different redemption options there that are very affordable. And I want to say, you know, Alaska Airlines and their partner, Hawaiian Airlines, they're both in this loyalty program. A lot of people think that these are very West Coast heavy airlines, but I have been able to book some really excellent award flights for other people that live on the East Coast. So my dad and I went on a trip together. I used Alaska points to book him a flight from Wilmington, North Carolina to Dublin, Ireland.

39:20Meghan Coyle:We did not touch the West Coast at all, you know?

39:22Sally French:And he also did not do this on an Alaska plane. I'm assuming you were on another airline. You just booked it on these Atmos Rewards points.

39:30Meghan Coyle:Exactly. So I used Atmos Rewards points to book him premium economy on American Airlines. And sure, it's not the fanciest thing ever, but it was 35 ,000 Atmos rewards points. American was charging 90 ,000 points for that same seat.

39:46Sally French:Suffice to say, we love bill transfer partners.

39:48Meghan Coyle:Yes.

39:49Sally French:So Megan, I kind of feel like I'm sold. Should I get one of these bill cards?

39:53Meghan Coyle:I don't know. What do you think after hearing all the math? I mean, as a mortgage payer yourself, would you be interested in earning a couple more points that you could transfer to Alaska or Hyatt or any of these other partners?

40:08Sally French:Yes, because it seems like the overall rate is much higher. And I really hate how they make you screw around with this very complicated built cash, built reward system. I hate having built cash that I can only spend on certain things. I will not be the person who super optimizes it to get that full value because I don't even value a$40 berries class at$40, right? It's like negative$40 if I got to work out. But I do like the idea of still getting some value and then also paying my mortgage with it to get some additional value, not as much as what the super maximizers could. And shout out super maximizers.

40:46Sally French:I know they listen to the show. If that is you, I love that. I love that for you. It is though a lot of work and it's not work that I'm willing to put in. But if it is work that you are able to put in, then that is amazing and go for it. I just always say there is an opportunity cost to your own mental gymnastics and your mental sanity of remembering to spend this money.

41:06Meghan Coyle:Absolutely. And I also think it's fine to say, you know, there's a limit to how much mental gymnastics you're willing to do. If you do not want any part of this and you don't need access to these transfer partners, then that's fine. Opt out of Built 2.0. You do not have to get a card. You could join the program and just earn points without getting one of these Built cards. That's always an option. I also think you have to think about how these cards might fit into your entire wallet, right? Like I'm okay doing the tracking necessary to get maximum value out of my Amex Platinum, for example, a card that we talk about a lot on this show.

41:43Meghan Coyle:It has all these different credits that I have to use by all these different dates. That kind of stuff I'm willing to do. Am I willing to spend my built cash for a bunch of Lyft credits all the time. I don't know. I have a car, so I don't even use Lyft that much. So I think it's okay to say, hey, I'm already paying a lot of annual fees for something else. I'm already tracking a lot of things for something else. So I might not go with the Palladium card, even if it does have such a high rewards rate. You know what I mean?

42:14Sally French:So Megan, you currently have the Wells Fargo version of the card and you have to choose what you're going to do next. You have to choose one of these three cards or maybe just ditch entirely. What are you thinking?

42:23Meghan Coyle:Oh my goodness. I am really in a dilemma here. We've done so much work in the past week on this built 2.0 launch. And I am attracted to the signup offer. 50 ,000 built points plus the built cash on the built palladium card. That seems reasonable to me. I also think I could do the obsidian card. And like I said, get the grocery bonus because I don't have a card that does that right now. So I'm between those two for me personally. And we'll see where we end up. Check back in in two weeks. I have until January 30th to choose a new card or get out of Built 2.0. And if I do it by January 30th, the transition will be a little bit easier.

43:13Meghan Coyle:You get to keep your card number, which is convenient, and there won't be any hard credit inquiry. So if you are also a Bill World Elite MasterCard holder, just be aware of that date. It's coming up soon.

43:25Sally French:Wow. All right. And listeners, I want to hear from you. And we have heard from some listeners, not yet about Bill because this episode just came out, but we have a great listener question from actually one of our producers, Hillary. She was traveling to Greece in May with her mom and she has a ton of Delta SkyMiles and Capital One Miles. She wants to know what is the best way to get to Greece on her miles? Okay.

43:45Meghan Coyle:I'm a huge advocate for traveling with your parents after that trip I went along with my dad. So that's going to be really sweet. Hilary, for you, I would look at the Capital One transfer bonus to Avianca. That's running right now through February 12th. And you could transfer your Capital One miles to Avianca to book Turkish Airlines for 34 ,000 miles in economy with just one stop in Istanbul. So that's decent if you're okay with an economy seat. And then I think if she's trying to book like business or something nice for her and her mom, I would maybe wait a little bit longer to find some of those better redemptions.

44:23Meghan Coyle:I'm thinking Emirates or Air Canada might offer some really well-priced business class redemptions to Greece.

44:31Sally French:I will also give a shout out to the episode that we did with Craig on points transfer tools, because I am a recent convert. I have found so many great flights using these tools. These are things like points, yeah, where you can just type in where you want to go. So Greece or wherever you're headed, Hillary. And you can enter in the currency that you have. So Capital One Miles or whatever you've got. And they will show you all sorts of flights. So rather than having to go on Avianca individually and look for their flights or Turkish Airlines individually, I am a convert for these tools. I know these tools do have fees.

45:06Sally French:They're like$10 or$20. My time is worth so much more than$10 or$20. So I just want to give a shout out to something like PointsYad. Listen to our show about points tools because that is really where I think you'll find the best redemptions, Hillary. And Sally, do you have any tips for Greece? You were just there, right? I was just there, but I did not fly there. I flew to Turkey and I flew there using other miles. So my other, okay, actually, thank you for asking because my tip is that if you are going to Greece, you don't necessarily need to fly to Greece. I would say if you are going to Greece, fly to the cheapest place in Europe that you can get to that is then easy to get to Greece.

45:40Sally French:So maybe you fly into Rome and then you can get an easy route from Rome onwards to Greece. And that would be so much better than trying to stretch yourself to get to Athens. Because I know Athens does not have a ton of international flights.

45:54Meghan Coyle:In fact, I think this trick is called the Greek islands trick, Sally. The one you just described. You're right. You're right.

46:01Sally French:It's like fly somewhere close. Exactly.

46:03Meghan Coyle:And then book a cheap flight to get to where you really want to go. And maybe it might be one of the Greek islands. Who knows? All right. If you also want your question answered on the show, send us an email, travel at nerdwallet.com. We also just started posting on Smart Travel Pod on Instagram and TikTok. So follow us there and we're watching our DMs. So I guess you could send us a message there as well.

46:24Sally French:You definitely can. We want to hear from you. You can send a voice memo. Tell us how you feel about Bilt. We want to know. We have been posting tons of videos about Bilt on our Instagram and TikTok. So you can also just comment your thoughts on Bilt and then everyone can see them. So that would also be super fun if you do that. Of course, also make sure to follow Smart Travel on your favorite podcast app. That includes Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio. That way you can automatically download new episodes. And if you are listening to the show on Spotify, you can comment on this specific episode right in the app.

46:52Meghan Coyle:This episode was produced by Tess Viglin and Nick Carissimi, Mixstar Audio. A big thank you to Claire Sosi and Hilary Georgie. They fact-checked this at the very last minute and helped us get all of these built things right. So thank you so much.

47:05Sally French:And of course, our disclaimer, we are not financial or investment advisors. This info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes. It may not apply to your specific circumstances.

47:15Meghan Coyle:We hope you're inspired to keep your passport full and your wallet even fuller. Thanks, everyone. We'll see you next time.

47:33Meghan Coyle:iCloud, GPUs for agentic AI. Bring AI inferencing closer to users everywhere. Get started at akamai.com slash GPU.