CFP vs. CPA vs. CFA: The Only One Most People Need

19:13And then how much you got in those? Each of them has 10 grand. OK, look at that. That's a big jump. OK, good. Yeah. But like the reason I opened a robo, actually, after listening to Sean shared his experience, because I think you have a robo account. I do. Yeah. And I was like, oh, maybe I should open that. So I did that. We're influencing people. Yes.

19:34Sean Pyles:I still really like my robo advisor account. I've had it for years and it's been really helpful for me. So what about your final individual account? Yeah, it's the SoFi robo account. OK, two different robo accounts. How much is in the SoFi account? The SoFi, that one is baby. That one's like$1 ,200. Okay. Yeah, it's recent. Yeah. When did you open that? Like a few months back. Oh, okay. Yeah. Got it. Why'd you open that? Yeah. Well, because SoFi is my bank, so I thought that might be a little bit easier to just like direct deposit to the account so I can see it. Yeah. One thing I like about you, Belle, is you're not afraid to open an account and start investing.

20:14You'd be shocked how many people are afraid to start. So you have started 10 times and I love that. Amazing. I know. Maybe I should, you know, dial back a little bit.

20:24Sean Pyles:Again, I'm not your financial advisor. I'm not telling you what to do with your investments, as you've heard us say a million times on the show. However, I think you probably consolidate some of these accounts. Like the Robinhood account seems like just something that is maybe weighing on you that is not doing a lot currently given the balance in it. If you close any of these accounts because they are individual accounts, you're going to have a tax consequence. And so with that one, with the Robinhood, for example, I mentioned long-term capital gains. That's what you're going to be paying if you've had the investments for a year or more.

20:54Sean Pyles:And the tax rate on that is less than you would have for something like your new SoFi account. Because you've had it for less than a year, that's going to be short-term capital gains, which is basically just your own personal income tax rate. So if you wanted to close an account just to tidy things up, that would be a pretty easy one to close, the Robinhood account. The Schwab accounts, how are you feeling about them? Are you okay with them being there? I like them. I was actually, after doing those exercises, because you asked me about the cost of the fees. Yeah, I had to come on. I wanted you to get some information.

21:26Yeah, so I realized, wow, the SoFi actually charged me like 0.25 % versus the Schwab is free. So I think what I would probably do is maybe just leave the money in the SoFi robo and then wait for a year plus and then maybe just close and transfer it to.

21:48Sean Pyles:I've similarly had personal gripes with the fees that SoFi charges me because I have a Roth IRA through them. I've moved over to a different platform that I use primarily for my robo investments. And it has lower fees because the thing is that fees can eat into your returns tremendously over time. so Schwab having no fees and that could save you potentially tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars over your lifetime of investing one thing I want to direct you to Bell is that NerdWallet has an investment fees calculator so you can put in how much you have in each account a potential rate of return what different fees are and you can see over time how that might eat into or potentially enable greater growth in your investments just based on the fees alone so I'll send you a link to that after this we'll have one in the episode description but play with that just to see what it really might be depending on your Schwab or your SoFi account.

22:33So, Val, I'm wondering, how do you contribute to all of these accounts, the investments, the retirement accounts? Like, what's your strategy? My retirement accounts, they're the 401ks. The employer will just take it out for me. So I don't have to worry about that. I think I contribute like 13%.

22:52Sean Pyles:Do you get a match? So I recently switched jobs. So then I have to wait for a few more months for them to match. a vesting cliff there yeah yeah not a fan of those i want you to get that free money now right i do want those free monies but they're not giving to me at this point eventually yeah i don't have any like actual like percentage i just put five hundred dollars into one account okay for your investment accounts yeah that's interesting which account is getting that money right now well it's the the swab okay well again it has no fees so i'm happy to hear that yeah it It just it takes like three business days to show up and I'll forget that like I did that and then I have to like invest.

23:34So that's really why I opened SoFi.

23:38Sean Pyles:Is it direct deposit into the Schwab account? It's not. Okay. That might be a really easy way to basically accomplish what you wanted from your SoFi account. You can just do automatic transfers. At least my investment account allows me to set those up and I would be shocked if Schwab didn't allow you to do that too. That way you can just say, OK, on the 16th of the month, I want a certain amount of money to go into this account. And it'll just automatically pull from your bank account. And even though you're banking with SoFi, it should be compatible. That's the strategy I use. So I only have a handful of accounts, including one brokerage account.

24:09I have two investment accounts and then or rather retirement accounts and then an HSA and whatever. But yes, I do exactly what Sean said and just automate it to those accounts so that it's easy for me to manage. So what do you think you're going to do? Are you going to consolidate some of the accounts, close some of them? leave them as they are? I think the Robin Hood, I'm definitely going to close because that's the one that like I forget I have them. And then every time I sign on, I have to like try to figure out what my passport is. I actually have a question for you guys. So I have like two 401ks.

24:40One is from my previous employer and then one is my current employer. Is there like a benefit or, Or maybe you would disagree, like rolling over the 401k to my current 401k or maybe roll to a backdoor IRA? It's a matter of preference. So some people might choose to leave it with their former employer, but you do want to be careful about fees again. Sometimes employers will charge more if you no longer work with them, or rather the 401k plan will, and then your fees will be higher. So maybe you want to look into that. You could always do a 401k rollover and roll it into your new 401k just to make everything, again, neat and tidy and ensure everything is in one place.

25:18So it's a matter of preference and you want to think about fees as well.

25:21Sean Pyles:Yeah, and also investment options, too, because if you roll it into an IRA, you might have more investment options available to you. Again, with hopefully lower fees because some former employers will charge you more because you're not working there anymore. Also, rolling over accounts can be a little bit of a headache. So just be prepared for some administrative annoyance if you're going to do that and try to do what's called a direct rollover where the plan administrator is rolling it into whatever new account you have. Otherwise, you'll be ending up with like a paper check for the balance of your 401k and you just don't want to have to mess with that.

25:54Sean Pyles:Are you feeling kind of overwhelmed or like you're forgetting about these 401ks or what's driving the push to consolidate just besides thinking that it might be easier? I think it's just probably easier. And then, you know, the more I listen to your podcast, the more things that's going through my head. So it's just every week I have a new idea. Yeah, well, I'm happy to hear that. I mean, I think you could really benefit from doing it just to have simplified accounts because having 10 right now is a lot to manage. I like the idea of you looking into an IRA, whether it's a backdoor Roth or it's a traditional IRA, just for the investment options that you might have available to you.

26:29Sean Pyles:And you could look at an IRA from either SoFi or Schwab. I mean, there are loads out there. We have Roundup Sonderwald that you can check out, too. and just seeing what might be best for your situation because having the account sit with your former employer probably isn't doing a ton for you. Yes, it's growing in the background, but you can't contribute to that account anymore. As you get nearer to retirement, which is still a ways off for you, it's always a good idea to consolidate your account so you don't forget about them. The first job that I have when I moved back to the U.S., I had a 401k.

26:57I did not have a lot of money in there. I left the job in under a year and I didn't know anything about personal finances to rather retirement savings at the time. And what I learned now is I had a low balance. So they just automatically closed my 401k account and they sent me a check in the mail. I thought it was free money bill. I was like, woo,$1 ,500 or whatever it was. Time to ball out. And I spent the money bill. Yes. So I know you're not going to do that because you listen to our podcast. Don't do that because you'll get taxed by the IRS. You still have to pay taxes on that money and you'll have to pay penalties too.

27:30And none of us want to pay either. So for anyone out there listening and watching, don't do that. So if they do close the account, you have a timeframe to deposit it into a new 401k or do a rollover. But don't spend the check. Don't do that.

27:42Sean Pyles:So, Belle, you have all these different accounts in different locations. Do you currently have any sort of system that helps you look at all of them in one place? Like the NerdWallet app can help you do that or other tools that are out there just so you can see, okay, yes, maybe you do have 10 different investment accounts, but you can see all the balances of them in a single dashboard. Are you using anything like that right now? I use Copilot. That app is a little bit finicky. It's like you constantly have to like re-approve from it. Oh, yes. Yeah. That's annoying. Yeah. And one of your main annoyances with all these accounts is just the administrative burden of logging in all the time.

28:16Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's tiring.

28:18Sean Pyles:So that's a hiccup with a lot of apps like this is that you'll have to re-authenticate the connection. Sometimes you just don't feel like doing it. And then six months go by and you're like, wait, what's my balance on this account? I haven't logged in. Exactly. So I get that, that can be kind of a pain. So yeah, it's a good idea to keep some sort of aggregator tool in your back pocket so you can look at your account all in one place, even after you consolidate them. And hopefully if and when that happens, it'll be easier to remember your password. Or you could just go back and just start writing them in a notebook like I do.

28:46Yeah, I have to put it in my notes and then lock it.

28:50Sean Pyles:Yes, a locked note or a password manager. Those are really great ways to secure your passwords and have them accessible. So there are options out there. It's just about finding the system that works best for you. Well, Belle, we have talked about a lot of stuff here, your favorite animal. We've talked about CPAs and CFPs and 10 accounts. So what do you think in conclusion you're going to take away from this? And what are you going to do next? I'm going to have to ask for like the references review of these financial professionals. I didn't know I can do that. So I'll do that. I will try to consolidate a few individual brokerage accounts and then look into rolling over the previous 401k to a different account, especially if there's advantages like saving on the fees and kind of more options for investments.

29:39Sean Pyles:Well, you've got your homework. Yeah, a lot. Well, we like to hear from listeners and viewers who come on the show. So please send us an update. And we will be doing another Where Are They Now episode. So maybe you'll be featured on there, Belle. We want to hear about how your business goes. We want all the juicy updates. Yeah, for sure. Hopefully you can keep me accountable in 9 to 12 months and see if I actually did it. Okay. We'll set a reminder. We'll be in touch. Belle, thank you so much for coming on and talking with us. Yeah, thank you for having me here today. We will be back in a second, but make sure you actually come back because we're going to be talking to our economist, Elizabeth Renter, for the last time.

30:21And she is going to be sharing what she's learned about the economy over the past decade plus.

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32:51Sean Pyles:All right, let's get to our weekly money news roundup where we break down the latest in the world of finance to help you be smarter with your money. We have a very, very special segment today. Nerd Wallet's economist Elizabeth Renter is heading off to new pastures. Yes, I am bringing out the sad emojis. Liz, we're going to miss you. Oh, thank you. So we're going to be bringing her onto the show for the last time, at least as a fellow nerd, to share her insights about what she's learned about the economy over the past 12 years with us. 12 years. That's so impressive. And our news colleague, Anna Hilhosky, is joining us in the conversation.

33:28Sean Pyles:Hey, Anna. Hey, Elizabeth. Hey, Sean, Elizabeth and Liz. Liz, you and I started at Nerval around the same time, also 12 years ago, if you can believe it. And after spending more than a decade studying Americans' finances, what's one thing you understand about money that you didn't when you started at NerdWallet? Well, first off, shout out to the class of 2014, Ana. There's still a handful of us 12-year-ers here left at NerdWallet. A lot's changed in 12 years for me. Number one, my credit score has gotten way up in my time at NerdWallet. But I would say one of the things that I've really learned is how incremental changes add up over time.

34:05So when I'm talking about like mid to long term financial goals, those little steps that you take really do have value and really do gain steam with time. And if you could give your 2014 self one piece of advice about money, what would it be? I think it would be learning what I just said a little bit sooner. And even if I could go back before 2014 and tell myself that, like the small changes that you make over time make a big difference in the long run. Because when you're, you know, working towards long term financial goals, whether that's an emergency fund or buying a house or saving for retirement, those little steps that you take every paycheck or every month kind of feel like you're going nowhere.

34:41But they really are going somewhere. And it would be reassuring to know that earlier. Also, that setbacks are normal when we're talking about these long term goals. And so like unexpected car payments, sending a kid to college, like all of these things might feel like they're totally derailing your progress, but they're really not. It's just sort of like a pause in the path. Yeah, I had not even started saving for retirement before I started at NerdWallet, so I completely understand that. Now, we often talk about the economy as if it's one thing, but people's experiences can be wildly different.

35:12What's the biggest disconnect that you've seen between headline economic indicators and how households are actually doing? Right now, the big disconnect that I see in the sort of conundrum that I spend a lot of time thinking about is consumer spending. So consumer spending is really robust and it has been really strong for the past few years, despite people feeling bad about the economy. And we typically know that when people feel bad about the economy, they spend less and they save more. And we're just not seeing that in the data. I think some of that can be explained by what we know as the K-shaped economy now, where the people with wealth and the high earners are really driving that spending.

35:47But my concern is that low and lower middle income people might be struggling and relying on debt to continue spending despite feeling bad about the economy and sort of the look of their household finances. But that consumer spending puzzle is one that really interests me right now. Has there been kind of like a transition in what people have been spending on, say, six years ago, pre-pandemic to now? Well, I'm not sure about pre-pandemic to now. I think right now spending does sort of resemble pre-pandemic. There is some question as to whether the whole of consumer behavior when it comes to continuing to spend has been shaped by the pandemic.

36:22So recall after the pandemic how there was this period where everybody was like, YOLO. I guess we were saying that back then, but I wasn't. Clearly, it didn't come out naturally. But, you know, when you were spending on things that you couldn't during the pandemic, and it seems like perhaps maybe some of that has stuck around. And so we are continuing to spend more on experiences and being a little more laissez-faire about what it could mean for our future finances. Is there anything that surprised you when it comes to how Americans think about money? What surprises me is the persistence of a perspective in a certain demographic.

36:56And what I mean by that is if you have ever been in poverty, and I don't mean just like dealing with high prices and feeling like you've spent all your money at the end of the month, but true poverty. You know that struggle can really make you savvy in really interesting ways. That hardship drives some creativity in how you manage money and how you manage debt and how you think about those things. So what surprises me about how people feel about finances is within the group of people that have never experienced that poverty or seen it firsthand, there's this persistence to not understand that.

37:29Like, why are people using debt? You know, why are people relying on payday lending? And they just don't seem to get it. It surprises me, I think, because right now I feel like we are more empathetic as people now than, you know, in the recent past. But the tendency for that sort of attitude to stick around has really surprised me. There's a lot of personal finance advice we sling around here, obviously. What's one piece of conventional personal finance advice that holds up, in your opinion? Save money. Sure. Put it as succinctly as possible, right? Put money away. Save what you can and start early.

38:03And I think that is like the simplest advice. And it is maybe the most conventional, but I also think it's the most valuable, whether you're talking about the value of having an emergency savings or starting a retirement savings early. Anna, like you, I didn't start until I got here. So I am still playing catch up. When you're in your 20s, you really don't see that payoff coming. So it's easy to put it aside. And then also, if you don't have a consistent income, it's hard to get started. So I'd say saving what you can and starting as early as possible is sort of like the go to personal finance advice from my perspective.

38:37Our advice is always like six months of emergency savings, but really any kind of emergency savings helps. It's better than nothing. Absolutely. I think it goes back to what I was saying earlier, which is those incremental steps really do matter and they do add up. So yeah, if you don't have an emergency savings and you're starting with$50 a month or whatever the case may be, that is progress. And what type of typical advice have you become less convinced of by over the years? The American dream of homeownership. So I can sense like a collective nodding in the listening audience because it is so hard to buy a home right now.

39:11They are expensive and there aren't very many out there. And so the people that are coming of age right now and feeling like, oh, this is sort of this necessary step in making it as an adult, that's really discouraging. And so I feel like owning a home can be a good investment. Over my adulthood, I bought three. The first one when I was 28, but that was 2006, right? That's right before the housing crisis. So if that gives you any idea of my home price, it's a different ballgame now. And I think holding yourself up to this standard that you have to buy a home to make it as an adult, you're going to be disappointed.

39:44I rent now and I am super happy renting. So I think, you know, owning a home can be a good investment, but it is not the end all of financial achievement. That makes me feel a lot better, Liz. So thank you. No problem. That's something we've talked about before, but you've spent a lot of time looking at the gap between economic data and how people are actually feeling about the economy and their finances. What have you learned about why those two things can tell such different stories? There's a lot of reasons. It's a big topic. I think the biggest thing that I see repeatedly on the gap between the data and how people are feeling about the economy really boils down to the macro aggregates that we use to measure the economy miss the nuance.

40:25Inflation actually is starting to look like it might be coming down now. And the labor market is still relatively steady when you're looking at these macro aggregates, but that's not missing the issues that households are having, right? If there's 4 % unemployment, that's historically low, but that's over 7 million people that are looking for a job and can't find one, right? So we can say unemployment is low, and 7 million people are going to be like, what? No way, because that's not their experience. So I think a lot of that disconnect is between these big picture numbers that we use to judge the health of the economy missing what individual experiences are having.

41:00And is there something about the economy that you think Americans pay too much attention to and something that they might pay too little attention to? Some, if not many people, may be paying too much attention to those macro numbers that I just mentioned. So I'm an economist. I look at them, but I also practice really good compartmentalization when it comes to thinking about my own finances. What's happening in the economy could be really great or it could be doom and gloom, but I can't let that impact necessarily my immediate decisions or how I'm feeling about my financial security. So I would say if there's something you might be paying too much attention to, it's those macro big picture headlines.

41:37And then something people could pay more attention to, the flip side of that, their personal situation and the things that they can control. Yeah, money is very personal. Now, a big theme in your work is financial resilience. What does being financially resilient actually look like to you after seeing the data on how people weather economic shocks like layoffs and inflation, the kind that we've been seeing over the last few years? It's not just about your ability to withstand economic trouble from like a financial perspective, but it's also about your feelings about your finances. So financial resilience has to do with how confident you feel in your ability to handle those economic setbacks and how much control you have or feel that you have over your financial decisions.

42:20But then it also has real measurements, right? Like, so do you have savings on hand? Should somebody lose a job? Or can you rely on credit if need be? So I think resilience is really a matter of a bunch of things, both those that can be measured with numbers and checkboxes and those that are more sort of subjective. Speaking of measuring resilience, NerdWallet's latest Consumer Financial Resilience Index barely budged from July to August, even with high inflation, a weakening labor market and renewed geopolitical uncertainty. Can you talk about what the latest findings tell us about the financial health of American households?

42:56It goes back to macro numbers. We really believe macro numbers are shaping households and their conditions when those macro numbers really don't tell the full story. Right. So the list of things you just rattled off, for example, we could, you know, infer that if inflation is so high and it's hard to find a job, then people and households are not going to be very financially resilient. But those big macro picture headlines, again, are only telling this sort of like national average picture that definitely doesn't touch each household. So our index features both feelings and real factors. So we're asking people about their confidence and do they feel secure?

43:39And then we're asking them if they have a thousand dollars in an emergency fund. So I think when you pair all of those things together, the index can fall subject to that gap between data and sentiment. But I do feel like it's a really good measure of what's going on, boots on the ground in individual households across the country. Now, if someone listening is trying to make, quote, good financial decisions, but they're feeling overwhelmed by those big scary headlines out there about the economy, what would you tell them to focus on? Only the things within their control. I mean, like you don't really have control over the unemployment rate or inflation.

44:11I mean, as far as economic policy goes, you can exert some control in the people that you vote for and following that trail from the data to what you have control over. But I would say focus on what you can control in your personal finances. So what you're saving, what your long term professional or income plans are and how you're managing debt. You know, you have to just learn when and how to tune out those big headlines. And what would you tell them to tune out? Number one, tuning out doesn't have to mean staying blissfully ignorant. I hear people say that, especially in regards to politics right now.

44:42Well, I just don't talk about it, right? It doesn't have to be that way. Like you can stay abreast of the economic news and not have an impact your well-being or your state of mind as long as it's not impacting your actual household financial picture. What I use is compartmentalization. Like I use the headline economic picture to do my job and to communicate what's going on in the economy. But I don't like when I'm sitting down to pay bills, you know, grumble about inflation the whole time or anything like that. So I think learning to tune out the noise and to judge like, OK, what's impacting me right now versus what is just what's going on in the broader economy.

45:17And some of that is also tuning out the noise and learning to really hone in on the facts. Right. Like gas prices are something that affects you regularly, but maybe import export data isn't. Exactly. Totally. All right. Let me jump in here and join the conversation because I have thoughts and something I'm thinking, Elizabeth, every time that you come on, I'm reminded that the economy has seasons, but the financial principles that we teach, the fundamentals don't change much. Right. So I think that's something that helps me, whether it's high gas prices, groceries being out of control, rent prices going up.

45:50The only things I can control, like we're saying, are my income, my expenses and my debt in some situations. So I think those are kind of just the pillars that we all have to hold on to. Absolutely. I mean, things are going to change in the economy throughout the year and year over year. But I think really staying true to their own financial philosophy, I guess, and your long-term goals and recognizing like, hey, my retirement balance might change as the stock market moves. Like it might get worse. Generally speaking, it'll probably get better again. Like, you know, learning how to ride out those headlines is a good thing to keep in mind.

46:21Sean Pyles:Yeah. And something else that stands out to me, thinking about your experience at Nerdball and all you've done over these past 12 years and your work as an economist is how you really deeply understand how complicated the economy can be. But to your point at the beginning, that it's really important for everyone to focus on the simpler things, like really spend less than you earn, save and invest the rest. And that's kind of what you came to at the very beginning. And I think focusing on that and tuning out some of the complexity while understanding that there are a lot of factors pulling the economy can help people just navigate these things day to day and maybe not feel so bogged down and bad about the economy.

46:55Right. Absolutely. Like we don't have to all be fascinated by all the ins and outs of economic theory. We are inundated with information all over the place. We don't all have to be experts. And I think you're right, Sean. I think focusing on sort of the stuff that's impacting you is the way to go for the vast majority of people. And can I just say that you need to quote, I'm going to misquote you, but you said something about the pause in the journey, like when you first started out and how we have all these plans. And sometimes you might have a big expense, but, you know, hopefully if you're doing the right things, you still end up where you need to be.

47:25And that was such a relief for me because I've recently been looking at my retirement numbers again. And I'm like, oh, my God, how much do I need to save to retire in 10 years? Close your ears, managers. And, you know, I'm just like, oh, my gosh, you know, and worrying. And it's just like, it's all going to work out. It's going to be fine. Just keep doing what you're doing. It'll all work out in the end. Yeah, definitely. Keep plugging away at it. All right, Liz, I'm going to miss you so much. I'm going to get a little misty eyed here. But do you have any final words of wisdom? I don't know. I feel like we covered all of my words of wisdom, guys.

47:56But, you know, thanks for having me on all of these times over the past several years. I mean, it's been great. It's been fun to watch the podcast grow. And hopefully when I'm wearing a new hat somewhere else, I can come back for a visit sometime.

48:07Sean Pyles:We are already looking for excuses to drag you back on Smart Money. So I'm sure we'll talk soon, Liz. Ana, Liz, thank you so much for coming on. And Liz, we are going to follow you wherever you go. So we're going to be stalking you on LinkedIn. I don't know if you're on social media, but I'm going to go find out so that we can continue seeing your work. Excellent. Thank you so much. And that's all we've got for this episode. Remember, folks, send us your money questions. You can leave us a voicemail or text us on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-NERD. You can also email us at podcast at nerdwallet.com or leave us a comment on Spotify or YouTube.

48:42Join us next time to talk about home buying through a queer lens. But until then, we want you to follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app. That might be Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.

48:55Sean Pyles:Here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances. Some companies mentioned in this episode may be NerdWallet partners, but does not influence how we talk about them. And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.

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