In short
Whether a defined-benefit pension is enough for retirement, and how to decide additional savings in a 401(k)/defined contribution plan when job income and retirement timing are uncertain.
Guests
Anna, a Portland-area journeyman inside wireman electrician with the IBEW (licensed via Oregon/Washington tests, five-year apprenticeship). She earns about $128K gross, expects a defined-benefit pension around $1,400/month, and also has an employer 401(k) plus an optional Roth/401(k) she contributes to ($6/hour then $10/hour).
Key claims
Pension amounts depend on employer contributions tied to hours worked and multipliers (entry age/years, early vs full retirement). Because variables exist (possible layoffs, job demand, health/injury, contribution stability), she should run scenarios (best/base/worst) using NerdWallet’s retirement calculator and consider fee-only planning with Monte Carlo simulations.
Notable examples
Intel cutbacks causing about 1,000 electricians to be out of work locally; union job assignment via ranked calls; 401(k) access at 55 if retiring from the same employer.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOAnna's Journey into Electrician Work
0:06 to 1:19
Anna shares her background and experiences as an electrician.
“As of 2026, renters and homeowners can also earn up to 1.25x points on their housing payments.”
Anna's Journey into Electrician Work
2:35 to 4:42
Anna shares her background and experiences as an electrician.
“So let's get to hear your story a little bit more before we go into all the numbers and everything.”
Pension and Financial Security
4:42 to 6:00
Discussion of Anna's pension details and her salary as an electrician.
“Basically, it had never occurred to me that I could do a trade until one day a lady showed up to do work on my house.”
Retirement Calculations and Projections
6:00 to 8:07
Anna discusses her retirement projections and financial needs.
“You estimate that your benefit will be around$1 ,400 a month.”
Job Stability and Economic Factors
8:07 to 10:46
Exploring job stability as an electrician and economic influences on employment.
“and I continue contributing at the rate I'm contributing to the things I'm contributing to, including the Roth IRA also, then I would wind up with around$1.8 to$2 million.”
Planning for Uncertainty in Retirement
10:46 to 14:03
Discussing the challenges of retirement planning and maintaining financial flexibility.
“there have been around a thousand people out of work for the last year due to cutbacks at Intel and other chip manufacturers.”
Navigating Retirement Savings and Goals
14:03 to 21:05
Discussion around retirement savings strategies, including pension benefits and taxable accounts.
“Well, then you're out of work for more than a year.”
Mindset and Financial Security
21:05 to 23:02
The conversation shifts to the psychological aspects of financial security and managing anxiety about the future.
“So I'm left wondering, why don't you feel secure?”
Setting Medium-Term Financial Goals
23:02 to 25:06
Exploring the importance of medium-term financial goals and the benefits of consulting a financial advisor.
“And again, you've built so much security just having that one year's worth of expenses saved up.”
Halloween Spending and Budgeting
28:01 to 31:00
Learn about the costs and budgeting strategies for Halloween festivities.
“And listen, I'm a Brit in this moment as I speak, but you Americans are crazy about Halloween.”
Show all 12 chapters
Thanksgiving Travel and Budgeting
31:00 to 33:38
Understand the importance of planning and budgeting for Thanksgiving travel.
“I'm not saying that you have to go crazy and start over, I don't know, thinking it.”
Setting Financial Goals and Boundaries
33:38 to 36:23
Discuss the significance of setting financial boundaries and making tough decisions.
“Remember the charity party where I had people come around and that was really sweet.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Sean Pyles:The following is a paid sponsorship, not an endorsement by NerdWallet's editorial team. Today's episode is sponsored by Bilt.
0:05Elizabeth Ayoola:You've heard me talk about Bilt as the loyalty program that lets you earn points on rent wherever you live, and they just leveled up even more. As of 2026, renters and homeowners can also earn up to 1.25x points on their housing payments.
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0:51Sean Pyles:Your housing payment is most likely your biggest expense. Make it your most rewarding. Find the card that fits your lifestyle and apply today at joinbuilt.com slash smartmoney. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash smartmoney. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Terms and limitations apply.
1:10Elizabeth Ayoola:Subject to approval and eligibility. Built cards are issued by Column N.A., member FDIC, pursuant to license from MasterCard International Incorporated.
1:21Sean Pyles:Fall is the perfect time to refresh and reorganize your space. At the Home Depot, find power tools and tool sets starting at$50 to help tackle DIY projects, home updates, and more. Whether you're drilling brackets to support new shelving or sharpening your hedge trimmer blade with an angle grinder, the Home Depot has the tools you need to check projects off your list. Shop Labor Day savings at the Home Depot and gear up for fall projects with the right tools to keep your projects moving. Does having a pension really mean you're set for retirement? Today's guest is an electrician who has a pension that can net them$1 ,400 a month, but they aren't sure how much more they might need to save on their own.
2:03Sean Pyles:Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Piles.
2:10Elizabeth Ayoola:And I'm Sean's co-host, Elizabeth Ayoba. We are live in Portland, Oregon today, shooting wonderful episodes for you. And today we have a guest with us, and her name is Anna, and she has a defined benefit plan, also known as a pension. And she wants to know how much more she needs to save in defined contribution plans like a 401k and the like. Hello, Anna. Welcome to Smart Money. Hi.
2:35Sean Pyles:So let's get to hear your story a little bit more before we go into all the numbers and everything. You live in Portland or Portland area. How long have you been here and what do you like to do here? I live in Portland. I moved here in 2017 from New Mexico because I was tired of the sun. It's beautiful here. I love it so much. I love doing all the outdoor stuff and I love the food scene here. And all the clouds. And all the clouds.
2:59Elizabeth Ayoola:Well, you have to tell me what outdoor stuff because people like paddle rowing, row paddling.
3:04Sean Pyles:Stand up paddle boarding. Thank you. Oh, not that. I lack the coordination required for that specifically, but I like hiking. I'm really into cycling, so that kind of thing. And you're an electrician. What kind of electrician are you? I'm a journeyman inside Wireman with the local IBEW. There are many different classifications of electrician, and so you have to be licensed, and each state has their own requirements. I completed a five-year apprenticeship program and took the Oregon and Washington journeyman's test so that I'm licensed in both states. Each state has their own specialty code. So each state gets to decide, like, we like this about the National Electric Code.
3:48We don't like that about the National Electric Code. So you have to be versed in your state's specific requirements as well as the National Electrical Code.
3:56Sean Pyles:On a day-to-day basis, what does your work look like? You're not laying wire, are you? I do pull a fair amount of wire, pretty much anything that's required. Right now, I currently work in a medical setting, like doing renovation type work in an occupied hospital facility. So that involves a lot more attention to details that are not necessarily related to being an electrician, but more like being mindful of the space you're in and keeping things safe for everyone.
4:26Elizabeth Ayoola:Anna, last week I was on TikTok. Sorry, I went from so serious to TikTok. But I came across some posts about women in blue collar work. And I was so fascinated. So they were doing electrician work, plumbing. How did you get into this field? Is it something you always wanted to do? And also what caught my attention is them saying that they're earning six figures doing blue collar work and more women should get into it. Absolutely. Basically, it had never occurred to me that I could do a trade until one day a lady showed up to do work on my house. And I was one of those overeducated, underpaid kitchen workers at the time.
5:00And I was like, oh, I could get into the apprenticeship. And I could have a real career. And it's really so rewarding to make and do things that have a tangible beginning and end. I knew I would be making an okay salary, but I didn't really plan it all out. I just knew that it was better than what I was doing. The union apprenticeship is really good. It steps up your wages as you progress and you work and go to class one day a week. It's just incredible. I would not be in this position right now. I make around$128K gross.
5:38Sean Pyles:Beyond your salary, which that's a great salary, you also have access to a pension. I have access to a pension. I have health insurance. That was really big. Having good health insurance is really incredible. And it's complicated, just like having retirement stuff is complicated, but it's so much better than the alternative. I'm so grateful. I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't become an electrician. So talk with us about your pension. You estimate that your benefit will be around$1 ,400 a month. How do you get to that number? They send me documents. I can't remember if it's quarterly or no, it's annually, I think, that shows one's accumulated benefit.
6:17And your benefit is calculated based on your employer's contributions, which is calculated based on the hours that you work. and then there's a multiplier when you entered the trade and how many years you have worked and also there's a multiplier for if you want to retire early versus if you want to retire 65 I think is full retirement age for that plan there's the pension plan and then there's a 401k that is also employer sponsored a lot of electricians a lot of trades people want to retire sooner because it's a more demanding job that you really...
6:55Sean Pyles:Physically demanding. Yeah, like I can't envision myself doing it past 60. Okay. Yeah, I have a defined benefit plan, a defined contribution plan that my employer pays into based on how much I work. And then there's an optional 401k that I contribute to of my own volition.
7:15Elizabeth Ayoola:How much are you contributing to the defined contribution plans and how did you come up with that number? When I became a journeyman, I decided to start contributing$6 an hour because that was 10 % of my salary. And lately, I bumped it up to$10 an hour. I don't know if I can sustain that because I'm taking home$400 less per paycheck. So does your budget feel very tight right now then? Mm-hmm. Have you used the retirement calculator at all? because I know the crux of your question is how to know how much more to save, aside from the pension benefit that you may be paid in retirement, how much more you need to save in your 401k and other defined contribution plans.
7:58Elizabeth Ayoola:So have you played around with the retirement calculator? I have. Okay. Hopefully it was nerd wallets. Yes, it was actually. A win is a win.
8:05Sean Pyles:And what did you see there? Well, the whole thing is, is it's like, well, if you retire at 60, and I continue contributing at the rate I'm contributing to the things I'm contributing to, including the Roth IRA also, then I would wind up with around$1.8 to$2 million. And I'm like, well, that sounds crazy, but the world is crazy and I don't know.
8:27Elizabeth Ayoola:And have you thought about how much you actually need in retirement for yourself? Have you done any of those calculations? Were you just kind of like, well,$1 million sounds good? I definitely have looked at it with the whole consideration of I'm currently spending around$60 ,000 a year. And if I repay off my mortgage early, that will significantly diminish my yearly expense to somewhere around 45-ish.
8:56Sean Pyles:And when are you estimated to have that paid off? How many more years do you have? Oh, Lord. Oh. I bought my house in 2021. So in 2051. You want to retire at 60 then, is that right? And so that would be 2045, 2046.
9:15Elizabeth Ayoola:I love that you have a year. I'm too scared to say the year that I'm going to retire. Oh, my God. I struggle with feeling like I should stay invested because everyone's like, oh, well, you have to invest for your future. The stock market is the only way to guarantee you can take care of yourself in the future with reasonable returns. The only reason to not invest is if you don't believe in the system. And I fundamentally don't believe in the system. Oh, well. That's a different conversation. Yeah, that's a different conversation. I don't either. But hey, we have to live and we don't want to get to retirement if we can help it and not have enough money.
9:47Elizabeth Ayoola:So I want to quickly go back to you doing the calculations. When you played with those calculators and you said you already looked at 60 percent, was it of your expenses, what you anticipate your expenses to be? What number did the calculator give you or what number did you come up to that you need during retirement to retire comfortably? Somewhere around 1.5 to 2 million. but all of that is without taking into consideration the fact that my pension benefit will grow as I work longer. So right now I'm almost nine and a half years into the pension and I've got the benefit of$1 ,400 and so reasonably if I work at the rate that I've been working for another 10 years, that's 2 ,800 a month.
10:34So like I just, you know, there's too many variables to know like, well, what can I count on? Because you never know if you're going to get catastrophically injured or if you're going to be out of work for a year and a half. Right now in this local, there have been around a thousand people out of work for the last year due to cutbacks at Intel and other chip manufacturers.
10:57Sean Pyles:Yeah. Something that you mentioned to us when you wrote in is that your job can be very economically dependent depending on how the economy is going. Yes. Which I was surprised to hear because I assume everyone needs electricians and people to wire things. But talk with us about some of the variability there. There is a very large and healthy local. There's a lot more stability here. When I first got into the trade, I was told to expect to work about nine months out of the year, whereas I have worked all year round since I moved out here. Okay, so more stable than you actually were expecting. Definitely more stable.
11:29So for instance, Intel would keep around 800 electricians busy all the time. But with them scaling back, there's, you know, not as many projects going on to absorb that kind of manpower.
11:42Elizabeth Ayoola:And then how easy is it to get independent work as a contractor outside of these kind of projects? As a union member, you're not allowed to solicit your own work. So you go to the union hall and they will post job openings and it's a ranked system. So the first person who is out of work has the first opportunity to take the first call. and then it proceeds from there. Different calls that need to be filled will have different requirements like must be able to lift 50 pounds, work on a ladder overhead all day, things of that nature. Sometimes specialty certifications will also narrow down what kind of person.
12:24Also you get information about what the duration of the call could be, whether it's a service call, whether you need to have your Washington license, that kind of thing.
12:33Elizabeth Ayoola:I think one of the most difficult things about retirement planning is, like you said, there are so many variables. And many of us, for our sense of security, want to be able to say, this is exactly how much I'm going to need and this is exactly how much I save. But it just doesn't always work out like that. That feels like the theme of your question. You know, I have this pension. I don't know how much I'm going to make in the future. I don't know how secure my job is. How much do I need to save and how do I figure that all out? So I think one of the first places to start is with the things that are within your control.
13:01Elizabeth Ayoola:And then something Sean is always preaching is just kind of projecting different kind of outcomes. So if I save X amount, maybe you do a projection with a more conservative pension. And then maybe you also do one with a best case scenario and you do something kind of somewhere in the middle. Because the truth is you can't predict the future and you just don't know where you're going to land. But having kind of different scenarios and different pathways can kind of maybe help you feel a bit better about it.
13:25Sean Pyles:And so what are you feeling most uncertain about in this whole planning equation, which can be quite complicated? What is a safe assumption to make about how much I'll be able to contribute in the future? No one could possibly know. I never thought I would be in the position I am now financially. And I find it difficult to fathom that I could just presume that I will keep going at that same pace. What I'm getting at is hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. But what's the worst? The worst, like I told you guys in my application, I have a year's emergency fund. But what if I'm out of work for more than a year?
14:05Elizabeth Ayoola:Well, then you're out of work for more than a year. I hope that doesn't happen, right? But one of the dangerous things about living in the, I guess, shadow of the worst case scenario is sometimes you don't live because you're always in fear of the worst thing that's going to happen. A year saving is wonderful and amazing to have. I do not have a year's worth of savings, so congratulations to you. And of course, you can always save more, but I think you just have to work with what's happening now. I think you're making the right steps. You have your emergency fund. You're contributing a large amount into your divine contribution plans, and you have that pension.
14:36Elizabeth Ayoola:Having a concrete goal that you're working towards, you said it's a one-point-something million that you need to retire comfortably, is like a good path to start with.
14:44Sean Pyles:And the inverse could be what's the best thing that could happen. You already have a really secure base having a year's worth of expenses saved. That gives you a lot of flexibility. So being able to then focus the rest of your money, whatever savings you have available, into your 401k or even a taxable brokerage account could help you just shore up your retirement savings and give you more options in the future. Because I think creating more options will give you a better sense of security further down the road.
15:09Elizabeth Ayoola:And I want to ask you, Anna, are you clear? Because I think part of your question also was like, am I set to retire when I want to retire at 60? Am I close to that goal? So do you feel like you are or are you unsure about it? I feel like if I keep up the way I am, it will definitely be good to go. But what Sean said reminded me, I'm like, oh yeah, that's right. That was another facet. I have been investing in a taxable brokerage account for about the last year or so. At the rate I'm going, I am over-contributing if everything stays constant.
15:39Sean Pyles:Over contributing to your retirement accounts? The way that I'm contributing voluntarily to my 401k. Other than how much I work, there's nothing I can do to change how much is being contributed to my employer 401k and my pension. That's just a function of how many hours I work. But I was thinking, and this was like, yeah, this is the other side of my question is, should I cut back the$10 an hour I'm contributing to my 401k and maybe put some of that in a taxable brokerage account in order to shore up the what ifs? Well, you're going to get the best tax advantage by contributing to the 401ks. And so I think that that's probably going to be the best thing to do if you're not maxing that out already.
16:19Sean Pyles:A lot of workers, if you have a 401k, you can't typically access it until you're 59 and a half. However, there's a rule where if you retire from the company where your 401k is at 55, you can access that employer's 401k. So you can actually cut out four and a half years. They have to wait to access the 401k money. So you have to stay with the same company or at least, you know, have some money in a 401k until you hit that 55 point and then retire from that same company. That can help you bridge a gap between when you might want to retire, you know, 55 or 60 without having to wait until 59 and a half to access your 401k funds.
Read the full transcript
16:52Okay. So I'm assuming that the union would work the same way. Regardless of who I work for, all of my benefits are paid into my union plan.
17:00Sean Pyles:But that said, there are also other goals to invest for beyond retirement, like a more kind of medium term goal. Like I have a brokerage account that I put money in on a monthly basis. And in my mind, that's sort of my next car fund. Because I've had my current car for a while, I want to keep it for at least five more years. But I know eventually I'm going to have to buy a new car. So I keep putting money into that account thinking eventually one day, I'll be able to tap it for this. So do you have any other kind of medium term goals that you might want to use that brokerage account for? Not so much.
17:30I mean, I have the house I'm saving for the inevitable repair because my house is over 100 years old. I recently got the new car. So that's not an issue. New to me.
17:42Sean Pyles:I like that. What about things like vacations or fun money stuff? I have a vacation fund. I'm going to Rome in January. Fancy. That's fun. I have money portioned out for that. I guess I don't know what I'm doing with my life. No, you're doing great.
17:58Elizabeth Ayoola:What do you mean you're doing great you have a fun money fund I just opened my first fun money fund this year
18:03Sean Pyles:I've been telling her for over a year yeah you're doing great but I do want to go back to you saying earlier that your budget feels tight I only started trying to budget about last year basically I was like oh my god I'm turning 40 and I have to get a grip instead of budgeting by vibes I love it budgeting by vibes that's how I've lived all my life thus far but I was like no I need to like look at the real numbers and see where where where the ship is going and I realized I spend a lot of money eating out when I travel I don't really like spend a lot of money on room and board I spend most of my money on experiences and going from place to place and having a longer vacation but I felt like I needed to get a concrete plan and now that I have a concrete plan after all of my money that I'm putting aside for all the different things I'm earning just like a little bit more every week than what I'm spending.
18:57And I just, I don't know if that's sustainable. I don't know if I'm putting too much pressure on myself to like, I drastically changed my lifestyle after I did the budget. I don't even know how much I was spending eating out, but you know, I was eating out like three or four times during the week and twice on the weekends and that kind of thing. That's the
19:17Sean Pyles:Portland tax. It's, we have too many good restaurants here. Yeah. I'm like, I like to cook, but I also
19:21Elizabeth Ayoola:like to eat novel food. Well, Anna, I want to let you know, I'm not going to go four times a week, because sometimes we do that to ourselves when we take a look at our budget and we start shaming ourselves. And like you go, we go, oh my God, I need to change this thing. But you also have to, like you're doing, I think, you have to remember money is there to enjoy as well. And it's there to enhance your life in those ways. So obviously this is up to you and your goals. And it sounds like you have a very clear plan of where you're trying to go when you want to retire. But, you know, maybe there's room in your budget to reduce that savings rate just a little bit, again, depending on your goal, because you don't want to live your life feeling restricted, right?
19:57Elizabeth Ayoola:Again, some people do that, especially FIRE people, because they're working towards, I want to retire at this specific age. But if you know that it's weighing heavy on you and you feel extremely limited, it sounds like you have a little bit of wiggle room in your budget to maybe reduce your savings rate so it doesn't feel so constricted. How does that make you feel when I say that? I like that. The idea of fire is very appealing, but I probably already missed the boat on that one. No, I'm in some fire reddits and some people start late. But yes, it is a very aggressive goal, but they are restricting themselves of a lot of things to achieve it.
20:28Right. And they probably earn a lot more than me. Like, I only have so much ability to grow because it is a violation of my union agreement to work outside of their system. Yeah. And I'm fine with that. I'm fully employed. I couldn't want more. So, yeah, I mean, there's a hard cap on how much I could work in a year. I'm just like, you know what, maybe I should just enjoy life a little bit more and save a little bit less because it's a marathon, not a sprint.
20:58Sean Pyles:Yes. And also based on the calculations you've run, you're on track to be comfortable for retirement based on your pension benefit and the amount you're putting away. So I'm left wondering, why don't you feel secure? Worst case scenario, brain?
21:11Elizabeth Ayoola:Yes. Yeah.
21:12Sean Pyles:It's going to be a survival mechanism, but also a scarcity mindset can just leave you in this trap where you're constantly feeling like you don't have enough. When, in fact, based on the numbers that you've looked at, you're doing just fine. And that's often what I recommend people do is get really clear on the numbers because anxiety can be a result of having uncertainty and not really being clear on whether you are saving enough or how much you might need in retirement. But you've looked into all of that in detail. You've used the NerdBall calculator and you got some clarity on that. So that should hopefully help bring some peace.
21:44Elizabeth Ayoola:Just generally in life, when I am focused on the worst case scenario, what has helped me is, I don't know if you're into meditating or envisioning or whatever your practices are, but literally sitting with the best case scenario of everything working out. I can't guarantee you that maybe there won't be a job shortage and you may end up out of work. Who knows with this economy? Anything could happen, but you can rebound and things can get better and you can still land on your feet, right? Sometimes we make this big elaborate plan and life doesn't go how we plan it to go. It goes a different way.
22:14Elizabeth Ayoola:But in the end, everything will be just fine. So maybe take some time. I used to do this thing called future journaling as well, where I would basically sit down and journal as if I was already where I wanted to be. And I found for me personally, that really helped to reduce some anxiety that I had around the future. So maybe think about just kind of focusing on the best case scenario and enjoying all the hard work that you're benefiting from right now. Oh, my God. I didn't realize I was coming here for therapy. But apparently, I'm sorry. All my friends are always like, you should be a therapist.
22:44But I hope that was helpful. That was helpful. That's really great. I hadn't thought about it that way because I feel like I'm always sort of like, but nothing has gone catastrophically wrong and I just need to embrace that. And even if it does, I promise you life can get better.
22:58Elizabeth Ayoola:Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cool. That's so helpful. That's great.
23:03Sean Pyles:And again, you've built so much security just having that one year's worth of expenses saved up. That gives you so many options. And if something does happen, you can rely on that. Plus other things you have like your taxable brokerage account, too. So I think you're in great shape right now. Based on everything we've talked about so far, how are you currently feeling? What do you think your next steps might be? Probably trying to find something medium term, a goal that's not retirement and that's not a trip in January, like something in between those two. I think if I had something like that to focus on, maybe I could stop fixating on that doomsaying for the future.
23:37Sean Pyles:And that could even be something like, I want to have a trip every January. So that way, you know what you're saving for on an ongoing basis. It doesn't have to be, I want to buy a new car in five years. But that could be it, too. Just something to continue to work towards. So you use your money to keep enriching your life. Okay. Yeah, I guess I hadn't thought about like planning for an annual trip. That makes so much more sense.
23:58Elizabeth Ayoola:Enjoy your money, girl. You know, life is short. You're a rock star electrician. You're doing the thing. You're saving. You got a year's worth of expenses. Enjoy your life. Oh, well, something we didn't touch on. We don't have all the wonderful equipment that you financial planners use, but doing a fee-only financial planner, maybe sitting down with one, could be really helpful because they could help you map out different scenarios, like you're saying. If you end up only working five more years or if you're out of work, I don't know, and you have to retire at 50, where your retirement savings will be and how much you can contribute to each pot.
24:30Elizabeth Ayoola:So it could be really, really beneficial to sit down with a financial advisor so they can give you really concrete numbers. Okay. Get granular.
24:36Sean Pyles:And they'll really take everything into consideration in terms of when your mortgage will be paid off, what income you might be able to have from a brokerage account or your 401k and run what's called a Monte Carlo simulation where they just stress run it in the kind of best scenario, worst scenario, and see how likely you are percentage-wise to actually achieve your retirement goal. I think that could also bring you a good peace of mind.
24:55Elizabeth Ayoola:Yeah. And the good thing with that is it's fee only, so you don't have to continue using them. They can do that whole plan for you, and then you could dump them after. yes that is the plan i am very much like i could do a fee-only person yeah it could be a one-time
25:11Sean Pyles:engagement because some advisors are more an ongoing thing but plenty are fee-only or even by the hour yeah i've heard the term monte carlo simulation before and my brain just says casino
25:23Elizabeth Ayoola:it does sound like a casino well anna thank you so much for coming on to smart money we had a ball with you and we want an update. Okay. That's the only thing we ask of you. Let us know what you do. Okay. We want to know what that medium goal is if you come up with one or just tell us where you're traveling to in January. Okay. The one after Rome. Okay. Great. I can do that. Thank you so much, guys. You're welcome. Thank you.
25:52Sean Pyles:Elizabeth, I don't know if you knew this, but 2026 is over. It's basically wrapped up. I hope that you met your financial goals. You had a good Christmas. You had a good Thanksgiving because it's all done.
26:02Elizabeth Ayoola:None of that matters. My birthday's coming up. And that is why I know that 2026 is almost over because it's almost my birthday. I know. For those who don't know, my birthday is December the 18th. I'm a Sagittarius. Yes, I accept gifts.
26:14Sean Pyles:And our birthdays are exactly six months apart. Mine's June 18th. Oh! We're in the stars. Anyway, I'm joking, obviously, because it's still technically August, basically September. But it feels like this year has flown by. And I'm always trying to get ahead on big things that are coming down the pipeline. And this is that time of year where we begin to really gain momentum with the holidays picking up. Kids are back in school. It can become so easy to just let things go by the wayside and spend a bunch of money and not really have a plan. So we're going to tick through a few big things that folks should keep in mind as we get into this even busier time of year.
26:44Elizabeth Ayoola:For everyone who has looked at their financial goals or maybe forgotten about their financial goals and it's like, well, I'm already halfway through the year. There's no point in continuing to try. I want to encourage you. The year is not over yet and you can keep going. and even if you have aimed to save 100k and you only save 10k hey that's still something and it's
27:04Sean Pyles:better than nothing right now is a good time to adjust check in on where you wanted to be at this point in january are you three quarters of the way there roughly hopefully if not you're not alone that's okay but do think about how you can actually maybe put some more money towards that savings account or top off your hsa or your kids 529 to be able to hit close to that goal that you wanted to back in January. Because we were just talking about how it's so funny that we start the year out so excited. We have all this novelty around the beginning of 2026. And then a few months later, we're like, whatever, that was me in the past.
27:36Sean Pyles:I don't care about it. These goals are still worthwhile. You should be pursuing them because we need to be focused with what we're doing with our money. Otherwise, things just kind of fall apart. You don't really gain momentum or progress on your goals. Do try to do something diligently as we kind of begin to close out the year.
27:50Elizabeth Ayoola:And Sean, I found that planning ahead is key here. And you guys might be like, well, it's already halfway through the year. What am I planning? Planning for the upcoming expenses, holiday expenses, a little too early. We're not going to dive into Christmas, but we do have Halloween coming up. And listen, I'm a Brit in this moment as I speak, but you Americans are crazy about Halloween. You spend so much money on Halloween.
28:10Sean Pyles:That was another area I really wanted to talk about because I love Halloween. The past few years, my partner and I have thrown a Halloween party and that can get really stupidly expensive because you're buying decorations, you're buying snacks. I've got a fog machine I bought one year. What's a fog machine? A fog machine. It blows fog around when you're at a concert. Oh, my God. Sean, please. But I love it. I know. I bought it and I've used it each year since. So I'm like, this thing has paid for itself. But I did spend$100 five years ago on this thing, which is silly. And I've used it. It's probably got$20 per use at this point.
28:41Sean Pyles:I've used it maybe five times.
28:43Elizabeth Ayoola:It's not that silly. And it brings you joy in the party, right?
28:45Sean Pyles:Because, well, here's the thing. With the Halloween party, it's all about production value. You can't just have people sitting in a room that's just like my regular house. It needs to look like it's kind of spooky. So that's why I'm going out to Michael's and buying spider webs and all this random crap that I just throw away at the end of the party and feel wasteful about. But it's worth it for that moment when it looks so nice. I actually looked into this. Last year, the National Retail Federation did some digging into how much folks are spending on Halloween. How much was it? What's your guess on how much people are spending on Halloween, at least last year?
29:14Elizabeth Ayoola:I'm going to say an arbitrary$115.
29:19Sean Pyles:Wait, you are shockingly close. Really? The per person spending last year, again, according to the National Retail Federation, was$114.45. Where's my prize?
29:30Elizabeth Ayoola:Where is my prize?
29:31Sean Pyles:Well, if this is the price that's right, you're technically over. I'm really sorry, Elizabeth. But you're so close. And doesn't that seem like a lot of money just for Halloween, which is like a party holiday?
29:42Elizabeth Ayoola:Yeah, I have a tight budget. As you probably know, I've said it before, I grew up religiously. We weren't allowed to celebrate Halloween, so I never really bought costumes. but I let Ayo buy costumes but I'm cheap. I'm like, hey, I'm not spending more than 50 bucks and that's kind of high on me.
29:55Sean Pyles:50 bucks for a kid's costume seems a lot. Do you ever think about crafting something?
29:59Elizabeth Ayoola:I tried to one year. It was an epic failure but crafting costumes is not my lane. That can also get
30:05Sean Pyles:really expensive too.
30:06Elizabeth Ayoola:Exactly. It's not my lane. But yeah, I let him. $50 is the max I allow him to spend because guess what? He doesn't wear it again another year and it just goes in the charity box. Right.
30:15Sean Pyles:So you want to approach this holiday like anything else with a budget. know how much you should spend based on how much income and other expenses you have. Is$115 roughly a reasonable amount? For me, I think I could justify that because I really have fun with this holiday and my friends really love it and we all get in together and make it a big party. But other people might not care about Halloween, but they're getting dragged to haunted houses and hayrides. Those things can get super expensive really quickly. If you don't want to go to that haunted house because you're going to be too scared, but your friends are bugging you, just say, I'm staying at home and watching a non-scary movie because this isn't my jam.
30:50Sean Pyles:Or just stay at home and watch a scary movie because that's probably basically free anyway.
30:54Elizabeth Ayoola:I know. Just say no. Just say no.
30:55Sean Pyles:Just say no.
30:56Elizabeth Ayoola:To your friend's spooky ideas. Yes. Move along from Halloween. You guys don't throw tomatoes at me. But come on. September, October, November. Thanksgiving. I'm not saying that you have to go crazy and start over, I don't know, thinking it. But you do need to start thinking about if you're going to be traveling, if you're hosting Thanksgiving, how much that's going to cost you and start budgeting for that now.
31:17Sean Pyles:Right. I would say by the end of September, have a plan for what you're going to be doing with any kind of holiday travel for Thanksgiving. You might want to have your tickets by that point, too, if you're going to be flying. I personally am not even sure what I'm doing for Thanksgiving this year. Usually we do it in Portland and then we do Christmas with my husband's family in California. But we might be flipping it this year because we have a wedding to attend very early next year, January 2nd in Mexico. And that's exciting, but it kind of throws a wrench into Christmas plans because when do you fly around the holidays?
31:48Sean Pyles:I need to make my plan for this. So that's on my to-do list. But if I'm going to be going down to Sacramento, I need to be thinking about, am I flying there? Am I driving there? What does that mean for time off? And these are questions I have not answered yet.
31:59Elizabeth Ayoola:For me, it's going to be a matter of trade-offs in order for me to still meet my financial goals for the year. I have suddenly had friends bombard me with girls trips. One is turning 40 and she wants to do a girl's trip weekend in Miami. I have a family friend whose mom is having a 65th birthday in Florida.
32:18Sean Pyles:Two Florida trips for birthdays?
32:20Elizabeth Ayoola:I can't do both. So I have to, you know, it's like I want to, but does it really align with my goals for the rest of the year? Honestly, no, right?
32:28Sean Pyles:Send a sweet card, send a little gift. But you going out to Florida, that's going to be hundreds of dollars.
32:33Elizabeth Ayoola:Oh, you should see her weekend plan. She has something for Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. we go into the beach party to the dinner to the club all how many outfits are involved in that
32:43Sean Pyles:yeah it's gonna be the drink the hotels the flights yeah yeah but that's you staying true to your values to your financial goals for the year and you were talking earlier about just having like more control over where you're spending your money being able to save more money using your savings buckets and if you go on two birthday trips to florida that might not be possible so So I would encourage a lot of people this time of year to think about a little bit of restraint and prioritizing what's most important to you versus what other people are tugging you in the different directions of doing.
33:13Elizabeth Ayoola:Yes. And then there's still my birthday and my sabbatical. Right. So I can't do all the things at once because I'm not a millionaire yet.
33:20Sean Pyles:Right. And you did at one point talk about having a birthday sinking fund and that kind of went by the wayside.
33:28Elizabeth Ayoola:Well, I mean, it kind of got muddled up with my travel fund because usually I travel for my birthday. So no, it's non-existent right now, Sean. I don't know what I'm doing for my birthday this year. But this might be. Last year I did the charity. Remember the charity party where I had people come around and that was really sweet. And I'm actually thinking of doing that as an annual tradition. It did cost me some money because I had to produce the brunch food. So maybe I spent, I don't know,$250,$300 buying food and drinks. But I really would love to do that again. I really enjoyed giving back and everyone showed up.
33:57Elizabeth Ayoola:It was really great. But other than that, I think this might be a year that I don't travel, maybe. And I have such a beautiful community now. So I actually would be okay with just doing like a birthday dinner or something small at my house.
34:07Sean Pyles:So have you begun to map out your spending over the next few months or are you still digging into it kind of like me?
34:12Elizabeth Ayoola:I think where I am now is I know how much I'm allowed to spend each month. And it's about saying yes or no to the things that come up, if that makes sense. So I'm planning around my budget. So if it fits in my budget, sure. But I'm not going to stretch myself thin to saying yes to things that don't fit in my budget right now.
34:27Sean Pyles:In reinforcing your boundaries. Yes. Because having boundaries is a process of continuing to say yes or no to certain things. And it can be hard to exercise those in the beginning. But your budget and your happiness often depends on you saying no.
34:39Elizabeth Ayoola:Yeah. Like I'm determined to pay off my car note. I've almost paid it off. So I don't want to interfere with that goal. And also I'm still rebuilding my emergency fund.
34:47Sean Pyles:So those are things I want to, you know, tick off my list.
34:49Elizabeth Ayoola:Yeah.
34:49Sean Pyles:I mean, a lot of the actions that we take right now in this sort of like transitional between summer and fall and going into winter are going to be the decisions that make or break, whether we're actually able to somewhat meet our financial goals for the year, or if we just give in to letting it all go by the wayside, which I would not recommend doing, people. But make some tough decisions now so you feel better as you head into 2027.
35:12Elizabeth Ayoola:Oh, my God! Why would you say that?
35:14Sean Pyles:I'm sorry for saying it, but you know it's almost here.
35:17Elizabeth Ayoola:On that note, it's time to go, Sean. Yeah. You've killed the vibe.
35:19Sean Pyles:All right. Let's wrap it up. Let's wrap it up. That's all we've got for this episode, folks. Send us your financial questions wherever you want to. You can leave us a voicemail or text us on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. It's 901-730-NERD. Or you can email us at podcast at nerdball.com. You can leave us a comment on Spotify or YouTube if that's your jam too.
35:40Elizabeth Ayoola:I've been replying to the Spotify comments, so please leave more. I want to keep replying. Join us next time for an interview with J.D. Roth, who talks about getting out of debt and early retirement. Until then, we want you to follow us on your favorite podcast app that includes Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.
36:00Sean Pyles:Here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances. Some companies mentioned in this episode may be NerdWallet partners. That does not influence how we talk about them.
36:14Elizabeth Ayoola:And thank you so much to the AV department in Portland for hosting us in their studio.
36:20Sean Pyles:And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.
From the publisher
Learn how to measure your retirement progress when you have a pension and figure out how much more you really need to save.
How do you know if your pension actually has you covered for retirement — or if you still need to keep saving aggressively alongside it? Hosts Sean Pyles, CFP®, and Elizabeth Ayoola sit down with Anna, a journeyman electrician in Portland whose union job comes with a defined benefit pension — yet she isn't sure whether that's enough to retire at 60. They explore how to account for a pension when gauging your retirement progress, why pension projections can be tricky when work hours vary, how to use the three-bucket framework (guaranteed income, invested accounts, and cash reserves) to see where your plan stands, and how Social Security projections could help you figure out exactly how much more you need to save.
Pension Plan vs. 401(k): Types, Pros & Cons: https://www.nerdwallet.com/retirement/learn/pension-plan
How Long Will My Money Last in Retirement? Calculator, How to Stretch It: https://www.nerdwallet.com/retirement/learn/how-long-will-your-retirement-savings-last
Want us to review your budget? Fill out this form — completely anonymously if you want — and we might feature your budget in a future segment! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScK53yAufsc4v5UpghhVfxtk2MoyooHzlSIRBnRxUPl3hKBig/viewform?usp=header
To send the Nerds your money questions, call or text the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373 or email podcast@nerdwallet.com.
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*The show notes were created with the assistance of AI. They have been reviewed by our editorial team for accuracy and quality.
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