In short
Balancing urgent competing financial priorities—saving for a house (down payment and closing costs), retirement/early retirement (401k, Roth IRA, coastFIRE), and enjoying life despite financial anxiety and social-media comparison.
Key claims
Closing costs are often overlooked; plan ~2%–5% (possibly ~6–7% for risk-averse buyers). You can prioritize by sequencing goals rather than doing everything at once. Financial anxiety can be reduced by limiting influencer time and reframing “progress” (she’s saving 65% of income).
Notable examples
Hannah’s “piggy bank chart” for down payment; her 20% target (~80% saved) but life events (weddings, travel) delaying a “next year” purchase; discussion of ESPP discount and selling immediately to avoid holding company stock.
Guests
Hannah (24, Portland; computer engineer making ~$100k; net worth ~$200k; from Virginia; sister of Smart Travel host Megan Coyle; bouldering/outdoor rock climbing). Hosts/other voices: Smart Money hosts (Elizabeth and Sean) and references to NerdWallet calculators and mortgage brokers.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOHannah's Financial Background and Achievements
0:34 to 0:51
Hannah shares her impressive net worth and savings journey.
“It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.”
Hannah's Financial Background and Achievements
1:30 to 2:55
Hannah shares her impressive net worth and savings journey.
“Tell us what your favorite thing to do around Portland is because there's so much to take in in this area.”
Career Insights and Income Details
2:55 to 4:59
Hannah discusses her job as an engineer and income breakdown.
“And I'm hit 200K, so I just keep working towards that.”
Financial Goals: Home Buying and Early Retirement
4:59 to 7:21
Hannah outlines her short-term and long-term financial goals.
“My short term goals are to buy a house in the next two to three years.”
Balancing Financial Priorities and Life Events
7:21 to 8:27
Discussion on balancing savings for a house with life celebrations.
“I feel like a lot of life stuff comes up.”
Navigating House Buying Costs and Considerations
8:27 to 11:05
Conversations about down payments, mortgages, and closing costs.
“I don't love living in apartments in terms of space, in terms of parking, that sort of stuff.”
Investment Strategies and Financial Goals
11:05 to 13:32
Hannah discusses her investment strategies and future financial goals.
“Yeah, that's such an important point that you bring up because sometimes people focus so much on just saving for the down payment that they forget about the closing costs.”
Balancing Competing Financial Goals
14:00 to 14:20
Learn how to manage multiple financial priorities simultaneously.
“You also want to save for a house and it can be a little bit overwhelming.”
Understanding Employee Stock Purchase Plans
14:20 to 15:30
Explore the benefits of ESPPs and the importance of diversifying investments.
“Yeah, I feel like I'm funneling like 100 % of my money after tax that doesn't go towards needs or wants into a house account.”
Navigating High Savings Rates and Enjoyment
15:30 to 18:00
Discuss the challenges of maintaining a high savings rate while enjoying life.
“however way you're acquiring it, to almost be overinvested in a single company because of how much, again, time and also money you're spending acquiring these stocks.”
Show all 20 chapters
The Impact of Financial Anxiety and Social Comparison
18:00 to 22:20
Understand how financial anxiety and social media can affect financial decisions.
“Because I struggle with that too sometimes.”
Prioritizing Spending on Family and Experiences
22:20 to 24:10
Learn the importance of budgeting for family time and experiences.
“I really value spending time with family and getting to see them because they're kind of far away right now.”
Future Financial Goals and Adjustments
24:10 to 25:16
Discuss plans for future financial adjustments and goals for travel and home buying.
“If you can look out, forecast yourself in the next three, six, nine months, what are you doing with your money that might be different than today?”
Future Financial Goals and Adjustments
25:23 to 26:28
Discuss plans for future financial adjustments and goals for travel and home buying.
“Does anyone else feel like August is the Sunday of summer?”
Future Financial Goals and Adjustments
26:33 to 26:43
Discuss plans for future financial adjustments and goals for travel and home buying.
“Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.”
Planning a Multi-Country Sabbatical
28:01 to 29:18
Learn about the considerations and excitement of planning a complex sabbatical trip.
“I'm eligible for my third one in the spring.”
Travel Logistics and Credit Cards
29:19 to 31:18
Discover tips on organizing travel logistics and leveraging credit cards for points.
“So lay out what you're thinking currently.”
Budgeting for Travel Expenses
31:19 to 36:35
Understand the importance of budgeting for various expenses during a sabbatical.
“And so you'll probably want to book your travel four, three, four months in advance.”
Sean's Sabbatical Experience
36:36 to 38:08
Listen to Sean share his memorable experiences from his first sabbatical.
“And I structured it in a similar way that you were describing.”
Planning Your Own Sabbatical
38:09 to 39:34
Learn how to budget and prepare for your own sabbatical or extended time off.
“Like, what are some ways that they can budget to create their own sabbatical, if that's the thing?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Elizabeth Ayoola:This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.
0:45Elizabeth Ayoola:Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. How do you save for a house next year? retirement in maybe 20 years, and still have enough money left over to have fun. That's one of the challenges faced by our listener today named Hannah. She's saving around$4 ,000 a month, but still feels like she's falling short. Let's get into how she can hit all three goals. We are in the beautiful Portland, Oregon, and we have Hannah here with us today. And she wants to talk about how to buy a house next year, how to retire in maybe 20 years, and also financial anxiety.
1:28Elizabeth Ayoola:Welcome to Smart Money, Ana. Yeah, of course. Happy to be here.
1:31Sean Pyles:You live in the Portland area. Tell us what your favorite thing to do around Portland is because there's so much to take in in this area. Yeah, I love hiking and Portland's really known for outdoor rock climbing. So usually drive out to some boulders and go boulder around there. So very exciting. That is exciting. Also slightly scary. How do you stay safe when you're bouldering? There's like crash pads and like safety harnesses and wires and stuff. So you're a thrill seeker like Elizabeth here.
1:55Elizabeth Ayoola:I was just about to say, sounds like a fellow adrenaline junkie. Yes, definitely like being outdoors. And how long have you been in Portland? I've been in Portland now for, this is going to be two years.
2:04Sean Pyles:Okay. And you're from the East Coast originally. Yeah, I'm from Virginia originally. Okay. And I know that because you are the sister of the host of our sister podcast. Megan Coyle, who's the host of the Smart Travel Podcast, is your sister. Yes, that's crazy. Yeah. She's also on the West Coast now. So we've all kind of migrated over to the West Coast. Well, thank you for coming on Smart Money today.
2:23Elizabeth Ayoola:Of course. Okay, so we're going to start with a little icebreaker. We have done the first half of the year. So, of course, I must ask you in Elizabeth fashion, what is one financial goal that you are really proud of this year that maybe you've hit or a milestone? My financial goal that I've hit this year is hitting like 200K in net worth. Oh, congratulations. And how old are you? I'm going to be 24 this year. Okay, that's a massive accomplishment by 24.
2:50Sean Pyles:So you're 23 currently and you have 200K in net worth. I've been lucky to have good saving habits, supportive family, that sort of stuff. And I'm hit 200K, so I just keep working towards that. And is that primarily in investment accounts, retirement accounts, cash? It's like split up between two. So half retirement, half just cash.
3:10Elizabeth Ayoola:It is kind of uncommon to be 23. I was not 23 with any savings, actually. And to have that much savings. So at what age did you start to learn about finances and saving money? My sister started working at NerdWallet in 2020, 2019. And she was like, Hannah, you should listen to this podcast. And I was like, okay, sure, I'll do that. And then they were just talking about like, you know, basic financial goals and that sort of stuff. So that's how I kind of got into like financial literacy. I've been definitely working towards saving. And it's been a steady progress since like, you know, it takes time to save and build good habits.
3:42So like NerdWallet's podcast has been a great help and learning all about it has been really important to me.
3:47Sean Pyles:Well, Hannah, I want to hear about your financial and work life. What do you do for work? How much money you're bringing in? How much are you able to save? I work as an engineer out in Hillsborough. So basically working on like computer stuff. I think right now I make about$100 ,000 annually. So after taxes and 401ks comes out to be about like$3 ,000 a month. So not too much. And what type of engineer are you? I work as like a computer engineer. And so just doing a lot of coding, a lot of model running and seeing like, for example, semiconductors, seeing how they work properly and if they have all the correct data paths in them.
4:19Sean Pyles:OK, so I imagine that requires a lot of very technical thinking and computing. Yeah, definitely a lot of time on the computer. Yeah. A lot of time like looking at models, looking at different components and seeing how best they work with each other. Do you find that this way of thinking in terms of your work translates to how you manage your finances? Yeah, I'm super organized in terms of how I manage my finances. I have a budget spreadsheet and I feel like it's good to allocate stuff, but I actually don't do like the auto budgeting where you dump all your stuff into different buckets. I kind of play it by ear based on how my spending is.
4:48Elizabeth Ayoola:So, Hana, tell us a bit about what your financial goals are right now. You have this wonderful savings already. You have a well-paid job. What are some of your near and then maybe medium term goals? My short term goals are to buy a house in the next two to three years. I feel like I've been saving up steadily for like a down payment the last two years since getting out of college. So that's been important to me. And then like in 20 years or 25 years, I think it'd be great to do fire or do coast fire, just like work on towards early retirement. My partners, like parents, are doing coast fire. So I think it's really cool that they've been able to do that.
5:21And I feel like I can see a potential where I could do that as well.
5:25Elizabeth Ayoola:Coast fire is a little different from traditional fire because essentially you are saving as much as you can up front in order to fund your retirement. And then the idea is that you coast once you hit the number that you're trying to achieve. And unlike typical fire or rather traditional fire, you don't stop working. You still work, but you just stop putting all that money towards retirement savings. So you can put it towards living or traveling or renovating your house, anything you want, really.
5:49Sean Pyles:You're basically front-loading your retirement savings. That's right. Okay, so, Hana, you want to buy a house. Are you thinking of buying one in the Portland area? More out in the suburbs, definitely closer to work because we're like 20 miles out from Portland. So I think house prices are actually more expensive out in the suburbs than they are in Portland. And so have you looked at different houses and what you might need to buy or what the price range is? Yeah, I think the price range in terms of what I would like is around like$500 ,000 to$600 ,000. One of the goals that I have is like having a garden and having like space to do my hobbies and that sort of stuff.
6:19Elizabeth Ayoola:Sean has gardens, which you know because you listen. And then how did you determine how much house that you could afford? We have a calculator on NerdWallet for those who don't know that can help. But what did you use? I definitely use the NerdWallet calculator. should just like get a baseline on what sort of house and what sort of mortgage payment I want. Then also looking at like my rent payment right now and seeing how it fits into my lifestyle and if I can adjust that. And so I think a big challenge is definitely adjusting to the mindset of that you're going to pay more for your mortgage, but you're also investing in yourself.
6:48Elizabeth Ayoola:And then how far away, Hana, are you from your goals? Since you have an idea of how much house you can afford, do you have an idea of how much your down payment needs to be? Probably about 20%. I think 15 % would probably be more likely for me because I want to have a bigger emergency fund, you know, repairs and like home gardening and that sort of stuff. And so I think I'm about like 80 % there right now. Like I have a little piggy bank chart on my fridge, which I fill out for each like a thousand I save. So I'm clearly filling that out. You wrote to us and said that you're not sure if you'll be able to buy the house next year, but 80 % sounds pretty close.
7:20Elizabeth Ayoola:So what do you think is getting in the way of you achieving this goal next year? I feel like a lot of life stuff comes up. Like I've been going to weddings. I've been celebrating friends. You know, I've been going on travel. And so like the thousand, six hundred or a thousand you're saving each month that go towards travel or go towards wedding or go towards order funds. So I'm thinking about how best to balance all of that, you know, saving for the house and also making sure to celebrate all the people in my life.
7:44Sean Pyles:We talk about that balance a lot in terms of like, you know, planning and getting toward your long term goals, but still enjoying today, too. And it seems like you're doing a good job at that, even though you might not be able to buy a house, maybe like within the next nine to 12 months. If you buy a house within two years, you'll still be 25 years old and a homeowner. And that's a huge accomplishment. So even though you have this idea of when you want to buy a house, I think that it might not be the worst thing if you don't get it as quickly as you're maybe currently planning on it. Because, again, like you said, you'll be able to save more money by renting currently.
8:18Sean Pyles:How do you feel about that balance? Do you feel like pressure to get a house sooner? Or are you actually OK kind of balancing enjoying today and saving for tomorrow? It is like a certain amount of pressure that I put on myself to like get that first house and like start building a home. I don't love living in apartments in terms of space, in terms of parking, that sort of stuff. Yeah. I mean, I live in a great apartment, but I definitely love being in like a single family house better. But I do understand that, you know, it takes time to find a house that you would truly feel comfortable in. So I'm OK with not being able to hit that like one year next year buying a house.
8:51But definitely want to get towards buying a house in like the next two to four years.
8:55Elizabeth Ayoola:What's driving that pressure? I know I personally have financial goals. And yeah, sometimes it's just I have an unrealistic expectation of myself. Right. Or sometimes it's pressure like, well, my peers are doing this, so I should be at this place, too. So what's driving the pressure to have that home next year? I've moved a lot for work, for internships and that sort of stuff. Like I moved to California, I moved to Kentucky, moved to Indiana. And so it'd be nice to have like a permanent residence, which I could really decorate and do my hobbies in. And then also I feel like buying a house, like all that money is good.
9:26But once I buy that first house, I can definitely like allocate more towards fire. And that's definitely a goal I want to work towards as well.
9:33Sean Pyles:Hana, would you consider actually putting less down on your house so you could buy a house sooner? Or do you really want to have a larger down payment so that your monthly payment is lower? I try to have a larger monthly down payment. I'm in my lease right now for another year. Okay. Yeah. So you're kind of locked in. When is your lease up? I think it's July next year.
9:51Elizabeth Ayoola:Okay. Oh, that makes sense. So is that kind of why you wanted to buy so you don't have to renew your lease again? Yeah, I think that's definitely one of my goals. I think definitely having been in apartments for a long time, I think it's good to switch it up. I know that traditionally we've been asked to put 20 % down. I'm sure you already know this because you're very smart. But you definitely can put anywhere from 3 % to 6 % or less down. I know some people want to avoid PMI as well, which is why they try to hit that 20%. But again, if 20 % is your goal, nothing wrong with that. It just might mean you have to save for a little bit longer.
10:19Sean Pyles:When I bought my house, I put down as little as possible because I didn't have a bunch of cash. And it just made it so I could get into a house sooner. I did have private mortgage insurance, PMI, and I really hated it. So I was very fortunate that my house accrued value. And once I hit a certain threshold, I was able to tell my lender to drop it, which was nice. Depending on your goals and your timeline, it's not the worst thing to put less down. But like you said, you will have a higher monthly payment as a result. One thing I'm worried about, like I feel like I budgeted for the 20 % okay, but then I think I haven't really allocated like enough money or time or thought.
10:54So like the closing cost. And I was like looking at houses, I was like, wow, that's a lot of money for closing costs as well, especially like, you know, like a 500K or a 600K house. So I was just trying to figure out how to budget that and also save that much money that I need for like a bigger house.
11:08Elizabeth Ayoola:Yeah, that's such an important point that you bring up because sometimes people focus so much on just saving for the down payment that they forget about the closing costs. You mentioned earlier an emergency fund and also just having enough for a living and house repairs and things like that. So it's usually recommended that you save between 2 % to 5 % for closing costs, and that's separate than what you're saving for the down payment, which could mean that you end up saving for a little bit longer.
11:33Sean Pyles:One of your challenges right now, Hana, is that you have these numbers that you're thinking about, but it's still a little bit nebulous in some ways. It's not super concrete because you don't have a house that you're looking at or a potential mortgage right in front of you. I'm thinking that you might actually really benefit from sitting down with a mortgage broker and talking through your situation and your goals and your timeline. They'll probably say, wow, you are way ahead of the curve a year out from when you want to buy. But they would be able to kind of put together what it might look like theoretically based on general home prices in your area and what your income is, your credit score, all of that.
12:07Sean Pyles:So that way you can actually get a feel for what closing costs might be like right now. And then you can begin to plan accordingly. I haven't talked to any mortgage brokers yet, but definitely haven't been opening any credit cards. So I don't want to wreck my credit score for that.
12:18Elizabeth Ayoola:And then also just one more thing on the closing costs. What exactly are you confused about? What they are or just how much you should save? How much I should save? Like, I feel like a general guideline is like 6%. I've been working towards that, but I feel like there's even more closing costs that might just pop up based on Oregon and based on like the housing market in general. Like if I want to get a realtor, that sort of stuff. So looking at that is something I need to do as well. Yeah. And for people who are risk averse, so you don't want to end up with surprise bills, it's always a good idea to save more.
12:44Elizabeth Ayoola:That's never going to hurt you. So if you know that you feel uneasy about maybe the 2 % to 5%, then yeah, maybe you go for 6 % to 7 % so that you don't end up house poor or just with a very low bank account after buying a house. Yeah, definitely.
12:58Sean Pyles:And Hana, you also mentioned to us that you have other financial goals besides home buying around investing and which accounts to prioritize. Can you talk with us about how you're currently saving and what questions you might have around where you want to invest? Basically, I've been following the flow of like maxing out my 401k, maxing out my ESPP, which is like a stock purchase program. So that about 15 % of my paycheck goes into that. And then in the beginning of the year, I max out my Roth IRA. And so I guess that would get split up along all the pay periods that we have. After that, I'm kind of confused on like saving for the house, but also like should I put the money into individual brokerage accounts as well to like go towards fire?
13:34Elizabeth Ayoola:That is such a good point because when you are retiring early, you can't tap into those accounts depending on whether they're Roth or not and all these other rules. So it is good to have a brokerage account where you can pull money from until those accounts kick in. But one thing I want to say, Hana, is you don't have to do everything at once. You're doing a wonderful job already. And sometimes it's about having financial priorities, if that makes sense. So you're doing your 401k. You're doing your IRA. You also want to max out your HSA. You also want to save for a house and it can be a little bit overwhelming.
14:05Elizabeth Ayoola:So I think you mentioned earlier the idea of redirecting funds. It might be that once you're done saving for this house, that you can redirect funds into one of those other financial goals. or you can split up your savings into each of those goals, but it just means it might take a little longer to achieve them all. Yeah, I feel like I'm funneling like 100 % of my money after tax that doesn't go towards needs or wants into a house account. So I feel like I should be splitting that up a little bit more evenly. Like I want to save for a trip to Japan. I want to save for like a trip to like my sister's wedding, that sort of stuff.
14:35And it definitely needs to balance like all those different sticking funds we have.
14:38Sean Pyles:Hana, I'm curious about your ESPP. So this is a program where you can essentially buy your company's stock. Why are you putting 15 % of your income into that? Tell me about your thinking and your plan there. Yeah, for the ESPP, I feel like it's a really valuable savings tool, saving vehicle for what I'm working towards. Basically, you get a 15 % discount on the stock that you're purchasing. So even though the money is locked up for six months, you definitely get a tax back and you get extra cash back once that's in. So I think that's really valuable. And I think that even though there's no look back program for the stock purchase program that I'm in, I think it's important because that money is filtered away from me.
15:14I don't see it and I can't spend it.
15:16Sean Pyles:One word of caution I have with that is since you are working for this company, you're investing a lot of your time in the company. Look at your other investments, too, and consider how much your stock in this company compares to your other investments. Because it can be really easy sometimes when you're in an ESPP or you're buying much of your company stock because you're giving grants of it, however way you're acquiring it, to almost be overinvested in a single company because of how much, again, time and also money you're spending acquiring these stocks. So just look at those and see how it balances out because you actually might be able to diversify your investments in a more strategic way if you're putting some of that 15 % into a taxable brokerage account or some other avenue for investment.
Read the full transcript
15:58Elizabeth Ayoola:Of course, I have to have a side story. But someone I know got that advice, and I'm not saying don't listen to Sean. And they didn't listen to their financial advisor who told them not to diversify. And then they became a millionaire and retired early. I'm just saying. So I'm not saying don't take your own advice. Because they had all their company stock? Yes. Okay. shot up so obviously do what works best for you but sean is right so you don't want to overexpose yourself to one or increase your risk by being too heavily invested in your company i'm actually doing quick sale for the espp okay so i'm not actually holding the stock it's just getting sold immediately after so i at least get the 15 okay nice after tax it's probably like more like eight or seven percent got it but i think it's better than a like a high yield savings account
16:38Sean Pyles:it just yeah for six months super savvy i like that idea okay and then with the money that you're getting from selling these stocks? Is that going into your house fund or your taxable account? What are you doing with that? I'm just putting it all into my house fund. I also make sure that the small travel fund I have, like a little bit of money goes into that just for, you know, trips to go home for Thanksgiving and Christmas. So a little bit of that money goes into there, but most of the majority of it goes into the house fund.
17:02Elizabeth Ayoola:Now, this is not a budget rehab, but you did do us the honors of sending us your budget. Something I noticed about your budget, is your split and how high your savings rate is. So I know that you mentioned earlier feeling like you're saving a lot and you don't necessarily have enough money to go towards living. So based on what you sent us, 23 % of your budget is going to needs, 12 % is going to wants, and 65 % is going to savings, which is extremely high and which also tracks with your goal of retiring early. But it sounds like you're saying that you feel like you're not having enough money to enjoy your life.
17:40Elizabeth Ayoola:Is that correct? Or to do the things that you want to do? I feel like I'm not allocating enough fun money for me to go out to eat in Portland, which has great food, or go hiking or that sort of stuff. I have a fun money bucket in my monthly budget for use and that sort of stuff. But I feel like I either overspend it or don't spend it at all. I either need to decrease my 401 contribution rate or decrease the amount of money I'm putting towards my house fund. But I'm not sure if that's a good idea. Girl, are we the same person? Because I struggle with that too sometimes. I'm not going to lie. I also would like to retire early.
18:11Elizabeth Ayoola:I have a relatively high savings rate. My fun money bucket sometimes is way too small and unrealistic because I love to treat myself. So I either end up like you overspending, but then I'm like, I don't want to reduce my savings rate. But then it's like, well, what do I do? Right. And I think part of it for me is just that pressure again to feel like I need to retire early and I need to save as much as I can. But then sometimes I have to step back and ask myself the same thing we ask you. Well, what happens if your goal is delayed by a year and you enjoy a bit of your money now and live your life?
18:38Elizabeth Ayoola:So what do you think it would take for you to consider maybe increasing? Because you have a 65 percent. We usually recommend 50, 30, 20. So we recommend people save 20 percent of their income. You're saving 65 percent. So what if you maybe increased it from 12 percent to 14 or, you know, how would you feel about that? I feel like that would be okay. It's definitely good to enjoy life while you're also saving. Work is work, and it's definitely hard and challenging, and so it's good to enjoy life outside of work as well.
19:07Sean Pyles:You mentioned that you're not sure whether you should pull back on your 401k contributions or your house fund. Given your age and how much we know compound interest is really on your side and time is on your side, I think that you could get more out of continuing to contribute to your 401k and maybe pulling a bit back from the house fund and then using that money for your fun account. Just given that you already have a lot of cash on hand, you could probably buy a house this year if you really wanted to. But of course, you'd have that smaller down payment and the higher monthly cost, which we already discussed.
19:37Sean Pyles:So just given where you currently are, you have a lot of options ahead of you. But I do want to ensure that you are on track for your potential early retirement and maxing out that 401k contribution is going to be one of your best bets there. One thing underlying a lot of the questions we've been talking about so far is what you mentioned around your financial anxiety and how you try to balance you enjoying today, saving for tomorrow, and having the right kind of down payment for the monthly payment that you want. Can you talk with us a little more about your financial anxiety and how it kind of directs what you do or don't do with your money?
20:08You know, social media and comparison and all of these financial influencers are great for promoting financial literacy, but it causes a lot of comparison. And if you spend too much money on eating out or spend too much money on clothes or travel you feel like oh like these influencers wouldn't do it so i shouldn't do it either and so i feel like there's a lot of anxiety towards that a lot of comparison like just what people are doing in life you know my family is like super super cool and i want to be as cool
20:33Sean Pyles:as them that's so sweet you're already cool you're doing amazing things you're bouldering around oregon and you have this amazing job and you're saving a lot of money like that's very very cool So I think comparison is often the thief of joy. And so just like putting that phone away and realizing that as much as people are presenting a certain image on social media as financial influencers or whatever, you don't really know what's going on with their lives or their finances. A lot of what they're putting out there could be complete fabrication. So you know what you are doing with your money and just focus on that.
21:04Sean Pyles:I think that can help alleviate some of the comparison and the anxiety that's causing in you.
21:08Elizabeth Ayoola:Yeah. And even sometimes if it's not fabrication, something I've had to learn is everyone's journey is different. And your journey could change at the blink of an eye. You could go and play the lottery tomorrow and become a millionaire and retire before we all do. Anything can happen in life. And I think another thing that helps me, because I think most people struggle with comparison, whether it's online or in real life, is, yeah, I minimize the amount of time I spend online. And I have a friend who she was at a point in life where she was trying to get pregnant and she couldn't, was having some fertility challenges.
21:35Elizabeth Ayoola:And I remember her saying, I'm going to take a break from following certain influencers because it's triggering me, right? So even if you have to kind of pull back, if that's going to help you not to compare yourself so much, that can be helpful too. And another thing I always, always encourage is look at your journey. Anytime that you're feeling like you're not doing enough or that you need to save more or you're being hard on yourself, look at how far you've come. Look at the percentage of how much you're saving. Again, 65 % of your income is very high. And just looking at that journey can give you the reassurance that you need that you're on the right track.
22:05Elizabeth Ayoola:Yeah, that makes sense.
22:06Sean Pyles:Another thing as well that we like to go back to a lot is your financial values and your priorities and focusing on those. So it seems like saving is a big financial value and a priority of yours. What else comes to mind when you think about what you really care about with money and why you care about these things? I really value spending time with family and getting to see them because they're kind of far away right now. And so whether it's budgeting for a yearly trip to Hawaii to go see my grandma or going to L.A. to go see my sister, I think it's really valuable to be able to have that money to spend and spend time with them.
22:40You know, things are things, but spending the time with people and having experiences with those is really important as well.
22:44Elizabeth Ayoola:So what do you think you'll do then? Are we going to increase that savings rate? Where are we going to pull the money from? And also not just pulling the money, because if you have financial anxiety around it, you might feel guilty after you spend the money. Do you feel guilt after spending money? Yeah, I feel guilty looking at the money and then I feel guilty after spending the money. So it is guilty all around. In terms of what I think I can do in terms of next steps is to definitely like maybe like decrease the house allocation fund by like$200. The money is in a high yield savings account right now so that$200 it's already earning interest on it.
23:16So it should kind of balance out. And I think$200 is enough to spend money on a sweet treat once a week or sweet treat every day. We'll see.
23:25Sean Pyles:And doing it and saying I'm doing this because I want to and I care about it and it's going to make me happy. I think that can help alleviate some of the guilt. Because you really want to enjoy what your money is giving for you. You work hard to earn this money. And you shouldn't be tied up with feelings of negativity just because you're spending it. That's what it's there for. It's all a tool. It's a matter of how you're deploying it. Yeah, I think it's really valuable to have money. But it's also important to use it to live the life you love as well.
23:49Elizabeth Ayoola:Maybe you can consider setting a financial goal of living. Put that into your financial goals like you're already doing. Your fund money account budget for it. And then maybe that reframe might help to alleviate some of that guilt. So when you get to the end of the year, you're like, did I hit that goal of visiting family more and whatever else you want to do? And the asset will be yes, even though it costs you money.
24:09Sean Pyles:Okay, so Hannah, what do you think you're going to be doing next? If you can look out, forecast yourself in the next three, six, nine months, what are you doing with your money that might be different than today? I think what I want to do is definitely allocate more money towards travel and visiting friends and family. I think that's important. My sister, my other sister, my twin sister. Oh, you have a twin? Yeah, I have a twin sister. Wow, twin reveal. You know I'm a twin too. Yeah, that's crazy. She used to be in London. So I was like, OK. And now she moved to SF. So you all like moving. I love it.
24:38Sean Pyles:Much closer. Yeah, in the same time zone. So that's really valuable. So I think I'm going to allocate some money into my travel fund so I can go visit her once a month. What do you think your home buying goal will be? So I think I want to definitely buy a house maybe at the end of next year. But obviously plans can change. And I think it's important to be flexible with that. Well, please keep us updated. We always love hearing from our listeners. So we want to know what you do, what changes you make and how it pans out for you.
25:00Elizabeth Ayoola:Yeah, I'll be sure to call in.
25:02Sean Pyles:Great.
25:02Elizabeth Ayoola:Hannah, thank you for coming on Smart Money. Thank you for being a loyal listener. And we want to hear from you in the future. Tell us what you decide to do if you buy the home next year. Fingers crossed. I hope you do. Send us a picture and let us know how the process goes. Yes, of course. So happy to be on here and chat with y 'all.
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27:28Elizabeth Ayoola:For those who expect more from every moment, there's a vehicle designed to meet it. The Range Rover Sport. Exclusive offers available now. Explore further at RangeRover.com. Sean, I want to pick your brain about something. Okay.
27:42Sean Pyles:What's on your mind, Elizabeth?
27:44Elizabeth Ayoola:So you have had two sabbaticals at NerdWallet. Am I correct?
27:47Sean Pyles:Yes. Two sabbaticals. And for those who don't know, NerdWallet has this amazing perk where after five years, you get five weeks off. And then every three years after that, you get another five weeks off. I have been in NerdWallet for 10 years now. Wowzers. Two sabbaticals. I'm eligible for my third one in the spring. And I really can't wait because it's a phenomenal perk.
28:06Elizabeth Ayoola:I really think it is. Since I started working God knows how many years ago, I've been working for over two decades, which is crazy. But the most time...
28:13Sean Pyles:We have at least two decades more to go. Sorry, Elizabeth.
28:14Elizabeth Ayoola:Stop it. I'm firing, but that's a different conversation. but the longest time I've had off is in between jobs. I'm really excited about this. All the NerdWallet execs, close your ears. I didn't think I was going to be here up to five years to even get the perk.
28:27Sean Pyles:But earlier on in your career, you were hopping jobs a lot and there's a lot of reason to do that because you could find something better but NerdWallet's a pretty good gig so that's why you've stuck around for this long, right?
28:36Elizabeth Ayoola:Exactly, exactly. Okay, so Sean, I am planning to do a multi-country trip which I have never done before for my sabbatical next year and honestly, I need you to be my therapist a little bit and also my travel guide because I'm feeling overwhelmed. Why am I feeling overwhelmed? One, I don't think I would have spent that much money at once before because multi-country trips, as you know, can be expensive. You did one. And also, as a type B person, I'm overwhelmed with all the organizing. Like, where do I start?
29:07Sean Pyles:So what countries are you planning on going to? What's your general plan? Oh my God. We have five weeks, but it goes by really quickly and you want to be able to relax in that amount of time, not just be traveling the entirety of it, unless that's your MO. For me, it was not. So lay out what you're thinking currently.
29:22Elizabeth Ayoola:So I agree with you. I don't want to spend the whole time traveling. I don't want to come back exhausted and feel like I need a vacation for my sabbatical. So I was hoping to at least have one or two weeks where I stay at home and bed rot. But during the traveling, okay, so I need to drop Ayo in London with his grandma. Okay, so that's step number one. because Elizabeth - Drop off your son in London and go have your fun. That's right because Elizabeth wants to solo travel. And then I want to go to Nigeria. I haven't been since I was two years old. Yeah. So that's -
29:52Sean Pyles:It was like six years ago? Seven years ago?
29:54Elizabeth Ayoola:He's going to be nine this year.
29:55Sean Pyles:Wow. Okay. Yeah. It's been a while then.
29:56Elizabeth Ayoola:It has been a while. And there are, you know, some reasons I haven't gone, but I'm ready now. And I have some land over there that I need to fence as well. So that's an incentive to go. Casual. You have some land
30:05Sean Pyles:you need to fence in Nigeria.
30:06Elizabeth Ayoola:I have some land. Yes. So I want to fence it. So here is my thoughts. Houston, where I am now. London to drop off Isle with his grandma. Then some places in Europe. I'm thinking Italy and Amsterdam. Then Lagos. Then back to pick up Isle. Then back to Houston.
30:22Sean Pyles:Okay. That's a lot of country hopping. I think in terms of order, you might want to do London to Amsterdam. Closer. And then down to Italy. And then you can go from Italy to Nigeria. Just because they're all kind of in order. Instead of hopping back around, right? That's just one thought. in terms of simplifying the direction that you're traveling.
30:41Elizabeth Ayoola:Sean, what about all the tickets? All the tickets and all the expenses. Like, where do I start?
30:46Sean Pyles:I'm wondering if you thought about getting a new travel credit card for this and using a sign-up bonus. Maybe a couple sign-up bonuses to do this.
30:54Elizabeth Ayoola:I didn't think about that, and that's very smart. And I actually haven't gotten new credit in almost two years. So that's been good. So it might be time to get a new credit card. Yeah.
31:03Sean Pyles:So this seems like a good chance to shop around, look at Nerval. It's phenomenal comparison tools, and see what credit card might get you a good sign of bonus to cover at least some of the cost. Because as we know, airline tickets are really expensive. We don't know what tickets will be like in six months because you're planning on traveling, what, next summer? Yes. And so you'll probably want to book your travel four, three, four months in advance. Okay. So at this point, we're recording in the summer of 2026. You have like nine months before you need to actually get these tickets. Oh, okay, good.
31:32Sean Pyles:So that should be plenty of time to do some research on some cards. apply for, I mean, you could actually apply for a couple of different cards because all applications for credit cards within like a two-week window count as one single application on your credit report. So if you do want to get two or maybe more travel credit cards, you might want to do it all at that same time because if you get approved for one travel credit card and then two months later you want to apply for another one, the second card issuer might not be so keen on that because they saw that you just got another card recently.
32:00Sean Pyles:So it might be really smart to bunch them if you are going to get more than one and then work on getting the signup bonus over the holidays which you know are going to be expensive and then going into next year you'll have a bunch of signup bonus points that you can use for your tickets i like the way you think i didn't think of that what i
32:16Elizabeth Ayoola:was thinking about is my existing bonus points that i haven't used yet but you already have some yes so i have maybe like 150 000 points i can use plus the signup bonus points so that will
32:26Sean Pyles:save me so much on tickets yeah i would love if you spent none of your own money on these tickets and could just use points. Because in general, you're going to get the most value for flights versus something like a hotel. And let's see if a hotel credit card. Look into that. I would just say shop around a bit and see what your points can get you right now. I mean, you might want to actually kind of mock up what it might be like to travel in a few months from now, which is probably going to be shoulder season. Right now we're in peak travel season. So things can be a little more expensive. But just see what it might actually look like if you used your points on a flight from where you are in Texas to London because you're getting two tickets for you and your son.
33:02Sean Pyles:So that's a need to consider too.
33:04Elizabeth Ayoola:His father should be getting his ticket, but yes, tentatively.
33:07Sean Pyles:Okay. Well, hopefully his father can do that. But if not, again, just begin to map it out and see what it might actually look like. That's what I did for my honeymoon last November when Garrett and I went to Japan and then South Korea. I began looking. It was right around this time last year because I knew I was going to be flying in November. And at that point, I didn't really have a lot of points. and I did use a travel credit card to buy my points so I could earn that signup bonus. And so I kind of did the reverse because I just didn't have an eligible card. I probably should have done what I'm telling you to do and taken out a card a little further in advance so I could use it for those flights, but it was fine.
33:44Sean Pyles:I think that's what you should do right now just to kind of get a feel for the lay of the land and see where prices might be over time.
33:49Elizabeth Ayoola:Okay, so your advice has immediately minimized the anxiousness around spending a whole bunch of money because I'm like, well, how much do I need? Obviously, I'd have to do my research and see how much the trip is going to cost. Where do I start to save that? And also knowing that I don't have to buy the tickets now because I was like, well, maybe I need to start buying tickets now in order to save money.
34:06Sean Pyles:I think a year out is too far in advance. Yeah. So, Elizabeth, you said, where are you going to save this money? And immediately my mind goes to, do you have a sinking fund for your sabbatical?
34:15Elizabeth Ayoola:I don't. I have a travel sinking fund at the moment, which has so far$1 ,000 saved away in there. But I don't have a specific sabbatical sinking fund. So do you think I need a separate one or can I just use my travel fund?
34:28Sean Pyles:I've just previously, I've used my fun money account to fund my sabbaticals. But because you have so many distinct expenses that are going to be connected to this in terms of not just your flights, which again, we hope points can cover, but food and lodging. And you're going to be shopping on these trips and you have to buy that fence for your house in Nigeria. Like these are all expenses that you know you're going to have over this five week period of time. So right now, a year out, I think would be a great time to designate some of your savings in a sinking fund just for this purpose. So you said you have$1 ,000 in your vacation fund.
34:58Sean Pyles:What if you put half of that just to jumpstart your sinking fund and then put in$100,$200 each month? Do you think that if you had around$1 ,000, maybe$1 ,500 in there, that might be enough to cover some of the lodging, the restaurants, the fence, these things that we're talking about?
35:14Elizabeth Ayoola:Some, but I have a feeling it's going to be more. So that's my job to go and do my research and then I can report back.
35:19Sean Pyles:Reverse engineer how much you would need to save each month once you have that rough figure. Because I would say get the rough figure and then add even 10 or 20 percent because we know it's easy to spend money when you're traveling.
35:29Elizabeth Ayoola:And let me tell you, I ain't got no budget on vacation, okay? I'm rich. I'm rich on vacation.
35:34Sean Pyles:But you don't want to go into debt. Not that you would be going into debt, but you don't want to overspend and then end up pulling from some other account for it. So I think this is a great opportunity to have another short-term sinking fund. And then once your sabbatical is done, you can get rid of that account easy peasy.
35:47Elizabeth Ayoola:Yeah. And then I'm thinking now, I think I'm like two car payments away from being free from car payments. So that money could also go towards my sabbatical if I wanted it to.
35:55Sean Pyles:Yes. And then once you're done funding the sabbatical, if I were you, I would put that car payment amount into a car fund for me. Sean, please.
36:04Elizabeth Ayoola:Oh, my God.
36:05Sean Pyles:My car is in the shop as we're speaking right now. And let me tell you, I'm grateful for my car fund.
36:09Elizabeth Ayoola:I've never had a car fund. I probably should because it's the most pain in my behind expense. And every time I have to fix something on my car, I want to cry. But I usually just pull it out of my emergency savings. But it would be good to start saving towards another car. But just the thought of buying, why are cars so expensive? Why do I spend thousands of dollars on a car? I don't want to.
36:27Sean Pyles:It's ridiculous. We'll tackle that in another episode, though. But for now, I think a sinking fund would be a good idea. So look into it.
36:33Elizabeth Ayoola:I will. Now, Sean, tell me about your first sabbatical. What did you do?
36:37Sean Pyles:I had a great time. And I structured it in a similar way that you were describing. I bookended my travel with weeks off where I was doing nothing. I read the entirety of the Lord of the Rings series over a week.
36:49Elizabeth Ayoola:What a good use of your time.
36:50Sean Pyles:Yeah, they're pretty easy, fun reads. So I did that. I went for some runs. I did some painting. I also did travel. I went to London. It was my first time in London. I saw Lady Gaga in London. And then I went over to Paris because one of my best friends from college was getting married in France. And so we all met up in Paris for her bachelorette, went to the Moulin Rouge, went down to her wedding in the Beaujolais region of France. And then I went back to Portland and had a little bit of time off, went to San Francisco for a weekend. And then I had one final week where I was just at home chilling again.
37:25Sean Pyles:And it was divine. And I did spend a lot of money. And I frankly didn't do a lot of the responsible things in terms of like budgeting ahead of time and saying I'm only going to spend this much in Paris.
37:35Elizabeth Ayoola:But guess what? you had a time and you have savings now. You didn't die.
37:40Sean Pyles:And I had savings then too. So I felt, okay, I didn't spend beyond my means too wildly. But if you're going to see Lady Gaga in London and then your friend's wedding in France, you're going to be spending some money because this is a once in a lifetime experience. And I would do it probably the same way if I could do it again. Maybe I would budget a little bit more intentionally. Yes, it was kind of extravagant, but I loved every minute of it. I was so grateful to have this five weeks off.
38:04Elizabeth Ayoola:I'm just thinking for all the listeners and lovely viewers out there who do not have a five-week sabbatical, who may be sick of working or just want to take a break and explore something else and are fortunate enough to afford it. Like, what are some ways that they can budget to create their own sabbatical, if that's the thing?
38:21Sean Pyles:I wish that we could have our producer Tess Viglin join us for this conversation because she took a three-year sabbatical from work and lived in Asia for a while. She's just out of the frame, but we'll have her on for another episode to talk about this. But I think knowing how much you would want to spend, would you be able to actually cover your ongoing life expenses if you didn't have a regular stream of income? Just having those bases covered would be my first step because I worry about stepping away from work for a period of time for fun recreationally and then not being able to easily get back into a way of making money.
38:54Sean Pyles:That makes me nervous. So I would say be really, really careful with when and how you do it, but also know what you want to get out of it. Like, are you going on some sort of retreat to restart your career? Are you doing this just because you're super burnt out? But think about what it's like to reenter a stable way of working and making money.
39:12Elizabeth Ayoola:I know someone who actually cashed out their 401k to, yeah.
39:16Sean Pyles:That makes me so nervous.
39:18Elizabeth Ayoola:Well, some people are YOLOing, right? Yeah.
39:20Sean Pyles:Wait, how much did they cash out?
39:22Elizabeth Ayoola:I don't know the dollar amount, but enough not to work for, I think, two years or so. Yeah. So maybe not the advice that we would give at NerdWallet. But it definitely is good to plan out your sabbatical. If you all want to hear an episode about how to take a sabbatical and how you can plan for one, write us, email us, text us, and we can work on that and have Tess come on for this one.
39:43Sean Pyles:Yeah, if you want to hear our producer Tess's story, because I've heard it and I want to hear it again, please let us know. That's all we've got for this episode, folks. Send us your financial questions wherever you want to. You can leave us a voicemail or text us on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. It's 901-730-NERD. or you can email us at podcast at nerdwallet.com. You can leave us a comment on Spotify or YouTube if that's your jam too.
40:06Elizabeth Ayoola:We want you to follow us on your favorite podcast app that includes Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.
40:15Sean Pyles:Here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances. Some companies mentioned in this episode may be NerdWallet partners, but does not influence how we talk about them. And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.
40:58Get runway ready for The Devil Wears Prada 2 on Disney Plus and Hulu. Rated PG-13.
From the publisher
Learn how to save for a home, pursue FIRE, and quiet money anxiety when every goal feels urgent at once.
What does it really take to balance saving for a first home, building toward early retirement, and spending without guilt — when every goal feels like it needs to come first? Hosts Sean Pyles, CFP®, and Elizabeth Ayoola sit down with listener Hana from Portland, a super-saver putting away over $4,000 a month who still worries she's falling short. They dig into how much she actually needs for a down payment and closing costs, what makes a home a money pit rather than a sound investment, how to prioritize competing goals like the HSA, 401(k), Roth IRA, and house fund, and what it really takes to hit FIRE in 15–20 years — plus the money anxiety that makes even high savers second-guess every dollar they spend on fun.
See how far your homebuying budget could take you with NerdWallet’s free home affordability calculator: https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/calculators/how-much-house-can-i-afford
Buying a home? Estimate the closing costs for a house of any value with this calculator: https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/calculators/closing-costs
Mortgage Closing Costs: How Much You’ll Pay https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/learn/closing-costs-mortgage-fees-explained
First-Time Home Buyer Loans and Programs: A Beginner’s Guide https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/learn/programs-help-first-time-homebuyers
Want us to review your budget? Fill out this form — completely anonymously if you want — and we might feature your budget in a future segment! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScK53yAufsc4v5UpghhVfxtk2MoyooHzlSIRBnRxUPl3hKBig/viewform?usp=header
Smart Money’s YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@nerdwalletsmartmoney
To send the Nerds your money questions, call or text the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373 or email podcast@nerdwallet.com. Like what you hear? Please leave us a review and tell a friend.
*The show notes were created with the assistance of AI. They have been reviewed by our editorial team for accuracy and quality.
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