Split-Expense Planning for Couples and the Winter Homebuying Advantage

13:39Sean Pyles:For business owners, being connected isn't a perk. It's how you take payments, talk to clients, and keep things moving.

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13:55Sean Pyles:And Spectrum Business offers 100 % U.S.-based customer support 24-7 to help you stay up and running. That means you get actual help not submit a ticket and hope for the best.

14:05Elizabeth Ayoola:Our colleague, Kari, is a Spectrum customer. Shout out to our social media team. And she told us that she chose Spectrum because people online kept recommending it as a reliable and affordable option for internet and phone service.

14:17Sean Pyles:Kari told us she was actually a little hesitant to switch at first because she'd been using a different service for a while. But after a year with Spectrum, she's had a really good experience. Her phone gets strong, reliable service and it automatically connects to Spectrum Wi-Fi everywhere.

14:29Elizabeth Ayoola:Join the millions who rely on Spectrum business. Visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. One more time, that's spectrum.com slash business.

14:38Sean Pyles:Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas.

14:42Abby Badach Doy:This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Stop waiting around for the perfect candidate. Instead, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs to find the right people with the right skills fast. It's a simple way to make sure your listing is the first candidate C. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs have four times more applicants than non-sponsored jobs. So go build your dream team today with Indeed. Get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply.

15:10Sean Pyles:We're back and answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions. This episode, we're joined by two listeners, Claire and Robbie, who have some questions about how to equitably manage their finances and plan for their retirement as a couple.

15:23Elizabeth Ayoola:Claire and Robbie, welcome to Smart Money. Thanks for having us.

15:27Sean Pyles:Thanks.

15:27Elizabeth Ayoola:I'm so excited to have a couple here today, and we are excited to dig into your finances and answer your questions.

15:33Sean Pyles:Can we start by hearing a little more about your relationship and how you've managed money together so far? We've been dating a little over a year, and Claire just moved in about three months ago.

15:46Anna Helhoski:So we kind of came to an agreement before she moved in that she would help essentially like pay rent because we currently live together in a house I purchased last year. So she essentially just pays like a flat fee every month. And then I pay the mortgage and the utilities and everything that everything else that goes along with it. Okay.

16:15Sean Pyles:And how did you decide what that rent amount is going to be?

16:18Anna Helhoski:So prior to her moving into the house, she was obviously at her own place and was living in an apartment. And I felt that it shouldn't be the same as what she's paying for her apartment. And we kind of talked about it and both agreed on the specific number that she's currently paying.

16:42Sean Pyles:Well, I know you have some questions for us about how to equitably share this expense and we'll get to that in a little bit. But one thing you mentioned when you wrote to us, Claire, was that you two have a pretty notable age gap. So talk with us about that and whether it's affected the way you guys relate to each other and have managed your finances as you've been together.

17:02Abby Badach Doy:Yeah, we are 16 years apart. We personally never think about it really. We met at a run club. Our interests are very similar, like both live an active lifestyle. But I do think that financially it's come up just in that something that attracted us to each other is that we're both very open about our finances and very interested in how to kind of optimize what we're doing. And I think even before I moved in, we were already talking about retirement and not only what we do, but how that could potentially create issues, especially in terms of retirement. So yeah, I think that's where it's come up most for us.

17:44Abby Badach Doy:Otherwise, I don't think we think about it much.

17:48Elizabeth Ayoola:okay and then what do you guys do for work i know that you wrote to us and said that you

17:52Abby Badach Doy:have similar income so what do you guys do so i work as an analyst in tech and robbie works in salesforce something

18:03Elizabeth Ayoola:you gotta love how i wrote some people ask me like oh what does your friend do or sister do for work and i'm like something around something you just never never sticks right like i don't

18:13Abby Badach Doy:I only have a loose understanding. Yes.

18:15Sean Pyles:You're focused on other things that are more important, perhaps.

18:19Anna Helhoski:The technical version is I'm a software consultant in tech as well.

18:25Sean Pyles:Tech something something. Yes. Yes. And how much do you each make?

18:29Abby Badach Doy:It's around$130.

18:31Sean Pyles:Okay. So you guys are making about the same.

18:33Abby Badach Doy:Okay.

18:33Sean Pyles:Yes. Okay. With that, do you find that you feel really compelled to share things 50-50? because a lot of times we get questions in couples where they think, oh, one person makes a lot more than the other. How should we actually divvy up our expenses? What's your conversation about that like?

18:47Anna Helhoski:We haven't had a lot of conversations about it other than just what she would potentially pay whenever she moved in. I will say for going out and entertainment and traveling and stuff like that, we try to just split it down the middle. but as far as like the household stuff she pays her part in uh rent and then i pretty much pay

19:15Elizabeth Ayoola:everything else and do you guys have any plans um or have you talked about potentially pulling your money together or you plan to keep your finances separate um for the most part yeah

19:24Anna Helhoski:that hasn't been a discussion of like pulling pulling things together okay you don't have to

19:30Sean Pyles:i mean i'm married to my husband and we don't have any shared finances we just cover things on our own and we'll Venmo each other often, which is maybe inefficient, but it works for us. But speaking of being married, you guys have been together for a year, as you said. Are you planning to get married? Because you guys have some pretty long-term plans or aspirations here. Has that come into the picture at all? Yeah. Sorry to put you on the spot here. I don't know if you guys have talked about it.

19:55Abby Badach Doy:Yeah. We've talked about like kind of what the timeline might look like for that, which would be like maybe in two years time or something. So yeah, it's definitely on our minds of, or clearly both planners because we're thinking kind of down the line. Yeah, it definitely is something we've talked about.

20:13Anna Helhoski:Yeah, we've definitely discussed it. We currently don't have like hard set plans or anything like that. So, but it has been something that's come up.

20:22Elizabeth Ayoola:All right, so we want to know, since you guys are long-term planners and thinking about the future, I love that. What are your thoughts around retirement? How much do you have saved so far? And then what are your goals?

20:31Anna Helhoski:I have about 900 saved across multiple different accounts, like a rollover IRA, a Roth IRA, 401k, HSA, standard savings and brokerage.

20:45Sean Pyles:Congratulations. That's an accomplishment.

20:46Anna Helhoski:Thank you. About 150 of that is in a Roth or a Roth version because I do have the option in my 401k to contribute to a Roth portion. So that's where I stand.

21:05Abby Badach Doy:And then what about you, Claire? I kind of had to reset into my retirement savings because I've been living abroad before we met for six years and kind of put retirement savings on pause during that time. That said, I have a little over 200K in retirement savings right now. So the bulk of that is in an account with Vanguard. So a target savings fund for 2060. I've got a rollover IRA. I am contributing or maxing out my Roth. So in the last two years, I've done that. And then I have a 401k that's about 30k. So I'm maxing that out, given the kind of limit for 2026 as well.

21:45Elizabeth Ayoola:You guys are so financially savvy. I love to hear it.

21:48Sean Pyles:Thank you. Well, speaking of retirement, I know one of your main questions was how to think about retirement, given your age gap and your planning. So what are your main questions or concerns there?

21:59Abby Badach Doy:We're on different timelines. You know, I was already a little behind because I took six years out of saving. You know, if I were to retire at 65, I'd retire really well, but neither of us wants to work forever. we'd like to retire at or before kind of normal retirement age but we'd also like to spend as much of retirement together and I think that kind of inevitably means that I would need to retire early and I think we haven't quite circled that square of how to do that or what options we have as far as being able to do that. So I think we're very curious to hear kind of what our options are or maybe some of the pitfalls of early retirement if that was the option.

22:50Sean Pyles:Have you guys played around with our retirement calculator at NerdWallet much?

22:55Abby Badach Doy:I have heard of it. My parents are a big fan.

22:57Sean Pyles:I really recommend using that just so you can get an understanding of some numbers here because that will help you understand how much you might need to save because you guys will have a longer overall retirement timeline than most couples, right? Because Claire, you're hoping to retire earlier. So you might have a retirement if this goes according to how you would like, it could be 30, 40 plus years, if you are hoping to retire around when Robbie is going to. So there are a few different options. One, Claire, you could retire early, which seems like the goal. Another one is that Robbie, you could work longer, even part time until Claire can retire, although that seems like the least desirable option for you guys.

23:36Sean Pyles:And then you could also even temporarily have a split household where maybe Robbie is retired and Claire, you're still working to catch up the difference of those years where you weren't saving for retirement. Additionally, you could kind of split the difference between your saving and work timelines where Claire saves more aggressively now and Robbie might work a little bit longer than he wants to. So does any of that resonate with you? Yeah, you want to retire as soon as you can.

24:03Anna Helhoski:And going back to the discussion about expenses, one of the reasons we came up with the figure that we did is I wanted it to be lower than what she was paying for rent so that she would have the ability to save even more in her retirement account. So that was something we also discussed whenever we were trying to figure out, okay, how do we make this fair?

24:29Elizabeth Ayoola:Well, one thing I want to bring up that comes to mind that you could potentially do, Claire, you guys are financially savvy. So I'm going to assume that you've heard about FIRE, Financial Independence Retire Early, have you? So is that something you guys have thought about or discussed? I don't think we use her.

24:44Abby Badach Doy:I personally haven't engaged with FIRE specifically, but I'm familiar with the concept.

24:48Elizabeth Ayoola:So it's essentially Financial Independence Retire Early and there are different types of FIRE. But for you guys, the situation, what comes to mind for me is potentially doing barista FIRE. and that is when you semi-retire. So you save enough whereas you can semi-retire and then you take a part-time job so that you're not doing maybe your demanding career job and that way you guys have more time to spend on the beach together and get lunch and Netflix and chill while you're still earning enough money to do things like cover healthcare expenses and also fund fund money. And I know healthcare can be a big thing when you retire early since you wouldn't be eligible for Medicare yet if you do that before the age of 65.

25:24Elizabeth Ayoola:But if you semi-retire, you can still get those healthcare benefits while also having some freedom.

25:29Anna Helhoski:That is my vision of retirement. If I need to work some sort of, you know, part-time gig, I could, but I want to have the, essentially the choice because if we think about it, we have a lot of time or we spend a lot of time working. And I feel like a lot of people don't think about, okay, what are you going to do to fill all that damn time? Mm hmm. Yeah. That's something I've I've spent a lot of time thinking about of, OK, let's say I didn't have to work anymore. What am I going to do?

26:03Sean Pyles:What? What, Robbie? What did you pick up a hobby? You can volunteer somewhere. I think that that actually leads into some good planning that you guys could do. One thing that's really key with FIRE is that in these years where you're working as hard as you can, saving as much as you can, you'll want to be tucking away between 50 % and 70 % of your income. That is a core tenant of FIRE to make those many years of retirement feasible. So you'll have to sacrifice some of those vacations or maybe dining out now just to put as much as you can in your 401ks. is great to hear that you're maxing that out, Claire, but also things like a taxable brokerage account, which you would be able to access earlier than something like a 401k without penalties.

26:40Sean Pyles:Meanwhile, as you think about your jobs and how you could maybe have a more flexible working schedule in your semi-retirement, is there a way where you can begin to position yourself to be almost a consultant so you can have part-time work, but on your schedule?

26:54Anna Helhoski:Yeah. And that's definitely something I need to think about or look into. But But in that same vein, like Claire kind of has a part time gig already that she does. So she could continue doing something like that to help offset like the health care costs that we've talked about.

27:13Elizabeth Ayoola:That's right. That's right.

27:15Sean Pyles:What is your part time gig, Claire?

27:17Elizabeth Ayoola:I dog sit. Oh, that's good. Sean has a dog. Sean, are you going to talk about your dog now?

27:22Sean Pyles:My dog is napping right next to me in the chair.

27:25Abby Badach Doy:Yeah, it's nice. I do it primarily because I love dogs, but we also love travel. So I think it's kind of best of both worlds that I get that dog time, but then kind of none of the bad parts.

27:37Sean Pyles:Yeah, you don't have to look for a dog sitter of your own because yeah, you can just travel when you want to. That's great.

27:41Abby Badach Doy:And I like to put that money or so far I've been putting that money in a sunny day fund. So I have 12 months of expenses in a rainy day fund. But then I put all the dog sitting money into a sunny day fund to potentially pay for a honeymoon or whatever that ends up being.

27:59Sean Pyles:That is a great term that I haven't heard before. A sunny day fund. I love the optimism of that.

28:05Elizabeth Ayoola:What are some other things aside from traveling that you envision yourself doing during retirement? And also because you want to retire together, what are some things you want to do together?

28:14Abby Badach Doy:I think the big thing we've talked about is keeping our place in Austin as a home base and then doing, you know, one month stints abroad or in other places in the U.S.

28:25Anna Helhoski:We haven't discussed like the house and mortgage and all that adulting stuff. But one of my big goals is to pay that off in the next 10 to 15 years so that if I do potentially retire within that same time frame, that's an additional expense that we don't necessarily have to worry about. And that other than her vehicle is the only debt that we have. So we don't have school loans or credit card debt or any of that fun stuff. So that's something that we've kind of discussed is, you know, like we don't have a lot of expenses that a lot of other adults have, like kids or, you know, debt or anything like that.

29:14Anna Helhoski:So we're very lucky to be in that situation. But that's like one less thing that we don't have to worry about.

29:20Sean Pyles:Yeah. One thing I'm thinking about there is you might have to sacrifice either your retirement savings or your mortgage payment to hit either of those goals. So which one would maybe be a greater priority to you? This is where calculators can be really handy to help you see how much further your money would go if you're stuffing as much as you can into different types of investment and retirement accounts versus putting extra toward your mortgage. I understand and really see the appeal of not wanting to have a mortgage payment in your retirement, but there's a chance that you might be better served by putting all that money into your investments now so it can grow and you might get a better return based on what you're paying for your mortgage and your interest rate there.

29:59Anna Helhoski:Yeah, it's just making the best decision or whatever personal decision suits you best. Yeah.

30:08Sean Pyles:That's right. It's not just about the numbers too. It's also what helps you feel better about your money. And sometimes that's paying down your mortgage.

30:15Anna Helhoski:Yeah. You made the comment about you have to choose between one or the other. Claire, her saving percentage is pretty close to 40. We're both pretty close to 40%. Wow. And I'm essentially taking like the extra money that or the money that she pays every month. And I just put that towards the mortgage. So there's a little wiggle room either way if we want to make adjustments there.

30:44Elizabeth Ayoola:All right. Well, speaking of mortgage, you also sent us a question around how to make it fair, considering that Claire is contributing towards the mortgage. And sometimes couples have a concern that if they break up, one person has helped the other pay down their mortgage and they leave having to go and pay rent somewhere again. So what kind of questions did you guys have around that?

31:03Abby Badach Doy:Kind of what our options are as far as splitting that expense or especially given kind of longer term goals, we're in a unique position. And so it's hard to ask other couples kind of what they're doing. You know, they'll have kids or they'll have different things going on. Find out if we have other options we might want to consider about how to split that expense. If I remember correctly, it's 50 % of the mortgage payment. So again, kind of it goes back to that we are in the same as is where that number kind of came from as well. But especially given wanting to retire together, that at all also comes in the consideration of maybe that payment being different to maximize retirement savings or whatever that might look like.

31:47Sean Pyles:I actually am in a kind of similar situation with my husband where we live in his house in Portland, I have a house in Washington that I rent out and I pay him rent and I pay him a flat amount that is it's like a thousand dollars so it's a little less than half of the mortgage and we account for the difference because he is getting the equity in this house and I don't cover any utilities in this house because I'm paying for maintenance on my own house so if something needs to be repaired he'll pay for that but then sometimes if there's a cosmetic change that I want to make like last year I wanted all new light fixtures in the house.

32:24Sean Pyles:And after coming back from my honeymoon in Japan, I needed to have a bidet in my bathroom and I'm paying for that. So it's a little bit squishy here and there, but it feels very equitable. And that's the key thing I want to emphasize is that it feels like you have a right balance for your incomes. And it sounds like you're doing that. We haven't touched on maintenance a lot. Robbie, are you covering that? Is that my understanding?

32:46Anna Helhoski:There's not a lot of that, but yeah, anything household related would fall under my umbrella. I guess.

32:54Elizabeth Ayoola:Okay. And then Robbie, I know that you mentioned earlier that when you guys were deciding how much rent Claire would pay, you did factor in her being able to save more for retirement. So maybe you adjusted that number to accommodate that. So Claire, do you feel like that feels a bit more fair because you're able to maybe save more towards retirement than you would have if you were still renting your apartment?

33:13Abby Badach Doy:Oh, definitely. So I think that and kind of framing it in terms of maybe not paying for utilities is kind of the way of adjusting for building his equity kind of is a nice reframing for me.

33:28Sean Pyles:Is there anything else that could make it feel more fair for either of you?

33:32Abby Badach Doy:Like we said, we're still having some conversations in that area. I think this podcast has brought some up. So even last night, we talked about when we go out, making sure that that's more 50 50, that that's probably geared more towards Robbie covering it than feels fair. And so I think that was a nice reminder that we need to check in on this. Like the podcast has prompted those conversations, but that maybe every couple of months, it's good to just check in that everybody feels like it's being fairly distributed.

34:02Sean Pyles:Just so I'm clear on that when you guys are going out to dinner, Robbie, you're the one putting down your card more often. Is that right?

34:07Anna Helhoski:Yeah, that's kind of what we discussed last night. But there's some variables around that. So that's the overall theme, I guess.

34:18Elizabeth Ayoola:And I'm curious about I know everyone has different values around how to split finances, but have both of you always been 50 50 people? And like, why do you decide that you want to do 50 50?

34:29Abby Badach Doy:We don't have traditional roles. might be a way of phrasing it. We like the idea that we're both kind of equal partners. And I think, again, definitely the fact that we make the same money has just kind of inspired wanting to split things 50-50. I think, yeah, it's only the difference in timeline that has maybe prompted some thoughts into switching that up a little bit.

34:53Sean Pyles:Yeah, I think you guys are in a situation where because of the numbers you're working with, you're able to really live your values around being 50-50 in this way. there could be a future state where one of you is making significantly more than the other how would you change this dynamic in that case would you try to have it be an equitable representative split based on income or would you still like to have 50 50 the last six months has

35:16Anna Helhoski:been a struggle i would say for claire from an employment standpoint and and like the comfort level there. So it's, I guess it's probably been something in the back of our minds. So, you know, if she were to lose her job, I don't, I don't personally, I don't feel like it would be fair for her to still have to like pay rent or whatever, but that that's something we would have to discuss. I think if unfortunately that were to happen.

35:50Abby Badach Doy:And it's definitely part of why I bolstered the rainy day fund because I work in tech and there's just kind of a constant threat of layoffs. I just felt like six months maybe didn't feel secure enough that I wanted to make sure there was a little bit more in there.

36:04Sean Pyles:With the way the job market is at this current moment, it's taking people quite a while to find jobs. So typically we would say you actually might not want more than six months in your emergency fund, given that you guys are both gainfully employed. But I think it's actually pretty smart to be conservative given where we are right now.

36:21Elizabeth Ayoola:We have discussed so many different topics. Do you guys have any other questions?

36:24Abby Badach Doy:You know, we're trying to plan for the ideal scenario where everything works out, but it has crossed my mind. And it's something we've talked about that in the event that this wasn't to work out long term, I want to make sure that I am not, you know, risking my comfortable retirement in order to coordinate our savings. So I'm wondering if there's anything I might consider or as far as, you know, maybe when I stop saving or exit the workforce to make sure that, you know, I'm not retiring earlier than I would necessary while still, you know, making sure that we spend as much time together in retirement as possible if it were to work out.

37:10Sean Pyles:To me, the solution would be keeping one, maybe two coals in the fire employment wise. So that way you can have a steady stream of income. Maybe you're doing 10, 15, 20 hours a week, depending on what you feel like you want to do and how much you enjoy the work. But you're giving yourself the flexibility to not have to be checking into a job nine to five Monday through Friday. And then you could actually maybe pivot more into doing different hours if you end up needing that income at some point. So just keeping your options open was a smart thing to do.

37:40Elizabeth Ayoola:And also maybe factoring in individually. I know you're planning retirement together, but your own retirement number and what number you would be comfortable stopping at so that if things didn't work out, knock on wood, because we want y 'all to be together forever. But, you know, so that you would have a comfortable nest egg for yourself if you happen to be single. Creep.

37:58Sean Pyles:Something else I want to mention here is life insurance. Do you guys have life insurance? No.

38:04Anna Helhoski:I do through work. I believe it's three times my salary. So, okay.

38:10Sean Pyles:I mentioned this because it's very important for couples in your situation with your age gap to have life insurance because Claire, you're likely going to live longer than Robbie. Sorry to bring up death in this conversation, but that's just the fact of life, right? So you want to ensure that Claire, you would have enough resources to help you through the years where you might not have Robbie around, which, you know, it's sad to think about, but also it's great to be prepared and have that base covered.

38:38Anna Helhoski:That's part of why we wanted to have this conversation because she's going to have a much longer time retired. So we need to work together to get to a point where we feel comfortable to where we potentially both can retire.

38:53Sean Pyles:Yeah. And something like a term life insurance policy probably wouldn't be that expensive for either of you to have and you could structure it. So maybe cover the rest of your mortgage, Robbie?

39:03Elizabeth Ayoola:Another thing I want to bring up relating to life insurance is estate planning. Have you thought about estate planning documents? And I think something that people sometimes confuse is they think that you have to be married to kind of plan these things with your partner, but you don't. So estate planning usually contains many different documents, but some of the most important are will. Some people may do a trust to help you avoid probate. You also have your, you know, power of attorneys. All these documents just ensure, you know, heavens forbid one of you is incapacitated and cannot make financial or healthcare decisions, the other person can do it on your behalf.

39:39Elizabeth Ayoola:And since you guys are already planning your finances together, I think that would be something really important to consider. And I know nobody wants to think about, you know, getting sick or dying, but it also can be such a loving thing to do so that if you are in that situation, your partner is not scrambling and trying to think about what to do. And also so that you guys have the power to make decisions on each other's behalf, if that does happen.

39:59Anna Helhoski:Yeah, that's a good reminder because I'm I am going to live much longer than her.

40:05Elizabeth Ayoola:I love it. Competing for who's going to live the longest.

40:07Sean Pyles:Hey, you guys are runners, so you're going to be healthy. I'm a runner, too, so I get it. We'll be living forever. One quick thing I will recommend, and it's much easier than actually getting an estate plan in place, which you should still do, is if you want to making each other beneficiaries of your accounts, like your investment accounts, your bank accounts. That way, if something does happen, you don't even have to go through probate. Your assets are just going to one another. It's really simple. You log into your account portals, you set your beneficiary. It can take 10 minutes to do.

40:35Elizabeth Ayoola:I just want to take a moment out to commend you guys on the mature conversation that you are having and the detail that you're going into the vulnerability, especially after dating for a year. Like it's just very commendable how transparent you guys are with one another and that you're able to come and talk about all these things. Yeah.

40:54Sean Pyles:Thank you so much. It's been clear in talking to you guys that you love each other a lot and you want the best for each other and for your life together. And having all of your finances sorted out is it's a kind of technical, but sort of romantic gift to give each other too, because you're making it so you can have the life you want together. It all comes back to having your finances sorted. Great. Well, Robbie, Claire, thank you so much for coming on and talking with us today.

41:16Elizabeth Ayoola:Thanks for having us. And please, please, please keep us updated. We would love to hear from you. Tell us what happens a year from now. If you get married, invite us, you know, all the things.

41:25Sean Pyles:Yes, we would love to attend. I mean, Elizabeth is just down the road, so.

41:29Elizabeth Ayoola:I am.

41:31Sean Pyles:Well, Robbie and Claire, let's have you guys take us out.

41:33Anna Helhoski:All right. If you want the nerds to answer your money question, call or text the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-NERD

41:48Abby Badach Doy:Or you could email your question like I did to podcast at nerdwallet.com or leave a comment on Spotify or YouTube.

41:55Elizabeth Ayoola:We want you to follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app that might be iHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple Podcasts to automatically download new episodes.

42:04Sean Pyles:Here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances.

42:14Elizabeth Ayoola:And this episode was produced by the best team ever. We have Tess Vigland, Hillary Georgie, who helped with editing, Nick Karisimi, and Eve Krogman mixed our audio and video. And we want to give a huge thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all the ways they help us.

42:29Sean Pyles:And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.