Why Middle Class Budgets Are Cracking and How to Use Travel Points Before They Devalue

12:14Sean Pyles:This is thanks to Built's three new credit cards, the Palladium card, Obsidian card, and Blue card. All three can turn your housing payments, rent, or mortgage into flexible rewards. So you can choose the card that fits your lifestyle without missing out on points and exclusive benefits.

12:29Elizabeth Ayoola:Built points can be redeemed at top airlines and hotels, Amazon.com purchases, future rent payments, and so much more. Built points have also been ranked by top publications as the industry's most valuable point currency.

12:43Sean Pyles:Your housing payment is most likely your biggest expense. Make it your most rewarding. Find the card that fits your lifestyle and apply today at joinbuilt.com slash smartmoney. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash smartmoney. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Terms and limitations apply.

13:02Elizabeth Ayoola:Subject to approval and eligibility. Built cards are issued by Column N.A., member FDIC, pursuant to license for MasterCard International Incorporated.

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14:03Sean Pyles:Let me tell you, Elizabeth, I've been really loving my European linen sheets that I got recently. I feel like they get softer with each wash, and I'm sleeping so well at night.

14:12Elizabeth Ayoola:I appreciate a good pair of sheets. I tried on my bathing suits that I got from Quince. I got the same one in two different colors, and they feel so soft. The fabric feels high quality, and I'm excited to wear them as soon as the pool opens up.

14:25Sean Pyles:Yeah. I mean, summer's right around the corner, right?

14:27Elizabeth Ayoola:It is.

14:28Sean Pyles:Well, if you want to refresh your wardrobe with everyday luxury that you'll actually use, head to quince.com slash smart money for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

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14:48Sean Pyles:Quince.com slash smart money. Today, we're breaking down exactly how to maximize your travel points for a real trip. Miles, hotel points, when to transfer, and how to actually use them before they lose value. And that'll help us answer today's money question, which comes from me.

15:07Elizabeth Ayoola:All right, Sean, what is it this time? What's your question?

15:09Sean Pyles:Okay, I love hijacking the show for my own selfish purposes. And today, it's all about my summer vacation, which is coming up in June. I'm meeting up with my twin sister in Chicago where we grew up for our 35th birthday celebration. And I have a boatload of points that I really need to use. I've had them for many, many years. And I've talked in the past about how I've often been too lazy to really play the point game. But this time, I'm determined to do it in no small part because airline prices are so stupid expensive right now. So I'm going to use my points and hopefully do it the right way.

15:42Sean Pyles:But I do need some help.

15:43Elizabeth Ayoola:Well, luckily, Sean, we both have that in common. As you know, I was on our sister podcast, Smart Travel, to hash out my own travel credit card issues and questions. And I have made a little bit of progress, but I could make more. To help us answer Sean's burning travel questions, on this episode of the podcast, we are joined by Megan Coyle, one half of our sister podcast, Smart Travel. Welcome back to Smart Money, Megan. Thanks for having me, you two.

16:09Sean Pyles:Hey, Megan. Thank you for coming on and indulging me because I have so many questions for you, a real travel expert here. So let me start by explaining my situation. I mentioned that I have this summer trip coming up to Chicago to see my twin sister for our birthday. Very excited for it, but travel is going to be expensive this summer, as it is every summer, but especially so right now. And I discovered a few weeks back that I had about a quarter of a million of Alaska points that I built up over many, many years. And I also have a bunch of points from Marriott that I I recently transferred over from my Amex account and I want to use those for hopefully lodging.

16:48Sean Pyles:So those are my two main things I want to work out as well as other areas where I can just like maximize points. So where do you think is a good place to start? Okay, let's start with those Alaska miles, which are now called Atmos points. Yes. Those are pretty great because you have so many of them. So you have a lot of flexibility with what you can do. I looked up a couple of flights for you on the Atmos Rewards website. It's great because you have this very specific type of airline miles. So you can just do a search right on the Alaska Airlines website. And you can even be kind of flexible with it.

17:22So one thing I like to do is hit flexible dates. I don't know how flexible your dates are since you're meeting up with your twin sister.

17:29Sean Pyles:I'm too much of a control freak to have flexible dates. But I love your thinking. Even just one day off, you know? Even just one day. I'm not going to do it. Okay, that's fair. You have plenty of points. So I think you'll be able to find a flight that works for you anyway. So I looked up a couple of flights and it looks like flights to Chicago from Portland are starting at 9 ,500 Atmos Rewards points. So that's not even going to make a den in your huge stack of Atmos points. You have a lot of ways to get there. And one thing I wanted to mention is that Atmos Rewards actually lets you book with multiple airlines, airlines that are partners of Alaska Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines.

18:10And both of those airlines are part of the One World Alliance. So you actually are able to book American Airlines flights using Atmos points. So I wanted to make sure you knew that was an option because you don't just have to fly on Alaska to Chicago. You could also fly American and use your points that way.

18:31Sean Pyles:OK, interesting. I, for some reason, have like a weird brand grudge against American and United for that matter. Alaska has treated me really well over the years. So I think I'm going to fly with them. And I actually have a bit of a spoiler, which is that I already purchased my flights using points. Oh, good. Actually, you know what? That's a good thing because we don't know what's going to happen with flight prices this summer, especially with rising fuel costs. And there's just a lot of uncertainty in the world. So the advice has been to book flights as soon as you're ready and you find a price that you're comfortable with.

19:04So I'm glad you did that.

19:05Elizabeth Ayoola:I have a question, actually, just for anyone who may be having the same question as me. When you're booking a flight using points, how do you know whether it's worth it to use the points or instead to use cash? That's a great question, Elizabeth. So one thing you could do is calculate the cent per point value that you are getting. So you basically compare the cash price of the flight to the points price by dividing the cash price by the number of points you have to spend. We actually have calculators on NerdWallet's website that can help you do the calculation if you're not so great at the math.

19:37But generally, you want to try to get at least one cent per point for your points because if you were to redeem your points for cash back or in a travel portal of some sort, you could usually at least get one cent per point. But, you know, it can really vary, especially if you have a type of point that maybe is usually worth more. And my team actually does a huge analysis of how much your points and miles are worth every year. So you could also check NerdWallet's website for our valuations and compare, hey, you know, an Atmos rewards point is generally 1.2 cents per point. So if I'm getting less than that, then maybe I'll just pay cash instead.

20:17Sean Pyles:Okay. This is where I end up feeling lazy when it comes to all the points in the cash. And I just think it's not worth my time to be doing this calculation. I'm very glad we have a calculator at NerdWallet that can help me do that. We'll link to that and the other valuation page you mentioned in the show notes here. My decision was further complicated by the fact that I have a companion pass with my Atmos card. So my husband and I were debating, do we want to use either of our companion passes because he also has the Atmos card? Or do we use points or do we use cash? And we ended up going with points because I had so many of them.

20:53Sean Pyles:I was feeling really rich and I was able to get some first class tickets for us for both ways. to and from Chicago out of Portland. And yes, it did wipe out almost all of my points.

21:07Elizabeth Ayoola:No, how many points did you use?

21:11Sean Pyles:Tens of thousands of them over for two tickets. Did I make a big mistake there, Megan? I mean, that sounds like a lot considering I think you can get a lot of domestic flights in the US on Atmos Rewards points for about 10 to 20 ,000 points per way. So I guess, I don't know. So even on the high end, okay, a first class, yeah. You're still saying you made a mistake. I think that's a lot to pay for a sort of short flight. But, you know, if you wanted to go all out on the first class flights because you have the points, do it. Thank you. That's what I wanted to hear. Justify my bad decision making.

21:52Sean Pyles:How would you have done it? That's what I want to know. Considering that for me, comfort was a big priority. I wanted to be in a nice seat and, you know, maybe get a glass of champagne for free. Oh, okay. Well, the glass of champagne for free, I would try to visit a lounge first. I knew you were going to say that.

22:09Elizabeth Ayoola:I would too, though. I'm not so tied to having the glass of champagne in my airplane seat, if that makes sense. So I actually have an Alaska Atmos Rewards card. I have the Summit card, and that one gives you two Alaska lounge passes every quarter. So that probably would have been my move is just to use my two lounge passes and get some champagne before the flight. But I generally save a lot of my Atmos rewards points when I want to fly first or business class for international flights. They're a little bit longer so I can have as many meals, as many snacks, as many drinks as possible before we land.

22:49Sean Pyles:Yeah. Yeah. Because my flight to Chicago, just about four hours. So it's not horribly long. But for me, that's kind of the point where at the end, I really want to get off the plane. So I'm hoping that I'm not itching in that same way at the end of the four hours. And in fact, maybe I want to keep hanging out in this plane because it's so comfy. There you go. Maybe. It reminds me that Air New Zealand just launched these bunk beds and you can book them for four hour increments. And we were all debating, is four hours enough or is it too short or is it too long maybe for a real nap? I don't know.

23:23What do you think? I'm stuck on bunk beds.

23:26Sean Pyles:I want a 20 minute power nap. Four hours stuck in a bunk bed sounds kind of miserable. What if you want to sit up? Are you stuck in the bunk bed? Yeah, you kind of can't sit up super well, depending on which bunk you have. If it was an overnight flight, I'm totally down for that. But then four hours also isn't enough to sleep all night. Can you choose your bunk roomie? I mean, if your companion also buys a bunk bed space, then yeah, but there's six bunk beds in the little sky nest. So you don't get to choose all of them, I would imagine.

23:56Elizabeth Ayoola:Wow, I'm still stuck on that.

23:57Sean Pyles:I think you need to do some investigative reporting here, Megan. I know. I'm so curious, so many questions. Personally crawl into the bunk beds for you. I'll let you know how it goes. Please. Yes. Okay. Well, I want to turn now to my Marriott points and the fact that they were at one point Amex points. And in a stressed panic when I was on my honeymoon in Seoul, I transferred all these points over to Marriott because we were at an Airbnb that was less than ideal. And then I almost was able to book a hotel room. But then something happened with their website where it didn't quite book it. I went back to look at the reservation again.

24:33Sean Pyles:And by that point, the room five minutes later was much more expensive points wise. I feel like I was getting scammed a little. So I said, I'm not going ahead with this. I'm just going to stick it out in this Airbnb and it was fine. But I do still have all these points. It's around 100 ,000 points. Oh, so I've never really used Marriott points before. What's maybe best practices here? Oh, OK. So similarly to the way I tried searching your Atmos rewards points and what kinds of redemption options you had, I would just go ahead and search on the Marriott website for Chicago as a whole. You know Chicago a lot better than I do since you were up there.

25:11So try to find the hotels with the best location. Location matters so much more than any of the other amenities, in my opinion. So I would look there and figure out which ones meet the location needs first and then which ones fall into your points price range. How many nights are you trying to spend there, by the way?

25:31Sean Pyles:My husband and I will be there for about a week. Okay. So. That might be tough with only 100 ,000. Yeah. And I was hoping to book my sister's room in the same hotel as a gift to her, hopefully using points. But it sounds like that's not going to be the case. That might be difficult unless you're staying at an airport hotel. That's not going to happen. Yeah. I want to be near the lake. Okay. So it's going to be a little more expensive.

25:59Elizabeth Ayoola:Yeah. Megan, what I want to know is how do hotel points differ from airline points? I know this is a very broad question, but based on what you just said, that 100 ,000 points isn't going to get you far with hotel points, how do they differ? Hotel points are generally worth a little bit less than airline miles in most cases. You can see all the airline programs and hotel programs that we analyzed for evaluations. and most of the hotel points are worth less than one cent. So, you know, you're getting maybe 0.7 cents, 0.6 cents. And I mean, we're talking about half of one cent, everyone. That is just such a small amount of rewards.

26:43Yeah. And so it's very common to see, especially luxury hotels, room rates going for more than 100 ,000 points a night. In fact, I looked up for your Chicago trip. I was like, ooh, you know, there's a great hotel I've heard about in Chicago. That's a Marriott property. It's called The Gwen. And I was like, let me just look and see how many points it is. Oh, my gosh. 177 ,000 Marriott points per night. How many years would it take to accrue those points? Right? Exactly.

27:13Sean Pyles:So what I'm hearing is that I made another mistake by transferring over to Marriott. Would you have done that or no? I understand the situation you are in. And we always say not to transfer points speculatively, which means not having a redemption in mind, not having a property in mind, not having the dates in mind, knowing how much those nights at that property were going to cost before you transfer them. That's kind of what we want to try to avoid. But you did sort of have a redemption in mind. It just didn't work out. Yes. That happens, too. Like the availability just disappears one second and then you're like, oh, no, I can't transfer them back to Amex.

27:50You know what I mean? It goes one way most of the time. And so now you have a bunch of points with Marriott and you now have to use them pretty much with Marriott. That's OK, though. You know, I think there are so many different properties that fall under the Marriott umbrella. And maybe instead of doing your whole week long vacation on points with Marriott points, you could do just a couple of nights. One trick that I really like with Marriott is you can actually pay for four nights on points and get the fifth night free. So that's a great way to kind of maximize the value of your points because you're getting that extra night for free.

28:29And again, great for a long trip like yours. Yeah.

28:32Sean Pyles:And I assume those have to be consecutive days, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that actually might work really well because my husband and I are flying in on Monday and then my twin and her husband are flying in or driving in on Thursday. So, you know, I don't know if I'll be able to get all five nights, but I might be able to get some days out of my points and then just stay somewhere else with my sister. There you go. It sounds like an amazing trip, Sean. It's going to be really fun. My sister is pregnant right now, and so I'm excited to see her coming along in her pregnancy and seeing all of our Chicago sites together and celebrating our birthday.

29:03Sean Pyles:So it's going to be really lovely. But something I've been kind of grappling with, besides the fact that I realized I maybe made a mistake with booking my first class ticket, is that there's always a sense of disappointment after I burn through all of my points. Like it took me probably around eight years to get up to a quarter of a million Alaska points. I did just get my signup bonus for the Atmos Summit card. But that said, now my balance is much lower than it was just a few weeks back. And I would like it to get back to where it was and not have to wait eight years. How do you handle a disappointment?

29:37Sean Pyles:Are you just over it? And then how do you work to build it back up again? You know, I pour one out for it. I'm out there drinking my rooftop cocktail at some hotel being like, there goes my 100 ,000 points. I use to book this hotel. One thing I try to remind myself is that it's actually better to use your points consistently. So when your points balance is dropping, that means you're doing it right. So that's reassurance. And the other thing I think about is that there are many ways to earn more points. And in fact, there are new ways to earn more points every year. And it might not necessarily be opening a new credit card because I know not everyone wants to do that every single year.

30:21So there are all sorts of different programs that come up. There are new promotions that come up. And I've always been surprised that even though you might spend your points on one thing, the next year you find a new opportunity to earn points and you might take advantage of that. And then maybe you have a different type of point and you can go somewhere else and have a completely different type of experience. So I think the possibilities are really exciting anyway. Okay.

30:46Sean Pyles:Are you referring here to the sort of coupon book structure where certain credit cards will have like quarterly categories that are revolving through where this quarter we're giving you X amount more on gas or groceries? Is that what you mean? Yes. There are some credit cards that have quarterly bonuses on certain categories, but actually that's not exactly what I was thinking of. So you mentioned you have an Amex card, right? Yes. I'm thinking of canceling it soon. Oh, no. Okay. We can have a conversation about that later. Before you do, one thing I do with my Amex card is I earn extra Amex points through Rakuten.

31:24Have you heard of Rakuten before? Yes. Yeah. It's generally known as a cash back shopping platform. It's an online shopping platform. And basically, you can go through either their website or you can download their online browser extension. And then anytime you're online shopping, if they have a deal or promo for cash back with that retailer, you just activate it and bam, you're getting cash back on your purchase. But the best part is you can opt to not earn cash back and you could opt to earn Amex points instead if you have an eligible Amex card. So I actually do this with my Amex card is I've set up my Rakuten to earn Amex points.

32:07and Sean, Elizabeth, you would not believe the bonuses on this Rakuten platform. Like I just bought my contact lenses and for some reason it was 10 points per dollar for 10 % cash back on my contact lens purchase, which is honestly a couple hundred dollars, right? Because I have to wear contacts every single day. And so suddenly I'm getting thousands of points just for buying my$300 contact lens supply. Yeah.

32:36Sean Pyles:What is typically a really boring purchase anyway, you've made into a huge opportunity to get a lot of points. Exactly. And they have all sorts of offers like that on things I actually like to spend on, like travel. I've been able to get huge bonus points on the tours I've taken and different locations, on hotels that I've booked with cash. So I'm like, at least I got something. At least I got some extra bonus points. Even, you know, things you like buying. Like, for example, I have an Amex Platinum card and I try to use the Lululemon$75 quarterly credit, right?

33:10Elizabeth Ayoola:Megan, you're going to be proud of me. Can I interrupt you and tell you that actually I'm partnering with my boyfriend who also has that card. And I've told him that he has to give me his Lululemon credit every month so I can buy new workout outfits. And I'm going to use mine too. A win. Double win. Hell yeah.

33:30Sean Pyles:$150 every quarter for Lululemon alone. Good on you, Elizabeth. That's amazing. Wait, I think it's$75. But she's getting hers and her boyfriends, right? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, exactly. So combined. Oh, wow. Okay, you can actually afford a pair of leggings then. Because that's the problem with that. Don't get me started.

33:46Elizabeth Ayoola:Don't get me started on the cost of the stuff on that website, okay? I was like, I could barely buy something for$75. But hey, two is better than one. There you go. Okay, and you can use Rakuten now. So since you have an Amex card, when you go to Lululemon to make the purchase, just make sure your Rakuten bonus is activated and then you'll be earning extra Amex points on it as well. This is why we have you on the show. And also, Megan, I love that you're bringing out creative ways to earn those bonus points because sometimes I find my mind stuck on having to spend more money. And I'm like, I don't want to spend more money to get more points because I don't need to buy, you know, to overspend basically.

34:23Elizabeth Ayoola:So I love that there are other ways to do it. 100%. I also get really excited about new cards. I'll be honest, you know, I love traveling on points and just seeing how creative some of the credit card benefits are, I think is fun. So if you are trying to look for more bonus points and you are ready for a new credit card, I would check some of the roundups we have on the NerdWallet website for best travel cards. And you'll find that there are tons of new cards. If you haven't looked in a while, they have a lot of different benefits and benefits that are specific to cardholders. If you fly with some of these airlines and you don't have a card, you're truly missing out on some benefits.

35:04Sean Pyles:My issue, Megan, is that I'm so lazy when it comes to travel credit cards that I really admire how much time you and Sally, your co-hosts and Smart Travel spend thinking about how to maximize your points. But I simply can't channel my ADHD hyper focus into this channel. How can I earn more points without spending a lot of time or money? That's a great question. So like I said, the shopping portals is one of my number one ways. I'm a built stan for - Built credit card? The built - Honestly, you don't even have to use the built credit card, but the built rewards program is this loyalty program. They call it like a neighborhood loyalty program, and they let you earn points possibly on rent and mortgage payments, as well as dining out and all these things.

35:52They also have credit cards that we talked about a bit on the Smart Travel podcast. So that might also be another great option to earn more points. They're partners with Alaska Airlines and the Atmos Rewards Program. So Sean, if you're looking for more Atmos points, and you don't want another credit card, looking into the BILT program could be a good one.

36:13Sean Pyles:Okay. So it sounds like signing up for programs like the BILT program, or even getting on the Rakuten, having that connection, just having the systems kind of work for you as you're doing your regular everyday shopping is going to be the easiest way to do it. Yeah, exactly. Something else you mentioned earlier was why it's really important to use your points and not let them devalue over time. Can you talk more about that? Because I think that some folks aren't aware that their points do lose value, just like the dollar, because there's essentially point inflation, right? And they're hoarding.

36:40Right. Okay. So let's talk about, I guess, some definitions of points. On one side, there are credit card points. And those are the points like Amex points or Chase points that you earn through a credit card. And those points can then be used for cash back. You could use them to book flights or hotels in those issuers' travel portals, or you could transfer them to other airline and hotel loyalty programs the way you transferred your Amex points to Marriott. So credit card points generally don't devalue as much because they have a standard constant cent per point value for the most part for their redemptions.

37:22For example, in Chase, if you redeem your Chase points in the Chase Travel Portal, then you're generally getting about one cent per point. Unless you happen to get one of these special points boost eligible bookings. I won't go too much into what that is, but basically you could get slightly more value for your points. But otherwise, you're just getting this sort of constant one cent per point value. But then when you transfer your points to airlines or hotels, those loyalty programs often use dynamic pricing and they can charge, you know, more points for more expensive flights or more expensive hotel stays.

38:01And the thing about this is it can be a little bit opaque, like how much value you're actually getting for your points. And with dynamic pricing, you might not even realize that a hotel stay that's$300 would have cost you, let's say, 40 ,000 points last year. And then this year, it's going to cost you 50 ,000 points for that same$300 hotel stay at the same hotel. So sometimes, you know, points lose value because of inflation, where the rates of hotels are going up and then they are charging more points, but it's not at the same proportion as it was a year before. Does that make sense? OK.

38:40Sean Pyles:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What I'm hearing is I should probably book my hotel room sooner than later. Exactly. And same with airlines. This happens because people don't really know the value of their points. And so airlines and hotels can kind of quietly raise prices and you might not even know that you're not getting as much for your 100 ,000 points as you would have before. Okay, that's helpful. Well, I'm wondering if you can think of anything else besides what I've already outlined that people do wrong when it comes to booking hotels or flights with points. The thing I think people are doing wrong with their points and miles is not doing enough comparison shopping across all of them.

39:20And I know that sounds really, really hard because you get some type of credit card point. Maybe it can transfer to like 12 or 15 different partners. And you're like, am I going to check all these airline programs and see which one has the lowest rates? But the answer is you don't actually have to do that. There are a lot of award search tools out there that let you search across all of these different programs and find the best points prices. I really wish people looked at those a little bit more often. A lot of them have free versions, so you can kind of get an idea of what points programs might be best for your points and then book actually the best redemption for you.

40:00Sean Pyles:Okay. I think that would do the legwork for me that I really don't want to do, that I feel a lot of resistance to even engage with. What's the name of maybe one of these platforms, just so I can look into it? Some examples are Points Yeah. They actually won our 2026 Best of Awards for Best Award Search Tool. for hotels. There's a program called Gondola. We have a whole roundup of these on the NerdWallet website that we can link to, but you should try them. They're really fun. And honestly, it helps you kind of understand the whole ecosystem a little bit better. Okay. Well, I have already transferred my points, so I'm kind of stuck with Marriott for now and I have my flights.

40:37Sean Pyles:But for my next travel using points, Elizabeth, maybe if you have travel coming up. You can do all these things.

40:44Elizabeth Ayoola:I do. And I have been a notorious point hoarder. So thank you for telling me why I should use my points, Megan. Actually, since I came on y 'all show, I decided to use my points. I used them this year to book my trip to Barbados. I didn't use points for that. Yeah. It felt good to not have to pay for the ticket. I'm also going to Florida. I plan to use points for that as well. And I might be going to Ohio. So who knows? Maybe I'll end the year spending all my points. I probably have like 150 ,000 airline points left.

41:09Sean Pyles:Ohio is quite the exotic location to use your points to travel to.

41:13Elizabeth Ayoola:Well, I'm going to see a friend. So not very exotic. It's a play date vacation.

41:18Sean Pyles:I've been through Ohio many times before. So yeah, I know it well. Wonderful. Well, Megan, thank you so much for coming on. If you could leave me someone who is, I guess, doing everything wrong here with one final piece of advice, what would that be? Sean, I think you should try just letting the points take you where they're going to take you. So being more open to flexible dates or even a flexible destination, that's one thing I do all the time is I actually just look at the Explore tab on Google Flights. There's also an Explore tab on some of these points award search programs that I was talking about.

41:51And they will just show you, hey, if you want to travel in the month of August, here's where you could go for less points. And I'm like, OK, I'll go there. So really having no destination in mind and letting the points take you where you want to go, I think you might be surprised at how much fun it is.

42:08Sean Pyles:Okay, you're saying relinquish control. I might have to talk with my therapist about that one. Well, thank you so much, Megan. And listeners, if you've not checked out Smart Travel, I highly recommend it. It's super fun. And there's way more about travel and points and everything else on that podcast. Thanks so much for having me, you too. All right, Megan, can you do the honor of reading us out? I would love to. So that's all we have for this episode. But remember, listener, that we're here to answer your money questions. So turn to the nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373.

42:40That's 901-730-N-E-R-D. You can also email us at podcast at nerdwallet.com.

42:48Elizabeth Ayoola:Join us next time to hear about how to get out of a debt crisis. Follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app, including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes.

42:59Sean Pyles:Here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances.

43:09Elizabeth Ayoola:This episode was produced by Tess Vigeland, Hillary Georgie helped with editing, Eve Krogman edits our audio and video, and a big thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all of their help.

43:20Sean Pyles:And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.

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43:35Elizabeth Ayoola:Every issue has clips from recent episodes, links to stories you might have missed, and also behind-the-scenes commentary from me, Sean, and our producer.

43:45Sean Pyles:Some of it is stuff that doesn't make it into the episodes. The context, the moments, the takes we didn't plan on sharing.

43:50Elizabeth Ayoola:You can think of it as the group chat for smart money fans. I'm going to be sharing inside details about parenting and money. Yes, I'll be sharing all the juicy stuff.

44:00Sean Pyles:And I'll have loads of tips about what I'm doing in my garden. So if you want to putz around your garden like I do, sign up for the newsletter. And also, you know, we have money tips and all that kind of stuff. So head to nerdwallet.com slash podcast to sign up. Again, it's free.

44:13Elizabeth Ayoola:That's nerdwallet.com slash podcast. We'll see you in your inbox. Have no fear. Chosen Foods is here to defend your favorite foods from the forces of seedy oils and sketchy ingredients. With cooking oils, salad dressings and mayo, all powered by the good fats from 100 % pure avocado oil and simple, delicious ingredients. Chosen Foods.