207 - No Agencies Allowed: Creating Massive Home Service Growth without an Agency with Steve Hunsaker

0:00We did a 10.87x ROAS on$10 ,800 last year on Facebook ad spend with no agency spend. With videos filmed with an iPhone and an Amazon lapel mic, I've had six or seven terrible agency experiences. Like, I know. I've hired them and fired them. Every home service business owner that is listening to me knows that this is true. People call me the grim reaper of ad agencies. What's funny is the only agencies that get upset at that are bad agencies. Big agencies agree with me.

0:34All right, Steve Hunsaker, I can already tell we're gonna have a freaking amazing conversation. And the reason I know it's going to be amazing is because we're talking about the sexiest, unsexiest business, which are home services. And you already teed it up for me. It's like I have the YouTube clip already in my mind, which is if you have an agency that's not doing a million dollars a year, stop paying outside agencies to do marketing. You're a plumber, you're an electrician, you're an HVAC, you're a window washer, and you're doing less than a million. Don't pay people to do outside marketing.

1:03Do it yourself. Yeah, for sure. What we believe, and I will argue with anybody on this, is if you have a home service or blue collar trade of any kind. So if you're a lower ticket one, it's probably like 500K to 700K a year if you're like a window cleaner or a pressure washer. If you're like a construction guy, a pool construction, landscape construction, that number is probably like one and a half mil, whatever it is. But if you have a blue collar home service or contracting trade that does less than one and a half million dollars a year or less than a million a year, you can't afford a good agency.

1:36So the only people you can afford to make the numbers make sense are ad agencies. And a lot of this conversation is in meta ads, but it's like you can't afford a good one. So the people you can afford are the thousand dollar a month retainer agencies that bid them cheap, stack them deep. So they go and their churn is higher than you. Most of these guys will never tell you the truth, but most of these types of agencies that target lower revenue home service businesses probably have close to 20 to 30 % monthly churn. Therefore, that is the market telling them that their system is broken. And so I'm a firm believer that every home service business owner, whether they're an owner op or have like at least a small team should be running at least meta ads internally themselves.

2:22So if I'm sitting at home or listening to this or watching YouTube, whatever, I'm probably thinking to myself, well, who the freak is Steve Unseeker to tell me I shouldn't spend lots of money on my home services business that's doing less than a million dollars a year. Tell us your background, man. Yeah, well, I've owned three in the last five years. So I just turned 30. I started my first one when I was 25, 24, 25. So in 2020, I currently own a temporary Christmas light business that in that two months every year, last year we did$800 ,000 over a two month period. So it's like 56 install days or something like that.

2:56Middle of October to like early December. And then I owned a junk removal business in the past that I started after the Christmas light business to just keep the main core Christmas staff employed year round, you know? Fill that one up. Like it was like basically like side hustle stuff just to keep you guys busy. Got that one to like low six figures. It was not impressive. We've since gotten rid of the junk removal business. And now I have a permanent lighting business that my crews basically operate themselves year round. That's like the permanent mobile app color changing lights on like the people's house.

3:27That's getting really popular. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Completely different market from the temporary business. Our temporary business is like super white glove pro athletes, celebrities, like$10 million houses,$5 million houses,$3 million houses. the permanent christmas lights is much more like middle upper class family like family people things it's very well yeah i mean let's be honest they look junky okay i'm sorry i'm not i'm not putting lights on my house i know i'm attacking your business right here but like no no no you know come on who's doing that the light show yeah well ours you can't see during the day so like they don't look junky because they they're hidden it's like matched like it's in a track that's like matched.

4:08I agree. The problem is that you see them at night. That's the problem. What's crazy is like, you've probably got annoying neighbors. A lot of our customers put it on security lighting mode where it's like every seven bulbs is dimly lit, warm white. And it looks like down lighting on the house. It doesn't look like Christmas. So I agree with you. If my neighbor had like rainbow lights in June, I'd be like, dude, what the hell are you doing? but there's a market what do we do who am i to tell these people not to do it no i'm just kidding i dude there's totally a market for i mean chris my best friend and business partner on a couple things he's he's like he loves that i think he's doing it at his house this year because he's like dude it totally makes sense it looks good it's cheap and you can actually program it and change things whatever here's what i really want to talk to you when you say the words 800 000 and two months 56 day install days yeah i think everybody listening like perks up a little bit they're like hold on come again what yeah yeah our model's insane it's it's uh i just got lucky like they're just i got into it i got into a market and i picked a niche where there wasn't a lot of like high quality competition but four and a half years ago and i just got lucky like i i don't think that if i started a roofing company five years ago it would be nearly as successful because i got to learn without like dog competition now it's seemingly doing okay so yeah i'll break i'll break down the model.

5:28So basically what we do, what we do is I'm in Scottsdale, Arizona. So a little bit of money, but like every market has their version of Scottsdale. Every major metro market has their version of Scottsdale, right? So a little bit upper class, a lot of, a lot of second home people, everything else. So what we do is in 2020, I went on sweaty startup on Reddit and I was a sales bro at a tech company and I was forced to go over the phones and I was calling CFOs to, you know, sell them like HCM services and like the mid-market enterprise level. And they're like, I just lit off a thousand people, dude, read the room.

6:01And I'm like, all right, I can't, I'm not going to do this. You know, we were all staying at home. So I went on sweaty startup. I looked at like cool ways to make money. And then one like tiny little subreddit was holiday lighting. And so I then went into a Christmas light group and I saw a lot of dudes in there that were like saying they're doing, you know, a hundred grand a season, 50 grand a season. I found this one dude in the East coast who said he didn't even graduate high school. and he was doing like three or 400 K a year or something like that. And I was like, damn. So I found this dude, got the sauce from him.

6:29And I realized that like what in my market, what was happening is there was a lot of guys hanging Christmas lights, but it was a lot of like handyman, high school kid landscaper that does it on the side window clear. There isn't that doesn't on the side. And there wasn't just like the white glove high end, what these people in three, five, $10 million homes are used to being served like in their other, transactions. There wasn't that business that was like branded well, whatever white glove for temporary Christmas light displays. So I started that in 2020. And I sold a chiropractor at my gym, like a$1 ,200,$1 ,300 install and was like, Oh, okay, proof of concept, you know, whatever.

7:10So I started running some Google ads, whatever else. I like to tell this part because like, I think every entrepreneur has like this moment. I was like 2425, whatever, never owned a business in my life. I got in touch with this guy who had just sold his, he had just owned a bunch of rehab centers and it exited for like a hundred mil. And so I roll up to this quote and keep in mind, frame it, never like ran a business myself ever. Let's frame it properly. So I roll up to this dude's house and he's got a Lambo up front. And I'm like, I don't even know how to sell this stuff, you know, like whatever else I give him this quote on the roofline.

7:44And from that Facebook group, I'd had the sauce, you know, I buy the product for about$2 a foot. I sell it for eight, at that time now we sell it for a lot more but sell it for eight pretty good forex on your cost of goods whatever else pretty solid if i'm doing the labor myself that's a pretty good hustle yeah so great margin i quote this guy i quote this guy and his roofline was like you know 1400 bucks and he was like cool man sounds good and i was like okay and there's just like some silence and then he was like what else could we do and i was like what else like we're already at 1500 bucks I didn't know that there was this, like, I was still that in that stage where as a business owner, you're like selling out of your own pocket.

8:23You're like 1500 bucks. I would never pay that. And then he's like, well, what else do we do? And so I'm just like, yeah, you know? And so I'm like looking around his yard and I was like, Oh, well, there's this tree. And he's like, how much would that cost to wrap? And I was like, uh, uh, well, and I started doing the math. Okay. If I buy this strand for$10 a strand and I hang it for 45, I sell it to him for 45. It's like a three and a half or four and a half X. Okay. And so I was like, that tree will be four 50. And he's like, okay, cool. What else? And then I was like, well, uh, uh, we can do a reed here.

8:50And I'd like never hung a reed on reeds, you know, whatever. And by the end of it, we were at like a 3 ,000, three, it was like a$3 ,300 ticket, whatever else I remember. So I was in person with him, walked through it. And then when I got back to my desk and I was on the phone with him, that was when we were, you know, he was, what else can we do? What else can we do? And I had the picture of his house in front of me, you know, just kept, we got to 3 ,300. so video is cool but i have what scientists call a face for radio and so it's even cooler is long form audio via my podcast and my newsletter nickonomicspod.com go there for free subscribe to my newsletter it's one email per week super tactical and then go to my audio podcast i do three to five episodes a week depending on how curious i am and it's stuff like this it's all free no sleazy sales pitches nickonomicspod.com and i remember he was like cool you want my amex and i was like uh yeah yeah i do i do yeah yeah okay let's let's let's take that amex i don't have a way to process that but yeah actually i thank god i did but it's shocking so he gave me 50 down and i remember i hung up the phone processed the credit card and i just stood up from my desk and i walked over to my roommate's room i was living with five dudes at the time and uh i walked over to my roommate's room and i was like dude this guy just gave me $3 ,000 something dollars to hang Christmas lights.

10:02And he was like, pumped about it. And my roommate was like, he was trading, he's a financial advisor, he was trading for the CFP or whatever. He was like, what the f - you know, just like we both of us were like, that's, that can't be real. And so then I just cranked it from there. That first year we did just, it was like 98K, something like that, like right at 100K. Let's round up and call it 100K. 100K. Yeah. And I did everything myself, did the sales myself, hired like a few under the table friends to just like help me do a few installs and then year two i offloaded the ops and we ran up to like 250k in year two so then i just did sales oh my gosh and then i had guys installing year three we ran up to like 350k terrible year that like i almost went bankrupt long story i won't i won't i'll bore the people with the sob story so i hired a bad operator let's get to the bankruptcy let's get to the bank okay before that i want to back up yeah so very similar i had ann mcginty on this podcast she did a christmas lighting business her first year doing it was right around a hundred thousand dollars and she was like oh shoot this is a real thing and i only did this in three months and it's awesome she though went and took a course she got certified she like paid to understand how to do it you reached out to a guy on a subreddit who was successful, like I said, on the East Coast.

11:22Did you pay him? Was it like, hey, dude, I'll... Completely free. Just phone calls. Just phone calls. Completely free. Yeah, a lot of these guys, and I will always commend them for that. There's a lot of guys in the home service space who just, like, they hit that certain number. They're not on money Twitter. They're not on social media. They just, like, they hit a certain number, and they're happy with it. They don't want to make a scale. You know, whatever else. And then, like, when young dudes call them, and they just, like, are hungry, and they're not in their market. it they were they like giving back yeah and that was kind of that that moment it was insane did you get certified at all were you like how did you learn how to install for anybody's listening it's not just oh i'm getting on a ladder and i'm hooking on to someone's gutter well i guess i don't know your exact business but my assumption is you actually go on and you install these i don't know plates effectively so that every year you can kind of come back and reinstall those lights i don't know if that was what you were doing but did you not even how did you learn how to do that stuff no not even yeah no so no no plates none of that that's just the permanent lighting the temporary is just like clips and stuff like that very simple so what we do is we buy bulk socket wire like commercial grade socket wire bulk bulbs whatever else and we wire cutters like cut these lights slap a male plug on one side female plug on the other create our own extension cords on that jazz and we fit the roof line lights to the roof so if you go to home depot and buy lights it's like when you you know maybe you bought a 50 foot strand you only use 45 you got five feet hanging on the side it looks like crap you tuck it in the gutter you can still see it ours are like cut to fit their roof so the bulbs right in the peak of like the dorm room whatever else it looks really nice so that's our model yeah but you can do it you can do it where you like run some type of metal frame along the house so that every year you come back you just easily clip it in right yeah in arizona we don't have gutters and like any houses and so like traxxas systems don't play as well here but honestly most of the temporary light companies are just clipping like almost everybody's just clipping but arizona is just like it doesn't rain here so we're not gonna have gutters yeah yeah so like drainage is a nightmare what do you do with the lights you just store them yeah so i stored them in the spare bedroom in my house for year one and then we got storage units in year we had storage unit in year two and then storage units in year three and then bigger storage units in year four or beginning of year four.

13:44And then last year and before the season started, we moved to a warehouse in Scottsdale, like by the airport. You probably have data on this. What percentage of people do it one year and then never have you back? Our retention is kind of interesting because this is where Arizona becomes very different. When you sell the high end in Arizona, these people are not all Arizona residents. It's a lot of Chicago snowbirds. It's a lot of Canadian snowbirds, a lot of whatever else. And so we retain like in terms of in terms of like actual people that liked us are in arizona the next year didn't move whatever else like high 60 but we lose about 20 every year just off of hey steve we're not going to be in town this year we're actually christmasing in maui we're actually yeah we're actually christmas they say christmasing is that is that oh my god actually christmasing in our in our uh like one of my customers who this one this one hurt one of our residential installs like 15 grand and they love us like think we walk on water and then last year like oh steve we're going to our bozeman estate this christmas so we will be back in two years and i was like oh my gosh you know so that 15 grand do people say we're kwanzaa in south america this year we're we are hanukkah ing we're hanukkah ing this year in upstate new york you know no just nothing like that yet yeah yeah it's a very interesting what do you do with the lights that you custom fit you just throw them away or do you try to reuse them yeah so the bulk of the cost is in the bulb the socket wire is pretty cheap so the socket wire is like i can get i can get you know a thousand feet of socket wire for 230 bucks so you can refit it yeah or just like if we're busy just and a new customer just rip out a new roll but the bulk of the cost is the bulbs and so the bulbs are about 80 cents to a dollar 10 a bulb depending on who you're buying from oh Oh, dang.

15:38Okay. Yeah. And so if you're doing, you know, a 300 foot house, that's not nothing. And so if somebody does not come back, we just recycle the bulb somewhere else. What kind of margins do you have on that business? Last year, we ended at about a little over 30%, but the growth is expensive. So like, what I mean is we're still installing product I bought in year one because it's a commercial grade product. It's only being used for two months a year and then being stored in a climate controlled spot what yeah did you go hog wild like why did you buy so much product in year one no i mean like when people leave we'll recycle it and it's still it's still active oh got it got it what i mean is like the growth is expensive so in year four we did 500k in year five we did 800 and so that 300 000 of growth is a lot of product it's about oh i see what you're saying so if i ever decided that we didn't want to grow we could very easily operate at about 45 50 that's insane man but i like growth i i'm a big fan now like entrepreneurially like i'm a very big fan of feeding managers and feeding leadership positions like i want it as big as humanly possible so that one i don't have to do everything and two the people that stick with me and that i hire as manager or installers and they become shift leads and they become managers and they become director of operations, all that jazz.

17:04Like my guys are comped very well. And so like, I'm going to keep growing it so I can keep comping people very well and keep firing myself from every position. How did you grow? I mean, that's, that's really interesting to me because are you out knocking doors? Are you like sending flyers out or like, what are you doing to grow? Never knocked a door in my life ever. Okay. That's surprising, but okay. Well, I mean, I knock doors in sales, like when I was in my first sales job. As an entrepreneur, I have never knocked a door. This is where, like, what am I, Gen Z or a millennial? This is where, like, that comes out, where, like, when I was knocking doors as a sales bro, it was, like, the bane of my existence.

17:44Like, I used to go, I used to sell freight services for my first job, and I would go park at warehouse, like, big warehouse freight park areas, and door knock eight hours a day, five days a week. So once I started this, I was like, I need to find a way to get customers to come to me. I hated being told to F off a hundred times a day. So what we do and how we've grown the entire time is largely like to get it off the ground. It was a lot of Google ads that has changed. So Google ads from year one to three were like Google pay-per-click. We're like it. Like that was like, I would just max that thing out.

18:18Give me every click. I know I have the sales process. Good. In 2021 or 2022 season. So year three, there was eight people competing with me for Google pay-per-click ads. This year, this last year, there was 30 something. So Google, like every other home service and blue collar contracting trade, Google pay-per-click has gotten twice, if not three times expensive for the trades. And so what I cracked in year four was Facebook ads and I don't use agencies. So we use Facebook, Instagram ads, and we scale the ever living schnoz out of that. But the key with Facebook ads is like a lot of people say Facebook ads don't work.

18:59So if you want to get tactical here, I firmly believe that there's two types of home service business owners. There's home service business owners who say Facebook ads don't work. And then there's home service business owners who have tested four or five video creatives before they find the one that works. That's the only two. Those are the only two. Because Facebook has 190 million active American users every month. Instagram has like 169 million, something like that. That was like 2024 data. And so if you think about that, the arrogance to say that a platform that has half of the US population active on it weekly does not work.

19:36Meanwhile, Facebook is like, I think they're a trillion dollar company now, depending on the stock price when we're talking, like market cap, you're gonna say a trillion dollar company just doesn't work across the board when there's guys like me and thousands of other home service business owners that are making it work. And so usually that's a self-limiting belief. So here's my question. It works if it's that difficult to make work, right? Because like you said, there's either the ones who said it doesn't work or the ones who tested four or five ad creatives before they actually go with one. Many home services companies under a million dollars, they don't have the time to sit and iterate, test, figure out what exactly works and what doesn't work.

20:14Your contention is if you're doing under a million, under a million and a half, depending on the business, you can't afford an agency. So you got to learn it yourself. How do you balance the two? It seems like those are conflicting ideas. Okay. So let's start with the economics behind paying an agency when you're small, right? Let's start there. So, Hey, I don't know if you remember this, but when we started this podcast, we entered into a social contract. I would spend time, energy, and money producing this podcast, interviewing these individuals and giving you insights into how to build, buy, start, grow your business.

20:45And you would like, subscribe, and leave me a five-star review. Now, out of that, we both get to talk to really cool people and hear really cool insights. We both get a ton of value. But I just want to help you keep your word. So would you do me a favor? Will you go leave a five-star review for me on Apple or Spotify? It would really help. And if you want, even share this with a friend. Let's say agency comes to you and says, yeah, our retainer is$900 a month,$1 ,000 a month. Okay. And so let's say you're doing a hundred thousand, you want to hit a hundred thousand dollars and articulate what an agency does for, yeah.

21:19So like if you're, if you're an ad, if an ad agency is essentially like, if we're talking about Facebook and ad agency will say, they'll come to you and say, Oh, we're really experts at running Facebook ads. And we can, if you, if you sign up with us and pay us our thousand dollar monthly retainer, we have the secret sauce that can help you generate leads on Facebook. And that was the case five years ago. And they kind of do three things. You're going to tell me I'm wrong. I'm summarizing here. They kind of do three things they can write the ad copy they do the creative which is the visual component of it and then they understand how to do all the knobs bells and whistles on the back end of meta to get it to focus on the right people and then they supposedly hopefully they're a b testing which ones work but like those are the three functions is that fair all right yeah yeah let's go through the three functions this is great so those three functions you listed writing ad copy i could screen share with you right now and have chat gbt write me highly converting ad copy in five minutes okay right okay so ai has displaced that let's go to creative right we did a 10.87 x roas on 10 800 last year on facebook ad spend with no agency spend with videos filmed with an iphone and an amazon lapel mic with that was that's like 45 and then if you want to make it look really nice because for anybody listening where it's like oh but like maybe my videos look like trash an iphone in 2025 has a better camera than what hollywood studios were using in the early 2000s so get that out of your head so it's not like the agency's doing something crazy when we talk about creative the creative that sells on facebook now and the thing that stops the scroll is what we talk about is they want to see the owner and so like still image works still but not as well the ads that work for us is me getting on the screen like me on camera and we do five things in every single ad or most ads.

23:09When someone's brand new, we tell them to do these five things. It's call out the location that the ads are showing the first words out of your mouth. So if you're running a Facebook ad in Scottsdale, Arizona, the first words out of your mouth are what's up, Scottsdale, Arizona? Because boom, if I live in Scottsdale and I see an ad that says, what's up, my neighborhood? I'm like, oh, interesting. Whereas if you heard someone say, what's up, Philadelphia? You'd be like, what? Scroll. Let me see another dog video. you. So call out the location you're targeting first words out of your mouth, who you are, what you do, why you're different, expiring value proposition at the end in the form of a discount.

23:43That's it. Right? Like Nick, you started a roofing company, right? What's up paradise Valley, Arizona. My name's Nick. I own Nick's roofing. Boom. Insert value proposition. We're the number one highly rated. It doesn't even have to be good. It's like, we're the top reviewed roofing here on Google. Here's a screenshot of our Google business page. All of these are verified reviews with photos. We hire a hundred percent background checked employees, blah, blah, blah, blah, insert background property and you know, whatever else. Now you've already in 30 seconds introduced, called out the location, who you are, what you do, why you're different.

24:15And then till the end of this month, the next 10 people that reach out to us will get a primary discount of so-and-so and so-and-so boom, click get quote now to get started. Boom, run it. And so then what you do is you just follow that framework and you film three or four like that and then let's go to facet three which is setup mark zuckerberg has said himself that the with the russia stuff and everything else that happened in 2020 the apple ios changes where you couldn't target so for example like do you watch alex armosi i've seen his stuff okay so like when they have gym launch they talk about like their entire business that they built to like you know 100 million dollars or whatever was largely like ad arbitrage.

24:56And back then you could target in 2020 when the agencies were having their heyday, you could target people by like in 2020, we were targeting conservative Christian right leaning entrepreneurs with our ads. You can't do that anymore. Yeah. The difference is Apple was allowing people to track across applications. Correct. And then they were selling that data to ad companies, specifically meta. I mean, meta would just freaking game to the crap out of it. And then they made the switch where they give people the option of whether or not they can track. And it kind of screwed meta for a minute until they figured out how to get back in the game.

25:28And so now what they do is it's all algorithmic. So targeting is dead. So when I talk about how we did, we sold a hundred something thousand dollars of jobs from Facebook alone last year, running my ads myself. My targeting is Scottsdale. Open targeting. That's it. It's just Scottsdale. there's no interest targeting there's no demographic targeting there's no income targeting it's just boom run it and then because now facebook's and meta's algorithm so this is facebook and instagram their algorithm finds the people for you based on who interacts with your creative and so when we talk about the creative why we do it in that structure is the only people that will be interacting with our creative at scale are people that are interested customers right?

26:14Interesting. Then we run lead forms. So we make people, we give a little bit of friction. So it's first name, last name, city you live in a few questions so that when that Facebook pixel, that algorithm does fire, it learns who to show the ads to. And then after a day or two, it's showing it to your primary demo. So there's the, there's the three things. Creative is effectively either the visual, the video, whatever it is that's selling to them. ad copy could be a part of that or is not a part of it it could be okay what's crazy to me is like you can go and look at every ad that's being run by certain companies on meta right now you can look at every single one of mine yeah oh that's my competitor i'm gonna go steal their stuff and it's just go copy it it's crazy to me it's part of facebook's terms of service if you want to play you got to play by that rule and so what's really funny is since i've started home service accelerator and I have like a shred of a personal brand, like a lot of Christmas light companies and permanent Christmas light companies follow me.

27:14And I will see my ads repurposed all over the country all the time. Like all the time. It's both flattering and irritating. Well, it's honestly not even irritating because like I just, if they were in my, even guys in my market do it. But like, I just know that their backend systems aren't going to be as good as ours. So you can copy me all day long, but my closers will be better. My process will be better. My cost per booked appointment will be better. My cost per given quote will be better. All of that will be better. So you can copy me all day long, but that's it. Okay. So backing up though, we're talking about agencies that home services companies can use when they're under a million dollars.

27:53They're outsourcing all of that, right? They're outsourcing the ad copy, the creative, and then the setup on the backend. Now you just explained all of that. And I'm sitting here like, oh crap, I could never get up to speed. Right. But you are very passionate that people who are that size of a company or smaller should do it themselves. So how do you balance it? I could say it all day long and just you could listen to me. Or I have 320 people that have joined Home Service Accelerator, which is the program where we do this and show people how to do it. We're like people call me like the Grim Reaper of ad agencies.

28:27Like it started with my own team doing it. Like we should. And then now it's like that's like my thing on Twitter. And so what's funny is the only agencies that get upset at that are bad agencies. Big agencies agree with me. Like every good agency agrees because the good agencies don't target small home service businesses because they know this. And so, yes, to answer your question. So what is it about the small companies, the small home services companies, when you say they can't afford it? It's the economics behind it, right? And so if you're going to meet these small businesses where they need to be price wise, you don't have enough infrastructure as an agency to service them the way that it would make sense.

29:05So if you go through the economics, right? Like if you're a small business, you want to spend 50 bucks a day on ads. Like if say, let's say peak season, like Christmas season, you're a small business, you want to hit a hundred grand and you're like, okay, I can spend 50 bucks a day on ads. This agency is coming in and being like, our retainers, the thousand bucks, our retainers, 1500 bucks. So if it's, let's just call it easy math. Let's see, let's say it's a cheap agency. So if it's a thousand dollar a month agency and you're there now, you're now paying them$33 and 33 cents a day to run your ads.

29:34No money is given to Facebook yet. So just to turn your ads on, you're giving them$33. And then you're actually putting in$50 a day in the ad algorithm. So you're spending$83 a day on your Facebook ads, but only 50 of it's going into meta buying eyeballs. And the other 33 is going to management. Whereas what we do is we say like, hey, my Husky who's sitting in the other room could beat the agencies if they were spending$50 a day and he was spending$83 a day with AI and a few little crappy creatives because by law of big numbers, like I'm spending way more than you over the course of a month. Are those agencies doing what you said earlier?

30:14Were you, because they're kind of two phases of it, right? Like generating the lead, they fill out the form, they see the ad copy, whatever. But then there's, you got to get them on the phone, you got to get them booked, you got to like close them on the sale. No, none of the agencies at this at this size will be setting appointments for you. And if they are, they're going to try to upsell you. And then it becomes even worse. Is that part of the problem where it's like, yeah, OK, even if you are going to spend and you have the money, quote unquote, where it makes sense for you to spend on a larger agency, you don't have the back end infrastructure necessarily figured out to even capitalize on the leads that are being generated.

30:49For sure. And so this is what we say a lot. Like I tell people like my system, like I'm like with my speed to lead, like the systems that I have set up, like when a Facebook lead comes in, like they're getting a call from us in under 60 seconds. And you're like, that's like, no, 100%. So I have a system where the second that client clicks submit on a Facebook ad, my sales guy's phone rings and says you have a new lead. Press one to get connected. He presses one. It instant connects him with that lead. Right. That's rad. And so if you look at the data, if you look at SaaS companies or any sort of service business, the data is crystal clear.