239 - How to Build Your Own Short Term Rental Empire with Taylor Jones

23:15Well, great. Now there's a ton of those in the marketplace. This is probably going to sound stupid, but let me restate what you're saying. I think a lot of people look at it like me, where they're like on Zillow and they're like, oh, I could get this two bedroom and it's 150 grand. And I think I can make that work. I could put some money into it. And they like, just look at the cost side of getting into that real estate. but what you're talking about is the cost is just one equation. You've got to understand what the demand is going to be for that so that you can model what the revenue piece is going to be.

23:43Otherwise you don't have a return. That's exactly right. This is simplified as two numbers. What do you buy it for and how much can you generate per night? There's a lot of deep analysis that goes into this, but in really everything boils down to what do you buy it for and how much revenue can you generate? And at the end of the day, you need a spread between those two numbers. If there's no spread, there's no cashflow. It's very simple. Okay. So is there a supply demand imbalance? How do you, how do you find the market in the first place? Like you said, Broken Bow, Oklahoma, like are there just markets that are known to be hot markets or would I just kind of look in my own geography?

24:18Where would I start? Without obviously the level of data access that we have. I think where I would start is, you know, look at where do you personally go? Like, I think, you know, unless you're just a complete outlier and you're like, hey, I'm a weirdo vacation guy, which like that could be true. Where do you travel? And you got to assume there's other people that do that, number one. Number two, there's a lot of just general theses. So let's just take things that have very sound investment thesis behind them. Hey, we want to invest near the national parks. Well, that's a pretty good thesis because last I checked, they're not closing Yosemite or the Grand Canyon anytime soon.

24:53Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but that's a pretty good bet I could make. So it's like, cool. Millions of people are visiting these national parks on an annual basis. There's going to be constant demand. So that's an entire investment thesis that happens. And a lot of people will buy around the country near national parks. Take another one is invest within a two hour drive of a major Metro. So think Atlanta, DC, Manhattan, Chicago, Austin, and go, okay, what are vacation towns within a two hour drive of these huge population hubs. Cause nobody's ever going to get tired of being stuck in their 400 square foot shoebox apartment in Manhattan and want to get away for the weekend.

25:29So why is it that the Poconos and the cat skills, which are both, you know, hour and a half, two hours away, why are those popular vacation destinations? Cause you got a trillion people in Manhattan who want to get away for the weekend. That's why. So it's just like, like, you're like, Oh yeah, duh. That makes a lot of sense. So sometimes you don't have to overcomplicate your investment thesis. And so those are like just two examples that people will kind of start with. Now, should you invest within two hours of Manhattan, two hours of Chicago, two hours of Atlanta, two hours from Austin, two hours from San Fran, LA, et cetera?

25:59Well, that depends. How familiar are you with it? Naturally, I'm a Florida boy. I know the Southeast. I travel to the Southeast. I kind of stayed there because it was familiar. If you live in Cali, you're probably like, dude, North Georgia, I couldn't put that on the map if I tried with some of these mountain towns. So I think you go to where your kind of creature comforts and then you ultimately got to start running math. So to your point, like, sure, you can have demand, but if prices are too high, it doesn't matter. There's no profit. So once you kind of narrow down your list of markets, you have to just start running numbers.

26:30What can I buy real estate for? What can I generate in projected revenue? And is there a spread between the two numbers? What are the metrics that you use to evaluate whether or not the spread's good? Yeah. So that's going to be tied to a couple of different factors. A, your debt and B, your operational infrastructure. So when interest rates were lower, you could get away with tighter spreads naturally. When interest rates are higher as they are today, you know, in the sixes and sevens, that spreads there. So we call it the price to rent ratio, which is just simply gross revenue divided by purchase price.

27:02So the spread today with rates in the sixes or sevens, you're going to need at least about a 15 % spread. So an example of that in big round numbers here is on a million dollar purchase price, you need at least 150 grand in revenue to have some spread, to have some cashflow. In gross margin, you mean? Just gross revenue. So 150 grand would be top line. And then after all expenses, you will have enough leftover to generate some cashflow. If you buy a million dollar Airbnb and you're only generating a hundred grand, so a 10 % ratio, a hundred grand divided by a million, I could tell you that if you back out all your expenses, mortgage, utilities, toilet paper, pool cleaning, landscaping, you will have zero dollars left over.

27:43In fact, you will owe money every month with that spread. It's too tight. Now, there's always outliers. That's the envelope math and it's envelope for a reason. So take a place like Texas, super high property taxes. Take a place like Florida, higher insurance. Take a place like North Carolina, cheap taxes, cheap insurance. So your spreads can be tighter when you have lower operating expenses and they have to be a little larger in places like Florida, Texas, California, high labor, et cetera. Just because again, those are fixed expenses that are going to hit you every month. Your tax bill, your insurance bill, the pool cleaning guy, you can't not pay.

28:19How do I, how do I estimate revenue? I just look at what's the average revenue around and then say, okay, 365 days, I'm going to estimate 50 % occupancy. Like what, which numbers do I use to plug in? Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. So that's where of those great resources, AirDNA and Rabu are going to come in handy. So what you can do is dive in there on market specific. So say you do want to dial into North Georgia. So you want to dial into, you know, the Catskills in upstate New York. And the way you can start doing is isolating bench room counts. You're like, Hey, you know what? I think I'm going to buy a three that, or I think I'm going to buy a four or Hey, I can only afford to buy a three or four.

28:52So that's the other thing. The data might say, dude, you should buy a five or a six. Well, if you don't have enough cash to buy a five or six, what's your next best alternative. And so once you understand what you can afford and what you're going to hone in on, then you got to look at, okay, well, what are all the other three beds around me generating? What amenities do they all have? What's their design style? What part of town are they located? Are they only on the north side? Are they spread out northeast, southwest and location doesn't really matter? So all of that's just diving into the data once you've kind of narrowed in that.

29:23And so that'll give you kind of that directionally correct data that you're looking for is, okay, all these three beds in this part of town are generating between 70 and 95 grand in revenue. Well, you can't underwrite and say, you know what? I'm going to do 120. I'm the new best guy. It's just unrealistic to assume. So you need to go and say, well, if I'm only generating 70 to 95 grand on this house, will I make money? And if the answer is no, then you probably can't buy a three bed in that market or a four bed or whatever that metric is because you won't make enough profit. So do you just estimate occupancy based like air DNA will give you all that stuff?

29:59Like every day is going to kind of give you an estimate of what the revenue is going to be. Yeah. You're going to see market level occupancies. And what I always say is our occupancy is only half the equation. So it is interesting because occupancy gets measured a lot in long-term rentals, in self storage and in everything else. But here I could get a hundred percent occupancy in my Airbnb. I'll go charge$10 a night. And guess what? I'll be booked every night of the year. Now I won't make money and that's a problem. And then the flip side is I could be very egotistical and say, you know what? I'm never letting anybody rent my place for under 300 a night.

30:32I'll probably only be 40 % occupied, but I've held high on my average daily rate. So average daily rate and occupancy is what makes up revenue. And so what you have to find is what's the best blend of the two of those together. Now, a market like Michigan or Wisconsin, you're not going to roll 70, 80 % occupants, even if you tried, because there's no, it's too seasonal. now in florida oh it makes sense you could run 100 occupancy but you would be leaving money on the table meaning you're filling your calendar for lower nightly rates than you should that sweet spot on like again very envelope math basis it is somewhere between 68 and 78 occupancy so if you can kind of float between that where you don't get too much lower and you don't get too much higher you're achieving maximum revenue so that's what i'm saying like you want to try to aim for the peak there where, you know, again, you're occupied, but you're also charging enough that you're like, Hey, this was worth it because you have to make the two work together.

31:31And if I go and do the math and I'm like, Oh, I could generate about$150 ,000 using that back of the envelope. I could also say like, all right, then that means my max property. The price that I could pay is about a million dollars. Like you're, you're kind of like backing into where you think you could invest. I mean, does that make sense? Exactly. And then what you'll draw is you'll draw your little filter there. So again, let's go back to that Catskills upstate New York. And you're like, okay, well, what's for sale for under a million in this region? And it might come back with zero results or it might come back with 500.

32:00You're like, sweet, I have options here. And that's how you start to learn. Is this market investable or not? And again, if you do that same example and you're like, okay, I did the math. I think realistically I can make 150 grand. So I need to buy something at or below a million and zero query results come back on Zillow or Redfin. Not your market. You're like, hey, I need to go to a different market. And so this becomes process of elimination and just ripping, you know, can it work? Yes. No. Cool. Go to the next one. And it's trial and error, trial and error until you find markets that work, markets that have consistent inventory and consistent revenue that you can make profit.

32:34I think one of the interesting things that I've seen is that like these short-term rentals got really big everywhere. It wasn't just coastal cities in California and Florida. Although it was like Michigan, all of a sudden people were buying. They're like, oh, I'm just going to short-term rental this thing out. and to your point it's like those have very different seasonal effects and then and then when more and more people start doing that eat the limited inventory that was there all of a sudden expands and you have a lot less occupancy that builds on top of it so i've seen people kind of get in trouble here locally trying to do the the str model i just think that's a really interesting perspective so how does taxes play into this because we talked about the revenue and the cost and all that other stuff but then like two taxes are amazing i know that that's why i'm interested in it.

33:18How does it work? Yeah. So easiest way I'll describe this. And again, not a CPA, but we'll pretend to be one on TV here for a little bit today is when you have taxes and depreciation, you have active income and you have passive income. And so active income is obvious. That's your, your W2, your 1099, you're working for it. If you passively invest in something, whether that be a business or another piece of real estate, you receive passive income, you know, that's obviously classified that way. So if you're trying to offset that income, you can only offset passive income with passive depreciation and you can only offset active income with what is considered active depreciation so you're like okay cool where do i find this active depreciation you know is it in the room with me right now is he here i did i did this i sold my businesses and i was like oh i'm gonna save on taxes i invested in some opportunity zones and some real estate and then the end of the year comes and they're like okay you owe uh you know whatever,$500 ,000 in taxes.

34:13And I was like, oh, cool. Well, I have$500 ,000 in passive losses. So just deduct it from those passive losses. And they're like, yeah, it doesn't work like that. And I was an idiot. I should have done some more research. So to your point, where are all these active losses happening? Yeah. So in the IRS, you have three really basic buckets. So you have oil and gas, which I am not a Texas or Oklahomian and can't help you there. So find someone who lives locally and could get you there. So there is oil and gas investments, which can give you that. There is equipment. So if you buy equipment, which falls under section 179 of the IRS code, that will also give you active losses.

34:50The fun one is the G wagon. So I'm sure during COVID and on Instagram, people said, oh, you buy a G wagon because the equipment from a vehicle perspective has to weigh over 6 ,000 pounds, a G wagon, a Chevy Tahoe, a cyber truck, a lot of strategic vehicles you saw that got purchased all qualify as that. So weird. Yeah. Really, really interesting. And then the third bucket is short-term rentals. So I know you joked and said, oh, a lot of people say this is a passive investment. Well, the IRS will tell you, no, no, no, this is an active investment. This is an active investment. That's interesting.

35:19And we will give you tax advantages to prove it because we will classify your tax losses as active losses. Is it because you're managing? Is that why it's active? So the key term is because, and again, the only way to unlock these, you can't just buy an Airbnb and you automatically get them. you have to earn them through what is called material participation, which is in short saying, hey, I am materially participating in the business activities of the short-term rental. There's seven different ways to qualify for material participation. So I don't know which one's the best path for you. You should consult your CPA, but it involves how much your output is in the business.

35:56You can't hire a property manager and do nothing and say, oh, I materially participated. That would kind of go against what the basic definition is. So if you achieve some of these achievable benchmarks, again, not super impossible, and you hit material participation, you could take those active losses to offset your active income. Now, let's put some real numbers behind it because that's where it gets fun. Again, I'm going to give you the envelope example here. Typically, your depreciation, now that we have the big, beautiful bill and 100 % bonus depreciation, so you get to unlock all of it in year one, you're getting roughly 25 % to 30 % of the purchase price in depreciation.

36:36So again, big round numbers, you buy a million dollar short-term rental Airbnb, you materially participate. You're going to order what's called a cost segregation study, which is where a fancy engineer is going to come in. They're going to assign values to every structure on the house. You don't have to do anything. And they're going to say, cool, Nick, here's how much depreciation you unlocked on this house. You give that - Because you can't depreciate the land, right? The land is undepreciable. Bingo. So when you buy that property for a million dollars, it's made up of two things, the land and the structure that sits on the land.

37:05So you can't deduct the land value. So if you invest in a high land value market, think South Beach, Miami, or Big Sur, California, those are going to get less depreciation dollar for dollar versus you buy an Airbnb in rural Vermont where the land is worth three nickels, you're going to get a lot of depreciation dollar for dollar. Okay. I mean, so what I tell people is, what are you investing for? If you're investing for long-term appreciation, yeah, Miami Beach is probably better than rural Vermont. It's probably a better bet. If you're maximizing for tax benefit, rural Vermont is way better than Miami because you're going to spend the same dollars to buy the house, down payment, furniture, et cetera.

37:44But how much depreciation? Now, again, you don't get zero. You just get significantly less because you can't take the land and depreciate the land. You can only depreciate the structure. So that's where that envelope math, again, could be a little bit more, could be a little bit less. But if I hang out in that 80-20 portion, 25 % to 30 % of the purchase price is what you're going to unlock. So your million dollar Airbnb gives you$250 ,000 to$300 ,000 of depreciation. Let's say you and your spouse together, you guys both make$400 ,000 of combined household income. All right? You take your$300 ,000 of losses.

38:16You slap that against your$400 ,000. grand, you're assuming no other write-offs that you and your spouse have. Your new taxable income is a hundred K. So you put 400 grand in your pocket. That went into the bank account. You earned that from working doctor, dentist, lawyer, W2 business owner, 1099, whatever you do, but you, your taxable income is now a hundred K in that example. There's a cap on the depreciation amount, right? Isn't it two and a half million dollars? Think with the big, beautiful bill went up to about 1.25. That might be single, not married, But yeah, it's very high north. But there's a cap of how much you can depreciate.

38:52Correct. Is the point. Okay. And it's not like the SBA, if I go get an SBA loan, 5 million is the limit. It doesn't matter how many businesses I buy, it's 5 million. But with this, that's on a per property basis. Like I could buy 10 properties and depreciate all 10 properties in a single year, theoretically. Assuming you have the liquid capital, absolutely. If you can afford to buy it, absolutely. You can order a cost segregation. You can materially participate. And then when you own multiple properties, again, not a CPA, but we'll talk like one on TV. There's a term called a group election where you can put them in a group election.

39:26And in essence, instead of having to put individual hours into each of them, you're putting in hours into quote unquote your business. So if you own two, three, five Airbnbs, now your material participation is an, oh, well, you need to hit a certain amount of activity on every individual, but more or less how much activity did you put in the total business? So it allows you to kind of, in essence, put in less hours versus if you had these as all individual entities. I don't know if you knew this. I just talked to Chris Berg, who was on my podcast and he does car washes. Car washes are also an investment that count as active investment.

40:00I didn't realize that. But as he was talking about it, he was like, dude, it's a flywheel. I have this services business that kicks off a bunch of cashflow. And then I just funnel that into the real estate, buy real estate. So I'm building equity in the real estate. And then I use the accelerated depreciation to offset my taxes. And that money that I saved on taxes, I just put back into the business to grow the business that generates more cashflow that I put into real estate. It just keeps kind of spinning like that. Have you found that as well? Yeah. So when you could take some of these awesome opportunities and we'll nerd out even more here, the best case scenario that you want to try to aim for is a one-to-one ratio.

40:38So let's just say I invest 200 grand into a short-term rental down payment, housing costs, furniture, amenities. Okay. If I can get 200 grand of depreciation, that would be, you know, considered a good, good investment. 60 to 70%. So you invest 200 grand, you get a buck 60 in depreciation. That's good. It's not an amazing deal. Anything North of one, you go get 1.25, one and a half or two to one on your money. It's absolutely insane. You need a lot to go for you. Like I said, cheap land value. Maybe there was already furniture in there. So you didn't have to spend that money. So your out of pocket is lower.

41:11These are all things that could be cheat codes. But if you go spend 200 grand to get your short-term rental and you get 200 grand of depreciation, so you maybe bought a six, six 50 purchase price. Let's just say you're in the blended 32 or 37 % bracket, you know, between state and federal, you're, you're talking about saving 70 ,000 plus dollars in real money. So forget your cashflow on the short-term rental. We talked about the cash flow I got on that very first North Georgia cabin. That was cash in, cash out. But we didn't even talk about the tax savings. So right now out of the get-go, I invest 200 grand into a short-term rental and I save 70 grand that I would have given to the US government.

41:49It's not optional, by the way. Last I checked, it is forced. So now I'm paying myself instead of paying the US government. I got a 30 % plus return on day one, even if the Airbnb breaks even. Now, obviously, the goal is to actually make money. go make one, two, three G's and free cashflow. But even if you didn't, I can tell you last I checked paying the U S government taxes, you get a guaranteed 0.0 % return. You will never see that money again. But if you buy an asset, you pay down principle, you hold it, it grows in value. So you can eke out any level of cashflow. You will get a return on that money to some level.

42:26If you buy these assets, right? If you buy real estate and you get these passive or active losses, whatever you want to call it. What if I get, I accumulate$300 ,000 of active losses, but I only make$150 ,000 a year. What happens to the$150 ,000 Delta? Does it go away? No, that's the best part. You can save it for a rainy day. You could roll it into future years. So that is the best part. So, you know, you see why 90 % plus of millionaires on real estate is they're in the depreciation accumulation business. So they have a very nice cash flowing service business, tech, hedge fund, equities that spits off a lot of cash and that creates tax liability.

43:09So how do you offset that? You offset that with buying real estate. It's not necessarily people don't really start buying real estate to get rich. That's not typically the route. You can do it a way quicker, way more efficient in service business, the S &B world, et cetera. But how do you keep more of what you make in those businesses is by buying real estate. And you can accelerate that tax savings by having active income. And that's where buying a short-term rental just becomes super lucrative to people. We're not CPAs, right? We're just playing one on TV. So I'm just going to brainstorm with you here.

43:39So if anybody's listening, that's our disclosure. Like, don't take what we say as financial advice. I have a house that we moved from that I didn't sell and we're renting it right now. And we just started renting it this year and we're managing it. that's going to be an active, I guess, whatever piece of real estate that we're managing. Could I depreciate that? Like, could I, or would I have to go like, does that count or no? So one of the caveats to material participation is you have to prove, you have to prove it is a short-term rental. And the definition according to the government is your average rental stay is seven nights or less.

44:13So if you are actively managing this and someone's in there for a six month or a 12 month term, the average on that will be significantly more than seven. So that would just be regular depreciation, which again, you can accumulate a lot of passive losses and save those for rainy days whenever you get more passive income, but it has to be a short-term rental. And so obviously proving that the proven, the caveat to, Hey, how do I prove this as a short-term rental? Well, was the average length of stay seven nights or less? Doesn't mean every stay just means the average of all stays. So you could have a 90 day stay, a 90 day booking, and they get a bunch of one night, two night, one night, two night, one night, two night, checks in Friday, check on Sunday.

44:49If the average is seven nights or less, it is classified as a short-term rental. Jeez. Okay. What are your favorite markets right now or favorite trends that you're seeing that you're like, Hey, we got maybe a year for somebody to exploit this and take advantage of it. Like I said, investing at the polls right now is super hot. One couple's getaways or cottages, You know, it is a very unique trend. You can provide things that a hotel just can't, whether that's hot tubs, saunas, romantic hammocks, you're by yourself versus, hey, it's 400 square foot and I share a wall with someone else a la hotel.

45:24So that is a strategic investment on one side of the pole. The other is four, five, six bedrooms that accommodate big groups that again, they're not going to go rent seven hotel rooms. And so you kind of get out of that two, three, four zone and you go to the poles. And right now what you're seeing is the outsized returns are living at the polls, the average group size on Airbnb. So the good news about them being a public company is they release their numbers. You start looking at the quarterly report. It's grown now for 10 straight quarters. How many people are in a booking? So they have all this data, obviously firsthand of, Hey, six people checked in here or nine people or 27 people.

46:02Average total number per booking has gone up for 10 straight quarters. So what does that tell you? The puck is growing to more and more people. They're saving money. You can split the costs amongst more heads in a large group travel. And it's cheaper than a hotel. They get that together experience. So the bigger upstream you swim, you're getting paid off for because the puck is going that direction. So what we're heavily doubling down on right now is bigger properties or again, go the complete opposite. Very customized romantic experiences for one bed couples. because again, no builder is building a 600 square foot, you know, little tree house, yurt, you know, cottage thing.

46:42They're not building those. So if you can get your hands on one or build one yourself, you've got a great opportunity to add nice little fire pit, nice little hammock, maybe the outdoor shower, all the little romantic things that you do. People are like, well, what's my alternative? My alternative is to pay$200 to go stay at a hotel with, you know, powder day continental breakfast and a carpet and share a wall, or I could pay a little extra. I could pay 300 a night and we got one acre by ourselves in the woods. It's an easy decision a hundred out of a hundred times. And that's the direction that honestly, like we're doubling down on right now is go super big or go super romantic and super small.

47:21Okay. Last thing for somebody who's just starting this journey, what's like the one piece of advice you would have known upfront? And it could be something we've already talked about, but like, what's, what do you think is the most important thing when trying to make money with short-term rentals that you would tell someone just starting out? Invest where it makes the most sense for where you are today, not necessarily for where you're at. If you have a large tax problem today, you're not necessarily trying to chase, oh, can this Airbnb make two, three grand a month? You're like, Hey, how do I not pay 80 ,000 in taxes.

47:54On the flip side, maybe you are miserable at your W-2. Maybe you want to retire your spouse and you're like, hey, sure, I'm going to get depreciation, but maybe I'm not as hyper-efficient, but how do I buy a glorified ATM machine that can spit out two, three, four Gs a month that I can stack one or two of those to retire my spouse or have her cut back? And so whatever your strategy is, you're going to definitely pick a different market based on whatever that thesis is. And I think people get too caught up in, they're like, well, yeah, I like my job. I just pay a lot of taxes. Well, you don't need to go chase the high cashflow, less tax efficient markets.

48:32Or on the flip side, it's the opposite. So to me, I say, solve what's in front of you today. Now, if sure, you don't want to pay taxes today and that's the first short term rental, that doesn't mean the second one's not allowed to be an ATM machine where you chase yield. But I think people get too caught up in, oh, well, if I'm going to buy two, three, four of these, they all have to be cashflow forward. They all have to be tax efficient. And I say, solve the problem that's in front of you today, because you and me and everybody else, we have a finite amount of liquid capital. So again, if I can only buy one for right now, now, if you're fortunate, you can buy two, that's great.

49:05But if you can only buy one, solve the problem that's in front of you today. And then a year or two years, wherever you're onto your next one, maybe you don't have a tax problem because you had another investment that love that or maybe you do want the wife to cut back at work because you're tired of her slaving. Solve that problem then. And you're allowed to buy two different properties in two different markets with two different strategies. That's okay. So it's a mistake I see people make is when they try to overthink this investment. I said, dude, like Nick, solve the problem that's in front of you today.

49:33Do you have a tax problem? Let's solve that efficiently. If you're miserable at work and you want to quit or the spouse or whatever, like let's go try to find an ATM machine that could spit out cash for you. Is that why you started your second business, right? Because you raise money, you own these Airbnbs, and then you started SDR search. Is it because there are people like me who are like excited at the prospect of real estate and short-term rentals, but then get quickly overwhelmed with like, oh my gosh, that's too much data and research that I have to go and do. So just take my money, Taylor, just tell me where to go invest.

50:01Is that like kind of the thesis behind your new business? Yeah, that's really what we started SDR search for was, hey man, we have four full-time data analysts. We've studied 359 markets. We look at 300 Airbnbs, a day, every day, all day, like you don't have to guess where is a good market. You don't have to guess where the most appreciation is. You don't have to guess. We can just present data. And so we'll come in and we'll be the data guys in the background, but you know, ultimately it's your car, you're driving, you know, it's your house, your money, you get all the upside. I'm just going to make sure you don't crash the car or hit the curb by trying to do this yourself.

50:38Because unlike equities, it's not, oh, I bought Apple stock. It went down. I sold it. I lost 50 bucks. Like you buy and sell real estate, you could lose 25, 50, a hundred grand by making a bad decision. That's what we want to avoid with clients is, Hey, why don't we make a high ROI decision? Because this is, this is where the real tax problem gets people in trouble. It's like, ah, cool. I bought an Airbnb and I saved 50 grand in taxes. But if the house loses 25 grand a year in free cashflow, that net savings, you're upside down in three years now. So now your tax benefit's gone because the house itself can't sustain it.

51:14And that's where we say is, hey, yeah, let's get the tax benefit, but let's also make sure there's enough cash flow on the back end that this is a good long-term hold for you and your family. I see a lot of people who are trying to over-optimize tax so hard that they end up screwing themselves on a real business or short-term decision. Optimizing for taxes is important, but that shouldn't be your sole focus. I totally agree with that. Well, cool, man. Where's the best place for people to come find you? is that strsearch.com yeah kind of search calendaries right there grab time happy to talk about your individual situation and you know we'll show you what we could do and if there's help needed great if not man like we're just a bunch of data nerds and we can dump a bunch of short-term rental air baby data on you and we we love this shit because it's all day every day man i love it i love it all right man we'll talk soon all right hopefully you like that episode and if you've made it this far you're either really committed or you're stuck doing yard work and you can't actually skip on your phone.

52:07So while I have you, the show is growing, but I have a favor to ask of you. Will you please help me grow the show? I want to reach more people. There's a couple of things that you can do. Like, and subscribe is the simplest thing. Obviously you want to get notifications for when the next episode is coming out, but if you go the next step, will you leave me a review five-star on Spotify or Apple? What that does is it tells the algorithm that, Oh, Hey, this is a high value podcast because more people are leaving reviews for it and it then pushes it out to more people. So that's why when people are like, will you log and subscribe and put the five-star rating?

52:41It's not just to make themselves feel better. It's actually to get more exposure for the show. So if you do that for me, I would greatly appreciate it. And I'll see you next time.