Davina McCall on her HUGE Big Brother SACRIFICE

0:00When you want your spring break to feel like... And your kid's pool day to feel like... And your hotel bed to feel like... Ooh, and room service to feel like... Because at Hilton, hospitality feels like... Your cabana's ready. Would you like fresh towels? It matters where you stay. Book now at Hilton.com. Hilton. For this day. Coming up, I remember pushing and smiling. And my husband actually said to me, you look like Tim, nice but dim. I turned up to the hospital in my maxi dress and a Victoria's Secret thong. And I remember the midwife was like, where the hell do you think you're going? Davina McCall is with us today.

0:48I believe it, she's here. Davina, Davina. We've just had a chat for five minutes.

0:53Davina McCall:She's got a mouth like a toilet this time. Yeah, yeah, honestly. I only had the babies in September, so no one else presented Big Brother. Really?

1:08Here we are. We're back. We're back. I'm loving your shoes, by the way. Thank you. I'm loving your shoes. Where did you get yours from? Mine are from a charity shop. Eight quid. Love that. Absolute bar. They are bargain. If you can't see these, you need to check it out on YouTube. But you need to look at Hannah's shoes right now. Quite sexy. You're dressing up for me, Hannah. Oh, dressing up for you, man. Ready for a card. thank you indeed you can tell i'm not with my kids yes i think we definitely do you know what i was always i always think i love coming it's almost a bit like therapy yeah in a way yeah sit down we've got the chairs having a nice chat no interruptions hot drink yeah we have a hot drink don't we yeah and eat something yes like a meal it's like a spa slash therapy yeah and uh at the weekend um i had uh we drove to cornwall me and my best mate oh did you and she got in the car and straight away we were like both ranting about husbands kids yeah and for a good you know good hour of the journey and then afterwards you're like oh I really needed that and then we're like god it really does mean a lot to just sit and talk and rant and it's also to listen to somebody else and be like oh god yeah like genuinely if I wasn't coming here to film this I I have this competition with myself how long can I not wash my hair now it's not an intentional thing but I use dry shampoo every day oh and when I'm at home I try and style it so it looks like it was an intentional ponytail but it needs to be like because it's like grease by Friday it's like I look like I've put talcum powder all over my head um that kind of look but um it's just listening to other people that's like yeah that's completely normal that is that is what happens and you just sometimes need to get it off your chest me and my friend we have this thing I don't know if you've heard it's called boxer it's essentially like a whatsapp audio message and you press a button and you just talk for 15 minutes and then it cuts you off but 15 minutes is never long enough what to a person no into an app we just talk into it like a but like a 15 minute one but we will send each other half an hour are you telling me that you have no podcast without me yeah you're getting And if I say something, go, oh, I'm sick of this today, sick of that.

3:20And she'll go, listen, I think you've blown that way out of proportion. Yeah. I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah, yes. I was just tired and overstimulated. I did that this morning. We had our meet the teachers morning. Oh, did you? Where the whole class meets the teachers. And as we were leaving the house, my husband's with me. And I just... Eczema is unpredictable. But you can flare less with EPCLISP. A once-monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four-month or longer dosing phase, about four in ten people taking EMPGLYS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks.

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4:24Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EBCLIS. Before starting EBCLIS, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Ask your doctor about EBCLIS and visit EBCLIS.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. I just had a go at him for the way that he parked the car. Which, to be honest, was fine. But I was just in one of those moods of just like, ugh. And I told one of the mums at the school gate, I was like, I've just given Jesse a right go at how he's parked the car. And she just laughed and she was like, I've just done the same.

5:00I do think a lot of it, though, is I am perimenopausal. I've definitely got the rage happening. And what happens in the perimenopausal state? How has it affected you? Oh, I'm angry. Like all the time? Not all the time, but I get like the patience is less. So then my anger levels have gone up, but I'm also forgetful. So it's like this, I feel like I'm constantly battling with myself. And I did say to my husband, I was like, just say no. I am going through these changes, so I might be slightly more erratic. And he was like, oh, that's great. Thanks. I kind of send him like videos I've seen on Instagram.

5:39like I just like so this is what you should expect from a woman my age but he'll never watch no no no but um he's like when you have a baby isn't it you know when you send your partner videos of like um somebody in America being like you should really take care of your wife and make sure she's birthed a human and she's okay forward yeah make her a nice food and chocolate yeah no absolutely right I'm probably not gonna watch any of these I don't even think he listens to this podcast. No, my husband said, this is the ideal thing for you, Hannah, slagging me and our kids off, having a laugh. And he's like, and then I don't need to deal with it.

6:18Yeah. And have you got your parenting fail for this week? Yeah, I do. And I should have known better really. And this one is, is actually my fault. Usually my parenting fails. I'm like, it's not my fault, but I do think that is my fault. It's my son's birthday next week. And so I'm buying birthday presents and because this week I'm literally in London every day which is typical so my time to actually go out and buy presents is is limited so I've done a lot of Amazon shopping and at home we have an Alexa but we have one of those ones with a big screen so I can like watch a bit of telly if I'm cooking or something in the kitchen and so on this screen this morning it popped up basically saying today you have a delivery and it basically rolled out all of my son's birthday presents and my son was there going mommy is this for me oh no so yeah my son knows all of the birthday presents that he's getting and alexa didn't start no the silly bitch she just kept going and i'm like i'm like is there not a way to stop that from happening so i'm not really good friends with alexa so maybe i'll just unplug her i don't know what about you how what how any parenting fails So this is one of those where I think, should I say this or not?

7:33Oh, I'm settling in. I'm excited. So settle in. Right. We had Anna on the show. She was fantastic. Incredible. She was talking to us, life advice. And she said, you should date your husband. And I thought, do you know what? I've maybe neglected Andy since he had his organ out at the start of the summer. His appendix ruptured. I've been a bit resentful because I've had to parent a bit more. Life's been tough. The kids are now back at school. And I thought, do you know what? I think the ovulation horn might be kicking in I don't know but Saturday night I was like we're gonna have a date night hun so I said we're gonna get some because we've got like loads of this champagne from previous birthdays I was like we're gonna get a takeaway we're gonna have some champagne we'll have a great time um we had a great evening and I woke up the next morning and I was like I don't know if I should even say I don't know if I can say I was like we got a bit drunk and I was like did you pull out and he was like I'm not sure so oh my god half past 11 on Sunday morning I had three children with me in a side room at the pharmacy in town I had to write on my phone to the pharmacist excuse me I need the morning after pill oh my gosh and I am extremely embarrassed by my actions and then he said so when was the last what time did you have sex and I was like um it was about quarter to 12 last night when the savvy bee kicked in um and so he was like okay

9:03we've got a superstar guest for you today from big brother legend to the masked singer judge fitness guru and best-selling author powerhouse davina mccall is with us today I can't believe it. She's here. I'm absolutely honoured you're in our studio.

9:21Davina McCall:I am honestly so excited as well. I've been so looking forward to this. I think we are going to have the best time ever. We are. Ever. We are. So tell us everything. First of all, mother of three, what kind of mum would you say that you are? I would say, I had a girlfriend of mine who had four girls and they were all beautiful girls. And when my kids were born, they were kind of two or three years ahead of me. And I called her when I was pregnant and I said, what do I need to do? Give me the list. She said, it's only two things. And I was like, what? Can't be that easy. She went, no, literally two things.

10:00I was like, give me, give me.

10:02Davina McCall:She went, love. I was like, oh, of course, yeah. And she said, boundaries. And actually, that was the greatest piece of parenting advice I've ever been given. Yeah, I think you just nailed it. Because love and boundaries. Yeah. Like I love them unconditionally. Like whatever they want to come and say to me, I will always love them. Nothing they could say to me will stop me from loving them. So that's that. And how old are they? Your kids are. Well, they are all. I don't know if you know this, but I only ever got pregnant during September. Because that was no. So that I had the babies in September.

10:38Davina McCall:So you had a good Christmas. You had a good Christmas. No. So no one else presented Big Brother. Oh, wow. So you could actually plan it like that. Yeah. That's very good. It's very lucky. I mean, me and my ex-advert, we might not still be together, but we did do babies well. That's brilliant. I mean, biologically, we were meant to make babies. Yes. And we came out with three amazing kids. Oh, that's lovely. I remember, I have a memory of you. I think it's one of the first times I saw you on TV. And you were on Big Brother and you had that t-shirt saying Big Mother. you framed is it I'm going to send you guys pictures of it later I've got it and I've got Big Mother Reloaded because that was the year The Matrix Reloaded came out that was Tilly and then Big Mother the trilogy for Chester wow that's brilliant so all your kids are September yeah so September so he's about to turn 19 wow Tilly's about to turn 22 and Holly's about to turn 24 wow that is commitment to your career because that was like you were big brother like everybody remembers watching you and like that's commitments just what a show it was when you could watch it live during the day in the summer holidays me my brother used to say we'd say this is me brother please do not swear yes do you know what's awful i actually when i'm not on telly i swear quite a lot i mean you've heard i mean we've just had a chat for five minutes she's got a mouth like it's like this yeah yeah honestly you know what was interesting i quickly want to tell you about because I had my first baby on series two yeah so when Brian Dowling won about three weeks after Brian Dowling winning I gave birth to Holly wow and what was interesting was um I was very ambitious and not embarrassed about it I mean I think there's a terrible thing where it's all right for a man to be ambitious but it's sort of uncouth for a woman to want to do well in her career.

12:34Davina McCall:I really loved what I did for a job. And it's not step on someone else's head to get to where you want to get to. But it was like, I will take that extra job in the middle of the night, or I will sleep under the desk in the office so that I can be here in the morning. You know, I would go the extra mile because I loved being in telly. Yeah, and that's why you are who you are. I gave birth to Holly and I looked at her and I was like, I never want to work again. I want to knit everything and bake everything from scratch. Yes, and I want to breastfeed you for 20 years. No, but it was like, what's happened to me?

13:23It's overwhelming. and there is that sense that you find I guess you just did because you just said it like when you became a mother because I was a bit like that I was like no a baby's not going to change me yeah they'll fit into our routine yeah I was exactly like that again it goes back to that love that unconditional love that you can't really describe sometimes it's just it's just magic it's there and that funny thing where you think with the second pregnancy I haven't got any more

13:50Davina McCall:love yeah i can't i can't make any more like an anxiety how am i gonna love this one and then it doubles yeah yeah and then you have your third one you're like oh for f***ing sake what do we do here oh you just swore does that mean i can we can swear you can can we yeah we've got a great editor who beats everything out okay okay let it all out it's a safe space okay great we're parents i mean swearing just comes with the job yeah especially when we're talking about the child number one and we're like oh and then child number two and then the third and we're like yeah so obviously we've all got three so how were your labors how would you describe the birth process for you I think one of the the the reasons why I wanted to write the book was because I loved giving birth and I so rarely ever heard that from anybody yeah that I thought I need to find a way where I can in some way empower women to get the birth that they want.

14:52Davina McCall:Yes. I loved giving birth because I ended up having three births that I wanted, all very different, but I somehow felt a bit in control. I think sometimes you can feel like a bit of your control has been taken away from you at the time of giving birth. And that ends up transmitting to you a feeling of kind of dis-ease like oh I don't know like yeah you have to feel safe when you're giving birth absolutely and instinctively I think all women want to go into the darkest quietest room in a quiet corner if you were in nature you would go and find a hole or a cubby hole or a space under a tree or somewhere protected yeah you know it's it's an instinct to be and that's because it's safe absolutely I mean you're animals at the end of the day you wouldn't see a cat you know give birth under lights with like loads of people watching them but but and actually this is this is Davina McCall's new book birthing and um this is the book I've had I've had a look through and it's absolutely brilliant it's the kind of book that I wish that was around when I was pregnant because I did find that when I uh announced I was pregnant the amount of people that wanted to tell me like horror stories what what is the time yes and I was tell them tell us the horror stories because we've done our children yeah but not someone who's new.

16:12You're the pregnant lady. And I wanted a home birth. I just knew that I wanted a home birth. I think because I had a fear of hospitals. And the amount of people that wanted to tell me like horrific stories. And I was trying to find a book that was nice and positive. I ended up reading books for midwives to learn about my body. Was it called Spiritual Medwifery? Yes. By Inna May. Inna May Gaskin. Yes. I've met her. She's got shivers. I think my nipples just went hard. I love her. I love her. Oh my gosh. So I read all of her books and to cut my own story. Wait, wait, can I just, can I just quote you something?

16:48Yes. I loved it when she said, keep your sense of humour while you're in labour. Keep your sense of humour, which will keep you where it's at. Yes. If you can't be a hero, at least you can be funny whilst being a chicken. That's what she said. I remember pushing. I should have read this book. I remember pushing and smiling. Yeah. And my husband actually said to me, Louise, you look like, literally, word for word you look like Tim nice but dim from Harry Enfield who's like I was like oh I would

17:14Davina McCall:also like to point out that it's very much like um I have no judgment about how you want to give birth either I've got a friend of mine who loved also loved giving birth and she was in a hospital on her back with a great epidural watching telly with someone telling her when to push and she gave birth and she didn't feel it at all and she loved it and I was like so happy for her because she got the birth she wanted. If you want to have an elective cesarean because you've had a very traumatic time or, you know, like I don't really like hospitals either. That's why I had a home birth. But if you don't like hospitals or whatever, you know, have an elective cesarean.

17:56Davina McCall:Like I want you to know everything you need to know to go through all of those eventualities armed. And it takes that fear away. I remember when I turned up to give birth to my second and I'd had my first and it wasn't the best experience. I had my waters broke, which I thought was my waters. It was a little bit of incontinence. Like we're talking a trickle and that, you know, you message everyone on the WhatsApp. Oh, bloodsy hell, the baby's coming out imminently. It's coming. It's coming. And then the next thing you go to hospital and they're like, yeah, I think you just may be a bit overexcited.

18:29It's just a little bit of wee. I don't think that was your waters, but they couldn't take the risk. So then I had to get induced and that process was just not great. So then my second labor, I was like, I'm going to own this. I was in agony at home. I turned up to the hospital in my maxi dress and a Victoria's Secret thong. And I remember the midwife, Nina, was like, where the hell do you think you're going? She was like, get that thong off, get that maxi dress off and get on the bed, love. But she was so, she was absolutely amazing. But I don't know why I thought this birth is going to be totally different to my last.

19:01So I wore a thong and I was nine centimeters dilated when I turned up and his head was literally about to hang out. Oh, my God. I love that. Amazing silk thong. But my husband was just like, today's not the day. Can I just say something? Yeah. I am so proud of you. Thank you. Can I just say boss undies to hospital? I don't know anyone that wore a thong. Well, I just think it's like, it's funny. It's like, do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to work you must have consciously I think in my head I was like no and then when you know when you get to that point where you're like it's I'm like fully dilated now it's I don't want to do it anymore I'm gonna get I'm gonna get an uber I'm done I don't want to do it I don't want it to come out it's gonna hurt I know it is I can feel it like my gammon hangers are all over the place I'm done I'm getting an uber and then the midwife's like you're not get back on that bed Hannah midwife Nina I like it I always like it when you transition yeah from laboring to pushing

19:59Davina McCall:and the cry. I remember with my third one with Chester, Holly was five at that point. And I told both the girls that they didn't have to go to school because it was just such, it was an exciting day and they were going to meet their sibling that day. So I was like, you can stay. So Holly comes into the room where the bath is, the birthing pool, and she's got her school uniform on. and then within five minutes she's taken her dress off and she's in her vest and pants she's like helping me she's tucking my hair behind my ear and then the next photograph is of her in her pants um handing me a tissue and I'm crying you know because I'm transitioning and I'm thinking and I look at her and I go Holly I I think I know what's happening here you've seen mummy in a pool and you want to get in oh but I'm just saying by pain of death are there any sinkers in there Do not get in there.

20:56We've got the sieve on hand, but you just... Can you imagine the trauma of being a small child and seeing your mum's poo floating around it in your back? A rabbit's been in this... That's what I didn't know, because I gave birth in a pool, and I remember saying to my husband, I was like, babe, can you just stop farting for crying out loud? It was like, babe, you've got s*** everywhere in this pool. And there he was, like, fishing it out. And I didn't realise, he didn't even tell me. I didn't realize until afterwards.

21:24Davina McCall:Midwives are amazing though. Are they not the most? Amazing. It literally, on the first time I gave birth, I couldn't give birth in the water because it was slowing me down. So they made me get out of the water, walk up and down stairs a bit, get the baby kind of moving down the birth canal properly. And then I wanted to go into the darkest, smallest, safest room. Yeah. And I got into the squatting position. and after a few after a while the midwife said to me you're not you're not letting go she said Davina what is it and I said I'm really frightened of pooing and she said if you do poo I will be so proud of you because it will tell me that you are doing the right thing the right kind of pushes movement yeah so you just do that and you will never see the poo ever and she was like divina did you have a curry last night because if you did we're opening the windows i will spirit it away and she did did she like apparently there was something and i never saw it and i felt confident and i thought she wants me to like push in that way don't feel frightened and it is amazing how midwives can help you keep your dignity and when you just met them as well and they just know like for them to say like when people go oh I don't want to poo and a lot of people get anxious about it's like most of it like you need to clear everything it's like a colonic and you're getting a watermelon out of a pee hole yeah it's good like everything's going to come out but people are like oh my throat I'm really sorry about that I thought you were gagging and thought of us all dropping our guts in the hospital bed.

23:06Yeah, but you're right. But it's the way they make you feel like everybody does it. It's okay. And in that moment, I mean, you don't really care anyway. You just want to get the baby out, don't you? Yeah. So your children who are now in their 20s, you know, if they want children later in life, they're going, right, I know exactly where to go. Got this book. As well as so many, I mean, honestly, I really wish this book had been around when I was... Do you know what's funny is that Holly, my daughter,

23:28Davina McCall:who I think she will have kids, but she's really nervous about it and I wonder whether her being I think them being there when I was having Chester because I said mummy's just going to do some mooing now but they said the mooing was very loud you know when you're in it you're doing it you don't know you can't really hear what you're doing or saying no you know so when you go into the labour ward when you're like you're just going into labour and you may be five centimetres dilated you get onto the ward and all you can hear is like from the other women and you're like oh my god is she okay and it's like that's going to be me in a few hours and it's moving and I guess for a kid yeah it's quite intense that isn't it yeah I guess it would be yeah how would you say then from your upbringing to how you are as a parent if you're you know your kids have referenced about when they saw you in labor how would you say your childhood affected the type of parent that you are I had like um um a quite a disjointed childhood so I was I was born my mum had preeclampsia so my granny had um my granny saved my life and she said to my mum I don't think you're well um I'm going to take you to hospital right now and she had an emergency cesarean there and then and I was a month premature so my mum um had already had a child she got pregnant at 15 so she had my sister six years earlier.

24:58Davina McCall:And she was so young. She was 21 when she had me. And she was kind of the OG wild child, unbearably gorgeous, wild, hadn't been brilliantly parented herself, had been given money really, but no parental love or guidance. And so just didn't have the tools to do it. I understand all of that a lot better now I'm a bit older at the time I found it a bit confusing but when I was um three or four my mum and dad split up and my mum took me to my granny's my dad's mum Pippi legend and my mum said I'm I'm gonna go on a ski holiday and I'll come back and get you in a couple of weeks but you know in the olden days you probably won't remember this I'm a lot older than you two, but in the olden days, it used to be thought that kids would just forget.

25:56Davina McCall:Yes. They'll just forget. But I was waiting for her to come back, and I didn't forget, and she didn't come back. Now, I'm not trying to paint. I'm not a victim, and I'm not. But it set me up on a people-might-not-show-up kind of trajectory. So your barrier was up, would you say? So, well, no, I just didn't feel safe. Right. We were talking about that earlier, right, about feeling safe and how important it is for kids. Yeah. Boundaries make you feel safe. And when somebody stands by the boundary, if you do that again, we are not going to the family party that we've all been looking forward to for three months and they do it again, then we did not go to the family party that we'd all been looking forward to.

26:44Davina McCall:As much as I wanted to go and I thought to myself, I must not make a boundary like that again why did I not do her or you can't have sticky toffee pudding after dinner like what a stupid boundary but I would have to stick to it yeah because I knew it made them feel safe she does what she says she's gonna do yeah absolutely so that you know me not feeling safe in my childhood knew that I wanted my kids to feel safe in their space and nurtured and loved that's good um I remember I um on the first day of nursery the first day of term for nursery started at midday I finished at midday but the first term of nursery for newbies would finish at 11s and I forgot and I turned up at midday and they'd gone and everybody'd gone and a friend of mine had picked up I think it was Tilly and taken her back to her house was very triggering for me.

27:44Davina McCall:So I used to get forgotten at the airport. When I went to visit my mum, she wouldn't be there. This sounds like a very high class problem, but I got forgotten at ski school. I was constantly being taken back. I went skiing when I was a little girl with my mum, constantly getting taken back to the ski instructor's house. Again, not a sob story, but what it meant was when I was late for Tilly once, I was catatonic. I mean, I've never cried so hard I was driving over to my friend's house I was like oh my god that's such a bad boat I turned up and she's having a lovely time playing with her friend in the garden and my friend was so good with me she talked me down she said this is normal yeah because it was it's triggered you in some way but what you've done today is completely normal parenting i.e you made a mistake yeah yeah And so now what she taught me then, I mean, I've learned, I have learned the best life lessons from being a parent and from my children, right?

28:49Davina McCall:I guess you have too. Yeah. But what she, sorry. No, I was going to ask you about how you parent now, like now that your children are in their 20s. What I love about that moment was she taught me that it was all right to say, I'm really sorry. I made a mistake. Yeah. But because my children felt safe, they accepted that. I knew that it wasn't going to be every single time. And they went, oh, that's fine. Don't worry. There's no resentment there, is there? And then what they started doing and what they still do now is say to me, I'm sorry, mum. I made a mistake. And I'll go, it's fine. Don't worry.

29:26Davina McCall:We all do. And that's one of my most favourite things. And that came from something that happened with my mum that taught me a brilliant lesson. you know what I mean in the long run yes that's a lovely way so nothing is bad nothing no calamity that you have in your life is bad if you learn something from it let there be learning absolutely because we all forget stuff and make mistakes especially as a parent you've got a million things well I mean this whole podcast is about parenting literally this is what we talk about but actually we all do learn from it I've learned something today which I will talk about my parenting fails at some point but I have learned I've learned something I feel like I'm learning all the time all the time and everything every day is different where you think oh I wouldn't have expected that like I'm always surprised but in a positive like it is for me like I just think it's a biggest privilege to a have kids I know we kind of take the piss out don't we it's like oh it's tough it is tough but it's it is the most amazing thing that I'm so grateful for I've had five pregnancies and I've got three children so I am so grateful for the three of them but at the same time every day I'm like okay right this is a new normal today is a new normal next month and next year they are forever growing but then so are we yeah so it's like the person that I was before I had kids I'm like I'm worlds away from that person but I wouldn't change it no but I've made mistakes along the way as a parent I know that but like you say own it it's okay what I love is that I am ahead of you right yeah and my youngest is turning 19 on Saturday yeah and I I was I was in full parenting mode and I loved being a parent and now I'm in like oh like what what do I do now so this summer after my operation last year I was like okay right that's it what am I doing I went to Glastonbury yeah and I went to Burning Man did you oh my gosh it was actually quite hard for any marriage did you go with your kids no no no would you have gone with them though yeah I don't I don't think they'd I don't think they'd want to go with me I mean what's interesting is I don't want to be my kid's best friend oh I want to be my kid's parent yeah again it's boundaries isn't it like I want I don't want to hang out with them and for them to get horribly drunk and then feel like really embarrassed.

31:56Davina McCall:Yeah, yeah. I just, I'd like to, I feel like I'm very, very close and they can tell me anything. But I think being your kid's best friend is quite a grey area for a kid because they need a parent still. I needed a parent until my dad died three years ago. Like I needed him to still be a dad. so I wouldn't you know I did go out clubbing with my dad and I've been at clubbing with my kids but I still feel like I want to be a responsible parent for them of course and what type of parent would you how would you describe yourself as a parent and do you still have parenting fails yeah you know that your kids are a little bit older oh all I mean I'm always learning what to do and what not to do um I think um the a massive one that Michael's helped me with a lot Michael's my partner just for anybody listening or watching that doesn't doesn't know and a brilliant hairdresser um and I was struggling with the kind of teenage leaving home aspect and I was trying to give my opinion still and actually from when they're about teenagers you know it's funny with the third because the third gets all the learning that you've got from the first and the second so the third's just acing like life because me you know me and Michael Chester's the youngest and me and Michael have had two before and he's the one that's getting all the kind of wisdom from all the fails and um so I I was always kind of getting in there do you know what I think you should do or you know this might help or why don't you try that and one day Michael said you know what's quite helpful sometimes he's really good at the way he says it to me as well it's not like you should do this or use it he says what I quite often do is I'll ask them what they think they should do and it was like a light bulb went off in my head yeah and I thought why am I even telling the much better way to start critically thinking yeah as a child yeah yeah is to start thinking oh what would i do instead of wading in with your what do i know about life yeah like if you say to your partner what can i do for you yeah that would help you rather than going rubbing back and you're like get off my back yeah yeah do you know actually with my third i I don't know what you guys were like, but with, I think with my first, my husband was a bit like, this is all new.

34:37And he was trying to fill up the birthing pool and the water wasn't the right temperature and it was a bit chaotic and it was all really quick. Scooping up your shits out of the pubs and everything. Little fishnet progressed to a bag for life. And so he wasn't, and he kept running. I was throwing up and anyway, so he was a bit here, there and everywhere. And I wanted him to kind of say these positive affirmations to me. And he did kind of like rub my back and he was like whispering it to me. And I was like, you're not saying it loud enough. I can't hear you. I'm mooing. And then with the second one, I ended up in hospital with a hemorrhage.

35:03And then with my third, I just thought I need to take control of this. So I did, I really practiced hypnobirthing, which I think is extremely powerful. And I, bless him, I actually kind of like blocked him out and I had my headphones in and I was listening to all these positive affirmations and smiling and mooing and had the most gorgeous birth and it was lovely. But I think it's really important to say to your partner this might happen and because you know do will men read these books like do we is it just is this really just for mums to read future mums or are we trying to give it to men as