Ollie Locke on premature twins & his biggest parenting fails

0:00Sierra has all the best active and outdoor brands for the super athletic stuff, like running gear for cruising up the trail. Woo! And the super athletic-ish stuff, like fishing gear for chilling by the creek. Nice cast. Fitness apparel to push for higher reps. You got this! And golf balls priced so you can afford to lose one. Or a few. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. Coming up. We've been friends for two years and I know your birth story. I know how many stitches you had after labour. But I didn't know your name.

0:38She's like, oh my God, I knew it. My husband was like, what made you do that? Why would you ever think that's okay? But he was like, mummy told me to. And I was like, I think there's been a bit of miscommunication. Yes. So my son will literally like press the button and go, mum. And I look and he goes like, ding. We have the brilliant Ollie Locke joining us today. Our first dad's on the show. Turns out I absolutely used this at girls' photos. Oh! For him, it's fine. I can make him look like a Ralph model and that's fine. They had to be flown down by an ambulance jet. They started off in a private jet.

1:11They've been business. Now they're in economy. That's why they're crying. Oh my God.

1:22Hello, welcome back to No Parental Guidance. Your safe space for all the parents out there that feel like they're failing. or just wigging it in life i mean i do that all the time i mean i feel like we're all wigging it in life every day i have to i mean that's the only way to actually what parenting isn't it we're all wigging it so we are right in the thick of summer holidays how's it been for you any any parenting fails this week um i had a bit of an incident where i don't condone violence but a little boy was mean to my little boy my little boy's six and this boy was eight oh no and he wasn't very nice to him so I said listen that is not okay like you don't it's not okay for somebody to be nasty to you be horrible and say something about his physical feature that's not very nice so I got the heavies in I got my oldest son and I said listen they look like the Mitchell brothers from EastEnders and I was like listen you know Bradley you shouldn't let anybody somebody your age speak to your little brother like that it's not okay and I was like if he does it again you know just little little shove shove back don't do it again and he'll leave you alone then if he comes at you you know they do karate so so basically my eldest son had a fight and then my husband was like what made you do that why would you ever think that's okay but he was like mommy told me to and I was like oh I think there's been a bit of miscommunication yes I didn't mean like get him in a headlock on a concrete floor I didn't mean that um did he get that no it wasn't that extreme but it was I got a call did you get a call from the mum no I didn't okay well that's all right then that's all right that's good but I would just be like listen your son wasn't mean to my and then I'm like I'm nearly 40 like I can't say that to an adult like your son was mean to my son so I'll meet you in the circle at playground yeah I have done that though I have I have texted mum saying um there seems to be a disagreement between our children and you know my son came home crying and this mum's like well my son said it was your son like oh god this is awkward I was like let's just have a play date let's have some wine and we'll just talk it through and um you know that never happened i was gonna say we don't have play dates anymore and do you see her at school like do you speak to each other no it's just casual kind of like acknowledge each other and just agree to disagree that we are probably kids should stay apart from each other but you probably slag each other off behind each other's backs i would never talk about her on a podcast no but seriously we don't like it seriously no but there's always those um parents that you have these incidents with and it might be in year one but you don't you don't gravitate naturally towards them then it comes like year I don't know year five year six year so do you ever kind of chat or is it does it like you know it's like when somebody a girl dumped my son at school and in year two I'm like you know the mum was always chatting to me before and then I felt like because our kids broke up our friendship finished of course and it's like is that does that go on for the rest of the academic dynamic life or do we make friends well I see her in vodka revs one day you'll have to just meet up on the side have your own play dates without the kids I guess um but I've got to a point where I've been talking quite nicely to one of the mums yeah for a good three years now um and I don't really know her name and it's got too far now you know the kids name I know the kids names but I can't say I I don't even want to say it here just in case she's listening and she's like oh my god I knew it but it's gone too far now yeah we've been friends for like three years is she in your phone as such and such as mum yes yeah don't you find though when you have your first baby I found that transition really difficult where you are like always Hannah at work you know you've got like your career and everyone knows who you are and then you have a baby and you go to a group and it's like oh you're Bradley's mum yeah oh look it's Bradley's mum and it I don't I don't know about you but I found that transition quite difficult it's like oh no but I'm Hannah.

5:04Yeah, well it's part of losing your identity when you become a parent and it's such a thing. Like I really felt like I lost part of my identity when I became a mum. No one even called me Louise anymore. It was just, you know, Basil's mum or Sonny Arinka's mum and that was it. Yeah. And it's tough because you like, you lose your identity, like your body changes, your mindset changes, you're a different person because you're a mum but you don't know how you're supposed to act and be. Yeah. And it's like this huge transition of just, oh, you're Bradley's mum. Yeah. And it took me about two years of baby groups before you would actually learn people's names and then go, oh, like your name's actually Susie.

5:38And you've been friends for two years and I know your birth story. I know how many stitches you had after labor. But I didn't know your name. I got quite pleasantly surprised the other day on a play date when my son's friend called me by my first name. And I was like, thank you. It wasn't like, excuse me, or Sonny's mum, or oy. It was like, Louise, please may I, la la la. And I was like, oh, that's nice. Just you can, here's some more snacks. Talking of play dates, so that's part of my huge parenting fail this week. Although I kind of feel it wasn't actually my fault. I was stuck in the middle of it.

6:15Okay. And this is because of my wonderful father-in-law. Yeah. You know, and he's brilliant. And he's very kind of, you know, he grew up in the 1950s where parenting and being a child was very different. Yeah, yeah. And he does, you know, he gets boxing gloves out with him and like he wants them to punch him in the face. Yeah. And I'm a bit like. Sierra has all the best active and outdoor brands for the super athletic stuff, like running gear for cruising up the trail. Woo! And the super athletic-ish stuff, like fishing gear for chilling by the creek. Nice cast. Fitness apparel to push for higher reps.

6:54You got this. And golf balls priced so you can afford to lose one. or a few. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. You're teaching, so he taught my kids to punch people in the face. Yeah. And then I get the call from nursery, you know, your kids punching people in the face and I'm like, yeah, I know this. And like, you know, he gives them their own boxy gloves and I'm like, let's tone it down, shall we? I said to my father-in-law, I was like, we can't we can't play with those anymore in the house but thanks you know maybe some lego uh would be great it's like my um my son went to a friend's house and the dad used to be in the military and he had a a man-sized sword in the drawer like the cupboard yeah so we were all downstairs having a few drinks bit of a barbecue and it's like you know i always feel a bit weird when my kids go upstairs in other people's houses because i'm like oh don't because i'd feel weird if kids are going upstairs going through my knicker drawer and stuff I don't have anything exciting in my knicker drawer because they're all from like you know my postpartum massive beige pants but I'd be I'd feel a bit weird if kids are going through the drawers and um basically Logan found my at the time he was five found the sword in the cupboard and picked it up and it was really heavy so he dropped it near his foot and then my friend's dad kind of heard the noise and was like oh god I've left the cupboard open and I didn't know what was in the cupboard and they look him and his my friend the partner like looked at each other as if the cupboard's open I was like oh my god there's gonna be loads of sex toys and the kids are gonna come down with like stuff and it was like oh no Logan's just got the sword out the cupboard and dropped it just by his toe holy and I was like oh my goodness but to them it's like their kids know not to go in there of course and they know that it's a dangerous weapon but because I've got boys and they have swords and guns and stuff like that.

8:47It's quite scary. Lock it up. Yeah, just put a lock on the door. This week, we are thrilled to welcome our very first dad to the podcast. He's one of the original reality TV stars from Made in Chelsea. And a proud new father to twins Apollo and Cosima. A man who's sharing his journey into parenthood with honesty, humour and heart. We have the brilliant Ollie Locke joining us today. Welcome to No Parental Guidance. Our first dad's on the show. Our first dad. We're so excited. We want to ask you everything about parenting and how it is for you. But we'll start. What's your parenting fails? Have you got any at the top of your head?

9:26I tell you what, when you have, so I've got a boy and a girl and. Yeah, you have twins. Twins, yeah. I don't even know how. There are two on Tuesday. Oh, wow. Right in the toddlers. So they are, and they're little divas. Well, he, she certainly is. Yeah. But something that I've realized is because I don't, I used to thought I was quite a fashionable guy I thought that was kind of I quite liked my fashion Turns out I absolutely used this in girls clothing Because I'm not used to it Because obviously I don't shockingly Dress in women's clothing every day But for him it's fine I can make him look like a little Ralph model And that's fine Like wearing a little Ralph Make it a little me kind of thing That's fine But girls No idea how to do tights No idea how to do fair Oh yeah tights can be tricky They're a nightmare Yeah they can be It gets worse as well Great Sorry but also hair girl's hair I don't know how to plait I'm going to presume you're not one of the dads that gets like the Henry Hoover have you seen those where you put a bubble around the edge of it with the hair and then they just flick the bubble off it's a great hack yeah it's a great hack yeah hair in Hoover I'm going to presume that's not your style that's not my style but also it's one of those things that I do sit there and wonder I'm a massive clean freak when it comes I'm germaphobe and so I really don't like the idea of someone putting my daughter's hair in a Hoover literally what you clean is crap like it's so disgusting that's true so for me that would just so what do you do then when you know your daughter wants her hair now my little girl is actually two on the 11th of this month so they're obviously very very close my daughter doesn't have any hair yet so people think that she's a little boy so I dress her in pink dresses all the time but what do you do on a morning when she wants her hair doing do you just have to like watch a video on YouTube if I'm completely honest I get the nanny to do it but yeah that's great you know it's great that you have a nanny I was going to say otherwise I can't work well I know it's hard you've got two I know and they are they are two and they're running around and it's one of those it's chaos I did do a fail with him the other day which actually it's gone viral on my phone I'm really pleased with it because I put it up because I was like this is ridiculous that's brilliant I turned around and he was halfway through the cat flap and now manages to go through the cat flap this is your son the boy do you find that there is a difference between the boy and the girl beyond ridiculously yes of course it is she's happy sitting there wandering around with life and playing with a dinosaur he needs to constantly open and shut doors do anything mechanical he's fascinated with a hinge for some reason and everything's a nightmare and he will do everything to hurt himself banging his head everything and does he cry if he hurts himself or does he just get back up get back on it bit of both get back on the hinge sometimes it's actually just like yeah I know and do they get on yes sharing's funny Oh, sharing.

12:08That's a weird one. And although amazing, it's a, hmm, whether they want to share is up to them that minute. And do they like the same toys? Because I'd presume that they would want different things. But I guess naturally, if it's a sibling that's got a toy and they want it, they will take it. Yes, there's a fairly skank. Yes, always the horrible things you don't want, isn't it? You don't want them to have that toy. You give them everything, a wooden, beautiful. I did buy our surrogates kids a Nerf gun. Well, that's the worst decision I've ever made. Yes. Because those Nerf gun things, I'm still finding.

12:40There was like 50 of them. Oh, yeah. And they hurt. They do hurt. And you find them in all sorts of places. Everywhere. We're still finding them a year later. Seriously. Suddenly they're under... God knows where that's been. It's amazing. And how did you find the transition of becoming a father and having twins? Like what was that whole process like for you mentally? Because we talk about the mental load of like mums and childbirth and babies. So it's really nice to have a different perspective on it from a dad and how that process was for you. If I'm completely honest, we had no idea what we were doing.

13:10Well, none of us do. None of us do. But I think that was something quite interesting because we weren't there every day with our surrogate. And then suddenly at 31 weeks, they decided to come along. That's right. They were premature, weren't they? Super premature. Yeah. My daughter was 2 '11", 2 pounds 11, and her son was 3. That's tiny. And they were in NICU for five weeks. So we hadn't gone to any classes. No. Hadn't met anyone that had babies our age or was expecting. And so suddenly we were forced into this environment that was completely alien and we didn't know what to do. Luckily, with the incredible NICU lot in the NHS, they taught us everything we need to know, really.

13:52Or everything that has the basics. And when you can change a nappy in an incubator, you can do it everywhere. Oh, my gosh. So that's always. But yes, that was a horrible, horrible five weeks. Yeah, I mean, I think it's tough generally as a parent, but to have that experience. And then, as you said, go from just being like a regular guy, just, you know, in Chelsea, brilliant, and then going, I'm now a dad. We're now dads. Yeah. And our kids in the nick, like, yeah. Well, that was also a pain in the ass because I was, in my mind, I was like, I was brought up in Southampton and grew up in Southampton.

14:27I always look at my past and go, could have been a nicer place to have been born in Southampton, really. And so I was like, what's lovely is it's going to say Chelsea Because it'll be Chelsea and Westminster We were booked in They were born in Durham But I'm absolutely delighted Because it was terribly upsetting Because the NICU in Sunderland was better And so my son decided to stop breathing on the first night And so he got rushed to Sunderland So we had to spend two, three weeks in Sunderland Which, no offence, is a **** at all I was actually born like 20 minutes away The hospital, although they were absolutely amazing They really were very good It smells like cigarettes in that hospital Because people are outside smoking And it wafts into what feels like a kind of airport hangar in there And so it just stinks of cigarettes So that was always something you remember But thank God it doesn't say Sunderland on their passport At least we've got Durham But I was expecting Kensington and Chelsea And I thought what a wonderful thing to have That would be nice Such a strong passport that would have been, eh?

15:31What about, would you have another one just to get the name on the passport? No, because whatever, they'll probably be born up there as well. You know, you have no idea. No, I absolutely do not want any more children. You're done. Okay. Which is a little bit upsetting in a way because we've still got five embryos. Oh, wow. And so that's something that... Would you donate them? Again, morally, it's a really weird place to, where do you go? What do you do? One in a trillion chance of being able to be born. Yes. and they've come that far and they probably won't make it. And it just, that upsets me more than, and gives them, I get airtime in my head about that quite a lot.

16:05Weirdly. A friend of mine had the same issue. She was like, we've got these embryos, we don't know what to do with them and they're still just on ice and she's still not really sure. It's a, yeah. And it costs£1 ,200 a year to keep them on ice. Yeah, it's very, that decision might be made very soon. Yeah, I know. So hold on a second, I could use that money wisely. And your kids, they understand they've got two dads Do you like talk about it? Like, you know, your mum was Bex and, you know, it's all... They don't really know. I mean, they're too small for it at the moment. What's your plan to have a discussion?

16:38I refer to my parents have fostered for years and we have a foster brother. Now to my children, the eight, six and one, they've only ever known him as my brother. So when we have those conversations and they'll say to my mum, oh, did you have, when you had a foster brother, you know, what was the birth like? and ask questions and she my mom's kind of like oh sometimes you get caught off guard to answer questions is there a plan one day to have a discussion or my plan is of grandeur and I want to somehow find Neil Patrick Harris and speak to him about it because he was the reason one of the reasons why I wanted to have children because he he had twins boy and girl and they are fabulous and they're funny and they're cool and they're a wonderful family and they are that's one of the reasons why it pushed me towards it because I thought he was amazing but they seem all happy and wonderful and actually they all do online but it's I need to get advice on what to do and what's right and what's not because I don't know what is right or not.

17:39My so the same friends of mine who have their embryos on ice lesbian couple they got a sperm donor and every Father's Day, their children are now 12, 10, yeah, twins. And so they had an eldest and then twins. Every Father's Day, they let off a balloon and say, thank you, whoever's sperm that was. Terrible for the environment. I mean, awful for the environment. But, you know, the kids now know that their dad was in this balloon that's now flying over planet Earth. Yeah, it's not the best. Maybe don't do that I often think about this And this is a bit odd Yeah Where we got our eggs from We had a marathon journey Trying to do this We started off in America Then we went to Mexico Then Cyprus Then it happened in London Wow But the beginning we had We knew who the donor was And fabulous We saw pictures of her We have no idea What this person looks like Oh really?

18:39Anything I thought you knew who she was like actual like we knew the first one the the the babies that have come from from this bunch of eggs we have we've never seen a photo we know basic information about them because i i thought it was like a catalog where you could kind of look down and see images and a bit of a bio in america it's like tinder for choosing a baby parent yeah it's weird it's really interesting it's a fascinating thing to do it's really it's amazing because you're literally like well yeah i kind of i like her blonde hair, I like that brunette hair, whatever. And in America you can do that.

19:11In Britain, you absolutely can't. On their 18th birthday, they will receive a letter from the egg bank with all of her details. So I find this really, and they are, and if they want to contact her, that is legal and very much if you want to do that, and I wouldn't mind the slightest. Whose sperm was it? I haven't discussed that. Oh, okay. Okay. Do you want to? Probably not because it's not my decision to say. Okay. There will be something, but. Do you know? Yeah. Okay, fine. But it's not common knowledge yet? It's not common knowledge, but there's a reason why. Okay. All right. I will tell you off camera.

19:52Oh. I'm so excited. That's brilliant. It's actually fascinating, like with, you know, like technology and what can be done. and the fact that you and your partner wanted to have a family, you can have a family, you've got this amazing lifestyle, you've got this amazing home and you can bring your kids up with love and everything. What did you find the hardest part about bringing the babies from Sunderland, bringing the babies home? What was that like? You know, the first couple of three, four weeks where it's like, sorry, when do we sleep? Like, did you have a nanny from the get-go or were you straight into that the trenches and it was probably six weeks we did it on our own not knowing what we were doing and it is so difficult it's really difficult i can't remember the first six months i don't think really well we're all so sleep deprived um but twins who were premature yeah yeah i mean that's that's proper in the trenches should i add some some madness into that always my for the first eight weeks my house was rigged up with cameras as well did you argue with each other yes yeah yeah we definitely i feel like the arguing goes up a level when you have a child with with anyone yeah um my husband and i was like well we don't think we're not we're not very argumentative people that soon changed coming parents but it does that i feel like like did you not put the bins out andy and he's like no i didn't did you and i'm like well no because I'm sat here breastfeeding.

21:21Of course, I didn't put the bins out. And then it's like, this is so ridiculous. Like if me five years ago would have looked at myself in that moment, I'd be like, it doesn't matter. Like you didn't empty the dishwasher. No one's going to die. But it's the tiredness. The tiredness is an absolute killer. Forgetting your pin number. You forget everything. You don't know your own name. Wine was so important though, wasn't it? I must admit wine was terribly important. Wine. I was just about to say, I feel like parents, well, I mean, maybe I'm speaking for myself, but do you feel like you're drinking now more?

21:49that you're a parent? Yeah. Straight away. Legitimately. And I think that's okay. In Britain. Yes, yes. You speak to anyone American about this and you're the worst human in the world. Oh gosh. How does it work with your nanny then? Is she there nine to five? Because obviously with your job, you kind of - Nine till seven, five days a week. Oh my gosh, that's incredible. But just to piss everyone off, hugely. Oh God, God. My kids sleep till 9am every morning. And they go to bed at what time? Six. I was just about to say they go to bed at 6 o 'clock at night and they sleep till 9 and have done for about 4 months sorry sorry sorry again they go to bed at what time 6 o 'clock and they wake up at 9 9pm like what are they doing what's a nanny doing like are you drugging them no I'm not are you giving them wine no yes yes no but that's funny you say that because I did turn around at a kid's birthday party the day and Cosmo had my wine in hand I was like give it back that was you are extremely lucky and both of them do it as well they both do it is this something that your nanny or you guys have implemented in them?

22:52What does the nanny do with them during the day? And could my little girl who's the same age could she tag on? Could she just come and have a day a play date and make her go to sleep? We are so lucky and they don't really nap during the day. They go to play groups they go to museums we're so lucky to be in walking distance museums Yeah but that's a long sleeping time I can't really get my head over that they don't wake up at all No So how long have they done that for? How long have we had this? Since about four months. Oh my God. Get out. I know. Get out. That's why I said everyone's going to be pissed off.

23:22So the first, the first like six weeks was really difficult. And then what happened was at four months they decided to sleep for more than half the day. Yeah. They loved it. And they love it. They're so lazy. Do you want to get them into telly? Are they going to be on the show? Are they on the show? They have made appearances on the show. Yeah. I think people, we were so lucky. People were so invested in our journey from day one. So Gareth and I not only got married on camera, We went through the initial process of this on camera. We found out we had miscarried live on camera for the first time.

23:52And I'm sorry. No, it's one of those things. But I wanted to, if we were going to show what it was going to be like for two guys to have kids, I wanted to show the absolute raw dynamic of what it included. And so we did. And so now they're two, they're healthy, they're fabulous, lovely kids. I want to show what they're like now. Yeah. because people have been on this invested journey with us and I feel it's important to be able to show that absolutely I want to hear more of the the parenting fails because it sounds to me like you've got two like little catwalk models my daughter's a similar age she like she's covered in mud she likes to eat worms and she likes to vomit on my clothes how do you leave the house looking pristine and how do you keep them dressed like does it bother you if they're really dirty and messy are you kind of oh get them changed or are you one of those it's like you've got a bit of vomit on your shoulder and you're about to film Made in Chelsea.

24:45That adds to good storylines, really. If there is vomit on a suit or something like that, I've always said, wouldn't it be amazing to go to the BAFTAs with sick all down your shoulder? I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. My daughter was sick of me two weeks before. We can't do anything about it. It's completely relatable. I know it is, absolutely. One of our guests, Connie the other day, was at the BAFTAs years ago and she was... Hand expressing. Hand expressing, yeah. She was, what's the word? Not salivating. You're leaking. what's the word? Lactating. Thank you. Lactating. Salivating from your necks.

25:16Salivating from her. She had a real problem, Deccalde. She wasn't very well. But yeah, puke on your suit. Why not? When you're out with your kids and your twins and you're in a restaurant, which is always a bit chaotic, you can never really eat a full meal and can't have a conversation. Do you have that with your group of friends? Does everyone have kids now? Are you all in it together? Not really. We don't have that many friends with kids that are our age. Yeah. Because. Which is tricky because do you feel like you're like, do you understand that this is really hard? Who do you WhatsApp at like midnight?

25:49Or. Asking that question of like, is this normal? Yeah, exactly. Help me. Or do your kids sit still in the pub and let you eat? Because they sound very amazing already. It all depends. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they just want to cry and you just sit there and like, it drives you mad. But I mean, I don't know. We don't have that many friends with kids. And I think that's always been difficult because I've got friends that are kind of immaculate friends that they've done everything by the book. And it's really annoying. And their kid is perfect and speaks perfectly. And they go away on weekends with their other friends from the group school.

26:22NCT. NCT, all that kind of stuff. We didn't do any of that. And people are slightly punishing us sometimes because they're like, why do you not go out anymore? I'm like, because we can't. Also, sorry, nowadays, it's not like back when we were young and mum and dad would go out and give a tenner to a 15 year old, they're a hundred quid to go out now. Yeah, yeah. Like, that's so expensive. Yes. Babysitters. Babysitters are, yeah, yeah. So I kind of find now that I don't really want to go out as much. You have those friends that don't have kids and it's like, by the time I finished working, getting the kids ready for bed, putting them to bed, eventually, I'm like, I just want to sit down and watch Netflix and have a cup of tea next to my husband and not speak.

27:02It'd just be boring. Staying is new going out. Yeah, I know. And it's the cost of getting babysitters and someone that's prepared to A, have three kids or twins that would come around and be like, they should be asleep. They shouldn't wake up. And then you think like when I was younger, there'd be a 15 year old that my parents would have given 10 quid to and eat what you want in the fridge. And her boyfriend would probably come around. And it, you know, that was babysitting. It's a wonderful cliche in a movie, isn't it? The boyfriend coming around snobby on the sofa. That's what our babysitter's doing now.

27:31We've had her since she was 15. She's now 18. And she's now coming around with her boyfriend. And I'm like, are you doing much babysitting? babysitting. Or are you just snogging? It will be snogging 150%. The whole time. Oh gosh. And that's if you're lucky. There might be more. Oh gosh no. On your clean sofas. They're not clean. They're definitely not clean. On your filthy sofas. They're definitely not clean now. My filthy sofas are getting more filthy. Oh gosh. But yeah that's what it is. Can you imagine going to a nightclub right now? Honestly it depends on the music. I can't imagine it. I would think.

28:07The thought of it's great but the reality of thinking the kids are going to be up in the morning and if I drink yes they are going to be up in the morning. The hangover with twins have you experienced a hangover and looking after the twins the next day? Yes and that is that's when they were also very young and now I can sort of deal with it more because we have we have a little cinema room in our house that we've turned into the playroom right and it has a door on it that we can shut and so I go in there and it's a bit of a it's a it's a nice Sunday space that we can sit there and put on something on the television nice and they will play and they don't interestingly they don't sit there and watch television they play yeah whilst it's on in the background yeah and what are they like with do you meet up with the other made in Chelsea cast members with their kids do you all get together I had a massive argument with one of my best friends Binky a couple of nights ago because she was like you don't make any effort anymore and I'm like Binks I've got twins, you've got three kids, between us we've got five kids.

29:02Yeah, it's tough. It's a lot. And you're outside of London a bit. I'm in central London. It's getting, logistically getting there is hard. And I have to have someone with me because a double pram is a pain in the arms. Yeah, yeah. And all the stuff you need to take, the snacks, everything. Nappies. Yeah. We have been quite lucky. They have been on 27 flights so far. Oh my word. That's impressive. So they were, when they were in Sunderland, there was a bit of an issue where, where they had to be flown down by, by an ambulance jet. Wow. Because it was too far to come in an ambulance. And so they started life on a little private jet.

29:46Oh my gosh. Which I think is quite fabulous. You loved it, didn't you? Yeah. Six months after that, we decided to go to Barbados in business. And that was quite wonderful. and had a lovely time, long flight, nightmare with the kids, but it was fine because they slept. Of course they did. Yeah, of course they did. Of course they did because they're sleepers. What was the nightmare then on the plane? Well, then we went to Ireland and they cried the entire journey. And I was like, this is a nightmare. It's only an hour. Well, I realized why. I realized what that someone said on the first flight. I said, no, it's actually their 15th flight.

30:15And they started off on a private jet. They'd been business. Now they're an economy. That's why they're crying. Oh my God. That's brilliant. From now on, it's like the only business. That is it. Oh my gosh, brilliant. How has your mum, who is actually with us today in the studio, has she been as a grandmother? Is this the first time she's a grandmother? No, she's got two already from my sister. Okay, so she's seasoned. So I think that was a good basic training. Yeah. They are very, very different, me and my sister, in bringing our children up with manners and stuff like that. Okay. No, not manners as in like that.

30:46They're very polite children. Are you very hot on manners? I will be, certainly. Oh yeah. they live basically on a farm and we live in central London. So it's a completely different children. So are they more feral, would you say? They've got chickens and mud and worms and all that kind of stuff. We live in Chelsea. It's a very different world. That's brilliant. But, yes, mum's loved being a grandmother and she's a very good grandmother. But we don't get to see her that much because she lives down in Southampton. So we don't have any family around us to help. So that's been tough. Yeah, yeah. That is tough.

31:20It's a bit of a transition sometimes where you can just take it for granted. Like, oh, I'm going to go to the shop or I'm just going to go and pick. I've got an appointment. And it's like, well, hold on a second. No, because who's going to look after? And, you know, like if your partner's working and you think, well, I can't do it. I can't go. I take the kids with me. Yeah. But he does have a nanny five days a week from. Sierra has all the best active and outdoor brands for the super athletic stuff, like running gear for cruising up the trail. Woo! And the super athletic-ish stuff. Like fishing gear for chilling by the creek.

31:52Nice cast. Fitness apparel to push for higher reps. You got this. And golf balls priced so you can afford to lose one. Or a few. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. Yeah. 9 to 7, we'll say. Yeah. And does she ever do weekends? What about on a Saturday night? If you think, oh, should we go out? Well, we are actually taking her away next week. Oh, that's right. We're going to Norway on a P &O cruise. Are you? Are you? Oh, nice. Which is an interesting situation. I've never done a cruise before.