Trinny Woodall speaks for the first time about her emotional journey to becoming a parent

0:00Before we start, a massive shout out to our sponsor Jet2 Holidays for making family holidays actually achievable without taking out a second mortgage. Flights, hotels, transfers, 22kg baggage and 10kg hand luggage all bundled in. It's like someone finally read parents' minds. VIP vibes without the VIP price. Hi guys, before we get into today's wonderful episode with Trini Woodall, I just wanted to give you a quick trigger warning regarding the topics discussed. This episode includes discussions on sensitive subjects which some listeners may find upsetting and they include miscarriage, fertility, death, disability and drug addiction.

0:40Please listen with care and make sure you prioritise your wellbeing. Links in our description to find support. Thank you. Coming up, Trini from the deli. And I was like, yes. We watch your show. I was like, thank you, Lord. Whenever she comes back from uni, she comes in and she stalks. And she goes, that's new. And then she'll... That's going to be mine. Hello, darling. one day you're going to be mine and that's literally she talks to my clothes we then did IVF and I had miscarriages you know I was in situations where we were filming and I miscarried you know when we were filming and then you go oh okay it's like your heart just sinks your heart just sinks and so I just thought that's it you know I've lost it again

1:34Oh, Louise. December already. We're here. The elf on the shelf's back. It's back. So you're an elf on the shelfer? Well, I am. I am. I don't want to be. Me neither. But it's like. But I am. You go to bed at like half 10, 11 o 'clock and you lay down and you're like, I've locked the doors, the dishwasher's on and then you think, have you done the elf? Do you go really creative? Like loo roll everywhere or the cellophane on the loo seat and Cheerios? Well, I don't do the cellophane on the toilet because I made a mistake of doing that a few years ago. and my four-year-old at the time went for a wee and I'd put like you know the jelly sweets that come in like a plastic packaging that like spiders and stuff you have to peel the top off and it's like jelly slime so I put a load of those on and the elf like a pretend fishing rod and he basically all over it and then he once he'd weed and the wee had just dispersed he was like and then just started picking the sweets off to eat them I was like no god yeah maybe maybe not that one maybe not that one yeah last year I got to the point where I ran out of ideas and was kind of sick and tired of it so I got my like food like blender processor whatever it is and I attached an elf on it and it looked like it was doing like a lap dance like it's spinning round and round and round a little slot drop in the kitchen I'm gonna do that one again but I think the kids were like mum what is that and you have to do different because like our kids are getting older they will remember um like what we did last year the mental load in december is insane insane how many emails and text messages and whatsapp have you had from the school so so many just today but part of me was like we should have a separate whatsapp group for nativity we should have a separate whatsapp group for like god concepts and all and then i was like no we don't but i'm just losing my thread with what we've got on for that day and that day bradley had a sports fixture the other day and he was like are you coming today mummy and i was like well what's going on today and he said i've got my rugby match and it was at another school and i had annabelle with me and it was raining i was like there is not a chance i'm taking that two-year-old like to a rugby pitch in the rain i know so i felt really bad so i had to say to my husband sexual favors you can go fine do you know my friend has created an advent calendar for her husband and every day it's a different sexual favor what for for december for doing a chore no just his advent so oh what do i have today giving out sexual favors to him every day yeah so she's made an advent calendar so like monday is it going to sell tuesday just no between them just for him yeah and she was like do you do anything like that for your husband do they have kids uh no they don't there you go which i'm just going to move on to the parenting fail this this this week this happened last week and i just want to say if there are any little ears listening uh probably best to uh zone out right now and not listen not listen so we're in the car we've got all the three kids in the car and when we're in the car with the kids we don't give them you know ipads or phones or anything because you know we're only going like 20 minutes down the road they do not need an ipad in the car yeah and we like to chat you know as a family in the car and sing anyway so we're in the car you can tell that all the kids are engaged in what we're talking about and I'm I am on my phone and I'm writing a script for a reel which will probably go out at some point this week and um Jesse's like what are you doing and I said I'm just writing a script for um a reel that I'm doing for for Christmas and then I said actually I could I could use some help I said what what are the like what things do mums do at Christmas you know that maybe dads possibly don't do and the first thing yeah apart from everything the first thing he said in front of my three children oh god two of them who are very much believers yeah he said oh well you know you uh do all the Christmas stockings and I just gave him the look of death yeah and he went what oh no I was like our children are in the car read the room and you've just basically said that I do all the stockings yeah and he still was like oh I was so angry audio impression you do I was so angry I was like you couldn't have said something else or maybe not oh yeah you feel the stockings and And then, so I got angry and then he was like, what?

6:03They've never heard the word stockings before. And I was like, no, no, of course they haven't. How about maybe every Christmas where I say, let's get your stockings out. Let's put your stockings at the end of the bed. Stockings fillers. Stockings. Stockings. Yeah. So I just wonder if, you know, my husband basically killed the magic of Christmas right there in that moment. What did the kids say? Do you think they, did they hear and say, what does he say? They didn't. I really, really hope they didn't hear. but I wouldn't be surprised if they did hear and just kept quiet. Like my eldest knows, but the six-year-old is very much, and I want to hold on to that for as long as I can.

6:38Oh, it's so magical, isn't it? Like the excitement and build up at this time when they're like so excited. But you always have that moment where they're like, what did you get me for Christmas? Well, and then Bradley last year was like, mommy, everybody's bought us presents apart from you and daddy. And I was like, we pay the mortgage and the gas and the electric. You want a gift? You're watching television. yeah I was like oh god Bradley no we we sort of um we've you know Christmas dinner and I was trying to find things that we've got for them but my friend has got a thing where they uh they get one gift from Santa and they wrap it in gold paper oh okay so that's so what no stockings so they have stockings and stuff but they'll have that one gift from Santa and then all the other bits around it from them and the family okay because my friend was like well isn't it weird that you don't get anything for your kids at Christmas yeah and I was like well that's we've never done it like that so I get confused because we tell the kids to write to Santa like what you want for Christmas yeah but those presents that they ask for then it's from me is that weird am I doing it wrong like I didn't have a present under the tree from Santa it was just my stocking yeah is that what you had so we just had our presents set out on a chair and we'd stand at the top yeah so we just have them instead of a Christmas tree yeah so we'd have the Christmas tree there my chair and Andrew's chair and then we'd be like stood at the top of stairs like he's been and then you know when you're younger and you're like I think I've just seen him I've just seen him and my mum and dad would be like that it's like four o 'clock in the morning but that excitement and then some people I know get like um Christmas paper and just like put that in front of the door we do that you have to break through it and I just I love everybody's different traditions like we have tea time presents at home so every year my dad buys me a jar of pickled eggs which is just the same thing every year sounds a bit weird but we just get each other like pickled egg i love eggs i like pickle so together that could be quite a delight you a little tea time present for christmas what did you get from hannah just some pickled eggs like good eggs good friends are you yeah yeah going really well yeah what about you parenting fails this week so uh annabelle as i've made you aware like she's having her terrible twos at the moment and it's absolutely delightful until i went into the supermarket the other day she started to have a tantrum on the floor and I was like dirty off the floor dirty and then I said right Annabelle if you're gonna have a tantrum let me know when you're finished and there's quite an attractive guy walking down the cereal aisle and uh I took about 10 paces in front and I turned around and literally she'd she'd got 15 boxes of cereal and just f***ing swiped it off the shelf onto the floor and like almost like hooked the cereal boxes and continuously walked and I was like and I looked like I just was so out of control and didn't know what I was doing and she just looked like she's out of control because of how I behave so I yeah I did that thing and I haven't done that before I'm like you know you let me know when you've finished your tantrum thinking she's like wicked yeah I'm gonna show you what I can really do isn't it funny how when when you look at your day to day just getting ready for school getting ready to leave the house like every parent is doing the exact same thing yeah of like right you don't want cereal you don't want you have you love shreddies you don't want shreddies tomorrow you want a cornflake you hate shreddies you don't want that spoon which spoon do you want paw patrol you want a knife and fork so i'm like you eat your shreddies with a knife and fork you don't want that cup okay and all you're trying to do is just get ready and like sometimes i leave with like blusher on one side of my face and mascara on one eye and then you leave and you just say it's okay we're all fine we're all happy yeah we all made it out we're all still here february is sneaky it's short but somehow it still feels endless but the thing that snaps me out of the midwinter gloom getting a summer holiday in the diary oh 100 and that's why we're so excited to have jet two holidays on board because nothing beats knowing that you've secured this summer sunshine now exactly you pop down a low deposit, pick your perfect spot and boom, instant mood lift, future sun sorted and present you gets to feel just a tiny bit smug.

10:46She first became a household name telling the nation what not to wear but today she's revolutionising the beauty industry. From fashion guru and author to the founder and CEO of Trini London, our guest is a true entrepreneur and style icon. Absolutely, please give a huge welcome to the one and only Trini Woodall. Good morning. She's here. Hello. Hello, welcome. And can we just say how fabulous you look and you are just generally? Well, can I just say what an amazing setting you have? First of all, you're both looking great. The lighting is relatively flattering. You know, it's a sophisticated room.

11:22Just for those of you who've never actually imagined what it's like for Louise and Hannah in their podcast world, there's a little bar in the corner. There's lots of, you know, incredibly impressive camera equipment, which seems to be remotely controlled. And there's a gallery upstairs where people are watching this podcast and you know speaking in their ears that's how sophisticated their podcast is mine was in a small dark cellar in shortage yeah but it was still a great podcast obviously you are on it yeah well and you're here you're here we're so thrilled so delighted to have you i'm very happy to be here but i'm wondering am i the grandmother in the room of the mothers you chat to because i don't have little children no no but you have how old is your daughter 22 so we need to know what that's like what is it like having a 22 year old what are we what are we everyone we have a certain relationship so i'd say we're really very close on some levels and on other levels we have a line that we draw to divide things so i think when you're a sort of single parent there's an intimacy and there's things that occur which maybe don't occur when there's two parents and the biggest differences are you kind of know you only have each other and especially if you've she has a half brother does he live with you no he has lived with me though he moved out last year and he was Zach this is Zach yeah who you met but you're very close but you know you have to make up you know so you can't as a I think growing up you can't feel I can play one off against the other or I can go to dad when mom's upset or I can go to mom when any parents who have an estranged moment with their partner would would notice that so on the other hand you need to keep your own space so because lila is nearly a single child apart from zach her brother she likes her own time as well and also the big thing now being 22 at university in madrid and we probably speak about three or four times we probably speak about three times a day now or twice a day but we used to speak 10 times a day but she would never ever ever tell me anything about her relationships right all right so i go you know how's dating going i'm not telling you um and zach and i go have you got a boyfriend i'm not telling you and when i get engaged i might tell you so this is kind of nothing at all all right so why is that are you private about talking about your relationships to your daughter would you not say i'd shout from the I'd be both talking if I had one, darling.

13:53No. Are you looking for love? I don't know. I think I'm open to it, but I'm not. On the apps or anything? No, I'm not on the apps. Would you rather be more organic and meet somebody? Totally. Like whether it's on an aeroplane. So I just try and fly a lot. I was just talking about this in the makeup room. She flew here this morning. The amount of people that I met a guy on a plane once. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I ended up sleeping with him. Did you? Yeah. On the plane or afterwards? No, no, not on the plane. and I'm not part of that club yet. We met five minutes ago, a quick bang in the toilet. Nice to meet you.

14:26I always feel like people are really uncomfortable and they always are so small and dirty and you just think, no. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen people come out of the toilets together on a plane. Have you? And be like, oi, oi. What do you think though? Somebody from like row 23 has just dropped their guts in the toilet and you go in there, you're chewing it. And then the last thing I think I'd want to do was like, let's have a quick shagging toilet. I couldn't think of anything worse. You're making it sound so romantic. I know. oh that's so good because it really deviates away but I'm not I'm feeling life is full what I'm doing now is I'm saying yes to things because before there was that it's Lila and it's work and there and not room for much else and now I'm really re-engaging with friendships because Lila is also 22 and so I'm you know I would kind of not go out that much during the week do a little bit at the weekend and now I'm doing a lot more and I'm traveling yeah and just I travel a lot for work but I'm actually making an effort.

15:21What's it like with the whole like leaving the nest like when Lila left was it like oh my god like what now did you just throw yourself into your business or was it like oh thank god for that? I think it's different for everyone and I think it depends on how your child is because Lila had had some anxiety between when she left school and when she went to uni. Lila had an intention to do a gap year I had really wanted her to do this course that I had sort of started and not finished in it was an art course in Venice it's like the most romantic fabulous thing and she was christened in Venice and I had my 40th birthday in Venice we have a big association with Venice so I had this dream for her you know when you have a dream for your child I had this dream for her and she was really into it and so September you know everyone was going off for stuff but she was in London she did a bit of work experience and then in January she was meant to start this but she went away and she got profoundly anxious and she'd had a little bit of anxiety before because she'd lost her dad 11 and so that being totally away from home even though she'd been at boarding school being totally away from home made it very things came up and she became so aggressively anxious over a period of days and so we got her back and there's a an amazing grief therapist called Julia Samuel who'd helped me when Johnny died and I called her up and I said what do I do and she said see you know get this woman um Priscilla Short so I got her to see her and she saw her for a year and so then when she was going to uni it wasn't so much oh I'm so sad she's going it was I really hope she flies oh that's lovely it was a very different feeling and so you know the first week that when I went there I could feel that little anxiety and we were in her little room and so for me it was how do I make things feel like home you know like cozy rugs and and and prints on the wall and then I did these post-it notes that I put all around her um little space and so you know whether it was in her bathroom on the mirror it was like don't pick your spots and then by by the um side of her bedside table it was a saying her dad always had said to her which is 99 % of everything you worry about never happens and so I put that there and then just above her mirror where she does her makeup but she pretends to work I put breathe you know and there were these different things that um that we did and then I put some things inside her laptop um which is you know you can use this not just for Minecraft you can actually work because it's a little bit like so just it I think it it's important that you can when you leave your child in a situation which is new to them they feel this comfort and I then got back this is the sweetest thing I got back and Zach um who's her brother had moved in and he was cooking me dinner and he said I'll come and stay for a couple days he stayed for a year and a half oh did he Yeah, but it was just very nice that.

18:27And so I wasn't on my own. So then this autumn, she went back to uni, but Zach had left because he's got his own place. His girlfriend said, you can't live with your stepmother, age 31. It's just not on. You're a very cool stepmother. No, I know. But still, it's the concept. And I get that. And so I was on my own for the first time and I really missed her. I really felt it. I felt what I hadn't felt that first year because it was very. Yes. It was very different. Yeah. And because, you know, I guess within that first period, you didn't know how it was going to go. She's heavily relying on you for that communication.

18:56But now it's actually, she's gone and standing on her own two feet and sort of flown the nest. That with a post-it, I literally felt like I could have cried when you said that. That's so, so sweet. I still cry and I'm 40. I still cry when my parents leave my house. They live three hours away from me. When they dropped me off at uni, I was literally, I looked like I was in a prison cell and they brought all my stuff, making it home from home. And you don't appreciate all this stuff until you become a parent. and then uh even i mean last two summers ago when my daughter my third child my daughter was born my mom came to stay for a few weeks to help out and they left as my my two sons had a sickness bug my mom and dad had to go back because they foster kids so they needed to be back home to do various things and i remember i stood at that was a bit hormonal but i stood at the window and i remember thinking i don't want them to leave because i feel so lucky that i've got them and they've been so helpful to me and it's when you become like a parent yourself you realize you know how hard it was for your parents as well but it's those little things my dad would put some sweets in my glove compartment yeah or you know just like little things with the whole like post-it note and the empowerment of you writing messages you're repeating you're repeating what your parents did for you yeah and i'm doing the opposite of what my mother did with me i gave my mom a party bag that's interesting you you gave her a party bag to leave your house yeah get out go time's up out yeah how i adore her but sometimes i'm like mom leave yeah it's funny everybody has like such different sort of relationships don't they with with parents and stuff how how was that for you i went to boarding school at six and a half so yeah so i think the relationship with my parents was slightly detached how often did you see them i saw them three times a year really oh my gosh really and there wouldn't have been phones or like no no emails no space that 10 10 calls a day like you you've had no no no it was a call a week yeah that's really a call a week so it was very different and it was all i knew so i didn't feel this is weird and i was with girls obviously my same age who would who were going through the same thing and on and off i i spent two years where i went to a school because they lived abroad an american school in germany where i did see them every day and I didn't particularly get on with my mum.

21:11And then I went to boarding school again at 11 until I was 16. And then I moved to London and my parents were still abroad. So I have to say, I was the youngest of six for my dad and the youngest of three for my mum. And it was complicated, but I was never huggy with my mother. You know, we didn't have that. When you look at Lila when she was six and knowing that that was your age. Horrific. Yeah. I have to say, I literally at six and a half, I remember thinking, I think I'd just done a chat with somebody and I got home and Lila was coming back from school. And I really looked and I thought, I can't understand that.

21:49And am I right in saying, and maybe lots of people don't know this about you, is that you had 16 rounds of IVF. I did have 16 rounds of IVF, yeah. I mean, that's, which is absolutely incredible. Incredible. Expensive. Expensive. And draining for you and your body. Yeah. mentally and emotionally what was that whole journey like for you it was interesting because I didn't know I didn't have those yearnings to be a mum until my 30s and maybe that was because my relationship with my mum was quite distant but it wasn't that kind of I didn't have that god I can't wait to be a mum feeling and Susanna and I working together and Susanna had Jo her oldest and she had Jo when we had started a business together I'd say you know I'd call her up at 8 13 where are you and she'd go I'm breastfeeding and I'll go well when will you be in I had no regard at all for the concept of motherhood for her so that was baby number one I like pretended she wasn't pregnant or I literally pretend she wasn't pregnant pretend she didn't have a child because I couldn't deal with it and then Esme came along which was baby number two of Susanna and I noticed this evolution in Susanna and she helped me to appreciate how much I wanted to be a mum and so with Jo I then I did start doing IVF because I we had never used the pill and so we weren't getting pregnant and so I just we then did IVF and um and it worked on the second time but I had miscarriages so I was working and then there was that whole thing of you know I was in situations where we were filming and I miscarried you know when we were filming and it was that was the first time was was quite you know you're sort of filming and then you feel that trickle and you go in the bathroom and then you go oh okay it's like your heart just sinks your heart just sinks and did you tell anyone i i don't remember if i did louise i don't know i was quite private always between separating out work and and what was going on i definitely would have told susanna but i don't know if i would have told the production no and you just carried on oh yeah for sure so you'd sort of feel that trickle and just be like okay well we've got some more scenes to do so I just kind of yeah because otherwise what else do you do yeah because also when you do IVF it could be that you've put two eggs in and one egg is coming out you don't know so there's that sort of sense that maybe you know and then I that hope tiny bit of hope so um then I did a few more didn't work and then I did again and I got pregnant and then it happened again but it happened a bit later it happened at 16 weeks so then I had to go and I had to give birth it's very difficult because I haven't thought about this for a while because it was 24 years ago but if I think about it now I remember where I was living and I remember Johnny taking me to hospital but I remember that thing of giving birth and I wanted to feel how formed was she you know and I didn't know if it was a boy or girl actually and I didn't ask I didn't ask I'm saying she because of Lila you know so then Johnny went away we'd done these full IVFs full on full on and then Johnny went away and he was my husband at the time was sort of sometimes not that well he had problems with um pain meds and he was in rehab and so my lady called me up she said you've got um you've got some um embryos do you want us to just put them in you know not do the whole IVF process and so I said why not so I remember legs and stirrups she put them in and um and I literally thought I've never done it this way before it was literally sort of there's eggs there they're left I'd sort of let go it was a few years later and I then just imagined it was the first time ever because before then I would call literally day 12 and say can I come in now for a for a blood test you know I just you had that feeling anyone's gone through idea.

25:48How long was this period of time? About five years. Five years right. And so she called me up and said you you haven't called me and I it was like day 15 and I just thought because also I think I just thought it's I literally thought it's not going to happen so I then said okay I'll go in and I was pregnant. Wow oh my god that feeling of and that kind of like but I then went over with Susanna and we went to do the Oscars in LA with this woman called Diane and we were on the red carpet and it was a really big deal for us to do it. We were doing it for Good Morning America and we were working quite a lot in America then.

26:24And Susannah was also pregnant with Cece and we were both on the red carpet and we both got back and we both had blood in our pants. And so I just thought that's it, you know, I've lost it again. And I remember calling up my guy in London in the middle of the night and just saying I think I've lost a baby again. So I arrived from the airport and I went straight to see him. And he had this little portable machine and he put it on my tummy and I could hear her heartbeat. And I just, I literally so didn't expect to hear her heartbeat. And so I couldn't believe it. And I think I'd lost an egg, you know, because they put a few back in and I think I'd lost, you know, I won't call it a twin, but I think I'd, you know, one of them came up.

27:14So then I had, I literally had a scan every few weeks. I think when you've lost and you've miscarried, and also she did not move once. Really? And I think because I didn't feel her, I didn't know she was alive. And she was upside down and back to front. And that's why I didn't feel her. And she was quite little. And then I went a few, you know, a month and a half before just to have a checkup. And then I had to have her the next day because I'd lost fluid. so how how many weeks were you when she was born she was well she was meant to be born at the end of november and she was born in october so i don't know six weeks and all of that apprehension all of the five six years of everything you've been through and when you talk then it just it was so raw and so relatable because we've both been through experiences and especially having fertility treatment which i had to as well it's it's that um that feeling when you hold that baby for the first time yeah what like describe that moment when you held her it was um it was a mix it was a mix because I had to have a cesarean because she you know couldn't come out and so there was a fear all the way through that process and then she came out and Johnny was holding her and I said is she okay and he went she's great just a little thing around her legs and I remember pulling back the things and her legs were back to front she had very bad talipes in both her feet she'd been back to front and upside down so her feet were like club feet and back to front oh my gosh really and yeah so I I kind of I remember looking at her and thinking she'll never walk I remember that feeling she will never walk and then Tio came in and he said I've got I found this guy he's the best person and Trini we're going to operate on her now and he's going to break all her bones and reset them.

29:10Oh my gosh. So they took her off. And this was straight after she was born? Yeah. Within that moment you just looked at her, processed her? I think they maybe did it the next day. Anyway, she came back from hospital with these casts on her little baby legs, which stayed on for about six weeks. Oh my gosh. And had to be changed every two weeks. And she had to have special shoes and then she had to really, like, you know she learned to walk a little bit differently and then she's you know by the time Lila was two she was absolutely fine um but I think every step there was that so you don't give yourself an expectation that everything's going to be perfect because you're experiencing so you kind of and then I wanted to have another child and then I did another um I did another five rounds of IVF but I didn't get pregnant because like this stage I'm 40 I have no hormones hardly left and then as soon as Lila was about sort of seven or eight and whenever I had a bloated tummy she was literally that better not be a baby because it's only me oh oh yeah only me it's like my dog today it's all about me don't let any other dogs so there is an element to Lila where and now we joke about it she was like god if you had had another child I wouldn't have let it exist you know i'm like okay and can i ask a question and it's like a personal thing so you you've obviously experienced um quite a few miscarriages and the failed experiences looking back now what would your current self say to your previous self because there'll be people listening that have been through miscarriage or how our experience you know going through fertility treatment and stuff that are feeling in that dark place like you said about you have that trickle and you think oh like you just think oh I mean I think there's a I think there's a mix during that time I felt I'll never be a mother but I'll never not be a mother you live in the suspension but I was so I felt so profoundly blessed and the moment that kind of all came together is I wanted to do a christening for Lila where we so celebrated in a way the christening was celebrating that five-year journey which had been a tough journey yeah so i had this extravaganza and i had gone a lot to venice as a child so i said johnny i think we should christen lila here this is such a beautiful church so we found out that um we knew it was an english church and we called up the refectory the rectory and the vicar um vicar's wife came on and i she went hello i went hello i um i was just going past your church and i wanted to christen my daughter i wonder if you'd than that do you live in venice i said no i i don't know in venice actually do you have any connection with venice and i was like i've been here a lot well i just don't know you want you can speak to my husband so this man came on goes hello i go hi well you want to get your daughter christened in venice do you have any connection to venice i go no what's your name i went it's Trini, Trini from the deli?

32:18And I was like yes and he was like we watch your show. I was like thank you lord. That's the connection. This is like the best connection ever I'd had for what not to wear. Wind the movie forward four months and it's May weekend and we're christening Lila and we're in this church and I remember holding her and they were saying the most relevant words and the shaft of light came down and hit Lila and it was so, everyone in the church was like oh my god it was a real moment and we i caught it and somebody caught in a photograph and i really i thought miracle this is a miracle baby and i so i always feel as much as she can be challenging or whatever she is which is generally wonderful that sense of i'm so blessed that i managed to do this going back to lila i've seen you and lila together and you do have this beautiful relationship like does she borrow your clothes was she like that awkward teenager that was she did more tomboy look and one thing about lilu she's never been a uniform dresser so she hasn't she doesn't have a set of friends where they all dress the same we're at a stage now where i can't believe i do this but i say do you like what i'm wearing is that you know because it was never anyone ever ever ever i would say that to yeah ever when people say who are you inspired by to dress and i go no one yeah because i by myself yeah and so i by myself exactly right and just to have the freedom to say that without feeling one sounds arrogant i just i am and you do look i mean you look unbelievable yeah but i have looked talk about yeah but i have really looked in my life so i went through that period of lila too of just like dressing i had orange fake tan she had a moment of like so much makeup and that was challenging she had spots and makeup and that's when i did say because i had had really bad acne and i was like darling do you think maybe you should wear less foundation and she was she would just throw it back at me and go don't put on me the feelings you had as a 13 year old right has she ever hated any of your outfits i remember once walking down the king's road and i had a yellow suit on and i had a yellow mango fluffy coat so i was head to toe sesame street bird and i was just walking down the street and she went i don't quite know if i can walk down the street next to you and i go there's always the outside the pavement darling it's up to you i i do think you can get to a time with your kid where they can be very critical of you and i have always set up a very strong boundary that she can't and we were talking about this earlier about your kids almost like dictators and they bully you a little bit yeah you think if anyone spoke to you like that in the street you'd be like excuse me yeah don't speak to me like that so that's really a really good uh i'd say like bit of advice is like that the boundaries because otherwise they would just use you oh god yeah so i do think there are times where i take it too far i shut the door in her face kind of thing but I feel that as a result I try not to talk about how she dresses and she doesn't talk about how I dress but generally also she likes my stuff so then we got to a stage where I have quite an archive of clothes you know there's storage units around London all right because I worked in fashion for years but but I would take like the storage unit occasionally because I was sorting it out and she'd like make a huge goddamn mess and then I'd I'd pull out you you know, design addresses black, design addresses vintage, design addresses floral, design addresses geometric.

35:34And she'd rifle through everything. And I put them in tissue paper neatly. And I'll just go, oh. And then I'd say, will you ever wear that? She'll, I'll never wear that. And so where she's got to now is if I buy something new, whenever she comes back from uni, she comes in and she stalks my wardrobe to see what's new. She sniffs. She comes upstairs. I'm working there. And she'll just go around and go, what are you doing? She said, I'm just checking it out. So she'll sniff. and she goes that's new okay yeah um and then she's gonna be mine yeah no it's more i did a a um a big deal recently just for work and it had taken sort of eight weeks of literally 18 hours a day of working and it was something that was profoundly stressful and whenever i do something where it's that whether it's something i've had to do or it's a success i buy myself a bag.

36:24I inherited a few Elmé's bags from my mom, but I had never bought one. And Johnny had given me one. And then I keep seeing influence with them, which puts me off them. But I also thought I'd like this bashed up gray one. And I kept eyeing it up. And then I went in the day I did that deal and everything had been signed. And I'd sent off 300 million documents. And I was like, so exhausted by it. I left the office. I said, Molly, I just need to go and get a coffee. so she came with me and then we walked into the secondhand shop and i went up and i'd been at the weekend to look at it for the 10th time and i said i'm going to take that and it was a birkin 14 sort of grief so i that was then in the cupboard okay so she comes back and she you know like this and then she picks up and she goes hello darling one day you're going to be mine i really look forward to our long relationship and that's literally she talks to my clothes um right parenting fails parenting fails there are so many where do you want to start um cooking for my child yes doesn't happen would you burn food or just just i burn food now do you oh i mean yes susannah even put on her instagram recently a i'd put something in the oven which was a pear and banana crumble which I actually have made in the past but that evening somebody hadn't made and I just forgot about it and just everyone was about to leave I went oh there's dessert in the oven took it out it literally set the kitchen on fire so I burn food yeah I burn food and I am profoundly undomesticated I imagine your wardrobe is pristine yeah and I keep it I'm very I keep it very neat I can't deal with mess so i am a very ocd it's just so hard when but you think is you have more than one yeah three you've both got three and i think when you have one there is a manageability you know where the first child is and the second child is and the third child is oh yeah lick the floor so i never got past that first child syndrome let's uh let's talk about let's talk about truly london yeah um because i think that our listeners i don't know what we've given you I mean, well, I'm, as you know, a huge fan of Trini.

38:42I'm sure, hopefully you've all seen the... Let's see, we might have just given you today the wrong thing. So you can like... I think if anyone's seen the Trini Christmas gifting campaign, which I am in as the frazzled mum. Sorry, plump up. Plump up, yeah. Honestly, these products... Have you tried my bouncy skin? Have you tried it yet? You haven't. There's a routine. You probably loved it. Let me see what you've got, because I'm going to give you a routine, because I do think that having a routine... Can you tell me, right, as a mum... Yeah. I don't know what cleanser, toner, moisturiser. I don't know how to sort my face.

39:11Whatever you're going to buy. I'm going to give you an analogy. Yeah. Do you have a wooden chopping board? I do, yes. Okay. How often do you actually just rinse it under the sink versus clean it with a sponge versus put a brillo pad on it? Yeah. There is a difference there. There's a difference. So which ones do you do? Well, I'm a bit of a deep cleaner at all times. Oh, I'm not. I just brush things off. Okay. What if it was meat? oh oh no I'd give it a wash what kind of wash I would probably rinse it under the sink with water yeah would you put that would you put your washing thing with some fairy liquid on it yeah maybe okay so you're a wet wipe girl yeah but you could be an exfoliator yeah all right I try really hard I just use all the wrong products okay so because I do think that's the difference And the thing is, you have lovely skin, but occasionally congestion.

40:04You've always had great skin. But, you know, if you're born with great skin, you do less. And if you're born where at one stage you haven't loved your skin, you try more. I used to have really bad acne. Exactly. I know you did because that's what I did. And that's why when you say you use lots of stuff, you don't know what it does. You're always thinking, will this be the solution? I had to go on a contraceptive pill because my skin was that bad. Yes. Dianette. I went on to that for years and it was recommended to come off that actually. But I remember when I first went on it, my skin went so dry that when I smiled one day, my skin around here just cracked.

40:36Oh, God. Did you then go on a Ractate? Yes. Yes, me too. One more question, slightly random. What's your take on wearing PJs at the school gates? I think that there's a way of wearing them where you do the half tuck. But like literally, you know, running out of bed and going there with your slippers on. No. No. It's like, don't, you could, but is life really so busy that you can't afford to just tweak it? So tuck one bit in, do up the top button, put a brooch on it, throw on a coat just over your shoulders. Get some elastic bands and tuck the pajamas at the bottom in and then put on a flat shoe.

41:13And suddenly you've got a really cool outfit. I love that you're styling up the PJs at the school game. I love that you just made PJs sound so classy, like put a brooch on, put a jacket on. And then you're like, actually, that look really nice. That's some nice PJs. Trini, thank you so much for being here. I feel like there is so much more that we can learn from you. Yeah, thank you. What an icon. Trini everyone, thank you so much for having me. Thank you for having me.

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