Insights from Mischief and eos' culture of effectiveness

0:00Thank you.

0:30bring to people listening and people watching the sort of tips on how you increase the odds of it

0:38Carley Caldas: happening because it's not just a one-time thing it's proven by you guys when you look back on the work maybe i'll start with jeff when i look when you look back at the work what were some of the toughest things you guys had to do even in the earliest stages to get this pointed in the right direction to ensure it was going to work sure hey everybody welcome to can hope you're having fun um yeah i i think the i don't know if it was a hurdle or more an opportunity on on eos but a lot of brands talk about advocacy and they want to try to like stoke up fandom and eos as a brand has this insane almost like fever pitch love of its audience like its audience just loves the brand so much so i think for us the the biggest hurdle or challenge or commitment for us was to how do you take that love that happens in social primarily, like people just rave about it, and how do we learn from it in the right ways and capture it and then translate that into kind of like a brand-centric message?

1:39Carley Caldas: You can't just take what happens in social and then make advertising out of it. That's not how it works. But you could tell there's this insane love for the brand that organically happens in social. So we started there to just try to figure out why and what is happening there, and then how do we capture it and then translate it into more like brand advertising. But that probably wasn't the case, Carly, early on. I mean, you had to sort of ignite that or build it or create opportunities for it to be created. Is that fair to say?

2:08Jeff McCrory: I think we've always had a ton of loyalty to our products and there's an iconic nature to our brand that has always existed. And it's definitely something that we try to honor in the history of our brand and what we do now. but the closeness that Jeff is talking about to the consumer, that's something that's very specific to our team that we really emphasize and make sure that we are set up to be as nimble as possible when we see an opportunity to be able to react.

2:39Carley Caldas: So when you look back to the early days, what do you think was the toughest thing that you guys had to decide upon strategically?

2:46Jeff McCrory: You know, I think we didn't let it be tough. I think for a lot of brands, because the work was based on using consumer language that really had never been used before. I think that that moment, it would have been hard. That would have been a very big hurdle for a lot of brands to use consumer language when you're talking about a shave category, so we're speaking about intimate areas. And I think it would have just been a no-go. And I don't think we jumped over that hurdle. We just sort of knocked it down, and we just decided. Like we made a decision so quick. We were so decisive. And the mission team was so fast that we didn't have to worry about it coming up again because we made the decision.

3:29Jeff McCrory: We stuck with it. It resonated so well with our consumer segment. And then we didn't have to keep, you know, going back and saying, are we going to do this again? Are we going to do this again? We just stuck with the decision that we had made. And that strategy was like really, really consistent. And I think being brave in that moment was really, really important for us to be able to continue to do boundary breaking, really pushing to the edge in work that came afterward.

3:59Carley Caldas: So what does brave mean in that case? Well, I don't know many clients that would approve an idea that was basically bless your cooch. right that's it's an insane uh brave client that can take on that type of what seems like risk but the reason for us that it wasn't risk is literally we knew from the social listening that this is exactly how the audience talks in in this case the category of like personal shave products was so phony it's like shots of perfectly shaved legs side-by-side demos being kind of shaved and the audience had no time for it. That wasn't what they wanted. It's not how they spoke to each other in it.

4:40Carley Caldas: So it kind of gave us the proof we needed to convince everybody in the organization that this isn't a risk. This is exactly what your audience wants. So let's go for it. So it's in retrospect, I mean, when we sit here today, it's pretty easy to say that now the entire category is doing it. But it wasn't the case back then. Were you making a decision to let social sort of define the brand itself? Or were you coming in with a point of view on your brand and then being able to connect it to social?

5:09Jeff McCrory: I think our point of view from the brand was that we're putting the consumer first. And we're letting them lead the stories that make sense for our brand to authentically exist in their lives. Right. And that was a pivot and a switch for us. And it's a little scary as a brand because they're precious. We work so hard on these brands and we want them to be safe. And when you let go and let the consumers really lead the conversations and tell you what your brand narratives are from their point of view, it can be a little scary. But it's so rich and important. And, you know, to your point, really no one in the shave category was not only using consumer language, but actually educating.

5:54Jeff McCrory: I think that's the other thing. It used language to teach people something that was very, very helpful. Like it was uncomfortable if you didn't shave your intimate area in a specific way. And the pain points are literal pain points. It hurt. That's why, you know, that initial piece of content with at the time, you know, like a 17-year-old girl in Florida. And she's like, I want to help you. I want to help you. And I'm going to help you with this brand. And we just saw it as such an important moment to say, hey, we're not going to try, like Jeff said, to repackage this and make it brandy and make it brand safe.

6:28Jeff McCrory: We're going to let it be what it is because it's helpful. It's adding value to the consumer experience. And it's making a good amount of good noise.

6:40Carley Caldas: Yeah. So the journey, because there's different phases to this, there's different creative initiatives. The journey has led to the success. any strategic sort of learnings along the way, course corrections, adjustments that you guys had to make strategically as you moved forward? I mean, because the interesting thing about EOS is it's across a number of different product lines and categories, so it's starting to shave, and it's moved on to an extended line of personal care products. So I think the weird strategic decision is to not be overly kind of precious about the strategy, if that makes sense.

7:18Carley Caldas: There's a voice to EOS that's consistent, but then we figure out the exact right way to express that slightly differently for different product categories because they require different things. So I think EOS is a really perfect example of modern advertising where voice is more important than platform. Whenever I say that, all the planners get all weird and freak out and at me in the comments. Oh, voice is your platform. Yeah, sure, bring it on. But again, because of the way marketing has evolved, brands have to do so many things now or have the opportunity to do so many different things in different channels.

7:55Carley Caldas: And sometimes having a single platform becomes a problem, not a benefit. So the voice of EOS is consistent, but then we express it very differently. It always feels like EOS, but it comes slightly differently. So that flexibility of being true to the brand, but having the flexibility to do lots of different things to appeal to a modern kind of marketing target, I think is kind of one of the key strategic decisions we made, if it makes sense, to not be completely rigid in how we approach the strategy. Right. And then how would you define the voice? I think it's always honest. And then I would say it's always trying to do something that feels like it's the opposite of what the category would do.

8:36Carley Caldas: So it feels like it's the voice of the consumer, but presented in a way that they'll appreciate, not exactly just reflected of what they said in social. And it always feels counter category to a certain degree. That's all I would say.

8:48Jeff McCrory: Yeah, you have made slides on this for me. It should be very approachable. So we consider yourself our brand bestie. We never take ourselves too seriously. We're very aware of what's going on in culture. and we are inviting and welcoming. Everybody's sort of invited to our party and that hopefully you see come through in all of the work that we do.

9:13Carley Caldas: So when you joined originally, I think you and I talked about this before, how do you get to this voice? Because you came from L 'Oreal, you came from other cultures that were different and they in many ways defined the way the category behaved. Were you sort of a rebel in that environment and always knew that there was a better way to do it? Or did you guys create it when you joined EOS?

9:39Jeff McCrory: I love to think of myself as a rebel, so let's say that. That's good. No, I think we had a challenger mindset from the get-go when we joined the brand. And we knew we had such amazing things to work with on the brand that, again, we wanted to honor. But we saw a lot of opportunity to do things differently. and we have just like a wonderful leadership team, very trusting and empowering. And so there was a landscape that we could paint ourselves and we did a lot of testing and learning. I think we're always testing and learning. Everything is a test and learn for us.

10:17Carley Caldas: Tell us about that. What would be an example? In the marketing world, you mean you were testing and learning?

10:21Jeff McCrory: Yeah. Well, as a company, I think we're very nimble. I know we're very nimble. and it's not just the marketing org that feels responsible for connecting with the consumers. It goes all the way down to our product innovation and our supply chain. It's a mindset. We all know what we're here to do and that's to serve our consumers in a very specific way and that comes through in the way that we're able to work. The speed to market that we have for beauty products is really, I think, best in class and it's unique to a company like Eos And we're able to do it because we're small, we're lean, we're privately owned.

10:59Jeff McCrory: We have a lot of resources that we work. We're very scrappy with them. And when you have to be scrappy, it makes you think so much more about your strategy because we just will never be able to outspend the category and the competition. And so we really do have to think about the really specific ways that we can stand out.

11:22Carley Caldas: So when you saw the early work, you first see this. I know that it originated from a tweet. We're going to see it in a second. But were you, was part of what? Because I think with mischief, you can certainly say that it's always going to be original. Was it too goddamn original? I mean, was it, or were you guys like, this is perfect? Did you have to soften the edges? Or did you have to push it even further out?

11:46Jeff McCrory: Not on the shave, yeah, not on the shave work. we have gotten a couple of a couple of ideas that maybe were a little too far out there but were wonderful but on the shape I think there was one brief we had like three options let's just do all three of them and that is what ended up being in the award winning work and so we hit the ground running

12:10Carley Caldas: yeah I was quite shocked that you guys said yes I was maybe slightly worried going into those meetings it's like good lord Well, let's play a short piece of film here, and then we'll come back, and I want to talk about cultures of effectiveness, too. So here is a film from the case study. I'm about to study the secret for how to bless your fucking cooch.

12:35Carley Caldas: It is an absolute blessing, and you can dry shave with this. That's fucking saying something.

12:45you're fucking joking they made cooch blessing cream like literal cooch blessing cream

12:52Carley Caldas: for a smooth ass hoo-ha and the back back is even better the instructions they directly quoted that's my instruction i want to come back to the idea of culture so um one of the great things about Mischief is you sort of have created this whole world inside of Mischief. There's values, there's principles. Tell us about how you got to that, because you guys are the fully formed version of a creative and effectiveness culture that's, I mean, many ways unmatched. Give people who aren't there yet some tips on how to get there. So I would say, yeah, like at Mischief, the agency was formed with a pretty clear understanding of what our purpose was around the type of work we wanted to do.

13:43Carley Caldas: And yes, we wanted to do very creative work because we believe that that is the engine of effectiveness. But we were from birth very, very disciplined about ensuring that the work we do drives business. We're not in the business of making noise for noise sake. We're in the business of driving, literally, clients' brands and creating value. And those two things are not opposed. They absolutely are not. Greg is probably the best planner in the world. He just happens to be a better creator. You're right. So he understands that world really well. He reads planning periodicals, for God's sakes. He's knee-deep in it.

14:20Carley Caldas: So it comes from— He listens to our show all the time. Yes, he loves it. So again, and then Kevin and Bianca, same thing. They really understand that if we get strategy right, it enables the creatives to get to the right places. And again, none of that should be a limiter to creativity. It actually helps it. And we're not crazy process-oriented around it. It's just I think collectively we all believe that that was the absolute right thing to do. And there's no compromise in it. It just felt like the right thing to do. Because also we've been in the industry for a while now. We've seen it not work the other way.

14:58Carley Caldas: So this just felt like it seems like the simplest thing in the world, but it's really hard to action. You need the right kind of group of people that really share those values and really are supportive of each other. And then are actually really good at their jobs to do that. That doesn't hurt. So it never felt like a weird thing that we had to struggle to get to. It just seemed very natural for us from the get-go. So was it equally natural for you guys? Are there examples of where there's sort of sticky points typically come up inside an organization where you have to ensure that things are effective ultimately?

15:29Carley Caldas: Are there tips you might have for people on how to get to that place?

15:33Jeff McCrory: Yeah, I would say if you're only thinking about effectiveness at the end of a campaign when you're measuring, you have missed the moment. You need to be thinking about it in the beginning when you're having your conversations with strategy, with your partners, or you're just strategizing internally on your own. And having a really clear insight, and not convoluted. It doesn't have to be this huge thing. It's simple. A simple insight. And knowing how you're going to measure, whether or not this worked. And you don't have to have a lot of measurement resources. There's so many different ways that you can, if you don't have the budgets for it, there's so many different ways that you can measure impact.

16:16Jeff McCrory: And then sticking to, aligning on that strategy and sticking to it. Going back for us, it was like putting the consumer first, putting the consumer first, and just holding yourself as a filter as you're going through all of your work, making sure that that's there. The other thing I would say on our team, and we are a lean team, is that it's a very safe place for all of your ideas, no matter what stage they're at. If you have an insight or you saw something that you think was inspiring, but you're not exactly sure what to do with it yet, you don't need to wait until you have a 20-page deck to have it all figured out.

16:52Jeff McCrory: And I'm coming to you with the perfect plan. It's like, just bring a sprinkle of an idea. And it's the same when we work with mischief, too. We're like, we're not exactly sure. This is interesting to us. Is it interesting to you? Do you think that we should work on this? And we have that internally. And so it's just a very open, collaborative space. and sometimes you have people on the team who are leading a creative idea. Sometimes you have somebody who's leading the strategy. Sometimes there's somebody who will come and be like, let me validate that with the data. We wear a lot of different hats and it's really nice because we've got a great team and we like collaborating with each other and we like helping everybody's ideas come to fruition.

17:28Jeff McCrory: It's a very like, how can we make this happen? Why is this right for us? Instead of, there's a lot of organizations I think where it's like, why shouldn't we do that? It's not going to do this, or there's so many reasons why not to do things. And we always take the approach of like, why should we do this? Let's help so-and-so prove what they want to do is the right move.

17:47Carley Caldas: So with you guys, you've also got these principles. I mean, I wrote a few of them down. So one of them is, what would you do if you weren't afraid? I mean, that's probably one of our most potent ones, I would say. Because I do think that, unfortunately, there's a lot of fear in the industry you're scared that the idea won't be right you're scared that you're maybe not good enough to do your job you're scared the client's going to get mad and leave and and fear is uh fear is just a terrible place to create from so allowing people to just relax their shoulders and not worry about that and just create a safe space for dangerous ideas like just tell we we've hired you because you're brilliant and then we work really hard to create an environment where you don't feel the pressure of fear so that we just allow your natural brains to come out and then we'll figure it out together man.

18:37Carley Caldas: Progress over perfection and we'll figure it out. So let's talk about a couple of the pieces of this campaign because for those who are not necessarily familiar with it, it's pretty crazy good. So it starts off with bless your fucking cooch. It then goes on to vaginastics. Pubes for the planet. That was a big one.

18:57Jeff McCrory: That was really cool.

18:59Carley Caldas: Which is the highlight? Tell us about the highlights.

19:03Jeff McCrory: You go.

19:03Carley Caldas: I mean, come on. Pubes for the planet. I love this.

19:06Jeff McCrory: I love them all. I love them all so much for different reasons. Vaginastics is so funny and so true. You have to just contort yourself into certain positions. I can only imagine. Yes, if you're shaving in that area. So I just love it. And the approach that we took, it was so easy to understand. And Pubes for the Planet was great because sometimes I think back and, you know, new people will come onto the team. And I'm like, you know, we push boundaries and we'll say, oh, is that too scary? I'm like, we had people mail their pubic hair to us. And then we created the Pube Garden in San Francisco.

19:42Jeff McCrory: First ever, maybe last. I'm not sure. Yeah, we worked with this wonderful organization, Matter of Trust. You should look them up. They have an incredible mission. but it was yeah it was fun people really enjoyed it and they learned something about like the environmental impact of reusing and repurposing your discarded hair

20:04Carley Caldas: I think the bless your fucking cooch thing will go down in my career as one of the best greatest things I'll ever have worked on and because it just it was insane this started with a tweet I think or a TikTok and then literally a text from so young to I think maybe Carrie or Bianca and it was like we've seen this thing popping up in social what should we do about it and then it's just the next day the creatives had this idea what's basically an instruction manual for how to shave yourself so we should just put the instructions on the bottle and then the speed at which you guys were able to actually create the bottle and then once it started to pop off create a whole line and get it out into the market.

20:45Carley Caldas: Again, it's just, I think it will go down in history as one of the best examples of real-time reaction and then taking advantage of social in a way that really is effective and drives real business. Doesn't just create soft metrics, but drives actual sales. It was so ridiculous, but so perfect.

21:03Jeff McCrory: And we all had to get really comfortable saying poosh and emailing poosh. I'm like, am I going to get flagged by IT?

21:10Carley Caldas: Yeah, my search history was a disaster for a while. I remember in one of the conversations we had a while ago, you brought up a point that I've always remembered. You said that, and I'm paraphrasing you, that mischief had to prove that its work was effective. It had to demonstrate to the industry. Because in the early days, your work was so different that it was easy for people to dismiss it as, ah, it's this or it's that. tell us about what was that journey you made a very deliberate choice yeah i mean i the talent at mischief is world-class so we never doubted the creative chops of the place but we needed to again for us to be able to do that type of work the only way you get to do it long term is if you can prove to clients that it's valuable and that it actually drives their business so us being really intentional about the strategies that we put in place being very disciplined around the measurement plan about how we're going to actually define success and then prove it out all of those things unlock your ability to do that type of work they don't get in the way of it it's actually it's your permission slip to be creative so yeah and we've just been really again we it's the type of agency we want to be it's the type of work we want to do so continuously and constantly proving that it's effective is the only way you get to do that well number one congratulations for uh not just one, but two Iridium Awards.

22:34Carley Caldas: Brilliant work. Congratulations to both of you. Jeff McCrory, Chief Strategy Officer at Mischief, and Carly Caldas is SVP Marketing and Creative for EOS Products. Congratulations. Well done. Cheers, Paul. Thank you. Thank you.