Starting & Formulating a Supplement Company: Operators Build (E3)

26:20So we want people to, again, kind of slowly calm down and go into a gentle sleep without just being knocked out. And then they're all groggy and, you know, and then the kids can't really take it because you're worried that they're going to basically OD in on it.

26:34Matt Bertulli:You have been listening to us talk for years about building nine-figure durable goods brands, Hexclad, Ridge, Simple Modern, Pila. When we sat down to build Winks, there was never a question it had to be a subscription brand. And being the veterans we are, we could work with anyone, but we decided to work with Skiyo to build Winks. Working with the team over at Skiyo has been awesome. We get to see all of the stuff that the fastest growing CPG brands are actually doing to acquire more subscribers and keep them longer. My favorite example of this has been incentivizing new customers to go from a monthly subscription to a quarterly subscription right after their first purchase, but before they get their first order.

27:13Matt Bertulli:The team at Skio has been sharing insights on how much in-portal flexibility to give subscribers, when to change frequency, when to offer product swaps, when to do gifting, what rewards should look like, what is cancel flow optimization. The list is freaking endless and they have shared it all. They have been incredible to work with. They are bringing so much value to this partnership. It almost feels a little unfair. If you run a subscription brand, you should be talking with the team over at Skiyo. They know their stuff. Cool, man. No, I'm super excited. I drank it, thought it was good, thought it tastes good, but I'm already such a perfect sleeper.

27:46How can I figure out if it's good or not? So I trust you guys on that. Yeah, we need to do more for the taste and the mouthfeel. Of course, taste is so subjective, right? And Americans tend to have a little bit more of that sweet tooth. So I always defer to other samplers because for me, I'm like, this is plenty sweet. But Americans like it sweeter, so maybe 10 % of the sweetness. So with this one, and that's just the way powders are. You got to go through a number of iterations. And these benchtop samples, right, these are literally made with like a hand mixer versus the scale up when there's giant Bosch machines, for example, that are really going to blend them into a fine powder.

28:27So we've had to, and minerals tend to leave some sediment, calcium, magnesium. So one of the things I did was guide the manufacturer to be like, look, if we can't get it, because people are not going to want a bunch of sediment in their mouth, they're not going to want a bunch of sediment in their cup. So if that's still an issue, then I recommended them to a supplier that actually makes minerals that are more dissolvable in liquids versus the ones that they were using. So they believe that upon scale up, it shouldn't be an issue. But let's see what happens. So yeah, the taste is always an issue.

29:01Taste, mouthfeel, smell, the look. I thought it was a good amount of grape, but it needs to be more because it's kind of like, well, there's a little bit of grape. Maybe you want kids to take it. You want it to be a little bit more grapey. Yeah, I think the only thing was like for me, it was very much more like a fruit punch, like very, very mild. So I think we'll do a little bit of flavor testing. But I like premium. The whole idea is we're selling these to upscale Midwest moms or whatever, right? So I like premium. I like it's safe for the whole family. I like that we're focused on efficiency.

29:37Case study is really helping ads. Dude, it's going to be great. Super excited. For us, it's really just timeline. We have to get the branding down. We have to get that stuff down. I think we're getting really close and then trying to launch on Q1 next year.

29:53Matt Bertulli:Before we go any further, I want to do a quick intro to the next section that you're going to hear. This is all about what does it take to turn a formula into a supplement company? Who's going to make it once we have our formula? This is about the contract manufacturer or commands is what they might be called. How do you make sure that every batch is what it says it is? Quality control, good manufacturing processes. How much do you invest in that upfront? That's a great question answer. How much do you have to commit to before you've sold a single unit? This is the minimum order quantity thing again, very important to get right.

30:26Matt Bertulli:And then what does it actually cost to get the product made? What's left over after it's sold? So pricing, startup costs, profit margins, gross margins, shift margins, all of that good stuff. We got to answer that. And then finally, how do you turn one formula into a whole product line? Should we actually be building a supplement line? What are the marketing strategies around single SKU versus multi SKU? We're going to go into all of that in the next segment.

30:54Yeah. And there's still, you know, for my work, you know, like for example, things need to be written in structure, function, compliant language. So you can't say insomnia, you can talk about occasional sleeplessness. The trademark licensing agreements will need to be coordinated with the, with the branded ingredients like Sensoryl and the Afron and and the alpha wave theanine because that's part of their compliance is that you review their trademark license agreement, you abide by them, and then they'll give you the high-resolution logos and the verbiage that needs to go on the packaging. Then there's also considerations of whether you guys want this to be listed as a proprietary blend.

31:34The FDA doesn't love it, but they haven't banned it yet as far as proprietary blend. And, you know, so I've worked with brands. What they'll do is they'll list maybe half the formula out and then the other half is proprietary blend. And, you know, most customers, if they really want to know, and you can kind of tease out whether it's a mole from another company trying to steal your formula. But, you know, if they're that lame and they have their own problems, then you can divulge, oh, there's this many milligrams of passion flower or whatever it is. but almost all the ingredients are organic and they're certainly high level.

32:13No artificial flavorings, colorings, additives, even the bitter blockers of tastemasters are all natural. So no synthetics are in here. One of the most interesting things I think that's been true of the world, and I think it even applies here, is that it's really easier than ever before to go out and copy something. This is certainly true. Like I saw water bottles, so it's very easy for somebody if they want to create a water bottle that looks very similar to one of the ones we sell and source it for a similar cost. I think in the consumable world, this is pretty true also. And it really, like, the magic is in the marketing and the distribution of the thing.

32:52So it's probably less important than ever before that you have to be super secretive about a formula. I'm sure there's groups out there that could deconstruct almost any formula fairly rapidly. uh it's you know like we're coming from a generation where coca-cola wouldn't allow all the people that knew the formula to be on the same plane at the same time because if it went down nobody knew how to make coke and i just don't think we live in that world anymore because i think i think that the the making of the product is becoming more commoditized it's a judgment of what you put in the product and how you distribute it and how you market it which is where the magic is.

33:30Yeah. Yeah. The, the, the world that we live in, um, you can't patent a natural substance is again, you just can't do that. So that's where these brand ingredients come out because you can patent an extraction method. You can patent a particular constituent profile that you do. Those can all be patentable and then you do your studies. So it is certainly still illegal. Say you guys just put everything on the label and it's fair game. And then you come across something that's similar or even the exact, of course, you can definitely assume because you're like, look, this is our release date and this is your release date.

34:04So the FDA, now that it's being somewhat, not being, it's currently, it's dismantled. Enforcement, who knows, right? As far as, and they've never come down with an official statement upon proprietary blend. They're just don't like it. You just do your due diligence and right. It comes out of marketing. And then the product speaks for itself because it's going to work, you know, and there's no tolerance. There's no dependency on it. You know, that's again, one of my strengths and advantages that I've used all these ingredients on patients for 15 years, not necessarily together because I put this formula together, but I know what they'll do.

34:41I know what, how they'll react. Of course, you'll have some outliers that someone's like, oh, and it's a scoop, which is nice because then you can titrate it. Like that's too much for me. I'm going to do half a scoop. I could use a double scoop. So I went through and made sure part of my role is to protect the company from lawsuits, litigation, FDA. So they're all safe even if someone wanted to do two scoops. It's still very, very safe. There's no toxicity doses. They could drink the whole bag and the most thing that would happen is they'd vomit all over the place. But that's also a regulatory thing.

35:17If someone goes to the hospital, say they go to the ER, you know, and they have an adverse, serious adverse event, which is different than adverse events, then technically that has to be filed with the FDA via MedWatch. But if you're suggest, if someone takes more than your suggested use, the onus is on the consumer. We didn't tell you to take that much. That's your fault. You know? So, but even if someone wanted to just take a bunch, it's still very, very safe. and it's not like someone would go into renal failure because they took another dog just got into the bag you know and just ate a whole bunch of it the worst is going to happen is a bunch of distress and some will be very very sleepy you know whatever well todd you're gonna crush in ads man we're gonna get you some good he usually wears glasses too he usually has glasses on well no i got when you guys pull up your screen i got my old man reading glasses i'm like wait what is that.

36:11This is safe. I promise. I endorse it. I'm getting back into the weeds. One of the things I'm probably the rustiest on is email. I'm super excited to be using OmniSend. They're using them on Winx. We're AI-pilled. We are using it to do everything. I'm running most of our email program from Claude and Codex using the MCP, and it's awesome. We also have email, SMS, and pop-ups all in one place. We have all of our flows, welcome series. It's all talking to each other. I love the platform. The analytics are really good. I highly recommend it, especially if you're in the position the Wings is in. New brand starting out.

36:44But if you're on a different platform and you're paying too much and you want to switch, they will do the migration completely for you. No lost data, no lost list. It takes only five days start to finish. And they are giving our listeners 30 % off the first three months. Go to omnisend.com slash nine operators to try it out for yourself. I'm curious how about that like you know take us through your perspective from a doctor you you know you mentioned um you know top five biggest pain pain or problems that that people face um you also you know we know the market we know the as Mike asked the question about you know the studies around sleep the interest around sleep that you know um we understand sleep better than ever because of things like aura and whoop and you know look at Sean he's he's a you know he's a superhero on sleep.

37:33Most people aren't. And as we evaluated the marketing opportunity, although there's quote unquote sleep supplements out there, a lot of brands have a line of magnesium or have a line of recovery. There hasn't been many brands, if any, that have actually built a brand around sleep. And our concept and thought was, there's a gap in the market.

37:58There's a gap morning hygiene. So, you know, our parents grew up and they didn't go to the gym. Um, you know, they had a coffee, read the newspaper, went to work. Our, our generation grew up where we had supplements and protein shakes and went to the gym. And now the future generation, they aren't even drinking. They're, they're focused more on sleep hygiene more than ever. And so there's a huge opportunity. I think that we understand sleep more than ever. Um, but most of sleeping, you know, aids out there are either pharmaceuticals or they're the, you know, over-the-counter NyQuil's, you know, or they're just strictly magnesium.

38:32So from a doctor perspective, like, obviously you helped formulate, you know, the current formula, but how do you see this? Like, you know, speaking to doctors and family physicians and you name it, like families, kids, you name it. We believe that there's a, you know, it's very marketable, but how do you see the landscape of sleep supplements? How do you see the landscape of what do you get recommended? How do you recommend, you know, to families and kids that are having sleep issues? Like, You're not telling them, you know, to put a concoction like this together. And now if this is available, like, you know, we feel like this is a go-to.

39:05But, you know, what's your perspective on the overall competitive landscape? Those are good questions, good points you bring up. Because even what do most people when they go to the doctor, yeah, a lot of times they write a script. But they'll just say, take Benadryl. The main ingredient of Benadryl is diphenhydramine, right? It's an H1 receptor antagonist. So it makes people sleep. The problem with Benadryl or any of these diphenhydramine products, which is the main ingredient in Tylenol PM and Advo PM and all those PMs, is that, one, you get intolerance and addiction potential. But also, the longer you take a diphenhydramine and the more potent it is and the higher the amount, the more likely you have increased rates of dementia.

39:45So if you look at the studies, interview, honestly, it's about 10 % to 83 % increased risk of getting dementia. I don't know about you, but if I have something that's going to give me an 80 % increased risk of being demented later in life, I'm sure as hell going to stop it. So patients will come in and they're usually on these and they're like, I've been on this for 25 years. And I mean, I can't take it. I'm like, do you want me to get you off of it? And that has to be tapered. And they're like, yeah. So and I see a lot of these formulas, these sleep formulas that you mentioned, they're either not enough to really do anything or they cheat.

40:17they have like window dressings of the herbs, a little bit of poorly absorbed magnesium. And then they just throw in a whole bunch of melatonin. And I'm like, well, that's kind of, for me, that's misleading the consumer and also not doing that. But you're just charging a lot for melatonin with some pixie dust in there. And then you're going to throw in some five HTP. And then, which is a precursor of serotonin. And you don't know what meds they're on. I just don't, I have concerns with safety. And the medications, again, And the people that are seeing me, they're the non-responders typically, right?

40:48These are people who don't respond well to the meds. They don't tolerate the meds. Or they're like, the meds work, but man, I cannot. I feel so non-functional until about noon the next day.

41:02Matt Bertulli:Most AI tools right now are all promise and no delivery. You know exactly what I am talking about. Super fancy launch videos. This is why I'm loving what Rich Panel is doing. They have AI and support smashed together, made it practical, made it useful, made it valuable to brands today, not on some future promise. And instead of asking you to spend weeks writing prompts and uploading help docs and babysitting, they flipped the whole script. Their AI builds your support team for you and everything it needs. I've watched it. It works. It's freaking amazing. RichPenal even guarantees 50 % of your support volume will be automated by AI within 30 days or your money back.

41:39Matt Bertulli:I call that a no-brainer offer. If you are interested, go to richpanel.com slash demo, not for some generic demo, but to actually book a call and watch them build your actual support team. You know, I can't, you know, this is not working for me or I have really bad nightmares, but it's like, would I rather not sleep or I want some nightmares? So I feel that a formula like this is it's because of its safety profile, the efficacy. and we could always, you know, we've discussed this internally, Curtis and Matt and I, that let's just wait for some customer feedback. Do people want it stronger? Do a line extension.

42:16You can easily make this stronger by different ingredients or even just increasing some of the more sedative herbs in there, the botanicals, like passionflower, without it being really nasty tasting. so when people come in to see me children you know adolescents my practice is 70 percent united states 30 percent global i have two week olds one day olds all the way 100 year olds and they talk to me about their insomnia it's like okay so how long has it been going on you know situational sleep hygiene are you eating you know all these things because i'll one of the first questions i ask people is uh when do you eat dinner especially people who say they wake up at like two or three in the morning and they have trouble going back to sleep.

43:01And they'll say, oh, especially now that keto is so popular, intermittent fasting, they'll say, oh, I like six o 'clock. And I'm like, well, that's why. The reason you wake up at three is you basically, your body went into a fasting state for nine hours. And when you, your body, as far as like, say the advent of electricity, right? What, maybe 200, 150 years, we've had light. We used to go to sleep when the sun went down and we came up when it got up. So people are staying up really late. They got their phones. They're not eating and they're just basically their circadian rhythm is all messed up.

43:31Yeah. So this formula is to help is that not just the quick fix or the band-aid help people sleep. It's actually more long term with the cortisol regulation and that's where the phosphatidylserine is in there. And I put sunflower so you get a hypoallergenic claim versus soy. So phosphatidylserine protects the brain. It also competes with cortisol binding. So it will lower your cortisol slowly over time overnight. So it'll last longer. And then again, it's a non-GMO sunflower source. So I think that in my opinion, knowing for 15 years of practice and then formulating for the dietary supplement industry for the last 13 years, I don't really know of anything quite like this that is robust, kind of all encompassing without just, hey, let's throw 50 ingredients in there.

44:21and let's hope for the best. It's very purposeful, very methodical. And I think it's a great thing to talk around parents because usually, especially we all have young kids, kids not sleeping, mom and dad aren't sleeping. That's just the nature of the beast. So it's like, even if you're Sean and you're a great sleeper, my wife and my three brothers and my dad, nothing likes them. My oldest is like that. He's 10 and you could drop a brick on him and he's just like, oh. but he didn't sleep for the first eight years of his life. So now I think he's making up for it, but it's like giving kids anything you can help them sleep.

44:59So even like a family routine, everybody has their little drink mix before they go to bed. Exactly. You know, I, I just love that idea when you guys brought that to me, you're like, we want something the family can take. And I was like, Oh, that's sweet. And then powder. And that's where we started the ball rolling and get the creative juices flowing. So, yeah, I think to your point, when patients come in, I'm like, all right, what are you doing? Sleep hygiene. What kind of sleep dysfunction do you have? Who else in the house is not sleeping? You know, all of these things. So you got to do the foundational things, which is, I'm sure is part of education that Winx will be doing.

45:36It's not just here to take the summit. Here's all the podcast is part of that, right? You know, here's education around, you know, sleep routine and getting people to sleep. We're really good when our kids are young about being militant, draconian about sleep, right? Sleep routine. Got to go to bed at eight. But then as adults, we're all over the place. We haven't, you know, we still need to get sleep routine too. So I think that this will be just a great thing and it's an easily countable product because it's not overly complicated where it's got some bizarre items. with the formula as it is now does it i something you said made me think of this but

46:15Matt Bertulli:is it something that uh i guess compounds so like you know the first night you take it won't have the same as good of an effect as maybe like the 15th night that you take it so like does it need to kind of build up and this is is it like creatine or like where like you need it to like build or is this sort of a you're going to start to see it on day one you know that that's a good question. So the way, the rationale of the formula, this comes from a marketing standpoint, right? A consumer standpoint. I just want to know how to sell it. Yeah. So consumers, right. I don't think you'll have a problem with it and you won't have a problem with repeat.

46:49So consumers, they want, they think everything should work like a drug, right? They want it to be fixed yesterday, even though they've been sick for 30 years, they want it fixed yesterday. So I wanted to formulate something that will work within 30 minutes. Like you're going to feel it, you know, you're going to start feeling the effects, but also over time you will have that compounded reaction where you're like, well, I don't start, I'm not feeling as amped up. Like this cortisol dysregulation, it's classic. People are waking in the morning. They get going around 11 or 12, two or three, they get a dip, and then they start waking back up at eight.

47:24That's an inverse cortisol curve. Cortisol should be high around 5 a.m. at its highest and then slowly go down. You'll see people, and you can do salivary testing. you know it's also subjective just asking them but yeah the more you take it the more it's going to work over time where you're like i'm getting better sleep i forgot to even take it last night this is great and but it will work on the first night and then subsequent nights yeah you'll definitely get more of a compounded effect over time that's great sean that's a pretty good bit of info oh dude this is gonna crush on ads it's gonna be awesome

48:01Matt Bertulli:i'm very excited that's that makes me very excited uh retention especially like that's going to be great and then you know everybody's got their devices now the aura rings and this and that and um so they can get their own data yeah i mean you guys will have no problem people can even like give you testimonials even on your own you know your own um employees that you're like we tried on ourselves and look what we got these are our results over the past 15 days here's day sean would be a terrible um sample size but the rest of it people who don't sleep well right they're like i was at a 50 day 15 i'm at an 80 right um so sean doesn't have kids yeah i was gonna say if he's like i sleep great but he's got that big uh bear behind him yeah i i have a nephew and he really likes it so he doesn't sleep when the nephew comes into town and the nephew's gonna be here for three weeks um working on having kids but dude i mean no my my sleep score, that's going to be one of the hooks for the ads.

48:58I'm just going to scroll through my sleep score. People are going to be like, damn, how do I be like that guy? I'm going to be like, you got to take Winx. So I was all in on AI at Jones Road, but it's really hard to get large teams of people to change. But on Winx, I don't have teams because we're trying to keep OPEX as lean as possible. So we're going all in on AI and Runeth is a big part of that. Runeth and Motion are a sponsor of the show and we've been partnering closely with them to help run Winx day to day. It is the AI brain for our whole team. We are shipping as much creative as we can, as many angles as we can.

49:32We have it plugged in to all of our accounts, our email account, Shopify, Northbeam, all of our analytics. So it's got the whole thing. It is our AI creative strategist and much more than that. It's really our AI coworker. If we use it, HexCloud uses it, Jones Road uses it. It is the best AI brain for e-com brands on the planet. If you don't use things like this, I seriously think you're going to fall behind. I highly recommend it. So go to runnith.com and book a strategy session. Just mention the operator sent you and you'll get$1 ,000 in credits when you sign up. Yep. Yep. And, you know, and we can, as we go along, right, again, part is my role is protection of the company is when we start talking about what you can and cannot say in marketing and influencers and all that to protect you.

50:17And then what's out of my league, I have regulatory people we can consult and all the way up to an FDA attorney. If we're really wondering what ends up happening mostly in the United States is that the FDA isn't your biggest fear, unless you're flagrant. Like we're going to spike this with ambient, right? That's not the problem. Most of the time you guys are doing your due diligence. Everything's fine. You get a warning letter from the FDA. It's a, you know, 483 that says you have 15 days to either substantiate this claim or to check this. Because even the co-man we're using is all GMP, NSF, blah, blah, blah.

50:53It's the plaintiff attorneys, right? They just troll the internet all day looking for this kind of crap to sue people on. And they do it. This is what they do for a living. So you would avoid things like that. That's easy, right? You just avoid disease claims, things that are unsubstantiated. That's easy, right, to protect you. It's worth your$300 to have a regulatory person quickly review an ad you want to go out, right, versus paying the fines later. My biggest question is, like, how do we, on the evidence side, kind of get the most bang for our buck? You know, like, I know you can do sleep studies.

51:30Sean's going to be leading up the marketing effort. Obviously, having you and testimonial from you with your expertise is going to be huge. will, I'm sure, pull in some UGC user-generated testimonials. But also, the more that we can be clinically proven, scientifically backed to help you sleep better, the better. So how do we do that as inexpensively as possible, I think is my question. So for now, what you can do is it's just fancy wordsmithing. So right now, you cannot say that the formula is clinically studied or clinically validated because that means you've studied the formula. But the ingredients that and clinically validated, which all of them have.

52:08You could say clinically validated ingredients, doctor formulated product. You can use, one of the reasons I like to use branded ingredients is because it's not borrowed science. So you can actually leverage their own statistics. You could say, in this study, no, it's arbitrary, right? 53 % of people had improved sleep with blah, blah, blah. You can totally say all those things. And then you just have to reference them. And then why this is, I don't know, but from the United States regulatory standpoint, you just have to leave the title of the article. So you have the author, the journal, you know, and when it was published, but no title.

52:49And part of the rationale for that is, I mean, that's what you have to do legally, is that if in the title they compare the natural ingredient to a drug, the way the FDA sees that is that you are now making a drug claim. So you just leave that off there, you know. And just for context, we have three branded ingredients. So we can leverage all of those studies on those three branded ingredients, correct? Yeah. And then just how you word them. Same with magnesium. And so the way it works from a structure function compliant way is that you can legally make claims that are not in human, double blind, randomized, placebo controlled trials if they're mechanism claims.

53:31So you could talk about how, even though this isn't a therapeutic dose, you just want to talk about how magnesium works. You can totally say that. But if you want to start getting into structure function, like how it actually helps people sleep, you can say, and then, you know, this is how it does it, this is how it does it. And I can supply all those studies and the wording and, you know, all of that. But, yeah, really when you get into this, like, FTC compliant structure function language, it really is an art, right? To be able to wordsmith it legally, also the consumer understands it. And fortunately for us, the wording that you can have lies in a big gray area with the FTC.

54:14It's a very large gray area you can operate. So it always depends on how risk adverse you are or aren't. If you're like, no, we actually, Matt's like, yeah, I feel comfortable leaning to the right of being less conservative and making some bold claims because we can still substantiate. And again, the worst the FDA does is send you a letter and all you got to do is like, here's the studies. They'll tell you what they want for you to, or they'll say, remove it. They don't do anything.

54:38Matt Bertulli:I'm very comfortable in the gray. Yeah. Yeah. One foot in jail, one foot out. Versus some companies I've worked with, they're so far conservative. The way they want things written. I'm like, this doesn't even make any sense because now it's so constipated that you're like, I don't even know what that means. I mean, what is it? What does this product even do now? Because it's so overly conservative. So yeah, from a marketing standpoint, and plus, you guys are think you're going to get a like a sachet or pouch, which gives you much more real estate, right things on there without it being jumbled and cumbersome.

55:17And then the website can go more into depth, your ads, right? Those get more terse and succinct. And so I'm not the most creative. oh no we got that on this yeah yeah we got we got that on on this so we're good yeah yeah you put your brains behind it and then we'll uh yeah you know i'm excited i think this is going to do really well for a lot of people i think you guys will really well and it'll be sweet awesome well we know you got to jump todd thanks for uh obviously joining today but also all the work that you've been doing um you know great to introduce you to the rest of the guys and and uh you know uh We're looking forward to obviously getting Frank is sending out that third round of samples.

55:59Hopefully next week he had to get a couple more ingredients. And so we should have the third sample of the grape coming out next week, which we can give feedback on and and kind of go from there. Yeah. And if that gets approved, they are 12 to 14 week lead time. So but then that's for them to make it. Then it has to be tested. So that's going to be like three weeks. so in theory I mean this could still launch at the end of the year but you guys could always build a momentum be like dude it's right you know pre-orders blah whatever you know you guys are the market experts so um if what I would just hate is it comes back and it's crap and now we're like dude now we got to go to iteration 4.0 and 5.0 and and then it starts to just kind of go in my experience it starts to go in circles we were like well now we're actually back to like how bad it was the first time and it gets irritating.

56:54So yeah. But no, we should rock it. I appreciate the invite guys. And a pleasure meeting you at least virtually and we'll catch up soon. Thank you, Todd. Appreciate your time. Thanks guys.

57:03Matt Bertulli:Have a good weekend. Okay. That's a wrap on episode three of Operators Build. You heard us talk about what makes a real supplement company and not just a good idea, not just another private label product. And look, one of the things that's important if you're going to go into building a supplement company is you need to understand what the FDA is. What does it function in this whole business? What is the DSHEA, the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act? And really, compliance, this idea of compliance when you're starting a supplement company, it is as important as the formula itself because everything you do to go to market with a supplement hinges on you understanding what you can and cannot say.

57:44Matt Bertulli:That's it for today. Hope you enjoyed the episode. As always, if you liked it, please subscribe, follow, comment, ask us any questions. We are so happy to help. See you next time.