EMQs: Is Labour the new party of the monarchy?

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1:32Powered by AT &T Business, built to work. Get today at business.att.com.

1:54taking this supplement what do i do about my bursitis and uh how are your estrant here joe if i wanted to listen to this where would i find it wherever you get your podcast that's exactly where you'd find it you can also watch on youtube i need to go to turkey quick dig it every week every week for the rest of time yes okay good the chancellor of the exchequer getting a lesson from the shadow chancellor how to balance the books. It's like getting a lesson from Dracula and how to look after a bloodbath.

2:26Ed Balls: Ed Balls. A steady as she goes budget. What kind of ship does he think he's on, the Titanic? Welcome to EMQs from Political Currency with Ed Balls and George Osborne.

2:44Ed Balls: So hello and welcome to Ex-Minister's Questions, EMQs, coming to you this week from North London and also from St. John's Wood, Lords, comes in from the pavilion end, bowls, Crawley, steps back, leaves it. Crawley's still on 80, not out. Ducker, 80, not out. 38 for nought after 12.1 overs. Sir Raj is actually bowling very well today. Anyway, so, George, has your cake arrived yet? I don't know what you're talking about. What is that gibberish? Cricket! Cricket!

3:20Ed Balls: George is there for the strawberries and the champagne but you know because he thinks he's at Wimbledon it won't be that it'll be ham and lettuce salad The last time I was in Lourdes was years ago when I came with my father to the World Cup final Do you actually know the rules and everything? I do know the rules and that was Ben Stokes' amazing kind of fight back and we won the World Cup I have to say that was the most exciting single sporting event I've ever been to. And I remember on the same day that we had, you know, very lucky, the option of going to the men's final at Wimbledon. My dad was really skeptical we were going to go to the cricket because we were more of a tennis family and a cricket family.

4:03Why are we turning down and going to the Wimbledon final? But we made the right choice. It was just the most brilliant day. And I haven't been back since, so I'm quite excited. And if we stop blabbering on, I'm going to actually go and watch some of this cricket.

4:14Ed Balls: If you've been at Norwich Middlesbrough in the playoff final at Wembley in 2016, you might have thought that was the most exciting sporting event you'd ever been to. But we need to get on with EMQ so you can go and find out whether Crawley and Duckett are still going to be batting when you get to lunch. We're going to start with our first question. Are they playing for England or India? Joke.

4:39Ed Balls: Speechless. James from Streatham.

5:11well actually should i have a go with this first james it's a good question i think it's true that quite often in the labor party there is more of an interest that in the monarchy and in some of the traditions and the heraldry of the british state than there is in the conservators because there's a kind of element of conservatism which is quite sort of radical anti-institutional anti-elite if you think of the sort of Thatcher revolution and if you think of the Brexiteer argument about the blob and the establishment and you know the like so um my own personal view is I never really thought very much about the monarchy until I became chancellor I had I had almost no interaction with the royal family at all and then as chancellor I suddenly found myself as treasurer of the royal household one of the treasurers of the royal household part of the job and dealt directly with the Queen, and that was kind of an enormous sort of privilege.

6:08I always got to wonder whether it was a bit overstated, the kind of role of the monarch as like an advisor to the Prime Minister. I mean, up to a point. I always thought that people made more of those audiences between the Prime Minister and the monarch than I saw in reality. All that said, I did also think that when Elizabeth died, sadly, and that incredible long reign passed, that Prince Charles was going to really struggle to garner the same respect and to play the same role and that the world had moved on. But I was wrong about that. I think he has established a particular role for himself, as we were discussing on the main podcast.

6:49And I think therefore, Prince William will be able to do the same and his son, Prince George, will in due course as well. I don't think there's any, there's just absolutely no appetite in this country to open up the question of who else might be the head of state. And the idea that, you know, we would have a sort of, you know, some liberal Democrat emerge as president of the country, because that's the person anyone could agree on, I think is quite unlikely. So I'm not sure I'll be alive to see it. Well, I mean, I hope I have a long life, but I would wish a long life too on William and Charles.

7:30So maybe I'll never see a King George, but I like the name.

7:33Ed Balls: I think there will definitely be a King George for the reasons George said. And it's partly because we have a settled relationship between politics, parliament and the monarch now. And it's a relationship in which the monarch in these generations and previous generations seeks to play no role in the political process and very much reflects the view of the government of the day. And I know that kind of anti-monarchists won't believe this, but I don't think there is any evidence of monarchs seeking to influence the direction the government takes in an anti-democratic way. but they play a really important role both in the stability of our society and in our foreign policy as we saw in recent days with the state visit of President Macron.

8:23Ed Balls: There is also no doubt in my mind in Labour there is a strongly pro-monarch tradition based upon a kind of deep respect. I know from my own constituency that people liked having the local member of parliament at the head of the remembrance parade or opening a fete on a saturday but anytime there was any possibility that the deputy left lieutenant might turn up in order to represent the monarch they'd say well ditch the mp we'd much rather have the crown so um people enjoy and um and respect uh all of that political parties though are are coalitions and um there's always been a you know a streak of kind of left um republican kind of intelligentsia thought but that doesn't reflect the mainstream of labor it doesn't reflect the views i saw from tony blair gordon brown keir starmer labor leaders senior cabinet members as you said though you know conservative party also a coalition there is a streak of um of you know that kind of scepticism on the conservative side.

9:30Ed Balls: I just wonder, though, you know, George, for you and David Cameron, isn't the truth that, you know, you know them well, you went to the same schools, you played in the same cricket teams, and you probably just think you could do a better job than them. Not in my case. Of course, Liz Truss was a Republican, wasn't she? In an earlier incarnation. She was. But it's true, isn't it, that the left sometimes are a bit more suckers for this you know um sometimes annoyingly so yeah but definitely also in britain it's interesting that the left tradition was always sort of parliamentary and under the crown whereas in countries like france there were there were sort of revolutionary communist parties or italy as well it's a good example for spain um in in britain you know the british state has always done an amazing job at sort of absorbing all it's all of its challenges and you know the king puts his arm around the north you know north london human rights lawyers become prime minister which probably you know if not a republican certainly not an arch monarchist but suddenly keir starmer oh now sir keir starmer being led into the state banquet in his white tie goes like, ooh, this is quite nice.

10:50Ed Balls: I'm not sure I do want to bring down the system anymore. Whereas Angela Rayner, Deputy Prime Minister, close to King Charles, from a very different political tradition than Keir Starmer, I bet you Angela Rayner has always been a monarchist. I bet you. Very interesting question, James. You are right in your reflections. Our next question is from Sabrina. Hi, love your podcast. In the most recent episode, you said that labour must either break its fiscal rules, raise its taxes or cut spending, each of which will harm growth. How come no one ever raises, rejoining the single market as a solution?

11:33Leaving the EU is estimated to cost the government$40 billion by the OBR, which would fill a lot of black holes. It would also boost growth, reduce red tape and boost the pound, bringing down the cost of groceries and other living expenses. Many thanks, Sabrina.

11:53Ed Balls: Great question, Sabrina. Although I don't think it's quite fair to say that no one ever raises this issue, because I think on this podcast, George has regularly raised joining the single market and the customs union as a contribution to economic growth. And as you say, to filling that fiscal black hole. So I don't think it's fair to say that nobody suggests it. I've always been more cautious about this because I always thought that for this government, going backwards on the European question would be hugely divisive. Really interesting this week to see in Prime Minister's questions, Ed Davey, his question was all about stopping the boats.

12:38Ed Balls: It was reflecting that sort of tough messaging. This is an Ed Davey who simultaneously is not wanting to talk about rejoining the single market and the customs union at the moment either. So I think Labour and the Liberal Democrats both very cautious about making this argument. I've always believed, Sabrina, that you can get to a closer relationship between Britain and the European Union and you could start to deepen economic ties again. And you might even join something which looks like a customs union. but you have to do that as a new arrangement for the future you can't do it as going back to what we had without causing massive political divides yeah well sabrina i basically agree with you in that if you look at what are the levers the government can pull to relieve the fiscal straitjacket well we discussed this on the podcast the main podcast and we've decided you can't now change the fiscal rules.

13:37Ed has pointed out that the situation has deteriorated in terms of the market, and they might have been able to do that earlier than they can't now. The defeat or the near defeat in the Commons of the welfare bill, essentially having to ditch the savings, means they can't really do public expenditure savings. That's why we spent the podcast talking about tax rises. But what could you do to actually improve the economic performance of the country? you can talk about long-term capital investments infrastructure improvements but they you know they take a long time you could do a bit of deregulation but that also takes a while whereas yes i've doubled down on the eu relationship and i agree with ed you know it's probably the case they can't just rejoin the single market anymore although i would have done it as a sort of first act of a government but they've taken the hit from the sort of brexit end of things with their trade deal with the EU.

14:29I think it was much less of a hit than they probably thought they were going to get. And that deal they did earlier this year mainly covered agricultural goods, actually. So I think there are lots of other important sectors. There's a really interesting report out from the LSE this week, which was highlighted in Chris Giles' column in the FT today, which shows that not only has has Brexit done big damage to goods exports from the UK to the EU, but it's actually held back services exports, which are much more important for the UK. And some sort of Brexity think tanks and the like have said, no, no, no.

15:07You know, if you want to see an example of how successful Brexit has been, look how our services exports have gone up. But the LSE have done this study and they've shown that those bits of services that are most exposed to EU regulation and not being in the EU single market, like banking, have in fact been held back by Brexit. So both services and goods exports have been hid. And I think now the kind of commonly accepted estimate is that the UK economy is four to five percent of GDP smaller than it would otherwise be if we had remained in the EU. That is trillions of pounds smaller. And think of the taxes you would have got off that.

15:46so i i agree with you sabrina not necessarily that you could rejoin the single market although i'd still be open to it myself but you could certainly as ed says sort of double down on what you've just done on agriculture with that trade deal have concluded a lot more trade deals over the next year um and uh ultimately the labor government is going to be judged whether the economy is doing well not by kind of obscure issues of sovereignty um which i think the Brexiteers will find very hard to get going again in our national political debate.

16:18Ed Balls: Great question, Sabrina. We're going to have to take a break, not least, because Duckett caught pant bold knit-ish for 23, 43 for one. George has just missed a wicket, needs to see the replay, and then we'll be back after this break.

16:40Hey everyone, it's Chris Guillebeau here, host of the Side Hustle School podcast. This episode is powered by AT &T Business. In my early days, I did some of my best work in parked cars or coffee shops. When I landed my first big contract, I realized I couldn't bet my future on a public connection that cuts out if someone turns on a blender. As a small business owner, you're already wearing at least 10 hats. You shouldn't have to be your own IT department as well. That's why I rely on AT &T Business. They keep your connectivity reliable so you have one less thing to worry about. Powered by AT &T Business, built to work.

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18:55Ed Balls: Welcome back. Our next question is from Andrew. Hi, George and Ed. Andrew from London here. A big fan of the podcast, I bumped into George on the platform at Paddington Station just a few days ago. As a former parliamentary candidate and general politics nerd, I couldn't resist the chance to say hello and briefly ask him what he thought the prospects were like for the Conservatives. George was, understandably, downbeat. As a follow-up then to that very brief exchange, what do you both think the way forward is for the Conservatives? Is it, and I think the answer is no, trying to be reform-light, or is it rebuilding the 2015 voter coalition and harking back to the one-nation tradition?

19:39Perhaps the more pertinent question is, post-Brexit, post-trust, is that 2015 voter coalition of social liberals and economic conservatives even viable anymore? Keep up all the good work. Thanks. Well, Andrew, it's good to hear from you. And I enjoyed our brief conversation on that sunny day, sunny Sunday in Paddington. And I was picking up my family from the train. So I'm sorry we couldn't spend longer talking, but I did suggest you send it in a voice note and you have. So to answer your question, what I'm going to say is what lots of people say at the moment is just delusional, but I'm going to say it anyway.

20:17People say you can't recreate the socially liberal, economically conservative coalition that propelled Cameron into Downing Street. And I would say also supported broadly Tony Blair in Downing Street as well. And people say the better position to be in these days is to be socially conservative and economically, not liberal in the classic sense, but economically left-wing. So big, spend money, high tax, high spend, big state, and then be very kind of tough on kind of cultural war issues and the like, be socially conservative. I just don't agree with that. And I know there's lots of people telling the conservative body to head into that territory because I think ultimately first of all you will you will fragment the already fragmented conservative coalition and people will start to leave on the sort of center end of it and second you're aping reform and let me be positive you see i think kemi badenock in prime minister's questions in the last few weeks has stopped going on about immigration right which i think every time she does she just helps reform i don't think anyone is going to vote conservative for the next election thinking the conservatives have the answer to immigration because the last time the conservatives were in immigration doubled after brexit under boris johnson and uh i don't think people therefore think oh the tories have got the answer these days what they what they're going to vote tory for is the economy right and we've talked to them in the podcast about the challenges labor has that are coming forward with a credible economic plan that's the gap in the market and the fact that Kemi has been going on the economy in recent Prime Minister's Questions, which I've noticed, I think is a good thing.

22:05And she's doing better in Prime Minister's Questions as a result. She's getting the better of Keir Starmer in quite a lot of those encounters. And I think you can start to win back that coalition. And ultimately, you've also got to win the coalition in the country, which is a very diverse and mixed country. And being socially liberal, I think, attracts quite a large part of that social mix as well. So I would go back to that coalition of being economically conservative and pro-business and pro-enterprise and, you know, tough on the public finances and at the same time as being socially liberal.

22:42Ed Balls: Very interesting. I mean, that is what I would also tell the conservatives they need to do to move towards the centre ground, but also to hold on to the kind of the clarity of that purpose. But, and that's clearly what Rishi Sunak didn't manage to do. He fought a big defensive election campaign last year, but they weren't really clear where they were standing on some of these issues. But the challenge, George, is that the Conservatives look like at the moment they're going to go in the opposite direction. my assumption is that if kemi badenock um is pushed out over the course of the next 12 months it'll be robert jenrick rather than james cleverly who takes over very interesting piece in the new statesman this week by harry lambert excellent uh journalist and spent time with robert jenrick over the last few weeks and he his piece is all about what the jenrick plan is and he says you You know, Farrar thinks Jenrick will end up to the right of him.

23:47Ed Balls: The Cameroons are quietly impressed by him. I think he means you and David and the lunch you had a few weeks ago. Harry Lambert says his metamorphosis is a harbinger of the radical right to come. But if that is where Jenrick wants to take the Conservative Party, it takes him a long way away from that centre-ground vision that you are talking about. um so but not on the economy i mean i think he would say to me perfectly reasonably that immigration is such a bigger issue and by the way george the cameron government fell essentially on immigration in the form of the brexit though um and i'm prepared to you know i've often said on this program how they have a blind spot on immigration so i think maybe just to sort of qualify my answer um and i by the way i agree that harry lambert piece is really interesting You know, maybe it's sort of socially liberal.

24:42And so I just don't think we should get into these sort of cultural issues. I don't think they work for the Conservatives. To have the kind of credible economic plan and maybe be very tough on immigration, certainly border control and small boats and the like. But I would add that I think you're quite right to sort of pick that up as an issue.

24:59Ed Balls: But I would say the thing about Robert Jenrick is that he is shifting to the right. And Harry Lambert says in this piece, not just on the kind of hard-headed view of controlling immigration, but with multiple versions of the wider cultural argument, which he, you know, it becomes quite nativist in his view of English identity. it could be that what you and David are thinking is that if he takes over he can then wrench the party then back into the centre ground he needs to do that to win the leadership but not necessarily to win the country all I would say with Robert Jenrick his biggest danger people are not quite sure what he stands for and it's one thing to kind of cope with him making this radical as Harry says metamorphosis to the right if he then tries and does it a second time back into the centre ground People will say, well, that he has no idea what he stands for.

25:54So is it possible for him to be the figure who delivers the vision you're talking about?

26:02Ed Balls: I'm not sure it is now. Well, first of all, I think successful opposition leaders are quite often hard to pin down. I mean, because they have to maximise their vocation. I think Tony Blair did that pretty successfully. And, you know, I'm not directly comparing Rob Schiner to Tony Blair. sadly for in rob's case but um you know i think you you don't want to be too pigeonholed and uh you as we discussed last week in um in opposition you need to move to the century it's only in government that you can move the center and then um i think the um the other part i mean i would just say about generally what he is demonstrating at the moment is an appetite for power right and he is demonstrating that he has taken to opposition he is not behaving like some ex-government minister sitting there in opposition saying where's the briefing and where's the spad team and where's the red box and oh i don't know what i'm supposed to do today you know he is showing initiative he's showing like his video on fair dodgers on the tube he's showing new how he's adapting to new technology and he's got that get up and go attitude to opposition which comes eventually, which, you know, you were part of in the 1990s, I was part of, but we were not, we hadn't been part of the teams that had been ejected, you know, a generation earlier.

27:19And I think that's, that, you know, so there's a kind of hunger and adaptability, which he's demonstrating, which, you know, I think we've got to see from other conservatives. Opposition is very, very different from government. And you only become the alternative government, you're only the sort of government in waiting just before the general election. Until that point, you've got to be a bit more like the guerrilla army very interesting so um let's do one more

27:45Ed Balls: question and then we'll take a final break and our penultimate question is actually from chloe straw with a um very challenging question for us which i think comes out of the the recent sheffield podcast summit i'm chloe straw the ceo for audio uk we are the industry body for podcasts and audio. You will have seen the recently released Creative Industries Sector Plan, which rightly centred the creative industries as a key growth area, both culturally and economically. However, there was no targeted support in that sector plan for podcasting and audio, and podcasting and audio not recognised formally as a creative industry.

28:23This is in spite of us being an industry that has a 20 to 30 % annual growth rate and an estimated value of billions of pounds. This is also in spite of Audio UK's advocacy and lobbying efforts over the last four to five years to DCMS around a tax relief, a seat on the Creative Industries Council and a global IP fund, which many of the other creative industries already have access to. And this is also in spite of podcasts and audio having a huge impact on local economies across the UK. You only have to look at the recent CrossWires Festival in Sheffield, which brought 20 ,000 people across the weekend to Sheffield for live podcasts and you also have to look at the huge global influence and cultural power that UK podcasts have.

29:06So my question is why? Why has such a key creative industry a not been recognised as such and b not been given any targeted support as part of the creative industries sector plan? We have a joke that we sometimes tell ourselves you have to have a bit of gallows humour. Every politician has, had or will have a podcast. Here we are on a podcast right now with me asking this question. And even DCMS has a podcast. And yet we cannot catch a break when it comes to getting support. We're incredibly entrepreneurial, nimble and growing industry. We've done incredibly well by ourselves already. And I think it's really time for the government to support us.

29:47A little bit of special pleading there from the podcast industry which of course being part of we wholly associate ourselves with don't we we do we do i

29:55Ed Balls: mean i think you'd have to say sometimes people worry about um barriers to entry you know whether it's hard to um establish uh you know a new company in a sector and whether that's something which needs to be addressed for support but i would say it doesn't seem to me there are barriers to entry in uh in setting up podcasts i mean actually you know there's huge numbers of podcasts And whether you're a local community organisation or a school or people from the home, you can make a podcast, you can put it out on a social media platform. That isn't to say there aren't barriers to entry for people breaking into the industry and getting jobs in the top podcasts.

30:33Ed Balls: But this is a technology which is by its nature is very kind of open and democratic and anybody can do it. It's not like trying to establish a TV programme. there's quite a lot of podcasts being set up and and it's a very dynamic market-based system where you stand or fall purely on the basis of whether you're successful and whether listeners want to come and listen to you and you know we stand or fall on whether people come back to us next week but a very kind of kind of powerful case there we're going to be taken off air if you continue with this the train no thought well no i was about to say powerful case there from chloe to the department of cultural media and sports to engage with the podcast and audio industry more and you know i think the chances of there being explicit tax breaks for podcasting are quite low um i'm not sure the treasury is going to go anywhere near that but that doesn't mean you don't think they're going to say like hmm george osborne and ed balls they're they're two deserving people will do a tax break for i'm not advocating it and i'm not sure we're going to get it but i do think that you know podcasting and audio is something you know it's a conversation in the kind of creative industry strategy and on these kind of council meetings of course they should be part of that and i don't know why they aren't and you know i um can't say that i'm an expert on exactly how the creative industry's kind of task force and strategy and council are being organized but um come on lisa nandy let's get the podcasting industry into your department have the conversation and you know if you would like lisa to send us an explanation and question for us challenging us telling us why you are one of your junior ministers um there's not more representation for podcasting and the creative industry strategy then we would love to play and discuss it do you think george yeah well first of all um my main piece of advice is you need to be talking to the treasury to get the tax breaks not dcms so when um we did the kind of cultural sector tax breaks when i was chancellor so there was a theater tax break uh there was a special effects industry tax break there was a tax break for orchestras we introduced you know all of them were designed in the treasury and not with not with dcms and um that's just the uncollaborative nature of the british government so i i think you want to have the conversation with the treasury on the tax front um and um what dcms can do is lobby the treasury and actually i worked with dcms in recent years to make sure that the theater tax break was uh not only um enhanced but then made permanent that enhancement um and uh that's one of uh jeremy hunt's legacies as chancellor that he did exactly that which the industry is grateful for um so um you can use dcms do that i certainly think you know dcms can have an audio strategy and that can um will help i think you could you know potentially make an argument on on audio and podcasting being an important cultural sector that needs some kind of support but to ed's point you know the argument on theaters and films and special effects was essentially that there's a lot of upfront cost in getting a film made or or putting an orchestra together or you know doing getting you know special effects studios built, you know, it's not entirely clear there's a massive upfront cost to podcasting.

34:04I'm sitting here in front of a laptop with a bunch of wires and a microphone and it's all plugged into the wall and it seems, you know, relatively cheap to be using this method to broadcast to the entire nation.

34:17Ed Balls: But a good question, Chloe, and we look forward to getting that ministerial response from DCMS so that we can then carry on the conversation. George, as you know, is currently at Lord's in the ECB box. We need to go to a break. At the last break, I told you, Duckett caught pant bold knit-ish 23. Bad news, Crawley also caught pant bold knit-ish 18. England now 44 for two. Two wickets you've missed while doing our podcast. We'll go for a break, and let's hope there's not a third while we're having this advert.

34:57Hey everyone, it's Chris Guillebeau here, host of the Side Hustle School podcast. This episode is powered by AT &T Business. In my early days, I did some of my best work in parked cars or coffee shops. When I landed my first big contract, I realized I couldn't bet my future on a public connection that cuts out if someone turns on a blender. As a small business owner, you're already wearing at least 10 hats. You shouldn't have to be your own IT department as well. That's why I rely on AT &T Business. They keep your connectivity reliable so you have one less thing to worry about. Powered by AT &T Business, built to work.

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37:11Ed Balls: Welcome back. Our last question is for Matt. Hi Ed and George, Matt here, big fan of the podcast. I work for Josh McAllister, the Labour MP for Whitehaven and Workington, who you recently said some kind words about on the show following his question on delivering big, long-term projects like New Nuclear. Ed, my colleague Hamish and I spotted you at the Winfield House Independence Day reception. We were keen to come over and say hello, tell you how much we enjoy the podcast, but unfortunately lost sight of you in the crowd. In our attempts to track you down, the only person we kept bumping into was Liz Truss, who Hamish nonetheless decided to say hello to.

37:44Ed Balls: It was not well received. So that brings me to my question. What's the best party you've ever been to? Thanks. Well, thank you so much, Matt. I don't know what you think, George. I would say of diplomatic parties in London, the Winfield House annual American Independence Day reception party is right up there. I'm not sure. I've never been. I've never been. You've never been? I've been invited, but I've never been. Oh, you should go. I know, I know. I've been to parties at the American Ambassador's residence which are great I don't know why I've never been to the Independence Day one It's a really good party I'm so sorry that we missed you and Hamish Matt, George what is your most memorable parties?

38:26Apart from my wedding we'll leave out sort of personal things

38:32Ed Balls: I think we should leave them out, by the way my 50th was easily the most celebby party I've ever been to, it was just after I'd been on Strictly it was so fabulous, the Strictly band played the dancers were there loads of people from politics Peter Mandelson in a lift with Claudia Winkleman I mean it was fabulous fabulous right thanks for the invite well we weren't doing a podcast then I think at the time we were trying to kill each other we were pre-rapprochement yeah the best oh gosh I've been to lots of... While you're thinking, Saturday night, 60th birthday party of Craig Revel Horwood. Yvette and I popped in.

39:20Ed Balls: It was in his back garden in Northamptonshire. The dress code was festival wear because they had... You mean popped in in Northamptonshire? We were driving from Norwich to Castleford. It was a hell of a journey. My mum and dad's for lunch on Saturday and then we got to Castleford because Yvette had a festival. she had to go to the next day and it was great and it was you had to wear festival gear and i wore this pink flowery shirt and shorts and this sort of you know kind of like fisherman's hat thing i looked totally festival but um i don't know what it was she she kept wanting to stand quite a few yards away from me i don't know why whether she's trying to avoid the picture she's got a successful political career unlike you and me yeah um okay so my answer i can't tell you much about it but um i think madonna's after party at the oscars oh that was pretty cool is that really is that it i don't feel as though you're kind of rising to the challenge of matt's question i'm gonna do one more while you're thinking we are in um new york traveling to washington Treasury team visit.

40:30Ed Balls: Really bad weather, which meant hurricane-type weather. We couldn't get a plane. It turned out that the train journey, we set off from New York. It took 15 hours to get from New York to Washington. We pulled in on the way to Philadelphia. Such a slow train. We thought it was going to be ages to wait. Tom Scholar became the permanent secretary. At the time, the principal private secretary to the chancellor. And I got off the train. And without us realising, they shut the door and the train left. so the Chancellor Gordon Brown and John Cunliffe the um director were the only two people on the train and me and Tom had got off and were stranded had to get another train they were on this train in the club car for seven hours during which to keep the passengers calm they opened the bar and made it free and it turned out there was an opera singer in this carriage who got quite drunk and then try to engage Gordon Brown and John Cunliffe in operatic duets.

41:24Ed Balls: Gordon said, I don't think that I can sing opera. But John Cunliffe tried, not that successfully. That, Matt, is undoubtedly the drunken opera singing, club class train, seven hour party that I'm really sad not to have been at because it would have been such a sight. Do you know, there were a couple of Downing Street Christmas parties that were brilliant. They went on really late. And this was all, you know, when you're allowed to party in Downing Street. These weren't ones where you sent out people with suitcases. That was a different era. This was not when you'd ban the rest of the country from having a party.

41:59Ed Balls: And then vandalised the children's swings and did things on the carpet which can't be mentioned. Yeah, no, none of that happened. And there was a party at Chequers that the cameras threw, which was great. It was really fun. So I went to some fun political... Was it in the Sarah Vine book? Was Sarah Vine there? I'm sure she was, yeah. So it's probably chronicled in her book. It probably is. How not to be a political wife. I haven't got to that page yet, is my excuse, Sarah. Anyway, that is a great question. Can I just say, can I just say, of all the times you've done the MQs, and of all the times that you've had the opportunity to spill the beans, I think these answers from you on best parties you've been to, I mean, I've never known you more coy.

42:45Ed Balls: I just don't feel as though you gave there. You throw in Madonna's after party. Your answer was about some... I gave loads of detail. Yeah, but you weren't there. I know, but I gave detail. You weren't even there. I know, but... You didn't answer the question, which is what's the best party you attended, not the best party you didn't attend. I misheard. I thought Matt said the best party you've never been to. So I see. Even so, I just don't feel... I think you need to give us one morsel from Madonna after party. Because if not, we all feel cheated. um oh gosh well there was a i had a drink with timothy chalamet and i danced with margot robbie oh margot robbie as in the film star she was in barbie yes but then wolf of wall street yeah oh and once upon a time in hollywood yeah and how was it how was the dance i'm sorry i signed an nda oh my god look i'm really sorry i i think look george is just hoping there's been another wicket which could bail him out of this conversation um but i'm afraid i have to report still 58 for two um that is it for this episode of vmqs i'm gonna have some lunch george is going to go to lunch or at least see the cricket until they go to lunch and have an enjoyable it's gonna be lunch now isn't it by the time we've done this it's definitely gonna be miss the whole morning no you've still you've still got time to see some more wickets for but 58 for two this is not a great start yeah and bummer has not yet taken a wicket so it's all to happen goodness me that is it for emqs this week yes goodbye from the nursery end and uh keep sending your questions in to and voice notes to questions at physicalcurrency.co.uk and do review the show always helps us and to reach more listeners so we love your reviews especially if they're positive we'll be back next week with another episode can i just say on behalf of this podcast we're very sorry for George's coyness in the answer to those questions.

44:41Ed Balls: Normally he reveals, oh, I don't know, he suddenly went all shy. Something clearly happened with Madonna. Margot Robbie. With Margot Robbie. Or as Yvette always said to me on Strictly, in your dreams, and it's where it stayed. See you soon. Bye-bye.

45:05Thanks for listening to Political Currency. This has been a Persephoneca production.

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