In short
Podcast Summary: Post Reports - "Could a Government Shutdown Benefit Trump?"
Episode Overview
- Podcast Title: Post Reports
- Episode Title: Could a Government Shutdown Benefit Trump?
- Hosts: Kolbie Ickowitz
- Guests: Jacob Bogage (White House economic policy correspondent), Dan Merica (co-anchor of The Early Brief newsletter)
- Release Date: September 26, 2023
This episode discusses the ramifications of a potential government shutdown as the funding deadline approaches on October 1, 2023. It examines the political dynamics surrounding the situation, particularly how it may impact President Donald Trump and the Democratic Party.
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Key Themes and Discussions
- Historical Context of Government Shutdowns
- Government shutdowns have become routine in American politics, with many viewing the situation as a choreographed cycle of chaos.
- The last shutdown occurred in March 2023, where Congress passed a continuing resolution to fund the government temporarily.
- Current Political Landscape
- Democratic Strategy: Democrats are under pressure to resist Trump and seek concessions, particularly around healthcare subsidies linked to the Affordable Care Act.
- Republican Dynamics: The Republican Party is divided, with some wanting to provoke a shutdown to test Trump’s authority and spending powers.
- Political Leverage
- Democrats currently have leverage due to an insufficient number of Republican votes in the Senate to bypass a filibuster.
- There are strong incentives for Democrats to negotiate effectively on healthcare provisions to avoid blame if a shutdown occurs.
- The Fallout of a Shutdown
- The discussion emphasizes the potential negative impacts on everyday Americans, including closed government services and delayed processes.
- Historical data suggests that government shutdowns are unpopular with the general public, contributing to low trust in governmental institutions.
- Messaging and Political Consequences
- The episode highlights the importance of messaging during a shutdown. The party that can communicate their stance effectively may come out ahead in public perception.
- Democrats are trying to frame the shutdown debate around healthcare costs to resonate with voters and highlight the stakes involved.
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Key Takeaways
- Mass Firings Threat: The White House plans to implement mass layoffs of non-essential federal workers if the government shuts down, a move that may backfire politically on Republicans.
- Public Sentiment: Government shutdowns are generally disliked by the public, which may influence future elections and voter turnout.
- Democratic Fractures: The episode points out the internal divides within the Democratic Party regarding how to approach the shutdown and their broader strategy leading into the midterms.
- Consequences of Fighting: The discussion critically examines how demands for visible opposition against Trump can lead to unintended consequences, such as weakening legislative power.
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Conclusion The podcast episode provides insightful analysis into the complex interplay of politics surrounding a potential government shutdown, the dynamics between Republicans and Democrats, and the broader implications for Trump and his administration. It emphasizes the need for effective communication and strategic negotiation as the deadline approaches, alongside popular sentiment that could sway election outcomes.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Colby Itkowitz:People in their everyday lives run their lives effectively, or at least attempt to run their lives effectively, and then they look to Washington, and it is all-out chaos, it is blame, and that's why people are looking at our institutions, like, looking down at our institutions. It's because of that.
0:15Jacob Bogage:And there is such a stupid routine to this that you will find people around Washington who plan their vacations around potential shutdowns because they know they're not going to be working. There are bars downtown who plan drink specials around government shutdowns. I mean, this is... It's pretty dark. It's choreographed, and it is so immensely stupid.
0:40Dan Merica:From the newsroom of The Washington Post, this is Post Report's weekly politics roundtable. I'm Colby Ickowitz. It's Friday, September 26th. Today, we're bringing you all things government shutdown. And we're going to be talking about why Democrats in particular are in a really tough spot, whether the government shuts down or not. So I have two great guests with me today. I am thrilled to be joined this week by the Post's White House economic policy correspondent, Jacob Bogage. And back with me, Dan Marica, the co-anchor of our politics newsletter, The Early Brief. Thank you both so much for joining me.
1:17Colby Itkowitz:We're happy to be here. Great to be here.
1:21Dan Merica:So, Dan, when you talk about government shutdowns, it can feel a little bit like Groundhog's Day, right? Because it feels like every couple months we're talking about government shutdowns. But I want to say this one is different. There are reasons why the politics, the strategies, the dynamics are different. So, before we get there, though, remind me, how are we here again?
1:44Colby Itkowitz:Government needs to be funded, obviously, spending copious amounts of money, and it is up to Congress to decide how and when to fund the government. We have been here before, not only in past administrations, but this year as well. March was the last time this happened. At that time, Congress passed what is called a long-term continuing resolution. A continuing resolution is technically not a budget. You know, it's just kind of funding the government at the current levels that the government is funded at. So there are fewer strings attached than actually passing a real budget, which, you know, there's...
2:18Dan Merica:Yeah, this is all very... I covered Congress for a long time, and this is all already complicated.
2:22Colby Itkowitz:I'll make this easier. A continuing resolution is often referred to in Washington as kicking the can down the road.
2:28Dan Merica:Uh-huh.
2:28Colby Itkowitz:That's basically what they did in March. They said, we have this continuing resolution, we'll fund the government by kicking the can down the road until October 1st.
2:36Dan Merica:Yeah, like, we'll deal with this in October.
2:37Colby Itkowitz:Congress has kicked the can down the road so often that it's become the norm. There are plenty of politicians that would like to pass appropriations bills and fund the government through an actual budget. But herein lies the problem. It is very difficult to get Congress to agree on anything, and that is what we're seeing at the heart of this fight right now. So, it takes 60 votes in the Senate to pass a continuing resolution like this.
3:02Dan Merica:And we should note this passed the House already. So we're really just talking about the Senate here.
3:05Colby Itkowitz:We are to some extent. If the Senate takes up something different or does something different, I believe, you can correct me if I'm wrong, the House will have to act.
3:13Jacob Bogage:The House will have to act. But the House is gone, by the way. And Speaker Mike Johnson has sent his members home and said, don't come back until after the deadline.
3:20Colby Itkowitz:But therein lies the leverage that Democrats have. There are not 60 Republicans in the Senate.
3:25Jacob Bogage:Right.
3:26Colby Itkowitz:They have some degree of leverage. And it's one of the rare times in Washington with the party so out of power that Democrats do have leverage in this case, and they intend to use it.
3:36Dan Merica:So, Jacob, to understand what's happening now, I do think we need to understand what was happening six months ago. What was going on politically last time?
3:46Jacob Bogage:So, in March, Donald Trump has just taken power. He's back in the White House for his second term. Doge is running roughshod through the federal government.
3:56Dan Merica:Elon Musk.
3:57Jacob Bogage:Elon Musk.
3:57Dan Merica:Department of Government Efficiency. Yes. Yes.
3:59Jacob Bogage:In the federal government, taking the reins of every major agency, cutting staff, cutting funding, saying you can't spend it on this or you can't spend it on that. And that puts congressional Democrats in a bind. Do we continue to fund the government for another six months, in which Doge is going to disregard the will of Congress? Mm-hmm. Or do we shut the government down, which would empower Doge and President Trump and his budget office to have much broader latitude on what's considered essential and can continue operating when there's no funding and what's non-essential?
4:49Dan Merica:So Democrats are basically deciding in this moment, okay, we can keep the government funded at the levels it's currently funded at. Or if we let the government shut down, we're going to bring Trump actually more power in that instance because he gets to decide what's essential and what's not.
5:05Jacob Bogage:And there is heavy pressure on Democrats. Do not cooperate with the White House. Don't give the White House, don't give an inch. And instead, they gave a lot more than an inch. And Chuck Schumer, the Senate Democratic leader, comes out and says it would be a worse outcome to shut down the government and let Donald Trump and Russell vote. He runs the White House Office of Management and Budget. It would be a worse outcome to shut down the government and give them more discretion than it would be to fund the government and hold them accountable for their decisions.
5:46Dan Merica:Okay, so we have all this history. People are really angry with Chuck Schumer last time because he goes along with voting for the CR, keeping the government open. Dan, how are Democrats looking at it differently this time?
6:03Colby Itkowitz:Democrats want to get concessions out of Republicans on the issue of healthcare. Particularly some Biden-era subsidies that helped keep premiums down, so healthcare premiums down. They want to extend those premiums.
6:19Dan Merica:Related to the Affordable Care Act, right? Related to the Affordable Care Act.
6:21Colby Itkowitz:Basically, without these subsidies, people would see their premiums go up. By some estimates, about 75 % on average, according to a nonpartisan health policy study. Now, that's a ton of money out of someone's pocket. It is politically difficult for Republicans because there's a lot of factors going into this. It's Obamacare, something Republicans have railed against for a long time. It's Joe Biden's administration, something that Republicans are railing against currently. And it's a COVID-era decision, these premiums. So you have kind of the trifecta of things Republicans would rather not do. So by asking for this, it is actually a big ask for Republicans, but it also could be politically difficult for Republicans if these premiums aren't extended.
7:05Colby Itkowitz:And the notifications that your premium's going up come out very soon. So this is something voters will feel right away. And that could be a big issue for Republicans. Senate Majority Leader John Thune has said that he is open to negotiating overextending these premiums. He said that recently on CNN. But he said he is not open to doing it if it is tied to the stopgap budget.
7:28Jacob Bogage:Like I said, this is a program that needs reform, but I think everybody is willing to sit down and talk about how to make that happen in a context where it should be discussed, not as a hostage to keep the government open.
7:42Colby Itkowitz:It's a politically potent message.
7:45Dan Merica:Yeah.
7:46Colby Itkowitz:If Democrats are able to convey that message that Republicans want to shut down the government because they don't want to make your health care premiums lower, that's a pretty potent message. We've seen health care be a hugely motivating factor in elections. The question is, of delivering that message, are Democrats able to coherently and kind of effectively deliver that message?
8:04Dan Merica:So Democrats are trying to make this a fight about health care, as we've discussed. But it's interesting because the White House is also sending some pretty strong signals about how they're going to handle a government shutdown. And so then just this week, we saw Office of Management and Budget, which, as we have discussed, is run by Russell Vogt. They put out this memo that basically says if the government shuts down, they're going to do these massive layoffs across the federal government. I don't really understand that. So, Jacob, how does that work?
8:32Jacob Bogage:In a government shutdown, when the government shuts down, everyone who's considered non-essential to life, safety, or property is furloughed. You get sent home, and you do get back pay when the government reopens. But, like, the people who screen bags at the airport, they're working unpaid for a certain amount of time because they are essential. People who inspect our meat processing plants. They're unpaid, but they're still working because they're essential to, you know, keeping people safe. In this case, what Russ Vogt has said the Trump administration plans to do is we're not just gonna send people home.
9:08Jacob Bogage:If we think you're not essential, we're gonna fire you. And the way that breaks down the agencies that will remain operational are the ones that got money during the one big beautiful bill or from the one big beautiful bill. That's the Defense Department, that's Homeland Security, to an extent that's the FAA, because they want to do some things with air traffic control after the plane crash coming into Washington Reagan National Airport back in January. But other than that, everybody else is kind of sidelined. And if you get sidelined here, the direct threat from the White House is, you won't have a job at the end of this.
9:43Colby Itkowitz:I think it's safe to say if this happens, it's an if the government shuts down, and if these firings happen, there will be massive lawsuits. Right. ...by unions and others to protect these jobs. And I think that will kind of slow up the process of these mass firearms. But it is very clear that they are making this threat. And it is a threat to kind of sow chaos if the government is shut down.
10:05Dan Merica:Yeah, yeah. You know, we've talked about the fact that Democrats are making this about healthcare. But isn't it also that they want to be shown as fighting back?
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10:14Colby Itkowitz:That's what the base is certainly demanding. They want to see fight from leaders in Washington in particular. And with a government shutdown, we've seen this before. So much of like who kind of comes out ahead, I think it's hard to say that when people are maybe losing their jobs. Right. What party comes out ahead in a government shutdown is about messaging? And who owns the message? You've seen in past government shutdowns when the party that has the most forceful message, that can stick to that message when they're talking about the shutdown, is often the one that polls show afterwards, has kind of come out ahead.
10:46Colby Itkowitz:I'm interested in this shutdown in particular that our entire political system right now is about blame.
10:54Dan Merica:Mm-hmm.
10:55Colby Itkowitz:And that hasn't always been the case. I know it feels like, for a long time, politics has been nothing but a blame game. Always blaming your opponent. It's always someone else's fault. It's never, you know, the party in power's fault, or it's never Democrats' fault. That is kind of how our politics is set up right now. What impact does that have on the conversation around a government shutdown? If our, if voters and Americans are so conditioned to a politics that is defined by blame, how does messaging around a government shutdown that is already predisposed to be focused on blame, how does that reach voters?
11:31Colby Itkowitz:How does that change the way they feel about a government shutdown? I think that's like an inherent important question that we don't know the answer to if the government does shut down.
11:39Dan Merica:I have a few more questions about this, so let's pause there. When we come back, So where does all of this leave the shutdown talks? And what does a government shutdown mean for you? We'll be right back.
12:01Dan Merica:So before the break, we were talking about who's gonna get blamed for this shutdown and how it kind of looked like Democrats might because they were the ones making these demands. But if the government shuts down and then the Trump White House does these mass firings, do they become the ones that get blamed? I'm just wondering, like, what is the White House's preference here, Jacob? Like, would they rather the Democrats let the government shut down and they go forward with this plan, or do they want the government to keep being funded?
12:30Jacob Bogage:We're trying to figure that out.
12:32Dan Merica:Yeah.
12:33Jacob Bogage:I wish I had a better answer for you. No, it's a great answer. I mean, there are elements within the Republican Party. I don't want to necessarily say the White House, but there are elements within the Republican Party that say, yes, ratchet up the pressure as much as you can and then offer an off-ramp. That is the classic McConnellism, the Mitch McConnellism, the former Republican leader. His playbook, pressure to the max with an off-ramp that gives us wins and embarrasses you to an extent. And so there's an element of the Republican Party that's looking at that space. there is also an element of the Republican Party, the further right flank, I pointed to the left, the further right flank, that wants to provoke a shutdown, that wants to test a lot of the precedence around how much power the White House gets to have in spending conversations.
13:30Jacob Bogage:Because the answer through 250 years of American history is very little. That spending is the purview of Congress, per the Constitution.
13:40Dan Merica:Yeah.
13:41Jacob Bogage:And the White House is very eager to test that.
13:43Dan Merica:Well, because, I mean, also, if you're a Democrat right now, and the White House has decided that it can spend as it sees fit, and it doesn't actually have to take into account, like, what you've actually passed through an appropriations budget, what incentive is there, really, to pass this?
14:02Colby Itkowitz:You've heard lawmakers, Democratic lawmakers, say that. You know, like, we can pass a funding resolution, but what happens when the president just says, -"No, I don't want to fund that." -"Right." And uses a power that is questionable, but he attempts to use. Yeah. To basically, like, line item, that's not happening. It's a central question in all of this, is that Trump is such a precedent-setting president. He's shown he's willing, he and the Republican Party are willing to take a novel look, I think is a nice way of saying it, at the powers of the presidency, that there are lawmakers on Capitol Hill that feel like, why would we go along with this if he's just gonna disregard whatever we do for his own political ideology or what he wants to get done in the White House?
14:47Jacob Bogage:In terms of potency, I think that is Democrats' best argument. You do? I do. I think in terms of... I think the healthcare argument resonates. In terms of negotiation, potency. I think the best argument is, Mr. President, get out of our kitchen. You don't have the authority to do this. Like, leave the spending decisions to us. We were elected to this role, and you were elected to that role, and we have different jobs. This is not your job. And I think that's the most potent argument, especially if this goes to the courts, which I think it will. I don't know if it's potent with voters.
15:18Dan Merica:Right.
15:18Colby Itkowitz:See, I think actually... I think this is the case with Donald Trump. I mean, it is worth remembering the longest government shutdown in history happened during Donald Trump's first term in office. It was like over Christmas and New Year's. Yeah. I actually think that Donald Trump is a politician who is defined by personal power, defined by, I can do kind of whatever I want. And we have talked about the fact that he runs his White House and his administration much like a business person, because that is who he is. I actually wonder if Democrats come in and say, you don't have this power, if it makes him, you know, dig in a little more, you know, and not want to give an inch.
15:59Colby Itkowitz:You know, I'm not in the room and I'm not in Donald Trump's head, but I have to imagine that that is a factor at play in the thinking of all of these negotiations.
16:09Dan Merica:When we talk about what resonates with voters, for us, talking about these spending fights, we're kind of talking at this high level. But they matter, right? They matter to real people. And so how does a government shutdown impact regular Americans? Like, how will regular Americans feel this?
16:30Jacob Bogage:Your national parks are closed, so I hope you didn't have a park vacation planned during a potential shutdown period. If you want to call a government office because you need help with something around your taxes, there's not gonna be someone there to answer the phone. If you want to call Social Security, they're technically not affected in the same way, but wait times are probably gonna be longer.
16:51Dan Merica:Yeah.
16:52Jacob Bogage:If you need to call the Department of Education about your student loan, if you need to get forms processed.
16:58Colby Itkowitz:It's very tactile, though. Everything that he is mentioning is like the direct way that voters interact with government, mundane as it may be, on a daily basis, right?
17:10Jacob Bogage:Not to mention if your business has the federal government
17:12Dan Merica:as a client, you are not getting paid.
17:15Jacob Bogage:You're not getting paid.
17:17Colby Itkowitz:And I think polling shows that people hate government shutdowns. They hate them. They also cost more than they save. And I think it's... Well, that's wild. Because getting the government... What's the reason?
17:28Jacob Bogage:You divert all of this attention to plan for a shutdown. So all of the things that my agency should be doing, we're not going to do for a little bit because we have to plan to not do them. Then we send everybody home and nothing gets done. So we create a backlog of these tasks. Then we bring everybody back and everyone's, oh, how was your break? And like we all do. Right, right, right. And then you have to dig out through that backlog. And then, by the way, like, in some cases, you may have to, if you had an obligation that you didn't pay out as the government, you might have to pay it with interest.
17:59Jacob Bogage:This does not save money. Government shutdowns are not because, like, we don't have the money and we can't do it. It's a very weird, and I don't think it's controversial to say, stupid way to run a government.
18:11Dan Merica:Yeah.
18:12Colby Itkowitz:And I think if you, like we said, polls show that people hate government shutdowns. But I think if there's anybody in America who wonders why trust in our institutions are at all-time lows, Congress's approval rating is low, the Trump administration is dealing with low approval rate, if you wonder why that is, it's because people look at Washington and think, why can't you just not get this done?
18:38Dan Merica:Well, that's what I mean about it feeling rote sometimes. It does feel like this choreographed dance that we do every couple months, where will they or won't they? Will the government shut down? We're gonna take, we're gonna bring the government right to the brink, and then maybe we'll pull back. And I do think people maybe, or at least voters, kind of forget about it, and it's not the most salient political issue. But I think what is salient is how the parties reacted in the moment, right? Which is what's something that you wrote about this week, Dan, about how Schumer is still feeling the reverberation of what he did back in March.
19:12Jacob Bogage:This was such a smart story. Thank you. And so, what did you find
19:16Dan Merica:is kind of the continued political fallout of Schumer going along with the Republicans?
19:23Colby Itkowitz:So, yeah, Chuck Schumer, Democratic leader in the Senate, went along with Republicans in March. The reaction was fierce. You had people calling for his ouster in the moment. You had people saying that he needed to face a primary challenge when he was up for re-election in 2028. You had people questioning his leadership position in the Senate. We are now six months removed from that. And he is recruiting candidates nationwide to run for Senate in key midterm elections this cycle. And what you're seeing in these races is there are a number of candidates, not an insignificant number of candidates, who are running as anti-Schumer candidates, who are looking to tap into the anger that this base feels at party leadership in Washington by saying, in one case, quote, hell no, I won't vote for Senator Schumer, if I win my race, and he is up for Democratic leader in the next Congress.
20:16Colby Itkowitz:We contacted top Senate candidates in 12 different states, including the nine that are seen as the most competitive. Not a single candidate, including those who are very close to Schumer and are seen as kind of his hand-picked recruits for these races, said that they would vote for him if they win their races, and he is up for Senate Democratic leader next cycle. That is incredibly powerful. I mean, some folks answered and dodged the question. Some said that they wouldn't. But that is where his personal politics come into play here, where he is becoming more of a punching bag on the Senate campaign trail than I think he ever would have thought he would have been in previous cycles.
20:55Dan Merica:I mean, Dan, you're talking about the midterms, which I think for a lot of people still feel pretty far away. I know it's something that's top of mind for Democratic leaders and for the White House. But I'm wondering with this shutdown, is there any way that you could imagine it has more of an immediate political impact?
21:11Colby Itkowitz:I mean, there are two states that really have key votes in 2025, New Jersey and Virginia. This threat of a mass firing is a huge blow to Virginia Republicans. It will hand the governor's mansion to Abigail Spamberger. I mean, like, I will... That's interesting.
21:27Dan Merica:Abigail Spamberger being the Democrat running for governor in Virginia. Yeah.
21:30Colby Itkowitz:The vibes around Virginia Republican campaigns in Virginia were already quite bad because of the impact that DOGE has had, not only in Northern Virginia, but there's a huge number of military installations kind of in the southeast corner of Virginia in, like, Norfolk area.
21:47Dan Merica:Yeah.
21:48Colby Itkowitz:DOGE had a huge impact on Virginia. and Democrats have already been running in the state saying that Republicans are not willing, they're scared is the word, to stand up to Donald Trump. That's been their message already. It's been in paid media, it's been in interviews, it's been all over the place. The threat of mass layoffs, many of whom, folks who probably live in Virginia, commute into D.C. regularly, that just reinforces their messaging already. And it could, I think Jacob is right, it could essentially hand Virginia to Democrats. in the next election, which would be a huge blow to President Trump and other Republicans, because that election is often seen as kind of a preview of what is gonna happen in the midterms.
22:32Colby Itkowitz:That is a very powerful point here. I'm not sure how much Republicans are factoring that in. Yeah. Because if they were thinking about that, I'm not sure their first threat would be, we're gonna lay off tons of people who live in Northern Virginia. But it is a factor here. And I think you are going to start to see Democrats really lean into that as they look around Virginia in particular.
22:51Dan Merica:So when Abigail Spamberger or some other Democrat says, we're going to fight Trump, I still have a hard time wrapping my head around what that looks like. What does it look like? What does that mean?
23:00Jacob Bogage:What does fight look like for Democrats? Democrats don't know what fight looks like. To Cory Booker, who's the Democratic senator from New Jersey, who was on the Senate floor for 25-plus hours, wasn't even filibustering anything, just had time for general speeches and decided to hold the floor for that long. that's what fight meant to him. To Bernie Sanders, it means the fight oligarchy rallies all across the country. Are those accomplishing anything policy-wise? No, directly, they are not. To some, it means leaving Congress altogether and running for other office. Michael Bennett, the senator from Colorado, is running for governor of that state, and he's getting pressure from his left, and so he's tracking that way as well.
23:42Jacob Bogage:There is a lot of noise versus signal that Democrats are picking up on him. Like, what does the base want? And does that help at all politically? And I think, like, there has been, on the left, a backlash against the furthest flank of that party, who said, we're gonna stay home because we don't like the way Joe Biden has handled XYZ issue. The war in Gaza was one of them that was in a pronounced way. And this backlash at the left of, like, stop telling our elected leaders how to behave because moderates hate you. Please stop trying to influence Chuck Schumer and everybody else on the Hill to run further to the left because what you are looking for is performative.
24:30Jacob Bogage:And if you want to impact policy, you need to win elections. And you win elections by holding your base and running to the middle. And I think there's a lot of noise and signal about what is performative and what is a fight that is going to generate a larger constituency in the midterm elections such that we can have an impact on policy. And Democrats have not successfully found that ground yet.
24:58Colby Itkowitz:Yeah, I don't think Democratic voters, I mean, speak to a lot of Democratic voters. I'm not sure they care that there's like a direct impact of the fight. I think they want to see the fight.
25:06Dan Merica:They just want to see it.
25:07Colby Itkowitz:I mean, I think so much of our politics is about vibes. The vibes around Joe Biden were not great.
25:13Dan Merica:Yeah.
25:13Colby Itkowitz:And Donald Trump won in 2024. I think you've seen this in election after election, that so much of our politics is about vibes and the vibes going into a fight and the vibes around a fight. So even if a fight from Democrats is not leading directly to some policy change, I think base voters in particular, and at the newsletter, we ask questions every day and get this feedback loop from a lot of readers, some of whom are Democrats, some aren't. All they want is to see their leaders fighting the Trump administration. Does that fight lead to anything? I'm not sure they really care.
25:48Dan Merica:And they want to see them calling it out, right? Calling out what they say is not normal.
25:53Jacob Bogage:Here's another example of that. I mean, we just saw this happen in the Senate, where Senate Republicans blew up part of the filibuster to move larger blocks of nominees that needed Senate approval.
26:06Dan Merica:Wait, Jacob, I think I missed this. So when did they blow up the filibuster?
26:09Jacob Bogage:Yeah, so over the summer in late August, Donald Trump went off on Republicans for not moving his nominees fast enough, and that is because Democrats were able to successfully slow down the pace of business on the Senate floor as an obstruction tactic.
26:28Dan Merica:As a way to fight.
26:29Jacob Bogage:Yes, as a way to fight. And Republicans took the so-called nuclear option. They blew up part of the filibuster to move nominees in giant blocks instead of voting on some of them one at a time. They can now just do like dozens of them at once. And so this fight that Democrats showed on this very procedural like nuts and bolts of governing thing, Republicans said, fine, you want to fight? Let's fight. And so part of this, you know, from some Democratic voters, a large contingency of Democratic voters saying we want to see the fight. There are – to every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
27:10Jacob Bogage:If you want to see the fight, there will be consequences to that fight. Sometimes it's Cory Booker torturing himself on the Senate floor. And sometimes it is the filibuster is further weakened. It looks different than you want it to look. And by the way, the pace of action on the Senate floor, it was very, very slow because you fought. And now it's going to get very, very fast in a way that is going to benefit Republicans. The consequence of your fight is that Republicans rewrote the rules to make life harder for you.
27:38Dan Merica:It really sounds like you're saying the Democrats are damned if they do, damned if they don't.
27:41Colby Itkowitz:Yeah. Yep. Yep, yep, yep. I'm not sure. I think Democrat voters don't care. Like, they don't care about Senate filibuster rules. Sure. They don't care that the speed of the Senate is now faster. I just think they want to see a fight based on conversations I've had.
28:00Dan Merica:Guys, we're going to leave it there. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.
28:05Jacob Bogage:So much fun. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for having me.
28:07Dan Merica:Jacob Bogage is the White House economic policy correspondent here at The Post. Dan Marica is the co-anchor of the politics newsletter, The Early Brief. Today's episode was produced by Laura Benshoff and Josh Carroll. It was engineered by Sean Carter. It was edited by Ariel Plotnik and Laura Benshoff. Thanks also to editors Rachel Van Doggen and Mike Madden. Our team also includes
28:46Dan Merica:I'm Kolbie Erkowitz. Have a great weekend. Thank you.
From the publisher
Potential government shutdowns seem to happen every few months. But this time, the stakes feel especially high. Democrats are getting pressure from their base to stand up to President Donald Trump; in exchange for voting with Republicans to keep the federal government funded, Democrats hope to extract money for health care premiums. Meanwhile, White House officials are promising mass firings of federal workers if the government shuts down.
Host Colby Itkowitz speaks with the Post’s White House economic policy correspondent Jacob Bogage and Early Brief newsletter writer Dan Merica about the optics and politics heading into next week’s Oct. 1 government funding deadline.
Today’s show was produced by Josh Carroll and Laura Benshoff. It was edited by Ariel Plotnick and Laura Benshoff and mixed by Sean Carter.
You can watch this podcast episode on YouTube here.
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