Taylor and Travis: It's a love — and business — story

0:01So, Emily, you've been following Taylor Swift's career since the beginning. You've been reporting on her officially since 2014. So I'm dying to ask you, what have the last 48 hours been like for you? It has been a true whirlwind. My email inbox was flooded, basically within an hour of the news, with emails from PR people and publicists around the world offering me expertise on the topic from a variety of angles. Breaking news. Were Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey already secretly engaged during August podcast? Body language expert reveals the hidden clues. Next one. Taylor Swift's engagement ring.

0:47Is it patent protected? IP attorney interview available. Oh my God. Expert available. What might a Taylor Swift Travis Kelsey prenup look like? Uh-huh. Yes. Big question. Oddsmakers give Swift Kelsey wedding a 47 % chance of not happening. Oh my gosh. The betting market is already weighed in. The betting market is on fire. and that is just a small selection of the emails I received.

1:19From the newsroom of The Washington Post, this is Post Reports. I'm Elaje Izadi. It's Thursday, August 28th. Pop star Taylor Swift and NFL player Travis Kelsey announced their engagement on Tuesday. Unsurprisingly, this mobilized the Swifty fan base and even got some prominent non-Swifties to weigh in. Well, I wish him a lot of love. I think he's a great player. I think he's a great guy. And I think that she's a terrific person. So I wish them a lot of love. Today, I chat with pop culture reporter Emily Yar about why so many people are still buzzing about this announcement, which was a bit of an unusual move for Taylor.

2:03And Emily explains what this all means for Taylor Swift's music career and business. Plus, I asked The Washington Post's personal finance columnist the question that is on my mind, the prenup. Hi, Emily. Thanks so much for joining me in the studio today. Thank you for having me. Many of us saw the news of this engagement light up our phones Tuesday afternoon. I'm curious what that moment was like for you as someone who has been reporting on Swift for as long as you have? I saw the news on Tuesday at 1.03 p.m. There was a message in the Washington Post lock. It was a link to an Instagram post, and I believe the message just said OMG.

2:50And so I clicked on it, and it brought me to Taylor Swift's Instagram account, and it was a carousel of five photos of her and Travis Kelsey, and he was, you know, kneeling, and she was showing her ring, and the caption was, your English teacher and your gym teacher are getting married. Which, like, what does that mean, by the way? It's, I guess, that they, you know, kind of have this inside joke. I mean, I thought it was among the fandom, but I guess it's also with Taylor and Travis. I'll say their intellectual gulf between them, maybe, which they have joked about. And Taylor has a line in one of her songs that says, you know how to ball, I know Aristotle, pointing out her interest maybe in philosophy and his in sports.

3:36And then also Taylor did use the dynamite emoji at the end of the Instagram caption because their nickname is like TNT. It's like dynamite. So in case anyone was wondering. Yeah, that's clever, I guess. Can you describe how this news landed on the Internet? Like how big of a deal was this? I mean, it was like dynamite. Like it just exploded everywhere. Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Why? Who's the one? Please! Wait, are you serious? Right now? Yeah. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Why am I crying over someone I don't even know? One person described it as every device on them, like, started buzzing at once. And that was someone in the newsroom.

4:24And people's phones started going crazy. The group chats were lighting up. People just started hearing from everyone, especially if you're a Taylor Swift fan. And it just instantly rocketed to like the top Google search. I mean, people just like frantically searching it. Travis's father, Ed Kelsey, who is very chatty, thankfully, he did a few interviews and revealed that it happened about two weeks ago. And it took place at his home in Kansas City. He like had the backyard. He like got people to kind of create that garden scene that you saw in the photos. and Taylor thought they were going out to dinner, but he was like, oh, let's go to the backyard first.

5:02And then he proposed. So I have to admit here, I am not a Swifty, but I know she is a big deal and that this was a huge cultural moment, big pop culture news. So what would you have to say to someone who has seen this and is wondering, why is this a big deal? I think that this is such a big deal to a lot of people. I mean, one of the main things is that Taylor and Travis have been dating for about two years. And, you know, obviously we're in a time where everyone's algorithms are different. Everyone is focused on different things. Like there's a lot of talk about how there's no monoculture anymore.

5:38But kind of two of the last remaining pieces of the monoculture are Taylor Swift and professional football. So the combination of the two of them and their fan bases has just led to this real like explosion of interest over the past two years. And I would say they're probably the most discussed couple in the world. And I think for Taylor Swift fans specifically, she has a worldwide, incredibly dedicated fan base, the Swifties. A lot of people have really followed her journey looking for love since she was a teenage songwriter in Nashville. This is what she wrote songs about. She kind of became famous for writing songs about relationships, about breakups, and making it clear that it was about her real life.

6:19And a lot of people really connected to that. So I think a lot of the intense reaction you're seeing are people who feel like they have been personally invested in her journey from the beginning and are so happy to see her getting married now. And then also, I mean, I always think about the money. There's a lot of money at stake and they are big business. So is that part of the appeal or the interest here? Yeah, I think there's definitely a fascination with that. Taylor Swift, it was reported that she officially became a billionaire over the course of her Eros tour, which was in 2023 and 2024.

6:50It grossed$2 billion, which is the highest grossing tour in history. So she's worth a lot more than Travis, who is on his own worth quite a bit, you know, as a professional football player. You know, I want to talk more in the second half of this conversation about their financial situation and the business considerations here. But I also feel like part of the fascination here is just a longstanding fascination in general with celebrity couples and celebrity power couples, kind of like a parasocial relationship in some cases. Where do you think that fascination and fixation stems from when we're watching celebrity couples?

7:30I think it really comes from the fact that, you know, as we say a lot, pop culture like sort of holds up a mirror to society. and I think as much as some people, you know, want to say that they don't care about celebrity relationships, they're still kind of drawn to them because there's the inherent interest in watching famous people with a lot of money, you know, go through these life stages of getting engaged, getting married. Like, you know, you just kind of want to see how that plays out. But also, I think you can't help but compare it to your own life or maybe what you hope to have one day.

8:01I mean, I have seen a lot of people say that seeing Taylor and Travis gives them hope. Really? Because I can't imagine two people more unlike me or anyone I know because of just how much money they have. Right. They're so just on this other planet. But at the same time, like a common thread I kept seeing was that, you know, Taylor Swift, she was in a long relationship, a 60-year relationship with actor Joe Alwyn. And it ended a few years ago. And then, you know, after that, she met Travis. And so I saw people saying, like, Taylor Swift, she gave me the courage to end a relationship in my 30s and not be scared and know that I could still find someone.

8:38And so I genuinely think, even though you're right, there's no way in so many ways that they are relatable at all. People sort of look at stories like these and they think about their own lives and they really do find inspiration in it. That's so fascinating. Yeah. And the other thing you mentioned that I think is really interesting is the idea that they are kind of one of the last remnants of a monoculture when we're in a moment of so much of pop culture is segmented. Like the shows that people are watching, you know, are so different. We're not all tuning into the same things. We're all listening to the same music.

9:09But as you mentioned, part of it also has to do with the image that Taylor Swift has crafted as someone who talks about her trials and tribulations with love through her music. but she doesn't seem to be someone who really talks about it publicly. Like she's actually pretty private when it comes to her love life. So tell me what we know about this relationship. How did these two people meet? What is their, and I'm told this is a pun, their love story? That's true. Her first like global hit was Love Story off her Fearless album. So now I understand why.

9:51But we definitely know more about this relationship than we ever have for any of her relationships before. And they met two years ago. It's a famous story within the Swifty community and maybe in general. So when Taylor Swift was on the Ayers tour, the tour came to Kansas City. And as Travis has since explained, he really wanted to meet her. And he figured because that was like his workplace, he could just kind of stroll up to the stadium and like go backstage and meet her and quickly found out that was not the case. So on his podcast that he hosts with his brother Jason Kelsey, New Heights, a few days after the show, he was talking about how he went to the Heirs tour and was really upset that he didn't get to meet Taylor because he had made a friendship bracelet for her with his phone number on it.

10:35And friendship bracelets were like a big tradition in the Heirs tour. Okay, so from jump, he was like, I'm trying to hit on this woman and just give her my number. Exactly. Like, you know, you just roll up to someone at a bar, but he's rolling up to her workplace. Here's my number. All right. I got to give it to him. Yeah. You know, right before she performed for 50 ,000 people. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Casually. So anyway, this made a ton of headlines. It was a funny story. And apparently Taylor Swift saw those headlines or people told her. And she has explained that she actually found that very charming, that he was kind of just like, hello, I want to date you.

11:11I'm going to broadcast that to the world. Hello. So she liked that. And then she said she had mutual friends of theirs, I guess, reached out and were like, no, you should actually really give this guy a chance. He's great. And so they connected. And then a couple of months later, she showed up at one of his games and they were dating. So how does this relationship fit into the arc of her music? And does it sort of like undermine or complicate the material that she's put out? Or, you know, would you imagine that she would need to depart in the future on the type of songs and lyrics that she does if she's now like found her Prince Charming?

11:50Like she's in the fairy tale now. Yeah, it really is so interesting because so much of her work as an artist has been songs about relationships. I mean, it's not all that her music is about, but it's a huge part of it. And a big part of it has been singing about breakups, which I think is a pretty major reason why she's kind of cultivated the fan base that she has. because she has this very specific yet universal way of writing and singing about heartbreak that people are really drawn to, especially, you know, when she was a teenage artist in her early 20s, a lot of her fans were around the same age and kind of growing up with her.

12:23And they found that she was basically, I've heard this a lot, that she was like their big sister, you know, like sort of advising them on these kind of topics. And it was like, okay, if Taylor Swift can get through her heartbreak, maybe I can get through my heartbreak. So that has been a big part of what she has written music about. She said, you know, meeting him and having this love story is literally everything she's been singing about since she was a teenager. And now that she's found that, I think there's no way it won't change her art and sort of the way she sees life. So I think that's going to be one of the most fascinating parts going forward of what this will do to her songs.

12:56Okay, I have to imagine, you know, like obviously any celebrity when they make a big announcement like this, there's a level of premeditation and it's calculated. I can only imagine the degree to which that took place here. So what's your take? Like how much of how this came out was calculated, both in the manner that they did it. And yeah, just like, I think there's like a bit of a skeptic or cynic that's like, okay, this isn't really that earnest. Yeah. I mean, it's also worth pointing out that she does have a new album coming out in October called The Life of a Showgirl. and she announced it while on Travis and Jason's podcast a couple weeks ago.

13:35So yeah, the timing, I was kind of surprised because Taylor, for as much as she does write about her relationships and her music, she is very private about the actual details. And I was glad I wasn't the only one thinking this, but I saw other fans saying a lot of them kind of expected that if she, you know, got engaged or married, she would do it very quietly. And then maybe like a year later, she would just casually mention it. Okay, so like we talked a little bit about what this relationship, engagement and now marriage or wedding could do for Taylor Swift's career. What about Travis Kelsey?

14:08He's the other person. There is another person. And it did seem like he emerged from being an athlete to a true pop culture figure. So what will this do for his career? I mean, I think that he, you know, he was already very, very famous with it, you know, in the NFL. He was one of the best players. Everyone said he's, you know, it's a future Hall of Famer. But I think this will, yeah, only serve to make him more internationally famous. He has a very successful podcast. And he's kind of, I would say for the last decade, really had his eye kind of on the entertainment world. He had his own reality show at one point, you know, as he's maybe been getting closer to retirement.

14:50He's been in a TV show. He was in Happy Gilmore 2 recently. He has a ton of sponsorships and brand deals. American Eagle announced that there's a partnership between Travis and them. And so he's been thinking strategically for a long time about his NFL future, which I think that level of thinking about it might be a little bit unusual. But I think this will only, you know, just make him even more of a status symbol. And he was just on the cover of GQ doing this very complicated photo shoot. So I think this will just keep raising his profile more and more. And they do seem to be kind of this like global power couple at this point.

15:32After the break, we talk more about the money in this relationship. And we're even going to ask our resident financial advice expert about prenups. We'll be right back.

15:52When it comes to the big questions, who you ask matters. From breaking news to politics that impact your life to advice you can trust. Get answers you don't have to question with Ask the Post AI. Trained exclusively on post journalism with clear sourcing. And if we don't know the answer, we'll tell you. Ask the Post AI. Find it on WashingtonPost.com or in the app. Emily, we touched a little bit on the economics of all of this, but maybe we can just dive a little deeper into this question because, frankly, this is the one that I'm most fascinated by. Like, just what do mega-wealthy people do when they start to merge their finances?

16:36So what are kind of like the top things on your mind when you think about the business of Taylor? Like, what are her streams of revenue? How is it that she's a billionaire? now. I think the main thing I always think about Taylor, I mean, in addition to being like a pop star, is that she's a CEO, you know, of her company. She's made it very clear for a long time that she is the one in charge of her business. And I think, you know, she became a billionaire. Obviously, the Ares tour, you know, made$2 billion as it went around the world. And we had you on the show and talking about how that generated a lot of money, like for the economy of these places where this tour had landed.

17:12So it's not just her making money, but she's generating money for local economies. Exactly. Every place the tour went, the cities reported a spike in hotels, restaurants, just revenue. So she kind of boosted the economy. She went around the world to the point where cities were begging her to come to town for the tour. So she, you know, makes obviously a ton of money on touring on merch. She just announced that she has retained ownership for master recordings. So she now owns her entire music catalog. Which I feel like is so rare for an artist. Like, it just seems like she's so savvy with these things.

17:48Yeah, it's incredibly rare. And, you know, that became a big shocking point as she went through this very public fight to own her master's. She said that, you know, had always been her dream was to own her life's work. So, yeah, she is, in addition to the music part of it, she's very, very business minded. And she, like, always has been since she was a teenager. How do you think this engagement could impact her business? It'll be really interesting. I mean, that's I think one of the questions that always comes up with celebrity marriages is about the prenup. OK, yes, that is my question. Which is something that we never really know a lot about unless a celebrity gets divorced.

18:25And then it tends to leak out either in court documents or, you know, anonymous sources start like talking to the tabloids. But I think, yeah, it's a natural question when this is one of the richest people in the world marrying someone who is also incredibly wealthy. Like, how do they protect themselves? Like, what do they need to do? Yeah. And like, to be clear, we do not know for sure whether there's a prenuptial agreement here. And if there is, like how long it took to hammer that out, what the details are, right? Oh, no. Yeah. And I'm sure we will never know any of that information. But I was thinking about like other celebrity stories where this has come up.

19:00And one that always sticks out to me is Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey. Just because Jessica Simpson has talked about this publicly that when they got married, Nick Lachey was worth a lot more money than her and they did not sign a prenup. And by the time they got divorced a few years later, her net worth had skyrocketed and his wasn't so much anymore. And so she has called it like her biggest money mistake of not signing a prenup because she ended up having to pay so much in that divorce. And I think that got so much attention because it's so unusual for a celebrity to talk about this. But I think obviously whenever you have that much money, it's going to be a big point.

19:35Yeah. You know, my first thought was, what's the prenup situation here? My second thought was, you know, what would our financial advice columnist say about this situation? Her name's Michelle Singletary. And so we actually asked Michelle this question about prenuptial agreements off this news of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey getting engaged. And so I actually wanted to play some of her responses here. You know, we have these stories, these big stars getting married. There'll be articles and commentary about, you know, prenups and what they bring to the table. But honestly, for regular people, people who don't have that mega rich money or that star power, I would say get into a really good premarital course.

20:25figure out what it takes to merge your money in a way that honors you, honors other people in your family. That's the most important thing. So if I were you, I would be more concerned in getting into a really good premarital program or course that has a strong financial component than whether or not you need a prenup. Okay, Emily, what do you make of Michelle's response here? She's so wise. I just want to listen to her give me money advice. Yeah, all day long. Yeah. But yeah, I think that brings up a really interesting point, too, that, yes, a lot of people like seeing Taylor and Travis are not going to have to worry about the same kind of things.

21:06But it is a good opportunity to talk about those things. And that's another response I think I've seen a lot is, you know, I think even like seeing celebrities take these life steps sometimes do kind of inspire like fans or just people watching to think about their own lives and their own situations. So, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if, you know, this causes people to think about whether they want to get engaged or maybe even like have some of these conversations about finances, sort of like Michelle was saying. So I think, yeah, it's just sort of another way that these celebrity couples can really impact real life people as well.

21:38Yeah. And then when I think about the financial dynamics and this like mega star relationship, it is that she is way more financially successful than he is, even though he it's not like he needs her to to get by. But I'm almost like, is it a risky decision for her to get married because that exposes her financially to more risk than for him? Like, it almost makes me feel like, oh, yeah, this does feel not calculated and very romantic that she's going out on a limb to do this. Yeah, just being Taylor Swift, being the most famous musician in the world and having all of these assets and just, yeah, being a billionaire, just the idea of, right, like merging your life together with another person and that, you know, inevitably means finances.

22:24It seems, yeah, so incredibly complicated and risky. And the other thing I wanted to say, I had forgotten to mention about Travis Kelsey is that this has also impacted his family as well. Like it's not just him. I mean, the Kelsey family was already pretty well known. Jason Kelsey was a very famous NFL player as well. He had a documentary about his career. But since Travis started dating Taylor, the Kelsey family has also really branched out Kylie Kelsey, who's Jason's wife. She has a podcast now that's pretty popular. Travis's mom, Donna. She has starred in a Hallmark movie. She's going to be on the upcoming season of The Traitors.

23:00So, I mean, it's possible this could have happened without Taylor. But I think a main reason is the attention that Taylor has brought to the family and has this kind of trickle-down effect for other members of their family as well. It's like a little media empire. Oh, yeah. I mean, Taylor Swift truly is a media empire. And like her and the Kelsey's combining, I just, yeah, I can't even imagine where it will go next. So, Emily, as we wrap up this conversation, I have to ask you, what do you think is next for Taylor Swift? What's next for Travis Kelsey? And what is next for pop culture? All great questions.

23:30I think it will be I'm very curious to see what her next album will be like comes out October 3rd. And she has said it's about kind of behind the scenes on the Ares tour. She went on this like record shattering tour around the world. Oh, life of a showgirl. OK, she's now I understand. Exactly. So that will be about, you know, the last two years of her life. But looking forward, yeah, I mean, that really is the question of how does Taylor Swift write? What does she write about when she is in this very happy relationship when she's married? And knowing how closely fans dissect her music for every single instance of something that they can relate to her personal life or their own personal lives.

24:10I think that's like the main thing we're all waiting to see. Travis Kelsey, there were a lot of rumors that he was going to retire from the NFL this past year. He is planning to play this season. So there are also a lot of rumors right now about the Super Bowl halftime show, which the performer has not been announced. And she's never done it, right? She's never done it. She was conflicted out of it because of a sponsorship deal issue, but that's gone now. So she could. And there are a lot of questions of if this is Travis's last year in the NFL, the Chiefs, as always, have a pretty good shot of making the Super Bowl.

24:43Is it possible she could be the performer? Could that be how they go out for his final year? And then there's speculation. Oh, like maybe they would both take a break after that, you know, if they get married next year. and I think again I think that there is so much attention on them as a couple I think people just kind of continue to track their every move especially since they're being more public about it I mean this is going to be rival a royal wedding I would think I mean I don't know if they'll be as public about it as they were with the engagement photos but there is going to be non-stop speculation until that wedding happens and then I mean I saw people joking about like it could be like the royal wedding, like, you know, waking up at 4 a.m.