The NBA season just started. Is anyone watching?

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0:30The NBA season tipped off last night. And the league seems to be at a crossroads. Legends like LeBron James, Stephen Curry, and Kevin Durant are slowly inching towards retirement, prompting questions as to who's going to replace them at the top. Then there's the issue of declining viewership in the United States. So I think what the NBA has been trying to do here at this particular moment is say, hey, we know we're incredibly popular. We're everywhere on social media. But how do we make sure as many people as possible can see our games? How do we get back to having those gigantic television numbers that they enjoyed during the Michael Jordan era?

1:11Ben Goliver covers the NBA for The Post. You know, as the season starts this week, we're going to see the NBA's new plan, how they're going to be reaching those people that maybe they were missing in the past, or maybe they've lost here over the last 10 to 20 years.

1:28From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports. I'm Ava Wallace. It is Wednesday, October 22nd, and today, Washington Post sports reporters are taking over the show. We are coming at you the day after the NBA season tipped off. We're previewing the biggest narratives this season, the teams and players to follow, and we're going to dig in on the league's big existential question. If no one's watching, how does the NBA grow?

2:03I think it might be a little bit counterintuitive, but despite the fact that there's still huge cultural interest in the league, viewership is actually declining. Can you break down what is actually happening with those declining numbers? Well, yeah, I mean, I think the NBA was really never more popular on television during the golden era of Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls in the 1990s. What we've typically seen is the best ratings for NBA basketball are driven by superstar players and dynasty teams, right? So everybody remembers Jordan's Bulls in the 1998 finals, his last finals, almost 29 million people tuned in for game one of that series.

2:42That's a massive number. It rivals what NFL games would get these days, right? For game one of the finals this past year, that number was down to about 10 million, and that's a big drop. And when you're looking at different reasons for what could be driving that, I think one thing the NBA has pointed to is just the distribution of its full television games. We know fans are following along NBA players on Instagram, and they're looking at highlights on social media constantly. The NBA is everywhere, and it dominates most of its competitive leagues on social media. But part of the issue for them has been that almost all of their games, the vast majority, are only available on cable television.

3:20And as you know, you know, treads with cord cutters are undeniable. You know, there's been a steep drop here over the last 10 years, especially. And so what the NBA started to think about, even going back before the pandemic, was how could they rewire their distribution networks of their games to reach more fans and especially to reach younger fans who maybe weren't subscribing to cable to watch on TNT or ESPN, which were their main broadcast partners. And so this year, it's kind of an exciting thing for the NBA because what they're doing is they're bringing NBC back into the fold. So they're going to have games on network television as well as the Peacock streaming app.

3:59And then they're also partnering with Amazon, which has been an NFL partner. And they're going to have a whole bunch of games streaming on Amazon as well. So the idea for the NBA is basically they're cutting the court. I mean, they're still going to have games on ESPN, but they're definitely trying to reorient their broadcast strategy towards network television and streaming. And we should say the founder of Amazon is Jeff Bezos, who, of course, also owns The Washington Post. So the NBA is changing the delivery, like you said. No more games on network TV, more games on streaming. But they're also changing the product itself a little bit.

4:32I don't mean the basketball, but what is kind of the edict for the broadcasts this year? Well, one thing about NBA coverage, especially on social media, is that it's kind of a hot take league. That's the reputation it's gotten. There's 82 games. The playoff series are seven games each. I mean, the opening night is in October. The finals don't end until late June, right? That's a lot of time you've got to eat up, right? And so what the NBA has sort of tried to come up with as a new slogan, it wants its broadcasters to educate and celebrate basketball. They just don't think that there's been enough X's and O's commentary on the broadcast, you know, explaining exactly what's happening in the game, trying to lure in more casual fans who maybe are interested in learning more about the sport.

5:18And then also they want to build up the players. You know, I think that there's been an issue here with older stars like LeBron James, Stephen Curry and Kevin Durant. They haven't had any young American stars to pass the torch to or not as many as we would typically expect. Now, there's been some very promising players coming along. You know, Anthony Edwards would probably be at the head of the American list right now. The broadcasters are going to be tasked, I think, with being a little bit more positive. We'll see what viewers think. It's interesting that you mention American stars, because I feel like this is something we as reporters kind of debate all the time.

5:50Like, who's going to be the next American face of the league? Is it Anthony Edwards? When in reality, I mean, the last American born, U.S. born MVP was what? Harden in 2017, 2018? Yeah, it's been a while. Well, right now for this season, the NBA just announced 135 players are international players. That's about a third of the league. It's a record. 71 of those players come from Europe, but they're coming from 43 different countries, right? So what the NBA is saying is, hey, and this is part of the reason why they're partnering with Amazon as well. We want global distribution by streaming of our games because we know that players are coming from more places than they've ever come before.

6:30You know, this is something that the NBA has to kind of work on. And it could be a matter of introducing American audiences to the foreign stars in a more concerted effort than maybe they have in the past. So it's kind of a two-pronged thing. We're over here. We want U.S. interest and U.S. viewership to grow. And then on the other side of the coin, the NBA is very much invested in its global success. I mean, you can't walk into or listen to an NBA press conference without someone saying, you know, the game's a global game. What is the very, very, very abridged version of basketball's success story globally?

7:07Well, basketball has been probably the biggest global sport, you know, in terms of viewership and fan interest and social media other than soccer. And part of the reason why is it's so cheap to play. All you need is a ball and a rim, right? And even if you don't have an official rim, you could find a peach basket or whatever it might be to throw that ball into, right? So So I think that's a big part of the deal. Now, everyone points to the 1992 Dream Team as this big awakening moment. The U.S. sends Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson to the Olympics in Barcelona. They're basically the biggest stars on Earth.

7:41And that's kind of sparked an entire generation globally of players from all these different countries who really got interested or introduced to the sport by that incredible team. Now, that has only continued. I mean, you see these powerhouse programs in Europe, whether it's Serbia, Slovenia, Germany has won some recent international tournaments. France has had a litany of lottery picks come to the NBA. Spain has produced a bunch of NBA players. And so that has just built on itself to the point where now a huge portion of the NBA guaranteed every single year is going to be international players.

8:17And often they're some of the highest draft picks in the league. And so I think that the groundwork that was laid in the 1990s is really paying off today.

8:30And so from the NBA standpoint, if you're the league, you know, this is a real business opportunity, right? And obviously, this has been a league that's been very revenue focused under Commissioner Adam Silver. Talk to me a little bit more about what's going on with the NBA in China, because the league has been so bullish on expanding its global reach. One of the ways they do that is by playing preseason games abroad. So they've played in Abu Dhabi for a few years now, and Canada, of course, where they have the Raptors. This year, I think they went to Melbourne for the first time, but they also returned to China for the first time since 2019.

9:03You briefly summarized to me why that was a big moment heading into this season. Well, it's a big symbolic step. I'm sure you've seen the videos, Ava. When NBA players go to China, they just get mobbed. It's nuts, yeah. It's like they're all Taylor Swift over there. No, I mean, they can barely walk through malls. I mean, because everybody's so excited. Let me see your sneaker. Let me see your jersey. I mean, there's a huge, huge passionate basketball culture in China. And, you know, that's been long established. Unfortunately, in 2019, it was kind of severed because Daryl Morey, who's the general manager at the time of the Houston Rockets, had a tweet essentially expressing support for Hong Kong protesters.

9:43It's a sensitive issue for the Chinese government, which is why this tweet on October 4th by Rockets GM Daryl Morey has created an issue for the team. He posted this, a message that reads, fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong. The Chinese government did not like that, and they essentially canceled the NBA. They said, you're not going to be able to air your games on our national broadcast networks like we have in the past. And those are huge, huge audience drivers for the NBA. And so, you know, the NBA tried to stand firm on some of its principles in terms of free speech. I mean, they, you know, they didn't, you know, force him to take the tweet down.

10:19They didn't suspend him or punish him, Daryl Morey, you know, for that tweet. And it just led to this, you know, kind of tension that existed for quite a while and cost the NBA a lot of money. You know, time has passed, obviously, and the NBA is now back. They did hold preseason games in China. And, you know, the games are back on television. They're reaching all those fans. And so I think from the NBA standpoint, that's obviously a positive development. They want to have a constant presence in China. But one interesting wrinkle is that the most promising Chinese player, you know, basically in more than a decade, Yang Hansen was drafted by the Portland Trailblazers in the first round.

10:56and his summer league games. And these are just practice games in small gyms in Las Vegas were drawing crowds that were basically as big, the crowds in China, I should say, television crowds that were as big as our NBA Christmas games here in the United States were drawing. I mean, he was getting 5 million people to watch his basically practice games as he's getting ready for the NBA. And so that tells you the level of passionate interest in China and why it's such a high priority for the NBA and why they want to get those ties back together in a good place. Hopping from China back over to Europe quickly, the NBA wants to take over EuroLeague.

11:36Is that right? Have you been hearing this? First explain what is EuroLeague and why is it valuable to the NBA? Well, look, European basketball has long established traditions of leagues within each different country, right? And there's some big prominent teams, you know, Real Madrid that are consistently producing NBA caliber players. And so this could be a situation where the NBA, as they're trying to create a new league in Europe, potentially to start as soon as 2027, it could be where they're trying to say, hey, we know these people over here want to invest. And we know there's a lot of interest in Europe.

12:09Let's try to be the intermediary, the broker here and come up with a league that's bigger, has NBA branding, is kind of centralized with big teams from multiple different countries who are all playing each other and, you know, creating a situation where you have NBA Europe, potentially. And it wouldn't be a part of the NBA officially, but there could obviously be some crossover opportunities. It's something that the NBA has wanted to do, to have a European presence for, you know, going on 10, 20, 30 years. And they actually have now put a timetable on it. They're hoping to launch this league by 2027 or 2028.

12:45That seems like a good place to leave it. After the break, we will talk about the play on court and which teams Ben is most excited to watch this year.

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14:07Okay, we did all of the big picture stuff, Ben, but the NBA just tipped off. Let's talk about some on-court stuff. Let's start with the Oklahoma City Thunder, where I think most people are starting this year. Their star player, Shea Gildress Alexander, won the MVP award last year. His team won the title. How do you like OKC's odds for going back to back? Well, the NBA is in the middle of a parody era. Typically, this has been a super team dominated league, right? We think about the dynasties of the Bulls and the Lakers, but the NBA has not had back to back champions since the Golden State Warriors in 2017 and 2018.

14:44And I think the Oklahoma City Thunder are positioned to go back to back better than any team really since then. The main reason why is they're bringing back their entire team. Usually you win the championship, everyone wants to steal your players. This year, they're bringing back everybody. And almost all those players are young. And so therefore, they're going to be getting better. So if they won the championship last year, they should be even better this year. And I think one big hurdle for young teams is just the confidence factor. You get into these really high-pressure moments. You're on the road.

15:13Everybody's screaming at you. The entire season's on the line. A lot of times experienced players will perform better than younger players in those circumstances. But now Oklahoma City has gotten over that mental hump. They've already done it. They know they can do it. And they did it in pretty impressive fashion last year. So they're going to come back, I think, even more confident as well. They have an incredible home court advantage. My head is still ringing from going to those games in Oklahoma City back in June where that crowd was so excited for the city to win its first NBA championship.

15:42So you add all those things up, they are very formidable defending champions. And I think if I had to bet, I would say they're the odds-on favorite to go back-to-back. And if they do, it's going to be a real success story because so much of the NBA's history is about these big, glamorous franchises that I talked about. And Oklahoma City is one of the smallest markets. They've built it all organically. Almost their entire team is players that they drafted, and they've grown up together. And so it's been very fun to watch. and they're also unusual from the sense that they love playing defense. I think one of the biggest critiques of the modern NBA is, oh, it's just like a pickup game.

16:20Everybody wants to go out there and score a whole bunch of points. It's just for fantasy basketball and the daily fantasy gambling and all those kinds of things. It's just kind of a free-flowing sport. And Oklahoma City says, not so fast. We're going to make it hard for you to even dribble the ball up the court against us because we love playing defense so much. We're so disciplined and we work so hard. So I really appreciate the Thunder, and I think they have a great chance to go back-to-back. Is there anyone in the West who could compete with them, knock them out maybe in the Western Conference finals?

16:49I mean, I'm like really depressed about the Eastern Conference and we'll get to that. But in the West, you've got, I mean, the young guys, you've got Cooper Flagg in Dallas, Victor Wembenyama in San Antonio. Go to LA, you've got Luka Doncic. You've got LeBron James when he comes back from injury eventually. He's dealing with a little sciatica right now. Like, obviously, you've got Nikola Jokic in Denver. I mean, there's a lot of talent in the West. I think that the biggest challenge for Oklahoma City in the Western Conference last year was the Denver Nuggets because Nikola Jokic, the Serbian center, is the best player in the world.

17:20And he's been the best player in the world now for about five years. You know, he's the biggest guy on the court almost every single night. He's the best scorer on the court almost every single night. He's the best passer on the court every single night. And he's the smartest player in the NBA at this point. So that is a really tricky package to try to defend and deal with. And Oklahoma City was able to beat Jokic and the Nuggets in seven games in the playoffs last year, but it went all the way down to the wire. And Denver had some health concerns in that series that held them back. And so I think the idea, if you're the Nuggets, is they've changed coaches from last year.

17:53They brought in a few new pieces to their bench just to kind of fortify things. But they have the same basic core that they had last year. And their idea is, hey, let's just take another shot at it. Let's bet on Jokic and his incredible talent as being enough to be able to take down this Oklahoma City Thunder team. To me, that's the class of the Western Conference, Oklahoma City and Denver. Let's not forget Houston, though. Houston, they were a surprise team last year. They kind of popped up out of nowhere. They didn't have a ton of success in the playoffs. They lost in the first round. And so what they said is, hey, we got to double down here.

18:25We got to trade for Kevin Durant. We got to bring in this guy. You know, KD now is 37 years old, if you can believe it. And the guy he's going to be playing next to, Ahmed Thompson, was four years old when KD made his debut in the NBA. And so he got a real age gap, if you want to call that, in terms of their partnership. But Houston has all sorts of young athletes who are going to be able to support Kevin Durant. And then they're going to get Kevin Durant's playoff experience, his big game ability, his shot making in clutch situations. Those are things they were missing last year that they're bringing in with this trade this year.

19:00And they're going to take another shot at it, too. So those are probably the most interesting teams I would say to watch in terms of the Western Conference playoff chase. Okay, now we have to talk about the Eastern Conference. It just bums me out because here on the East Coast, I just want a palatable 7 p.m. game to watch. And everyone is injured. Jason Tatum is injured in Boston. Tyrese Halliburton is injured with the Pacers. Who am I going to be able to watch this season, Ben? Who can I tune into at 7 p.m. Eastern? Well, as you may know, I'm a longtime Western Conference elitist. I've pointed out that the Western Conference has been better than the Eastern Conference for going on 25 years straight.

19:40Here's the twist, though. It's gotten so bad that I don't even want to pound my chest about it anymore. It's like I feel sorry. I feel sympathy for the Eastern Conference because, like you said, the injuries have just ravaged this conference. And the best team in the East going on eight or nine years now was the Boston Celtics. And they will lose Jason Tatum possibly for the entire season as he recovers from an Achilles injury. That creates a huge opportunity, though, for a team like Cleveland, which was the best in the Eastern Conference last year. They play beautiful basketball, passing the ball around at a very high rate, making very quick decisions.

20:14They also play defense as well. As you know, that's important to me. And so I would view them as the favorites. And then you also got to look at the New York Knicks. They had a very strong season. They made it to the Eastern Conference Finals, which is the final four of the NBA, for the first time in basically 25 years. They bring back all of their important players, and they have a new coach, Mike Brown, to replace Tom Thibodeau. And the idea there is their offense was a little predictable last year. People kind of knew what they were doing. They did the same things over and over. So they have a new coach to shake things up, maybe make it a little bit less predictable, a little bit more fun, a little bit more high-powered.

20:49And if that's the case, I think we're coming down to the Cleveland Cavaliers and the New York Knicks in the Eastern Conference. There are some other young teams that are a little frisky, you know, Orlando, Atlanta, Detroit. You don't want to count them out necessarily. But I think the class of the conference this year will be New York and Cleveland.

21:09Ben, thank you so much for joining us. What a pleasure to talk NBA with you. Thanks so much for having me.

21:18Ben Goliver is an NBA writer for The Post. That's it for Post Reports. Thanks for listening. For more coverage on the buzziest sports news of the week, you can subscribe to my newsletter, The Sports Moment. I cover it all there. Women's sports, the NBA, college football. We'll link to The Sports Moment in our show notes. And you can also follow us at Post Sports on Instagram, where you'll find me and my colleagues bringing you our reporting in video form. Today's show was produced by Lucas Trevor. It was mixed by Sean Carter and edited by Ted Muldoon and Reena Flores. Thanks to our NBA editor, Greg Schimmel.

21:54I'm Ava Wallace. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from The Washington Post.